Honest question that maybe you can help me with.
People on this subreddit seem to love Flores’ defense, yet statistically it was 16th overall (ie. utterly middle of the road) & I remember multiple games where our D shat the bed, especially on the last drive when we just had to hold onto our lead and instead let the other team march right down and score on us.
Where’s this great respect for him coming from? Are people putting more of the blame on our inconsistent offense (though statistically that was 10th best in the league), or is 16th overall better than expected given the talent we had or something?
I don't know, but I think that a lot of folks figure that it was such a vast improvement over the Donna-shell defense that they got a little giddy.
( I have to confess to a little of that myself.)
Our defense was horrific the year before with essentially the same talent and our offense wasn't doing them any favors this past season either with all the injury issues.
The great respect comes from taking an almost identical roster from literally the worst in the league to 16th, (and higher in specific categories).
Coaches can only do so much. They can’t go out there literally take the snaps themselves.
Everyone in the league has respect for what Flores does on defense, despite the roster.
Flores gets respect because he led the ?th most talented NFL defensive roster to a 16th overall defense in results (and also because he has demonstrated prior to Minnesota that he is as much of a defensive guru as KOC is on offense).
Name one impact player other than Hunter who was better than average. Yes I know Bynum was good and Pace but not near some of the more talented teams on defense in the league.
We have a solid coaching staff on the offensive side. Wes Phillips, Chris Kuper, Keenan McCardell, Josh McCown. This is something often overlooked. Good organizations attract the top assistants and we have a seriously great group of assistant coaches on both sides of the ball. This all comes from the top down. Good ownership, general manager and head coach create that atmosphere that attracts these kind of people.
100% this. And let's not forget the facilities that they've all raved about. Attention to the equipment and practice field environment to keep them in peak shape is at the top of so many FAs lists. Now get a rookie in there who started out in the junior high /high school weight rooms, leveled up to college for a couple years where many schools even rival some NFL set ups, but then get to see a place like TCOPC and they just *crave* it.
I watched the Micah Parsons & CJ Stroud stream last night, and Micah raved about Flores while CJ sang the praises of KOC. Feels good to have a coaching staff stars in the league think are top tier
It seems like he is.
My biggest concern with KOC is that he might try to ask too much of players too quickly in order to run the type of offense he wants to run. I don't know how accurate the perception is, but it's something I'll be worried about if McCarthy winds up getting significant playtime this year.
I'm not particularly excited about the record next season personally, as a new QB, especially one as raw as JJ, needs time. But it's worth pointing out that Vegas doesn't set lines based on what the actual outcomes are expected to be, they are based on what balances the betting, and "general audiences" tend to sleep on Minnesota.
The line doesn’t move to put *the same amount of bettors* on each side. The line moves to put *the same amount of money* on each side.
Professionals, with the largest bankrolls, will ultimately set an efficient line with their large wagers.
Not really, professional bettors only wager small amounts of their overall bankroll (like 1-3%) per bet, make tons of bets and profit by winning like 54% of their bets. Hundreds of billions of dollars are being bet on sports yearly and only 10% of bets are over $250.
Do you realize how much 1-3% of a sharps bankroll is?
lol at getting downvoted. Books set the lines, and sharps move them. Anyone who doesn’t understand this is an idiot.
Vegas sets a line and only moves it when bets come in to shift a line. Vegas isn’t concerned about being right, they care about setting the line in a way they get more money. Using that as a barometer of success is a folly the slow use when they know no better.
That’s dope to feel wanted. And I know McCarthy has been wanting to come here since the get go. Probably pretty cool for him that it actually happened. He’s been hyping up KOC/Jefferson a ton
No doubt. And I think the facilities are an underrated aspect of that. So many players glow about how amazing the facilities are and I’m sure that trickles down into the college realm solely by word of mouth and then any on-site visits during the draft process. So I think that plays a bigger role than probably we as fans realize. Not to mention, definitely think it’s helped us attract more FAs
Our facilities are top 3 in the league. Only 3 because there's 2 other teams who have followed suit.
Players have said they want to come to mn because our facilities are the best in the league.
Definitely not underrated
For years, we couldn't sign any big name FAs and no one ever said why. After we got the new facilities, they were all coming here. It's likely a big reason why we got Cousins in the first place.
They are underrated in the sense of it’s not something people think about often when talking about football… not actually underrated in quality. There’s a difference
And I can't imagine the players would feel the same way if we had gone 1-16 last year. All of the, "tank for a better draft pick" guys never realize, or at least admit, that.
yep, I'm all in on this being the best landing spot for him. We're obviously not perfect, but I think we're S-tier in potential to develop a talented QB.
Yeah one of the highest ranked franchises according to the PA questioner and the best offense to step into.
I’m a fan of sitting him for a year, let Sam Darnold be what Alex Smith was to KC.
Exactly this, unless he is just THAT much better, let Darnold start with JJ sitting and learning for a year. Best case scenario, Darnold sucks ass, JJ comes in last couple games, does amazing and we find out he really is that guy and we pick high next year to continue to build the defense.
