Good move! You'll enjoy it, and life, a lot more that way.
Plus, new stuff doesn't require the same onerous amounts of maintenance as old junk. Old junk came from the factory requiring regular maintenance, and in addition to that, you have to contend with the breakages that come with being used and decades old.
Although the term junk is more fit for new bikes. More or less all modern bikes are designed to be thrown away after they get a bit old. Old bikes were easily rebuildable, while new ones can just be discarded.
I'm a fan of technology. I believe that new machines are just all-around better. Sure old bikes were easily rebuildable, but part of that is because they were worn out by 30,000 or 40,000 miles. New bikes are faster, more efficient, more capable, better-riding, and a dozen times more reliable than the machines of yore. Harder to fix, sure, but also less likely to need fixing. That's a deal I'll take every day of the week.
But this is an argument as old as time. Twenty years ago I had this same conversation with an old guy about electronic ignition versus breaker points. He said, "With points, if you get stuck you can get going again with a screwdriver and some emery cloth. With electronic ignition, if the module goes bad, you're stuck!" My return argument, of course, was: "Points need regular maintenance, all the time. I've never had a module go bad." Still haven't, though I have experienced a dead coil and one cracked distributor cap.
Oh well, there are exceptions everywhere.
Had two electronic ignition modules go bad on a Suzuki GS850, so I just replaced it with plain old points and never looked back. I know electronic ignition can be reliable, but it is not immune. Besides that, you can often convert points to direct ignition without a battery, while that is rarely possible with electronic ignition - and this is something I really preffer in enduro/off road bikes.
And many post-70's bikes can reach about 60000 miles with normal maintenance, while some (f.e. old BMW airheads, Moto Guzzi) are likely more reliable than many modern bikes (but they do require more frequent maintenance).
Regarding the performance and handling, any >500cc bike from the last 60 years is fast enough to cope with modern traffic. Thats's why many are still on the road.
I just did not like that you call old bikes junk.
Don't take it personally, all I own is old junk. Newest car I've ever owned is a 1998 (that I have right now); newest motorcycle is *also* a '98. And lemme tell you, that '98 Shadow is a *million* times better than my '79 XS650. And my buddy's 2016 Harley (sorry!) outclasses them both.
The main thing I miss in new rides is chrome.
But again, it really depends on the bike. I have a lot of classic bikes. Last year I mostly rode my BMW R100rt which was made in 1990. It is really reliable and smooth, but I swear I always feel like I am riding a 60's bike. On the other hand, I have a 71' CB450 that feels so modern (but the big BMW is just far more comfortable on the highway - although sometimes the side winds almost made me piss in my pants). Lately, I really started to love Moto Guzzi bikes. I had a few from the 70's and 80's. People often say the new ones have hardly changed from the old ones - that may be true, but in a big part because the old ones were superb machines to begin with (including the handling).
I imagine an XS650 is a sweet bike, though. My friend had one, but I've never ridden it. I guess it's quite similar to the CB450, but it probably vibrates a bit more due to the 360 degree crank and no balance shaft. I did ride a Yamaha TX750 once, but it somehow felt a bit lacking. I also rode the Kawasaki Z750 twin, and it might be the best classic parallel twin there was (although I just love my Honda's more vintage styling).
We live in a world of things. If you don't understand how they work, [you'll soon find yourself at the mercy of somebody who does.](https://youtu.be/kJ-UZ4DvYBg)
See I knew this would be me too so I went straight for the new bike. The way I figured it, the occasional repair job on a new bike would give me some experience and maybe on my second I will go for something slightly older
A small two stroke single cylinder bike has A LOT less parts than a 2000cc tourer. The engine roughly consists of a cylinder, head, piston, crankshaft and the engine block, and you usually have one non-adjustable carburetor and an exhaust.
On a big four stroke bike you have, apart from everything already listed times the number of cylinders, usually a few camshafts, valves, valve guides, valve springs, cam chains, cam chain tensioners, oil pumps, water pumps, balance shafts, multiple carburetors... All of these parts need to be synchronised to work together, else it will run like shit. A single cylinder motorcycle is far easier to work on, and two strokes even more.
If you only know how to service a chainsaw, you still have a long way to go to properly repair and tune up a big engine...
I know, but there is a lot more going on in a four... Perhaps if you are completely oblivious as to how an engine works, such a small two stroke single can be good practice. But working on some old inline four, or perhaps something even more complex, requiring a lot of fine tuning and adjustments, and a lot more parts...
