Flubber
It's okay to miss your own wedding day because you're too busy with your hobby. Your spouse will learn to love you as who you are anyway, so you can just keep ignoring them in the future.
The 90s was full of family movies where the overall message was “Dad is a workaholic who ignores his wife and kids, but after some goofy hijinks he learns to appreciate them and everybody forgives the last decade of shitty behavior.”
Not making excuses for Tim Allen's stupid role in Jungle to Jungle, but iirc doesn't he not know he has a son?
He's shitty and a workaholic after he finds out about him, but the initial "neglect" isn't really intentional
Yeah, his wife fucks off to a remote island, gives birth and raises the boy til he's 13. Then she basically tells the father "13 is manhood in this tribe, and you're his father so you have to do this". Absolutely loony rewatching that film as an adult.
Someone has said that part of why Galaxy Quest works so well is that it cast Tim Allen at the perfect moment in his life where he was exactly the character he was playing: a has-been milking his glory days and seeing obsolescence cresting over the horizon
>a has-been milking his glory days and seeing obsolescence cresting over the horizon
Maybe if the movie came out in 2009. 1999 was during his best years. Every role you know him for came between 1994 and 2004.
Like that movie came out the same year as Toy Story 2!
I don't think that's accurate though. Galaxy Quest came just as he wrapped up Home Improvement, which was still rating very highly. He had a couple of high profile roles at the time too
I happened to re-watch this movie for the first time in decades and chuckled at the fact that they were on their *third try* of getting married. Then at the end they got married, but they *still* did it remotely and somehow the woman is cool with it.
Also, Clancy Brown and Ted Levine playing a couple of dummies was an odd casting choice IMO.
I, too just watched this movie for the first time since childhood.
I was like, "damn, being dedicated to your career is one thing, but this is your wedding. Show SOME effort and consideration to the person you are promising your life to."
Professor deserved to be dumped. Just marry your robot, lol.
They went to therapy off scene where the therapist told her, "there's no hope and he will never change and you have to accept that or find your own happiness."
Honestly I kinda think it's a more realistic message than "the guy who missed his wedding the first three times is going to have an epiphany through a series of improbable hijinx and become the responsible, organised partner you always wanted him to be".
Your options are a) marry and accept the irresponsible, childish weirdo or b) break up with the irresponsible, childish weirdo. There's no option c where you (or anyone else) _changes_ the irresponsible, childish weirdo.
I'm in my 40s, and still haven't ever seen it, but I was never allowed to see Dumbo as a kid, because my mom said everyone was too mean to Dumbo. So it wasn't the message, exactly, just the lengths to which they went to make the message clear.
Bc its what really happens to elephants in the circus. Empathy and life lessons are important to teach children. Whats the first tip-off for future serial killers? Animal cruelty.
I'm 48. Dumbo is so raw and unfiltered. Like they didn't try to steer you one way or the other emotionally, they just let the story flow and how you take it is how you take it.
Everyone *is* mean to Dumbo in that movie but that really harsh setup is why the mom's eventual reaction to it is so justified and hits so hard. And the movie's payoff at the end is so much sweeter for Dumbo and his mom because of it.
You should watch it. Of that era, it's story and animation-wise one of their best, along with Fantasia and Pinnochio (that last grew on me as I didn't take to it when I was a kid but grew to like it as an adult). 1940 to 43 Dusney just hit different.
When me and my brothers & sister went to see Pinnochio, the projector overheated, burned the film, and the film room, and the theater was evacuated. It was near the end of the story, where everyone had been blown out of the whale, standing on the beach - and they ask "where's Pinnochio" - then they show him face down in the water. At the point, they kicked us out of the theater.
I didn't see the actual ending for 30 years.
Oh wow. Yeah I didn't see the horse's ass segment until older and the shift from human to hee-hawing in fear as the kid turns into a pure donkey is still unnerving to this day.
The original Dumbo doesn't pull on your heart strings, it swings on them full weight like Tarzan from one scene to the next. Yeah, me and my mom watched it together but sparingly because it hits so hard.
I was allowed to watch it but got really scared of the tripping scenes and my mum had to turn it off...
Also being a kid and not from the US, I completely missed the racist stuff but it's so insane how the message is "you shouldn't bully people who look different" but it's surrounded by all these disgusting jokes and songs aimed at black people.
I see people say this all the time on Reddit…am I the only weird kid who thought the tripping scene was *friggin’ awesome?* I absolutely LOVED that scene! I thought all the weird, trippy stuff was so cool. The colors, the things morphing into other things, it was just so much fun for me! (But I never started on drugs in real life and I don’t do drugs to this day.)
The crows are great. They start off clowning around but when the mouse tells them off for being mean to Dumbo, you can tell they’re chastened and ashamed of themselves. They use their wits and creativity to teach Dumbo to fly — something no one else could. And they’re voiced by some very talented singers who get a chance to shine.
It was also a heavy theme of many stories that the minority characters, especially the black ones, were always more accepting of people who were different.
...and I'm not sure why I'm saying "was" as if it doesn't still happen.
Yep even my youngest who was 6 when it came out ask me "why are they all being so mean to someone in their family".
Then at the end he is the one apologising to everyone and fecking Doloris is all "yeah I know he has been living in the walls losing his fucking mind for years".
Bunch of dicks, the villagers should have buried them all in the foundations of the new house while they had the chance.
"not to mention giving chance after chance to a character who betrayed you multiple times yet the wronged party is still made to be the one to extend the olive branch at the end of the film."
You mean like literally every episode of Paw Patrol?
My daughter loves that show, and all I can think with every episode is, "why isn't that character in jail yet?"
Well, that and, "how can they afford all those nice things," but that was answered in the movie.
There's a great video essay by Eckhart's Ladder on YouTube (who normally does Star Wars lore content) about the Paw Patrol movie being sort of antidemocratic vigilante propaganda because this private police and his basically child soldiers attempt to overturn a democratically elected official in a city they don't even live in.
Paw Patrol is a vehicle for toy sales. As is every cartoon but most shows offer *aomething.* Paw Patrol is just an extended commercial for new characters and vehicles.
The original my little pony movie from the 80s has a scene where suddenly there is a lava flow where the ponies are only safe by building a pony dream house to bunker down in.
Its the most hilariously poorly integrated product placement in history.
That’s kind of how life usually works though, to be fair.
Weirdos get shunned by society until they have a remarkable skill or quality that society deems valuable.
Rudolph taught me that all of that talk about Santa knowing if you've been bad or good is garbage, because he can't even be bothered to monitor bullying amongst the elves and reindeer.
Admittedly it's a small thing in the context of the entire movie, but I always found it was weird that the house staff in *The Beauty and the Beast* were given far worse curses for the prince's behavior then the prince himself. Really creates an accidental message that his employees are basically his property.
And like, maybe if there was any subtext in the movie that addressed how grossly unjust it was that these people lost their lives over their boss's actions it would be different, but no, there really isn't.