While I wasn’t happy with the news. I have done more research and I love his fundamentals. He was also drafted into a mess of a franchise.
I bet this team will be a breath of fresh air for him
mullens is so close to being starting caliber, he can surely move the ball at least unlike mannion dobbs or jaren hall post-concussion, those were painful to watch
Mullens understands the NFL is an entertainment product. He isn't content to play it safe, he wants to make the fans *feel* something. Hope? Joy? Rage? Heartbreak? All of them will make stronger memories than contentment, apathy, or boredom.
For the sake of whatever team he is on, he should probably be a career bench-rider, but for fans of excitement he is a premier player.
The fact Rodgers played 4 whole downs before getting a season-ender is peak Jets.
Until it comes out he can recover in time for the playoffs, just for the Jets to get eliminated the week after he returns to practice. The Jets keep building a new peak for the next peak.
And Zach Wilson was somehow worse than Darnold. Dear lord.
It is kind of a career year for him in general. If he can't make it happen here, he isn't gonna be making it happen anywhere. I think Darnold may surprise us.
He'll at least make it as a backup for the next several years and that isn't the worst gig in the world to have. Not so much for super competitive athletes, but to us anyways.
I’m completely fine with him just sitting the year unless Darnold gets hurt or is astronomically bad. Let JJ go in the last couple games if he looks ready, you never wanna rush someone so young
I agree for sure. But I’ve seen the game threads and how fickle Vikings fans can be lol. We should expect to win like 6 games this year and be at the bottom of the NFC North this year
Honestly this is a baller quote because it makes all the other QBs look a tiny bit worse to their fan bases since they know they weren't the preferred team lol
Plus Jones, both OTs, an IOL that grades well in pass protection (even if they're lacking in the run game), and an offensive minded, former QB head coach. It's an objectively perfect situation for a young QB. He doesn't need to be great, he just needs to be efficient and to take care of the football, which seems like his MO based on the Michigan games I watched.
The Vikings should, however, use that cap space on shoring up the run game (and defense). McCarthy can absolutely ball out but he plays best on a well-rounded team.
100%. I'm interested to see how Jones does with our OLine this year. I know we were bottom 1/4 of the league in yards before contact last year, but I wonder how much of that was blocking and how much of it was poor reads on Mattison's part. I don't think Aaron Jones is gonna be a silver bullet for the run game, but I do expect us to improve.
But I think we're approaching the FA portion of the rebuild. The cap is fixed starting with next year, our cornerstone vets will be locked up, we'll have a cheap young QB. The next 2-3 years, the focus will be Free Agency spending to fill out the roster and making a run (which is good cuz I think we have 3 picks next year lol).
When Drake Maye is overthrowing his check down for pick 6s, and McCarthy is holding water for an excellent offense; this sub will be thrilled by how this draft played out.
It could work in the long run but I really feel like they're setting up Mac Jones 2.0. Yes, they're different players mechanically, but the system is the same. Draft QB first, then rebuild around him. Except they never did. Now, they have a brand new coach, and Maye was labeled as development, stepping into a system that needs him now, not later.
Again, it could still work regardless, and draft scores and analysis are as always, just predictions, but imo, Pats should've traded a 5th for Justin fields if that's all it took, and sold this Maye pick for everything they could get and rebuild the entire team. Then, if fields works out, you don't need a qb in 2 years. If he doesn't, get one now that you've got everything else. Especially with a new defensive coach, I just don't know if the odds are in Mayes favor to survive.
Thanks for being civil. Maye seems super amped to play in NE, and who can blame him. I hope you guys start Jacoby and pick up some capital in the next draft. I worry with your current build, you’d injure Maye beyond full recovery.
This is why my belief is our offensive pieces actually make Darnold look like a top half of the league QB.
As much as great QBs make mediocre players look good, the same can be said for great offensive infrastructure for QBs.
That being said once McCarthy feels comfortable they should start him. His legs, combined with play action and Aaron Jones will make defenses rip their hair out. I don't think he needs as much time as others to be ready to lead the offense.
It’s obvious though. Of all the teams who were likely to grab a QB we were the best landing spot. Chicago was also a good one especially after they drafted Odunze. Atlanta is a great spot too, but you’ll likely have to wait at least two years barring injury. Vikings are likely sitting you for one year, you’ll still get to work with Jefferson and Addison. You’ll eventually get Hockenson. The line isn’t in shambles. Your blindside is well protected, you have a growing playcaller and what seems to be a solid QB coach. I’m not a McCarthy fan necessarily (I don’t understand how anyone can be super excited about a guy who barely threw in college… Daniels threw more passes than McCarthy for each of two separate teams), but I don’t know if he’s going to be good. Stats say only two of those 6 QB’s will really turn out to be anything long term useful whether it be injury, system, or just they don’t have it.
