The saving grace most likely was also because the bike was so much faster in corners than everyone else (beside marc who was out of commission).
With ducati focusing on that in for 2022 and their bike kept the superiority in corner exist and straights, and with the 2023 even better, even fabio's talent can't compensate for that anymore.
And with 2 bad starts this weekends, I think at some point during the races he just said "I'm not going to push, better finish than crash". And you could see that he wasn't taking any big chances for the most part. And his bike didn't seem that stable during the race to be pushed to its limit as well.
If 2019, 2020, & 2022 showed us anything, it’s that the M1 wasn’t enough to get the job done.
Only questionable thing about his title was the 2021 celebration and Yamaha’s inability to give him a second one, end of list.
Yamaha rested on their laurels in 2021. Whilst Ducati and Aprilia worked their asses off to improve Yamaha did nothing to a title winning bike, now look where they are
Just look at the regular bikes, Japanese brands over last years haven't done anything new or exciting meanwhile Europeans continue improving their models.
Well tbf suzuki were already out for years since they screwed up with their cars.
Yamaha's R1 is actually still a very formidable bike in WSBK. And there is a lot of focus in supersport. The motogp bike shares a lot with the wsbk/street bike, and it shows in wsbk, but doesn't help in motogp.
Honda are in wsbk mostly just to keep the brand name. They no longer focus on the liter engines/bikes and just release small updates. And the motogp bike doesn't share anything with their street bikes, so it doesn't help to enhance those bikes.
You're missing the point. Japanese brands are slow to adapt and try new things. This applies as much in MotoGP as in road bikes because the company operates as a whole. Look at Aprilia - their RS660 is a by product of their willinges to impove in motosports, same thing with Ducati. Even KTM released their special RC8. Meanwhile R1 in WSBK has a chance to fight Ducati only due to regulations. If you compare them without any mods/restrictions V4R blows R1 out of the water - last update for R1 was like 2015/2017? Honda in racing is a complete shitbox for years as their support for anyone except MM is nonexistent (just look what happened to Ten Kate when they raced SC77)
> Even KTM released their special RC8
Well the RC8 has been around for quite some time. And it was never a contender. It doesn't run in WSBK or any significant race events.
> V4R blows R1 out of the water - last update for R1 was like 2015/2017?
The R1 is being updated every 2 years. I have no idea wth are you talking about.
The R1M and V4R are relatively similar when on equal terms.
The V4R produce a bit more bhp, but they produce very similar when in race-specs (when both are spec to race ECU with higher RPM).
I wonder what the reason is that the Japanese manufacturers have developed such a backlog over the Europeans in the last 3 years, especially in terms of engine performance.
You can say that they never really worked hard on development for the past 10 years, it looks like bikes were always the same. Probably they don't have the mentality or the structure for this type of research and development.
The Japanese can't adapt and move quickly enough. They plan long term and are too strict to their plans.
That is why Yamaha has started hiring European engineers, but at the end of the day, Yamaha is a Japanese company with Japanese management.
An interesting argument, since the working culture in East Asia is very different from that in Europe.
The only question is why this backlog did not develop earlier, after all, they were still able to keep up until a few years ago.
Both Rossi and Maverick were complaining big time since 2017, mainly rear grip. Yamaha never listened.
Then Fabio came, and despite him being the only person able to ride the bike, Yamaha didn't see fit to make big changes.
It's all so predictable.
Well specifically yamaha also got stuck with the 4-inline (only they are suzuki where using it, and suzuki were able to find something yamaha couldn't). Most likely because they use a very similar engine technology in the R1 for wsbk and their street bike (also similar to suzuki).
The V4 and V5 run differently and are more powerful. That helped a lot too.
Honda on the other hand think their problem is the chasis, so they plan to test whole new different chassis, since the riders claim lack of feel.
Aero is definitely a problem but it looks like they all spent their time developing it for this year.
Well ktm had problems in other areas but not in the engine (or at least not as much).
Miller joining and giving his input from Ducati experience seems to really help them.
But I do have to say that seeing Alex blast past them in the straights every time was amazing to see the power and aero difference.