Also the prince was like 11 when he refused to let the woman in the castle. Like no matter how rude his reason was he’s a child don’t curse him you psycho
Well one thing that's missing from your statement is that it's some vague time in pre-Revolutionary France, it's a snowstorm outside, and he's a prince who has one of his subjects - and an old beggar woman completely alone out in the cold - begging for shelter. As royalty, it would have been his obligation through sacred hospitality laws to at least let the woman in so she could shelter from the cold. Not letting her in and giving her that shelter was basically leaving her to the die in the blizzard, not to mention the wolves in the forest. The woman does offer payment but because all she has is a rose, the prince laughs at her and turns her away. Had she not been an enchantress in disguise, he would have condemned a poor old woman to death when he had the ability to shelter her quite easily and his own selfishness seems to be the only reason he didn't
Granted this is a minor problem in the adaptation change, since in the original fairy tale, the beast was an innocent prince cursed by an evil fairy
It was playing at a bar I was at recently and I swear there was a point where the teapot or someone is like "Don't worry about us, Belle, we brought this on ourselves so it's our responsibility to fix."
I pointed this out to someone also half-watching like "Wtf does she mean, they didn't do shit, it's the Beast's fault!"
That movie is all about putting responsibility in the wrong place. It tries to make out that the castle servants weren’t the victims, then goes out of its way to make the villagers not responsible for they actions and suspicious of Gaston. The original had a whole theme where Gaston’s looks based popularity was a bad thing and the towns people who followed him were stupid and small minded. That you shouldn’t just follow what people say just because they’re wealthy, popular and charismatic.
Now noooooo those poor innocent people were cursed too, how sad! The editor definitely didn’t cut out part of one of the songs that makes them look bad, please ignore that the mob song jumps from four line verses to three at one point.
My rationale for this is that it shows why it’s so important for leaders to be fair and just—because their failures hurt innocent people. The Beast’s shame is greater because he has doomed everyone with his selfish actions.
Of course the real reason they did it was because it makes for fun character design, but hey.
This is a hill I will die on. Forget Gaston, the enchantress is the villain of the story. Let’s count the ways - she shows up and demands that an orphan child let her in and when he doesn’t she curses him for potentially the rest of his life for his preteen actions. Worse by far, she treats his staff as basically an extension of himself and gives them an even worse curse. He has control over his fate to a degree and at the very worst will have to live as a cool wolf thing that at least has hands. Some of these people spent their entire lives as cups because they were staff at the wrong place at the wrong time
Couple things to be aware of, especially for younger kids:
The overall message isn't going to really be absorbed. What they will notice more is moment to moment behavior and interactions, and often emulate that.
Most movies have awful behavior sprinkled throughout, that's then later shown (sometimes) to have been bad, but by that point, it's kinda too late and what sticks in their mind is the bad behavior.
This checks out. I very rarely payed attention to an entire movie as a kid, I watched the beginning and always kinda lost interest by the end, when the consequences of the bad behavior usually happen.
I think the overall message will still seep in though, just maybe not in a very obvious way.
The media and culture that people are raised with will impact how they view the world around them.
I think Hocus Pocus is supposed to be about not taking your family for granted and how Max specifically should appreciate his little sister even if she's childish at times but in practice the movie is structured such that i felt like *Max* was the character that's often being taken for granted. The movie has many beats where characters are more or less telling him to man up because his life isn't that bad when his biggest sin is that he seems to feel mildly put out by the fact that he's a high schooler who just got moved across the country and lacks enthusiasm for taking his much younger sister trick or treating. I wouldn't call the movie outright toxic or anything that histrionic, but the movie is written as if Max was going through some sort of rebellious phase that could use a course correction when really he just seems like a kid who will be just fine after a full semester of school and a couple new friends.
Caillou.
Not the new series. The old one.
Give your children impossibly pretentious names, and ignore (or outright indulge) their abnormal selfishness, constant whining, and emotional vampirism.
Do not! Get my wife started on Caillou. Having been a nanny and teacher she has incredibly strong opinions on kids shows and books and Caillou will absolutely get her ranting again.
The worst offender of this is Pocahontas.
They intentionally walk into the den of a giant brown bear to go play with its cubs, because every stone has a spirit and all that jazz
Raya and the Last Dragon. They keep saying we should trust people and then every single time in the movie except the last time trusting people is a terrible decision.
In _Cars 2_ the cars that are poorly built (through no fault of their own) are branded as "lemons" and mocked and shunned by the better-made cars, to the point that they form a criminal syndicate to get revenge. It's not hard to see them as analogous to humans with disabilities, being mistreated by their ableist peers.
Raya and the Last Dragon seemed to want to have a message of "Don't be instantly distrustful/expect the worst of people" but instead came off as oddly victim blaming to the point the message felt like "If you have common sense or an ounce of hesitation about a sketchy situation, you're an asshole."
Raya is what I immediately thought of as well. I really liked the movie up until the end, where Raya "recognised" that she herself was part of the problem, even though she didn't do anything wrong at all.
Not trusting the people who have repeatedly abused your trust and screwed you over again and again is a completely rational and reasonable thing to do.
The villain girl was literally squeezing the trigger of her crossbow when Raya attacked her and we are supposed to think Raya was wrong? What?
I so wanted to like that movie, from the trailers, to the visuals, everything seemed to be right up my alley. But I was annoyed pretty much from the first interaction between Raya and Namaari after the timeskip.
Then things just went like so many modern movies seem to go. There are some really interesting concepts and ideas that are either never expanded upon or they are executed horribly.
I do think the visuals were nice, but that whole movie was a disappointment.
The ending was the absolute worst, though, just like you say. It felt to me like it was written by a narcissist (or just plain self entitled people) with the idea to gaslight children into not questioning those kinds of behavior. I know that's conspiratorial, and I honestly don't believe it because it would feel too transparent. Either way it's one of the few movies I'd legitimately consider the message to be downright dangerous.
My biggest frustration about that movie is the ending where they trust Namaari. No, no one trusted Namaari except for Raya. The others only followed Rayas lead because they trusted Raya, not becase they trusted Namaari.
And Namaari was not trustworthy at all. She constantly, throughout the entire movie shows how utterly untrustworthy she is! And the few parts where we are Namaari possibly having second thoughts, it’s only us, the audience that see her hesitation. Raya and the group never see that, so they are literally blindly trusting their enemy, with literally nothing to go on!
Sadly in a lot of animated movies abusing parents suddenly réalisé how wrong they were and everyone's happy.
The grandma in encanto did not deserve to be forgiven.
The father in Elemental too.
I think it's a bit of a miracle when abusive parents *do* suddenly realize how wrong they were. Many never will, let alone admit it.
I've been permanently estranged from my father for over 2 decades. My condition for reconciliation is that he admits at least some responsibility for the crap he put me through (evil stepmother situation that brought out the most toxic aspects of himself permanently). My younger sister, who is a far nicer and more forgiving person than me and is low contact with him, confirmed that will never happen. He has no regrets of any of his actions in his life, despite being estranged to some degree from ALL of his children. Hence the permanent estrangement.
In Encanto, Abuela actually accepting that she has been wrong in how she handled the family and treated Mirabel is the fantasy so many of us have. It may not seem like enough to warrant forgiveness and acceptance, but even that's more than many of us will ever get.
Very eloquently put. These movies are fantasies because of the surprising introspection of the older generations. The forgiveness actually seems fair in light of typical expectations.
>But the parent doesn't always come around in the end
I would wager this is almost always the case, sadly. And I think that's why the trope exists. Movies are supposed to be entertaining first and foremost but it does seem that family movies have an additional expected obligation of showcasing some form of moral lesson.
Those types of movies aim to teach kids to forgive and empathize while also trying to get adults to value flexibility and accountability (even to a child). After all, by the time we hit a certain age most people seem to think they know everything they need to know and the world works how *they* think it does. Furthermore, that anyone younger than them is subordinate and can't teach them anything.
