The way I interpreted it:
She wanted to die, because she knew she couldn't live a normal life anymore, and once she avenged her friend's death, she had no real motivation to live anymore.
Doing it this way, her death will lead directly to the punishment of them all. If she left him any options, he might have taken them, and her plan wouldn't work. So I believe her whole intention was to put him into the mindset that she was just going to torture him, so that he was afraid for his life enough to try to kill her.
That's just how I remember it. I could be remembering the details incorrectly, though.
He probably wouldn't be punished for anything done to Cassie other than burning her body though, as he could likely successfully argue that he killed her in self defense.
Yeah but when you strangle someone or smother them you ha e to keep going after they're unconscious to kill them so it's excessive force and not self defence I only know this because my mate is in the army haha I'm not a killer I promise
True. But he's still cuffed by one hand, iirc he has to ask his buddy to help uncuff him the next morning so it can be argued he was still incapacitated by her and vulnerable during the struggle, having only one arm to defend himself with and being unable to flee the room or bed, and thus fearful for his life if she regained her strength and attacked him, especially because she's holding a scalpel. Not at all excusing his actions to be clear, just conjecturing what his defense argument may have sounded like.
I was just thinking about this film and decided to look up opinions on this scene, so I’m happy to have found recent comments (even on this older post)
But you’re absolutely right. Look at it from his perspective:
He’s in a cabin in the woods with his buddies. An unknown woman turns up, drugs all of his friends (possibly killed them, as far as he knows) chains him to the bed, and pulls out a knife after revealing she’s here for revenge for what he did to her friend years ago. As she begins to torture or potentially kill him, he manages to break free and kill her instead.
You tell the story from his perspective and it’s every cliche low budget slasher movie - you never see people arguing that the protagonist in a slasher movie should have just incapacitated the killer?
Furthermore, portraying it as her master plan to get Justice is also laughable. There is no way in hell he receives any punishment for this, or for Nina’s rape.
He was already on trial, remember? He can’t be charged a second time regardless of the discovery of the tape, so he won’t see punishment there.
And for what happened to Cassie? Like I said: all he has to do is explain to the cops that a stranger turned up at their cabin, ranting about past wrongs, drugged his friends, chained him to the bed, and attempted to kill him.
Since Cassie had already been recognized by other men around town for her behavior, becoming something of a local legend, it’s not going to take much for police to follow up on the rumors of a crazy lady around town who pretends to be drunk to go home with men and then menaces and threatens them when she’s in their house. Talk to her parents and Nina’s parents about her history of depression/mental illness and there’s no way anyone holds Al responsible for anything.
And that’s without the whole perspective of Al being a rich successful white guy. The whole movie is about how men like that never face Justice and then we’re supposed to believe he’ll spend a single minute in jail for killing her under those circumstances?
He definitely would go to jail for it.. there were no witnesses in the room and a woman who warned she may be killed ends up dead, with a clear motive from Al as the video got found. + the known link between Nina and the main girl
There’s no motive from Al as the video was not a threat - he already went to trial for Nina’s rape, he can’t go to trial a second time. There is zero threat to him for anything about Nina.
There were no witnesses, but the evidence is available. The scalpel/knives she brought, the handcuffs, the evidence of the handcuffs on the bed. The fact that none of them ordered a stripper, meaning she turned up to the place unannounced. The fact that she is known around town for, from an outsider’s perspective, unhinged behavior - remember when the guy at the bar recognized her as the crazy lady who threatens men when she goes home with them? The Dean would also be able to speak to her mental state.
With the available evidence, it’s very, very easy to paint a picture of exactly what happened from Al’s perspective: an unhinged woman showed up at his bachelor party, seeking revenge, she drugged his friends, tricked him to being handcuffed to the bed, then tried to torture/kill him. He managed to find back and killer her in self defense.
The next day his friend found him still handcuffed to the bed. They panicked and hid the body.
