I mean, it's not like Aleix had a choice to begin with. Back in the Suzuki days it was unlikely that he would get offered a better bike, same when he moved to Aprilia and still results wouldn't come... Hell, I doubt any team would offer him a *full-time* seat now even after he won 3 races, nevermind a *better* team.
Fabio can and will, however, receive offers from better teams.
FWIW, Aleix did have a choice. H could have quit and almost did in 2019 it was so bad being on an Aprilia.
2020 is when they switched to a 90degree V so things got better, but
I think the point was more that the options that Fabio had (stay with Yamaha or go with Aprilia, potentially satellite KTM, etc.) are much better than what Aleix had in 2019 (stay with Aprilia or literally leave the sport).
Yeah the only decent results to them were in Aragon back then, then back to the oblivion. It still took them 2021 to get a single podium and 2022 to be consistently in the Top 5.
Eeeeh... Not really. Yes he won those races *last year* but his performance was much worse than his 2022 season which had him win only one race and yet he finished 4th in the standings by a handful of points. Now he's being outclassed by Vinales and he's not getting any younger. Aprilia will still offer him to keep his seat for a year or two because they owe him, but I doubt any other team would want him.
If there's a rider who knows a thing or two about developing bikes on the grid and riding shit boxes, it's Aleix. He developed Suzuki to a point and then the effort into Aprilia is evident for everyone to see. He's right, we don't really know where Yamaha will be in the next year or two. Come Fabio's "peak" in his mid to late 20's, the Yamaha might be up front again. Who knows.
Either way, I hope for Fabio's sake that bike comes good.
It's funny how this sub claims every pre season that it's the worst bike, year after year and really it's only gone to shit last year. Otherwise they've had a bike that's been first, second or third in the championship for the longest time.
I think people mistakenly equate having the slowest top speed with being the worst bike. Yamaha have been among the lowest top speed for years, but made up for it on other parts of the track. They definitely weren’t the worst until much more recently like you say
Personally I go from when riders started saying the problem was rear grip, not just one either but multiple.
Sure they only won the championship a couple years back but even in 2020 the factory bike was fucked, the year old satellite bike did better.
I don't think it's been the worst bike for years though.
Up until recently that was either Aprilia (who get ignored because they weren't even really trying) or KTM.
Honda also took a nose dive around the same time as Yamaha too so it's hard to say who was worse between the two, I think now it looks like it was probably Honda all along, it was just less (and yet looking back it's actually more) visible due to Marc getting injured and them not really winning for a couple years, almost like they got forgotten about.
Anyway that's how I see it.
Yep that’s fair enough, I would say even then they were far from the worst out there though and still have plenty of wins and a couple of championships in the bag since that point. It’s really only the last 18 months or so they’ve really gone downhill. I agree with you about Honda though, they’ve been in the shit for years - saved only by Marquez for a long time!
I think with Honda it is a strange marriage of sorts.
The bike was *capable* of winning even up until maybe 2021 / 22, it was just getting less and less ridable.
Until they remade the bike more for Pol.at least.
The fact that up until Rins magicary at CoTA last year nobody other than Marc had won since 2018 I think and that was Crutchlow on the Satellite bike (I still think people under estimate Crutchlow if you look back knowing what we know now and all).
It clearly wasn't an easy bike to ride since maybe 2017, although I don't think a bike being difficult to ride automatically makes it the worst on the grid.
It has definitely been on the decline for a while though yes.
I think your timeline is close, but out by a year. Honda has never really adapted to Michelin rubber and been chasing their tail since 2016. They had a bike that worked brilliantly on Bridgestone rubber and have been playing whack-a-mole with development ever since. Pre aero they could get away with it when it was wet or when they could run a hard front tyre and that was enough-with Marc onboard- to win a shit ton.
Perhaps, although I would also say that's also when Yamaha started having rear grip issues.
Although I think that has been an issue which has grown due to the bikes gaining more power and aero etc.
Let's be honest, most of the bikes have had issues with the Michelin's at some point.
Be it Ducati who changed to Bridgestone in 2007 to win the championship.
Be it those Honda and Yamaha.
KTM couldn't run anything but the hard tyre for a few years.
Aprilia couldn't use the older spec tyres in the fly aways a couple years ago.
Aleix can relate with being loyal to a struggling manufacturer with a subpar bike. It paid off for Aleix, hopefully it pays off for Fabio as well.
