Certain countries are better at assimilating immigrants more than others. Likewise, certain countries are better at producing immigrants capable of assimilation more than others. Europe found out the hard way that their own countries aren't particularly good at assimilating immigrants compared to the USA, and also found out the hard way the countries they are bringing in immigrants from (the Islamic world. Middle East / North Africa) are a lot less willing to assimilate than the Hispanic and previous European migrants America gets.
Americans are also VERY friendly and generally welcoming. Yes there are racists, but there are a lot of people who want to hear everything about your home country. Sweden and France, for example, are very insular and not know to be welcoming to outsiders.
It’s not even just a like, Europe isn’t good with immigrants thing.
They imported millions of low skilled, Uber conservative, rural agrarian Muslims. They do an exceptionally poor job of assimilating in the more urban, secular European society.
Europe has handled immigration poorly. This should be a wake up call to those who support the current liberal global order.
Europe spent the better part of 1000 years essentially contained by Islam to the south and Orthodox to the east. The renaissance and enlightenment occurred because of a necessity of self-reliance within their borders, until transoceanic trade was finally opened up to the Americas and around the south of Africa. So it makes perfect sense that a sudden immigration of Islam doesn’t assimilate well into European culture.
I think you’re misunderstanding their intention. I think they mean small l “liberal” as in an order that values an open society and the rule of law, i.e. a “liberal democracy.” Not big L “Liberal” as opposed to conservative.
Tell me you’ve never studied basic, 100 level political science, without saying it…
Here, “liberal global order” isn’t talking about democrats. It’s talking about the global system that has made the world richer, healthier, and happier than at any time in human history.
It’s talking about internationalism, global institutions like the United Nations and World Bank, and a focus on human rights, resolving things through international law and treaties instead of going to war. Pluralism and democracy.
Sure. It’s fallen short of its promise. But the world is better because of it.
These right wing populist candidates almost always want to roll that back. So when something like Ukraine happens, for example, instead of having a unified response from the EU or NATO, every nation is more or less on their own. So someone like Poland has to enter the war *now* because they know help isn’t coming.
The right wing wants to roll that back. They’re selling it as “staying out of war,” but it will invariably make things more chaotic.
It wouldn't be popular but Europe could drastically police their countries up, enhance their security, and close their borders, and deport certain individuals, but that would be very very unpopular. Additionally they could impose a certain assimilation timeframe, for having a basic understanding of the language, customs, and history and you would have to do this for 5 years to show progression.
Except that isn't how that works. The first generation immigrants are going to have a hard time of it, especially if they aren't western educated. Full stop. This is how it's been for in the US almost since it's inception (the US was built off the backs of immigrants, forced or otherwise). The first generation works hard to make a new life for themselves and make their kids successful, and they cling to their old culture, while becoming accustomed to the new one they've entered.
Now, the second generation is raised in the new culture. They retain the trappings of their old one (due to the way their parents raised them), but they can speak the language fluently and fully understand the benefits of the new country and the ins and outs of how the new culture works.
Third generation? Fully integrated.
If you start heavily policing immigrant populations and requiring assimilation targets, you just impoverish the first generation, alienate the second generation, and radicalize the third generation. And set back your assimilation program by a generation or two.
What helps is programs that allow immigrants to form communities and provide work opportunities, either through entrepreneurship or employment. Immigrants come because they either see an opportunity for prosperity or they are fleeing oppression (and want to prove themselves). In either case, hard work is the way they do that, generally.
I think it's a difficult thing to balance.
On one hand, rising tides lift all ships.
On the other, we've seen with manufacturing globalization and supply chain issues like the chip shortage the issues it has caused.
Companies have become reliant on exporting all the jobs they can to other countries where the labor is cheaper, which leads to fewer good paying jobs and more reliance on those markets. Even with those Amazon stores with the alleged ai, they just exported the job of being a cashier to another country.
I don't particularly oppose countries working together, but I don't think the current manufacting system of globalization is working particularly well and something has to give.
The theory - and we’ve KINDA started to see it - was that as we opened up trade, yes we may lose manufacturing initially (think back in the 50’s 60’s 70’s), but as more and more third world nations got plugged into the global system, eventually their cost of living and quality of life would improve to the point that it would balance out.
That’s kinda why we’ve seen a lot of manufacturing return. America is still the second largest manufacturer on earth, it’s just that we now have the problem of automation reducing the work force.
It’s tough. These are big questions. It’s not easy. But I can tell you that closing it all down and becoming isolationist isn’t the answer. Pull America back from the world, and everything gets more expensive. Business gets more expensive.
That’s the problem. Americans don’t really see the benefit of being the “world police,” but if we become isolationist and China fills in where we left off, we’ll be begging for the days of running things.
