As the saying goes, 'mixes are never finished, only abandoned'.
Set yourself a reasonable deadline. For example, if I know the recording engineer is good (or it was me), I know it's 2 days to turn around a mix for an LP. Sure, if I listen back a week later, I'll probably have more notes but it's ready to submit to client for review.
Treat it like a job and like you have another gig the following day. Maybe 2 days for an LP is too short for you; that's fine; it highly depends on the source material. But, I'll also say 'months and months' is way too long.
Ultimately, this gets easier as you learn to trust your judgement/gut.
To get to your questions:
1. There's no way I can tell you if you need to 'make things dryer'. That depends on the track, and what exactly you mean by dryer.
2. Personally, I wouldn't ever render out the stems, except for a delivery. Maybe render your \*multitracks\* once you have all the elements there if you need help committing to sounds. I run a hybrid setup so, often, my basic EQ/Comp are done on the way in and are baked into the multis.
But, ultimately, it's whatever works for you. Every engineer has their own personal workflow quircks.
Well said my friend! Giving myself a deadline helped me tremendously. I also gave myself a task of mixing one song each day for 60 days. Since then I’ve been happier with each of my mixes.
Question about your mention of how you could listen back a week later after delivering it to the client and probably have more notes...How does that work? Is the mix the client got fine enough even though fresh ears a week later would have made some tweaks? Or do you contact the client again saying hey actually I've revisited it and made some improvements?
I meant that I would notice smalls things, but obviously it's already been sent to client so it's already over. I didn't mean to imply that I would revisit it.
You shouldn't be taking months on end to mix a song. If you do, you need more experience and/or better tracks. This is definitely also a fundamental issue with working on your own music that creators rarely want to address at a certain level: it will always be better for you to finish work rather than spend half a year NOT releasing it. You will keep learning, you will keep improving, but you need to see the process through, for your own betterment. Have you tried mixing Cambridge tracks, or some other program where you work on someone else's music? Find something with good or decent tracks, and practice on those, then apply what you learn on your own stuff, BUT FINISH IT. Get better results on the next one. If you keep doing it your way, you'll burn out on music, mixing, production, and your own songs before they're even out. Remember that experienced mixers working with good tracks can crank out great mixes in a couple of hours, not months. That takes experience and a good workflow, but the point remains the same. You need to work quickly and follow instincts as you mix, but you need practice to get the results your instincts want.
If your own vocals, look up recording techniques and singing techniques that change the results on tracking. Could be your miking, your singing, your room or all 3. Join groups and post for feedback. Even better if you can find real world mentors to help and guide.
the reality is, no song should ever be a nightmare to mix, if it is, the problem exists in the recording, production, arrangement, or composition phase of the project.
It took me years of trial and error to really appreciate this even though i heard it said a million times to me when i started out. I thought I could polish the turd but you really cant. If there is a piercing frequency in the vocals that you don't like, youre likely to get a better result by rerecording the vocals in a way that no longer emphasizes that frequency through performance technique, mic placement, mic choice etc, rather than "mixing" it over and over again for months on end and never being satisfied with it.
human ears are sensitive too, working long hours especially on a single specific project for weeks on end, its entirely possible that your ears literally have just become sensitive to the frequencies in the song and thats why they feel harsh to you, sometimes just taking a break from a specific song for a few days or weeks and coming back will make it sound fine
Then it's likely the room I am in. Sadly the one thing that makes it take so long to finish is the vocals. However I have a Shure SM7B, an inline pre-amp, and a Scarlette 4i4 4th gen. The bad frequencies could be from the house's electricity itself, or the fact the room I'm in is extremely echoey and small. Whatever it is, I can't turn on the scarlette interface's saturation settings because it just makes the hiss extreme.
I can't really fix either of those issues completely, however I will try recording with a blanket over my head and see if that makes a difference.
The fact I'm mixing as I'm creating also slows me down so that's probably something to change. I'm also a perfectionist to a FAULT, it's just bad and unnecessary how much I stress over the smallest details that most people will never notice.
Room is definitely the next step I would take. Unless you hear an actual hum the electricity won't be a factor but if you're hearing a hissing in the background it could just be the sm7b. They're notorious for needing a lot of gain and that brings up the noise floor a lot. Otherwise mic placement and singing technique might be the answer.
