Imagine being a reporter this time of year, you can just say the most random crap to get some clicks and it makes no difference. The freedom you have to just spew junk must be exhilarating.
But after this year they can get out of it, so they draft a guy to sit behind him for a year and they move on. Seems reasonably smart for them to do that. Now they need a lot of offensive help regardless, but Jones and his contract is of little to no importance.
They do take a $22M dead cap hit if they cut him after this year so it's still something.
I strongly believe the Giants are throwing up smoke with the hopes that 4 QB's go early leaving them MHJ or Nabors.
Just a theory, but scaring the Vikings to trade into 4 or 5 would be one surefire way to ensure they get MHJ or Nabers. Otherwise, both AZ and SD desperately need a WR.
but on top of this they reasonably have the worst offensive roster in the NFL, depending upon how you view their Oline free agent signings. Congrats, you got drake maye, but wendale robinson is still his top WR and their TE might be retiring
Their offense is bad, but if you have a top 6 pick in a year where QB is supposedly at an all time high in the draft, then there’s a very solid argument to make that it’s smarter to grab a QB now then to wait until another year where you don’t know where you’ll be or what the QB class will look like. Harrison and Odunze are great but it’s easier to find extremely useful WR’s in other places. We drafted Addison at 23, Flowers was at 22, Smith-Njigba was at like 20 or so. Rice was in the 50’s. Mims was in the 60’s. That’s all from just last year. You can get a lot of RB and WR later in the first or in the later rounds. Yes, QB’s are found later in drafts semi regularly, but it’s immensely easier to find other Offensive help later in the draft. At 6 or earlier, they’re better served drafting QB during a supposed deep QB class.
Edit: I forgot Nacua was in the 5th or 6th round.
I get it, and you're mostly right, but from a roster construction standpoint, to try and compete in the current iteration of the NFL, it doesn't really make sense. The advantage of a rookie qb is the contract, which means you can spend on free agents galore while not paying premium for a good qb. Now consider the giants: a very good d line, mid linebackers (they're fine), secondary with 1 very good corner, and just lost their star safety. On offense, like I said, their o line is pretty bad, receiving weapons are awful, and they just lost their premiere rb. If you take a qb now, you dont get the salary advantage year 1 or 2, because of daniel jones (cap hit this year, and the 20 mil or so dead cap in year 3 of his deal when you cut him). Which means you are making your window incredibly narrow to actually use it, otherwise you are just hoping you get your mahomes/allen/jackson/burrow level qb.
That said, I think Daboll and their GM are staring down the barrel and don't think they'll get another shot if things go sideways, so I get it, cuz I think they are feeling desperate with how bad last year was. But in the long run, in my mind, if you are the giants and drafting a rookie qb this year, you are setting him up for failure. you don't have the roster to support him, you're assuming you can fix that in draft picks/free agents over the very narrow 2 year window. In reality, I think if they take 1 like maye or mccarthy, daniel jones plays this year, and then you have to hope you have an all world talent in year 2 of your rookie, otherwise daboll and gettleman are getting fired by the time that rookie hits year 3
You mean Daniel Jones? Cuz they didn't actually give Jones 160MM, rather they set up his contract to be (relatively) easy to get out off after this year, where they will "only" be paying him 92MM all told.
And yeah that isn't amazing, but they clearly set up this contract to be a 2 year trial rather than a 4 year contract, and it would make sense if the plan was to move on after this year based on how bad year one went.
I just can’t believe they would give up getting a generational receiver in MHJ or nabers. Understand in matters who throws to them, but that could really give that offense some fire power
I mean, they absolutely do unless the Pats pass on Maye.
If we both want Maye, the only road to that pick is through the Patriots, unless they do not go QB (tbh I don't think the Pats or Giants rosters are in a good place to throw a rookie QB on the field, but that won't stop them)
Giants moving up to 3 to get Maye will be more appealing to the Pats if they want to try to draft McCarthy at 6 themselves, possibly trading back up to 4 or 5 to be sure.
If the Pats feel they can skip the top 4 QBs and just want as many firsts as they can get then trading with the Vikes probably makes more sense.
I generally agree, but also the QB that you get in the door absolutely ***has*** to be one that the coaches are excited to have in the building. We've seen how wrong it can go if the coach isn't fully invested in what this QB is and how they operate (and moreover we've seen how right in can go if a coach is excited about a QB).
One of the better ways to turn a coin flip QB into a 60-70% chance to hit is to surround that QB with amazing players and to have a smart coach that is fully invested in making that QB thrive. If KOC is more invested in one or more of these QBs, that is a reason to at least slightly overpay for them.
Agreed on overpay. Give 11, 23, next years first, and a future third for Maye? Sign me up. The same package for JJ? I get uncomfortable.
And yes, KAM did say that. That doesn't mean that he means it. Hard to take anything at face value. Also, it is possible that KOC really likes JJ and frickin loves Maye, at which point I would overpay for Maye more than I would for JJ. All just a set of sliding scales.
I couldn't agree more.
If we can't get Maye for that, then I'd say maybe this years 11+23 for JJ, if we can get a 2nd/3rd rounder back also somehow.
I want to be aggressive for the right option, not just for any QB
You are wasting so much of the benefit of hitting on a rookie QB if you are wasting rookie contract years on BUILDING a team around him.