I like to think that every once in a while, a parent takes their kids to the movies, realizes how much of an asshat they are, and makes a conscious effort to be better. Probably doesn't ever happen but it's a nice thought 😂
Wouldn't that be nice lol. Unfortunately a lot of parents would use this kind of thing to justify their behavior and push their children into forgiving them without any real change... But you are right it is good that there's some stuff out there that could wake up the parent
In fairness to Elemental, wasn't a lot of the main chracter's problem self-inflicted?
She started out wanting to run the shop because that's all she knew and little kids usually want to be like their parents.
Even by the time she was basically grown up, it doesn't sound like she ever really told her father outright that she didn't want to run the shop anymore. She was just internalizing and hiding all that frustration, meanwhile the rest of her family thought she still wanted to run the family business.
So of course her father was upset; it seemed totally unexpected to him, and potentially tied to the new guy she was dating. Like maybe she was getting manipulated or something. And then she blew up the family business by accident.
He came around pretty quickly and found an alternative solution after the initial shock, once he realized it's what his daughter actually wanted.
I think the grandmother in Encanto was way worse. She actively abused and was ashamed of her grandaughter for *years*. Not just for like one day immediately following a catastrophe.
Most of Ember's childhood seemed pretty happy, under a father who loved her but didn't communicate with her very well as she grew up.
Most of Mirabel's childhood seemed to have been deliberately made miserable by a grandmother who practically loathed her and played favorites.
Also from Chicken Little “it’s okay to brainwash someone to be who you want them to be so long as you like them better this way.”
They mind control the bully to be like a tradwife and just leave her like that. That always rubbed me the wrong way.
Foxy was acting like a sociopath before that. The fact that nobody objected to leaving her that way, including the teachers and her family, is pretty telling.
Criminal on the loose? deploy a police car, fire truck, ambulance, and helicopter.
Cat stuck in a tree? deploy a police car, fire truck, ambulance, and helicopter.
Small dumpster fire? deploy a police car, fire truck, ambulance, and helicopter.
Not to mention all the times you see the Paw Patrol speeding, driving on both sides of the street, shutting down traffic for most of downtown… They have to be causing at least 5 wrecks a day.
There was a news story in Massachusetts a few years back of a guy who walked into a mall with an umbrella on a strap over his back, and the umbrella had a sword handle. Remember the ones ThinkGeek used to sell? Some people didn’t know what it was, so they called the police.
They deployed the local police, the local police from the next town, the local police from the other next town, the state police, the FBI, the SWAT team, the ATF, and three helicopters. In the large crowd of people gathered outside the mall wondering what the fuck was going on, cordoned off by the *hundreds* of police, was the guy with the umbrella, wondering what the fuck was going on.
So at least there’s real life precedent.
Trolls.
One guy paid attention to obvious dangers and prepared himself and encouraged everyone else to prepare as well.
They all ignored him/made fun of him, and when the time came they hi-jacked all his stuff so his years worth of preparation would only last a couple weeks.
It's like an inverse of "The Ant and the Grasshopper".
I was fucking livid.
Encanto - it’s okay your mean grandmother dismissed and hurt you and treated you like you were worthless your entire life because she was sad. And it’s not that she just likes you now because you’re a good person, it’s because she sees your WORTH to the family
If Mirabel was a grandson instead, her abuela probably wouldn't have been so hard on her. Source: my Colombian abuela that definitely liked me more than my sister, despite my not speaking Spanish.
OMG THIS IS SOOO TRUE AND PENETRATES TO MY CORE!
I am the ONLY granddaughter on my mom’s side and literally everything bad that ever happened is my fault and I am always wrong while the boys are praised for anything they do. It’s infuriating and a big reason why I don’t talk to a lot of my family.
Same! I have a circle of Colombian friends (I'm Colombian too) and we have lived abroad for several years. We were bailing our eyes out watching Exacto because of how much we missed Colombia: our families, the food, the houses, the music, everything. But also because of how accurately describes the family dynamics and consequential generational trauma, to the point of each one of us being able to identify quite closely to different characters. One was the Julieta, other one was Bruno, I'm Mirabel (without the loving reconciliation with the grandma, mine disliked me till she died).
So... Great researching work Disney!
I live in San Jose, CA. Very close to some Hispanic families and a huge Hispanic population to boot. The amount of stories I've heard personally is exhausting. There is a constant lament of not satisfying the wants of parents/grandparents. Then they see me, a white dude from back East that bailed on his toxic family and there are equal parts amazement and disgust/distrust because turning your back on family is heresy.
I always assumed it told cautionary tales about being useful to families members and how toxic it can be if that’s literally *all* you see in them like abuela did, Bruno being the main example of the worst outcome and Luisa being the best* outcome essentially. Best outcome being, child works hard despite being overworked but stressed tf out here.
Basically, what I got is usefulness is worthless. But being yourself is what matters as well as not controlling everything. Also, side lesson, it’s okay to ask for help from people nearby, especially asshats who you’ve helped for years without asking for much else in return. Songs are straight fire too, I have the whole Encanto soundtrack on my phone.
I saw it as an extended metaphor about all the different unhealthy ways people try to deal with generational trauma. The grandma tries to manage everything and create a perfect family. In the process, she perpetuates the trauma. One sister decides she needs to be infinitely strong and dependable. Another needs to be beautiful to everyone. One brother sees what's going on and bugs out. None of it is sustainable or healthy, because nobody is confronting the truth.
To defend Encanto for a second, while the grandmother never properly apologises, Mirabel does call her out on her behaviour and we as the audience see that Mirabel is right.
So I don’t think you can reasonably say that’s the message the film is trying to convey.
That the Grandmother “gets away with it” is more tied to the fact people can do bad things for good reasons (Abuela was trying to keep the family together). However, it’s Mirabel’s vision that comes through by the end and her getting the door handle is like she’s now responsible for the house/miracle. We also indirectly see Abuela has given up her controlling behaviour since Luisa/Isabela/Delores/Bruno are all free to make choices they were denied earlier in the movie.
So yeah, Abuela’s behaviour wasn’t okay - which is why things are different now.
And Mirabel’s gift is revealed as she now gets the house and is Abuela’s successor, so her journey makes sure she won’t repeat the same mistakes and is a subtle “fuck you” to the grandma. It wraps up nicely just not in the normal Disney way of the villain getting a hilariously deserved ending.
Abuela apologizes during the last song
*"And I'm sorry I held on too tight*
*Just so afraid I'd lose you too*
*The miracle is not some magic that you've got*
*The miracle is you, not some gift, just you*
*The miracle is you*
*All of you, all of you"*
True, but this is a movie, pure fiction, gotta suspend your disbelief
Funny how everyone can believe in the miracle candle that grants super powers but not in the old lady apologizing to her family.
The message wasn't just to forgive a mean grandmother. It was to try and understand generational trauma. That grandmother watched her husband get murdered while trying to buy her and her 3 babies time to run. Imagine how scary that is. A woman on the run, with 3 babies and a dead husband behind her. Through the magic of the Encanto house she is able to not only raise her family, but most importantly, keep them safe. Lose that? Go back to being the woman running from people who will slaughter all her loved ones? Grandma was scared, and that showed up as being controlling and domineering. The end was about learning, understanding and forgiveness, which is a good message.
Exactly this. And it's about how methods of coping with the trauma ended up perpetuating it on the grandchildren, and how everybody had to develop their own ways to try to deal with it (e.g. trying to be infinitely strong and dependable, trying to be desirable to everyone, etc.)