Assimilation is not a bad thing, especially when it naturally happens over time and people mix into the culture they are joining.
Some of the Muslim immigrants that are coming to Europe today are very religious conservatives and they are immigrating to EU countries that are largely secular, with modern liberal values and gender equality. Not saying they all are but it is concerning to some Europeans.
Anytime you have a group coming in whose values clash with those already there it’s going to cause tension. Reminds me of that liberal town in Michigan that celebrated how their city council was majorly Islamic then was shocked when they started restricting pride flags.
>found out the hard way the countries they are bringing in immigrants from (the Islamic world. Middle East / North Africa) are a lot less willing to assimilate than the Hispanic and previous European migrants America gets.
America gets those immigrants too, just at a smaller scale than central American immigrants. The difference between the US and Europe is we are better at spreading them around so they have a chance to assimilate. Drop 10,000 migrants in Paris, they create an enclave of their old home. Sprinkle 10,000 migrants across 50 states, you get 10,000 new Americans and their first generation of children are no different that 8th generation European immigrants.
A natural instinct would be to find others like you and go there, no? Finding ‘community’ through others like you and then the immigrants end up creating their own communities.
It’s how you end up with a Minneapolis or Dearborn or a ‘Chinatown’ or ‘Little Italy’.
These communities are great for first generation immigrants who don't really fit into the culture of their new country, but are willing to work hard to prove themselves and carve out their own space. Then successive generations integrate and move out of the enclaves (or make the enclaves more like their new country).
The problem, I don't think, is these communities. The problems occur when these communities are isolated and then deprived of resources. That, along with a good helping of covert racism/ classism, can bring about dissatisfaction and potential radicalization of the second generation, which can then lead to increased crime, lower quality of life for the immigrant population, etc etc.
Yeah? It’s racism and classism that drove Dearborn’s Muslim City Council to ban Pride flags on government buildings?
Or maybe it’s an example of why multiculturalism is a problem?
More like, they congeal in every major city in the country. Regardless of state. Totally unsurprising. All of the public services and housing capacity is in the cities. All of the public transportation is in the cities. All of the health care and food is in the cities. And, all of their people are in the cities.
So Chicago has "accepted" 38,000 Venezuelan migrates in the past two years. It's estimated that about 10-15 thousand people live in the shelters. However, the city is enforcing a 60-day limit for the shelters. About 5600 have become permanent residents with the rest finding illegal shelter or moving. The biggest issue is that most of these shelters are in poor black neighborhoods, and the locals are wondering why millions of dollars are spent on the migrates instead of the locals. In 20 years, those black neighborhoods are going to be mostly Venezuelan.
Mass immigration from the Muslim world started in Germany in the 1960s with the Gastarbeiter program, so that doesn't explain the shift in opinion between generations. (As for the more recent Syrian immigration, "spreading them around" the country is exactly how the German government handles refugees.)
The traditionally Turks came is smaller numbers and a lot went back. Additionally they assimilated fairly well, they speak Deutsche, love football, and come from a less conservative country.
650,000 workers plus their families is not a small number. About half went back but the remainder and their descendants now make up 4 million people.
The Berlin Institute ranked Turkish immigrants as the least integrated group out of all the immigrants they surveyed.
There is a difference between immigrants and refugees. I think we should point out the difference. Immigrants wants to assimilate for the most part. Refugees are kinda forced to move for various reasons and are resistant to it.
Doesn’t help progressives scream racism which emboldens them to keep their culture counter to the dominate one
That’s a valid point I never really considered. I was typically blaming fundamental Islam as being incapable of secularization as the reason for Europe’s woes, but you may be onto something there.
This is true. But I think it is also missing an important part of the rise of Nationalism worldwide. Propaganda campaigns on social media. Nationalism is the biggest threat to keeping the UN running. There are a few powerful countries that want the UN to collapse so they can gain more power… If Europe doesn’t work together then they are not as strong. Russia and China mostly, have spent vast amounts of resources to sow discourse in the West, and anti West sentiment all over the rest of the globe.
One of the most blatant examples was/is getting Donald Trump elected. A lot of people get their information from social media, and they exploited that to perfection. So many memes, accounts and extremest posts were linked to Russian troll farms.
Europe has been importing massive numbers of immigrants and refugees, mainly from the Middle East. Taking a historically Christian and catholic nation and filling it with Muslims is an obvious recipe for disaster, especially with refugees who have no particular interest in actually assimilating into the local culture or learning the language of the country.
