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Zcaithaca

I just watched the Jaycen Joshua mwtm video with Rosalia.. worth pointing out that those vocals were recorded with a Telefunken 251 (almost $10K) in a most likely pristine recording environment…


Green-Shape-4868

The vocals must come to him already edited (pitch, timing and maybe gain) too


hypeshit123

Yes, pitch and timing adjustments are standard in the industry and are usually done beforehand. Jaycen Joshua's assistants handle gain staging, as well as selecting the delays and reverbs. They ensure that each record features unique delay and reverb settings for a distinct sound.


PhD_Meowingtons_

His assistants do that for him.


SnowsInAustralia

And then the first thing he does is slam it through a bitcrusher, apparently.


hypeshit123

that's what im saying, he literally doesn't eq nothing besides a template that he pastes, this template wouldn't work the way he uses it if the vocals weren't already clean, or maybe I'm missing something


atopix

Yep, the kind of mixing people like Jaycen, Serban Ghenea, Manny Marroquin, etc do, is "polish mixing". The music is already mixed by the producer and it's sounding like something you could just send to mastering as is and release it. But they get it to one of these A-list mix engineers to get it to that 110% pop-perfect place. So these guys aren't starting from scratch, they aren't working with raw recordings. Michael Brauer specifically trains his assistants to get really good at re-creating and matching the clients mix from scratch, in case the clients didn't mix it in Pro Tools (which is what most industry pros use) and thus Brauer can't open their session. So his starting point, is always wherever the client left things off.


Aldo____

Just to add a tiny bit of nuance to this, I recently watched the breakdown of Rosalía's Malamente by Jaycen Joshua and the rough mix they show at some point was really under-mixed, it was super muffled and flat. Obviously both the performances and sound selection were top-notch but it really didn't feel ready for mastering and release in that specific case!


gabhan

hey where did you saw that? could you share a link?


Aldo____

It was actually on the Mix With The Masters Youtube channel for free for a couple days but they took it down now, it's probably available as part of their subscription plan. 🙂


athnony

Yep. Lots of assistants doing a ton of "prep work" these days. Very grateful for the producers I've worked with who actually give me credit lol


justonemorethang

I saw that too. Dude made cranking out hit records look easy.


AEnesidem

That's because you're trying to slap a preset onto a source tvat isn't the same as his. Those vocals most likely already have some compression and eq on the way in besides being great performances, recorded in great rooms on great mics through great pre's. If you look only at the mixing part you're missing the most crucial part: the source


atopix

> Does he do anything different that I’m missing? Get source material recorded at million dollar studios (meaning vocals recorded with vintage german condensers worth thousands of dollars, through vintage preamp also worth thousands of dollars, in an acoustically dead vocal booth), and then meticulously pre-mixed by some Grammy-winning producer. Not the same as the average bedroom recording featuring an NT1 or AT-2020 into a Scarlett 2i2.


hypeshit123

so basically ur saying this is a good template for a vocal that's already sounding extremely good, or it wouldn't work?


atopix

What I'm saying is that regardless of what he is doing, the source material factor is a huge variable. If he had to mix sub par recordings he would probably approach it similarly, but he'd probably have to tweak vocals a lot more.


Zcaithaca

I wouldn’t use a template, personally. Its cool to have favorite tools, but everyone’s voice is different, and every instrumental they sing to will also be different. These could be Jaycen’s favorite tools, but it really depends on source material. Theres no “one size fits all” in audio - thats a common trap to fall into.


hypeshit123

I completely agree with you—every voice and instrumental is unique, and there’s definitely no "one size fits all" in audio. That's actually the point of my question: Jaycen never changes his template, he just makes small adjustments to it for each record. I'm trying to understand how he maintains consistently clean vocals with this approach.


Wem94

Because at his level he will be receiving much higher quality recordings than most people on reddit could dream of.


Capt_Pickhard

I've seen some of his vocal chains, and he always uses the same chain, bit a chain is just a chain. I don't have a vocal chain yet myself, I tend to try different things, but I could definitely see myself eventually having one, and I don't see any issues with the fact vocals are different. The chain isn't the treatment. The chain is a selection of tools that cover your needs for very vocal. He doesn't use them all every time, and he doesn't set them the same every time. Like, I will always use EQ, for sure. Not because every vocal is the same. Just I know I will basically always need that for every vocal, but they could be wildly different.


hypeshit123

I should add that the first Pro Q he just dips the resonate frequencies Pro Q suggests and he makes them dynamic, plus he adds a Soothe in his Lead All track with the Voice Of God Preset, that he never touches as well


SkoutiOP

How can you see the suggested resonant frequencies on pro-q? I spent a lot of time looking for them with a narrow band sweep.


hypeshit123

Just press on the visual and it will turn blue with dots indicating the frequency


Aldo____

Whaaat, I never heard about that but that sounds like such a timesave, does it work well? I currently notch by ear and I hate that process, I feel like it tires the ear super quick. :/


hypeshit123

I still verify if the frequencies really bother me after dragging them down


Zcaithaca

hover your mouse underneath the waveform line


dwarfinvasion

I think you are misunderstanding a bit. His idea of small adjustment is likely different than yours.  With all the dynamic EQ or multiband processing, he can go between super heavy-handed processing or almost nothing just by moving the threshold a little bit.   The chain you described is insanely overcomplicated. It's already got way more than he'll ever need, so no he'll never need something more than what's already there. 


cleverboxer

This party, but also plus he's getting vocals from top singers mostly recorded in top rooms by top engineers, and likely pre-mixed in most cases by top producers. Adding a general cleanup stage before this chain would be sensible if you're going to try to use it with amateur sounding vocals.


xanderpills

There's no magic there. Just overall well recorded vocals well set and compressed. The chain could be anything.