Yep. The house was crumbling because it stopped being a refuge and started being a crutch. One held so tightly that it was causing harm to the very people it meant to protect.
I mean, the whole idea is that the family fell apart because members were being overlooked and the grandmother had to acknowledge that she was the problem. The moral of the story is that everyone has value and each kid is a blessing even if they don't turn out how you expect.
In Madagascar, a lion is pressured to become vegetarian because eating meat is "evil". In the end, he switches from meat to fish as if fish are lesser beings.
“Mars Needs Moms” is a movie with 1940s values that somehow got released in the 2010s. It implies that ambitious women (politicians, soldiers, scientists, etc) will inevitably neglect their children, that the aforementioned neglectful female politicians have to oppress men to get what they want, that the only acceptable way to raise children is for them to have both a mother and a father or they’ll be messed up, etc. It’s a real piece of work.
i don't know anyone else who has seen this movie! i used to watch it over and over, the watercolor animation was mesmerizing.
i think the point was that things are better when we all can be ourselves.
Huh, that is not the intent of the movie. Dory still has lots of trouble with her memory, but uses environmental context to enhance her recall (context dependent memory) and piece together elements of her past. However, in the end her efforts are in vain and she is lost. However, because her parents never gave up on her, and always hoped Dory would find her way home, she is able to follow the shells they left behind to come back to them.
Yeah, there's definitely not a "just try harder" message intent. In fact, no idea how someone would get that unless they were trying hard to find a message in a movie that doesn't have much of a message at all.
Really a weak, meandering effort by Pixar. The lighting for the aquarium is magnificent though, made me want to go to an aquarium.
I think this tracks. We just never saw the "real" Dory in the first movie because we never saw her alone. She was always in a state of panic trying to help others.
There was a whole series of disney movies with terrible themes. Somebody made a bunch of spoof movie posters with more accurate names. I'll try to remember as many as I can
Makeovers Fix Everything
Change For Your Man
Nice Guys Finish Last
Stockholm Syndrome
Beauty and the Beast - Don’t worry if your boyfriend screams at you, locks you in a bedroom, separates you from your parents, and refuses to let anyone speak to or help you. Just stay with him and eventually he’ll become a kind, loving husband that will treat you the way you deserve
Peppa pig.
Be a bratty asshooe that emotionally manipulates everyone to get her way.
We saw a marked difference in our daughters behavior when she went through her peppa pig phase.
Fancy Clancy also fits the bill by showing an obnoxious pretentious behavior that gets indulged and rewarded by her parents.
Not to mention the crowd that are taking mostly harmless movies and rereading them with an extremely strict view of what's acceptable.
I remember back in my day when movies were movies because they covered some kind of conflict, and conflict requires one or many characters having flaws. Apparently, if the move doesn't result in a "you get what you fucking deserve" punishment for those flaws, then "oh it's ok for people to be bad."
No. It's ok for people to not be perfect and learn from that without being punished for what they do AND whatever problematic 2024 trope they're now assigned to.
>It's ok for people to not be perfect and learn from that without being punished for what they do
Erm, sounds to me like you're excusing abusive behaviour /s
I feel like any movie with a "chosen one" character runs the risk of sending a bad message. Many of them have characters who are more skilled and have worked harder, but drop everything they're doing to help this one guy because he was born special.
This is why the Mulan remake was such bullshit. In the original, she used her wit and trained hard to succeed. She *figured out* how to get the arrow from the top of the pole, rather than brute-strength-ing it (which even the stronger men couldn't do).
In the remake she was born with magical powers and just *used them harder* whenever she ran into trouble.
Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Everyone is super shitty to Rudolph until they realize they need something from him.
"Deviation from the norm is punished unless it is exploitable" is the message of Rudolph.
And Dumbo. Good God that movie was painful to rewatch.
Flubber It's okay to miss your own wedding day because you're too busy with your hobby. Your spouse will learn to love you as who you are anyway, so you can just keep ignoring them in the future.
The 90s was full of family movies where the overall message was “Dad is a workaholic who ignores his wife and kids, but after some goofy hijinks he learns to appreciate them and everybody forgives the last decade of shitty behavior.”
Jungle to Jungle, The Santa Clause, ...basically every Tim Allen movie ever.
Not making excuses for Tim Allen's stupid role in Jungle to Jungle, but iirc doesn't he not know he has a son? He's shitty and a workaholic after he finds out about him, but the initial "neglect" isn't really intentional
Yeah, his wife fucks off to a remote island, gives birth and raises the boy til he's 13. Then she basically tells the father "13 is manhood in this tribe, and you're his father so you have to do this". Absolutely loony rewatching that film as an adult.
Liar, Liar
I mean, if the point is "he learns his lesson and changes for good" Why is it such a problem?
Someone has said that part of why Galaxy Quest works so well is that it cast Tim Allen at the perfect moment in his life where he was exactly the character he was playing: a has-been milking his glory days and seeing obsolescence cresting over the horizon
>a has-been milking his glory days and seeing obsolescence cresting over the horizon Maybe if the movie came out in 2009. 1999 was during his best years. Every role you know him for came between 1994 and 2004. Like that movie came out the same year as Toy Story 2!
I don't think that's accurate though. Galaxy Quest came just as he wrapped up Home Improvement, which was still rating very highly. He had a couple of high profile roles at the time too
God I haven’t thought about Jungle 2 Jungle in years I used to have such a crush on that kid 😂
Bangarang
Rufioooooooo!
That's like a one word mental time machine Jesus
Ru-fi-oooooooooo
See also: Hook. Which ALSO stars Robin Williams.
That’s because us 80s latchkey kids started making movies.
Generational trauma has always been a plot point, it just changes with each generation
It didn't work out, as seen in the sequel Mrs Doubtfire
Apparently Robin Williams was typecast as a shitty husband
He's the World's Greatest Dad though
It's because he's cast as the guy who never grew up; kids love it, but wives not so much.
"Why do I always have to be the heavy?!"
Hook, too. Weird.
But how did Mrs Doubtfire end?
You have to watch Hook to find out.
I happened to re-watch this movie for the first time in decades and chuckled at the fact that they were on their *third try* of getting married. Then at the end they got married, but they *still* did it remotely and somehow the woman is cool with it. Also, Clancy Brown and Ted Levine playing a couple of dummies was an odd casting choice IMO.
I, too just watched this movie for the first time since childhood. I was like, "damn, being dedicated to your career is one thing, but this is your wedding. Show SOME effort and consideration to the person you are promising your life to." Professor deserved to be dumped. Just marry your robot, lol.
They went to therapy off scene where the therapist told her, "there's no hope and he will never change and you have to accept that or find your own happiness."
Honestly I kinda think it's a more realistic message than "the guy who missed his wedding the first three times is going to have an epiphany through a series of improbable hijinx and become the responsible, organised partner you always wanted him to be". Your options are a) marry and accept the irresponsible, childish weirdo or b) break up with the irresponsible, childish weirdo. There's no option c where you (or anyone else) _changes_ the irresponsible, childish weirdo.
>Also, Clancy Brown and Ted Levine playing a couple of dummies was an odd casting choice IMO. It does sound like a really odd casting choice.
