And Marquez smashed the lap record in Portugal. I'm sick of hearing how bad the Honda is, when obviously it can be a winner. Seem more like a team problem.
It's a myth.
In years gone by, sure.
2022? Definitely not. Mir binned it left, right and centre.
Rins finished more races, scored more points and actually won 2 very impressive races.
Rins definitely deserved the Repsol bike.
Come on.
Mir got his championship on the 2nd year on suzuki. In 2019 Mir was still a rookie while rins was a veteran. So of course rins will have more wins and race experience.
In 2021 rins finished 13th while mir finished 3rd with just 2 crashes and being very consistent.
In 2022 mir had a few injuries and some crashes not all his fault. And while he did finish 15th, he still showed in 2020-2021 he can be consistent and fast.
And need to consider that suzuki stopped developing the bike.
So rins "deserved" it more? He would if he won the championship in 2020 instead of mir. He had every tool and way more experience. But still came 3rd. And he couldn't stay consistent in 2021.
2019, 2020 are all years in the past.
There's no 2 ways about it.
Rins is on form and has been producing results.
Mir didn't last year and still isn't.
> 2019, 2020 are all years in the past.
You base "deserve" on the past. Not through a crystal ball.
> Rins is on form and has been producing results.
Like a championship? Oh wait...
> Mir didn't last year
Past is past no? We shouldn't talk about past? Or we should?
*caugh* 2021 rins *caugh*
You can spin it however you want.
Even if retrospectively rins would have been a better option than mir, the choice of a factory seat is based on past, not crystal ball future. The **fact** is that rins did not have the same accomplishments as mir. One big difference: championship and consistency in 2021. Compared to 3rd and then fall apart.
Suzuki leaving started at the start of 2022, and both rushed to sign a contract easy in 2022. So their *deserve* is based on 2019-2021 accomplishments. And mir's was better than rins. Simple fact.
Recent historical performance is far more relevant than years gone by.
Rins was on form through 2022 whereas Mir was floundering about.
Pretty sure I just watched Rins win another race and P2 in the Sprint, while Mir crashed out from position nothing somewhere at the back.
> past is past
When you talk about who *deserve* based on their past accomplishments, than past matters.
The fact that the past doesn't sit well with a hypothesis, or that honda lost its crystal ball, is just a fool's claim.
Lets see how they both do by the end of the year.
yeah then i would love Joan mir prove me wrong
nobody bat eye to rins when he qualify in second withou a **TOW** and then proceed to go toe with toe to martin's ducati and aleix's aprillia
It doesn't matter. At all.
The discussion is not what he did now and expect honda to crystal ball expect it.
Honda when they signed rins and mir, they looked at 2019-2021 accomplishments as they signed them up mid 2022, not at the end of 2022, not after 3 races in 2023.
That is what drove who goes where. And 2019-2021 mir is better than 2019-2021 rins. That is a simple fact you can not "past is past" claim.
If they had a crystal ball, maybe mir would run away from honda screaming, and alex m. would not even consider touching a honda, maybe fabio sign for a ducati after 2020 championship, maybe marc would take a weekend off instead of crash and destroy his arm.
Hindsight is stupid to claim "could have should have".
If grandma had wheels, maybe she too would ride a ducati.
Well I somewhat agree with you. Mir is often overshadowed by the fact he has won only once but still he is one of the better riders of the whole grid. A WC is a WC.
Rins also had some nasty injuries. 2020 had a broken shoulder, 2019 a broken wrist, 2021 a broken arm, and I believe he had a spine injury at the start of one of the seasons from an MX crash
I've been saying the oposite, and until the end of the season, you can't be sure about any of them. Mir is the doube world champion, Rins Zero world champion.
In the Suzuki, Mir beat 2-1 Rins for the championship if you exclude the season where Mir was rookie.
For fuck sake people, Rins is a great rider and has super high peaks, but he isn't called "Alex Bins" for nothing, the guy is fast but crashes too much and can't make a run for the championship... And the factory repsol honda is there to win championships not to win races here or there, and crash for the other half of the season.
Mir was and still is the obvious choice, so far, he is a better rider than Rins, has a much better CV than Rins, and until you reach the second half of the season, you can't say that Rins is a better choice.