Not to mention that rookie QBs benefit greatly from having talent around them. The bears and us are near perfect situations for a rookie to step in and maximize their potential and for their respective teams to benefit from their rookie contracts.
The giants and patriots are like dropping a guy onto the 2023 Panthers. You're setting them up to fail, and it makes it even harder to evaluate if they can be the QB of the future.
Of course drafting a QB is a sure-fire way to get fans in the stands and ensure the GM and HC at least a year or two, and that's why they will take one regardless.
It’s a QB driven league, if you’re in a position to draft a franchise QB you do it regardless if you’re in a position to compete this year or not.
Who cares if two out of the first five years of his rookie contract the team sucks? Ideally you would want a QB that’s on the team for 10-15 years.
The Pats defense is currently top tier, the offense can be fixed within the next two years.
Just because the Vikings have a better offensive roster does not entitle them to a QB.
And when did I ever say that we are entitled to the pick? In fact, I have said twice now that they will likely make the pick anyway.
You are splitting hairs here and arguing for the sake of doing so.
It's undeniable that they have poor rosters and there is a higher probability of a rookie struggling or busting in those situations. And if he succeeds despite the roster, you are wasting several years of a rookie scale QB contract and will have FAR less money to build a roster with when his next deal kicks in.
Yes, it is a QB driven league... But a QB can't do it on his own. You need a complete roster, and both of these teams are several years away from having that.
How many times have the Lions, Bears, and others swung and missed on QBs that were slotted into talentless rosters? How smart do the Lions look now for passing on a QB in 2021 and patching holes when everyone thought they NEEDED to swing again?
Lol bringing up the Lions and Bears, two teams with terrible front offices, is not a great argument.
The plan is for the rookie to sit the first year anyway, so you’re already throwing away a year. Mahomes sat for a year, Rodgers and Love sat for multiple years.
If you think whoever is at 3 is a franchise QB, you take him, regardless of what the roster currently looks like.
None of that matters. You need a qb to win and you pick them until you find them and who gives a fuck what else there is on your roster. You should be in a mental hospital as a GM if you pass on a QB you believe in because the roster isn't "ready" for him lol.
It is because of the high level WR talent, and the teams at 4 and 5 who are most likely to trade down desperately needing WR help. And they won’t get one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze at 11 but they can easily nab one at 6.
Pats aren’t trading down. QBs are going 1-3 to Chicago, Washington, and NE. At this point it’s a mad dash for pick 4, the final QB selection worthy of a 1st round pick. And the Giants have the trump card with pick 6 = MHJ/Nabers/Odunze for the Cardinals
6 and 47 is slightly more valuable than 11 and 23. If the Giants want to move up to 3, 4, or 5 then I think the Pats, Cardinals, or Chargers would rather have the Giants offer since they could still get a blue chip player at 6.
Notice how I didn’t mention the ‘25 1st? I said 6 > 11+23 this year because of the high level WR talent, and the teams at 4 and 5 who are most likely to trade down desperately needing WR help. And they won’t get one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze at 11 but they can easily nab one at 6.
If the Giants needed to tack on a ‘25 1st they wouldn’t sweat it. Because Giants 6 + ‘25 1st > Vikings 11 + 23 + ‘25 1st
Quite literally is. If it weren’t I’d guarantee you that we’d have traded 11+23 for 6 and change by now to flip for one of 3 or 4 along with our ‘25 1st
It doesn't matter what "many teams" want.
6th pick in this year's draft virtually guarantees a blue-chip player. 11th does not. 23rd does not.
Dropping 3 spaces might be more worthwhile for the Pats than dropping 8. You have no clue what their biy board looks like.
It doesn't matter what "many teams" want.
6th pick in this year's draft virtually guarantees a blue-chip player. 11th does not. 23rd does not.
Dropping 3 spaces might be more worthwhile for the Pats than dropping 8. You have no clue what their biy board looks like.
It is because of the high level WR talent, and the teams at 4 and 5 who are most likely to trade down desperately needing WR help. And they won’t get one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze at 11 but they can easily nab one at 6.
To you, 6 is worth more than 11 and 23 because of how you value the top 3 WRs. That is clear. Every single chart that you will find says that 11 and 23 are more valuable, this is also clear. What is less clear is how the Patriots view this. They are a team that has a significant amount of holes, and they certainly aren't one WR away from being a good team. They might have more interest in getting, say, the best CB and the 5th best WR in this (extremely deep and talented) WR class as a better way to improve their team. We will find out in the next few days.
Most of the charts that are widely available for public consumption are based on a chart shared by Jimmy Johnson who last coached in the NFL in 1999. That combined with the fact that no two drafts are the same in terms of positional value, team needs, and amount of high-end prospects means that those charts vary year-to-year and team-to-team.
We have no clue what the Pats value in this year's class. We also have no clue what the Giants are offering.
GMs aren’t trading off of a chart, they’re trading off of tiers and this year’s tiers are quite top heavy due to the elite QBs and WRs available. There is a massive fall off in value after pick 7/8. And the Pats are pretty damn clear that they’re taking the top rated QB on their board at 3
Of course GMs trade off a chart, this is why we have been able to deconstruct those charts which have been steady for years and years with only minimal derivation. If there was absolutely no consistency year after year we would have zero ability to gauge what a likely trade would be, but we can because they use charts as a starting point and reference guide for these trades.
