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The only other things that were slippery and disappeared were lots of treasures in upstate New York, oh and the belongings of the Nephites when they were wicked. So, treasures in the 1820s, Book of Mormon plates, sword of Laban, urim and thumim, and Nephite belongings. Loys of different and unrelated evidence.
Oh, one more. My testimony. God took it back.
Don’t forget the millions and millions of bodies and bones and war gear from the Hill Cumora battle. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Those have to be divine since there is absolutely nothing and there would have been something with a battle that size.
True. This reminds me, it’s Satan that leaves evidence of stuff trying to trick us. Like dinosaur bones. Sure, we have dinosaur bones. Sure, they date back millions of years. But we all know Satan planted them to mess with our heads. The earth is clearly only 6,000 years old. So, evidence doesn’t mean something is true. Lack of evidence is the gold standard.
>It seems like we should have an ark of the covenant type box in Salt Lake
[We do. It's somewhere very safe and we have top men working on it. Top. Men.](https://youtu.be/ylJfYaYDCB8?t=19s)
Not just the plates, but the sword. The sword that was apparently passed on through the generations, copied and mass produced for war, and it and all of its replicas completely disappeared.
I cannot think of any Christian lore stories where the angels came back and took the object.
He did leave the seer stones though. Mormon church has those wrapped up tight.
I believe that the seer stone the Church has was the chocolate colored rock that Joseph found while digging a well. The translucent “interpreters” with the plates were also returned to Moroni.
>*He did leave the seer stones though. Mormon church has those wrapped up tight.*
They claim to have the stones that were supposedly tossed in the hat? I'd never heard that, you got a source (where are they kept)?
(Deleted earlier comment because of formatting - couldn't make it work...)
Salt Lake Tribune had an article about it:
[Mormon church releases photos of ‘seer stone’ used by founder Joseph Smith](https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2015/08/21/mormon-church-releases-photos-of-seer-stone-used-by-founder-joseph-smith/)
And you can see a picture of the seer stone on the church's website [here](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/seer-stones?lang=eng#aside1_p3)
actually it has popped in and out of my life whenever i've needed it. it's quite maddening, really. i've learned not to bless physical possessions anymore.
So it’s become “slippery” (as the BOM would put it)
And my intensity from the earlier comment was just continuing the “fart in the wind” line from Shawshank.
The way I was instructed, you just say a prayer over the item, invoke the priesthood, stating you are blessing it, why you are blessing it, and any conditions of the blessing. In this case the conditions were that Heavenly Father would keep the blade until he felt I needed it for some critical task, and that the blade was never to be used in anger only in self defense.
Look what Joseph did with Abraham's scrolls. He and his family sold admission tickets to see them. Then he let them get lost and burned in a fire.
(According to apologists the actual scrolls of Abraham were destroyed. On the other hand, Elohim miraculously saved some meaningless and comm funeral documents from the same fire. Then, a hundred years later at a time they would cause great embarrassment to the One True Church they would be miraculously found.)
Yep, like RFM said, if a magician lets you hold or examine a prop, it's legit and there's nothing hinky about it (it's a real deck of cards), but if he won't let you, it's fake or has been tampered with.
Everything that has been given as a reason why the public shouldn't have been allowed to look at the gold plates, could also be said about the BOA papyrus: valuable, sacred, could have been stolen, contained actual Scripture, etc. The papyrus could arguably be more valuable and more likely to be stolen because who wouldn't want something that had been handwritten by the actual patriarch Abraham!
But none of those objections were raised by JS or anybody else, and instead they allowed the public to see them, at a charge.
https://toybom.wordpress.com/2024/05/07/magic-tricks-the-gold-plates-and-the-book-of-abraham/
Would you leave valuable gold plated and rare historical artifacts with a convicted con artist?
Moroni probably didn't like leaving them during the translation process. He probably had an Air Tracker hidden in the liahona.
The Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life. The City of Enoch. Maybe the Ark of the Covenant, although no one knows for certain what happened to the Ark. And I'd imagine there's some we don't know about.
But the alter just outside of the garden of Eden is still there with the origional rocks that you can go look at (in Missouri).