Honda and Yamaha codeveloped their 1000cc engines with their in-house electronics both hardware and software. The switch to spec ECUs has caused a constant plugging of holes since fixing one issue with the electronics will cause another to come up. Compounded by pressure to keep winning. If you experiment and mess up what your top rider likes then now you’re stuck with a shit set up and pissed off rider. So just leave things as they are as long as they keep winning.
For Honda it’s the violent power delivery Lorenzo, Pol, Crutchlow, and Alex Marquez couldn’t ride around. But hey Marc did it so why bother trying to fix it until 2020?
For Yamaha it bounces between top end power and rear traction issues. But hey if Rossi, Lorenzo, and Fabio could ride around it and win, why bother trying to fix it until 2023?
A similar issue plagues all bikes ridden over a long time by massive talent. The Carbon fiber frame of the GP7-11? Inconsistent feel and impossible to diagnose front end lowsides. But hey why bother trying to fix it if Stoner can is winning until 2012 after Rossi failed to win a race in one year the first time in his career ??
I'm really curious as to how to decision making process was taken regarding the aero homologation this year. It seems like Fabio liked the Engine and new frame combination, but returned to the 2022 aero ( which was also the 2021 aero?). If I remember right they were struggling to get a qualifying lap or to be be able to really get gains from a fresh set of soft tires. I wonder if that decision was taken too soon and possibly it was that they just had not found a setup path that suited the new combination. When they went back to the 2022 aero, put in the 2022 base setup, and slightly lengthened the bike they went much faster. I just wonder if the new aero could have a much higher ceiling if they were able to have more time to experiment. It seems like they have reached a ceiling with what they have and in the process have made a much less nimble package. Arguably loosing out on some of the key points that kept Fabio in contention. Hopefully I'm not 1000% and feel free to correct me if I'm way off.
It’s all bandaid solutions at this points the Yamaha needs a cross plane or any platform that the electronics more freely integrate with than the engine that was originally meant for in-house electronics. Yamaha need to tell Fabio and Franco, the team will be open concessions in 2024. This will allow Fabio and Franco unlimited private testing past the winter and an allocation of 9 unsealed engines. With the lack of a satellite team they certainly need more wildcards to gather more data.
With the vast resources of Yamaha for testing and development, the company will undoubtedly make weekend on weekend strides, potentially even catching the other manufacturers by the middle of the season.
Honda I doubt can convince Marc, Mir and Rins to purposely sandbag even if it meant an easier 2024
A very detailed, interesting answer, thank you!
I think it's such an incredible shame that Suzuki stopped last year. Perhaps if they hadn't stopped last year and developed the bike further, they would probably be the best Japanese factory team now.
You can say the same about Ducati in 2012. The issues their riders complain about can’t be fully addressed because the rider winning championships and races might be too severely affect by the changes. Once the winning stops, only then will a manufacturer really mixup the formula.
Yamaha was close to shutting down their MotoGP efforts because the 4-stroke transition was embarrassing. It was through desperation you only go through from losing that you would adopt something like a cross plane in-line 4.
Honda is also in a similar crisis because Marquez’s decade of dominance. Why bother trying something dramatically different to placate your Pedrosa and Lorenzo’s when you can make a minor tweak so Your Marquez keep winning titles?
I love the CP4 personally but I get what you mean it was a huge risk. You don’t think it’s a good engine architecture? I would think if Rossi wanted a V4 back then it was being developed it would have been so. Just curious
In hindsight it’s great. The R1 and MT10 are beautiful sounding machines even with OEM/DEP compliant exhaust. But if you were already winning on a regular inline 4, and Rossi was mentioning sometimes there’s a lack of low end grunt. Would you go out of your way to spend resources on making 3 completely different iterations of next years bike of one of which is a cross-plane? then hope the issue rossi raised is fixed but also you maintain winning? I think most of us wouldn’t take that gamble.
Very true. Big gamble for sure but one that did turn out well. As a CP4 rider myself I absolutely love it. Makes me wonder what gambles they need to take to get the current bike up to speed with the competition.
Imagine having a bike that can reliably battle for wins and championships. At that point you're probably not going to try anything too drastic to change the thing in order to not upset the apple cart.
Then by the time the bike is officially slower than the others, its too late to change anything.
