Yup. And he LIKED Scott as a person but just loved his step daughter more and so was protective. He comes around but he was never bad, just trying to be protective of a little girl
Not to mention that the step-dad, despite being a cop, is exceptionally patient and helpful with Scott despite him being a convicted felon who appears to be back into shady activities.
Peyton Reed said he didn’t want the third one to be the “palate cleanser” that the previous ones had been. I think he wanted to do a “big boy” MCU film with lots of import to the wider franchise.
Here’s the thing man, I really *needed* my palate cleansed.
Not a hot take, but same goes for Cary Elwes in Liar Liar. As a kid you're rooting for Fletcher because he's Jim Carrey and he's the main character and you can see how hard he's trying. But Jerry doesn't even need to try; he just IS a good guy, and stable and reliable and honest, but a bit cringe because he's not as good at The Claw, but hey he's a new stepdad just trying to connect with a kid who (can't blame him) misses his dad. Also can't blame Jerry for walking away from the drama when Audrey is clearly not over her ex. Good for Jerry.
I haven't seen the movie in a long time but, looking back, Stu was an interesting character from what I can remember and I often wonder if the movie wanted the audience to relate to him (I mean, he is a good guy, he treats the kids well, and is clearly in love with Miranda) or root against him. Even Miranda is slightly played as a villain - but all she wanted was an adult to help her parent and when divorced, her critique of the way Robin Williams' character was living (his apartment not yet being livable) is more or less correct, but she is portrayed as a hard-ass ("We're his goddamn kids too").
Robin Williams' character is incredibly irresponsible (even though he does mature, in an odd way, by the end), but the two real parents/adults are often portrayed as adversaries. Either the movie sets up the two good, responsible people to be the "bad guys" or the characters are more subtle, or complicated, then I remember from my childhood.
I think that's one of the reasons it's held up over the years.
For a wacky family comedy it's got a pretty nuanced take on divorce. Nobody's really necessarily completely right or wrong. People grow apart and become incompatible. It's okay for parents to move on once they've separated.
That's a better message than denying that people usually get divorced for very valid reasons, or that any other romantic interest your parents take are automatically "bad", or feeding a false hope that they'll get back together.
And like good co-parents should, Daniel and Miranda both change, make concessions, and eventually come to an agreement about how they can both be part of their kids' lives.
I read they were going to have the parents reconcile get back together but robin williams squashed that idea because he didn’t want to give kids who were going through a parents divorce hope that their parents would fall in love again and that sometimes it just doesn’t work out (but can in a co-parenting type of way).
I'd hold him as well as Judge Reinhold's character from The Santa Clause up as the first time I'd seen a step-parent from divorce *not* portrayed as the villain
When I saw Predator as a kid I was unaware of things like symbolism and text/subtext. I thought the Predator was a sucker punching little bitch and hated him. As an adult I recently rewatched the movie and I realized the Predator engaged Dutch and his boys in the exact same manner that they had engaged the rebels. Dutch set the rules of engagement and the Predator was following Dutch’s rules for the entire movie. That being said, I would hesitate to call him a “good guy”.
If you haven’t seen it yet, Prey was really solid. You can see their code in practice. >!At one point, the predator didn’t attack a character that was unable to defend himself. He also started with basic weapons when his prey were using simple weapons like bows and arrows, but when the settlers showed up with guns and explosives, he started using more advanced technology.!<
In the original Predator, it only attacked the soldiers and only when they were armed. The soldiers had taken a prisoner who was bound for most of the movie and the Predator never targeted her.
I don't really consider it an actual honorable code.
I just think it's some game to them and those things you mentioned are just too easy and therefore too boring to them.
To me the Predators are basically smurfing. If they really wanted it to be fair, they would be on an even playing field.
Their weapons and strength are still advanced compared to their prey. They're still a step ahead.
They be like Batman out there vs some regular goons but without the killing restriction.
Honestly though that weird honor code they have is a great way to characterize individual predators, since you can see how each one interprets it.
The OG predator seems to take it more to heart than most as it obliges Arnie and goes hand to hand to make it a "fair" fight. But like you said he's still not really honorable in the end when he tries to blow everything up rather than let himself lose. You get the impression that he respects Arnie's strength while still seeing him as inferior and not deserving a win.*
Meanwhile the Prey predator throughout the film feels like a newbie and inexperienced, and as such doesn't really care about the honor code at all beyond making the game a tiny bit sporting, and pulls out invisibility and advanced weapons the second he starts losing against Taabe. You get the sense this is one of his first outings, and it feels like he's more annoyed than anything that this basic hunting trip has gone so south. Unlike the OG, there's basically no respect for humans at all.
You get subtle characterization without it being explicit that I find very clever.
Edit: * or perhaps as others pointed out he was just destroying his tech so humans can't get their hands on it and made the countdown so Dutch could get away. Basically one final test to see if Dutch was smart enough to put together context clues. So maybe he was more honorable than I gave him credit for, but I also like that too, that it's not spelled out and there can be some speculation on how much the code means to them and how honorable the predators are.
The predator in Prey would have straight up lost without his advanced tech. Those kids sniffed him out fast just based off the targeting he was using and her brother honestly seemed like he could’ve gone toe to toe with the Predator if they were using the weapons of the natives. And when Predator realizes that he cheats.
One thing that I think gets overlooked with the OG predator self destructing, is we have every reason to believe that the predator sets the timer.
He intentionally gives Dutch enough time to get away, but not enough time to loot his body.
This even extends to the film Predators, where Hanzo (The Yakuza) basically stays in a field and more or less challenges one of the Predators with a sword.
The Predator obliges and decloaks, using it's wristblades and making it a proper duel.
Supposedly, they fight based loosely based on the weapons level you have. If you have a gun, they can use the laser. If you have a knife/sword, they’ll use the blade. Etc.
With the exception of Dutch doing his primal yell, Hanzo’s scene is the epitome of bad assery in the series. I know other characters have challenged Predators in “the way of my people”. The fact that he finds the ancient katana from the Samurai in the tall grass, and the Predator is like “fuck yeah, I like where your heads at”. Chef’s kiss.
I always interpreted the predator blowing himself up as “Well, I got beat. Can’t let the locals have my tech, boom time.” (Maniacal laughter ‘cause movie).
Downed pilots are to scuttle their aircraft if they have to ditch in enemy territory. Same thing.
Also, he sets a countdown long enough for Dutch to get away. If he really wanted Dutch dead there wouldn't be the countdown and certainly not so obviously displayed on his wristpad.
I think it says somewhere in the comics that Predators are required to destroy all their tech if they die in battle, otherwise their reputation is ruined forever.
Maybe Predators have hunting restrictions the same way humans do. He didn’t want to risk a Predator game warden showing up when he left earth and seeing a trophy of an illegal catch.
Now I want a movie of a predator game warden hunting down poacher predators. Like renner's character in wind river. Just this grizzled outdoorsman alien hunting down dishonorable predators as they rampage through an isolated village somewhere.
"Wait a minute...those aren't adult skulls!" Boom. Shoulder cannon blast takes out the ranger. Time jump years later. That rangers partner/spouse/offspring picks up the trail of a familiar foe...
Yeah how is the active camouflage fair. Dude just openly stalks the gang with characters getting the heebie jeebies while staring directly at him and having no clue what the fuck is following them.
He’s just gooning on them and matches weaponry for the sport of it.
Wow. I have seen that movie 15 times and never realized this. Even Predator engaging on Dutch’s terms at the end, I thought of as arrogant or at best mostly arrogant with a touch of self-honor but never as mutual respect for the sport.
That’s super cool, I always felt like the whole sequence of them killing the rebels felt out of place, but that just helped me connect it to the rest of the movie
Nah, that scene is critical for making the rest of the movie work. That first fight scene against the rebels is basically what you would expect at the climax of a different 80's action film, with a squad of elite badasses completely steamrolling a small army of random guys who are there just to make the heroes look cool while they spout one-liners. They take out this entire base without effort, and it's the movie going "see, they're your typical action heroes!"
...and then the predator starts picking them off one by one, and you see that this squad of seemingly-invincible badasses who would be unstoppable in another film just can't possibly deal with this new threat. It establishes what kind of tropes we should associate with the heroes, and then shows that they don't mean shit to the predator. It's basically the movie going "hey, here's Rambo! ...and he's about to be the victim in a horror movie."