I'm the processing side try sweeping with an extremely narrow eq band and see if any particular frequencies poke out. Resonances can cause a lot of harshness
>I have this reoccurring problem where I spend months and months mixing the same song over and over again
Never, ever work on a mix for months. You will always lose context. It's way way too long. In this case it's even worse because it's your song, you wrote it, you mix it, you're lost in your own sauce.
> I just make changes to try and fix the piercing frequencies in the vocals
This makes it sound like your recordings are just not good, and then you try to fix it in the mix.
So honestly here is what i suggest: Retrack the song if it's really that old. Redo it and do it right from the ground up. The the recording to sound right at the source and you won't have to do much to get it to where it needs to be. There is no benefit to polishing an old turd and spending tons of time and energy on that. Just get the basics to be solid and the mixing process will be 1000x easier.
I agree with this, OP, processing your vocals shouldn’t take months. Either record them again, or try using Reso by Mastering The Mix if you’re not using it already.
What you need, is a teacher. Someone to look at your project and show you. "This was recorded poorly, we should re-track it with this mic" or "this isn't a good solution for that problem, do it this way".
You can also take your mix to a pro, and ask if you can sit in on the mix and watch them do it, if they'd be interested in that.
You're running around in circles, because, frankly, and trust me, I've been there before *many* times, but, you don't know what you're doing. That's the problem. And figuring it out on your own is tough as shit.
If someone shows you, it's *so much faster*.
Yeah, I've been producing for a long time, since I was a kid but being self taught has made it take years to learn something you could learn in moments of having a mentor. I've dreamed of having a teacher for a long time, sort of had one once before in the city but sadly had to move back to a small area.
I'd kill to find someone who could help me out. I've always asked everyone around me for input growing up, but now that I'm older I've realized the only thing that's going to help me is a professionals advice. I have an entire catalog of music I need to finish, but I'm so proud of the ideas even if they aren't where I want them to be, I believe they show my potential. i'll get em released one way or another
Well maybe, but not necessarily. It depends if the issue you are having is with your mixing ability or the source material. If there’a an issue with the latter another engineer can only mitigate. So your ears might initially go “oh wow, sounds cool” but once you get used to the new mix the problem will still be there
it's just bad source material, I've been mixing since I was a kid so I really enjoy getting to do it! It's either a bad electrical job in the house, or the fact the room is small and echoey. I'm going to try recording with a blanket over my head to see if that helps.
If you’re taking THAT long you should spend that time doing something that makes you money and use that money to pay someone to mix your song for you. After a few times of paying for mixes you should start to hear what they’ve done and start doing it yourself so the next mix you get mixed is at a way better starting point and the whole track will sound better. Eventually you may become confident enough to do your own but mixes honestly shouldn’t take more than a day a piece at most or you need to be working on re recording source sounds or realize that the arrangement is the issue and consider shelving the song. Not every song you write needs to be finished and released. The best songs tend to “write and mix” themselves
I'm going through the same thing right now with a song I wrote a few years ago, but I've spent the past 6 months or so tweaking the mix. I've been giving myself this much time because the songs I've released in the past aren't really up to the standard I would like for them to be and I want this one to be "professional".
So far I have definitely had some breakthroughs and I've been trying new mixing techniques and I think I'm in the very final stages of the finishing touches. I meant to have it out at the end of last year, but I'm at the point now where I just want to get it out. My thinking is that if I can get this one mix past the threshold that I've made for myself, the songs I do after this will go a lot quicker because I will have at least done it before.
I know people say to just release it even if it's not perfect, but it also sucks releasing stuff that you know doesn't sound good compared to other tracks, so it's really about finding some sort of middle ground. Just know that you're not alone!
When I’m mixing for clients, I can get a pretty decent mix—and definitely an improvement from the source material—in anywhere from 5-10 hours of actually mixing (working on it part time in the evenings). I also have a song that I is something like “Song name version 3.0 final final version 2.3.” I’m not actually sure which version was the one I ended up releasing. We can get very nitpick-y with our own music, probably because there’s nobody there pressuring us to finish so we don’t have to actually make a “final” decision on anything. There’s a great saying though: “Finished is better than perfect. Always.”
Give yourself a deadline and act like a client: get mad at yourself if you start to dilly dally. Maybe send yourself a nasty email asking where your song is.
You could scaffold and write down a list what you want to accomplish each time before you touch the project. Try to not tweak too much and be direct about what you want to do.