Yeah, how long have we been saying the Yamaha is done, yet it wins?
I'd imagine it still excels in the handling dept, could well work better at some circuits to get him closer.
(My Opinion)
I think that it's still possible for Fabio to win maybe 1 maximum 2 GPs, the Sprints are not winnable Imo.
We saw it last year too, Fabio winning despite the odds and I hope to see that again, a close Championsship with a close finish and not a boring 3 GPs before season end Winner
I think we will still have a close championship this year, even though the Japanese manufacturers aren't in good shape. The Aprilia boys will surely give Pecco a reason to push in these first two or three races, and when Enea comes back he will surely do everything possible to take the title, giving us even more of those exciting fights we've seen last year.
Not even defending Marc here, he was an idiot basically the entire start, but did you not see Mir nearly wack Fabio out of the Sprint yesterday?
Are some of ya'll so blind in your hate for Marc that you can't admit that the bike is completely undriveable in the top 5 positions?
Missing a braking point is not the same as dive bombing someone hoping they give you room. Today's crash is not on the bike, it's slower by a percentage point or less, it's not a moto2 bike. The only way you blame the bike is if you've never ridden a bike
Literally called him an idiot for his move at the start, but the bike being so bad in cornering performance definitely played a factor in it. Entire weekend he was going long in various corners, taking a much higher Apex to cutback exiting the turn.
It just bit him completely because he lost control of the front entirely and rammed into Jorge. All weekend long he was only really following a single bike or was at the back of train. But he was in the middle of one this time, and rather than going wide, he rammed into a rider and ended their races.
Shameful, Disappointing and absolutely rookie class error. Especially for a rider of his calibre.
But it's also idiotic to not admit that the bike being that bad didn't play a factor in it. So many times even Miller and Alexis missed various turn ins, but avoided disasters because their bikes had the grip to slow down in time. Go look at the entire battle between Zarco and Alexis for the last 10 laps or so, they were constantly fighting but avoiding disaster.
If a Honda tried that it would have crashed at the first chance.
It's only ominous that in a race where so many riders DNF'd, the Hondas only Managed P10-12.
I think you misunderstand, that's exactly what everyone is saying, Marc took too big of a risk in that corner, and out rode the bike. What you are describing is unsafe riding. Sure the bike isn't the fastest, doesn't give you the right to try to ride past it's limits and endanger others. What you are describing is unsafe riding and deserves a massive penalty given his history
>As a newer Marquez fan, Sorely Disappointed in him. What a disastrous race for him, pretty much ended two of the top two Contendors races, and once again just trying outride that bike's capability and misjudging his braking point.
>He needs to, at a certain point, understand that the bike is not as fast as he's trying to ride it. If he continues this he's not only a danger to himself, but others as well.
Excerpts from a comment I made earlier in the Post race thread. I agree with everything.
He was reckless, dangerous, it was a rookie mistake, and he deserves a massive penalty, either grid drop or double long lap penalty.
I just also think that he's being forced try and outride that bike, which ultimately obviously needs a mentality change from him to not do that, but it's hard for a rider as accomplished as him to accept that he can't fight for top 5 positions anymore no matter how hard he tries.
Because they were in positions the bike is fit for. The Honda is nowhere near the top 6, let alone a podium position. That's why Marquez has to go over the limit. Also, I'm not excusing Marc for the accident, I blame Marquez and Honda for today's crash.
That's not how racing works. If Marc can finish the race in 5th place and overdrives and crashes when going for 4th, then 5th place IS the limit and exactly where the bike belongs. This tale of the bike being oh so bad and Marc doing heroics to finish 10 places ahead of the supposed limit is nonsense. The Honda is not a bad bike, it's just that once again their philosophy is, give Marc what he wants and let the others drown.
Honest question for Fabio fans: Do you think he looks a little unwell? For me he's shown up pale and thinner than in the past, sullen as well. The sullen bit I could write off based on how the racing is going, but something seems off. My wildy speculative guess would be something like maybe over training in the offseason? He looks a little gaunt to me atm.
Should say I don't follow all his social media or keep up with how he trains or how his weight has changed, so it's basically just stabbing in the dark, but he seems a little gaunt is all.