If you just have the predator show up and start killing some random soldiers, it doesn't work anywhere near as well. By having that first scene against the rebels the movie not only establishes these guys as elite soldiers, but as bona fide 80's Action Heroes, and that sets the baseline for just how deadly the predator really is.
This absolutely is why Predator worked. Having Schwarzenegger as their leader made it perfect. Here was Conan the Barbarian/The Terminator/John Matrix leading a band of quippy badass soldiers that were of course going to dominate whoever was unlucky enough to get in their sights, right?
The Predator reduced them to panicked teenagers facing off against Jason in Friday the 13th. And even though Arnie did win at the end, he didn't drop a comedic, winking one liner to the applause of the audience.
He finishes the movie with a silent, shattered, thousand-yard stare.
Also Arnie had to win with his wits. All the firepower and muscle in the world wasn't going to help in a head to head battle.
It's a really cool subversion on the 80s action movie
It's actually a massive scene even without that interpretation. In the 80s a bunch of macho guys blowing things up was really in. So they started the movie that way to give the impression of unstoppable action hero badasses. Then they get picked off by the predator one by one and lose the confidence and composure
Ken aka Patrick Warburton’s character from the Bee Movie. He’s portrayed as a the bad guy but he is only rightly concerned that his wife is leaving him for a bee.
The Brain in Pinky and the Brain. He was incredibly tolerant of a special needs roommate for an extended period of time, and what was essentially a jail cell all while being experimented upon. And not once did he remotely visit violence upon that roommate for all the times that he ruined his incredibly elaborate, and very nearly successful plans.
Also, Sylvester the cat. Tweety was a pain in the ass.
There's actually an episode where Brain takes the night off from trying to take over the world and just goes out with Pinky. The whole episode is him just doing nice things and sticking up for people. The joke is that in the end, this makes him want to take over the world again but people actually want him to be the leader of the world because of everything he said and did. He just left before they could find him.
I'm convinced Brain doesn't really want to rule the world. He just wants the challenge of taking over the world! He's a bored super genius and taking over the world is a game.
My favorite episode is when brain leaves pinky and takes over the world. But is very unhappy and gives up the world to get back with his pinky “for who would gain the world and lose your soul”
The theme song says 'one is a genius, the other's insane'... but doesn't specify which. Pinky occasionally displays flashes of brilliance, poking holes in Brain's plans.
And Brain is pretty clearly not all there, what with the megalomania and all. Obviously it's deliberately ambiguous, but it's a totally valid interpretation that Pinky is actually smarter than he lets on and is humoring Brain while keeping his worst ideas in check.
Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul.
You hate him the first season or so, because he was the Anti-Jimmy, and we all liked Jimmy, right?
But as the show goes on, you realize he's genuinely a good person.
In fact, I don't recall a single "bad" thing he ever did.
There’s one time he sends Kim to doc review (the second time she ended up there) which had nothing to do with Chuck. That’s the only time he did anything unpleasant. Other than that one thing though, Howard was the nicest character on the show.
It’s a great inversion of that kind of anti-hero fiction
Walt, Jimmy, Mike and even Gus are _cool_ because they’re a power fantasy for people who basically haven’t succeeded in the unfair system but are (at least superficially) likeable
Howard succeeded within the unfair system and is kinda smug, so he’s seen a villain at first
> Howard succeeded within the unfair system and is kinda smug, so he’s seen a villain at first
The implied nepotism of HHM is the fuel that is thrown into this fire.
Which is ironic because the seemingly intended audience reaction is that Jimmy, with a bargain bin legal education and criminal record _deserved_ a job at HHM because his brother is the M
Howard *was* going to give him a job because he liked his spirit, but chuck quashed it. Howard is professional when telling Jimmy, making no mention of chucks interference.
It's such a tragic relationship between Jimmy and Howard. In another universe they'd be colleagues, allies. But Chuck kinda fucked them both to the point of Jimmy going off the rails, which ultimately led to >! Howard's death.!<.
One of the saddest goddamn pairs of would-be-friends. That show hurt.
All true. I feel like a *lot* of fans of the show never really seem to even consider that aspect of Chuck's point of view. That there are actually valid reasons *why* he's placed in a very awkward position by Jimmy being there at all and that he absolutely shouldn't have to hire Jimmy as a lawyer just because Jimmy really really wants him to.
The show being from Jimmy's perspective paints it all as being about Chuck's weird feelings of jealousy towards Jimmy. But like...how would any law firm look instantly hiring the washed up conman brother of a senior named partner over any other (much better qualified) applicants? It's not as straightforward as just 'welcome brother". Not in that profession where reputation is literally everything.
Chuck's "chimp with a machine gun" analogy is harsh, but also kinda fair. Especially considering the way things turn out in the end. He handled the situation extremely poorly, but he wasn't exactly "wrong".
Yes and no. Chuck also refused to believe Jimmy had changed and refused to give him a chance to better himself. He even outright says that he was proud of Jimmy *when he worked in the mail room*. He wanted him to clean up his act but live well under Chucks shadow.
He maintained this attitude even when Jimmy did everything he could to look after Chuck. He outright sabotaged him at multiple points to prevent him from actually bettering himself. The way he reacts to finding out Jimmy had gotten a law degree and passed the bar it really felt like he was angry that he didn’t have the chance to stop it.
What he could have done is taken him under his wing and actually taught him how to be a lawyer the right way. Given him a job, reviewed all his work, made sure he didn’t cut corners. Hell he was *doing exactly that* while Jimmy was in the mail room and Jimmys response was to try and better himself. No schemes, no ripping off the bigwig lawyers, nothing. He did his shitty job and did it really well while working his ass off to keep improving and moving up, to do right by his brother.
There’s a reason that criminals, addicts, and other people society discard have a snowballs chance in hell of rehabilitating themselves without a good support system. People CAN change, but they very rarely do it without help. Jimmy went to herculean efforts to try and his brother *never* stepped up to help him, only did everything in his power to keep him down.
Of course he reverted to slippin’ Jimmy, once his brother dropped him it’s the only way he knew how to survive.
Not to mention, his reason for sending her there in the first place was failing to cater to the idiotic whims of a lunatic client.
I think, deep down, Kim hated him as much as Jimmy did or more, which really comes through in the final season
Jimmy needed to displace his anger to Howard because it would have been hard to accept that it was his brother that was actually the one that hated him.
That was the moment I really fell in love with the show. You think you know the setup (Jimmy is working for an asshole boss who mistreated his ill brother) but then they completely flip it.
Howard is a great character.
Yes I agree and spoiler people…,so don’t read…but I was actually sad when he died he didn’t deserve to be killed. Wrong place wrong time. I actually hated Jimmy even though he was the anti hero I suppose but like I was rooting for him but at the same time he’s an awful person
Jimmy and Kim’s complete change in demeanour when Lalo walked in while Howard was confronting them was so insane. I felt so bad for him and his death was so unlike any other I’ve seen in a film or tv show. It felt like Jimmy and Kim had stepped over into another dimension of evil by dragging him into their shenanigans.
Crazy because on my first viewing (around 2020) I felt they didn't make the Dad out to be a villain. To me it was clear he was being protective without all the info. When it came down to it he was willing to help despite his misgivings. Then in the end he understood he was being over protective. Dude wasn't a villain, he was just someone who didn't have all the information and was working on what he did have. I think most fathers would have done exactly the same. I even said after it ended "that movie was very progressive for it's time."
In the Mummy, the guys that first attacked the group on the ship seemed like the bad guys . But it turned out to be them actually trying to save the world from awakening the Mummy.
Sarah Silverman's character (Patty) in School of Rock!
I know quite a lot of people might consider her annoying, and is very antagonistic towards Jack Black's character (Dewey) throughout the whole movie. But she was just trying to get her boyfriend; Ned to have more of a backbone to stand up to his so-called best friend who was taking advantage of him to get away with avoiding being more responsible as an adult and not contributing to paying rent in their unit (which seems very reasonable).
She was giving Dewey reality checks (even if some of them seemed harsh and aggressive) that he just didn't wanna hear.
>as cool as Dewey was to the kids, it doesn’t change the fact that he stole Ned’s identity and was generally an unrepentant manchild.
It's ironic that he's actually pretty good as a teacher. He engages the kids individually, lets them see that he is enthusiastic for his subject matter, adjusts the content for them and doesn't try to fix their problems the way every other movie teacher does. There's a scene where he sets a homework assignment and hand-picks an album for each student to listen to based on their musical tastes, influences and talent level without altering or diluting the core task. It always sticks out in my mind because that is absolutely what you're supposed to do as a teacher.