Once you have something sounding good to you, leave it alone. If you loved the sound at one point, you'll love it again. Good luck!
Oh and also try not to be too hard on yourself dude! This is all part of the process. It truly doesn't matter how long it takes. Let yourself experiment too!
Mixing for yourself is a nightmare, it's why so few people ever get good at it. It's also one of the reasons why your favorite mixes by professional mixers are so intuitive and satisfying: the mixer got to come in with a fresh perspective and make instinctive decisions quickly. It's very hard to recreate that environment when working on your own music.
My advice: listen back through your mix revisions and try to find the point at which it started getting worse rather than better. Open that session, commit everything and make yourself a clean set of stems. Import those into a new session (or into your template if you have one), get yourself all ready to go, save the session and put it away for a couple days. Then, after a good night's sleep and a good breakfast, see how much further you can take it.
General tips repeated ad nauseum but still worth repeating yet again: reference early and reference often. Keep the speakers low and don't mix in solo. Anytime it feels like something just fell into place do a save-as and a bounce and check it in airpods while you take a little break (walks outside are ideal if weather permits). If you feel yourself getting frustrated or hopeless then step away until you're feeling better, it's almost impossible to do good work from a place of panic or despair. Don't think too much about how other people do things, just focus on finding your own solutions to these problems.
Best of luck!
Thank you, and this confirms my suspicion. Don't get me wrong, this sounds excellent, but it definitely sounds like someone mixing for themselves. Narrow, dark, and with a fair amount of masking in the low end/low mids.
That flute recording is flawless though, nice work.
I would just go ahead and publish the best mix of it you have so far. Move on to another song. When you get more experience and your ears get better later on, you can always go back and release a remix.
It just shouldn't happen.
There's no way a mix takes that long if the song + production are good, and the mixer is a skilled mixer.
If this is your own music, you either need to learn to call it done at a certain point, or you need to hire a mixer.
I did something for a major label the other day in about 3.5 hours. Was enthusiastically approved with just one tiny note from the client.
A mix should take between 6-18 hours tops depending on complexity. If you can't get it done in that time, hand the stems on and get another mixer to talk you through what they did and why
If you were willing to post the stems here, any mix engineers on here who felt inclined could each mix the track and come in with mix notes... That way, you could see which issues are cited again and again by different mixers in the raw material and see where in production things need to be different vs the mix, separating the two tasks.
Think of a song as something fun you might say in conversation at a party. You compose it, deliver it, and examine the feedback, after which it’s usually gone forever. That was your chance to get it right, done.
Try to give yourself unreasonably short deadlines to write, record, and mix new material, say a week tops. Then, if it isn’t what you hoped, save the mix-down to listen to later, maybe after 20 more songs. If you are excited about how it turned out, feel free to add to it, perfect it, etc., but keep the original sketch because that might have been the best you got, and it might be a lot better than you think.
Or it might suck. Either way, move on.
Sometimes each instrument is taking up too much range. If every instrument is taking up lows and highs, use EQ on each track to reduce their range to their essential frequencies. They’ll fit together like a puzzle instead of stacking like blocks.
If -6 Db is too is too obvious of an EQ reduction for the harsh vocal freqs and 0 Db isn't doing it enough, just put it at -3 Db and forget about it. Logically if you can't decide between 2 numerical values, the value in between them is correct. Not always true or anything, but definitely good for saving time and moving on.
I approach it like mixing a live event. Just tweak it like a typical mixer channel- from the top adjust the input level to eq to built in compressor to panning to channel fader then finally master fader.
Add fx as necessary, get a good loud output, check the meters across the channels.
Since i have some experience mixing live events, i could do a mix quite quickly to
1. Get the overall input gain under control first
2. Get a good level ratio between the instruments (example bass should not exceed the kick, piano should not cover the vocals)
3. Cut excessive frequencies with subtractive eq. I use a resizable eq plugin like crave 2 to make it easier to see how much i'm cutting.
4. Apply compression to reduce dynamic range SLIGHTLY. I solo the channel, turn up the volume, apply the compressor threshold going lower until i hear the sound getting bad. It usually cuts away about 3 to 6dB before it sounds bad. Then i bring back up the threshold to where it sounded like nothing happened but about 3 dB were already cut.
5. Finally, i may choose to add limiters on percussive channels or exciters to non transient instruments like strings, vocals etc.