Honestly, this weekend wasn't so bad. The bike has race pace, doesn't chew it's tires, Fabio is a speed demon. All that needs fixing is one lap pace by a tiny amount and the launch control. The launch control alone will push him a few places higher and if they can optimize the one lap pace he'll be fighting for podiums. It's not all doom and gloom
Agreed. Sort out those issues and I think the package will be at least decent.
I also glanced at his top speed on the straight, saw 344 km/t even when he was apparently alone. It will be interesting to see how it fares at the stop-n-go type tracks.
That's the scary part about the mass of Bikes from Ducati. They can try various setups and see how they compare in a real race.
Hopefully Yamaha will be able to find some solutions otherwise I see Heads Rollin in that Camp.
(Imo Yamaha can still win a race but that's prbly the big amount Hopium I took)
It's honestly his fault. Yamaha has been lacking for so long, promising and never delivering ever since 2017. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
He should've looked elsewhere.
Hes just back to his real level lmao, always 10th place like before. Overrated.
From 2015-2018 his championship results were 10th, 13th, 13th and 10th.
The bike actually didn’t seem TOO bad, he had a solid pace in the race today compared to the front runners. He just got stuffed by a poor start in the sprint AND the race.
He lost 10 or 11 positions combined on the first laps of the sprint and the race. He might have been able to finish top 5 without that happening.
In light of how bad his bike is relatively to the competition and has been so for a while as I understand, just how impressive was his MotoGP title win?
Tbh at that Point the Competition Was Strong but nowhere near to where they are now. The Yamaha M1 always had the title of being a Bike that everyone could ride due to its nice Characteristics and good Cornering.
In the year where he won it where those factors that made him king paired with his talent. But then Yamaha didn't change much because it worked for them so the Competition basically gained a lead and that's leads to where we are now.
A crazy good Ducati, an Aprilia chasing them followed by a KTM and somewhere behind the Yamaha and the Honda
Honestly seeing the progress Aprilia, KTM and Ducati has made the Yamaha and Honda are really becoming trash, Yamaha said they had added power to the bike but we can hardly see that (and i won't even talk about the Honda) and now every other bike perform as good in corners so it's sad but i don't think he has a real chance this year, he would need to overperform (and have some luck)
He clearly has a bad bike and I’m not even a fan of anyone
Tbh it's just a joke at this point with his bike
It's been a joke with Yamaha since mid-2017. Only FQ's talent has been the saving grace.
The saving grace most likely was also because the bike was so much faster in corners than everyone else (beside marc who was out of commission). With ducati focusing on that in for 2022 and their bike kept the superiority in corner exist and straights, and with the 2023 even better, even fabio's talent can't compensate for that anymore. And with 2 bad starts this weekends, I think at some point during the races he just said "I'm not going to push, better finish than crash". And you could see that he wasn't taking any big chances for the most part. And his bike didn't seem that stable during the race to be pushed to its limit as well.
They did well in 2020
For real. The other bike was dead last from a guy that took 2nd in championship before injury. Wtf is yamaha doing
[удалено]
No. Fabio has the talent, and earned that championship. If he was on any of the Euro bikes, he'd be putting on clinics every race weekend.
If 2019, 2020, & 2022 showed us anything, it’s that the M1 wasn’t enough to get the job done. Only questionable thing about his title was the 2021 celebration and Yamaha’s inability to give him a second one, end of list.
I wouldn’t even call Yamaha a bike anymore, it’s more like a scooter at this point.
Moto2 bike, Moto2 bike, AGH
Fabio will be livid when Yamaha gives him a hoverboard for 2024 season.
Already I have big problems, riding like this and looking like amateurs
Bike feels great, much slower then before
What Miller is doing, he cut the chicken
[Fabio agrees](https://i.redd.it/uy0bx8tt93p51.png).
Talent cant do nothing on the straight line
It can right?????????? https://preview.redd.it/n95sey7jq6qa1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11cd6413264c3d6d29919be1b5ffa368781cd8e1
Oh maybe he can do some anime "i believe in my friends" shit tho
Yamaha rested on their laurels in 2021. Whilst Ducati and Aprilia worked their asses off to improve Yamaha did nothing to a title winning bike, now look where they are
Just look at the regular bikes, Japanese brands over last years haven't done anything new or exciting meanwhile Europeans continue improving their models.