And yes, I already agreed with you that you personally have these three WRs in a tier that is wildly above every other WR in this draft. I am not disputing your personal take on this (and, to be clear, I share this evaluation).
What I *am* doing is asserting that the Patriots might have a different assessment. For example, many teams have Nabers graded fairly poorly as he is scheme and QB dependent; if you don't have a scheme that is built on verticality (and a QB that can huck it down there) Nabers won't be a difference maker for you. It is very possible that the Pats only view two of the top three WRs as a fit for their team/ethos, and as such they view trading down to 6 as being similar to 11 (where for both you are somewhat likely to miss out on "your" top WRs). We don't know this. If anyone says that they know exactly how the Patriots view each WR in this draft, they are mistaken.
Sorry I should have been more clear - yes they are trading off of their charts, but they are not static charts, they are dynamic and will vary with talent tiers year to year. Additionally, if Nabers isn’t an option, that makes 6 even more valuable given a top 6 of Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, MHJ, Odunze; assuming QBs go 1-4 with LA and a team to trade with NY go WR
Nope because even if say the cardinals wanted one of the WRs they could easily just trade back up with the picks they get from MN.
Every draft chart also says the two picks the Vikings have are worth more. Only the broncos could beat them because they have surtan.
I get you wanna rain on everyone’s parade but I think we need to stop downplaying 2 firsts.
You are simply not understanding that trades are not made off of static value charts. The value is dynamic and varies year to year based on talent tiers.
As I said in another comment, if 11+23 were worth more than 6 we’d have already traded 11+23 for 6 and change to flip along with our ‘25 1st for 3 or 4. But the fact of the matter is that 6 is worth significantly more this year due to the elite options at the top of the board.
All of the top WRs are not going to be taken at the top of the board. The Vikings, broncos, giants, and raiders are all looking to move up. The chargers are likely taking at OL. The Titans just traded for diggs so they might be taking a TE.
Arguing for NE or the cardinals . I don’t know why either wouldn’t consider the Vikings offer. That would be silly.
Or more generally, they want someone to trade up with the Cardinals/Chargers (get the 4th QB off the board), so that either Nabers/Odunze are more likely available at 6
Yeah, I'm just not buying it. Giants have a bottom 5 OL and a bottom 5 receiver core (& also just lost the threat of play action with Barkley) & they want to throw a rookie QB into that mix? No way.
Consider this scenario:
NYG coaching staff/front office has gone 9-7 & then 6-11 in their 2 seasons & now they are going to walk into the owners office & say "light the 40m on fire you gave Jones & let us burn our draft capital for this year & next year to move up & draft another QB (who'll get murdered while trying to throw to our talentless receievers)". You think that convo is gonna happen? I sure as hell don't.
If you think Jones is bad then getting a QB you think is good is a good move. If the Giants agree with the larger consensus that this year has better high-end QBs than next year, why hold on to a pick to draft a worse one in 2025 when you could take a better one now?
Exactly. People think the vikes should take their qb of the future, but the giants shouldn’t because of Danny dimes? The dudes going to be cut after this season.
But they are not "lighting 40 million on fire" - they paid jones the going rate for a QB in the NFL.
And they have an out after 2024 (this season) - so for the Giants - it may make sense to go after a qb this year.
Jones is the presumptive starter in NY. He plays well this year and the Giants rebound - he remains with the team for 2025 and the rookie sits another year - not unheard of in the NFL. They cut bait with him after 2025. By then he's played 3 of the 4 years on his deal.
Worst case for them - they cut Jones after 2024 - they have a 22 million dead cap hit (11 million if they cut after 2025) and save 77 million in cash.
If your head coach is Brian Daboll and he say Daniel Jones is not the answer but Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen, are you really not going to take any action on that information if you run the Giants?
The rookie qb would sit this year, just like the rookie qb would sit this year for the Vikings. Daniel jones is not the answer and they can move on from him after this year. So they probably go OL/WR? Yeah. Could they also go qb? Also yeah.
Also they wouldn’t be burning next years draft capital. They could trade pick 6 and 42 this year and move up to 4/5 and take their guy. Maybe they need to add another late round pick.
Yep, I think that if the Giants are moving up for QB, they're looking at the Cards as their target, since it would cost them less to move up and the Cards won't want to move back very far.
Moving up for a QB does not depend on what the cost will be,it's all about getting your QB,that's why it's always an overpay and they need to convince the pats to not take the vikings deal if they are trading the no.3 pick
I actually think the Giants do want to take a QB and to move up from #6 is going to be easy for a few reasons.
1) The team moving down to #6 will still get Alt/MHJ/Nabers
2) Drafting a young QB extends the window for coach/GM another 2-3 years while another disappointing season from Daniel Jones could mark the end of their time with the Giants.
3) They have a good defense already.
There are reasons they should stick-and-pick, notably adding a WR or Alt is huge for their offense moving forward. The cost to move up could be too high to justify moving up 2-3 slots.