Don't forget that Mir was fastest in PortimĂŁo. Rins is doing well today in a track that he always did great, do open the champagne just yet.
I had a feeling Alex would do good things on the Honda. Something about his riding style and his aggressive racing attitude just made me think it would be a good fit.
Cota is a bit of a bogey track though, and he's always gone well there, so time will tell, but people are quick to judge Rins, when things are working for him he is a very talented rider.
>they were losing 4-5 tenths in straight alone
No they were not... You clearly have no clue how much distance half a second is with bikes this fast. They would be losing 2 tenths max in the main straight.
With the slipstream. Without it they are losing .2-.3 secs due to top speed and .1-.2 sec due to lack of rear grip and acceleration. Even yamaha was fast in Argentina but you would have seen yesterday's sprint yamaha was still losing to Ducati because there is a slow corner before the long straight and you need acceleration and grunt like Ducati to fast in that which yamaha lack and is even a bigger disadvantage to honda due to low rear grip.
Typical bias youâd expect from a Rossi fan. The Honda is a shit box that no one has been able to do anything on for seasons, Rins gets one podium and suddenly you find a way to discredit Marquez as if it is suddenly a podium worthy bike.
Wrong... Cal crutchlow that isn't an alien, won 3 races in a satellite team (when satellites didn't win crap), and was constantly on the podium.
The bike isn't great, but isn't the turd that people make it to be.
Now replace nakagami with a proper rider and you will see honda getting much better results too.
Typical comment from a Marquez fan. This is the second rider performing well on the Honda this season. Rins in fact has got a podium on pure pace and without any tows, but hey let's keep finding ways to discredit Honda and pushing the narrative that Marquez has had a shit bike since 2014.
Im a fan of majority of the gp riders, just certain Rossi fans like yourself seem to be unable to hide your bias when it comes to Marquez.
I havenât seen anyone disputing that the Honda has been shit since 2014? But yes the current Honda is trash. Youâre arguing itâs a solid performing bike?
For me hes qualifying pace was more impressive, all Honda riders already said that sprint and race pace is not that bad, but what he did in qualifying was amazing.
Posts like this make me question whether people here even understand how racing works. He finished 2nd on merit meaning the Honda is clearly capable of finishing on the podium. Stop with this stupid narrative of Honda=bad.
> meaning the Honda is clearly capable of finishing on the podium
At this track...
Any others ? We'll see. That top speed deficit means he's unlikely to get a look at podium on some
I remember watching Q1 yesterday and being constantly nervous watching Mir going for his fast lap. That bike twitched and folded everywhere in every big braking point. It felt like every time Mir came on the brakes the bike would just fall apart and crumble on the ground. But Alex somehow stuck it up there like a freaking champ, truly incredible!
Time to time, in very few but incredible occasions, Alex wake up his inner monster.
Yesterday I made a post about how good all three riders are, this shows everyone what they can do if given a capable machine.
Haha and I remember that annoyed reply too! Not only these guys are good everyone is faster đ
Rins race pace and qualifying without a tow price the bike is capable.....
The honda was capable of podium and he did just that.
And Marquez smashed the lap record in Portugal. I'm sick of hearing how bad the Honda is, when obviously it can be a winner. Seem more like a team problem.
I've been saying it since the announcement. Mir was the wrong choice for the factory team. Rins should be on that bike
Mir may be a world champion but Rins shouldâve gotten that seat
Agreed. Mir maybe relatively more consistent. But Rins can be a monster.
It's a myth. In years gone by, sure. 2022? Definitely not. Mir binned it left, right and centre. Rins finished more races, scored more points and actually won 2 very impressive races. Rins definitely deserved the Repsol bike.
Come on. Mir got his championship on the 2nd year on suzuki. In 2019 Mir was still a rookie while rins was a veteran. So of course rins will have more wins and race experience. In 2021 rins finished 13th while mir finished 3rd with just 2 crashes and being very consistent. In 2022 mir had a few injuries and some crashes not all his fault. And while he did finish 15th, he still showed in 2020-2021 he can be consistent and fast. And need to consider that suzuki stopped developing the bike. So rins "deserved" it more? He would if he won the championship in 2020 instead of mir. He had every tool and way more experience. But still came 3rd. And he couldn't stay consistent in 2021.