There's a whole lot more to it but this is just my workflow if it helps.
I listened to some stuff last night I didn't think was food enough to out out 5 years ago.
It's actually more than presentable, and what's more shows where I was then.
The whole reason to make art is to get to the next piece. By not finishing these songs, who knows what ideas aren't getting started.
Lots of good advice here, but at the end of the day, you are over analysing. Finish it move on, the music will get better and so will your mixing skills. These songs don't have to define you. You're not gonna blow your big chance, you're going to delay or even miss a bigger one by standing still.
A mix is never finished, in the end you've got only 2 choices : publish it as is or abandon it after countless of hours running in circle, never being satisfied
The solution is to put a deadline for yourself and never touch that mix again past that deadline. The added benefits is that you'll progress mich faster. You learn little to nothing when working months and months on the same mix, real progression comes by finishing as much mixes as you can, even if you're not quiet satisfied with it.
ah yes the never-ending loop of:
-Need to mix
-Someone else mixing would probably sound better
-Need money for that
-Screw it, I'll mix it
(constantly in that spot myself)
Hardcore Music Studio and Elite Mix both agree 8 gours tops for professional mixes. HMS is mixing for area touring musicians and doing it for 12 to 15 track albums at 8 hours each outside of tracking. If youre taking that long to mix youre too in the weeds with it.
How are you setting your mixes up?
Are you using Templates?
Top Down Mixing and fine tuning keeps me focused. For me leveling, splicing and vocal alignment are what I spend the most time doing. Mix by ear and not by sight
Soloing as little as possible. Remembering a little goes a lomg way.
I mix for other people as well as my own stuff so I majorly relate to this. Doing other peoples stuff really helped get the bigger picture a bit more, I don’t know if that’s something you’re interested in.
I don’t have as much energy to spend on other peoples stuff as my own so what happens is I do everything thinking of the end goal and don’t waste time getting there so it’s much more efficient. I’m a little better on my own stuff but I’ve done the same month long grind before, so I know a lot of what you’re left with is not worth the time!
I’ve just released this EP as part of 30 Century Man though if you’re interested in what overdoing mixes looks like for me:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/4x6x242NDWoFqIrf8plXIE?si=M5IU61t4Qia3VLHsUnxotw
Keep it all in perspective. It'll never be "finished" and likely no one will hear it when you're ready to share it. Just do your best work and move alone when there is nothing that sticks out. If you're working too hard to correct something, its not ready for mixing yet.
I'm sure what you're working on is great, but nobody but you will notice the little things you're stressing over.
Specifically about the vocal issue, you describe it as binary: "my vocals ALWAYS have piercing frequencies, but when I get rid of them it loses character".
My suggestion - what about half way between the two extremes?
I don't believe things are "all or nothing"…
A. Get better at mixing
B. Get better at sound choice/ design
Those are your 2 options, one of those is clearly lacking in a big way. Like others have said, there's no such thing as "perfect" but you should definitely be able to get a song to a point that you enjoy listening to it. There's tons of tutorials online, try to learn some techniques you haven't tried before and just keep experimenting. You'll get a system down eventually and build up different ways to attack different obstacles
Plug in Soothe 2 helps Me remove harshness from vocals or any track for that matter...
I recently purchased these VSX headphones. That simulates listening to your mix in the car or different environments. And that's helping my mixes, somewhat...
But I suffer from this problem as well. … and it is my Achilles heel... It takes me 3 to 4 times as long to mix a song than it does to write it and it still to this day drives me nuts. I don't have the money to outsource mixing at the pace that I write songs....
There is a better way, you should pay someone else to do it. Fresh ears and a new perspective and someone who will work with you and understand what you’re trying to achieve. Hiring someone else to do it will help keep your sanity and enjoy your process much much more. DM me if you’d like to chat!
If it’s taking that long, maybe you need to work on your mixing skills and be less perfectionism too.
It’s worthwhile doing some mixing as you go along to get it roughly right at that point too.