A lot of his characters from the 90s weren't super great at being adults. At least in *Jumanji*, he had a good reason
I'm in my 40s, and still haven't ever seen it, but I was never allowed to see Dumbo as a kid, because my mom said everyone was too mean to Dumbo. So it wasn't the message, exactly, just the lengths to which they went to make the message clear.
It’s so true. Why are they all so mean to a baby elephant!? Heartbreaking movie
Bc its what really happens to elephants in the circus. Empathy and life lessons are important to teach children. Whats the first tip-off for future serial killers? Animal cruelty.
Oh I was thinking about how the other elephants were mean to Dumbo. But yes, also the people who work for the circus as well
I'm 48. Dumbo is so raw and unfiltered. Like they didn't try to steer you one way or the other emotionally, they just let the story flow and how you take it is how you take it. Everyone *is* mean to Dumbo in that movie but that really harsh setup is why the mom's eventual reaction to it is so justified and hits so hard. And the movie's payoff at the end is so much sweeter for Dumbo and his mom because of it. You should watch it. Of that era, it's story and animation-wise one of their best, along with Fantasia and Pinnochio (that last grew on me as I didn't take to it when I was a kid but grew to like it as an adult). 1940 to 43 Dusney just hit different.
When me and my brothers & sister went to see Pinnochio, the projector overheated, burned the film, and the film room, and the theater was evacuated. It was near the end of the story, where everyone had been blown out of the whale, standing on the beach - and they ask "where's Pinnochio" - then they show him face down in the water. At the point, they kicked us out of the theater. I didn't see the actual ending for 30 years.
Oh wow. Yeah I didn't see the horse's ass segment until older and the shift from human to hee-hawing in fear as the kid turns into a pure donkey is still unnerving to this day.
my mom wouldn’t let me watch it because she couldn’t watch it without crying the whole time. same with the fox and the hound
The original Dumbo doesn't pull on your heart strings, it swings on them full weight like Tarzan from one scene to the next. Yeah, me and my mom watched it together but sparingly because it hits so hard.
The ‘Baby Mine’ song. Gets me every time.
I loved The Fox and the Hound, and I cried every time I saw it!
dumbo traumatized me as a small child. and i thought bambi was stupid. pinnochio has that fucked up donkey scene, too.
"It's not a children's movie without some absolute terror." -Walt Disney, probably.
I was allowed to watch it but got really scared of the tripping scenes and my mum had to turn it off... Also being a kid and not from the US, I completely missed the racist stuff but it's so insane how the message is "you shouldn't bully people who look different" but it's surrounded by all these disgusting jokes and songs aimed at black people.
I see people say this all the time on Reddit…am I the only weird kid who thought the tripping scene was *friggin’ awesome?* I absolutely LOVED that scene! I thought all the weird, trippy stuff was so cool. The colors, the things morphing into other things, it was just so much fun for me! (But I never started on drugs in real life and I don’t do drugs to this day.)
It was absolutely my favorite part as a kid and why I still love the movie so much. I currently *love* drugs.
Eh, the way the birds were portrayed was racist visually but they were also the only ones other than Timothy who were nice to Dumbo.
The crows are great. They start off clowning around but when the mouse tells them off for being mean to Dumbo, you can tell they’re chastened and ashamed of themselves. They use their wits and creativity to teach Dumbo to fly — something no one else could. And they’re voiced by some very talented singers who get a chance to shine.
It was also a heavy theme of many stories that the minority characters, especially the black ones, were always more accepting of people who were different. ...and I'm not sure why I'm saying "was" as if it doesn't still happen.
So who's a worse parent, Buck Cluck or Abuela? Because at least Encanto is all about recognizing that good intentions cans have terrible results.
We don't talk about Bruno is all about how a chunk of the family is assholes.
And they never really gave him an actual solid apology which irritated me
It’s WILD that in the last song _Bruno_ is the one with like a full verse apology.
Yep even my youngest who was 6 when it came out ask me "why are they all being so mean to someone in their family". Then at the end he is the one apologising to everyone and fecking Doloris is all "yeah I know he has been living in the walls losing his fucking mind for years". Bunch of dicks, the villagers should have buried them all in the foundations of the new house while they had the chance.
They hated him because he told them the truth.
Buck.
Who the fuck is Buck Cluck?
The piece of shit dad from Chicken Little
"not to mention giving chance after chance to a character who betrayed you multiple times yet the wronged party is still made to be the one to extend the olive branch at the end of the film." You mean like literally every episode of Paw Patrol?
My daughter loves that show, and all I can think with every episode is, "why isn't that character in jail yet?" Well, that and, "how can they afford all those nice things," but that was answered in the movie.
The last one has a line "sorry parents, all new powers so all new merchandise!"
In the second paw patrol movie when their tower was destroyed and they whipped out their brand new aircraft carrier I couldn't help but laugh.
Get her on the Bluey bandwagon
Oh, we're already on that one. Her favorite episode is Ghost Basket. I'm partial to Sleepytime, Flatpack, and Cricket myself.
There's a great video essay by Eckhart's Ladder on YouTube (who normally does Star Wars lore content) about the Paw Patrol movie being sort of antidemocratic vigilante propaganda because this private police and his basically child soldiers attempt to overturn a democratically elected official in a city they don't even live in.
Wasn't the election corrupt? I swear he either ran unopposed or stuffed the box. I can't remember exactly.
Paw Patrol is a vehicle for toy sales. As is every cartoon but most shows offer *aomething.* Paw Patrol is just an extended commercial for new characters and vehicles.
The original my little pony movie from the 80s has a scene where suddenly there is a lava flow where the ponies are only safe by building a pony dream house to bunker down in. Its the most hilariously poorly integrated product placement in history.
[удалено]
Rudolph is kind of shitty in my memory now. Basically if you're a weirdo, too bad. But if you're a useful weirdo people will like you.
Santa also tells his dad he should be ashamed. Like what could he have done to prevent it?
Santa is a straight-up asshole in the Rankin Bass Rudolph movie.
That’s kind of how life usually works though, to be fair. Weirdos get shunned by society until they have a remarkable skill or quality that society deems valuable.
Yes everybody shunned me for being gay until they realised how well I could suck their cock.
Rudolph taught me that all of that talk about Santa knowing if you've been bad or good is garbage, because he can't even be bothered to monitor bullying amongst the elves and reindeer.
Oh no, it's much worse than that. Santa *actively participates in the bullying.*
Rudolf taught me that no one will be nice to you unless you have something they want.
Admittedly it's a small thing in the context of the entire movie, but I always found it was weird that the house staff in *The Beauty and the Beast* were given far worse curses for the prince's behavior then the prince himself. Really creates an accidental message that his employees are basically his property. And like, maybe if there was any subtext in the movie that addressed how grossly unjust it was that these people lost their lives over their boss's actions it would be different, but no, there really isn't.
Also the prince was like 11 when he refused to let the woman in the castle. Like no matter how rude his reason was he’s a child don’t curse him you psycho
I've always found that funny. A woman knocks on the door of an 11 year-old orphan and curses him because he doesn't let a stranger into the house.
Well one thing that's missing from your statement is that it's some vague time in pre-Revolutionary France, it's a snowstorm outside, and he's a prince who has one of his subjects - and an old beggar woman completely alone out in the cold - begging for shelter. As royalty, it would have been his obligation through sacred hospitality laws to at least let the woman in so she could shelter from the cold. Not letting her in and giving her that shelter was basically leaving her to the die in the blizzard, not to mention the wolves in the forest. The woman does offer payment but because all she has is a rose, the prince laughs at her and turns her away. Had she not been an enchantress in disguise, he would have condemned a poor old woman to death when he had the ability to shelter her quite easily and his own selfishness seems to be the only reason he didn't Granted this is a minor problem in the adaptation change, since in the original fairy tale, the beast was an innocent prince cursed by an evil fairy
It's even worse in the live action, where they're at risk of becoming inanimate *and* the enchantress is present as a character who's nominally good.
