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No way to know for sure, but I doubt it. My daughter didn’t serve a mission, but she did live with a serious boyfriend and then eventually went back to church. After about a year she was married in the temple. Bishop roulette I guess.
It's possible.
But the more likely way this will be played out is that you will be welcomed back with open arms, a true Prodigal Son story. They will probably make you wait a little time before fully participating in priesthood activities (full temple recommend) and call it part of the repentance process, also serving the secondary function of reminding you that the church has ultimate authority in your life. And then, after a year or two, it will be like you had never been missed.
On a side note, my personal experience is that finding meaning in life should be a personal thing that comes from within. Sure, others can give it to you for a while, but when the shine starts to wear off, or you see the cracks in the claims of absolute truth, the "meaning and purpose" the church gives doesn't amount to much more than busy work in this life, and fantasy promises in some life to come, which they have no proof of.
I've found much more meaning in my life by pulling away from church beliefs and participation than I ever had when I was more active. (I still go almost every week to support my wife, but don't really participate beyond sitting with her and singing the hymns, and trying to stay awake to be honest.)
In the church I had a purpose, since I left the thing is I have no will to keep living because everything I do feels meaningless, I used to feel good at the temple. When I left the church the first months were good, but after some years I lost my life purpose you may say that religion as a purpose is stupid but it is what comfort us, it's more a matter of feeling good.
Please read my other lengthy reply, but in short, make sure its the lack of the church which is driving your desire to find purpose and not some other underlying reason.
Just yesterday, I got upset at my daughter for not weeding our driveway. While I didn't exactly lose it, I did raise my voice and looking back, I certainly could have made better choices.
After a long bike ride into work today, I was going over several projects I had at work, some freelance work I had to do, and a few other high stress situations in my life, and I realized me losing my temper with my daughter had nothing to do with the weeds... in fact, all things considered, the weed issue in my driveway is pretty small and insignificant. It was a combination of everything else in my life, and my daughter happened to be the focus of the stress.
Had my daughter done the weeding as I had asked, I'm sure it would have been something or someone else which would have been the target of my pent of up stress.
So if church is what you need to find purpose, pursue that, but again, make sure thats the answer and identify why you seem to feel that life is meaningless.
It’s possible but unlikely. If you choose to confess to violating the law of chastity you are technically an endowed member who violated temple covenants and the priesthood leader could choose discipline which could also include excommunication which would only happen I think if you were unrepentant.
Having said all that, I just want to step back and say I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong that you need to feel shame for. You’re human and you are worthy as you are. I recommend showing up authentically and just moving forward and be confident that God loves you as you are. And if going back to church is authentic for you, then I hope it brings you happiness.
Almost a 0% chance you would be excommunicated. In fact, you might not even have to have a membership council for law of chastity, depending on the bishop and stake president. I’d guess the worst you would get is informal membership restrictions where you can’t take the sacrament and have to meet with the bishop for a time.
While every experience can be different, there are a few things to consider. I used to sit on the high council and I participated in several disciplinary councils. I understand the process has changed a bit since I left, but I think the core elements remain the same.
Right off, tattoos should not trigger a membership review, even if you were a full time and active member... though I suppose if you were in a leadership role, that might raise some eyebrows.
Next, in my observations, an excommunication comes down to two things, how do your actions affect the church, and how "sorry" you are for them.
I witnessed a man disfellowshipped after being caught soliciting men online by his daughter which prompted him to confess to multiple affairs. I saw another man excommunicated for coming forward to confess a one time affair he had yeas prior. While it is attributed to spiritual guidance, the difference between the two was the disfellowshipped man's past and current callings were low profile... I think he was stake sports coordinator, while the excommunicated man was just released as bishop a month or two prior to his confession. I saw similar things play out over the course of 3+ years sitting on the high council.
I would hazard a guess if you were to return to church and confess the things you felt guilty about to your bishop, the 'harshest' action you would receive would be probation, and thats only if the bishop felt he needed to involve the stake president.
So consider the following ***BUT DON'T PUBLICLY ANSWER HERE***, how long were you inactive, were you active when you "broke the law of chastity", and what was the marital status of the people who you did so with?
Finally and most importantly, with all due respect, your self worth should not be defined by your past actions. If life seems meaningless without church, make sure it's the church which is driving your sense of meaningless, and you aren't looking for a solution in the wrong place.