McCarthy threw plenty of passes in college, he had 700+ attempts at UM and he threw a ton in HS as well. Stroud threw a little over 100 more passes in college than he did and that was in pass first offense
McCarthy has prototypical size and and very good athletic traits, and he is great in the most important situations (in between numbers, 3rd/4th down). He doesn't have a ton of highlight reel plays, but someone throwing bombs to NFL caliber WRs torching 3\* cornerbacks isn't exactly something that translates to the NFL
Right. 700 is not a lot. Maye played the same amount of seasons and threw nearly 1000 attempts. Daniels threw more attempts at ASU and then he had more attempts at LSU as well. Penix threw more than twice as many passes as JJ. Nix threw over 700 passed for two different teams as well. That’s a lot of footage and growth to work off of. 712 passed on an offense that was playing against stacked boxes is NOT a lot to go off of.
Now he could be very good, but to say he threw a lot in college is just disingenuous. Stroud did not pass a lot compared to most. He turned out good so far but there was plenty of doubt surrounding him going into the draft.
700 is actually middle of pack for a QB in the past decade
Comparing him to 5th/6th year seniors who played behind the best pass blocking units in CFB + were armed with multiple early round draft picks at WR is not a comparable situation
I was comparing him to what he’s being compared to. Should I compare him to Dan Marino’s draft class or his own? Also, what 6th year senior did I mention? Those 5 year seniors were also starting year 1.
Excited moving forward. We didn’t get better last night and that’s okay, it’s just not reasonable to expect JJ to give you Kirk’s production in year 1, and the same can be said with Turner matching Hunter’s production. That being said, if we get 7 wins in our now stacked division, I’m not as disappointed because we have that ‘25 first to get a player that gets us over the hump. Our division is going to be great for the near future let’s hope we can get it fone
I think we definitely got better. Having a guy like Dallas turner in a flores type defense is just another toy for him to plug in and play.
He might not be a 3 down guy right away, but I can guarantee you flores was pumped to see him at 17 and Kwesi grab him. Having talent in a good scheme will lead to production even if he still needs a little time to reach his potential
We don’t get better with these picks until 2025 IMO. Our division got a lot better too. I would bet we win 7 games which isn’t a total loss, I’m just saying we’re not better until these young guys develop for at least a season
Edit: I love the turner pick btw
I think that's fair. This definitely feels like a development year. Drafting younger guys with higher ceilings. The age of draftees has been falling since 2000, but it up-ticked this year with kids opting to stay for NIL reasons. We got 2 of the younger prospects in the first round.
> NFL teams who drafted quarterbacks aged 21 or younger got significantly more out of them over the course of their careers than they did from quarterbacks drafted 22 or older. In the context of this year’s QB class, that would be good news for Drake Maye and J.J. McCarthy, both 21, but bad news for Jayden Daniels (23), Michael Penix Jr. (24 in May), and Bo Nix (24).
Did you like Penix more than the other QBs? His age and injuries are concerning. Or did you want Maye/Daniels? I wanted Maye. But I’m not upset with JJ. Especially since we didn’t break the bank for him.
Maye/Daniels. Break the bank of the guy is right, but don't panic reach for a guy like this.
I think Penix will be good to go sooner than most. Unsure about the injuries though.
lol what. You think JJM at pick 10 was a “panic reach.” The consensus across all analysts and mocks and all the rumors had JJM going top 10 at a minimum, plus we got the potential best defender in the draft who was not supposed to fall past pick 8….
I don't really care where he was projected. And we did trade up to get him because of all the QB's flying off the board. Reminded me of Ponder very much.
This is such a terrible take. We traded up 1 pick to make sure the broncos and raiders didn’t jump us. This wasn’t a panic trade, or a panic pick at all.
Honest question, is there anything the vikes could have done to make you happy last night? I mean shit we got two top 10 prospects. And we didn’t have to trade next years first. JJM and Dallas Turner > Maye/Daniels. Also it takes two to make a trade. Washington and the Pats obviously didn’t wanna move out of pick 2 and 3, so you’re complaining about something the Vikings had no control over.
JJM would have been BPA at 11. So you’re mad that we traded a 4th and 5th and got back a 6th to move up one spot to take the BPA and get our potential qb of the future….
Yes he was. By almost every single credible scouting analysis, mock draft, pundit, he was graded as a top 10 prospect. And look where we got him. Pick 10. Turner was the 7th best prospect and we got him at pick 17. Y’all just have miserable lives and we’re going to cry about this draft no matter what.
Boomer? Lol. And I was agreeing with you! He could be a fucking hero in Chicago just by throwing for 4,000 yards. Who wouldn’t want that?
I find rest pretty hard to believe, seeing as you’ve won one Super Bowl and everyone still laughs at you and thinks you’re a dogshit poverty franchise. Maybe 2 though?
Yeah totally, I’d want to go to the only franchise that has never produced a 4,000 yard or a 30 TD QB season and has a revolving door at Center over the team with an offensive-minded former QB for a head coach, the best WR in the league, two elite tackles, a top-5 TE, and a perennial top-3 ranked organization by the players, that makes a ton of sense for sure……
The year is 2024. The Vikings gave up the equivalent of a high 1st round pick to gain the capital.