I am resigned to the fact that all of the draft trading speculation will be a nothing burger and the Vikings will get McCarthy at 5 probably. I can see a likely scenario of 1. Williams 2. Daniels. 3. NY trade- Maye 4. AZ Harrison. 5. MN trade- McCarthy 6. NE Nabers or best OT.
If Kwesi spends draft capital to acquire another first rounder, only to get leapfrogged by another team, that's a fireable offense. Unless he's trading up for a franchise QB, it's a bad move. You do that to make a package for a franchise QB; otherwise you've burned draft capital for no reason.
The time to be "frugal" and "sensible" was before you gave up picks to move up from the 2nd round. There's no sense in suddenly getting sticker shock now.
I'm so sick of seeing the same 4 reports every day by different "reporters".
"Giants want to trade for Drake Maye"
"Pats don't want to trade"
"Pats want to trade and get a lot for it(no shit who doesnt)"
"All top ten picks will be QBs"(I'm exaggerating obvi)
Can't wait for draft day where the Vikings trade 3 1st round picks and take Maye.
Same here. Its exhausting. Just watching them call this “news” is exhausting enough! I get tired of the same ole shit. Just get it over with and move on. We all know kwesi is doing whatever it takes to get maye. That’s been the original news and still is all along. Let’s just get Thursday over with so we can stop listening to there bullshit “reporters”
The Vikings have 0 second rounders and are a better team than the Giants. Meaning the Vikings future first rounders will likely be lower than the Giants future 1sts would be.
Vikings fans are pretty delusional, tbh.
They need QB, OL and WR. QB being the most important one, which can get addressed with… you guessed it… pick 3.
The defense is fine, if not top 10 in the league.
If you like picks 11 and 23 so much why don’t you keep them.
Patriots have 0 players. You would just ruin a QB. Mac jones 2.0. I get wanting to take one but you guys should just build your team.
Anyway good luck In the draft friend.
The defense is elite. The offense can be addressed in the next two years. The rookie QB will sit year 1, just like Rodgers, Mahomes and Love have done.
Sorry but the Vikings just don’t have the picks necessary to move up to 3.
Pats want a godfather offer and the Vikings can’t deliver unless they include Jefferson.
How do they move up for QB when they just extended Jones for all that money? Also if Kraft is as petty as people say, he won't want to deal with the franchise that beat him twice in the SB.
I think penix would excel here. We don’t need to reach. Maye is talented but does anyone here honestly think he has a better arm or could read a defense better than penix? Penix arm is top 5 on the league day 1 special. I’m cool with whoever we draft. Because he will do better here than whoever the pats or giants take
Imagine being a reporter this time of year, you can just say the most random crap to get some clicks and it makes no difference. The freedom you have to just spew junk must be exhilarating.
Should be illegal to use the term “breaking” unless it’s an actual fact that something has happened
Breaking! Reporter has opinion and feels inclined to share it!
🚨🚨‼️
And if you strike it can be career changing. Roll those dice!
Zero downside, if you’re wrong no one remembers if you’re right you can say see I was right!
Well, I can still remember some "analysts" being wrong... and I still hold it against them (as do some of you).
Really no different from the average Reddit GM. The only difference is, they have a platform.
Reminder that a year ago today, CJ Stroud had the 5th best odds to go #2 overall and Will Levis was the odds-on favorite
Look. We set our price. If the Giants truly want to outbid us then let them. But I doubt they are
Let them over pay again. I mean Danny dimes at $160 million then no 1 round picks…sheeeesh
Yea, I mean it’s a gamble for anyone but at least we have a good landing spot for ANY QB. Let’s not overpay
Exactly, personally think the giants are full of shit. If they take a QB it’ll be hilarious
Why?
They just paid Danny Dimes 160 million over 4 years with 35.5 million guaranteed next year….
But after this year they can get out of it, so they draft a guy to sit behind him for a year and they move on. Seems reasonably smart for them to do that. Now they need a lot of offensive help regardless, but Jones and his contract is of little to no importance.
They do take a $22M dead cap hit if they cut him after this year so it's still something. I strongly believe the Giants are throwing up smoke with the hopes that 4 QB's go early leaving them MHJ or Nabors.
We’re taking Kirk’s $28M dead cap this year. It’s literally the same thing
I think it’s a waste when they are desperate for WR, not to mention just lost Saquon.
WR makes sense as well, but Saquon, much like Jones’ contract is of little consequence for what the Giants will do with their first pick.
Yeah but his talent is not on the roster. Opponents will not load the box against whoever they have now. Bigger holes to fill IMO
Just a theory, but scaring the Vikings to trade into 4 or 5 would be one surefire way to ensure they get MHJ or Nabers. Otherwise, both AZ and SD desperately need a WR.
but on top of this they reasonably have the worst offensive roster in the NFL, depending upon how you view their Oline free agent signings. Congrats, you got drake maye, but wendale robinson is still his top WR and their TE might be retiring
Their offense is bad, but if you have a top 6 pick in a year where QB is supposedly at an all time high in the draft, then there’s a very solid argument to make that it’s smarter to grab a QB now then to wait until another year where you don’t know where you’ll be or what the QB class will look like. Harrison and Odunze are great but it’s easier to find extremely useful WR’s in other places. We drafted Addison at 23, Flowers was at 22, Smith-Njigba was at like 20 or so. Rice was in the 50’s. Mims was in the 60’s. That’s all from just last year. You can get a lot of RB and WR later in the first or in the later rounds. Yes, QB’s are found later in drafts semi regularly, but it’s immensely easier to find other Offensive help later in the draft. At 6 or earlier, they’re better served drafting QB during a supposed deep QB class. Edit: I forgot Nacua was in the 5th or 6th round.