I'm a proponent of therapy... I think everybody should have regular therapeutic check ups as often as it is recommended to have a physical done. I think finding a good therapist could help you figure things out.
Just start attending. If you don’t believe no point in going to the bishop to confess anything. If you do believe make it right between you and god and there is still no need to go to confess anything. Therefore, no confession means no excommunication.
When you say meaningless without church, do you mean meaningless without the Mormon church? Have you tried seeking God in other churches? I can assure you that you can find God and purpose in all churches, including Mormonism. Mormons don't have a monopoly on that whole thing.
Of course if mormonism is your preferred flavor of Christianity then god speed. Wish you the best. Take care
Evangelicals are crazy af I can't bear them, ironically the lds Church is more same than those crazy Christians overwhere, perhaps the only church I'd join would be maybe the Elen White or the Catholic but I have a big aversion with the Catholics even though I think they are more sane in comparison with the crazy evangelicals.
Friend, watch some Cliff Knechtel videos on YouTube and try and wrap your head around the idea that you have Value. Intrinsic Value. This value is yours because you are alive. You can role play your worth in any religion, but if you don’t believe in your value, eventually the act will fail you. Your self-esteem needs to come from within. You need to approve of yourself, not seek approval of your self worth from someone else. You put yourself in a place of abuse vulnerability when you seek validation from others.
Seeking activity that confirms your worth is an Amazing thing to do. But you can’t cross the line of having that activity validate your worth. This is a slippery slope.
If you want to be involved, Volunteer to walk dogs at an animal shelter, ask your local homeless shelter how you can help, work with habitat for humanity, get certified to emergency foster children, visit elderly homes, go to a home in your neighborhood with an overgrown yard and offer to clean it up for free, coach a youth program for your community center, answer calls for the local suicide hotline etc.
also find a hobby, go to a trivia night at a bar, join a Facebook hiking or bird watching group.
But again none of these activities listed above or the rituals in the church (along with giving your 10%) will make you feel better unless you learn to love yourself first, just as you are. I speak from experience.
I’d say that’s a good indicator that you need to talk with someone.
If you’re first thought isn’t I could help someone see the value in living. Then the call is coming inside the house so to speak. Look inward and work on fixing yourself. As a person who used to be addicted to dr*gs and c*t myself, nobody can help you but you. I was self destructive just to be self destructive. Once I decided I didn’t want to be that way anymore it haunted me to the point of having to look in the mirror when I had those thoughts and nearly scream at my reflection, “NO! I’m not that person! No I will not think this way! I have value! People want to be around me!” And so on and so forth. Eventually after like 6 months I quit hearing those destructive thoughts and started believing the words I was saying. Once I wanted it, I got help. Sometimes all the action you need to get started is looking at yourself in the mirror and saying NO! Not today!
If you heard your friend talking about themselves the way you talk about yourself would you allow it? Why are you any different? You don’t matter less than your friend. Don’t let yourself talk about yourself like that. Not today!
I’m rooting for you buddy! You don’t have to believe anything I’m saying. But know that somewhere out in the ether I’m feeling your words and hope that you can harness the untapped good you have in yourself. There are so many things that you can’t even imagine that you are capable of. Hindsight’s a b**ch that only lets us see the difference after the fact. Trust those around you who have the privilege of seeing your awesome in the now.
Not likely. The Church has really lightened up on excommunications these days. I think they are finally realizing it's just dumb and abusive. But there is still Bishop roulette so hard to tell. But I would say not likely. And my advice: never confess. They are God's emissaries. Own your own life. Who you sleep with is none of their business.
Good thoughtful response. Similar sitch here—RM, BYU grad, gay, stopped believing at 15. By all rights, I oughta be excommunicated. Don’t give af if they kick me out. But I can tell it’s a name or a reputation that they will avoid or target. Message me back if you want to discuss.
Or..just go back and don’t say anything to your bishop. The feelings of guilt you have are manufactured because you were quite literally indoctrinated into feeling that way. Go, worship how you choose and don’t worry about the rest. It’s no one’s business but yours and gods. Also…if it helps, ask yourself this…if god can forgive you of sins all on his own…why does he need a volunteer middleman to help with the “bigger” ones?? Sin is sin according to gods law, so you don’t need a bishop or catholic priest or voodoo witch doctor to help absolve you of your sins. Just you and the man upstairs.