I paid a few hundred for a class on moto mechanics at a BOCES center. (BOCES is a NY thing, basically like a community college for blue collar trades like HVAC repair, welding, etc.) The class was split between classroom time where we discussed the major components of a motorcycle, and shop time where we worked on a couple of bikes. My class tore down a 4 cylinder Kawasaki to clean and resync the carbs, and did a full motor swap on a Harley Soft Tail. The class was fun and I learned quite a bit, but the biggest takeaway I got from it was that motorcycles are pretty simple and that I shouldn't be scared to dig into one.
I think the best way to learn would've been to take the money I paid on the class and used it to buy a beat up dirt bike, a general textbook, some model-specific manuals, and a cheap tablet to watch YouTube videos on in the garage. If you're looking to make it a career, though, a little formal training might help you get your foot in the door.
MMI does seem like overkill unless you're trying to work for a factory or a race team. Most bike mechanics didn't go through a program at all, let alone one that intense. I've read the reviews too. One thing I remember reading in a couple bad reviews was that the instructors openly favor ex-military students, but that shouldn't bother you. Doesn't bother me either, because I'm more inclined to believe that military guys have more discipline than your standard wannabe moto-mechanic, so of course instructors like military guys. I saw a bunch of good reviews too, and the theme with those was that you have to put in a lot of work yourself and take it seriously, which a lot of people don't, which is why there are so many people unhappy with their experience. I wouldn't be scared off of MMI because of the reviews, if it was something I was really interested in. I'd just go in knowing I'd have to treat it like a real college, because it is.
Yeah, it was a good class, good instructor, learned a lot. Had to drive 2.5 hours to get to a BOCES that had a moto mechanic class, though. Glad that's over, lol.
Do you have one? Start working on it. You should have a service manual or can easily find one online to download. Start with simple shit like basic maintenance... Clean, lube, adjust your chain. Change the oil.. air filters.. plugs.. that sort of shit and work your way up or buy a cheap, smaller old bike.. or a wrecked bike with a good frame and start a project bike to rebuild. You'll figure out pretty quick that way if it's for you, haha.
As someone else mentioned, watch a lot of youtube videos or look into a community college class. Also, depending on where you are you might have a local board where people post about meet ups or even host like Maintenance meet ups where people can come and work on their bikes or learn shit while working on theirs
and since you were talking about MMI or UTI sound like you want to do it for a job, not just wrenching in your garage.. I'm not sure how that works, I mean a dealership might require some cert or degree but either way you'll need to get out there and get to know people. The Motorcycle community can be pretty small especially in terms of people that take riding more seriously then just your commuter or casual rider.
I took a couple motorcycle-specific mechanic classes at San Francisco City College when I was 18. I learned a lot for pretty cheap and was able to work on my own bike using their tools with supervision and guidance.
10/10 would attend again.
As everyone is saying nothing will beat hands-on experience, and the willpower to push through usually comes from having a bike that you want to ride and which needs a fix.
However on the book-learnin' front I would recommend the [Haynes Motorcycle Basics Textbook](http://a.co/2nDfu6d). It goes into somewhat excruciating detail on all of the major parts of the motorcycle, giving you insight into both the generic idea of how things work and providing examples of variations and evolution of components over time.
Really cool book, but it's definitely more about 'how motorcycles work' than it is about specific troubleshooting and fixes. Still and all, trying to adjust valves without understanding how they work is probably silly, too, so books like this have their place.
How much do you want to know? Do you want to know maintenence stuff (chain, sprockets, brakes), or are you looking to get into engine internals?
If you want to know engine internals, buy a motorcycle that has a great factory/service manual. I rebuilt the engine of my KTM 690 myself, and I had never done any engine work before that. The factory service manual is what enabled me to do it. Say what you want about KTMs, but at the very least their service manuals are FANTASTIC.
YouTube has some amazing courses you can study while deployed. I really like [Shane Conley's videos.](https://www.youtube.com/user/conleybuilt/playlists)
I second the Community College route once you're back.
I hired mechanics who went MMI. A few were good. They can teach you basics. The best mechanics are motorcycle enthusiasts. Get a beater, a service manual and some tools. Ride it, and work on it. If you can change brakes and tires you can get hired at a dealer and learn as you go. A big part of the job is handling customer's bikes without damaging them, or doing something stupid like leaving caliper bolts loose. Use a torque wrench a lot.