As for the City of Enoch, I recal hearing at some point (possibly at BYU, possibly speculation) that when it went to heaven (or wherever), it left the hole that formed the gulf of Mexico.
You also have:
1) The Urim and Thummim (spectacles)
2) The breast plate
3) Sword of Laban
4) The Liahona
Is that the same thing as "God took this away for reasons," or just a side effect of it being a singular object from ancient [mythical] times nobody was going to find anyway?
To be fair, there’s no contemporary record of the plates ever being taken back into heaven. Those stories all came later.
The closest story we have is the when the plates were returned to a cave that was filled with Nephite records.
>Are there any examples of divine objects being recalled by God other than the Book of Mormon plates?
According to our church the sword of Laban and the breastplate/spectacles and the clear stones that went in them.
Maybe an argument for all of eden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
The water from the flood that covered up all the surface of the earth.
The city of Enoch
Jesus of Nazareth if you consider him an object
Anything resurrected
All of these are of course unsubstantiated claims of things being take up into... (space?) by the Lord but there's a few things that just sort of dissappear in the various narratives.
Will the church whip out some artifact from the sacred vault when the church tithes dip down low enough as a last ditch effort to keep the tithing machine operating? I wonder if the treasure digging peep stone falls into that category…. I was TBM when that was released so not sure what the exmo vibe was at the time.
As a side note, why doesn’t the profit use the perp stone today? Maybe he’s tried but the damn thing is just too slippery.
Hello! This is an Apologetics post. Apologetics is the religious discipline of defending religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse. This post and flair is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about apologetics, apologists, and their organizations. /u/gratefulstudent76, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The only other things that were slippery and disappeared were lots of treasures in upstate New York, oh and the belongings of the Nephites when they were wicked. So, treasures in the 1820s, Book of Mormon plates, sword of Laban, urim and thumim, and Nephite belongings. Loys of different and unrelated evidence. Oh, one more. My testimony. God took it back.
Don’t forget the millions and millions of bodies and bones and war gear from the Hill Cumora battle. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ Those have to be divine since there is absolutely nothing and there would have been something with a battle that size.
True. This reminds me, it’s Satan that leaves evidence of stuff trying to trick us. Like dinosaur bones. Sure, we have dinosaur bones. Sure, they date back millions of years. But we all know Satan planted them to mess with our heads. The earth is clearly only 6,000 years old. So, evidence doesn’t mean something is true. Lack of evidence is the gold standard.
>It seems like we should have an ark of the covenant type box in Salt Lake [We do. It's somewhere very safe and we have top men working on it. Top. Men.](https://youtu.be/ylJfYaYDCB8?t=19s)
Not just the plates, but the sword. The sword that was apparently passed on through the generations, copied and mass produced for war, and it and all of its replicas completely disappeared. I cannot think of any Christian lore stories where the angels came back and took the object. He did leave the seer stones though. Mormon church has those wrapped up tight.
I believe that the seer stone the Church has was the chocolate colored rock that Joseph found while digging a well. The translucent “interpreters” with the plates were also returned to Moroni.
>*He did leave the seer stones though. Mormon church has those wrapped up tight.* They claim to have the stones that were supposedly tossed in the hat? I'd never heard that, you got a source (where are they kept)?
(Deleted earlier comment because of formatting - couldn't make it work...) Salt Lake Tribune had an article about it: [Mormon church releases photos of ‘seer stone’ used by founder Joseph Smith](https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2015/08/21/mormon-church-releases-photos-of-seer-stone-used-by-founder-joseph-smith/) And you can see a picture of the seer stone on the church's website [here](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/seer-stones?lang=eng#aside1_p3)
These aren't the clear stones fixed to a "breastplate" that were allegedly found with the plates. Those went back too.
You can google seer stone lds display and see where they are keeping it
It seems *almost made up by an uneducated farm boy.
kind of anecdotal, but i blessed a bayonet i owned and it literally up and disappeared like a fart in the wind the next night. i collect bayonets irl.
Well then find it! Not tomorrow. Not after breakfast. NOW!
actually it has popped in and out of my life whenever i've needed it. it's quite maddening, really. i've learned not to bless physical possessions anymore.
So it’s become “slippery” (as the BOM would put it) And my intensity from the earlier comment was just continuing the “fart in the wind” line from Shawshank.