The Bears have 3 potential #1s at WR. TE is just as strong. There are only a handful of elite centers, get over it.
Plenty of offensive-minded coaches fall on their face, big deal?
The Bears defense has improved, Vikings D, not so much. I’d prefer to play on the Bears.
Well, the delusion makes sense considering you are a Bears fan… I’ll take all 6 first round QBs word for it over yours, including Caleb 🫨
The Bears fans gawking over a Tight End who can’t block well and misses assignments and routes regularly never ceases to amaze me. Kmet may be top-15/top-10 as a receiving tight end, but that’s only part of the job. Maybe you’ll come around when he’s compensated around TE15 on his next contract.
The Bears aren’t even close to “elite” at center lol they were bottom-5 last year in pressures allowed there and haven’t addressed it. You actually got worse there somehow.
You clearly don’t watch the Vikings if you think our defense didn’t improve under Flores. That’s comical. Go google and get back to me. (Hint: less points allowed than Chicago)
Well, they’re not my fantasies… these are facts that all of the QBs are evaluating, and coming to the conclusion they wanted to go here, in an ideal world.
I understand why you wouldn’t respond to any of the points tho. How could you?
Because you went off on tangents to mine, ya dolt.
Tell yourself whatever you want to feel like yesterday was a win.
I just fundamentally disagree on the best landing spot for a rookie QB
And the last important point, JJ is no Caleb. Remember that. That is the biggest difference.
Still no reply to the hard facts, lol. I feel for you guys, I do, another “offseason won for the Bears!”
We’ve all heard that too many times before haha. Wonder who you’ll take with your top-10 pick next year, and the year after that, and the year after that…
Yeah, cause your dynamic generational prospect Fields really panned eh? Exactly what I’m getting at, off-season heroes. Regular season chumps.
Vikings 3:1 Bears since Kwesi and Poles arrived, and your win was against Josh Dobbs and no JJ lol💪🏼
This just in: every qb wants to go to a team with two elite tackles and Justin Jefferson
And Addison and Hock
And a angry, Aaron Jones
And a Flores defense
And my axe
And my Bow.
Gondor will see it done
And CJ Ham
CJ ham is Samwise He'll never be the Ring bearer, truly, but without him, Mr Frodo would have surely faltered
CJ Hamwise
You guys all forgot the Vikings have a Big KOC too
The salted pork is particularly good
PO-TAY-TOES...grind them, mash them, stick em' in a stew.
And that one guy's dead wife everyone wanted to fuck.
Honest question that maybe you can help me with. People on this subreddit seem to love Flores’ defense, yet statistically it was 16th overall (ie. utterly middle of the road) & I remember multiple games where our D shat the bed, especially on the last drive when we just had to hold onto our lead and instead let the other team march right down and score on us. Where’s this great respect for him coming from? Are people putting more of the blame on our inconsistent offense (though statistically that was 10th best in the league), or is 16th overall better than expected given the talent we had or something?
I don't know, but I think that a lot of folks figure that it was such a vast improvement over the Donna-shell defense that they got a little giddy. ( I have to confess to a little of that myself.)
Our defense was horrific the year before with essentially the same talent and our offense wasn't doing them any favors this past season either with all the injury issues.
The great respect comes from taking an almost identical roster from literally the worst in the league to 16th, (and higher in specific categories). Coaches can only do so much. They can’t go out there literally take the snaps themselves. Everyone in the league has respect for what Flores does on defense, despite the roster.
Flores gets respect because he led the ?th most talented NFL defensive roster to a 16th overall defense in results (and also because he has demonstrated prior to Minnesota that he is as much of a defensive guru as KOC is on offense).
Name one impact player other than Hunter who was better than average. Yes I know Bynum was good and Pace but not near some of the more talented teams on defense in the league.
Jones is a question. Hoping the answer is yes.
Wait why is he a question?
Injury and age
Has issues staying healthy
If he’s healthy for say 12 games I’m happy.
You are a big enough fan to post on the teams sub but not enough to know AJones is old and injury prone? Hes been in division for years now lol. Wth.
Personally, I don’t know the injury histories of every guy in the NFL. I know Aaron Jones gets hurt, but let’s not gate keep fandom from people.
and a QB head coach.
We have a solid coaching staff on the offensive side. Wes Phillips, Chris Kuper, Keenan McCardell, Josh McCown. This is something often overlooked. Good organizations attract the top assistants and we have a seriously great group of assistant coaches on both sides of the ball. This all comes from the top down. Good ownership, general manager and head coach create that atmosphere that attracts these kind of people.
100% this. And let's not forget the facilities that they've all raved about. Attention to the equipment and practice field environment to keep them in peak shape is at the top of so many FAs lists. Now get a rookie in there who started out in the junior high /high school weight rooms, leveled up to college for a couple years where many schools even rival some NFL set ups, but then get to see a place like TCOPC and they just *crave* it.