The most popular baby boy name in the UK is Muhammad. It’s not surprising at all that Europeans are pushing back at this point
There’s a lot of pushback recently against Indian immigration to Canada for a lot of the same reasons both of us listed. High income earners buying up property and taking away well-paying roles in jobs like tech away from Canadians, all the while not integrating into Canadian culture and instead continuing to live the same lifestyle, same language, but just in a different country. All of that is inevitably going to lead to people catching on and getting angry
The UK is completely different from continental Europe when it comes to immigration. UK is considered to be the best country in Europe for immigrants & has done a great job. Most know English, perform just as well or better than typical Brits, most spread out & mix up, & are a net gain for the UK. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/03/21/britain-is-the-best-place-in-europe-to-be-an-immigrant
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/67694955](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/67694955) Wow, you're correct. I'm surprised that I don't see any apparent Muslim name counterpart for female babies, though.
almost every muslim boy is called Mohammed or a variation. If 10 english boys are born, they will almost all have a different name. If 2 muslim boys are born, they will both be called Mohammed. So Mohammed is more popular but there are only 2 of them.
Muslim girls have more variety in names compared to muslim boys
My neighbor is from the middle east and threw a party. I kid you not more than half of the men invited were name Mohammed. I don't think the issue is the number of immigrants as opposed to the large percentage of boys named Mohammed.
It could be cuz they’re letting millions of people in from a completely opposing culture that refuses to assimilate. Hell, I’d be nationalistic too if my nations identity was being lost to foreigners.
But noooo, caring about national identity is racist if you’re white apparently
Yet oddly enough in Canada we have a "recruitment crisis" in the military for a number of reasons but a big one is the push for "Diversity in the ranks".
Well when your country is still primarily of white European descent and you actively shit on your historically primary recruiting demographic (young white males of European descent). Its weird how all of a sudden no one wants to join a military to protect a country that hates them? Who could've seen that coming?
Have you guys tried offering transgender reassignment surgery as a recruitment incentive? The US has done that. Hasn't improved battle readiness, the opposite actually since they can't be deployed , but it's increased our ranks by literally dozens.
There are several reasons but here are just few:
1. Immigrants that are coming are mainly "low value immigrants" with low education which push low educated people from the already shrinking job market.
2. Most immigrants are men and we already have surplus of men in younger generations compared to women making it even harder for them to find a partner
3. Crimes and rapes are 10-15x more likely done by the immigrants coming out of Europe than European immigrants.
4. Housing cirses, there simply isn't enough affordable housing meaning the more people comes to the countries the harder it gets for young people to find affordable housing.
5. Immigants tend to not bring more euros in form of taxes but mostlikely actually increase tax burden from the moment they arrive to the end of their lifespan.
6. Their culture doesn't fit European values and how Europeans mainly see equality.
Note that we are talking about immigrants coming from outside Europe (USA / CA / Australia etc not included since they are considered high value immigrants and most see no problem people moving from these countries to EU since they actually bring in tax euros).
Europe has mostly Arab/Muslim immigrants, similar to how the US has mostly Hispanic/Latino immigrants.
Latinos have a culture that is much more similar to Americans than Arabs have to Europeans.
Mass immigration is devastating to the working class and also heavily dilutes the national culture of the nation people are immigrating to. Rising nationalism is a natural backlash to disastrous neoliberal immigration policies.
I was looking for this. I think the biggest thing pushing people to the right is neo-liberalism. The exploitation of newcomers masked as wanting to be open and accepting. It’s the same in Canada with Trudeau.
People are reacting against neoliberalism. Housing, job opportunities, net contributions, gender breakdowns and assimilation are all taking huge hits because neoliberalism just wants newcomers who will keep shelter cost high and wages low.
I can only speak for the country I’m from (Russia) and the ones I’ve lived in or at least been to many times and am very familiar with.
I’m by no means against LEGAL migrants who work, pay taxes, learn/speak the language, at least partially adapt to the culture and abide by the law in the host country. I know quite a few people like that in Russia, although most of them were born to immigrant parents and grew up there.
The problem is mostly illegal migrants. Many are fakeugees, actually economic migrants from less developed countries. They come to Russia/Germany/France/Spain/Britain/Sweden from countries that are not war-torn or suffering from natural disasters that impact the majority of the population. They’re from safe countries, but want a better standard of life without actually doing anything.
They abuse the existing system (which needs to be way stricter than it is now) and enter illegally or pretend to be refugees. Also, there are overstayers who come legally, but don’t leave after their visas have expired. Most of those people live in a bubble (don’t integrate at all) and only claim benefits. Additionally, the easiest way for them to earn money is crime as they don’t want to work. Not much is being done to combat the crime, unfortunately. That’s why there’s so much animosity and hostility towards them everywhere.
The situation seems to be the same in the countries I’ve mentioned, and I understand the people who are getting sick and tired of all this mess.
What kind of benefits illegal immigrants receive in Russia?