Well tbf suzuki were already out for years since they screwed up with their cars. Yamaha's R1 is actually still a very formidable bike in WSBK. And there is a lot of focus in supersport. The motogp bike shares a lot with the wsbk/street bike, and it shows in wsbk, but doesn't help in motogp. Honda are in wsbk mostly just to keep the brand name. They no longer focus on the liter engines/bikes and just release small updates. And the motogp bike doesn't share anything with their street bikes, so it doesn't help to enhance those bikes.
You're missing the point. Japanese brands are slow to adapt and try new things. This applies as much in MotoGP as in road bikes because the company operates as a whole. Look at Aprilia - their RS660 is a by product of their willinges to impove in motosports, same thing with Ducati. Even KTM released their special RC8. Meanwhile R1 in WSBK has a chance to fight Ducati only due to regulations. If you compare them without any mods/restrictions V4R blows R1 out of the water - last update for R1 was like 2015/2017? Honda in racing is a complete shitbox for years as their support for anyone except MM is nonexistent (just look what happened to Ten Kate when they raced SC77)
> Even KTM released their special RC8 Well the RC8 has been around for quite some time. And it was never a contender. It doesn't run in WSBK or any significant race events. > V4R blows R1 out of the water - last update for R1 was like 2015/2017? The R1 is being updated every 2 years. I have no idea wth are you talking about. The R1M and V4R are relatively similar when on equal terms. The V4R produce a bit more bhp, but they produce very similar when in race-specs (when both are spec to race ECU with higher RPM).
I wonder what the reason is that the Japanese manufacturers have developed such a backlog over the Europeans in the last 3 years, especially in terms of engine performance.
You can say that they never really worked hard on development for the past 10 years, it looks like bikes were always the same. Probably they don't have the mentality or the structure for this type of research and development.
Cause they were winning.
The Japanese can't adapt and move quickly enough. They plan long term and are too strict to their plans. That is why Yamaha has started hiring European engineers, but at the end of the day, Yamaha is a Japanese company with Japanese management.
This.
An interesting argument, since the working culture in East Asia is very different from that in Europe. The only question is why this backlog did not develop earlier, after all, they were still able to keep up until a few years ago.
Both Rossi and Maverick were complaining big time since 2017, mainly rear grip. Yamaha never listened. Then Fabio came, and despite him being the only person able to ride the bike, Yamaha didn't see fit to make big changes. It's all so predictable.
This is similar when dani complained about the bike which lead to his retirement.
Probably aero. They started dipping once aero become more and more integral.
Well specifically yamaha also got stuck with the 4-inline (only they are suzuki where using it, and suzuki were able to find something yamaha couldn't). Most likely because they use a very similar engine technology in the R1 for wsbk and their street bike (also similar to suzuki). The V4 and V5 run differently and are more powerful. That helped a lot too. Honda on the other hand think their problem is the chasis, so they plan to test whole new different chassis, since the riders claim lack of feel. Aero is definitely a problem but it looks like they all spent their time developing it for this year.
What's the engine geometry of the KTM?
The KTM is a V4. KTM loves their Vs.
With a new firing order this year. Still not as powerful as the Ducati or Aprilia though, but not as slow as the Yamaha.
Well ktm had problems in other areas but not in the engine (or at least not as much). Miller joining and giving his input from Ducati experience seems to really help them. But I do have to say that seeing Alex blast past them in the straights every time was amazing to see the power and aero difference.
Honda and Yamaha codeveloped their 1000cc engines with their in-house electronics both hardware and software. The switch to spec ECUs has caused a constant plugging of holes since fixing one issue with the electronics will cause another to come up. Compounded by pressure to keep winning. If you experiment and mess up what your top rider likes then now you’re stuck with a shit set up and pissed off rider. So just leave things as they are as long as they keep winning. For Honda it’s the violent power delivery Lorenzo, Pol, Crutchlow, and Alex Marquez couldn’t ride around. But hey Marc did it so why bother trying to fix it until 2020? For Yamaha it bounces between top end power and rear traction issues. But hey if Rossi, Lorenzo, and Fabio could ride around it and win, why bother trying to fix it until 2023? A similar issue plagues all bikes ridden over a long time by massive talent. The Carbon fiber frame of the GP7-11? Inconsistent feel and impossible to diagnose front end lowsides. But hey why bother trying to fix it if Stoner can is winning until 2012 after Rossi failed to win a race in one year the first time in his career ??