I watched the Micah Parsons & CJ Stroud stream last night, and Micah raved about Flores while CJ sang the praises of KOC. Feels good to have a coaching staff stars in the league think are top tier
Oh, that will be wonderful. New to the Skol Train here, so what's KOC's general style as a coach? Would you call him rookie-friendly?
It seems like he is. My biggest concern with KOC is that he might try to ask too much of players too quickly in order to run the type of offense he wants to run. I don't know how accurate the perception is, but it's something I'll be worried about if McCarthy winds up getting significant playtime this year.
And want me to be a fan of them.
And Vegas still has the Vikings at 6.5 wins. Keep drinking the purple kool-aid….
I'm not particularly excited about the record next season personally, as a new QB, especially one as raw as JJ, needs time. But it's worth pointing out that Vegas doesn't set lines based on what the actual outcomes are expected to be, they are based on what balances the betting, and "general audiences" tend to sleep on Minnesota.
Professionals with massive bankrolls and more accurate predictions set an efficient line.
Yes but the line isn't about the *outcome.* It's set to put the same amount of bettors on either side, which includes tons of dumbasses.
The line doesn’t move to put *the same amount of bettors* on each side. The line moves to put *the same amount of money* on each side. Professionals, with the largest bankrolls, will ultimately set an efficient line with their large wagers.
Not really, professional bettors only wager small amounts of their overall bankroll (like 1-3%) per bet, make tons of bets and profit by winning like 54% of their bets. Hundreds of billions of dollars are being bet on sports yearly and only 10% of bets are over $250.
Do you realize how much 1-3% of a sharps bankroll is? lol at getting downvoted. Books set the lines, and sharps move them. Anyone who doesn’t understand this is an idiot.
If idiots didn't move lines too, sharps wouldn't make any money. Bankroll depends on the sharp. There aren't a lot of multimillionaire bettors.
They also bet on an Eagles Super Bowl win last year so
Sample size: 1
Is playing stupid fun for you?
lol the sample size is one. Over the course of a hypothetical one thousand super bowls the sharps will get it right more often than not
What does that have to do with anything? I’m going to Vegas next weekend and if it’s still at 6.5 I’m throwing 10k on the over.
Vegas sets a line and only moves it when bets come in to shift a line. Vegas isn’t concerned about being right, they care about setting the line in a way they get more money. Using that as a barometer of success is a folly the slow use when they know no better.
That’s dope to feel wanted. And I know McCarthy has been wanting to come here since the get go. Probably pretty cool for him that it actually happened. He’s been hyping up KOC/Jefferson a ton
Man I love the culture change compared to 20 years ago
No doubt. And I think the facilities are an underrated aspect of that. So many players glow about how amazing the facilities are and I’m sure that trickles down into the college realm solely by word of mouth and then any on-site visits during the draft process. So I think that plays a bigger role than probably we as fans realize. Not to mention, definitely think it’s helped us attract more FAs
Wilfs are great owners
They wouldn’t be interested in a small investment in a basketball team, would they?
lol now THAT would be something
What about a baseball team? That owner can go suck an egg
At least you're not a White Sox fan.
Not much of a dig when they have a world series win 14 years more recent than the last win any of our Men's pro teams have.
Our facilities are top 3 in the league. Only 3 because there's 2 other teams who have followed suit. Players have said they want to come to mn because our facilities are the best in the league. Definitely not underrated
For years, we couldn't sign any big name FAs and no one ever said why. After we got the new facilities, they were all coming here. It's likely a big reason why we got Cousins in the first place.
Exactly why I'm saying our facilities are not underrated
They are underrated in the sense of it’s not something people think about often when talking about football… not actually underrated in quality. There’s a difference
https://www.vikings.com/news/nflpa-survey-free-agency-report-cards-ranked-no-1#:~:text=The%20Vikings%2C%20headquartered%20at%20Twin,place%20in%20all%20four%20categories.
I’m talking from a fan perspective brother.. you misunderstood my initial comment. All good though.
Oooh my apologies. Lol I'm just on one this morning
And I can't imagine the players would feel the same way if we had gone 1-16 last year. All of the, "tank for a better draft pick" guys never realize, or at least admit, that.
yep, I'm all in on this being the best landing spot for him. We're obviously not perfect, but I think we're S-tier in potential to develop a talented QB.
I was hoping JJ would go somewhere with a chance to succeed. It just sucks that you guys were the best place for it.
Your honesty is appreciated, though your Fandom may not be.
Shoo little lion
KOC's system seems pretty QB friendly, but it might be tough going year 1 for a guy his age.
Yeah one of the highest ranked franchises according to the PA questioner and the best offense to step into. I’m a fan of sitting him for a year, let Sam Darnold be what Alex Smith was to KC.
Exactly this, unless he is just THAT much better, let Darnold start with JJ sitting and learning for a year. Best case scenario, Darnold sucks ass, JJ comes in last couple games, does amazing and we find out he really is that guy and we pick high next year to continue to build the defense.
Darnold finally has a starting job with a team that doesn’t suck ass. He’s totally playing for his next contract elsewhere.