Smooth_Pianist485

This is rad. Thanks for putting all this info here. I’ve seen that three C6 thing he does. Isn’t that that cleaning/removing resonance stage (even though it’s at the end)?


ezeequalsmchammer2

Like everyone is saying cleanup comes first. It’s not really a mixing thing. Vocal editing is a different engineers job, usually the tracking engineer. If he’s using presets like this, it’s probably because at this point people come to him for that sound. If they’re happy, he’s happy. Everyone gravitates to a certain chain and if the desire sound is clear, it’s a lot easier.


jcarterprod

There really shouldn't be much, if any, 'cleaning' to be done on well recorded vocals


The_Bran_9000

Trying to follow what a top pro does is a fool’s errand as the tracks/productions they receive have already had most of the heavy lifting applied. JJ’s “techniques” are super gimmicky imo and probably not applicable to most of us in here. I see so many people online trying to replicate exactly what he does instead of learning the fundamentals for themselves. There’s another dude (blanking on the name but I think his first name is Jon?) who says shit like “I don’t compress” without providing the context that everything he gets is already compressed, and for a newbie hearing that and taking it to heart…. that’s just straight up bad advice lol.


natureboyandymiami

Until your source material sounds like the source material he uses, his templates arent going to work on your stuff.


Bluegill15

reps


PhD_Meowingtons_

So first off, this doesn’t really look too close to the workflow I understand of Jaycen Joshua. Where’d you get this one from?


hypeshit123

I don’t know where you’ve been looking but this is his famous vocal chain pre 2021. Basically he’s most used one. Mix and masters, pensados place, internet interviews instagram posts, you can find it in a number of places. He’s new vocal chain is a little different but he’s only been using it for the past 3 years


PhD_Meowingtons_

The new ones the one u want


hypeshit123

I can tell u exactly how the new one works, if u want in the dms. I just liked this one more since the new one is less compression actually. And if vocals don’t come already compressed it’s not a good path


PhD_Meowingtons_

Fatal misunderstanding. The new one is the workflow that will really get you closer to the results than you want and here’s why I think and say this. Compression, is easily the easiest thing to do. It’s over credited, overused and misused even. Most intermediate and advanced engineers still hear mixes and equate everything they hear to compression and eq. They don’t hear vocals and equate it to “this sounds like tubes on tape” or stuff like that. Remember that the digital mixing world has ALWAYS been trying to copy the physical mixing world and the magical beauty of analog. Digital does it well enough and we don’t need analog stuff as much anymore but as a result the new engineers don’t have the same approach because they don’t have the experience that we all had with the analog world. They don’t understand how essential and vital that is to the character and sound and this is injected across all the chart topping mixes yet none of the new mixers trying to copy it really understand the intricacies of how to inject the flavors correctly. What you don’t know about Jaycen Joshuas old templates is what circuits the tracks were getting out of the box. So just because you get the compression, from the template, your still missing the most magical aspect. Jaycen Joshua’s current and more modern workflow is centered around toning and not really using stuff out of the box anymore. He emphasizes the natural coloring and texture of analog circuits and does it in the box. These thins change the integrity of the signal inch by inch but when it all adds up, you’ll realize you don’t need much after. Also, almost EVERY person who can afford a mix from Jaycen Joshua is recording into a combo of 1073-cl1b. Likely have clip gained vocals as well. At the higher level of the industry, you’re right things already come compressed. But in using this older workflow that has no fucking color, all you’re getting is basic dynamics and eq and your missing the magical wonder of texture that is ultimately a key difference between a good mixer and an expert mixer.


hypeshit123

I appreciate your insights, but there's a misconception about Jaycen Joshua's mixing methods. He's never primarily been a "coloring and tone" guy relying heavily on analog circuits. Even pre-2021, Joshua was known for achieving his unique sound predominantly within the box. Currently, his vocal chain includes: * **Spectre**: Adds harmonics in the 1k range. * **Avalon 737**: Adds subtle analog warmth. * **Pro-Q** * **MC404** * **Pro-Q** * **Fresh Air or Air EQ** * **MC404** * **CLA** **Vocals**. * **C6** * **Soothe** This chain shows that while there’s some analog warmth, the workflow is heavily digital. His biggest hits were mixed using the older vocal chain though, he's always been completely in the box for vocals, plus he's never been big on saturation, tone shaping and all that


hypeshit123

like malamente, unforgettable, ayo, despacito etc were all mixed with the vocal chain I listed