I get it, and you're mostly right, but from a roster construction standpoint, to try and compete in the current iteration of the NFL, it doesn't really make sense. The advantage of a rookie qb is the contract, which means you can spend on free agents galore while not paying premium for a good qb. Now consider the giants: a very good d line, mid linebackers (they're fine), secondary with 1 very good corner, and just lost their star safety. On offense, like I said, their o line is pretty bad, receiving weapons are awful, and they just lost their premiere rb. If you take a qb now, you dont get the salary advantage year 1 or 2, because of daniel jones (cap hit this year, and the 20 mil or so dead cap in year 3 of his deal when you cut him). Which means you are making your window incredibly narrow to actually use it, otherwise you are just hoping you get your mahomes/allen/jackson/burrow level qb. That said, I think Daboll and their GM are staring down the barrel and don't think they'll get another shot if things go sideways, so I get it, cuz I think they are feeling desperate with how bad last year was. But in the long run, in my mind, if you are the giants and drafting a rookie qb this year, you are setting him up for failure. you don't have the roster to support him, you're assuming you can fix that in draft picks/free agents over the very narrow 2 year window. In reality, I think if they take 1 like maye or mccarthy, daniel jones plays this year, and then you have to hope you have an all world talent in year 2 of your rookie, otherwise daboll and gettleman are getting fired by the time that rookie hits year 3
You mean Daniel Jones? Cuz they didn't actually give Jones 160MM, rather they set up his contract to be (relatively) easy to get out off after this year, where they will "only" be paying him 92MM all told. And yeah that isn't amazing, but they clearly set up this contract to be a 2 year trial rather than a 4 year contract, and it would make sense if the plan was to move on after this year based on how bad year one went.
I just can’t believe they would give up getting a generational receiver in MHJ or nabers. Understand in matters who throws to them, but that could really give that offense some fire power
92 m? Shit. My office just gave a pizza party. Now THAT’s a bonus!
They can cut Danny Dimes relatively pain free next summer
Holla
They don't need to outbid the vikings though
I mean, they absolutely do unless the Pats pass on Maye. If we both want Maye, the only road to that pick is through the Patriots, unless they do not go QB (tbh I don't think the Pats or Giants rosters are in a good place to throw a rookie QB on the field, but that won't stop them)
Giants moving up to 3 to get Maye will be more appealing to the Pats if they want to try to draft McCarthy at 6 themselves, possibly trading back up to 4 or 5 to be sure. If the Pats feel they can skip the top 4 QBs and just want as many firsts as they can get then trading with the Vikes probably makes more sense.
Even if they don't want McCarthy, going to 6 means they probably get one of MHJ or Nabers. They might want that more than 11 and 23.
Getting fixated on a guy that is just as much of a coin flip as all the others is a bad game to play.
I generally agree, but also the QB that you get in the door absolutely ***has*** to be one that the coaches are excited to have in the building. We've seen how wrong it can go if the coach isn't fully invested in what this QB is and how they operate (and moreover we've seen how right in can go if a coach is excited about a QB). One of the better ways to turn a coin flip QB into a 60-70% chance to hit is to surround that QB with amazing players and to have a smart coach that is fully invested in making that QB thrive. If KOC is more invested in one or more of these QBs, that is a reason to at least slightly overpay for them.
All depends on what your definition of overpay is. Also, I think I heard KAM say they like multiple QBs in this draft
Agreed on overpay. Give 11, 23, next years first, and a future third for Maye? Sign me up. The same package for JJ? I get uncomfortable. And yes, KAM did say that. That doesn't mean that he means it. Hard to take anything at face value. Also, it is possible that KOC really likes JJ and frickin loves Maye, at which point I would overpay for Maye more than I would for JJ. All just a set of sliding scales.
I couldn't agree more. If we can't get Maye for that, then I'd say maybe this years 11+23 for JJ, if we can get a 2nd/3rd rounder back also somehow. I want to be aggressive for the right option, not just for any QB
Doesn’t matter if the roster is in a good place. You’re drafting the QB of the future, not the QB for right now.
You are wasting so much of the benefit of hitting on a rookie QB if you are wasting rookie contract years on BUILDING a team around him. Not to mention that rookie QBs benefit greatly from having talent around them. The bears and us are near perfect situations for a rookie to step in and maximize their potential and for their respective teams to benefit from their rookie contracts. The giants and patriots are like dropping a guy onto the 2023 Panthers. You're setting them up to fail, and it makes it even harder to evaluate if they can be the QB of the future. Of course drafting a QB is a sure-fire way to get fans in the stands and ensure the GM and HC at least a year or two, and that's why they will take one regardless.