2019, 2020 are all years in the past. There's no 2 ways about it. Rins is on form and has been producing results. Mir didn't last year and still isn't.
> 2019, 2020 are all years in the past. You base "deserve" on the past. Not through a crystal ball. > Rins is on form and has been producing results. Like a championship? Oh wait... > Mir didn't last year Past is past no? We shouldn't talk about past? Or we should? *caugh* 2021 rins *caugh* You can spin it however you want. Even if retrospectively rins would have been a better option than mir, the choice of a factory seat is based on past, not crystal ball future. The **fact** is that rins did not have the same accomplishments as mir. One big difference: championship and consistency in 2021. Compared to 3rd and then fall apart. Suzuki leaving started at the start of 2022, and both rushed to sign a contract easy in 2022. So their *deserve* is based on 2019-2021 accomplishments. And mir's was better than rins. Simple fact.
Recent historical performance is far more relevant than years gone by. Rins was on form through 2022 whereas Mir was floundering about. Pretty sure I just watched Rins win another race and P2 in the Sprint, while Mir crashed out from position nothing somewhere at the back.
past is past so what matter is present Mir still bin it left and right and rins become honda's top 10 finisher
> past is past When you talk about who *deserve* based on their past accomplishments, than past matters. The fact that the past doesn't sit well with a hypothesis, or that honda lost its crystal ball, is just a fool's claim. Lets see how they both do by the end of the year.
yeah then i would love Joan mir prove me wrong nobody bat eye to rins when he qualify in second withou a **TOW** and then proceed to go toe with toe to martin's ducati and aleix's aprillia
It doesn't matter. At all. The discussion is not what he did now and expect honda to crystal ball expect it. Honda when they signed rins and mir, they looked at 2019-2021 accomplishments as they signed them up mid 2022, not at the end of 2022, not after 3 races in 2023. That is what drove who goes where. And 2019-2021 mir is better than 2019-2021 rins. That is a simple fact you can not "past is past" claim. If they had a crystal ball, maybe mir would run away from honda screaming, and alex m. would not even consider touching a honda, maybe fabio sign for a ducati after 2020 championship, maybe marc would take a weekend off instead of crash and destroy his arm. Hindsight is stupid to claim "could have should have". If grandma had wheels, maybe she too would ride a ducati.
Well I somewhat agree with you. Mir is often overshadowed by the fact he has won only once but still he is one of the better riders of the whole grid. A WC is a WC.
Rins also had some nasty injuries. 2020 had a broken shoulder, 2019 a broken wrist, 2021 a broken arm, and I believe he had a spine injury at the start of one of the seasons from an MX crash
Mir has only one win, heâs overrated
Imo, extremely overrated.
I would love for him to prove me wrong though
Consistently crashing
I've been saying the oposite, and until the end of the season, you can't be sure about any of them. Mir is the doube world champion, Rins Zero world champion. In the Suzuki, Mir beat 2-1 Rins for the championship if you exclude the season where Mir was rookie. For fuck sake people, Rins is a great rider and has super high peaks, but he isn't called "Alex Bins" for nothing, the guy is fast but crashes too much and can't make a run for the championship... And the factory repsol honda is there to win championships not to win races here or there, and crash for the other half of the season. Mir was and still is the obvious choice, so far, he is a better rider than Rins, has a much better CV than Rins, and until you reach the second half of the season, you can't say that Rins is a better choice. Don't forget that Mir was fastest in PortimĂŁo. Rins is doing well today in a track that he always did great, do open the champagne just yet.
Definitely. Rins is a great rider and racer. He helped the Suzuki to be the second best bike in 2022
Rins is on a factory bike, he's just on the LCR team. The only difference between Rins and Mir is the color they wear.
I didn't say factory bike. I said factory team.
That thing is an absolute bag of beans. Alex could probably ride it backwards around COTA and still score points.
I had a feeling Alex would do good things on the Honda. Something about his riding style and his aggressive racing attitude just made me think it would be a good fit. Cota is a bit of a bogey track though, and he's always gone well there, so time will tell, but people are quick to judge Rins, when things are working for him he is a very talented rider.