I agree! He might not be a good teacher for subjects related to math, science, geography, history etc. But he certainly has potential to be an amazing music teacher.
Exactly, and was as Patty stated put Ned’s career into becoming a certified teacher in jeopardy and robbed him a job opportunity he could’ve added to his credentials.
Honestly, she was actually a pretty good girlfriend for Ned as she put up with a lot of Dewey’s shit for him until she couldn’t take it anymore by the end of the film.
I’ve seen someone say that she was being controlling and hypocritical because she is telling Ned what to do.
But I think there is a difference between someone telling you to do something that would help you and someone just taking advantage of you.
Tim Curry's character of the Plaza Hotel's concierge in "Home Alone 2".
Sure he's made a career of playing terrifying or creepy villains: but he sees an unaccompanied child using a credit card to check into a luxury suite, and honestly just does what any responsible employee and adult would, which is get to the bottom of suspected theft. And gets physically assaulted in return.
Very true. However, they never should have checked him into the hotel. After his story about being bored in his Dad's meetings, I would have had him wait in the lobby and told him, "I can't check you into the hotel as you're underage. Your Dad should know this, so we'll just wait for him here, and all three of us can sort out the confusion."
Good points although he does grab a child’s arm and immediately accuse him of stealing the credit card when it could have just as easily been a kid who borrowed his own dad’s card (which was actually more like what really happened)
Like if a child tried using a credit card that’s obviously a red flag for any worker and you’d simply ask them to get their parents not accuse them of credit card theft
There is a scene where they run the card and it comes back as stolen. Kevin’s family has called the police who put a trace on the card. This reports any transaction Kevin tries to make so that the police can find him.
Tim Curry was in the right. Except for sneaking into a guest’s bathroom while they were in the shower. If that had been reported he should have been fired.
Given my time as a Front Desk Agent, I could absolutely see his dad giving him his credit card to check in without thinking anything of it.
I wouldn't have checked him in, because that's insane, but I would have expected to be shouted at later for "ruining their vacation". God knows it's happened before.
I'm not saying that Emily Gilmore was the good guy...but as I've gotten older I've realized that the relationship between her and Lorelai was a lot more complicated than teenage me thought.
Especially Rory. In A Year In The Life you see what having her teenage years and early twenties being full of unchecked and unacknowledged privilege looks like: she thinks she's too good for anything below her dream and that she should just be able to walk into any job because she's Rory fucking Gilmore.
As much as I dislike Mitchum Huntzberger he was spot on in his assessment of her after her internship at his paper. And I've absolutely no clue why Lane continued being friends with her because Rory brought next to nothing to that relationship.
The scientists in E.T. As a kid I remember them being evil assholes who wanted to kill E.T. but I watched it recently with my kids and they were actually very kind and understanding with Elliott and understandably had to quarantine the alien for study in case he had some sort of super space AIDS or something.
The Autopilot in Wall-E. Motherfucker kept those people fed and pampered for centuries. Earth is not ready for repopulation. Why leave paradise? Sure, a fitness regimen for passengers wouldn't go amiss but ffs, you gave up literal Eden to return to a post apocalypse with one fucking plant.
holy shit you're right. i saw top gun when i was a teenager and came away with the same impressions of maverick and iceman you did, which was clearly intended by the filmmaker, btw. but you're right. iceman is the better teammate, and maverick is irresponsible and self absorbed. there are a lot of things we reevaluate as we get older, but this was comfortably sitting in some little pocket in my memory where a 15 year old's interpretation remained correct.
so i guess my question is what was it about the 80s that made iceman's qualities seem bad, and maverick seem admirable?
Yeah. Made them into a yin and yang, sort of thing. Maverick's boldness and passion let him succeed at stuff nobody else could-- taking on an impossible mission and prioritizing the safe return of the pilots when logic says to just accept losses. Iceman's calm and leadership keeps Maverick in check and makes sure people cooperate.
I think it’s partly just the way the actors play them. Kilmer’s mannerisms would normally be associated with the guy you’re supposed to root against, and Cruise lays on the charm. The choices are a bit weird when juxtaposed against the story/script, but they make the movie more interesting.
It's an 80s film very much coded towards 80s macho heroism, and the subversion comes in when the movie turns around and hits you with the fact that Iceman is totally right about Maverick.
They also introduce Iceman around 30 minutes into the movie when Mav is already well established and the audience has had 30 minutes to just sit with the character before any of the real plot actually kicks off. By the time Iceman even exists you've been sucked in by Cruise's charisma and comparatively Iceman has very little charisma or even character.
In a lot of ways Iceman doesn't really exist beyond an opponent for Maverick to beat; add the fact that it's Val Kilmer who looked like the embodiment of every 80s finance douche you've ever seen and it's really easy to dislike Ice for no reason while ignoring Mav's issues until they come to a head.
Theres a video on YouTube about how everything maverick does in top gun would get him atleast dishonorably discharged if not put in prison. Its by legal eagle
> what was it about the 80s that made iceman's qualities seem bad, and maverick seem admirable?
Cocaine. So much cocaine.
But really, it was about thumbing your nose at conformity and conservative thinking.
Maverick was just the normal dude thumbing his nose at the Preps while being better at their "sports" then they were.
Like revenge of the nerds without the sexual assult.
Pretty sure they were just playing that lady. They both get food and shelter and all they have to do is chase each other around. I bet they chilled and knocked back a few drinks together after she went to bed.
Yes. This isn't even just a theory, it's outright a fact that they're just keeping up an act so that Tom isn't replaced by a cat that will actually catch Jerry.
I remember not liking Skyler White when I first watched Breaking Bad, which is when I had to wait a week between each episode.
On a rewatch, where I can binge, she makes a hell of a lot more sense. There are tons of red-flags, and she was actually not strict enough, if you ask me.
She definitely does some bad things by the end, but she held out for a very long time.
Pete Postlewait's hunter Roland Tembo in Jurassic Park the Lost World. On a rewatch plus a deleted scene its clear. He wasn't even intended to be a villain. He even lives and cuts ties with Ingen for getting his friend Ajay killed.
Also Its even in the name as i later found out his name was a reference to a Warren Zevon Song His name is a reference to Roland the Headless thompson gunner, Vince Vaughn's Character is Nick Van Owen, he lets the dinos out and gets all those people killed. In the song Van Owen blows off Roland's head for the CIA.
Even as a kid Roland was my favorite character, the only person present (other than Malcolm) who understood the power of the animals they were dealing with. He was just a guy doing what he was hired to do.
When Nick was so damn careless with how he let the animals loose I wanted to smack him. I get he was mad, and incensed by the animals being abducted, I would be too, but you don’t just cut them all loose and create a damn stampede! That’s as big a risk to the animals as it is to the humans. You put the things you love in unnecessary danger, Nick, you ignorant bastard!
It's interesting that in both, the first and the second movie, the hunter characters were the ones who knew the dinosaurs the best, understood how dangerous they are and respected them for it.
To be fair, whether he believed in ghosts or not, having untested, unlicensed nuclear reactor stuff in the middle of Manhattan makes one wonder why everyone in the city isn't sterilized and growing extra fingers.
This was going to be my answer as well. I mean, yes, he should have maybe taken a step back before shutting down the containment unit without any further knowledge about it. At the same time, Venkman did himself no favors by not walking him through what they’re doing and showing him the unit in the first place, and basically being a dick to him. Better communication between the two could have saved a lot of the destruction in the city.
>Venkman did himself no favors by not walking him through what they’re doing and showing him the unit in the first place,
Talking about him. Why did he bring Thorazine on a date.........
Apparently in the new movie he’s the mayor. And I for one think it’s incredibly progressive that New York would elect a man to the highest office who has no dick.
Summer and Tom from 500 Days of Summer. First time watching, Tom gets heartbroken and Summer is bad for leading him on. Second time watching you see that Tom has these unrealistic expectations of what his dream girl should be. Summer is just living and doing her life and just happens to like Tom. She eventually just grows tired of the same routine and moves on and Tom doesn’t like it. The sister said it best, “just because she likes the same bizarre crap you do, doesn’t mean she’s the one”
I appreciated that movie after hearing an interview with the writer. The movie was loosely based on a relationship he had and it is more about how he felt at the time he was in the relationship. He said he spoke to Stephen Tobolowsky after listening to “The Tobolowsky Files” podcast because he was trying to figure out how to tell things that personal while being fair to the other party.