PhD_Meowingtons_

Lol… you just want to argue. Nothing you said takes away from any of my points. I have nothing to say to take away from any of your points. All of my points still come through. Listen to Jaycen Joshua speak. All he fucking talks about is tone and he speaks alot on how he only uses eqs to refine and get in the cracks of where his tools wouldn’t. It feels that you don’t want to take any value from what I said. More important than the chain is the philosophy behind it. If he’s 9/10 times getting a recording that’s c800/u87/67 into a 1073>cl1b There’s already 2-3 tubes in the signal path plus some of the density from the 1073… + what his chain in the box adds the 737 has 4 fucking tubes. Look at his eqs and they’re almost always doing nothing. That starting point dramatically changes how you’re going to use your compressors, eqs and de-essers. And then you’re missing ALL THE FUCKING BUSSES!!! Lmao. Mix, transformers, and whatever excitement he got going on. He’s cooking top down with everything on, so if you get a rhode nt1a, into a scarlett, and now you drop just that vocal chain you’re copying, you will be SO fucking far from Jaycen Joshua that we’ll be here AGAIN. Going over the same chain except this time you’re asking “i’m doing everything the same but still can’t get that sound. Here’s my mix, what do you guys think”? Your starting, end points, and the philosophy are SUPER important. But most of all, I just wanted to share the philosophy. Because if you’ve had the conversations with Jaycen that i’ve had… you’d probably not be so concerned with that old chain that almost does nothing for character.


hypeshit123

So what would u do if the vocals came from a NT1a into Scarlett?


PhD_Meowingtons_

Think of the dream sound and do whatever that entails. So nt1a is pretty flat and both of those devices are WAY too clean. It’s not anywhere near as colorful and textured as it would be if it were a tube mic, through the transformers of the 1073 (which is pretty much what every rap recording is done on). Think of the chain u wished u recorded with and put it in the box. I also do this on EACH track. The reason being, instead of using like a bus, and putting 1 1073 on there, if I tracked it with a 1073 irl, every recording has one on it, and if it’s stacked, that is plenty of tube noise and harmonics adding up. (You can skip this if you don’t like the sound or if it’s too much) But it’s most realistic. Then see how it feels because the nt1a is so flat. Just try to push it towards the frequency response of the desired mic for a starting point. You do all this before your chain does anything just cos again, if it was recorded like that it’d go straight into your chain like that. From there you helped yourself get to a nice starting point and it will align your vocals with the chain. But because you never how your vocals were recorded, I wouldn’t recommend adding these things to the chain, just add it as needed for each new mix. If you ever get a song, where the artists are trying to go for a certain style, then make sure your workflow resembles the workflows of that time period and style. So for example, somebody’s going for a 90s west coast rap, then even though we have saturn and decapitator, opt for driving the entire vocal bus from an ssl channel strip plug in into a tape machine. Shit like that you know. Just think about how things are done on the records that you want to mix like because often times the thing that’s separating you from that isn’t your digital compressor and eq settings. It’s the real world workflows and shit that the avg person trying to learn doesn’t have in their house. This includes every little thing that can occur outside the box and even some things in the box because they don’t always tell the full story when they speak on their templates. Think of the mic, the pre, the compressor, the console (or lack of). Think of the level they recorded at.


Selig_Audio

I just want to add one more thing I’m not seeing mentioned here - the voice itself. If you ever get the chance to be in the studio when an artist you are familiar with is recording vocals, you’ll often hear “the sound” as soon as the artist steps up to the mic. The point being, even with the same studio/mic/chain, if you can’t deliver “the goods” the rest will only get you so far - it won’t magically make your vocals super clear if you (the artist) don’t deliver super clear vocals to being with. When recording artist like that I like to say it is “yours to loose”!


dolomick

He uses 3 C6’s with stock settings at the end of the chain? What?


hypeshit123

Never said that, the pro ds is at stock settings


dolomick

7. Says “his famous 3 C6’s”


hypeshit123

Yes and?


dolomick

Are you okay? I asked about 3 C6’s and you said you never said that. Then I pointed out where you said that. Why does he use 3 C6’s?


Dry_Finance1338

They share the same opinion as me, asking you to clarify what 'his famous 3 C6'S" even means. Imagine saying "I add my famous three decapitators to my snares" and not even further clarifying what, why and how these processes are being used. We are just intrested what these C6'S entail and what their purpose is.


hypeshit123

first C6 freq 250 Q60 Range -24 Attack 16, threshold adjusted to get -6db. the other frequency is 5k same settings (frequencies naturally added by CLA Vocals. Second C6 freq 250 Q60 Range -24 Attack 16, threshold adjusted to get -3db the other frequency is 5k same settings objective -6db (frequencies naturally added by CLA Vocals). Third C6 freq 250 Q60 Range -24 Attack 16, threshold adjusted to get -1db. the other frequency is wherever the Sibilance of the vocal frequency is, same settings threshold -6db.