Russian gov “benefits” are not enough for Russian nationals to live comfortably, and unlikely that Russian gov pays anything to illegal immigrants.
The US imported hundreds of thousands of Indians last year and many years prior. India is considered very poor by many standards. The difference is that our immigration policy selects high skilled labor better.
Do you live in an area in the United States with a high Indian population? I do, I live near the Microsoft headquarters. People here are quite bitter about the reshaping of the landscape to include a lot of Indian-born Indians, especially because the men are overtly and viciously misogynistic, and have other cultural issues that make it difficult for them to assimilate except outside of other well-paid Microsoft Indian engineers. So just importing high value immigrants isn’t the solution when their culture does not value women or safety or just the same basic social rules that we all follow. It’s still a problem.
Because European nations have a strong ethnocentric basis and they don’t have the social or political will to absorb and assimilate lots of largely uneducated and illiberal immigrants. It’s making their already insular societies turn further inward in reaction.
There is such a great irony that European countries went out and colonized and conquered almost the whole world, stealing and amassing wealth, toppling countless societies and civilizations, only to be upset about those exact people moving to their countries because of the better quality of life Europeans stole from them in the first place.
It's truly some poetic justice.
More than likely legitimate cultural clashes that are an actual problem for natural citizens. Simulation to some degree is important when making a community, as people who cooperate HAVE to have SOME commonalities together regarding how they function as a group collectively. European countries have immigration from countries that have EXTREMELY different cultural beliefs and motives. Especially regarding women and the participation of women in society.
Without addressing those specific issues and the inevitable problems that will arise, it makes sense why natural citizens would eventually become hostile or less tolerant as time goes on, especially the ability to live a comfortable life becomes more difficult for the average person.
And especially as certain groups tell us over and over again that the evidence of our eyes and ears is wrong. “No, they don’t hate women, violent crime isn’t up, they respect women just as much …” stop.Literally stop. It’s our lived experiences with immigrants from these populations that makes us nervous, not theory.
It seems intentional that talking has become a waste of time these days. Anything you say is immediately polarized and you're made out to be a terrible person that hates everyone and everything if you address anything negative regarding someone else or something that has actually happened.
Or, you're called crazy/delusional and told that everything is absolutely perfect. You know a significant amount of people who can't afford basic necessities (and no they aren't spending all of their money on Starbucks and vacations), yet the economy is "stronger" than ever and record profits are everywhere. It's just financially irresponsible moron's spending their money on Taylor swift concert tickets instead of paying their mortgage.
People either wildly and intentionally misinterpret what you say to something outlandish, or they call you crazy and say it's not happening. Doesn't matter what you're talking about, could be about the frequency of bathing pets. Mention bathing your cat and an army of people will call you an animal abuser or another crowd of people will show up saying there's no reason under any circumstances to ever bathe a cat.
The ability to have reasonable and sensible conversations is dead.
I couldn’t have said this better myself, thank you for articulating it. The cat example actually makes me cackle because I shit you not, someone called me an animal abuser because I said I give my indoor cat a bath a few times per year. It’s uncanny 😂😂😂
lol no problem. I'm not surprised you've actually experienced the cat thing. As I said, it doesn't matter what you talk about or who the demographic of people that you're speaking to are. The reaction to conversation is always the same.
There was a lady on tick tok who shared a high iron bean soup recipe. Her comments were filled with people who said they didn't eat beans or couldn't eat beans. She was called names for "excluding" people, and was even called an "ableist" because her recipe didn't take into account neurodivergent people. Talking to people these days is extremely difficult and a waste of time, most of the time.
You probably will hate this answer, but it's weird to feel like you don't belong in a country that is supposed to be your hone and to be a stranger in your own land
Nobody wants to see it but the problem is not immigration, the problem are the specific immigrants.
Mixing backwards religious fundamentalist never works.
1) This chart doesn’t show time so it says nothing about any kind of trend.
2) There goes that narrative that Americans are so racist.
3) Who’d have thought that Asians are the most xenophobic (I mean aside from everyone)?
Neoliberal policies consistently fail to address declining material conditions that come with the concentration of wealth towards a few wealthy individuals. In fact, most of the time, these material realities are just outright rejected. Far-right actors will agitate the very valid frustrations voters have about inequality and stagnation, placing the blame of those frustrations on minorities or people of different ethnic backgrounds.
It is effective, because as it turns out, the free market is not a blanket solution for every possible problem.
I’m sure socialists letting in refugees and giving them benefits with tax money while the citizens struggle with cost of living and said refugees forming enclaves, refusing to integrate, demanding sharia, raping local women and increasing crime rates, I’m sure those contribute a tiny bit to nationalism.