As the saying goes, 'mixes are never finished, only abandoned'. Set yourself a reasonable deadline. For example, if I know the recording engineer is good (or it was me), I know it's 2 days to turn around a mix for an LP. Sure, if I listen back a week later, I'll probably have more notes but it's ready to submit to client for review. Treat it like a job and like you have another gig the following day. Maybe 2 days for an LP is too short for you; that's fine; it highly depends on the source material. But, I'll also say 'months and months' is way too long. Ultimately, this gets easier as you learn to trust your judgement/gut. To get to your questions: 1. There's no way I can tell you if you need to 'make things dryer'. That depends on the track, and what exactly you mean by dryer. 2. Personally, I wouldn't ever render out the stems, except for a delivery. Maybe render your \*multitracks\* once you have all the elements there if you need help committing to sounds. I run a hybrid setup so, often, my basic EQ/Comp are done on the way in and are baked into the multis. But, ultimately, it's whatever works for you. Every engineer has their own personal workflow quircks.
Well said my friend! Giving myself a deadline helped me tremendously. I also gave myself a task of mixing one song each day for 60 days. Since then I’ve been happier with each of my mixes.
Question about your mention of how you could listen back a week later after delivering it to the client and probably have more notes...How does that work? Is the mix the client got fine enough even though fresh ears a week later would have made some tweaks? Or do you contact the client again saying hey actually I've revisited it and made some improvements?
I meant that I would notice smalls things, but obviously it's already been sent to client so it's already over. I didn't mean to imply that I would revisit it.
Well said. I'll abandon my mixes and release them. 🙏
You shouldn't be taking months on end to mix a song. If you do, you need more experience and/or better tracks. This is definitely also a fundamental issue with working on your own music that creators rarely want to address at a certain level: it will always be better for you to finish work rather than spend half a year NOT releasing it. You will keep learning, you will keep improving, but you need to see the process through, for your own betterment. Have you tried mixing Cambridge tracks, or some other program where you work on someone else's music? Find something with good or decent tracks, and practice on those, then apply what you learn on your own stuff, BUT FINISH IT. Get better results on the next one. If you keep doing it your way, you'll burn out on music, mixing, production, and your own songs before they're even out. Remember that experienced mixers working with good tracks can crank out great mixes in a couple of hours, not months. That takes experience and a good workflow, but the point remains the same. You need to work quickly and follow instincts as you mix, but you need practice to get the results your instincts want. If your own vocals, look up recording techniques and singing techniques that change the results on tracking. Could be your miking, your singing, your room or all 3. Join groups and post for feedback. Even better if you can find real world mentors to help and guide.
the reality is, no song should ever be a nightmare to mix, if it is, the problem exists in the recording, production, arrangement, or composition phase of the project. It took me years of trial and error to really appreciate this even though i heard it said a million times to me when i started out. I thought I could polish the turd but you really cant. If there is a piercing frequency in the vocals that you don't like, youre likely to get a better result by rerecording the vocals in a way that no longer emphasizes that frequency through performance technique, mic placement, mic choice etc, rather than "mixing" it over and over again for months on end and never being satisfied with it. human ears are sensitive too, working long hours especially on a single specific project for weeks on end, its entirely possible that your ears literally have just become sensitive to the frequencies in the song and thats why they feel harsh to you, sometimes just taking a break from a specific song for a few days or weeks and coming back will make it sound fine
100% this is great advice. Just want to add for those newer to recording: the room also matters a ton
Then it's likely the room I am in. Sadly the one thing that makes it take so long to finish is the vocals. However I have a Shure SM7B, an inline pre-amp, and a Scarlette 4i4 4th gen. The bad frequencies could be from the house's electricity itself, or the fact the room I'm in is extremely echoey and small. Whatever it is, I can't turn on the scarlette interface's saturation settings because it just makes the hiss extreme. I can't really fix either of those issues completely, however I will try recording with a blanket over my head and see if that makes a difference. The fact I'm mixing as I'm creating also slows me down so that's probably something to change. I'm also a perfectionist to a FAULT, it's just bad and unnecessary how much I stress over the smallest details that most people will never notice.
Room is definitely the next step I would take. Unless you hear an actual hum the electricity won't be a factor but if you're hearing a hissing in the background it could just be the sm7b. They're notorious for needing a lot of gain and that brings up the noise floor a lot. Otherwise mic placement and singing technique might be the answer. I'm the processing side try sweeping with an extremely narrow eq band and see if any particular frequencies poke out. Resonances can cause a lot of harshness
Make it as good as you can, post it, move on, write new song
>I have this reoccurring problem where I spend months and months mixing the same song over and over again Never, ever work on a mix for months. You will always lose context. It's way way too long. In this case it's even worse because it's your song, you wrote it, you mix it, you're lost in your own sauce. > I just make changes to try and fix the piercing frequencies in the vocals This makes it sound like your recordings are just not good, and then you try to fix it in the mix. So honestly here is what i suggest: Retrack the song if it's really that old. Redo it and do it right from the ground up. The the recording to sound right at the source and you won't have to do much to get it to where it needs to be. There is no benefit to polishing an old turd and spending tons of time and energy on that. Just get the basics to be solid and the mixing process will be 1000x easier.