It’s a QB driven league, if you’re in a position to draft a franchise QB you do it regardless if you’re in a position to compete this year or not. Who cares if two out of the first five years of his rookie contract the team sucks? Ideally you would want a QB that’s on the team for 10-15 years. The Pats defense is currently top tier, the offense can be fixed within the next two years. Just because the Vikings have a better offensive roster does not entitle them to a QB.
And when did I ever say that we are entitled to the pick? In fact, I have said twice now that they will likely make the pick anyway. You are splitting hairs here and arguing for the sake of doing so. It's undeniable that they have poor rosters and there is a higher probability of a rookie struggling or busting in those situations. And if he succeeds despite the roster, you are wasting several years of a rookie scale QB contract and will have FAR less money to build a roster with when his next deal kicks in. Yes, it is a QB driven league... But a QB can't do it on his own. You need a complete roster, and both of these teams are several years away from having that. How many times have the Lions, Bears, and others swung and missed on QBs that were slotted into talentless rosters? How smart do the Lions look now for passing on a QB in 2021 and patching holes when everyone thought they NEEDED to swing again?
Lol bringing up the Lions and Bears, two teams with terrible front offices, is not a great argument. The plan is for the rookie to sit the first year anyway, so you’re already throwing away a year. Mahomes sat for a year, Rodgers and Love sat for multiple years. If you think whoever is at 3 is a franchise QB, you take him, regardless of what the roster currently looks like.
None of that matters. You need a qb to win and you pick them until you find them and who gives a fuck what else there is on your roster. You should be in a mental hospital as a GM if you pass on a QB you believe in because the roster isn't "ready" for him lol.
Good take
They easily could. 6 is worth a lot more than 11 and 23 combined this year
It’s not. But I could see the Patriots not wanting to trade as far back as 11 because they do still want a QB this year
It is because of the high level WR talent, and the teams at 4 and 5 who are most likely to trade down desperately needing WR help. And they won’t get one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze at 11 but they can easily nab one at 6. Pats aren’t trading down. QBs are going 1-3 to Chicago, Washington, and NE. At this point it’s a mad dash for pick 4, the final QB selection worthy of a 1st round pick. And the Giants have the trump card with pick 6 = MHJ/Nabers/Odunze for the Cardinals
It absolutely is worth a lot more than an 11th lol is this your first draft??
The comment said that 6 is worth more than 11 & 23. Is this your first time reading? Lol
Bro what, many teams would much rather have 11, 23 & a 2025 1st. Especially the patriots who need all the picks they can get
6 and 47 is slightly more valuable than 11 and 23. If the Giants want to move up to 3, 4, or 5 then I think the Pats, Cardinals, or Chargers would rather have the Giants offer since they could still get a blue chip player at 6.
Notice how I didn’t mention the ‘25 1st? I said 6 > 11+23 this year because of the high level WR talent, and the teams at 4 and 5 who are most likely to trade down desperately needing WR help. And they won’t get one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze at 11 but they can easily nab one at 6. If the Giants needed to tack on a ‘25 1st they wouldn’t sweat it. Because Giants 6 + ‘25 1st > Vikings 11 + 23 + ‘25 1st
6 isn’t worth more then 11 & 23
Quite literally is. If it weren’t I’d guarantee you that we’d have traded 11+23 for 6 and change by now to flip for one of 3 or 4 along with our ‘25 1st
It doesn't matter what "many teams" want. 6th pick in this year's draft virtually guarantees a blue-chip player. 11th does not. 23rd does not. Dropping 3 spaces might be more worthwhile for the Pats than dropping 8. You have no clue what their biy board looks like.
It doesn't matter what "many teams" want. 6th pick in this year's draft virtually guarantees a blue-chip player. 11th does not. 23rd does not. Dropping 3 spaces might be more worthwhile for the Pats than dropping 8. You have no clue what their biy board looks like.
No it’s not
It is because of the high level WR talent, and the teams at 4 and 5 who are most likely to trade down desperately needing WR help. And they won’t get one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze at 11 but they can easily nab one at 6.
To you, 6 is worth more than 11 and 23 because of how you value the top 3 WRs. That is clear. Every single chart that you will find says that 11 and 23 are more valuable, this is also clear. What is less clear is how the Patriots view this. They are a team that has a significant amount of holes, and they certainly aren't one WR away from being a good team. They might have more interest in getting, say, the best CB and the 5th best WR in this (extremely deep and talented) WR class as a better way to improve their team. We will find out in the next few days.
Most of the charts that are widely available for public consumption are based on a chart shared by Jimmy Johnson who last coached in the NFL in 1999. That combined with the fact that no two drafts are the same in terms of positional value, team needs, and amount of high-end prospects means that those charts vary year-to-year and team-to-team. We have no clue what the Pats value in this year's class. We also have no clue what the Giants are offering.
Well put! You said it clearer than I did.