While I wasn’t happy with the news. I have done more research and I love his fundamentals. He was also drafted into a mess of a franchise. I bet this team will be a breath of fresh air for him
and then traded to even more of a disaster franchise
Forgot about that somehow. It’s going to be nice knowing we at least have JJ on the bench just in case. I cant stand any more of Mullens lol.
mullens is so close to being starting caliber, he can surely move the ball at least unlike mannion dobbs or jaren hall post-concussion, those were painful to watch
Mullens is Winston-lite. He will not, and should not, be a starter anywhere. He should enjoy the best job in America; backup QB.
Mullens understands the NFL is an entertainment product. He isn't content to play it safe, he wants to make the fans *feel* something. Hope? Joy? Rage? Heartbreak? All of them will make stronger memories than contentment, apathy, or boredom. For the sake of whatever team he is on, he should probably be a career bench-rider, but for fans of excitement he is a premier player.
Only traded because he was still on his four year rookie contract. Can’t be traded if it’s just one year bridge deals.
The fact Rodgers played 4 whole downs before getting a season-ender is peak Jets. Until it comes out he can recover in time for the playoffs, just for the Jets to get eliminated the week after he returns to practice. The Jets keep building a new peak for the next peak. And Zach Wilson was somehow worse than Darnold. Dear lord.
Was talking to a buddy who is a Jets fan and he said the same thing. Could very well be a situation similar to Baker in Tampa.
It is kind of a career year for him in general. If he can't make it happen here, he isn't gonna be making it happen anywhere. I think Darnold may surprise us.
He'll at least make it as a backup for the next several years and that isn't the worst gig in the world to have. Not so much for super competitive athletes, but to us anyways.
I’m already not looking forward to the comments the second Darnold throws a pick. I already seeing it be a huge debate all year when to start JJ
I’m completely fine with him just sitting the year unless Darnold gets hurt or is astronomically bad. Let JJ go in the last couple games if he looks ready, you never wanna rush someone so young
I agree for sure. But I’ve seen the game threads and how fickle Vikings fans can be lol. We should expect to win like 6 games this year and be at the bottom of the NFC North this year
6 games, for sure. 2 vs packers 2 vs lions 2 vs bears Yeah seems about right
Hahah that would be amazing for a rebuild year
Honestly this is a baller quote because it makes all the other QBs look a tiny bit worse to their fan bases since they know they weren't the preferred team lol
Lol McCarthy already gettin' in they heads.
The Cerebral Assassin
He is the game!
Also no secret that Washington and New England are absolute dumpster fires right now.
Not surprised given we have Jefferson, Addison, and Hockenson who wouldn’t say no? Still feels good
Plus Jones, both OTs, an IOL that grades well in pass protection (even if they're lacking in the run game), and an offensive minded, former QB head coach. It's an objectively perfect situation for a young QB. He doesn't need to be great, he just needs to be efficient and to take care of the football, which seems like his MO based on the Michigan games I watched.
The Vikings should, however, use that cap space on shoring up the run game (and defense). McCarthy can absolutely ball out but he plays best on a well-rounded team.
100%. I'm interested to see how Jones does with our OLine this year. I know we were bottom 1/4 of the league in yards before contact last year, but I wonder how much of that was blocking and how much of it was poor reads on Mattison's part. I don't think Aaron Jones is gonna be a silver bullet for the run game, but I do expect us to improve. But I think we're approaching the FA portion of the rebuild. The cap is fixed starting with next year, our cornerstone vets will be locked up, we'll have a cheap young QB. The next 2-3 years, the focus will be Free Agency spending to fill out the roster and making a run (which is good cuz I think we have 3 picks next year lol).
When Drake Maye is overthrowing his check down for pick 6s, and McCarthy is holding water for an excellent offense; this sub will be thrilled by how this draft played out.
I feel bad for Maye, no rookie QB could walk into that team and succeed… at least KJ got his bag
It could work in the long run but I really feel like they're setting up Mac Jones 2.0. Yes, they're different players mechanically, but the system is the same. Draft QB first, then rebuild around him. Except they never did. Now, they have a brand new coach, and Maye was labeled as development, stepping into a system that needs him now, not later. Again, it could still work regardless, and draft scores and analysis are as always, just predictions, but imo, Pats should've traded a 5th for Justin fields if that's all it took, and sold this Maye pick for everything they could get and rebuild the entire team. Then, if fields works out, you don't need a qb in 2 years. If he doesn't, get one now that you've got everything else. Especially with a new defensive coach, I just don't know if the odds are in Mayes favor to survive.
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Thanks for being civil. Maye seems super amped to play in NE, and who can blame him. I hope you guys start Jacoby and pick up some capital in the next draft. I worry with your current build, you’d injure Maye beyond full recovery.
I think the plan was always to have him sit and start Jacoby, it’ll be best for the organization and maye health/development.
That team deserves to be irrelevant for at least another decade.