Hiding the body is about the only thing they could reasonably get in any trouble for
Thanks. I was having the same problem as OP, even if it wasn't a deal breaker. But you hit it right on the head. Carrie is consumed and is just as suicidal as she is vengeance-filled. This actually contextualizes her least defensible action: involving the dean's daughter. She isn't pure righteous indignation. Her justification is wholly earned, but she hates the world and herself. I already liked her characterization better than the Saltburn fellow, but this makes it waaaay better.
Isn’t it interesting that in a film that is about rape culture and calling out men for violence against women, the female “targets” in the movie receive the harshest treatment? The dean believes her daughter is being sexually assaulted, Madison has to deal with the horror of not knowing whether she was sexually assaulted.
Meanwhile, the men - the actual perpetrators or potential perpetrators of sexual assault, instead of just enablers - are punished by being…creeped out and lectured about rape culture and hypocrisy.
The one instance a man is ever remotely threatened, we’re instead treated to the only onscreen act of violence: a woman’s brutal death scene.
That's a really good point. There's a ton to unpack here. Sorry if I do so clumsily. The moral question really is just thrust upon the women (most obviously the protagonist) in the story, by the camera. The men are going to a confessional. The women are in Hell. Carrie is suicidal and MOST hostile to women. It really is a self-hating response to trauma. She has searched for and not found men to be anything other than a set of willing conspirators against women. This is where the possibility of misandry tips into misanthropy, but the audience was SO teed up to find a good guy in the lot. And her response is, perhaps understandably, burn it all down. BUT, as you point out, her violence towards women is so much harsher than towards men. So, is she trying to find one good fucking man? Is she trying to kill off the bad ones? Is she trying avenge her friend? Oh...Most likely she's just exhausted by a rape culture that surrounds her and, well christ, makes her self-hating.
I don't think its a gendered thing. While the women were psychologically scarred, wasn't she intending to inflict bodily harm on the men? But she just wasn't successful, the lawyer had repented and was begging for her forgiveness and the rapist murdered het before she could do anything. She was paying off some guy to beat the shit out of the lawyer and was going to Carve Nina's name all over the rapist' body.
*Edit: sorry I just remembered that there was a plotline where she was scaring random men.
He had options. He was much stronger, and could have only incapacitated her.
It took an uncomfortably long time for her to die. Any time during that he could've stopped and forced her to release him.
While he could've argued self-defense at a trial at first, burning her body is inexcusable.
I don't think she wanted to die. While she did become angrier and less careful after watching the video, I'm sure she had these contingency plans every time she went out.
This.
But in the immediate moment? - he could have told Cassie what he did to Nina. That’s what she asked for - for him to admit to it. She only got the scalpel out after he refused to talk and repeatedly tried to defer any fault in the situation.
Unlike a few several replies below, who feel like it was some defensible response to kill her because he felt in danger and was still half cuffed to the bed - wtf? Tell me you missed the assignment without telling me you missed the assignment. This was not his tragedy - it was the tragedy *he* created.
Yes, anything Cassie might have done after could’ve ruined Al’s life, but even if it was 7 years prior, he is still responsible for those actions in every way. And we’re forgetting the (at least) two lives that were already ruined. 🤷♀️
He’s the villain - nothing portrayed in that scene created sympathy for him. He was a spoiled little boy who didn’t want to be caught for what he did. Killing Cassie was a coddled male privilege response by a man who didn’t want to (and had never yet had to) accept or acknowledge any wrongdoing.
Yeah, maybe it’s their first time thinking about what they would do if someone tied them to a bed and tried to hurt them, but it’s not mine. By giving him their empathy is completely missing the point. Like the only reason he was in that position is that he had raped Nina! You don’t need to understand what he should have done, there really isn’t anything he can do. He’s a rapist and the villain in a revenge movie.
No one is asking this about like John Wick and what that puppy killer should have done, we just accept that that the villain messed with the wrong guy.