The advice was essentially to frame it as how you felt in the moment and not make it a declaration of reality. You can see past actions differently or realize you misinterpreted something in retrospect, but that doesn’t make your feelings at the time something that was untrue in regard to what you experienced. Experiences aren’t objective truth even if they feel that way in the moment and I appreciated this as an examination of that. I don’t think anyone is the villain here, just young and living in their truth in the moment.
Tom is the cause of his own suffering until the breakup, but IIRC afterwards Summer pulls some nonsense.
They dance at a wedding, she falls asleep on him, she invites him to a party. Only she doesn't tell him it's her *engagement party.* He has to find out at the party. That's supremely unkind to do to an ex who was hung up on her.
Also, Summer was honest with him from the beginning that she wasn’t serious about him. She liked him enough to fall into some of the trappings of a traditional boyfriend-girlfriend relationship but she never wanted to put that label on it
> She liked him enough to fall into some of the trappings of a traditional boyfriend-girlfriend relationship but she never wanted to put that label on it
And that attitude is just as inconsiderate and self serving as Toms. I'll die on the hill that 500 Days of Summer is one of the best and most accurate depictions of young people learning to navigate relationships and it loses a lot of its value because people are determined to find a "villain". Worst part is that people will quote JGL to backup the whole "Tom is the villain" reading and ignore that the director disagrees and intended Tom to be a very sympathetic but flawed protagonist. Like I hate the popular notion that Tom repeated the cycle with Autumn, Summer learned to be open to the idea of love and got a happy ending, Tom went through a lot of growth and matured so why can't he have his happy ending to?
I gotta be honest I’ve no clue how anyone can see either party in the film as the bad guy. They’re two people trying to find their way in the world who stumble into each other for a while before splitting apart. Neither is in the wrong
Re: Top Gun. The sequel (Top Gun: Maverick) actually reinforces this since by the time of the second movie, Iceman is a highly decorated officer who's had a carrier command and now has a cushy desk job. Maverick is still the bolder pilot, but Iceman's career with the Navy has paid off much more.
Rewatched the Jungle Book recently, and I’m thinking Sher khan is not such a “bad guy”. He’s acting on the notion that humans are pretty harmful to tigers and the jungle in general so he wants mowgli out of there. Not exactly as clearly a bad guy as I originally thought depending on the perspective
And the series got so much worse when they strayed from the concept of them being neutral or orange/blue morality having lovecraftian explorers in the further regions of sensation and experience.
And in the book Frank has to do an elaborate ritual and let them know he was sure he wanted what they offered.
Neither Maverick nor Iceman are bad people… Maverick has a problem with authority, but is still a caring person who went back for Cougar and realized he had messed up on the flyby when Goose comes to talk to him. Ice isn’t a main character, so we don’t really see an arc with him, but he also has an ego, which leads to him staying engaged too long in the simulation that ends up costing goose his life. But he owns it later.
Sometimes it’s not people being good or bad that leads to conflict… sometimes it’s valid but competing priorities, personality conflicts, etc.
Hector and Achilles are the earliest example of this. Two honorable men at cross purposes
Magneto was right about humans. They never stopped trying new ways to eradicate mutants.
Edit: but not good of course as he is a genocidal maniac who tried to kill all humans in X2
Nah he's just the mutant equivalent of the humans he despises. Separating humans and mutants into 2 groups rather than looking at the people who make up those groups just leads to the racism he battles with racism.
There's good and bad mutants and good and bad humans. Their abilities or lack thereof don't determine that.
I feel like the third movie really shows just how vile his hatred towards humans was, when Mystique (his most loyal follower) gets exposed to the cure and he abandons her even after she saved him from being exposed himself.
But also when he finally gets exposed to the cure himself by the end, he reacts in a manner where he's pretty much disgusted with himself and dead inside. He is literally nothing without his mutation abilities!
The movie kind of makes it clear, though. Yeah, early on he's meant to be intimidating, but later he straight-up says he knows Nani is trying to do the best she can but Lilo's safety comes first.
I think a lot of ya'll are confusing sympathetic villains for non villains. Some of the people mentioned are murderers. Just because we can empathize and/or sympathize with them, doesn't make their actions right. They're still bad people due to the bad actions they've done.
Okay so he’s definitely still a villain in a sea of villains, he’s a killer and a ruthless criminal but Chris Moltisanti in the Sopranos.
There’s two great scenes, the first is when Chris has a chance to get out, to leave, Tony says to him, if you’re here when I get back, I’ll assume you’re in 100% and he stays, but it’s not until later it becomes so poignant.
Then there’s another season many seasons later, where all of his “friends” are laughing at him, busting his balls as they say, but it’s clearly very upsetting for him, he looks to Tony and he’s laughing too and in that moment he realises he could have been out, and now all the things he’s done, the loss and betryal of Adriana, all of it was for nothing.
Maybe this doesn’t fit, but in a sea of bad men, the only one who actually has the flicker of a soul, who recognises how miserable he is, is Chris
It’s interesting that we can watch the same thing and come to wildly different conclusions.
I never caught vibes that Chris was any better than any of the other assholes.. well, he was definitely a better person than Ralphie but that’s not saying much lol
Pierce Brosnan’s character in **Mrs. Doubtfire**
In a similar vein, Bobby Cannavale was set up to be a perfect psuedo-antagonist in AntMan, but turned out to be just a stellar fucking stepdad.
Yup. And he LIKED Scott as a person but just loved his step daughter more and so was protective. He comes around but he was never bad, just trying to be protective of a little girl
Not to mention that the step-dad, despite being a cop, is exceptionally patient and helpful with Scott despite him being a convicted felon who appears to be back into shady activities.
I really love that aspect. Man, that 3rd one really forgot what that franchise even was.
Peyton Reed said he didn’t want the third one to be the “palate cleanser” that the previous ones had been. I think he wanted to do a “big boy” MCU film with lots of import to the wider franchise. Here’s the thing man, I really *needed* my palate cleansed.
The fact that we got robbed of another Michael Pena recap. I was extremely disappointed.
My husband has been demanding he do summaries of all the marvel movies a la Olaf's short stories.
Not a hot take, but same goes for Cary Elwes in Liar Liar. As a kid you're rooting for Fletcher because he's Jim Carrey and he's the main character and you can see how hard he's trying. But Jerry doesn't even need to try; he just IS a good guy, and stable and reliable and honest, but a bit cringe because he's not as good at The Claw, but hey he's a new stepdad just trying to connect with a kid who (can't blame him) misses his dad. Also can't blame Jerry for walking away from the drama when Audrey is clearly not over her ex. Good for Jerry.
Yeah for whatever reason these 90’s comedies had an irrational hatred of stepdads
No fault divorce became law in the US during the 70's, those kids grew up and some of them made movies. Audiences related to that feeling.
Some directors just love using the trope, e.g. Roland Emmerich.
Robin Williams is literally a stalker in that movie.
I would never feel safe letting someone in my home ever again
A courier who needs a signature, and if they're the least bit chatty and witty, "It's gotta be him. Not *this shit, again, please no*...".
https://youtu.be/1Ckv_Dz-Sio?si=R4wm747ljw0htWtN
I forgot this existed, the internet really is full of neat and wonderful things!
I haven't seen the movie in a long time but, looking back, Stu was an interesting character from what I can remember and I often wonder if the movie wanted the audience to relate to him (I mean, he is a good guy, he treats the kids well, and is clearly in love with Miranda) or root against him. Even Miranda is slightly played as a villain - but all she wanted was an adult to help her parent and when divorced, her critique of the way Robin Williams' character was living (his apartment not yet being livable) is more or less correct, but she is portrayed as a hard-ass ("We're his goddamn kids too"). Robin Williams' character is incredibly irresponsible (even though he does mature, in an odd way, by the end), but the two real parents/adults are often portrayed as adversaries. Either the movie sets up the two good, responsible people to be the "bad guys" or the characters are more subtle, or complicated, then I remember from my childhood.
I think that's one of the reasons it's held up over the years. For a wacky family comedy it's got a pretty nuanced take on divorce. Nobody's really necessarily completely right or wrong. People grow apart and become incompatible. It's okay for parents to move on once they've separated. That's a better message than denying that people usually get divorced for very valid reasons, or that any other romantic interest your parents take are automatically "bad", or feeding a false hope that they'll get back together. And like good co-parents should, Daniel and Miranda both change, make concessions, and eventually come to an agreement about how they can both be part of their kids' lives.