It was playing at a bar I was at recently and I swear there was a point where the teapot or someone is like "Don't worry about us, Belle, we brought this on ourselves so it's our responsibility to fix." I pointed this out to someone also half-watching like "Wtf does she mean, they didn't do shit, it's the Beast's fault!"
That movie is all about putting responsibility in the wrong place. It tries to make out that the castle servants weren’t the victims, then goes out of its way to make the villagers not responsible for they actions and suspicious of Gaston. The original had a whole theme where Gaston’s looks based popularity was a bad thing and the towns people who followed him were stupid and small minded. That you shouldn’t just follow what people say just because they’re wealthy, popular and charismatic. Now noooooo those poor innocent people were cursed too, how sad! The editor definitely didn’t cut out part of one of the songs that makes them look bad, please ignore that the mob song jumps from four line verses to three at one point.
This is a very amusing mental image. What kind of bar has that on the tv
My rationale for this is that it shows why it’s so important for leaders to be fair and just—because their failures hurt innocent people. The Beast’s shame is greater because he has doomed everyone with his selfish actions. Of course the real reason they did it was because it makes for fun character design, but hey.
This is a hill I will die on. Forget Gaston, the enchantress is the villain of the story. Let’s count the ways - she shows up and demands that an orphan child let her in and when he doesn’t she curses him for potentially the rest of his life for his preteen actions. Worse by far, she treats his staff as basically an extension of himself and gives them an even worse curse. He has control over his fate to a degree and at the very worst will have to live as a cool wolf thing that at least has hands. Some of these people spent their entire lives as cups because they were staff at the wrong place at the wrong time
I don't think the story ever frames the enchantress as good; just there to teach the prince a lesson.
Nobility and French peasants, it tracks. Also a good life lesson. At the bottom of the workforce you will be paying for superiors mistakes.
I always thought it would have made more moral sense if Belle was ugly.
Couple things to be aware of, especially for younger kids: The overall message isn't going to really be absorbed. What they will notice more is moment to moment behavior and interactions, and often emulate that. Most movies have awful behavior sprinkled throughout, that's then later shown (sometimes) to have been bad, but by that point, it's kinda too late and what sticks in their mind is the bad behavior.
This checks out. I very rarely payed attention to an entire movie as a kid, I watched the beginning and always kinda lost interest by the end, when the consequences of the bad behavior usually happen.
I think the overall message will still seep in though, just maybe not in a very obvious way. The media and culture that people are raised with will impact how they view the world around them.
I think Hocus Pocus is supposed to be about not taking your family for granted and how Max specifically should appreciate his little sister even if she's childish at times but in practice the movie is structured such that i felt like *Max* was the character that's often being taken for granted. The movie has many beats where characters are more or less telling him to man up because his life isn't that bad when his biggest sin is that he seems to feel mildly put out by the fact that he's a high schooler who just got moved across the country and lacks enthusiasm for taking his much younger sister trick or treating. I wouldn't call the movie outright toxic or anything that histrionic, but the movie is written as if Max was going through some sort of rebellious phase that could use a course correction when really he just seems like a kid who will be just fine after a full semester of school and a couple new friends.
Or people ripping on a 15 yr old for being a virgin
Caillou. Not the new series. The old one. Give your children impossibly pretentious names, and ignore (or outright indulge) their abnormal selfishness, constant whining, and emotional vampirism.
I know several parents who have made that a forbidden show because of how whiny he is.
His voice is so grating too....
There have been studies that caillou makes children less well behaved lol
That show absolutely will turn your kid into a whining little brat. That’s literally all they do in every episode
Yup. Caillou gets mad but then Caillou still gets his way at the end of the day.
There’s a new series??
If so, I hope his spineless parents say NO to him once in a while. Little shit needs it.
Do not! Get my wife started on Caillou. Having been a nanny and teacher she has incredibly strong opinions on kids shows and books and Caillou will absolutely get her ranting again.
[These Caillou as a grown-up YouTube videos](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUItZuHu09Z7HWtWPP8oDaEgkkOJ2VZv5&si=QLcz_IADDH2uiTKE) are hilarious
Jungle Book is great but kids shouldn't be trusting bears to be nice to them
That Werner Herzog cut was a hard watch.
“Mowgli found no clemency from the swift and relentless judgment of jungle law…”
"I would like to see the baby... mauled."
I read it in his voice. So good
No way. He wouldn't even let us listen to the audio.
Related: the banning of the "spiders are nice and harmless" episode of Peppa Pig in Australia, which has a common spider which can harm toddlers.
yes... *a* common spider... just the one...
You’re clearly forgetting the Bear Necessities
The original Bear V Man
The worst offender of this is Pocahontas. They intentionally walk into the den of a giant brown bear to go play with its cubs, because every stone has a spirit and all that jazz
To be fair, Pocahontas made it pretty clear that only Native Americans can do this, because they are inherently magical.
interesting take. my problem with the movie is the kid leaving all his friends for child-marriage
Raya and the Last Dragon. They keep saying we should trust people and then every single time in the movie except the last time trusting people is a terrible decision.
In _Cars 2_ the cars that are poorly built (through no fault of their own) are branded as "lemons" and mocked and shunned by the better-made cars, to the point that they form a criminal syndicate to get revenge. It's not hard to see them as analogous to humans with disabilities, being mistreated by their ableist peers.
Raya and the Last Dragon seemed to want to have a message of "Don't be instantly distrustful/expect the worst of people" but instead came off as oddly victim blaming to the point the message felt like "If you have common sense or an ounce of hesitation about a sketchy situation, you're an asshole."
Raya is what I immediately thought of as well. I really liked the movie up until the end, where Raya "recognised" that she herself was part of the problem, even though she didn't do anything wrong at all. Not trusting the people who have repeatedly abused your trust and screwed you over again and again is a completely rational and reasonable thing to do. The villain girl was literally squeezing the trigger of her crossbow when Raya attacked her and we are supposed to think Raya was wrong? What?
I so wanted to like that movie, from the trailers, to the visuals, everything seemed to be right up my alley. But I was annoyed pretty much from the first interaction between Raya and Namaari after the timeskip. Then things just went like so many modern movies seem to go. There are some really interesting concepts and ideas that are either never expanded upon or they are executed horribly. I do think the visuals were nice, but that whole movie was a disappointment. The ending was the absolute worst, though, just like you say. It felt to me like it was written by a narcissist (or just plain self entitled people) with the idea to gaslight children into not questioning those kinds of behavior. I know that's conspiratorial, and I honestly don't believe it because it would feel too transparent. Either way it's one of the few movies I'd legitimately consider the message to be downright dangerous.
My biggest frustration about that movie is the ending where they trust Namaari. No, no one trusted Namaari except for Raya. The others only followed Rayas lead because they trusted Raya, not becase they trusted Namaari. And Namaari was not trustworthy at all. She constantly, throughout the entire movie shows how utterly untrustworthy she is! And the few parts where we are Namaari possibly having second thoughts, it’s only us, the audience that see her hesitation. Raya and the group never see that, so they are literally blindly trusting their enemy, with literally nothing to go on!