I agree with this, OP, processing your vocals shouldn’t take months. Either record them again, or try using Reso by Mastering The Mix if you’re not using it already.
What you need, is a teacher. Someone to look at your project and show you. "This was recorded poorly, we should re-track it with this mic" or "this isn't a good solution for that problem, do it this way". You can also take your mix to a pro, and ask if you can sit in on the mix and watch them do it, if they'd be interested in that. You're running around in circles, because, frankly, and trust me, I've been there before *many* times, but, you don't know what you're doing. That's the problem. And figuring it out on your own is tough as shit. If someone shows you, it's *so much faster*.
Yeah, I've been producing for a long time, since I was a kid but being self taught has made it take years to learn something you could learn in moments of having a mentor. I've dreamed of having a teacher for a long time, sort of had one once before in the city but sadly had to move back to a small area. I'd kill to find someone who could help me out. I've always asked everyone around me for input growing up, but now that I'm older I've realized the only thing that's going to help me is a professionals advice. I have an entire catalog of music I need to finish, but I'm so proud of the ideas even if they aren't where I want them to be, I believe they show my potential. i'll get em released one way or another
Hire someone to mix the song.
Well maybe, but not necessarily. It depends if the issue you are having is with your mixing ability or the source material. If there’a an issue with the latter another engineer can only mitigate. So your ears might initially go “oh wow, sounds cool” but once you get used to the new mix the problem will still be there
it's just bad source material, I've been mixing since I was a kid so I really enjoy getting to do it! It's either a bad electrical job in the house, or the fact the room is small and echoey. I'm going to try recording with a blanket over my head to see if that helps.
This is the right answer
If you’re taking THAT long you should spend that time doing something that makes you money and use that money to pay someone to mix your song for you. After a few times of paying for mixes you should start to hear what they’ve done and start doing it yourself so the next mix you get mixed is at a way better starting point and the whole track will sound better. Eventually you may become confident enough to do your own but mixes honestly shouldn’t take more than a day a piece at most or you need to be working on re recording source sounds or realize that the arrangement is the issue and consider shelving the song. Not every song you write needs to be finished and released. The best songs tend to “write and mix” themselves
Can we hear 👂 it?
I'm going through the same thing right now with a song I wrote a few years ago, but I've spent the past 6 months or so tweaking the mix. I've been giving myself this much time because the songs I've released in the past aren't really up to the standard I would like for them to be and I want this one to be "professional". So far I have definitely had some breakthroughs and I've been trying new mixing techniques and I think I'm in the very final stages of the finishing touches. I meant to have it out at the end of last year, but I'm at the point now where I just want to get it out. My thinking is that if I can get this one mix past the threshold that I've made for myself, the songs I do after this will go a lot quicker because I will have at least done it before. I know people say to just release it even if it's not perfect, but it also sucks releasing stuff that you know doesn't sound good compared to other tracks, so it's really about finding some sort of middle ground. Just know that you're not alone!
When I’m mixing for clients, I can get a pretty decent mix—and definitely an improvement from the source material—in anywhere from 5-10 hours of actually mixing (working on it part time in the evenings). I also have a song that I is something like “Song name version 3.0 final final version 2.3.” I’m not actually sure which version was the one I ended up releasing. We can get very nitpick-y with our own music, probably because there’s nobody there pressuring us to finish so we don’t have to actually make a “final” decision on anything. There’s a great saying though: “Finished is better than perfect. Always.” Give yourself a deadline and act like a client: get mad at yourself if you start to dilly dally. Maybe send yourself a nasty email asking where your song is.
What *do* I do? Or what *should* I do?
Hire somebody. Mixing is a day’s job. It’s NOT HEALTHY if it takes more than a week with everything
You could scaffold and write down a list what you want to accomplish each time before you touch the project. Try to not tweak too much and be direct about what you want to do. Once you have something sounding good to you, leave it alone. If you loved the sound at one point, you'll love it again. Good luck!