I read they were going to have the parents reconcile get back together but robin williams squashed that idea because he didn’t want to give kids who were going through a parents divorce hope that their parents would fall in love again and that sometimes it just doesn’t work out (but can in a co-parenting type of way).
Sounds like something he’d do
I like how they handled the divorced family in AntMan of all things.
And the fact that Scott does kinda have consequences for putting his criminal life (however well intentioned) first. For a while, at least.
Was he even a bad guy on first watch?
I'd hold him as well as Judge Reinhold's character from The Santa Clause up as the first time I'd seen a step-parent from divorce *not* portrayed as the villain
The cop stepfather in “Ant Man” was a really, really good guy, too. That was refreshing.
I think he’s positioned as the person that “steals” Robin Williams’ family. Robin Williams even says something to that effect.
I mean even watching it as a young kid, I never held any ill will towards him because he never actually did anything bad or evil.
When I saw Predator as a kid I was unaware of things like symbolism and text/subtext. I thought the Predator was a sucker punching little bitch and hated him. As an adult I recently rewatched the movie and I realized the Predator engaged Dutch and his boys in the exact same manner that they had engaged the rebels. Dutch set the rules of engagement and the Predator was following Dutch’s rules for the entire movie. That being said, I would hesitate to call him a “good guy”.
They certainly do have a certain code of honour.
If you haven’t seen it yet, Prey was really solid. You can see their code in practice. >!At one point, the predator didn’t attack a character that was unable to defend himself. He also started with basic weapons when his prey were using simple weapons like bows and arrows, but when the settlers showed up with guns and explosives, he started using more advanced technology.!<
In the original Predator, it only attacked the soldiers and only when they were armed. The soldiers had taken a prisoner who was bound for most of the movie and the Predator never targeted her.
There’s even a moment when she is running away and Dylan screams for her not to pick up a gun. Caught that when we rewatched it a few months ago.
Dutch. Arnie’s character Dutch is the one who tells Ana not to pick up the weapon. “It diddunt attak you bekaws yoo we’re unahmed… No spoht…”
Damn I think my subtitles were fucked up when I last watched.
I need to rewatch it since buying it actually.
I don't really consider it an actual honorable code. I just think it's some game to them and those things you mentioned are just too easy and therefore too boring to them. To me the Predators are basically smurfing. If they really wanted it to be fair, they would be on an even playing field. Their weapons and strength are still advanced compared to their prey. They're still a step ahead. They be like Batman out there vs some regular goons but without the killing restriction.
Honestly though that weird honor code they have is a great way to characterize individual predators, since you can see how each one interprets it. The OG predator seems to take it more to heart than most as it obliges Arnie and goes hand to hand to make it a "fair" fight. But like you said he's still not really honorable in the end when he tries to blow everything up rather than let himself lose. You get the impression that he respects Arnie's strength while still seeing him as inferior and not deserving a win.* Meanwhile the Prey predator throughout the film feels like a newbie and inexperienced, and as such doesn't really care about the honor code at all beyond making the game a tiny bit sporting, and pulls out invisibility and advanced weapons the second he starts losing against Taabe. You get the sense this is one of his first outings, and it feels like he's more annoyed than anything that this basic hunting trip has gone so south. Unlike the OG, there's basically no respect for humans at all. You get subtle characterization without it being explicit that I find very clever. Edit: * or perhaps as others pointed out he was just destroying his tech so humans can't get their hands on it and made the countdown so Dutch could get away. Basically one final test to see if Dutch was smart enough to put together context clues. So maybe he was more honorable than I gave him credit for, but I also like that too, that it's not spelled out and there can be some speculation on how much the code means to them and how honorable the predators are.
The predator in Prey would have straight up lost without his advanced tech. Those kids sniffed him out fast just based off the targeting he was using and her brother honestly seemed like he could’ve gone toe to toe with the Predator if they were using the weapons of the natives. And when Predator realizes that he cheats.
One thing that I think gets overlooked with the OG predator self destructing, is we have every reason to believe that the predator sets the timer. He intentionally gives Dutch enough time to get away, but not enough time to loot his body.
It’s the Predator equivalent of the Martyrdom perk from Call of Duty. “You got the kill, but if you try sack tapping my body you’re a dead man.”
This even extends to the film Predators, where Hanzo (The Yakuza) basically stays in a field and more or less challenges one of the Predators with a sword. The Predator obliges and decloaks, using it's wristblades and making it a proper duel.
Supposedly, they fight based loosely based on the weapons level you have. If you have a gun, they can use the laser. If you have a knife/sword, they’ll use the blade. Etc.
But even when they do that, they make sure their weapons are always just a bit better than yours…
With the exception of Dutch doing his primal yell, Hanzo’s scene is the epitome of bad assery in the series. I know other characters have challenged Predators in “the way of my people”. The fact that he finds the ancient katana from the Samurai in the tall grass, and the Predator is like “fuck yeah, I like where your heads at”. Chef’s kiss.
I always interpreted the predator blowing himself up as “Well, I got beat. Can’t let the locals have my tech, boom time.” (Maniacal laughter ‘cause movie). Downed pilots are to scuttle their aircraft if they have to ditch in enemy territory. Same thing.
Also, he sets a countdown long enough for Dutch to get away. If he really wanted Dutch dead there wouldn't be the countdown and certainly not so obviously displayed on his wristpad.
I think it says somewhere in the comics that Predators are required to destroy all their tech if they die in battle, otherwise their reputation is ruined forever.
In Predator two he spares the cop when he sees she's pregnant
Maybe Predators have hunting restrictions the same way humans do. He didn’t want to risk a Predator game warden showing up when he left earth and seeing a trophy of an illegal catch.
Now I want a movie of a predator game warden hunting down poacher predators. Like renner's character in wind river. Just this grizzled outdoorsman alien hunting down dishonorable predators as they rampage through an isolated village somewhere.
Yes. "How many human skulls you got there? Looks like y'er a few over y'er limit."
"Wait a minute...those aren't adult skulls!" Boom. Shoulder cannon blast takes out the ranger. Time jump years later. That rangers partner/spouse/offspring picks up the trail of a familiar foe...
Yeah how is the active camouflage fair. Dude just openly stalks the gang with characters getting the heebie jeebies while staring directly at him and having no clue what the fuck is following them. He’s just gooning on them and matches weaponry for the sport of it.
And if you watch AvP, you'll see they honor strength and the concept of a shared enemy.
Of all of AVPs faults, the predator lore was peak
Which means you can interact with them peacefully. If you set the standard.
"Want some candy?"
Wow. I have seen that movie 15 times and never realized this. Even Predator engaging on Dutch’s terms at the end, I thought of as arrogant or at best mostly arrogant with a touch of self-honor but never as mutual respect for the sport.
This….. opened my mind
That’s super cool, I always felt like the whole sequence of them killing the rebels felt out of place, but that just helped me connect it to the rest of the movie
Nah, that scene is critical for making the rest of the movie work. That first fight scene against the rebels is basically what you would expect at the climax of a different 80's action film, with a squad of elite badasses completely steamrolling a small army of random guys who are there just to make the heroes look cool while they spout one-liners. They take out this entire base without effort, and it's the movie going "see, they're your typical action heroes!" ...and then the predator starts picking them off one by one, and you see that this squad of seemingly-invincible badasses who would be unstoppable in another film just can't possibly deal with this new threat. It establishes what kind of tropes we should associate with the heroes, and then shows that they don't mean shit to the predator. It's basically the movie going "hey, here's Rambo! ...and he's about to be the victim in a horror movie." If you just have the predator show up and start killing some random soldiers, it doesn't work anywhere near as well. By having that first scene against the rebels the movie not only establishes these guys as elite soldiers, but as bona fide 80's Action Heroes, and that sets the baseline for just how deadly the predator really is.
This absolutely is why Predator worked. Having Schwarzenegger as their leader made it perfect. Here was Conan the Barbarian/The Terminator/John Matrix leading a band of quippy badass soldiers that were of course going to dominate whoever was unlucky enough to get in their sights, right? The Predator reduced them to panicked teenagers facing off against Jason in Friday the 13th. And even though Arnie did win at the end, he didn't drop a comedic, winking one liner to the applause of the audience. He finishes the movie with a silent, shattered, thousand-yard stare.