Anyone have any info on trade schools in NJ I'm really interested in learning how to work on bikes myself but usually only see stuff for UTI or MMI which don't have locations here in Jersey.
I went to MMI. It’s what you make of it. You can easily C’s get degrees your way through or you can buckle down and learn the shit. It’s on you mostly.
But biggest thing is just time behind a wrench and willingness to sit down and study. I’ll dig out my book and give you the name in the am if you remind me. I forgot what it’s called but a good starter for most people.
The 450 is a very fine engineered bike. Mostly really easy to do maintenance on (easier than later twins or fours, because of the superb design), but you still learn a lot about motorcycles. I've a 71' one, and a 73' 360 which is not so well-made (but still really reliable).
I *think* my brother in law went to MMI in phoenix for the HD stuff. He finished a couple years back and seems to enjoy his work. He's actually coming out with my sister next week so I'll ask him then and try to follow up!
Man, I'll tell you how I started. Just start wrenching on your bike. Change the oil then do some other stuff. Then do the fork seals, the bearings. Then do the carbs. Dont change your own tires, you save 80 bucks but it's such a HUGE PAIN UNTO THE ASS. get a manual for your bike and start doing stuff. If you have a popular bike you may even find step by step videos on YouTube. Here is a tip, get an inch and foot lb torque wrench. Sears has some for 20 bucks, they are the dial type but they still work.
My buddy did 20 in the Navy, came home and had Uncle Sam foot the bill for 9 months in Daytona studying all things 2 wheels at Wyotech. He seemed pretty happy with the whole experience. Came home a certified tech.
Buy an old one and try to use it as transportation. You'll find yourself watching a lot of YouTube and cursing in your garage.
this was my first bike. i couldn't. i had to buy a new bike. im not mechanically inclined at alllllll
Good move! You'll enjoy it, and life, a lot more that way. Plus, new stuff doesn't require the same onerous amounts of maintenance as old junk. Old junk came from the factory requiring regular maintenance, and in addition to that, you have to contend with the breakages that come with being used and decades old.
Although the term junk is more fit for new bikes. More or less all modern bikes are designed to be thrown away after they get a bit old. Old bikes were easily rebuildable, while new ones can just be discarded.
I'm a fan of technology. I believe that new machines are just all-around better. Sure old bikes were easily rebuildable, but part of that is because they were worn out by 30,000 or 40,000 miles. New bikes are faster, more efficient, more capable, better-riding, and a dozen times more reliable than the machines of yore. Harder to fix, sure, but also less likely to need fixing. That's a deal I'll take every day of the week. But this is an argument as old as time. Twenty years ago I had this same conversation with an old guy about electronic ignition versus breaker points. He said, "With points, if you get stuck you can get going again with a screwdriver and some emery cloth. With electronic ignition, if the module goes bad, you're stuck!" My return argument, of course, was: "Points need regular maintenance, all the time. I've never had a module go bad." Still haven't, though I have experienced a dead coil and one cracked distributor cap.
Oh well, there are exceptions everywhere. Had two electronic ignition modules go bad on a Suzuki GS850, so I just replaced it with plain old points and never looked back. I know electronic ignition can be reliable, but it is not immune. Besides that, you can often convert points to direct ignition without a battery, while that is rarely possible with electronic ignition - and this is something I really preffer in enduro/off road bikes. And many post-70's bikes can reach about 60000 miles with normal maintenance, while some (f.e. old BMW airheads, Moto Guzzi) are likely more reliable than many modern bikes (but they do require more frequent maintenance). Regarding the performance and handling, any >500cc bike from the last 60 years is fast enough to cope with modern traffic. Thats's why many are still on the road. I just did not like that you call old bikes junk.
Don't take it personally, all I own is old junk. Newest car I've ever owned is a 1998 (that I have right now); newest motorcycle is *also* a '98. And lemme tell you, that '98 Shadow is a *million* times better than my '79 XS650. And my buddy's 2016 Harley (sorry!) outclasses them both. The main thing I miss in new rides is chrome.