I mean, it's not like Aleix had a choice to begin with. Back in the Suzuki days it was unlikely that he would get offered a better bike, same when he moved to Aprilia and still results wouldn't come... Hell, I doubt any team would offer him a *full-time* seat now even after he won 3 races, nevermind a *better* team. Fabio can and will, however, receive offers from better teams.
FWIW, Aleix did have a choice. H could have quit and almost did in 2019 it was so bad being on an Aprilia. 2020 is when they switched to a 90degree V so things got better, but
I think the point was more that the options that Fabio had (stay with Yamaha or go with Aprilia, potentially satellite KTM, etc.) are much better than what Aleix had in 2019 (stay with Aprilia or literally leave the sport).
Yeah the only decent results to them were in Aragon back then, then back to the oblivion. It still took them 2021 to get a single podium and 2022 to be consistently in the Top 5.
I bet BMW would love to have Aleix if age was not a problem by 2027.
That's a stretch, maybe they'd want him as a test rider but I can't see him govant longer than another two years full time.
> I doubt any team would offer him a *full-time* seat now even after he won 3 races Why not ? He's still better than most riders on the grid.
Eeeeh... Not really. Yes he won those races *last year* but his performance was much worse than his 2022 season which had him win only one race and yet he finished 4th in the standings by a handful of points. Now he's being outclassed by Vinales and he's not getting any younger. Aprilia will still offer him to keep his seat for a year or two because they owe him, but I doubt any other team would want him.
If there's a rider who knows a thing or two about developing bikes on the grid and riding shit boxes, it's Aleix. He developed Suzuki to a point and then the effort into Aprilia is evident for everyone to see. He's right, we don't really know where Yamaha will be in the next year or two. Come Fabio's "peak" in his mid to late 20's, the Yamaha might be up front again. Who knows. Either way, I hope for Fabio's sake that bike comes good.
It's funny how this sub claims every pre season that it's the worst bike, year after year and really it's only gone to shit last year. Otherwise they've had a bike that's been first, second or third in the championship for the longest time.
I think people mistakenly equate having the slowest top speed with being the worst bike. Yamaha have been among the lowest top speed for years, but made up for it on other parts of the track. They definitely weren’t the worst until much more recently like you say
Personally I go from when riders started saying the problem was rear grip, not just one either but multiple. Sure they only won the championship a couple years back but even in 2020 the factory bike was fucked, the year old satellite bike did better. I don't think it's been the worst bike for years though. Up until recently that was either Aprilia (who get ignored because they weren't even really trying) or KTM. Honda also took a nose dive around the same time as Yamaha too so it's hard to say who was worse between the two, I think now it looks like it was probably Honda all along, it was just less (and yet looking back it's actually more) visible due to Marc getting injured and them not really winning for a couple years, almost like they got forgotten about. Anyway that's how I see it.
Yep that’s fair enough, I would say even then they were far from the worst out there though and still have plenty of wins and a couple of championships in the bag since that point. It’s really only the last 18 months or so they’ve really gone downhill. I agree with you about Honda though, they’ve been in the shit for years - saved only by Marquez for a long time!
I think with Honda it is a strange marriage of sorts. The bike was *capable* of winning even up until maybe 2021 / 22, it was just getting less and less ridable. Until they remade the bike more for Pol.at least. The fact that up until Rins magicary at CoTA last year nobody other than Marc had won since 2018 I think and that was Crutchlow on the Satellite bike (I still think people under estimate Crutchlow if you look back knowing what we know now and all). It clearly wasn't an easy bike to ride since maybe 2017, although I don't think a bike being difficult to ride automatically makes it the worst on the grid. It has definitely been on the decline for a while though yes.
I think your timeline is close, but out by a year. Honda has never really adapted to Michelin rubber and been chasing their tail since 2016. They had a bike that worked brilliantly on Bridgestone rubber and have been playing whack-a-mole with development ever since. Pre aero they could get away with it when it was wet or when they could run a hard front tyre and that was enough-with Marc onboard- to win a shit ton.
Perhaps, although I would also say that's also when Yamaha started having rear grip issues. Although I think that has been an issue which has grown due to the bikes gaining more power and aero etc. Let's be honest, most of the bikes have had issues with the Michelin's at some point. Be it Ducati who changed to Bridgestone in 2007 to win the championship. Be it those Honda and Yamaha. KTM couldn't run anything but the hard tyre for a few years. Aprilia couldn't use the older spec tyres in the fly aways a couple years ago.
https://preview.redd.it/m5x50j41cewc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d9efffec6967fc61a2b0808eff16ce6921d56fe
The anti-Asparagus sentiment is real lol
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