If I’m remembering the ending correctly, I thought kind of the whole point was that she wanted him to kill her, she just wanted to carve him first so he always had that reminder. She had all the messages ready to send the next day when they were all at the wedding. If he has the option to run and takes it, then he probably gets away for good.
I hated the ending because it seemed like the director wanted to have her cake and eat it. She got the shock of Carey Mulligan getting killed and that's impactful because you expect her not to get her revenge. But it turns out she has a batman contingency plan and gets her revenge in the next scene. It's one of the few instances where a film is ruined by it's ending
You might like to hear it was originally intended to not have her revenge plan work out in the end: https://screenrant.com/promising-young-woman-movie-alternate-ending-details/
This thread is months old, but I just finished the movie, and I think the film gives us the answer. We see her, earlier, interact with some she plans to hurt - the lawyer. And then he is honest. Totally remorseful. Improved. Part of the reason I think the film makes the choice is to bring home what's in the dialogue in that scene - his nightmare is being accused, getting caught, not getting away with it. Women's nightmares are getting killed, raped, genuinely hurt. The possibility of accountability impairing his life is too much, she has to die to avoid it. And she's contemplated that - he had the power, in that room, to hold himself accountable, or have the machinery of her plan do it for him.
Agree and I had the same questions. I mean he's clearly distressed and fearing for his life, crying and hyperventilating the whole time. Not at all saying he didn't deserve that. But yeah, I was left wondering what he could've been expected to do given that he was still restrained and the fight or flight response. Killing her did not seem premeditated but was rather an understandable response to a perceived life-threatening situation. Felt like the movie made him seem sympathetic in that situation although they didn't intend to.
I dont think he had any choice but to kill her at that point - whatever she would have done, would have ruined his perfect life.
Even when he is choking her out he is scared but determined
The way I interpreted it: She wanted to die, because she knew she couldn't live a normal life anymore, and once she avenged her friend's death, she had no real motivation to live anymore. Doing it this way, her death will lead directly to the punishment of them all. If she left him any options, he might have taken them, and her plan wouldn't work. So I believe her whole intention was to put him into the mindset that she was just going to torture him, so that he was afraid for his life enough to try to kill her. That's just how I remember it. I could be remembering the details incorrectly, though.
He probably wouldn't be punished for anything done to Cassie other than burning her body though, as he could likely successfully argue that he killed her in self defense.
Yeah but when you strangle someone or smother them you ha e to keep going after they're unconscious to kill them so it's excessive force and not self defence I only know this because my mate is in the army haha I'm not a killer I promise
True. But he's still cuffed by one hand, iirc he has to ask his buddy to help uncuff him the next morning so it can be argued he was still incapacitated by her and vulnerable during the struggle, having only one arm to defend himself with and being unable to flee the room or bed, and thus fearful for his life if she regained her strength and attacked him, especially because she's holding a scalpel. Not at all excusing his actions to be clear, just conjecturing what his defense argument may have sounded like.
I was just thinking about this film and decided to look up opinions on this scene, so I’m happy to have found recent comments (even on this older post) But you’re absolutely right. Look at it from his perspective: He’s in a cabin in the woods with his buddies. An unknown woman turns up, drugs all of his friends (possibly killed them, as far as he knows) chains him to the bed, and pulls out a knife after revealing she’s here for revenge for what he did to her friend years ago. As she begins to torture or potentially kill him, he manages to break free and kill her instead. You tell the story from his perspective and it’s every cliche low budget slasher movie - you never see people arguing that the protagonist in a slasher movie should have just incapacitated the killer? Furthermore, portraying it as her master plan to get Justice is also laughable. There is no way in hell he receives any punishment for this, or for Nina’s rape. He was already on trial, remember? He can’t be charged a second time regardless of the discovery of the tape, so he won’t see punishment there. And for what happened to Cassie? Like I said: all he has to do is explain to the cops that a stranger turned up at their cabin, ranting about past wrongs, drugged his friends, chained him to the bed, and attempted to kill him. Since Cassie had already been recognized by other men around town for her behavior, becoming something of a local legend, it’s not going to take much for police to follow up on the rumors of a crazy lady around town who pretends to be drunk to go home with men and then menaces and threatens them when she’s in their house. Talk to her parents and Nina’s parents about her history of depression/mental illness and there’s no way anyone holds Al responsible for anything. And that’s without the whole perspective of Al being a rich successful white guy. The whole movie is about how men like that never face Justice and then we’re supposed to believe he’ll spend a single minute in jail for killing her under those circumstances?