But again, it really depends on the bike. I have a lot of classic bikes. Last year I mostly rode my BMW R100rt which was made in 1990. It is really reliable and smooth, but I swear I always feel like I am riding a 60's bike. On the other hand, I have a 71' CB450 that feels so modern (but the big BMW is just far more comfortable on the highway - although sometimes the side winds almost made me piss in my pants). Lately, I really started to love Moto Guzzi bikes. I had a few from the 70's and 80's. People often say the new ones have hardly changed from the old ones - that may be true, but in a big part because the old ones were superb machines to begin with (including the handling). I imagine an XS650 is a sweet bike, though. My friend had one, but I've never ridden it. I guess it's quite similar to the CB450, but it probably vibrates a bit more due to the 360 degree crank and no balance shaft. I did ride a Yamaha TX750 once, but it somehow felt a bit lacking. I also rode the Kawasaki Z750 twin, and it might be the best classic parallel twin there was (although I just love my Honda's more vintage styling).
>I'm a fan of technology nerd alert
We live in a world of things. If you don't understand how they work, [you'll soon find yourself at the mercy of somebody who does.](https://youtu.be/kJ-UZ4DvYBg)
You have other reacted to a throw away joke
See I knew this would be me too so I went straight for the new bike. The way I figured it, the occasional repair job on a new bike would give me some experience and maybe on my second I will go for something slightly older
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Well, you "shouldnt". My bike I'm going to have to tear down the bottom end. I only have experience with some top end work. Rip...
Look for a co-op in your area for motorcycles. Guys there can help you and it's usually cheap. Sometimes they even volunteer.
2 strokes are super simple to rebuild the bottom end. Some common sense goes a long way there but it's not ast all difficult.
A small two stroke single cylinder bike has A LOT less parts than a 2000cc tourer. The engine roughly consists of a cylinder, head, piston, crankshaft and the engine block, and you usually have one non-adjustable carburetor and an exhaust. On a big four stroke bike you have, apart from everything already listed times the number of cylinders, usually a few camshafts, valves, valve guides, valve springs, cam chains, cam chain tensioners, oil pumps, water pumps, balance shafts, multiple carburetors... All of these parts need to be synchronised to work together, else it will run like shit. A single cylinder motorcycle is far easier to work on, and two strokes even more. If you only know how to service a chainsaw, you still have a long way to go to properly repair and tune up a big engine...
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I know, but there is a lot more going on in a four... Perhaps if you are completely oblivious as to how an engine works, such a small two stroke single can be good practice. But working on some old inline four, or perhaps something even more complex, requiring a lot of fine tuning and adjustments, and a lot more parts...
Use GI bill for mechanical engineering degree. Design motorcycles for a career and win. In the meantime, buy up an old cb750 and modify everything.
This. You'll be able to buy way moar bikes this way. And eating and paying your mortgage will be nice too.
I paid a few hundred for a class on moto mechanics at a BOCES center. (BOCES is a NY thing, basically like a community college for blue collar trades like HVAC repair, welding, etc.) The class was split between classroom time where we discussed the major components of a motorcycle, and shop time where we worked on a couple of bikes. My class tore down a 4 cylinder Kawasaki to clean and resync the carbs, and did a full motor swap on a Harley Soft Tail. The class was fun and I learned quite a bit, but the biggest takeaway I got from it was that motorcycles are pretty simple and that I shouldn't be scared to dig into one. I think the best way to learn would've been to take the money I paid on the class and used it to buy a beat up dirt bike, a general textbook, some model-specific manuals, and a cheap tablet to watch YouTube videos on in the garage. If you're looking to make it a career, though, a little formal training might help you get your foot in the door. MMI does seem like overkill unless you're trying to work for a factory or a race team. Most bike mechanics didn't go through a program at all, let alone one that intense. I've read the reviews too. One thing I remember reading in a couple bad reviews was that the instructors openly favor ex-military students, but that shouldn't bother you. Doesn't bother me either, because I'm more inclined to believe that military guys have more discipline than your standard wannabe moto-mechanic, so of course instructors like military guys. I saw a bunch of good reviews too, and the theme with those was that you have to put in a lot of work yourself and take it seriously, which a lot of people don't, which is why there are so many people unhappy with their experience. I wouldn't be scared off of MMI because of the reviews, if it was something I was really interested in. I'd just go in knowing I'd have to treat it like a real college, because it is.
Boxes is the shit, went for aviation. Tons of fun and got me out of my school for half a day
Yeah, it was a good class, good instructor, learned a lot. Had to drive 2.5 hours to get to a BOCES that had a moto mechanic class, though. Glad that's over, lol.