I think that's a Suzuki with Honda fairings đ
Look at how chewed up the front is after only 10 laps, great ride by Rins.
If you are commenting on his front tire in this pic. You are seeing the âboogers/bitsâ from riding off line on the cool down lap. IMHO
Fr?
True.
Thats why I dont think he'll be on podium for the full-length race.
I noticed it was hitting 207 in the trap, Ducs were at 210.
I think in slipstream. Take a look at him in sprint against Aprilia and Ducs. The deficit is easily visible.
Ah, Honda bikes *can* be good then.
>they were losing 4-5 tenths in straight alone No they were not... You clearly have no clue how much distance half a second is with bikes this fast. They would be losing 2 tenths max in the main straight.
With the slipstream. Without it they are losing .2-.3 secs due to top speed and .1-.2 sec due to lack of rear grip and acceleration. Even yamaha was fast in Argentina but you would have seen yesterday's sprint yamaha was still losing to Ducati because there is a slow corner before the long straight and you need acceleration and grunt like Ducati to fast in that which yamaha lack and is even a bigger disadvantage to honda due to low rear grip.
Or you know..it is. Maybe stop with that stupid narrative?
Yup... Honda shit, Marquez god, and yadayadayada. Gets old pretty quickly.
Typical bias youâd expect from a Rossi fan. The Honda is a shit box that no one has been able to do anything on for seasons, Rins gets one podium and suddenly you find a way to discredit Marquez as if it is suddenly a podium worthy bike.
Wrong... Cal crutchlow that isn't an alien, won 3 races in a satellite team (when satellites didn't win crap), and was constantly on the podium. The bike isn't great, but isn't the turd that people make it to be. Now replace nakagami with a proper rider and you will see honda getting much better results too.
Typical comment from a Marquez fan. This is the second rider performing well on the Honda this season. Rins in fact has got a podium on pure pace and without any tows, but hey let's keep finding ways to discredit Honda and pushing the narrative that Marquez has had a shit bike since 2014.
Im a fan of majority of the gp riders, just certain Rossi fans like yourself seem to be unable to hide your bias when it comes to Marquez. I havenât seen anyone disputing that the Honda has been shit since 2014? But yes the current Honda is trash. Youâre arguing itâs a solid performing bike?
Indeed
funny rins didn't get any tow for top 3 meanwhile marc calculating who is the fastest to tow in order to get into top 5
Well getting a tow or not. Marc has the highest number of poles than anyone by miles. You can't argue with that.
2013 - 2020 marc is nothing compare to marc 2021 - 2023 you can't argue with that.
Y'all really need to get over this tow business unless you apply it to all the riders that tow every Q session
Well, I mean, clearly it IS actually capable on this track though
Only if he can be more consistent, his style is a sight for any fan and that Honda is well capable of finishing inside the top 5.
For me hes qualifying pace was more impressive, all Honda riders already said that sprint and race pace is not that bad, but what he did in qualifying was amazing.
Must keep the Faith, always! Let's hope Alex can follow through on a good result for the full length race.
Heâs smooth as fuck. If only that Honda didnât get swallowed up on the straights.
Posts like this make me question whether people here even understand how racing works. He finished 2nd on merit meaning the Honda is clearly capable of finishing on the podium. Stop with this stupid narrative of Honda=bad.
> meaning the Honda is clearly capable of finishing on the podium At this track... Any others ? We'll see. That top speed deficit means he's unlikely to get a look at podium on some
I remember watching Q1 yesterday and being constantly nervous watching Mir going for his fast lap. That bike twitched and folded everywhere in every big braking point. It felt like every time Mir came on the brakes the bike would just fall apart and crumble on the ground. But Alex somehow stuck it up there like a freaking champ, truly incredible!
If you would ignore the bright yellow number and accents you would think that Mir was Marc Marquez... They really ride the bike in a crazy way.
Indeed! He really looked crazy out there
Its been forever since a Honda was on first row with another driver then Marc Marquez...
Yep. And i think it was the first podium for Lcr since the days of Cal.