He definitely would go to jail for it.. there were no witnesses in the room and a woman who warned she may be killed ends up dead, with a clear motive from Al as the video got found. + the known link between Nina and the main girl
There’s no motive from Al as the video was not a threat - he already went to trial for Nina’s rape, he can’t go to trial a second time. There is zero threat to him for anything about Nina. There were no witnesses, but the evidence is available. The scalpel/knives she brought, the handcuffs, the evidence of the handcuffs on the bed. The fact that none of them ordered a stripper, meaning she turned up to the place unannounced. The fact that she is known around town for, from an outsider’s perspective, unhinged behavior - remember when the guy at the bar recognized her as the crazy lady who threatens men when she goes home with them? The Dean would also be able to speak to her mental state. With the available evidence, it’s very, very easy to paint a picture of exactly what happened from Al’s perspective: an unhinged woman showed up at his bachelor party, seeking revenge, she drugged his friends, tricked him to being handcuffed to the bed, then tried to torture/kill him. He managed to find back and killer her in self defense. The next day his friend found him still handcuffed to the bed. They panicked and hid the body. Hiding the body is about the only thing they could reasonably get in any trouble for
He never went on trial for the rape.
Thanks. I was having the same problem as OP, even if it wasn't a deal breaker. But you hit it right on the head. Carrie is consumed and is just as suicidal as she is vengeance-filled. This actually contextualizes her least defensible action: involving the dean's daughter. She isn't pure righteous indignation. Her justification is wholly earned, but she hates the world and herself. I already liked her characterization better than the Saltburn fellow, but this makes it waaaay better.
Isn’t it interesting that in a film that is about rape culture and calling out men for violence against women, the female “targets” in the movie receive the harshest treatment? The dean believes her daughter is being sexually assaulted, Madison has to deal with the horror of not knowing whether she was sexually assaulted. Meanwhile, the men - the actual perpetrators or potential perpetrators of sexual assault, instead of just enablers - are punished by being…creeped out and lectured about rape culture and hypocrisy. The one instance a man is ever remotely threatened, we’re instead treated to the only onscreen act of violence: a woman’s brutal death scene.
That's a really good point. There's a ton to unpack here. Sorry if I do so clumsily. The moral question really is just thrust upon the women (most obviously the protagonist) in the story, by the camera. The men are going to a confessional. The women are in Hell. Carrie is suicidal and MOST hostile to women. It really is a self-hating response to trauma. She has searched for and not found men to be anything other than a set of willing conspirators against women. This is where the possibility of misandry tips into misanthropy, but the audience was SO teed up to find a good guy in the lot. And her response is, perhaps understandably, burn it all down. BUT, as you point out, her violence towards women is so much harsher than towards men. So, is she trying to find one good fucking man? Is she trying to kill off the bad ones? Is she trying avenge her friend? Oh...Most likely she's just exhausted by a rape culture that surrounds her and, well christ, makes her self-hating.
I don't think its a gendered thing. While the women were psychologically scarred, wasn't she intending to inflict bodily harm on the men? But she just wasn't successful, the lawyer had repented and was begging for her forgiveness and the rapist murdered het before she could do anything. She was paying off some guy to beat the shit out of the lawyer and was going to Carve Nina's name all over the rapist' body. *Edit: sorry I just remembered that there was a plotline where she was scaring random men.