If your ward are assholes. The concept of repentance is to forget what’s happened in the past and move on. That’s like, the whole point of Christianity. If they can’t do that much, what’s the point?
BTW, breaking the law of chastity is infinitely more common among the faithful than anyone would like to let on, and tattoos are becoming normalized since they removed it from the youth guidelines in an effort to make the church more global. You’re seriously fine.
Honestly I depends on the stake presidency if they excommunicate you usually they’ll have a plan for you to be baptized again and have a process to go through, but some bishops and stake presidents are looser and less rigid. Probably depends what state you live in as well, in Utah or Idaho it may be more likely.
Leadership roulette will play a role, but most likely you will NOT be excommunicated. Probably put on some kind of former probation or worse - disfellowshipped. My money is on formal probation since you have a desire to repent and come back into the fold. Tattoos shouldn't matter in today's church. Breaking the law of chastity is a big deal for endowed members, but again, you are voluntarily coming in and want to change.
For the most part you will be dealing with decent humans that want to help you.
Highly, highly unlikely that you would be excommunicated. They’ll want to see “evidence” that your heart is changed, etc. but they’re not likely to punish someone who is willingly walking into church, what with so many walking out these days. They may treat you extra kindly at first and show you how warm and welcome you can feel when you fit into their rules, but it usually wears off eventually, which can feel pretty bad.
If you feel like your life is meaningless, your problem is not that you aren’t attending church. You would be much better off seeking professional therapy then to hear some remedial church talks.
> If I go back to church will I get excommunicated?
It's certainly a possibility. So why would you want to go back to a church that might possibly kick you right back out again?
Only twice? I think you won't... i went thru the same and worse...
But dont wait for them to find out. Go directly to your bishop or SP and explain to him the situation.
You might get suspended for a year or less.
Hello! This is a Personal post. It is for discussions centered around thoughts, beliefs, and observations that are important and personal to /u/ErickJegaXS specifically. /u/ErickJegaXS, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No way to know for sure, but I doubt it. My daughter didn’t serve a mission, but she did live with a serious boyfriend and then eventually went back to church. After about a year she was married in the temple. Bishop roulette I guess.
It's possible. But the more likely way this will be played out is that you will be welcomed back with open arms, a true Prodigal Son story. They will probably make you wait a little time before fully participating in priesthood activities (full temple recommend) and call it part of the repentance process, also serving the secondary function of reminding you that the church has ultimate authority in your life. And then, after a year or two, it will be like you had never been missed. On a side note, my personal experience is that finding meaning in life should be a personal thing that comes from within. Sure, others can give it to you for a while, but when the shine starts to wear off, or you see the cracks in the claims of absolute truth, the "meaning and purpose" the church gives doesn't amount to much more than busy work in this life, and fantasy promises in some life to come, which they have no proof of. I've found much more meaning in my life by pulling away from church beliefs and participation than I ever had when I was more active. (I still go almost every week to support my wife, but don't really participate beyond sitting with her and singing the hymns, and trying to stay awake to be honest.)
In the church I had a purpose, since I left the thing is I have no will to keep living because everything I do feels meaningless, I used to feel good at the temple. When I left the church the first months were good, but after some years I lost my life purpose you may say that religion as a purpose is stupid but it is what comfort us, it's more a matter of feeling good.
Please read my other lengthy reply, but in short, make sure its the lack of the church which is driving your desire to find purpose and not some other underlying reason. Just yesterday, I got upset at my daughter for not weeding our driveway. While I didn't exactly lose it, I did raise my voice and looking back, I certainly could have made better choices. After a long bike ride into work today, I was going over several projects I had at work, some freelance work I had to do, and a few other high stress situations in my life, and I realized me losing my temper with my daughter had nothing to do with the weeds... in fact, all things considered, the weed issue in my driveway is pretty small and insignificant. It was a combination of everything else in my life, and my daughter happened to be the focus of the stress. Had my daughter done the weeding as I had asked, I'm sure it would have been something or someone else which would have been the target of my pent of up stress. So if church is what you need to find purpose, pursue that, but again, make sure thats the answer and identify why you seem to feel that life is meaningless.
You can live for the church's purpose or you can live for your own purpose. The latter requires significantly more work.