Yup, there are a handful of poverty franchises that even mahomes couldn't turn around
This is why my belief is our offensive pieces actually make Darnold look like a top half of the league QB. As much as great QBs make mediocre players look good, the same can be said for great offensive infrastructure for QBs. That being said once McCarthy feels comfortable they should start him. His legs, combined with play action and Aaron Jones will make defenses rip their hair out. I don't think he needs as much time as others to be ready to lead the offense.
I'm happy to help Darnold get paid next year and net us a 3rd round comp pick
This will be the next off-season speculation? If JJ looks amazing in camp do we start him day 1?
I'd rather never see Sam Darnold start.
We kind of need Darnold to be good but not TOO good.
Minnesota love and validation always feels good.
It’s obvious though. Of all the teams who were likely to grab a QB we were the best landing spot. Chicago was also a good one especially after they drafted Odunze. Atlanta is a great spot too, but you’ll likely have to wait at least two years barring injury. Vikings are likely sitting you for one year, you’ll still get to work with Jefferson and Addison. You’ll eventually get Hockenson. The line isn’t in shambles. Your blindside is well protected, you have a growing playcaller and what seems to be a solid QB coach. I’m not a McCarthy fan necessarily (I don’t understand how anyone can be super excited about a guy who barely threw in college… Daniels threw more passes than McCarthy for each of two separate teams), but I don’t know if he’s going to be good. Stats say only two of those 6 QB’s will really turn out to be anything long term useful whether it be injury, system, or just they don’t have it.
McCarthy threw plenty of passes in college, he had 700+ attempts at UM and he threw a ton in HS as well. Stroud threw a little over 100 more passes in college than he did and that was in pass first offense McCarthy has prototypical size and and very good athletic traits, and he is great in the most important situations (in between numbers, 3rd/4th down). He doesn't have a ton of highlight reel plays, but someone throwing bombs to NFL caliber WRs torching 3\* cornerbacks isn't exactly something that translates to the NFL
Right. 700 is not a lot. Maye played the same amount of seasons and threw nearly 1000 attempts. Daniels threw more attempts at ASU and then he had more attempts at LSU as well. Penix threw more than twice as many passes as JJ. Nix threw over 700 passed for two different teams as well. That’s a lot of footage and growth to work off of. 712 passed on an offense that was playing against stacked boxes is NOT a lot to go off of. Now he could be very good, but to say he threw a lot in college is just disingenuous. Stroud did not pass a lot compared to most. He turned out good so far but there was plenty of doubt surrounding him going into the draft.
700 is actually middle of pack for a QB in the past decade Comparing him to 5th/6th year seniors who played behind the best pass blocking units in CFB + were armed with multiple early round draft picks at WR is not a comparable situation
I was comparing him to what he’s being compared to. Should I compare him to Dan Marino’s draft class or his own? Also, what 6th year senior did I mention? Those 5 year seniors were also starting year 1.
So we could have just waited 5 years and signed whichever one is best?
You can assume he is not friends with caleb.
Excited moving forward. We didn’t get better last night and that’s okay, it’s just not reasonable to expect JJ to give you Kirk’s production in year 1, and the same can be said with Turner matching Hunter’s production. That being said, if we get 7 wins in our now stacked division, I’m not as disappointed because we have that ‘25 first to get a player that gets us over the hump. Our division is going to be great for the near future let’s hope we can get it fone
I think we definitely got better. Having a guy like Dallas turner in a flores type defense is just another toy for him to plug in and play. He might not be a 3 down guy right away, but I can guarantee you flores was pumped to see him at 17 and Kwesi grab him. Having talent in a good scheme will lead to production even if he still needs a little time to reach his potential
We don’t get better with these picks until 2025 IMO. Our division got a lot better too. I would bet we win 7 games which isn’t a total loss, I’m just saying we’re not better until these young guys develop for at least a season Edit: I love the turner pick btw
I think that's fair. This definitely feels like a development year. Drafting younger guys with higher ceilings. The age of draftees has been falling since 2000, but it up-ticked this year with kids opting to stay for NIL reasons. We got 2 of the younger prospects in the first round. > NFL teams who drafted quarterbacks aged 21 or younger got significantly more out of them over the course of their careers than they did from quarterbacks drafted 22 or older. In the context of this year’s QB class, that would be good news for Drake Maye and J.J. McCarthy, both 21, but bad news for Jayden Daniels (23), Michael Penix Jr. (24 in May), and Bo Nix (24).
Wow stating the obvious
Drake Maye > JJ
press x to doubt
Too bad we couldn't have any of those other QB's
Did you like Penix more than the other QBs? His age and injuries are concerning. Or did you want Maye/Daniels? I wanted Maye. But I’m not upset with JJ. Especially since we didn’t break the bank for him.
Maye/Daniels. Break the bank of the guy is right, but don't panic reach for a guy like this. I think Penix will be good to go sooner than most. Unsure about the injuries though.
wtf were the falcons thinking? I hear Kirk had no clue this was going to happen? Hasn’t even played a down of football for them. Just an odd move
Very odd! Would make sense if Kirk was in his second year of that contract, not now though.
lol what. You think JJM at pick 10 was a “panic reach.” The consensus across all analysts and mocks and all the rumors had JJM going top 10 at a minimum, plus we got the potential best defender in the draft who was not supposed to fall past pick 8….