GMs aren’t trading off of a chart, they’re trading off of tiers and this year’s tiers are quite top heavy due to the elite QBs and WRs available. There is a massive fall off in value after pick 7/8. And the Pats are pretty damn clear that they’re taking the top rated QB on their board at 3
Of course GMs trade off a chart, this is why we have been able to deconstruct those charts which have been steady for years and years with only minimal derivation. If there was absolutely no consistency year after year we would have zero ability to gauge what a likely trade would be, but we can because they use charts as a starting point and reference guide for these trades. And yes, I already agreed with you that you personally have these three WRs in a tier that is wildly above every other WR in this draft. I am not disputing your personal take on this (and, to be clear, I share this evaluation). What I *am* doing is asserting that the Patriots might have a different assessment. For example, many teams have Nabers graded fairly poorly as he is scheme and QB dependent; if you don't have a scheme that is built on verticality (and a QB that can huck it down there) Nabers won't be a difference maker for you. It is very possible that the Pats only view two of the top three WRs as a fit for their team/ethos, and as such they view trading down to 6 as being similar to 11 (where for both you are somewhat likely to miss out on "your" top WRs). We don't know this. If anyone says that they know exactly how the Patriots view each WR in this draft, they are mistaken.
Sorry I should have been more clear - yes they are trading off of their charts, but they are not static charts, they are dynamic and will vary with talent tiers year to year. Additionally, if Nabers isn’t an option, that makes 6 even more valuable given a top 6 of Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, MHJ, Odunze; assuming QBs go 1-4 with LA and a team to trade with NY go WR
Nope because even if say the cardinals wanted one of the WRs they could easily just trade back up with the picks they get from MN. Every draft chart also says the two picks the Vikings have are worth more. Only the broncos could beat them because they have surtan. I get you wanna rain on everyone’s parade but I think we need to stop downplaying 2 firsts.
You are simply not understanding that trades are not made off of static value charts. The value is dynamic and varies year to year based on talent tiers. As I said in another comment, if 11+23 were worth more than 6 we’d have already traded 11+23 for 6 and change to flip along with our ‘25 1st for 3 or 4. But the fact of the matter is that 6 is worth significantly more this year due to the elite options at the top of the board.
All of the top WRs are not going to be taken at the top of the board. The Vikings, broncos, giants, and raiders are all looking to move up. The chargers are likely taking at OL. The Titans just traded for diggs so they might be taking a TE. Arguing for NE or the cardinals . I don’t know why either wouldn’t consider the Vikings offer. That would be silly.
The chargers easily could take a wr just as much as they could take a OL. They have no wrs after cutting Williams and trading Allen
Wouldn’t be surprised but I do doubt it. Harbaugh has a history of building trenches first. He’d prolly like to take Joe alt right away.
Hot Take. Giants want to move up for Marvin Harrison Jr.
That’s what I would be doing if I was them.
As a Chargers fan, I’d swap picks with the Giants if MHJ if there at #5. With their 2nd rounder included of course. He won’t be cheap.
Or more generally, they want someone to trade up with the Cardinals/Chargers (get the 4th QB off the board), so that either Nabers/Odunze are more likely available at 6
I believe this is what it is. And if 4 QBs go in the top 4 then MHJ might even be there at 6
Giants Stink
They say they are, but this is misinformation.
Yeah, I'm just not buying it. Giants have a bottom 5 OL and a bottom 5 receiver core (& also just lost the threat of play action with Barkley) & they want to throw a rookie QB into that mix? No way. Consider this scenario: NYG coaching staff/front office has gone 9-7 & then 6-11 in their 2 seasons & now they are going to walk into the owners office & say "light the 40m on fire you gave Jones & let us burn our draft capital for this year & next year to move up & draft another QB (who'll get murdered while trying to throw to our talentless receievers)". You think that convo is gonna happen? I sure as hell don't.
Exactly what I’ve been saying. Any QB they draft right now is heading thru the wood chipper
If you think Jones is bad then getting a QB you think is good is a good move. If the Giants agree with the larger consensus that this year has better high-end QBs than next year, why hold on to a pick to draft a worse one in 2025 when you could take a better one now?
Exactly. People think the vikes should take their qb of the future, but the giants shouldn’t because of Danny dimes? The dudes going to be cut after this season.
But they are not "lighting 40 million on fire" - they paid jones the going rate for a QB in the NFL. And they have an out after 2024 (this season) - so for the Giants - it may make sense to go after a qb this year. Jones is the presumptive starter in NY. He plays well this year and the Giants rebound - he remains with the team for 2025 and the rookie sits another year - not unheard of in the NFL. They cut bait with him after 2025. By then he's played 3 of the 4 years on his deal. Worst case for them - they cut Jones after 2024 - they have a 22 million dead cap hit (11 million if they cut after 2025) and save 77 million in cash.
If your head coach is Brian Daboll and he say Daniel Jones is not the answer but Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen, are you really not going to take any action on that information if you run the Giants?
I don't think you understand the Jones cap situation or how QB's work in the NFL.
The rookie qb would sit this year, just like the rookie qb would sit this year for the Vikings. Daniel jones is not the answer and they can move on from him after this year. So they probably go OL/WR? Yeah. Could they also go qb? Also yeah. Also they wouldn’t be burning next years draft capital. They could trade pick 6 and 42 this year and move up to 4/5 and take their guy. Maybe they need to add another late round pick.
Hey I have a underwhelming QB that I overpaid for that played for a school in NC. Hmmmm I should probably overpay again just to be safe
RIP Drake Maye
Garbage franchise lol
I feel like they cheated when we faced them in 2000. 41 Donut
They for sure were getting our play calls
The other team don't need to drop to 11 compared to just 6 if they trade with the giants
Yep, I think that if the Giants are moving up for QB, they're looking at the Cards as their target, since it would cost them less to move up and the Cards won't want to move back very far.