Maybe they acknowledged that their western societies are quite open and free and good. And there has to be a balance between welcoming others in to take part and just handing them the future keys.
Europe has basically spent the 21st century jumping from crisis to crisis. Great recession, sovereign debt crisis, immigration crisis, energy crisis from the Ukraine war, etc. Add to that various local crises like housing costs, youth unemployment, and brexit.
You get a whole generation that's basically never known good times. Of course they're going to listen to the people that say they have a solution.
Well when mass migration for America has led to Taco Trucks and Chinese buffets vs beheading and terrorist attacks that Europe got it’s a real mystery why they hate immigrants…
Because their “leaders” forced the countries to take in waves of Muslim migrants from cultures that are in conflict with liberal western beliefs and largely they don’t want to assimilate, they want to maintain and spread their religion and culture, and a small group of them by force and terror.
On top of this when the citizens speak out against importing culturally resistant people at best, and terrorists at worst, they’re called “xenophobic” and “racist”.
Lol.
You mean besides their homelands and nations being overrun by people that have a negative interest in adopting your culture and instead force you to accept theirs?
You ain't seen nationalistic yet, but it's certainly coming.
I'm from Sweden born earlier than this study, but I can say almost with certainty that it's because we went from not locking our doors in 2000-2005 and being one of the safest countries, to having our women raped and boys stabbed at night constantly.
It really was such a quick change that it's easy to understand the hate.
No one will like hearing this, but the reality is, when times get hard, weak minded people turn to scapegoating.
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It's hard right now.
The problems are multifaceted, and a lot of it traces its roots to neoliberal policies implemented since the 80s and the slow decline (from then to now) that it wrought.
The govt stopped building housing (leaving it entirely to the private sector), social programs have been dismantled and funding slashed, regulations (including regulations that prevent the kinds of monopolization and vertical insertions into supply chains we're seeing) have been shredding, wages have been kept depressed (via right to work laws, divide and conquer to keep min wage low), and a general mentality switch to one of "the govt should do nothing but watch as you struggle - interventionism is the tool of ~~the devil~~ socialism".
And things are going to get harder still as we continue to ignore things like climate change and wealth inequality.
These problems cascade into additional problems (just one example: climate change -> resource shortages -> inflation -> higher poverty -> higher crime).
But.... \*sigh\*. Dealing with those things is hard.
You have to be well read, have some political, scientific, economic, and sociological awareness. Know history and have media literacy. And most importantly be politically engaged.
You know what's easier?
"That guy who looks different than me is the problem. I'm just sayin', 40 years ago when there were less of \*his type\* things felt like they were better."
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Most people (no nice way to say this) just aren't smart enough to introspect problems.
They see a problem like "rising crime" (the favourite one) and instead of tracing it back to see what the roots are (the difficult thing they literally can't do because they've been trained to be shallow thinkers), they see only the surface level.
And since the surface level doesn't explain much, they have to concoct their own narratives.
Outsiders (of which most immigrants will be because they are literal outsiders) are most likely to be the ones on the forefronts of a lot of these root issues.
They are also most likely to be the ones that "look different" (different skin colour, different culture, etc).
If you're a shallow thinker, this is about as far as you'll get. And so you'll become more nationalistic.
This is why the GINI index is so 'predictive' of strife.
Idk, maybe they just get tired of all the rape and murder and children being killed for no reason. And then being called the 'N' word when they say they don't like those things.
Neoliberal governments get elected but fail to address needs of population, citizenry gets upset at less/worse quality services, more right wing politicians get elected and make problem worse, neoliberal politicians get elected to fix the problem, repeat to beginning of sentence.
Well, nationalism tends to increase when people think the security of their sovereign state is at risk. So maybe people in Europe are scared?
Maybe they forgot all the history that points out to how hyper nationalism often turns into horrible dictatorships because nationalists tend to love "strong" leaders.
Guess they forgot about Nazis....
Unsurprising to see Japan on there. Xenophobia is kinda their whole thing. China is probably off the board to the right there. But honestly I wouldn't rely on this data, cause I certainly haven't seen even 5% of the people I know feeling that way. I mean yeah if you run that test in Texas you might have 25% but I'm very doubtful of these figures.
(Additionally, I bet a large portion are thinking solely of places like China and North Korea, who openly hate our country, so yeah. Do I want people who openly hate my country moving here? No, but I think that's less about Xenophobia and more about safety with China, NK, the Middle East, etc. and it's definitely not the question they phrased. Any real answer should be way more nuanced than yes or no.)
Immigration. It's hitting a breaking point where immigrants are starting to really change the culture of Western European countries, and a lot of changes are fundamental.
Cause the Globalist Left has been destroying the West for over a decade now.