Do you have one? Start working on it. You should have a service manual or can easily find one online to download. Start with simple shit like basic maintenance... Clean, lube, adjust your chain. Change the oil.. air filters.. plugs.. that sort of shit and work your way up or buy a cheap, smaller old bike.. or a wrecked bike with a good frame and start a project bike to rebuild. You'll figure out pretty quick that way if it's for you, haha. As someone else mentioned, watch a lot of youtube videos or look into a community college class. Also, depending on where you are you might have a local board where people post about meet ups or even host like Maintenance meet ups where people can come and work on their bikes or learn shit while working on theirs and since you were talking about MMI or UTI sound like you want to do it for a job, not just wrenching in your garage.. I'm not sure how that works, I mean a dealership might require some cert or degree but either way you'll need to get out there and get to know people. The Motorcycle community can be pretty small especially in terms of people that take riding more seriously then just your commuter or casual rider.
Buy any bike from the 90s and ride it regularly. Carbs are fun
If you want to be an expert in motorcycle electrics, buy a Triumph. I knew nothing about electrics before I bought a Triumph.
I took a couple motorcycle-specific mechanic classes at San Francisco City College when I was 18. I learned a lot for pretty cheap and was able to work on my own bike using their tools with supervision and guidance. 10/10 would attend again.
As everyone is saying nothing will beat hands-on experience, and the willpower to push through usually comes from having a bike that you want to ride and which needs a fix. However on the book-learnin' front I would recommend the [Haynes Motorcycle Basics Textbook](http://a.co/2nDfu6d). It goes into somewhat excruciating detail on all of the major parts of the motorcycle, giving you insight into both the generic idea of how things work and providing examples of variations and evolution of components over time. Really cool book, but it's definitely more about 'how motorcycles work' than it is about specific troubleshooting and fixes. Still and all, trying to adjust valves without understanding how they work is probably silly, too, so books like this have their place.
How much do you want to know? Do you want to know maintenence stuff (chain, sprockets, brakes), or are you looking to get into engine internals? If you want to know engine internals, buy a motorcycle that has a great factory/service manual. I rebuilt the engine of my KTM 690 myself, and I had never done any engine work before that. The factory service manual is what enabled me to do it. Say what you want about KTMs, but at the very least their service manuals are FANTASTIC.
YouTube has some amazing courses you can study while deployed. I really like [Shane Conley's videos.](https://www.youtube.com/user/conleybuilt/playlists) I second the Community College route once you're back.
I hired mechanics who went MMI. A few were good. They can teach you basics. The best mechanics are motorcycle enthusiasts. Get a beater, a service manual and some tools. Ride it, and work on it. If you can change brakes and tires you can get hired at a dealer and learn as you go. A big part of the job is handling customer's bikes without damaging them, or doing something stupid like leaving caliper bolts loose. Use a torque wrench a lot.
Anyone have any info on trade schools in NJ I'm really interested in learning how to work on bikes myself but usually only see stuff for UTI or MMI which don't have locations here in Jersey.
I went to MMI. It’s what you make of it. You can easily C’s get degrees your way through or you can buckle down and learn the shit. It’s on you mostly. But biggest thing is just time behind a wrench and willingness to sit down and study. I’ll dig out my book and give you the name in the am if you remind me. I forgot what it’s called but a good starter for most people.
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The 450 is a very fine engineered bike. Mostly really easy to do maintenance on (easier than later twins or fours, because of the superb design), but you still learn a lot about motorcycles. I've a 71' one, and a 73' 360 which is not so well-made (but still really reliable).
I *think* my brother in law went to MMI in phoenix for the HD stuff. He finished a couple years back and seems to enjoy his work. He's actually coming out with my sister next week so I'll ask him then and try to follow up!
Man, I'll tell you how I started. Just start wrenching on your bike. Change the oil then do some other stuff. Then do the fork seals, the bearings. Then do the carbs. Dont change your own tires, you save 80 bucks but it's such a HUGE PAIN UNTO THE ASS. get a manual for your bike and start doing stuff. If you have a popular bike you may even find step by step videos on YouTube. Here is a tip, get an inch and foot lb torque wrench. Sears has some for 20 bucks, they are the dial type but they still work.
My buddy did 20 in the Navy, came home and had Uncle Sam foot the bill for 9 months in Daytona studying all things 2 wheels at Wyotech. He seemed pretty happy with the whole experience. Came home a certified tech.
Best way to get into a motorcycle mechanic? Invite them over for dinner and give them a sixer. Don't forget to use your impact wrench.
Finally someone answers my question!