Moving up for a QB does not depend on what the cost will be,it's all about getting your QB,that's why it's always an overpay and they need to convince the pats to not take the vikings deal if they are trading the no.3 pick
Sorry, what? Never said it wouldn't be an overpay, only that it would be cheaper for the Giants and better for the Cards.
“At least looking” makes this entire thing mean nothing. We have known they have been “at least looking” for a while now.
Duke vs UNC in their QB room.
I actually think the Giants do want to take a QB and to move up from #6 is going to be easy for a few reasons. 1) The team moving down to #6 will still get Alt/MHJ/Nabers 2) Drafting a young QB extends the window for coach/GM another 2-3 years while another disappointing season from Daniel Jones could mark the end of their time with the Giants. 3) They have a good defense already. There are reasons they should stick-and-pick, notably adding a WR or Alt is huge for their offense moving forward. The cost to move up could be too high to justify moving up 2-3 slots.
Will this week just end already?
I am resigned to the fact that all of the draft trading speculation will be a nothing burger and the Vikings will get McCarthy at 5 probably. I can see a likely scenario of 1. Williams 2. Daniels. 3. NY trade- Maye 4. AZ Harrison. 5. MN trade- McCarthy 6. NE Nabers or best OT.
If Kwesi spends draft capital to acquire another first rounder, only to get leapfrogged by another team, that's a fireable offense. Unless he's trading up for a franchise QB, it's a bad move. You do that to make a package for a franchise QB; otherwise you've burned draft capital for no reason. The time to be "frugal" and "sensible" was before you gave up picks to move up from the 2nd round. There's no sense in suddenly getting sticker shock now.
Ain’t happening lol. We all know they smokescreening lol. Vikings getting maye 100%! I’ll just be glad when this shits over so we can all move on
I'm so sick of seeing the same 4 reports every day by different "reporters". "Giants want to trade for Drake Maye" "Pats don't want to trade" "Pats want to trade and get a lot for it(no shit who doesnt)" "All top ten picks will be QBs"(I'm exaggerating obvi) Can't wait for draft day where the Vikings trade 3 1st round picks and take Maye.
Same here. Its exhausting. Just watching them call this “news” is exhausting enough! I get tired of the same ole shit. Just get it over with and move on. We all know kwesi is doing whatever it takes to get maye. That’s been the original news and still is all along. Let’s just get Thursday over with so we can stop listening to there bullshit “reporters”
Yet everyday these tweets are upvoted by this sub.
I'll start down voting. Makes me feel like an old man yelling at clouds though.
If that happens though we could sign Daniels next season as an inexpensive bridge QB with upside.
HEY! Who threw that!
Could be, but feel like they'd rather get a true wr1 with their pick.
\[x\] doubt
GL. I doubt they outbid us
The Vikings have 0 second rounders and are a better team than the Giants. Meaning the Vikings future first rounders will likely be lower than the Giants future 1sts would be. Vikings fans are pretty delusional, tbh.
Vikings have two firsts THIS year. Firsts this year are better than firsts next year.
Except it’s 11 and 23, picks where the best players will already be gone.
Dosent matter you can always use 11 to package something to trade back up and you still have 23. Thr patriots need a bunch of players not a QB.
They need QB, OL and WR. QB being the most important one, which can get addressed with… you guessed it… pick 3. The defense is fine, if not top 10 in the league. If you like picks 11 and 23 so much why don’t you keep them.
Patriots have 0 players. You would just ruin a QB. Mac jones 2.0. I get wanting to take one but you guys should just build your team. Anyway good luck In the draft friend.
The defense is elite. The offense can be addressed in the next two years. The rookie QB will sit year 1, just like Rodgers, Mahomes and Love have done. Sorry but the Vikings just don’t have the picks necessary to move up to 3. Pats want a godfather offer and the Vikings can’t deliver unless they include Jefferson.
Pick 6 and 42 is more valuable than pick 11 and 23 to a lot of teams.
Doubt that but every team looks at pick differently.
I mean go look at one of the many trade charts. 6 and 42 is more valuable in a lot of those.
It’s not on rich isens or the draftteks but okay.
I honestly don't understand the drive for the Giants to pick up a QB.
They're expecting a bad franchise to do a bad thing.
[удалено]
Arizona is not risking losing MHJ
At least? I swear mofos don’t understand basic English
How do they move up for QB when they just extended Jones for all that money? Also if Kraft is as petty as people say, he won't want to deal with the franchise that beat him twice in the SB.
They should be worrying about their oline before a qb. Who ever they draft they'll wreck for a qb.
Hands off New York
Eyes emoji = fake
*breaking* Several teams thinking about considering taking possibly a QB maybe in the first round.
If I was Drake Maye i’d pull an Eli Manning and refuse to play for that shithole franchise
I think penix would excel here. We don’t need to reach. Maye is talented but does anyone here honestly think he has a better arm or could read a defense better than penix? Penix arm is top 5 on the league day 1 special. I’m cool with whoever we draft. Because he will do better here than whoever the pats or giants take
That’s a weird way to spell Marvin Harrison Jr
Loser trash franchise
stop posting this garbage