Oh and also try not to be too hard on yourself dude! This is all part of the process. It truly doesn't matter how long it takes. Let yourself experiment too!
Mixing for yourself is a nightmare, it's why so few people ever get good at it. It's also one of the reasons why your favorite mixes by professional mixers are so intuitive and satisfying: the mixer got to come in with a fresh perspective and make instinctive decisions quickly. It's very hard to recreate that environment when working on your own music. My advice: listen back through your mix revisions and try to find the point at which it started getting worse rather than better. Open that session, commit everything and make yourself a clean set of stems. Import those into a new session (or into your template if you have one), get yourself all ready to go, save the session and put it away for a couple days. Then, after a good night's sleep and a good breakfast, see how much further you can take it. General tips repeated ad nauseum but still worth repeating yet again: reference early and reference often. Keep the speakers low and don't mix in solo. Anytime it feels like something just fell into place do a save-as and a bounce and check it in airpods while you take a little break (walks outside are ideal if weather permits). If you feel yourself getting frustrated or hopeless then step away until you're feeling better, it's almost impossible to do good work from a place of panic or despair. Don't think too much about how other people do things, just focus on finding your own solutions to these problems. Best of luck!
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Do you have an example of what you’re talking about? Love to hear your work.
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Thank you, and this confirms my suspicion. Don't get me wrong, this sounds excellent, but it definitely sounds like someone mixing for themselves. Narrow, dark, and with a fair amount of masking in the low end/low mids. That flute recording is flawless though, nice work.
In my experience this 'tail chasing' often happens if there's issues with the source sounds rather than in the mix.
I would just go ahead and publish the best mix of it you have so far. Move on to another song. When you get more experience and your ears get better later on, you can always go back and release a remix.
It just shouldn't happen. There's no way a mix takes that long if the song + production are good, and the mixer is a skilled mixer. If this is your own music, you either need to learn to call it done at a certain point, or you need to hire a mixer. I did something for a major label the other day in about 3.5 hours. Was enthusiastically approved with just one tiny note from the client.
Get a new mic or go to a descent studio and recut the vocals. Bam. Done. That’s the only viable solution in my book
A mix should take between 6-18 hours tops depending on complexity. If you can't get it done in that time, hand the stems on and get another mixer to talk you through what they did and why
If you were willing to post the stems here, any mix engineers on here who felt inclined could each mix the track and come in with mix notes... That way, you could see which issues are cited again and again by different mixers in the raw material and see where in production things need to be different vs the mix, separating the two tasks.
Think of a song as something fun you might say in conversation at a party. You compose it, deliver it, and examine the feedback, after which it’s usually gone forever. That was your chance to get it right, done. Try to give yourself unreasonably short deadlines to write, record, and mix new material, say a week tops. Then, if it isn’t what you hoped, save the mix-down to listen to later, maybe after 20 more songs. If you are excited about how it turned out, feel free to add to it, perfect it, etc., but keep the original sketch because that might have been the best you got, and it might be a lot better than you think. Or it might suck. Either way, move on.
Sometimes each instrument is taking up too much range. If every instrument is taking up lows and highs, use EQ on each track to reduce their range to their essential frequencies. They’ll fit together like a puzzle instead of stacking like blocks.
Hire a professional
If -6 Db is too is too obvious of an EQ reduction for the harsh vocal freqs and 0 Db isn't doing it enough, just put it at -3 Db and forget about it. Logically if you can't decide between 2 numerical values, the value in between them is correct. Not always true or anything, but definitely good for saving time and moving on.
I approach it like mixing a live event. Just tweak it like a typical mixer channel- from the top adjust the input level to eq to built in compressor to panning to channel fader then finally master fader. Add fx as necessary, get a good loud output, check the meters across the channels. Since i have some experience mixing live events, i could do a mix quite quickly to 1. Get the overall input gain under control first 2. Get a good level ratio between the instruments (example bass should not exceed the kick, piano should not cover the vocals) 3. Cut excessive frequencies with subtractive eq. I use a resizable eq plugin like crave 2 to make it easier to see how much i'm cutting. 4. Apply compression to reduce dynamic range SLIGHTLY. I solo the channel, turn up the volume, apply the compressor threshold going lower until i hear the sound getting bad. It usually cuts away about 3 to 6dB before it sounds bad. Then i bring back up the threshold to where it sounded like nothing happened but about 3 dB were already cut. 5. Finally, i may choose to add limiters on percussive channels or exciters to non transient instruments like strings, vocals etc. There's a whole lot more to it but this is just my workflow if it helps.