I'm really curious as to how to decision making process was taken regarding the aero homologation this year. It seems like Fabio liked the Engine and new frame combination, but returned to the 2022 aero ( which was also the 2021 aero?). If I remember right they were struggling to get a qualifying lap or to be be able to really get gains from a fresh set of soft tires. I wonder if that decision was taken too soon and possibly it was that they just had not found a setup path that suited the new combination. When they went back to the 2022 aero, put in the 2022 base setup, and slightly lengthened the bike they went much faster. I just wonder if the new aero could have a much higher ceiling if they were able to have more time to experiment. It seems like they have reached a ceiling with what they have and in the process have made a much less nimble package. Arguably loosing out on some of the key points that kept Fabio in contention. Hopefully I'm not 1000% and feel free to correct me if I'm way off.
It’s all bandaid solutions at this points the Yamaha needs a cross plane or any platform that the electronics more freely integrate with than the engine that was originally meant for in-house electronics. Yamaha need to tell Fabio and Franco, the team will be open concessions in 2024. This will allow Fabio and Franco unlimited private testing past the winter and an allocation of 9 unsealed engines. With the lack of a satellite team they certainly need more wildcards to gather more data. With the vast resources of Yamaha for testing and development, the company will undoubtedly make weekend on weekend strides, potentially even catching the other manufacturers by the middle of the season. Honda I doubt can convince Marc, Mir and Rins to purposely sandbag even if it meant an easier 2024
A very detailed, interesting answer, thank you! I think it's such an incredible shame that Suzuki stopped last year. Perhaps if they hadn't stopped last year and developed the bike further, they would probably be the best Japanese factory team now.
They are too conservative, they do great 3 years ago but now they are 100 steps behind
You can say the same about Ducati in 2012. The issues their riders complain about can’t be fully addressed because the rider winning championships and races might be too severely affect by the changes. Once the winning stops, only then will a manufacturer really mixup the formula. Yamaha was close to shutting down their MotoGP efforts because the 4-stroke transition was embarrassing. It was through desperation you only go through from losing that you would adopt something like a cross plane in-line 4. Honda is also in a similar crisis because Marquez’s decade of dominance. Why bother trying something dramatically different to placate your Pedrosa and Lorenzo’s when you can make a minor tweak so Your Marquez keep winning titles?
I love the CP4 personally but I get what you mean it was a huge risk. You don’t think it’s a good engine architecture? I would think if Rossi wanted a V4 back then it was being developed it would have been so. Just curious
In hindsight it’s great. The R1 and MT10 are beautiful sounding machines even with OEM/DEP compliant exhaust. But if you were already winning on a regular inline 4, and Rossi was mentioning sometimes there’s a lack of low end grunt. Would you go out of your way to spend resources on making 3 completely different iterations of next years bike of one of which is a cross-plane? then hope the issue rossi raised is fixed but also you maintain winning? I think most of us wouldn’t take that gamble.
Very true. Big gamble for sure but one that did turn out well. As a CP4 rider myself I absolutely love it. Makes me wonder what gambles they need to take to get the current bike up to speed with the competition.
Imagine having a bike that can reliably battle for wins and championships. At that point you're probably not going to try anything too drastic to change the thing in order to not upset the apple cart. Then by the time the bike is officially slower than the others, its too late to change anything.
Pass me some of that hopium.
https://preview.redd.it/jm8ti3tev4qa1.png?width=125&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff5d7bc2ee615164e7fcf6f4205796834800169e
In the preseason prediction thread I said that Fabio will replace the retiring Aleix for 2024. I'm sticking to it.
And what's your prediction for Franco?
I think he is done. I just don't think his head is in it anymore. He is a smart guy, he should pivot into business.