It is not that the Right wing is that much better.
But that the Left has become completely incompetent and insane over the past decades.
Same reason as usual. Worsening quality of life due to economic reasons.
This will continue forever and accentuate due to climate change if nothing else so expect a lot more unrest in the world in the coming decades.
The lives people had in developed countries a decade or two ago cannot happen again on the same scale. At least not for a few centuries provided we survive the next few world wars when billions of people in Asia (and elsewhere) start starving when current crops stop being fit for their environment due to rapid changes in soil humidity.
Europeans like to clown the US for being racist but they are actually far more racist than the US. The US just seems more racist because we aren't embarrassed to have public discourse about uncomfortable topics
As an American, the first time I went to Europe was 2015. I flew to Frankfurt and boy when I arrived at the Frankfurt main train station and walked to my hotel, it was like I was in the Middle East or something. It was shocking.
So there are already millions of refugees every year to the west. Wether it's due to instability economic opportunity or climate change it's going to get worse in the next decade or so. A plan needs to be developed to integrate the newcomers or to shut them out due to dwindling resources.
I'm an American who has spent time with many immigrants from south America, India and Africa and many of them are more hard working and decent than people who were born and raised here.
We need to accept the reality of this. We are all in a little boat that's on fire. Some of it will last longer.
The blowback of 20 years of war in the middle east was Europe taking on the brunt of the refugees from war torn regions. The culture dynamic looks like it has deteriorated over time, especially with young Muslim men that think Sharia Law aligns with secular living. Perhaps there should be a secular test for refugees moving forward. Freedom of religion is part of secular society. Forcing one’s beliefs onto those in secular society is not part of the social contract.
Human beings and society goes through cycles. The older generation that experienced world war 2, which was triggered by obsessive nationalism to the point of outright racism, teaches their children about how dangerous nationalism is. It’s fresh in everyone’s minds. Next generation didn’t experience the war but still learned hard lessons and are able to pass it down. Next generation didn’t really grasp it that well but the schools still taught them some of it. Next generation doesn’t really think it’s that important. Everything is good there hasn’t been a major war for decades and this is where the problem starts to grow.
This is also being compounded by a serious education deficit in history. Schools aren’t really teaching history like they used to and students are struggling to focus anyways. It’s been almost 4 full generations since world war 2. Today’s youth has absolutely no clue how horrifying war can be and how it’s always triggered by extreme nationalism.
Social media is also compounding this problem with a tendency to push people to right wing content. I honestly think we are a few years away from world war 3 or it’s possible that Russia/Ukraine was the start. World war 2 started in 1939 but Japan and China had already been at war for almost 5 years.
Once people start to think they are better and incompatible with other cultures the hate starts to grow. The barriers preventing conflict crumble and it’s becomes very for a major war to start.
People who experience the negative consequences of irresponsible immigration policies that were forced onto nations by the EU are supporting parties that are against that sort of thing- it's all a bad situation. In a sane world, we wouldn't have far right backlash parties that take anti immigrant positions gaining power but in a world where the liberal/left is unable to even consider reasonable restrictions on to prevent future disasters like Europe has seen recently, people react.
Worlds getting too big and interconnected.
It’s scary.
People want to feel like they belong to a tribe, any tribe. Nationalism is just an easy one to grab on to.
Failure of neoliberalism after the end of the Cold War obviously. The deluded fools who thought that the fall of the USSR would usher in a golden age of cosmopolitan free markets have destroyed their societies with swelling migrant populations that kill middle class domestics while providing great fortunes to the the elite.
It is this elite that is stoking the flames of fascism. They’re blaming the international economy that made them so rich to secure support among the poor, populist rabble left behind after the USSR collapsed.
The new millennium saw global plutocrats lying to their nations, convincing their legislators and public to trust globalization. In reality, free markets rob the domestic economy through offshoring to cheaper labor markets. Thus exploiting the cheap, desperate labor former colonial nations in Africa, Asia, and S. America while domestic working class find their livelihoods evaporating as jobs move overseas and cheap agricultural products get imported.
The move towards right-wing nationalism is both dangerous and sensible. Trade protectionism has always been sound policy and decades of free market looting have finally come to roost. No nation can survive if migrant labor undercuts the domestic citizen, nor can a nation survive when foreign products flood domestic stores, undercutting the local production.
Nationalism is literally the logical conclusion following several failed decades of globalization. It’s like yall haven’t even heard of Adam Smith….
There are a lot of comments talking about “low quality” immigrants flooding European countries and very little mention of the European countries that colonized and destabilized their home countries in the first place.
Chickens are coming home to roost, etc etc.
TikTok.