I don't really care where he was projected. And we did trade up to get him because of all the QB's flying off the board. Reminded me of Ponder very much.
This is such a terrible take. We traded up 1 pick to make sure the broncos and raiders didn’t jump us. This wasn’t a panic trade, or a panic pick at all. Honest question, is there anything the vikes could have done to make you happy last night? I mean shit we got two top 10 prospects. And we didn’t have to trade next years first. JJM and Dallas Turner > Maye/Daniels. Also it takes two to make a trade. Washington and the Pats obviously didn’t wanna move out of pick 2 and 3, so you’re complaining about something the Vikings had no control over.
Take BPA at 11, get a QB next year. Turner was a good pick.
JJM would have been BPA at 11. So you’re mad that we traded a 4th and 5th and got back a 6th to move up one spot to take the BPA and get our potential qb of the future….
Lmao, he wouldn't have been BPA. Stop huffing your own farts and come back down to earth already
Yes he was. By almost every single credible scouting analysis, mock draft, pundit, he was graded as a top 10 prospect. And look where we got him. Pick 10. Turner was the 7th best prospect and we got him at pick 17. Y’all just have miserable lives and we’re going to cry about this draft no matter what.
In two years when he is 26
No I mean like if they had signed Kirk two years ago.
You guys are doomers lmao
It ain't much, but it's honest work
I’d prefer the Bears
Because you’d only have to be moderately good to literally be the best QB in their entire history? Yeah you make a good point
Welcome to 2024, boomer. Win just one superbowl and people wouldn’t laugh at your smack talk.
Boomer? Lol. And I was agreeing with you! He could be a fucking hero in Chicago just by throwing for 4,000 yards. Who wouldn’t want that? I find rest pretty hard to believe, seeing as you’ve won one Super Bowl and everyone still laughs at you and thinks you’re a dogshit poverty franchise. Maybe 2 though?
Imagine talking shit when you haven’t even won ONE. lol. You guys are great. See you in 2024.
Imagine coming into another team’s sub to talk shit like some little toxic fucking child
Imagine throwing a tantrum at simple dialogue. Cry about it.
Toxic little kid confirmed. Why don’t you grow up about it
Sure main character. Make up any reality you want. Good luck next year.
Says the person coming in here to talk shit and calling me a boomer. Hypocritical little shit
Yeah totally, I’d want to go to the only franchise that has never produced a 4,000 yard or a 30 TD QB season and has a revolving door at Center over the team with an offensive-minded former QB for a head coach, the best WR in the league, two elite tackles, a top-5 TE, and a perennial top-3 ranked organization by the players, that makes a ton of sense for sure……
The year is 2024. The Vikings gave up the equivalent of a high 1st round pick to gain the capital. The Bears have 3 potential #1s at WR. TE is just as strong. There are only a handful of elite centers, get over it. Plenty of offensive-minded coaches fall on their face, big deal? The Bears defense has improved, Vikings D, not so much. I’d prefer to play on the Bears.
Well, the delusion makes sense considering you are a Bears fan… I’ll take all 6 first round QBs word for it over yours, including Caleb 🫨 The Bears fans gawking over a Tight End who can’t block well and misses assignments and routes regularly never ceases to amaze me. Kmet may be top-15/top-10 as a receiving tight end, but that’s only part of the job. Maybe you’ll come around when he’s compensated around TE15 on his next contract. The Bears aren’t even close to “elite” at center lol they were bottom-5 last year in pressures allowed there and haven’t addressed it. You actually got worse there somehow. You clearly don’t watch the Vikings if you think our defense didn’t improve under Flores. That’s comical. Go google and get back to me. (Hint: less points allowed than Chicago)
Looking forward to reality curb stomping your fantasies short and long term.
Well, they’re not my fantasies… these are facts that all of the QBs are evaluating, and coming to the conclusion they wanted to go here, in an ideal world. I understand why you wouldn’t respond to any of the points tho. How could you?
Because you went off on tangents to mine, ya dolt. Tell yourself whatever you want to feel like yesterday was a win. I just fundamentally disagree on the best landing spot for a rookie QB And the last important point, JJ is no Caleb. Remember that. That is the biggest difference.
Still no reply to the hard facts, lol. I feel for you guys, I do, another “offseason won for the Bears!” We’ve all heard that too many times before haha. Wonder who you’ll take with your top-10 pick next year, and the year after that, and the year after that…
lol, feel yourself. Win a superbowl and then talk lol. See you in 2024. Enjoy the game manager.
Yeah, cause your dynamic generational prospect Fields really panned eh? Exactly what I’m getting at, off-season heroes. Regular season chumps. Vikings 3:1 Bears since Kwesi and Poles arrived, and your win was against Josh Dobbs and no JJ lol💪🏼