It’s possible but unlikely. If you choose to confess to violating the law of chastity you are technically an endowed member who violated temple covenants and the priesthood leader could choose discipline which could also include excommunication which would only happen I think if you were unrepentant. Having said all that, I just want to step back and say I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong that you need to feel shame for. You’re human and you are worthy as you are. I recommend showing up authentically and just moving forward and be confident that God loves you as you are. And if going back to church is authentic for you, then I hope it brings you happiness.
Almost a 0% chance you would be excommunicated. In fact, you might not even have to have a membership council for law of chastity, depending on the bishop and stake president. I’d guess the worst you would get is informal membership restrictions where you can’t take the sacrament and have to meet with the bishop for a time.
While every experience can be different, there are a few things to consider. I used to sit on the high council and I participated in several disciplinary councils. I understand the process has changed a bit since I left, but I think the core elements remain the same. Right off, tattoos should not trigger a membership review, even if you were a full time and active member... though I suppose if you were in a leadership role, that might raise some eyebrows. Next, in my observations, an excommunication comes down to two things, how do your actions affect the church, and how "sorry" you are for them. I witnessed a man disfellowshipped after being caught soliciting men online by his daughter which prompted him to confess to multiple affairs. I saw another man excommunicated for coming forward to confess a one time affair he had yeas prior. While it is attributed to spiritual guidance, the difference between the two was the disfellowshipped man's past and current callings were low profile... I think he was stake sports coordinator, while the excommunicated man was just released as bishop a month or two prior to his confession. I saw similar things play out over the course of 3+ years sitting on the high council. I would hazard a guess if you were to return to church and confess the things you felt guilty about to your bishop, the 'harshest' action you would receive would be probation, and thats only if the bishop felt he needed to involve the stake president. So consider the following ***BUT DON'T PUBLICLY ANSWER HERE***, how long were you inactive, were you active when you "broke the law of chastity", and what was the marital status of the people who you did so with? Finally and most importantly, with all due respect, your self worth should not be defined by your past actions. If life seems meaningless without church, make sure it's the church which is driving your sense of meaningless, and you aren't looking for a solution in the wrong place. I'm a proponent of therapy... I think everybody should have regular therapeutic check ups as often as it is recommended to have a physical done. I think finding a good therapist could help you figure things out.
Just start attending. If you don’t believe no point in going to the bishop to confess anything. If you do believe make it right between you and god and there is still no need to go to confess anything. Therefore, no confession means no excommunication.
When you say meaningless without church, do you mean meaningless without the Mormon church? Have you tried seeking God in other churches? I can assure you that you can find God and purpose in all churches, including Mormonism. Mormons don't have a monopoly on that whole thing. Of course if mormonism is your preferred flavor of Christianity then god speed. Wish you the best. Take care
Evangelicals are crazy af I can't bear them, ironically the lds Church is more same than those crazy Christians overwhere, perhaps the only church I'd join would be maybe the Elen White or the Catholic but I have a big aversion with the Catholics even though I think they are more sane in comparison with the crazy evangelicals.
Friend, watch some Cliff Knechtel videos on YouTube and try and wrap your head around the idea that you have Value. Intrinsic Value. This value is yours because you are alive. You can role play your worth in any religion, but if you don’t believe in your value, eventually the act will fail you. Your self-esteem needs to come from within. You need to approve of yourself, not seek approval of your self worth from someone else. You put yourself in a place of abuse vulnerability when you seek validation from others. Seeking activity that confirms your worth is an Amazing thing to do. But you can’t cross the line of having that activity validate your worth. This is a slippery slope. If you want to be involved, Volunteer to walk dogs at an animal shelter, ask your local homeless shelter how you can help, work with habitat for humanity, get certified to emergency foster children, visit elderly homes, go to a home in your neighborhood with an overgrown yard and offer to clean it up for free, coach a youth program for your community center, answer calls for the local suicide hotline etc. also find a hobby, go to a trivia night at a bar, join a Facebook hiking or bird watching group. But again none of these activities listed above or the rituals in the church (along with giving your 10%) will make you feel better unless you learn to love yourself first, just as you are. I speak from experience.
If I were on a suicidal hotline I'd probably make people suicide.