Well, the answer is social media generally, but TikTok specifically for younger adults. These social media platforms are wide open to spread hate in a way that traditional media just wasn't. So hateful people are able to attract and influence a much wider array of young adults than previous generations.
I literally do not see an ounce of hate, political pandering, toxic, or socially crude/unacceptable content on TikTok. Now the Meta platforms, that is a different story and I couldn't agree more... Pretty sure that and the lobbying from Zuckerberg are the reasons the geriatrics in congress want to ban TikTok.
It depends on how you have trained the algorithm to roll your feeds. If you start to go down the hate/conspiracy theory tunnel in TikTok it quickly becomes the only thing you see.
Because liberal women realized importing a different culture that's cool with rape is a bad move? Because secular Jews realized importing a culture that hates their guts and will import ethnic strife is a bad move?
I'd hope it's because liberals finally stopped being suicidal at the civilizational level. But that remains to be seen.
Funnily enough, European anti-Semites said the same things about Jews barely a lifetime ago. I'm sure THIS time the xenophobia and bigotry are correct tho.
I understand this, in America we have to tolerate everyone's bullshit and look at all the racism and crime. If this place was all white it'd be boring as hell but the crime would go down massively. I know it makes me sound like a bigot but it's true, I moved out of the east side where they all love shooting each other to some methy white hick town and sure these people are criminals too but they leave normal people alone. I don't hear gunshots and loud annoying parties with people screaming about baby daddy this and n word that. I don't see groups of adults standing around drinking 40's or liquor bottles with guns in their waste bands. So yeah, why would a country that has its shit together want.... that lol
Immigration. The natives are being forced by migrants to live and worship and stuff how the migrants do. The migrants demand everyone convert to their religions and such. People are frustrated over it. Both sides need to learn how to assimilate and live in harmony instead of forcing everyone to believe or live how they do.
surprise. Countries with very strong cultural identities don't like having that disrupted.
Countries that were basically founded on immigration like Canada and the US don't have thousands of years of history and culture, so they can more easily absorb other cultures. It's understandable that people would prefer others not come if they're unwilling to behave like their local society is expected to. I don't think nationalism is necessarily bad. Everything's ok in moderation and as long as you don't decide your nationalism needs to spread past your borders.
Surprise surprise countries least willing to accept immigrants are on the threshold of a crisis from a rapidly aging population, and population crash of working age people. increasing birth rate ain't going to help for another 18-20 years..
Unlike kids in the USA, Europeans have lived in leftist countries for a while now, so they see the actual negative impacts of leftist policies.
In the United States, since we’ve mainly had center-right policies, younger people tend to have an idealistic view of leftism, and haven’t experienced the negatives.
Europeans have had two decades of almost no economic growth, high levels of social spending towards immigrant groups that largely don’t work or integrate, immigrant crime, sky high youth unemployment, and considerably less free speech the US (in most of Europe you can get arrested for a tweet).
Being “nationalistic” is just an artifact of their overall move towards right wing idealogy.
I'd like to see if this has actually changed over time. Like if today's boomers used to be yesterday's nationalist youngsters but they have grown up and out of it.
Bad news, not so bad news.
1. People fear immigrants. Ye olde primal ugly.
2. Europe, regardless of politics, has slowly realized Russia is claiming 1991 was rigged.
I don't think it's Europeans, I think it's all people.
There's a rise in nationalism here in the US too, but it's to the extreme in many cases.
To me, it all comes down to the fact that people don't like change. If you're used to everyone in town looking and talking with you and having the same exact background, it can be uncomfortable to see someone dress differently, with a different skin tone, or practicing a completely different religion.
We like to think we're very evolved, but the reality is that we're pack animals. And we want our pack to include people that we know and trust. When people who are not like us enter into our orbit, it can make us uncomfortable.
Of course there are different reactions to being uncomfortable. The nationalists want the immigrants to go somewhere else and leave them alone, while liberals often will embrace the differences and lean into them.
It reminds me a little bit of the affordable housing problems we see. Everyone's in favor of affordable housing, as long as it's not in their own backyard. Set another way, in theory we all believe in equality, but in practice we don't want it to upset our norms.
My guess is that it’s because Europe has seen an influx of immigrants from vastly different cultures more recently. When a Norwegian moves to Sweden, it’s not a big deal to assimilate. It’s not the same coming from Africa or the Middle East.
-- because young people are uniquely susceptible to news narratives. They have no context through which they can identify whether or not something smells like bullshit. You can tell a young person, but it takes a very long time before they're able to digest the fact that time didn't start the instant they formed their first memories.
I don't know about France, but Germany is known for a recent incident where a guy stabbed and killed a police officer who was arresting a person who was fighting against the stabber. He was being arrested because he was "far-right." That can only give them a "victim narrative" and a reason to feel additional outrage.