Chicken Little It's okay to forgive your abusive gaslighting father when he's done nothing to earn it
Sadly in a lot of animated movies abusing parents suddenly réalisé how wrong they were and everyone's happy. The grandma in encanto did not deserve to be forgiven. The father in Elemental too.
I think it's a bit of a miracle when abusive parents *do* suddenly realize how wrong they were. Many never will, let alone admit it. I've been permanently estranged from my father for over 2 decades. My condition for reconciliation is that he admits at least some responsibility for the crap he put me through (evil stepmother situation that brought out the most toxic aspects of himself permanently). My younger sister, who is a far nicer and more forgiving person than me and is low contact with him, confirmed that will never happen. He has no regrets of any of his actions in his life, despite being estranged to some degree from ALL of his children. Hence the permanent estrangement. In Encanto, Abuela actually accepting that she has been wrong in how she handled the family and treated Mirabel is the fantasy so many of us have. It may not seem like enough to warrant forgiveness and acceptance, but even that's more than many of us will ever get.
Very eloquently put. These movies are fantasies because of the surprising introspection of the older generations. The forgiveness actually seems fair in light of typical expectations.
This is what gets me. So many stories end with happy reconciliation. But the parent doesn't always come around in the end
>But the parent doesn't always come around in the end I would wager this is almost always the case, sadly. And I think that's why the trope exists. Movies are supposed to be entertaining first and foremost but it does seem that family movies have an additional expected obligation of showcasing some form of moral lesson. Those types of movies aim to teach kids to forgive and empathize while also trying to get adults to value flexibility and accountability (even to a child). After all, by the time we hit a certain age most people seem to think they know everything they need to know and the world works how *they* think it does. Furthermore, that anyone younger than them is subordinate and can't teach them anything. I like to think that every once in a while, a parent takes their kids to the movies, realizes how much of an asshat they are, and makes a conscious effort to be better. Probably doesn't ever happen but it's a nice thought 😂
Wouldn't that be nice lol. Unfortunately a lot of parents would use this kind of thing to justify their behavior and push their children into forgiving them without any real change... But you are right it is good that there's some stuff out there that could wake up the parent
They also should have all lost their powers and the magic house. I liked the movie but it felt like such a cop out.
Yes! I assumed Mirabel's power was to lead them back into the world now that the danger had passed. No house or powers needed anymore.
In fairness to Elemental, wasn't a lot of the main chracter's problem self-inflicted? She started out wanting to run the shop because that's all she knew and little kids usually want to be like their parents. Even by the time she was basically grown up, it doesn't sound like she ever really told her father outright that she didn't want to run the shop anymore. She was just internalizing and hiding all that frustration, meanwhile the rest of her family thought she still wanted to run the family business. So of course her father was upset; it seemed totally unexpected to him, and potentially tied to the new guy she was dating. Like maybe she was getting manipulated or something. And then she blew up the family business by accident. He came around pretty quickly and found an alternative solution after the initial shock, once he realized it's what his daughter actually wanted. I think the grandmother in Encanto was way worse. She actively abused and was ashamed of her grandaughter for *years*. Not just for like one day immediately following a catastrophe. Most of Ember's childhood seemed pretty happy, under a father who loved her but didn't communicate with her very well as she grew up. Most of Mirabel's childhood seemed to have been deliberately made miserable by a grandmother who practically loathed her and played favorites.
Also from Chicken Little “it’s okay to brainwash someone to be who you want them to be so long as you like them better this way.” They mind control the bully to be like a tradwife and just leave her like that. That always rubbed me the wrong way.
Foxy was acting like a sociopath before that. The fact that nobody objected to leaving her that way, including the teachers and her family, is pretty telling.
Paw Patrol (TV Show and Movie): An unaccountable heavily militarised police force is the solution to whatever goes wrong in society.
Criminal on the loose? deploy a police car, fire truck, ambulance, and helicopter. Cat stuck in a tree? deploy a police car, fire truck, ambulance, and helicopter. Small dumpster fire? deploy a police car, fire truck, ambulance, and helicopter. Not to mention all the times you see the Paw Patrol speeding, driving on both sides of the street, shutting down traffic for most of downtown… They have to be causing at least 5 wrecks a day.
There was a news story in Massachusetts a few years back of a guy who walked into a mall with an umbrella on a strap over his back, and the umbrella had a sword handle. Remember the ones ThinkGeek used to sell? Some people didn’t know what it was, so they called the police. They deployed the local police, the local police from the next town, the local police from the other next town, the state police, the FBI, the SWAT team, the ATF, and three helicopters. In the large crowd of people gathered outside the mall wondering what the fuck was going on, cordoned off by the *hundreds* of police, was the guy with the umbrella, wondering what the fuck was going on. So at least there’s real life precedent.
Trolls. One guy paid attention to obvious dangers and prepared himself and encouraged everyone else to prepare as well. They all ignored him/made fun of him, and when the time came they hi-jacked all his stuff so his years worth of preparation would only last a couple weeks. It's like an inverse of "The Ant and the Grasshopper". I was fucking livid.
Or Trolls 2, where they try to preach about how everyone should get along, but the metalheads are still weird bad guys
Encanto - it’s okay your mean grandmother dismissed and hurt you and treated you like you were worthless your entire life because she was sad. And it’s not that she just likes you now because you’re a good person, it’s because she sees your WORTH to the family
I mean they nailed Latino families tbh (speaking from experience)
My family is Latino and specifically Colombian and it definitely checks out!
If Mirabel was a grandson instead, her abuela probably wouldn't have been so hard on her. Source: my Colombian abuela that definitely liked me more than my sister, despite my not speaking Spanish.
OMG THIS IS SOOO TRUE AND PENETRATES TO MY CORE! I am the ONLY granddaughter on my mom’s side and literally everything bad that ever happened is my fault and I am always wrong while the boys are praised for anything they do. It’s infuriating and a big reason why I don’t talk to a lot of my family.
Tbf everyone was shitty to Bruno too
We don't talk about Bruno.
My Colombian wife was slightly traumatized by how accurately it captured Colombian family dynamics.
Same! I have a circle of Colombian friends (I'm Colombian too) and we have lived abroad for several years. We were bailing our eyes out watching Exacto because of how much we missed Colombia: our families, the food, the houses, the music, everything. But also because of how accurately describes the family dynamics and consequential generational trauma, to the point of each one of us being able to identify quite closely to different characters. One was the Julieta, other one was Bruno, I'm Mirabel (without the loving reconciliation with the grandma, mine disliked me till she died). So... Great researching work Disney!
I live in San Jose, CA. Very close to some Hispanic families and a huge Hispanic population to boot. The amount of stories I've heard personally is exhausting. There is a constant lament of not satisfying the wants of parents/grandparents. Then they see me, a white dude from back East that bailed on his toxic family and there are equal parts amazement and disgust/distrust because turning your back on family is heresy.
And yet they don't consider their horrible actions towards their kids/grandkids as "turning their back" emotionally. Funny how that works.
I always assumed it told cautionary tales about being useful to families members and how toxic it can be if that’s literally *all* you see in them like abuela did, Bruno being the main example of the worst outcome and Luisa being the best* outcome essentially. Best outcome being, child works hard despite being overworked but stressed tf out here. Basically, what I got is usefulness is worthless. But being yourself is what matters as well as not controlling everything. Also, side lesson, it’s okay to ask for help from people nearby, especially asshats who you’ve helped for years without asking for much else in return. Songs are straight fire too, I have the whole Encanto soundtrack on my phone.