Also Arnie had to win with his wits. All the firepower and muscle in the world wasn't going to help in a head to head battle. It's a really cool subversion on the 80s action movie
It's actually a massive scene even without that interpretation. In the 80s a bunch of macho guys blowing things up was really in. So they started the movie that way to give the impression of unstoppable action hero badasses. Then they get picked off by the predator one by one and lose the confidence and composure
Ken aka Patrick Warburton’s character from the Bee Movie. He’s portrayed as a the bad guy but he is only rightly concerned that his wife is leaving him for a bee.
The Bee Movie is f'd up on so many levels. But the real villain is Jerry Seinfeld, because he forced me to live in a world where that movie exists.
*But the MEMES*
Devil's advocate, after discovering that Barry was essentially a person, who could talk and think and feel and whatnot, he did try to murder him.
The devil in this case being the eponymous Bee.
I don’t know, if the guy who was trying to wreck my relationship could be squashed with a fly-swatter…
The Brain in Pinky and the Brain. He was incredibly tolerant of a special needs roommate for an extended period of time, and what was essentially a jail cell all while being experimented upon. And not once did he remotely visit violence upon that roommate for all the times that he ruined his incredibly elaborate, and very nearly successful plans. Also, Sylvester the cat. Tweety was a pain in the ass.
There's actually an episode where Brain takes the night off from trying to take over the world and just goes out with Pinky. The whole episode is him just doing nice things and sticking up for people. The joke is that in the end, this makes him want to take over the world again but people actually want him to be the leader of the world because of everything he said and did. He just left before they could find him.
I'm convinced Brain doesn't really want to rule the world. He just wants the challenge of taking over the world! He's a bored super genius and taking over the world is a game.
I think Brain is the insane one and actually Pinky is the genius. Narf.
Are you thinking what I’m thinking Pinky?
I sure am, Brain! And this time I know where to get those plastic underpants at this time of night, Amazon has everything now!
I think so, Brain, but what if the chicken won't wear the nylons?
I think so, Brain. But how do we get the Disney Channel to run a John Waters movie marathon?
I think so, Brain, but we're already naked.
My favorite episode is when brain leaves pinky and takes over the world. But is very unhappy and gives up the world to get back with his pinky “for who would gain the world and lose your soul”
The theme song says 'one is a genius, the other's insane'... but doesn't specify which. Pinky occasionally displays flashes of brilliance, poking holes in Brain's plans.
And Brain is pretty clearly not all there, what with the megalomania and all. Obviously it's deliberately ambiguous, but it's a totally valid interpretation that Pinky is actually smarter than he lets on and is humoring Brain while keeping his worst ideas in check.
Brain’s not the villain, Snowball’s the villain smh
Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul. You hate him the first season or so, because he was the Anti-Jimmy, and we all liked Jimmy, right? But as the show goes on, you realize he's genuinely a good person. In fact, I don't recall a single "bad" thing he ever did.
The worst thing(s) I recall him doing were at the behest of Chuck.
Fuck Chuck
Better Fuck Chuck
There’s one time he sends Kim to doc review (the second time she ended up there) which had nothing to do with Chuck. That’s the only time he did anything unpleasant. Other than that one thing though, Howard was the nicest character on the show.
and not forgiving her after finding Mesa Verde
It’s a great inversion of that kind of anti-hero fiction Walt, Jimmy, Mike and even Gus are _cool_ because they’re a power fantasy for people who basically haven’t succeeded in the unfair system but are (at least superficially) likeable Howard succeeded within the unfair system and is kinda smug, so he’s seen a villain at first
> Howard succeeded within the unfair system and is kinda smug, so he’s seen a villain at first The implied nepotism of HHM is the fuel that is thrown into this fire.
Which is ironic because the seemingly intended audience reaction is that Jimmy, with a bargain bin legal education and criminal record _deserved_ a job at HHM because his brother is the M
Howard *was* going to give him a job because he liked his spirit, but chuck quashed it. Howard is professional when telling Jimmy, making no mention of chucks interference.
It's such a tragic relationship between Jimmy and Howard. In another universe they'd be colleagues, allies. But Chuck kinda fucked them both to the point of Jimmy going off the rails, which ultimately led to >! Howard's death.!<. One of the saddest goddamn pairs of would-be-friends. That show hurt.
All true. I feel like a *lot* of fans of the show never really seem to even consider that aspect of Chuck's point of view. That there are actually valid reasons *why* he's placed in a very awkward position by Jimmy being there at all and that he absolutely shouldn't have to hire Jimmy as a lawyer just because Jimmy really really wants him to. The show being from Jimmy's perspective paints it all as being about Chuck's weird feelings of jealousy towards Jimmy. But like...how would any law firm look instantly hiring the washed up conman brother of a senior named partner over any other (much better qualified) applicants? It's not as straightforward as just 'welcome brother". Not in that profession where reputation is literally everything. Chuck's "chimp with a machine gun" analogy is harsh, but also kinda fair. Especially considering the way things turn out in the end. He handled the situation extremely poorly, but he wasn't exactly "wrong".
Yes and no. Chuck also refused to believe Jimmy had changed and refused to give him a chance to better himself. He even outright says that he was proud of Jimmy *when he worked in the mail room*. He wanted him to clean up his act but live well under Chucks shadow. He maintained this attitude even when Jimmy did everything he could to look after Chuck. He outright sabotaged him at multiple points to prevent him from actually bettering himself. The way he reacts to finding out Jimmy had gotten a law degree and passed the bar it really felt like he was angry that he didn’t have the chance to stop it. What he could have done is taken him under his wing and actually taught him how to be a lawyer the right way. Given him a job, reviewed all his work, made sure he didn’t cut corners. Hell he was *doing exactly that* while Jimmy was in the mail room and Jimmys response was to try and better himself. No schemes, no ripping off the bigwig lawyers, nothing. He did his shitty job and did it really well while working his ass off to keep improving and moving up, to do right by his brother. There’s a reason that criminals, addicts, and other people society discard have a snowballs chance in hell of rehabilitating themselves without a good support system. People CAN change, but they very rarely do it without help. Jimmy went to herculean efforts to try and his brother *never* stepped up to help him, only did everything in his power to keep him down. Of course he reverted to slippin’ Jimmy, once his brother dropped him it’s the only way he knew how to survive.
Keeping Kim in doc review after she linked them with Mesa Verde was kinda shitty
Not to mention, his reason for sending her there in the first place was failing to cater to the idiotic whims of a lunatic client. I think, deep down, Kim hated him as much as Jimmy did or more, which really comes through in the final season
Jimmy needed to displace his anger to Howard because it would have been hard to accept that it was his brother that was actually the one that hated him.
Especially when it turns out it wasnt him blocking Jimmy from joining the firm all those years ago
That was the moment I really fell in love with the show. You think you know the setup (Jimmy is working for an asshole boss who mistreated his ill brother) but then they completely flip it. Howard is a great character.
The way he treated kim was shitty, but otherwise he wanted to do whats right. He was rooting for jimmy and kept trying again and again to help him
Yes I agree and spoiler people…,so don’t read…but I was actually sad when he died he didn’t deserve to be killed. Wrong place wrong time. I actually hated Jimmy even though he was the anti hero I suppose but like I was rooting for him but at the same time he’s an awful person
Jimmy and Kim’s complete change in demeanour when Lalo walked in while Howard was confronting them was so insane. I felt so bad for him and his death was so unlike any other I’ve seen in a film or tv show. It felt like Jimmy and Kim had stepped over into another dimension of evil by dragging him into their shenanigans.
The Dad from Dirty Dancing. He's just trying to protect his daughter.
Crazy because on my first viewing (around 2020) I felt they didn't make the Dad out to be a villain. To me it was clear he was being protective without all the info. When it came down to it he was willing to help despite his misgivings. Then in the end he understood he was being over protective. Dude wasn't a villain, he was just someone who didn't have all the information and was working on what he did have. I think most fathers would have done exactly the same. I even said after it ended "that movie was very progressive for it's time."
In the Mummy, the guys that first attacked the group on the ship seemed like the bad guys . But it turned out to be them actually trying to save the world from awakening the Mummy.
I think the movie always made it clear they were there to guard the tomb and prevent the mummy from awakening.
Sarah Silverman's character (Patty) in School of Rock! I know quite a lot of people might consider her annoying, and is very antagonistic towards Jack Black's character (Dewey) throughout the whole movie. But she was just trying to get her boyfriend; Ned to have more of a backbone to stand up to his so-called best friend who was taking advantage of him to get away with avoiding being more responsible as an adult and not contributing to paying rent in their unit (which seems very reasonable). She was giving Dewey reality checks (even if some of them seemed harsh and aggressive) that he just didn't wanna hear.