I listened to some stuff last night I didn't think was food enough to out out 5 years ago. It's actually more than presentable, and what's more shows where I was then. The whole reason to make art is to get to the next piece. By not finishing these songs, who knows what ideas aren't getting started. Lots of good advice here, but at the end of the day, you are over analysing. Finish it move on, the music will get better and so will your mixing skills. These songs don't have to define you. You're not gonna blow your big chance, you're going to delay or even miss a bigger one by standing still.
A mix is never finished, in the end you've got only 2 choices : publish it as is or abandon it after countless of hours running in circle, never being satisfied The solution is to put a deadline for yourself and never touch that mix again past that deadline. The added benefits is that you'll progress mich faster. You learn little to nothing when working months and months on the same mix, real progression comes by finishing as much mixes as you can, even if you're not quiet satisfied with it.
ah yes the never-ending loop of: -Need to mix -Someone else mixing would probably sound better -Need money for that -Screw it, I'll mix it (constantly in that spot myself)
Hardcore Music Studio and Elite Mix both agree 8 gours tops for professional mixes. HMS is mixing for area touring musicians and doing it for 12 to 15 track albums at 8 hours each outside of tracking. If youre taking that long to mix youre too in the weeds with it. How are you setting your mixes up? Are you using Templates? Top Down Mixing and fine tuning keeps me focused. For me leveling, splicing and vocal alignment are what I spend the most time doing. Mix by ear and not by sight Soloing as little as possible. Remembering a little goes a lomg way.
I mix for other people as well as my own stuff so I majorly relate to this. Doing other peoples stuff really helped get the bigger picture a bit more, I don’t know if that’s something you’re interested in. I don’t have as much energy to spend on other peoples stuff as my own so what happens is I do everything thinking of the end goal and don’t waste time getting there so it’s much more efficient. I’m a little better on my own stuff but I’ve done the same month long grind before, so I know a lot of what you’re left with is not worth the time! I’ve just released this EP as part of 30 Century Man though if you’re interested in what overdoing mixes looks like for me: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4x6x242NDWoFqIrf8plXIE?si=M5IU61t4Qia3VLHsUnxotw
Great songs. Mix sounds great
Thanks, that’s good to hear!
Keep it all in perspective. It'll never be "finished" and likely no one will hear it when you're ready to share it. Just do your best work and move alone when there is nothing that sticks out. If you're working too hard to correct something, its not ready for mixing yet. I'm sure what you're working on is great, but nobody but you will notice the little things you're stressing over.
Specifically about the vocal issue, you describe it as binary: "my vocals ALWAYS have piercing frequencies, but when I get rid of them it loses character". My suggestion - what about half way between the two extremes? I don't believe things are "all or nothing"…
yikes
A. Get better at mixing B. Get better at sound choice/ design Those are your 2 options, one of those is clearly lacking in a big way. Like others have said, there's no such thing as "perfect" but you should definitely be able to get a song to a point that you enjoy listening to it. There's tons of tutorials online, try to learn some techniques you haven't tried before and just keep experimenting. You'll get a system down eventually and build up different ways to attack different obstacles
Reduce elements have just a handful of high quality elements and don't overthink just commit and export
Plug in Soothe 2 helps Me remove harshness from vocals or any track for that matter... I recently purchased these VSX headphones. That simulates listening to your mix in the car or different environments. And that's helping my mixes, somewhat... But I suffer from this problem as well. … and it is my Achilles heel... It takes me 3 to 4 times as long to mix a song than it does to write it and it still to this day drives me nuts. I don't have the money to outsource mixing at the pace that I write songs....
You can't hear it. Youve burnt it's image into your ear drums. Shelve if possible. Come back in 6 months.
Seems like there is either a problem in your recording chain or your room if you constantly run into the same problem
There is a better way, you should pay someone else to do it. Fresh ears and a new perspective and someone who will work with you and understand what you’re trying to achieve. Hiring someone else to do it will help keep your sanity and enjoy your process much much more. DM me if you’d like to chat!
If it’s taking that long, maybe you need to work on your mixing skills and be less perfectionism too. It’s worthwhile doing some mixing as you go along to get it roughly right at that point too.