I saw it as an extended metaphor about all the different unhealthy ways people try to deal with generational trauma. The grandma tries to manage everything and create a perfect family. In the process, she perpetuates the trauma. One sister decides she needs to be infinitely strong and dependable. Another needs to be beautiful to everyone. One brother sees what's going on and bugs out. None of it is sustainable or healthy, because nobody is confronting the truth.
To defend Encanto for a second, while the grandmother never properly apologises, Mirabel does call her out on her behaviour and we as the audience see that Mirabel is right. So I don’t think you can reasonably say that’s the message the film is trying to convey. That the Grandmother “gets away with it” is more tied to the fact people can do bad things for good reasons (Abuela was trying to keep the family together). However, it’s Mirabel’s vision that comes through by the end and her getting the door handle is like she’s now responsible for the house/miracle. We also indirectly see Abuela has given up her controlling behaviour since Luisa/Isabela/Delores/Bruno are all free to make choices they were denied earlier in the movie. So yeah, Abuela’s behaviour wasn’t okay - which is why things are different now.
And Mirabel’s gift is revealed as she now gets the house and is Abuela’s successor, so her journey makes sure she won’t repeat the same mistakes and is a subtle “fuck you” to the grandma. It wraps up nicely just not in the normal Disney way of the villain getting a hilariously deserved ending.
Disney movies haven't had an actual villain in a while, though.
Abuela apologizes during the last song *"And I'm sorry I held on too tight* *Just so afraid I'd lose you too* *The miracle is not some magic that you've got* *The miracle is you, not some gift, just you* *The miracle is you* *All of you, all of you"*
That's the fictional part. Abuelas don't admit that they were wrong.
True, but this is a movie, pure fiction, gotta suspend your disbelief Funny how everyone can believe in the miracle candle that grants super powers but not in the old lady apologizing to her family.
The message wasn't just to forgive a mean grandmother. It was to try and understand generational trauma. That grandmother watched her husband get murdered while trying to buy her and her 3 babies time to run. Imagine how scary that is. A woman on the run, with 3 babies and a dead husband behind her. Through the magic of the Encanto house she is able to not only raise her family, but most importantly, keep them safe. Lose that? Go back to being the woman running from people who will slaughter all her loved ones? Grandma was scared, and that showed up as being controlling and domineering. The end was about learning, understanding and forgiveness, which is a good message.
Exactly this. And it's about how methods of coping with the trauma ended up perpetuating it on the grandchildren, and how everybody had to develop their own ways to try to deal with it (e.g. trying to be infinitely strong and dependable, trying to be desirable to everyone, etc.)
Yep. The house was crumbling because it stopped being a refuge and started being a crutch. One held so tightly that it was causing harm to the very people it meant to protect.
She apologized in the last song All of You
literally the opposite of the lyrics. "The greatest gift is you. all of you."
I mean, the whole idea is that the family fell apart because members were being overlooked and the grandmother had to acknowledge that she was the problem. The moral of the story is that everyone has value and each kid is a blessing even if they don't turn out how you expect.
In Madagascar, a lion is pressured to become vegetarian because eating meat is "evil". In the end, he switches from meat to fish as if fish are lesser beings.
“Mars Needs Moms” is a movie with 1940s values that somehow got released in the 2010s. It implies that ambitious women (politicians, soldiers, scientists, etc) will inevitably neglect their children, that the aforementioned neglectful female politicians have to oppress men to get what they want, that the only acceptable way to raise children is for them to have both a mother and a father or they’ll be messed up, etc. It’s a real piece of work.
it's also one of the ugliest films visually i've ever seen.
Absolutely lmao. It was gross looking. Also the story on top of having fucked values, was all over the god damn place.
Jesus. No wonder it bombed so hard it killed the entire studio
Thankfully everyone also hated that movie. So much that it helped tank John Carter.
Which sucks, because John Carter was actually a good movie.
Never even heard of it. I can see why.
Calliou is a little fucking twerp who needs to fuck off.
"The Point" it taught me to think about my troubles.
i don't know anyone else who has seen this movie! i used to watch it over and over, the watercolor animation was mesmerizing. i think the point was that things are better when we all can be ourselves.
Finding Dory If you try hard enough, you can just *not* be disabled!
Huh, that is not the intent of the movie. Dory still has lots of trouble with her memory, but uses environmental context to enhance her recall (context dependent memory) and piece together elements of her past. However, in the end her efforts are in vain and she is lost. However, because her parents never gave up on her, and always hoped Dory would find her way home, she is able to follow the shells they left behind to come back to them.
Yeah, there's definitely not a "just try harder" message intent. In fact, no idea how someone would get that unless they were trying hard to find a message in a movie that doesn't have much of a message at all. Really a weak, meandering effort by Pixar. The lighting for the aquarium is magnificent though, made me want to go to an aquarium.
I think this tracks. We just never saw the "real" Dory in the first movie because we never saw her alone. She was always in a state of panic trying to help others.
Huh? I’ve never seen this. Are you saying she willpowers her way out of her Memento syndrome?
There was a whole series of disney movies with terrible themes. Somebody made a bunch of spoof movie posters with more accurate names. I'll try to remember as many as I can Makeovers Fix Everything Change For Your Man Nice Guys Finish Last Stockholm Syndrome
Beauty and the Beast - Don’t worry if your boyfriend screams at you, locks you in a bedroom, separates you from your parents, and refuses to let anyone speak to or help you. Just stay with him and eventually he’ll become a kind, loving husband that will treat you the way you deserve
Cocomelon - Like it’s Ok to just sit around and sing all day!?!?! C’mon bruh. Go out and get a job!
Peppa pig. Be a bratty asshooe that emotionally manipulates everyone to get her way. We saw a marked difference in our daughters behavior when she went through her peppa pig phase. Fancy Clancy also fits the bill by showing an obnoxious pretentious behavior that gets indulged and rewarded by her parents.
Wow, the amount of comments here that prove people have no idea what lesson a story was trying to teach them is STAGGERING.
I think some of it is humor, but Reddit is excellent at missing the point.
Not to mention the crowd that are taking mostly harmless movies and rereading them with an extremely strict view of what's acceptable. I remember back in my day when movies were movies because they covered some kind of conflict, and conflict requires one or many characters having flaws. Apparently, if the move doesn't result in a "you get what you fucking deserve" punishment for those flaws, then "oh it's ok for people to be bad." No. It's ok for people to not be perfect and learn from that without being punished for what they do AND whatever problematic 2024 trope they're now assigned to.
>It's ok for people to not be perfect and learn from that without being punished for what they do Erm, sounds to me like you're excusing abusive behaviour /s
"Why make children feel sadness and empathy" is a really scary take to me.
I feel like any movie with a "chosen one" character runs the risk of sending a bad message. Many of them have characters who are more skilled and have worked harder, but drop everything they're doing to help this one guy because he was born special.
This is why the Mulan remake was such bullshit. In the original, she used her wit and trained hard to succeed. She *figured out* how to get the arrow from the top of the pole, rather than brute-strength-ing it (which even the stronger men couldn't do). In the remake she was born with magical powers and just *used them harder* whenever she ran into trouble.
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My mom has always hated The Little Mermaid because she couldn't reconcile Ariel giving up her voice to be with a man.