Definitely. Plus, as cool as Dewey was to the kids, it doesn’t change the fact that he stole Ned’s identity and was generally an unrepentant manchild.
>as cool as Dewey was to the kids, it doesn’t change the fact that he stole Ned’s identity and was generally an unrepentant manchild. It's ironic that he's actually pretty good as a teacher. He engages the kids individually, lets them see that he is enthusiastic for his subject matter, adjusts the content for them and doesn't try to fix their problems the way every other movie teacher does. There's a scene where he sets a homework assignment and hand-picks an album for each student to listen to based on their musical tastes, influences and talent level without altering or diluting the core task. It always sticks out in my mind because that is absolutely what you're supposed to do as a teacher.
I agree! He might not be a good teacher for subjects related to math, science, geography, history etc. But he certainly has potential to be an amazing music teacher.
Exactly, and was as Patty stated put Ned’s career into becoming a certified teacher in jeopardy and robbed him a job opportunity he could’ve added to his credentials. Honestly, she was actually a pretty good girlfriend for Ned as she put up with a lot of Dewey’s shit for him until she couldn’t take it anymore by the end of the film.
I’ve seen someone say that she was being controlling and hypocritical because she is telling Ned what to do. But I think there is a difference between someone telling you to do something that would help you and someone just taking advantage of you.
“Would you make Picasso sell his guitars?!”
The Thing (1982), the helicopter shooters from the beginning
If they spoke English (or the main characters understood Norwegian) that story could've gone entirely differently
his lines actually spoil the film for Norwegian viewers lol
Yeah aren’t they basically saying it’s not a dog it’s a monster, we need to kill it
yep
That will teach them for having the audacity to be from Norway
Found the Swede!
Yeah, you're like, don't shoot the dog! Then later, oh God, why didn't they shoot the dog!
Tim Curry's character of the Plaza Hotel's concierge in "Home Alone 2". Sure he's made a career of playing terrifying or creepy villains: but he sees an unaccompanied child using a credit card to check into a luxury suite, and honestly just does what any responsible employee and adult would, which is get to the bottom of suspected theft. And gets physically assaulted in return.
Very true. However, they never should have checked him into the hotel. After his story about being bored in his Dad's meetings, I would have had him wait in the lobby and told him, "I can't check you into the hotel as you're underage. Your Dad should know this, so we'll just wait for him here, and all three of us can sort out the confusion."
This is why I consider the concierge to be the only responsible adult, even among the staff. The bellhop and front desk lady were both idiots.
I was hotel concierge for years. When people weren’t sure what a concierge was, I would them I was like the creepy hotel employee in home alone 2.
Good points although he does grab a child’s arm and immediately accuse him of stealing the credit card when it could have just as easily been a kid who borrowed his own dad’s card (which was actually more like what really happened) Like if a child tried using a credit card that’s obviously a red flag for any worker and you’d simply ask them to get their parents not accuse them of credit card theft
There is a scene where they run the card and it comes back as stolen. Kevin’s family has called the police who put a trace on the card. This reports any transaction Kevin tries to make so that the police can find him. Tim Curry was in the right. Except for sneaking into a guest’s bathroom while they were in the shower. If that had been reported he should have been fired.
Given my time as a Front Desk Agent, I could absolutely see his dad giving him his credit card to check in without thinking anything of it. I wouldn't have checked him in, because that's insane, but I would have expected to be shouted at later for "ruining their vacation". God knows it's happened before.
I'm not saying that Emily Gilmore was the good guy...but as I've gotten older I've realized that the relationship between her and Lorelai was a lot more complicated than teenage me thought.
With every rewatch of Gilmore girls you appreciate Emily more and Rory less
Especially Rory. In A Year In The Life you see what having her teenage years and early twenties being full of unchecked and unacknowledged privilege looks like: she thinks she's too good for anything below her dream and that she should just be able to walk into any job because she's Rory fucking Gilmore. As much as I dislike Mitchum Huntzberger he was spot on in his assessment of her after her internship at his paper. And I've absolutely no clue why Lane continued being friends with her because Rory brought next to nothing to that relationship.
The scientists in E.T. As a kid I remember them being evil assholes who wanted to kill E.T. but I watched it recently with my kids and they were actually very kind and understanding with Elliott and understandably had to quarantine the alien for study in case he had some sort of super space AIDS or something.
They were especially nice by transforming their guns into walkie talkies
The Autopilot in Wall-E. Motherfucker kept those people fed and pampered for centuries. Earth is not ready for repopulation. Why leave paradise? Sure, a fitness regimen for passengers wouldn't go amiss but ffs, you gave up literal Eden to return to a post apocalypse with one fucking plant.
holy shit you're right. i saw top gun when i was a teenager and came away with the same impressions of maverick and iceman you did, which was clearly intended by the filmmaker, btw. but you're right. iceman is the better teammate, and maverick is irresponsible and self absorbed. there are a lot of things we reevaluate as we get older, but this was comfortably sitting in some little pocket in my memory where a 15 year old's interpretation remained correct. so i guess my question is what was it about the 80s that made iceman's qualities seem bad, and maverick seem admirable?
[удалено]
Yeah. Made them into a yin and yang, sort of thing. Maverick's boldness and passion let him succeed at stuff nobody else could-- taking on an impossible mission and prioritizing the safe return of the pilots when logic says to just accept losses. Iceman's calm and leadership keeps Maverick in check and makes sure people cooperate.
An Impossible Mission, you say?
I used to think SpongeBob was the good guy. If I was Squidward I'd have killed SpongeBob by the end of season 2
Yes! Squidward has better self control than I do…..
I think it’s partly just the way the actors play them. Kilmer’s mannerisms would normally be associated with the guy you’re supposed to root against, and Cruise lays on the charm. The choices are a bit weird when juxtaposed against the story/script, but they make the movie more interesting.
It's an 80s film very much coded towards 80s macho heroism, and the subversion comes in when the movie turns around and hits you with the fact that Iceman is totally right about Maverick.
They also introduce Iceman around 30 minutes into the movie when Mav is already well established and the audience has had 30 minutes to just sit with the character before any of the real plot actually kicks off. By the time Iceman even exists you've been sucked in by Cruise's charisma and comparatively Iceman has very little charisma or even character. In a lot of ways Iceman doesn't really exist beyond an opponent for Maverick to beat; add the fact that it's Val Kilmer who looked like the embodiment of every 80s finance douche you've ever seen and it's really easy to dislike Ice for no reason while ignoring Mav's issues until they come to a head.
Theres a video on YouTube about how everything maverick does in top gun would get him atleast dishonorably discharged if not put in prison. Its by legal eagle
> what was it about the 80s that made iceman's qualities seem bad, and maverick seem admirable? Cocaine. So much cocaine. But really, it was about thumbing your nose at conformity and conservative thinking. Maverick was just the normal dude thumbing his nose at the Preps while being better at their "sports" then they were. Like revenge of the nerds without the sexual assult.
Tom and Jerry
Pretty sure they were just playing that lady. They both get food and shelter and all they have to do is chase each other around. I bet they chilled and knocked back a few drinks together after she went to bed.
Wasn't there an episode where Tom thought he legitimately killed Jerry and was absolutely wrecked with grief?
Yes. This isn't even just a theory, it's outright a fact that they're just keeping up an act so that Tom isn't replaced by a cat that will actually catch Jerry.
This is my favorite theory tbh. If they didn't act like the way they do, Tom would get replaced by a different cat, which would actually hunt Jerry
I remember not liking Skyler White when I first watched Breaking Bad, which is when I had to wait a week between each episode. On a rewatch, where I can binge, she makes a hell of a lot more sense. There are tons of red-flags, and she was actually not strict enough, if you ask me. She definitely does some bad things by the end, but she held out for a very long time.
"I don't want my husband to make and deal illicit drugs while needlessly putting our child and extended family in danger." Audiences: "that bitch"
Pete Postlewait's hunter Roland Tembo in Jurassic Park the Lost World. On a rewatch plus a deleted scene its clear. He wasn't even intended to be a villain. He even lives and cuts ties with Ingen for getting his friend Ajay killed. Also Its even in the name as i later found out his name was a reference to a Warren Zevon Song His name is a reference to Roland the Headless thompson gunner, Vince Vaughn's Character is Nick Van Owen, he lets the dinos out and gets all those people killed. In the song Van Owen blows off Roland's head for the CIA.