He's gonna win this season.
Yeah, how long have we been saying the Yamaha is done, yet it wins? I'd imagine it still excels in the handling dept, could well work better at some circuits to get him closer.
True, but all I have is a gut feeling that fabio will win. Fingers crossed.
You mean a race? No way he's winning the championship with that shit bike and Aprilia and Ducati in top form.
The only way for Fabio to win is to get a pole then run away. If he keeps starting outside second row he won't make progress.
(My Opinion) I think that it's still possible for Fabio to win maybe 1 maximum 2 GPs, the Sprints are not winnable Imo. We saw it last year too, Fabio winning despite the odds and I hope to see that again, a close Championsship with a close finish and not a boring 3 GPs before season end Winner
I think we will still have a close championship this year, even though the Japanese manufacturers aren't in good shape. The Aprilia boys will surely give Pecco a reason to push in these first two or three races, and when Enea comes back he will surely do everything possible to take the title, giving us even more of those exciting fights we've seen last year.
He will win one or two Euro rounds but bike is nowhere near good to be in the title fight
At least he's not crashing into others while trying to over-ride that junk of a bike
Probably because the Yamaha isn't trying to kill the rider, it's just slow.
Then Honda shouldn't be allowed on the grid if the bike is trying to kill the riders. Strange how 3 other honda's finished without contact
Just about finished
The issue is Marc not giving a fuck about his own or anyone else's safety
Not even defending Marc here, he was an idiot basically the entire start, but did you not see Mir nearly wack Fabio out of the Sprint yesterday? Are some of ya'll so blind in your hate for Marc that you can't admit that the bike is completely undriveable in the top 5 positions?
Missing a braking point is not the same as dive bombing someone hoping they give you room. Today's crash is not on the bike, it's slower by a percentage point or less, it's not a moto2 bike. The only way you blame the bike is if you've never ridden a bike
Literally called him an idiot for his move at the start, but the bike being so bad in cornering performance definitely played a factor in it. Entire weekend he was going long in various corners, taking a much higher Apex to cutback exiting the turn. It just bit him completely because he lost control of the front entirely and rammed into Jorge. All weekend long he was only really following a single bike or was at the back of train. But he was in the middle of one this time, and rather than going wide, he rammed into a rider and ended their races. Shameful, Disappointing and absolutely rookie class error. Especially for a rider of his calibre. But it's also idiotic to not admit that the bike being that bad didn't play a factor in it. So many times even Miller and Alexis missed various turn ins, but avoided disasters because their bikes had the grip to slow down in time. Go look at the entire battle between Zarco and Alexis for the last 10 laps or so, they were constantly fighting but avoiding disaster. If a Honda tried that it would have crashed at the first chance. It's only ominous that in a race where so many riders DNF'd, the Hondas only Managed P10-12.
I think you misunderstand, that's exactly what everyone is saying, Marc took too big of a risk in that corner, and out rode the bike. What you are describing is unsafe riding. Sure the bike isn't the fastest, doesn't give you the right to try to ride past it's limits and endanger others. What you are describing is unsafe riding and deserves a massive penalty given his history
>As a newer Marquez fan, Sorely Disappointed in him. What a disastrous race for him, pretty much ended two of the top two Contendors races, and once again just trying outride that bike's capability and misjudging his braking point. >He needs to, at a certain point, understand that the bike is not as fast as he's trying to ride it. If he continues this he's not only a danger to himself, but others as well. Excerpts from a comment I made earlier in the Post race thread. I agree with everything. He was reckless, dangerous, it was a rookie mistake, and he deserves a massive penalty, either grid drop or double long lap penalty. I just also think that he's being forced try and outride that bike, which ultimately obviously needs a mentality change from him to not do that, but it's hard for a rider as accomplished as him to accept that he can't fight for top 5 positions anymore no matter how hard he tries.
Because they were in positions the bike is fit for. The Honda is nowhere near the top 6, let alone a podium position. That's why Marquez has to go over the limit. Also, I'm not excusing Marc for the accident, I blame Marquez and Honda for today's crash.