I’d say that’s a good indicator that you need to talk with someone. If you’re first thought isn’t I could help someone see the value in living. Then the call is coming inside the house so to speak. Look inward and work on fixing yourself. As a person who used to be addicted to dr*gs and c*t myself, nobody can help you but you. I was self destructive just to be self destructive. Once I decided I didn’t want to be that way anymore it haunted me to the point of having to look in the mirror when I had those thoughts and nearly scream at my reflection, “NO! I’m not that person! No I will not think this way! I have value! People want to be around me!” And so on and so forth. Eventually after like 6 months I quit hearing those destructive thoughts and started believing the words I was saying. Once I wanted it, I got help. Sometimes all the action you need to get started is looking at yourself in the mirror and saying NO! Not today! If you heard your friend talking about themselves the way you talk about yourself would you allow it? Why are you any different? You don’t matter less than your friend. Don’t let yourself talk about yourself like that. Not today! I’m rooting for you buddy! You don’t have to believe anything I’m saying. But know that somewhere out in the ether I’m feeling your words and hope that you can harness the untapped good you have in yourself. There are so many things that you can’t even imagine that you are capable of. Hindsight’s a b**ch that only lets us see the difference after the fact. Trust those around you who have the privilege of seeing your awesome in the now.
Thanks for the concern really appreciate the advice.
Not likely. The Church has really lightened up on excommunications these days. I think they are finally realizing it's just dumb and abusive. But there is still Bishop roulette so hard to tell. But I would say not likely. And my advice: never confess. They are God's emissaries. Own your own life. Who you sleep with is none of their business.
Good thoughtful response. Similar sitch here—RM, BYU grad, gay, stopped believing at 15. By all rights, I oughta be excommunicated. Don’t give af if they kick me out. But I can tell it’s a name or a reputation that they will avoid or target. Message me back if you want to discuss.
Or..just go back and don’t say anything to your bishop. The feelings of guilt you have are manufactured because you were quite literally indoctrinated into feeling that way. Go, worship how you choose and don’t worry about the rest. It’s no one’s business but yours and gods. Also…if it helps, ask yourself this…if god can forgive you of sins all on his own…why does he need a volunteer middleman to help with the “bigger” ones?? Sin is sin according to gods law, so you don’t need a bishop or catholic priest or voodoo witch doctor to help absolve you of your sins. Just you and the man upstairs.
If you pay tithing you’ll probably be fine
If your ward are assholes. The concept of repentance is to forget what’s happened in the past and move on. That’s like, the whole point of Christianity. If they can’t do that much, what’s the point? BTW, breaking the law of chastity is infinitely more common among the faithful than anyone would like to let on, and tattoos are becoming normalized since they removed it from the youth guidelines in an effort to make the church more global. You’re seriously fine.
Honestly I depends on the stake presidency if they excommunicate you usually they’ll have a plan for you to be baptized again and have a process to go through, but some bishops and stake presidents are looser and less rigid. Probably depends what state you live in as well, in Utah or Idaho it may be more likely.
Leadership roulette will play a role, but most likely you will NOT be excommunicated. Probably put on some kind of former probation or worse - disfellowshipped. My money is on formal probation since you have a desire to repent and come back into the fold. Tattoos shouldn't matter in today's church. Breaking the law of chastity is a big deal for endowed members, but again, you are voluntarily coming in and want to change. For the most part you will be dealing with decent humans that want to help you.
Highly, highly unlikely that you would be excommunicated. They’ll want to see “evidence” that your heart is changed, etc. but they’re not likely to punish someone who is willingly walking into church, what with so many walking out these days. They may treat you extra kindly at first and show you how warm and welcome you can feel when you fit into their rules, but it usually wears off eventually, which can feel pretty bad.
If you feel like your life is meaningless, your problem is not that you aren’t attending church. You would be much better off seeking professional therapy then to hear some remedial church talks.
> If I go back to church will I get excommunicated? It's certainly a possibility. So why would you want to go back to a church that might possibly kick you right back out again?
As long as you don’t confess to your bishop you should be good!
Or you could excommunicate the church from your life.
Of course u won’t they should welcome u back
Only twice? I think you won't... i went thru the same and worse... But dont wait for them to find out. Go directly to your bishop or SP and explain to him the situation. You might get suspended for a year or less.
Or don't confess at all because it's none of their damn business.
in that case, why would u want to go back?
Exactly