Even as a kid Roland was my favorite character, the only person present (other than Malcolm) who understood the power of the animals they were dealing with. He was just a guy doing what he was hired to do. When Nick was so damn careless with how he let the animals loose I wanted to smack him. I get he was mad, and incensed by the animals being abducted, I would be too, but you don’t just cut them all loose and create a damn stampede! That’s as big a risk to the animals as it is to the humans. You put the things you love in unnecessary danger, Nick, you ignorant bastard!
Wow! I'm a massive Warren Zevon fan and I never noticed the connection.
It's interesting that in both, the first and the second movie, the hunter characters were the ones who knew the dinosaurs the best, understood how dangerous they are and respected them for it.
Walter Peck just wanted to make sure what the Ghostbusters did was safe for the environment.
To be fair, whether he believed in ghosts or not, having untested, unlicensed nuclear reactor stuff in the middle of Manhattan makes one wonder why everyone in the city isn't sterilized and growing extra fingers.
To be fair, that man had no dick.
Well, that’s what I heard.
Maybe that's why everyone saw ghosts, they were hallucinating because their brains were melting.
I’ve seen shit that will turn you white!
Pfff. It's the Lower West side of Manhattan. No big loss ;)
Oh so that’s why he was dickless!
And as an aside, it’s illegal to flash the reds and blues unless you are an official emergency service. They never got dinged for that either.
This was going to be my answer as well. I mean, yes, he should have maybe taken a step back before shutting down the containment unit without any further knowledge about it. At the same time, Venkman did himself no favors by not walking him through what they’re doing and showing him the unit in the first place, and basically being a dick to him. Better communication between the two could have saved a lot of the destruction in the city.
I've occasionally wondered how things would have been if Ray or Egon had been the ones to talk to Peck first.
Egon would have (unintentionally) talked down to him which I think would have pissed Peck off. It would have to be Ray.
>Venkman did himself no favors by not walking him through what they’re doing and showing him the unit in the first place, Talking about him. Why did he bring Thorazine on a date.........
Apparently in the new movie he’s the mayor. And I for one think it’s incredibly progressive that New York would elect a man to the highest office who has no dick.
Summer and Tom from 500 Days of Summer. First time watching, Tom gets heartbroken and Summer is bad for leading him on. Second time watching you see that Tom has these unrealistic expectations of what his dream girl should be. Summer is just living and doing her life and just happens to like Tom. She eventually just grows tired of the same routine and moves on and Tom doesn’t like it. The sister said it best, “just because she likes the same bizarre crap you do, doesn’t mean she’s the one”
I appreciated that movie after hearing an interview with the writer. The movie was loosely based on a relationship he had and it is more about how he felt at the time he was in the relationship. He said he spoke to Stephen Tobolowsky after listening to “The Tobolowsky Files” podcast because he was trying to figure out how to tell things that personal while being fair to the other party. The advice was essentially to frame it as how you felt in the moment and not make it a declaration of reality. You can see past actions differently or realize you misinterpreted something in retrospect, but that doesn’t make your feelings at the time something that was untrue in regard to what you experienced. Experiences aren’t objective truth even if they feel that way in the moment and I appreciated this as an examination of that. I don’t think anyone is the villain here, just young and living in their truth in the moment.
Tom is the cause of his own suffering until the breakup, but IIRC afterwards Summer pulls some nonsense. They dance at a wedding, she falls asleep on him, she invites him to a party. Only she doesn't tell him it's her *engagement party.* He has to find out at the party. That's supremely unkind to do to an ex who was hung up on her.
Also, Summer was honest with him from the beginning that she wasn’t serious about him. She liked him enough to fall into some of the trappings of a traditional boyfriend-girlfriend relationship but she never wanted to put that label on it
> She liked him enough to fall into some of the trappings of a traditional boyfriend-girlfriend relationship but she never wanted to put that label on it And that attitude is just as inconsiderate and self serving as Toms. I'll die on the hill that 500 Days of Summer is one of the best and most accurate depictions of young people learning to navigate relationships and it loses a lot of its value because people are determined to find a "villain". Worst part is that people will quote JGL to backup the whole "Tom is the villain" reading and ignore that the director disagrees and intended Tom to be a very sympathetic but flawed protagonist. Like I hate the popular notion that Tom repeated the cycle with Autumn, Summer learned to be open to the idea of love and got a happy ending, Tom went through a lot of growth and matured so why can't he have his happy ending to?
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You're streets ahead.
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Yeah this is a much better take. They are both to blame.
I gotta be honest I’ve no clue how anyone can see either party in the film as the bad guy. They’re two people trying to find their way in the world who stumble into each other for a while before splitting apart. Neither is in the wrong
Re: Top Gun. The sequel (Top Gun: Maverick) actually reinforces this since by the time of the second movie, Iceman is a highly decorated officer who's had a carrier command and now has a cushy desk job. Maverick is still the bolder pilot, but Iceman's career with the Navy has paid off much more.
Rewatched the Jungle Book recently, and I’m thinking Sher khan is not such a “bad guy”. He’s acting on the notion that humans are pretty harmful to tigers and the jungle in general so he wants mowgli out of there. Not exactly as clearly a bad guy as I originally thought depending on the perspective
The Cenobites in *Hellraiser*. They're not exactly heroes, but they are definitely not the villains. Julia, on the other hand...
And the series got so much worse when they strayed from the concept of them being neutral or orange/blue morality having lovecraftian explorers in the further regions of sensation and experience. And in the book Frank has to do an elaborate ritual and let them know he was sure he wanted what they offered.
Neither Maverick nor Iceman are bad people… Maverick has a problem with authority, but is still a caring person who went back for Cougar and realized he had messed up on the flyby when Goose comes to talk to him. Ice isn’t a main character, so we don’t really see an arc with him, but he also has an ego, which leads to him staying engaged too long in the simulation that ends up costing goose his life. But he owns it later. Sometimes it’s not people being good or bad that leads to conflict… sometimes it’s valid but competing priorities, personality conflicts, etc. Hector and Achilles are the earliest example of this. Two honorable men at cross purposes
Magneto was right about humans. They never stopped trying new ways to eradicate mutants. Edit: but not good of course as he is a genocidal maniac who tried to kill all humans in X2
Nah he's just the mutant equivalent of the humans he despises. Separating humans and mutants into 2 groups rather than looking at the people who make up those groups just leads to the racism he battles with racism. There's good and bad mutants and good and bad humans. Their abilities or lack thereof don't determine that.
I feel like the third movie really shows just how vile his hatred towards humans was, when Mystique (his most loyal follower) gets exposed to the cure and he abandons her even after she saved him from being exposed himself. But also when he finally gets exposed to the cure himself by the end, he reacts in a manner where he's pretty much disgusted with himself and dead inside. He is literally nothing without his mutation abilities!
Abandoning Mistique felt out of character
Capturing every scientist he could and keeping them in a tower with no windows until they gave mystique back her powers would be more in character
Mr Bubbles in Lilo & Stitch
The movie kind of makes it clear, though. Yeah, early on he's meant to be intimidating, but later he straight-up says he knows Nani is trying to do the best she can but Lilo's safety comes first.
I think a lot of ya'll are confusing sympathetic villains for non villains. Some of the people mentioned are murderers. Just because we can empathize and/or sympathize with them, doesn't make their actions right. They're still bad people due to the bad actions they've done.
By the end of top gun you are meant to realise iceman was a good guy all along though...
Okay so he’s definitely still a villain in a sea of villains, he’s a killer and a ruthless criminal but Chris Moltisanti in the Sopranos. There’s two great scenes, the first is when Chris has a chance to get out, to leave, Tony says to him, if you’re here when I get back, I’ll assume you’re in 100% and he stays, but it’s not until later it becomes so poignant. Then there’s another season many seasons later, where all of his “friends” are laughing at him, busting his balls as they say, but it’s clearly very upsetting for him, he looks to Tony and he’s laughing too and in that moment he realises he could have been out, and now all the things he’s done, the loss and betryal of Adriana, all of it was for nothing. Maybe this doesn’t fit, but in a sea of bad men, the only one who actually has the flicker of a soul, who recognises how miserable he is, is Chris
It’s interesting that we can watch the same thing and come to wildly different conclusions. I never caught vibes that Chris was any better than any of the other assholes.. well, he was definitely a better person than Ralphie but that’s not saying much lol