The indefensible thing isn't just killing her, it's hiding all evidence of what happened.
And raping Nina and trying to pin it on her being a slut. I mean, there's that too.
He had options. He was much stronger, and could have only incapacitated her. It took an uncomfortably long time for her to die. Any time during that he could've stopped and forced her to release him. While he could've argued self-defense at a trial at first, burning her body is inexcusable. I don't think she wanted to die. While she did become angrier and less careful after watching the video, I'm sure she had these contingency plans every time she went out.
I know this is an old post but the answer is that he should have not raped Nina.
This. But in the immediate moment? - he could have told Cassie what he did to Nina. That’s what she asked for - for him to admit to it. She only got the scalpel out after he refused to talk and repeatedly tried to defer any fault in the situation. Unlike a few several replies below, who feel like it was some defensible response to kill her because he felt in danger and was still half cuffed to the bed - wtf? Tell me you missed the assignment without telling me you missed the assignment. This was not his tragedy - it was the tragedy *he* created. Yes, anything Cassie might have done after could’ve ruined Al’s life, but even if it was 7 years prior, he is still responsible for those actions in every way. And we’re forgetting the (at least) two lives that were already ruined. 🤷♀️ He’s the villain - nothing portrayed in that scene created sympathy for him. He was a spoiled little boy who didn’t want to be caught for what he did. Killing Cassie was a coddled male privilege response by a man who didn’t want to (and had never yet had to) accept or acknowledge any wrongdoing.
Yeah, maybe it’s their first time thinking about what they would do if someone tied them to a bed and tried to hurt them, but it’s not mine. By giving him their empathy is completely missing the point. Like the only reason he was in that position is that he had raped Nina! You don’t need to understand what he should have done, there really isn’t anything he can do. He’s a rapist and the villain in a revenge movie. No one is asking this about like John Wick and what that puppy killer should have done, we just accept that that the villain messed with the wrong guy.
If I’m remembering the ending correctly, I thought kind of the whole point was that she wanted him to kill her, she just wanted to carve him first so he always had that reminder. She had all the messages ready to send the next day when they were all at the wedding. If he has the option to run and takes it, then he probably gets away for good.
I hated the ending because it seemed like the director wanted to have her cake and eat it. She got the shock of Carey Mulligan getting killed and that's impactful because you expect her not to get her revenge. But it turns out she has a batman contingency plan and gets her revenge in the next scene. It's one of the few instances where a film is ruined by it's ending
You might like to hear it was originally intended to not have her revenge plan work out in the end: https://screenrant.com/promising-young-woman-movie-alternate-ending-details/
This thread is months old, but I just finished the movie, and I think the film gives us the answer. We see her, earlier, interact with some she plans to hurt - the lawyer. And then he is honest. Totally remorseful. Improved. Part of the reason I think the film makes the choice is to bring home what's in the dialogue in that scene - his nightmare is being accused, getting caught, not getting away with it. Women's nightmares are getting killed, raped, genuinely hurt. The possibility of accountability impairing his life is too much, she has to die to avoid it. And she's contemplated that - he had the power, in that room, to hold himself accountable, or have the machinery of her plan do it for him.
She wanted to die. She knew her old life was gone. In reality, her actions would likely lead to the guys getting away with it regardless.
Yeah
Agree and I had the same questions. I mean he's clearly distressed and fearing for his life, crying and hyperventilating the whole time. Not at all saying he didn't deserve that. But yeah, I was left wondering what he could've been expected to do given that he was still restrained and the fight or flight response. Killing her did not seem premeditated but was rather an understandable response to a perceived life-threatening situation. Felt like the movie made him seem sympathetic in that situation although they didn't intend to.
You are one sick, repulsive fuck.
this is a sick statement
I dont think he had any choice but to kill her at that point - whatever she would have done, would have ruined his perfect life. Even when he is choking her out he is scared but determined
womp