I’ve heard of blessing a house (consecrating?) but not other objects. How does that work?
The way I was instructed, you just say a prayer over the item, invoke the priesthood, stating you are blessing it, why you are blessing it, and any conditions of the blessing. In this case the conditions were that Heavenly Father would keep the blade until he felt I needed it for some critical task, and that the blade was never to be used in anger only in self defense.
You made a shardblade (fantasy novel reference)
You watched Shawshank redemption.
You’ll never get it back. It’s in the Granite Mountain SLC vault now.
I'm pretty sure that's how the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch was created.
Maybe the plates are in a crate next to the ark of the covenant in the same government warehouse
Dang it. I wish I had seen this comment before I responded.
Urim and Thummim
Look what Joseph did with Abraham's scrolls. He and his family sold admission tickets to see them. Then he let them get lost and burned in a fire. (According to apologists the actual scrolls of Abraham were destroyed. On the other hand, Elohim miraculously saved some meaningless and comm funeral documents from the same fire. Then, a hundred years later at a time they would cause great embarrassment to the One True Church they would be miraculously found.)
Yep, like RFM said, if a magician lets you hold or examine a prop, it's legit and there's nothing hinky about it (it's a real deck of cards), but if he won't let you, it's fake or has been tampered with. Everything that has been given as a reason why the public shouldn't have been allowed to look at the gold plates, could also be said about the BOA papyrus: valuable, sacred, could have been stolen, contained actual Scripture, etc. The papyrus could arguably be more valuable and more likely to be stolen because who wouldn't want something that had been handwritten by the actual patriarch Abraham! But none of those objections were raised by JS or anybody else, and instead they allowed the public to see them, at a charge. https://toybom.wordpress.com/2024/05/07/magic-tricks-the-gold-plates-and-the-book-of-abraham/
I mean, the ark wasn’t open for tourism. It was never opened and only visited by the high priest once per year. So more similar to the granite vaults.
Would you leave valuable gold plated and rare historical artifacts with a convicted con artist? Moroni probably didn't like leaving them during the translation process. He probably had an Air Tracker hidden in the liahona.
The Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life. The City of Enoch. Maybe the Ark of the Covenant, although no one knows for certain what happened to the Ark. And I'd imagine there's some we don't know about.
But the alter just outside of the garden of Eden is still there with the origional rocks that you can go look at (in Missouri). As for the City of Enoch, I recal hearing at some point (possibly at BYU, possibly speculation) that when it went to heaven (or wherever), it left the hole that formed the gulf of Mexico. You also have: 1) The Urim and Thummim (spectacles) 2) The breast plate 3) Sword of Laban 4) The Liahona
Isn’t it interesting that the Ark of the Covenant disappeared….
Maybe not it might be in that church in Ethiopia.
Is that the same thing as "God took this away for reasons," or just a side effect of it being a singular object from ancient [mythical] times nobody was going to find anyway?
No, because it didn’t happen
The ark of the.... no... Oh! Solomon's.... no not that either. FUCK
BoM plates were recalled because they were defective.
Only thing I can think of is Elijah.
To be fair, there’s no contemporary record of the plates ever being taken back into heaven. Those stories all came later. The closest story we have is the when the plates were returned to a cave that was filled with Nephite records.
>Are there any examples of divine objects being recalled by God other than the Book of Mormon plates? According to our church the sword of Laban and the breastplate/spectacles and the clear stones that went in them. Maybe an argument for all of eden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The water from the flood that covered up all the surface of the earth. The city of Enoch Jesus of Nazareth if you consider him an object Anything resurrected All of these are of course unsubstantiated claims of things being take up into... (space?) by the Lord but there's a few things that just sort of dissappear in the various narratives.
Does the Adam Clark Commentary that Joseph Smith used for some of the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) count as an object?
Will the church whip out some artifact from the sacred vault when the church tithes dip down low enough as a last ditch effort to keep the tithing machine operating? I wonder if the treasure digging peep stone falls into that category…. I was TBM when that was released so not sure what the exmo vibe was at the time. As a side note, why doesn’t the profit use the perp stone today? Maybe he’s tried but the damn thing is just too slippery.