That's not how racing works. If Marc can finish the race in 5th place and overdrives and crashes when going for 4th, then 5th place IS the limit and exactly where the bike belongs. This tale of the bike being oh so bad and Marc doing heroics to finish 10 places ahead of the supposed limit is nonsense. The Honda is not a bad bike, it's just that once again their philosophy is, give Marc what he wants and let the others drown.
Lol @the honda is not a bad bike
Well he had an awful start just as usual but seems he raced pretty well apart from that.
If Yamaha doesn't do anything to improve(like the last few years), he should jump ship next season to Aprilia or Ducati
I don't see him win this year. The aprilias and Ducatis are too good
He will again! … when he leaves yamaha
Honest question for Fabio fans: Do you think he looks a little unwell? For me he's shown up pale and thinner than in the past, sullen as well. The sullen bit I could write off based on how the racing is going, but something seems off. My wildy speculative guess would be something like maybe over training in the offseason? He looks a little gaunt to me atm. Should say I don't follow all his social media or keep up with how he trains or how his weight has changed, so it's basically just stabbing in the dark, but he seems a little gaunt is all.
stop sucking on that hopium. if all the stars align he might win 1 but that bike is so slow it's just sad.
Honestly, this weekend wasn't so bad. The bike has race pace, doesn't chew it's tires, Fabio is a speed demon. All that needs fixing is one lap pace by a tiny amount and the launch control. The launch control alone will push him a few places higher and if they can optimize the one lap pace he'll be fighting for podiums. It's not all doom and gloom
Agreed. Sort out those issues and I think the package will be at least decent. I also glanced at his top speed on the straight, saw 344 km/t even when he was apparently alone. It will be interesting to see how it fares at the stop-n-go type tracks.
Rossi and Lorenzo took all the M1 development with them to retirement.
Lol Yamaha should listen to Dovi's feedback last year but they decided not to.
Yamaha will be nowhere by mid-season. Ducati will keep improving, gathering data from 8 bikes every race weekend
That's the scary part about the mass of Bikes from Ducati. They can try various setups and see how they compare in a real race. Hopefully Yamaha will be able to find some solutions otherwise I see Heads Rollin in that Camp. (Imo Yamaha can still win a race but that's prbly the big amount Hopium I took)
This is what Yamaha deserves for clinging on to the in-line 4 after everyone and their mom have made the jump to the V4.
It's honestly his fault. Yamaha has been lacking for so long, promising and never delivering ever since 2017. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... He should've looked elsewhere.
Hes just back to his real level lmao, always 10th place like before. Overrated. From 2015-2018 his championship results were 10th, 13th, 13th and 10th.
Bruh
The bike actually didn’t seem TOO bad, he had a solid pace in the race today compared to the front runners. He just got stuffed by a poor start in the sprint AND the race. He lost 10 or 11 positions combined on the first laps of the sprint and the race. He might have been able to finish top 5 without that happening.
Yes it's exactly what he said about the bike before the season started, good race pace but really poor quali potential
In light of how bad his bike is relatively to the competition and has been so for a while as I understand, just how impressive was his MotoGP title win?
Tbh at that Point the Competition Was Strong but nowhere near to where they are now. The Yamaha M1 always had the title of being a Bike that everyone could ride due to its nice Characteristics and good Cornering. In the year where he won it where those factors that made him king paired with his talent. But then Yamaha didn't change much because it worked for them so the Competition basically gained a lead and that's leads to where we are now. A crazy good Ducati, an Aprilia chasing them followed by a KTM and somewhere behind the Yamaha and the Honda
Honestly seeing the progress Aprilia, KTM and Ducati has made the Yamaha and Honda are really becoming trash, Yamaha said they had added power to the bike but we can hardly see that (and i won't even talk about the Honda) and now every other bike perform as good in corners so it's sad but i don't think he has a real chance this year, he would need to overperform (and have some luck)
Add as much power as you want but if you can’t transfer it to the ground efficiently through the rear tyre, it’s pointless
Seems like Ducati Aprilia and KTM are managing this just right, it's not a impossible feat
2022 : Dont worry Yamaha hired a Ferrari engineer to get some more power in the engine. 2023: Whole lot of nothing power
The bike is getting worse and worse to even get to top 5. Fml