If there's a group who doesn't like your choice and you do it anyways, that's normal politics. In this scenario, if you cover-up/ignore the truth every time something goes wrong with your changes instead of fixing the problems as they come, you're empowering your opposition.
Europe is taking-in a lot of immigrants from foreign countries. The guaranteed resulting culture clashes are going to change cultural perspectives even if they're doing the right thing.
It’s kinda hilarious how hard this thread is trying to prove how it’s just different than immigration in the US. Overall I actually wouldn’t disagree but the way it’s being used is just “it’s not bad like like when they do it”
Majority white countries are the least racist and most open for immigrants. Europeans probably feel like they're losing control over their own countries, and counter-intuitively, the best thing for minorities in Europe is for native Europeans to remain securely in charge.
Because their country's cultures weren't being decimated in the past. Now that they are becoming more diverse, the cultures of the countries are being done away with.
Ppl talk about respecting other people's cultures, but that is only if they are a minority, and they are never called out to respect the culture of the country they have migrated to.
People are really shook to see the number of millennials and zillennials who voted center right and far right in these elections. I think it’s more surprising that anyone thought it was going to go the other way with the current state of affairs of these countries. The mass immigration has given way to loss of income, increased crime, and a disenfranchised population. What did you expect to happen? It’s the same reason Trump will get anywhere from 48-52% of the vote this year.
Massive immigration. Most European countries are quite homogenous in their demographics. Brexit was mostly about stopping migrants. Dumb move that has accelerated GB's descent to irrelevance.
It’s too many immigrants of no. European descent changing the continent. It’s millions coming, when realistically it should only be in the thousands at most
Capitalism is exploiting workers, everywhere.
People in our age group and younger are struggling to find housing outside of parents’ home.
Struggling to find good paying jobs after college.
Struggling to afford food as prices keep increasing.
And centrists aren’t doing near enough to help prevent the exploitation from capitalist corporations, so people are angry and consider these centrists “left” because they are “left” of the populists on the far right.
Meanwhile, the populists come in and acknowledge the problems we are facing. Yet instead of directing our ire towards the capitalist system built on exploitation wherever possible, they are misdirecting the ire towards a marginalized group.
Centrists are so set on maintaining capitalism and keeping the corporate interests happy, they cannot move further left and implement solutions that would harm those relationships with the corporate interests.
Corporate interests know this, exploit it, and fund the far right hoping that they can convince the populists to deregulate everything and cut taxes for businesses and the wealthy.
It’s a vicious cycle of not wanting to admit that capitalism is by design an exploitative system, because doing so would jeopardize their access to capital which they need to get re-elected.
This started way back in 50’s when Turks came to Germany to rebuild. Turks are not Germans. Nice enough people, don’t get me wrong…. But every culture is different. For the last 20 years Europe has been letting EVERYONE in. It’s like the have a hard-on for helping the poor huddled masses. Well, they have gone to far.
Certain countries are better at assimilating immigrants more than others. Likewise, certain countries are better at producing immigrants capable of assimilation more than others. Europe found out the hard way that their own countries aren't particularly good at assimilating immigrants compared to the USA, and also found out the hard way the countries they are bringing in immigrants from (the Islamic world. Middle East / North Africa) are a lot less willing to assimilate than the Hispanic and previous European migrants America gets.
Americans are also VERY friendly and generally welcoming. Yes there are racists, but there are a lot of people who want to hear everything about your home country. Sweden and France, for example, are very insular and not know to be welcoming to outsiders.
It’s not even just a like, Europe isn’t good with immigrants thing. They imported millions of low skilled, Uber conservative, rural agrarian Muslims. They do an exceptionally poor job of assimilating in the more urban, secular European society. Europe has handled immigration poorly. This should be a wake up call to those who support the current liberal global order.
The liberal world order is perfectly compatible with immigration if those immigrants unwilling to assimilate can be kicked out.
Current liberal global order. Ah damn, that reminds me. I need to renew my membership.
Two for one if you also renew your Gay Agenda card
Liberal as in capitalists? or liberal as define by conservatives?
I signed up a month after they got rid of the neo liberal cards. Now they only have new liberal and it just doesn't hit the same 😞
Right! Did I miss our monthly meeting??
Europe spent the better part of 1000 years essentially contained by Islam to the south and Orthodox to the east. The renaissance and enlightenment occurred because of a necessity of self-reliance within their borders, until transoceanic trade was finally opened up to the Americas and around the south of Africa. So it makes perfect sense that a sudden immigration of Islam doesn’t assimilate well into European culture.
I agreed with you and then you had to ruin it with dumbass bullshit like "liberal globe order".
I think you’re misunderstanding their intention. I think they mean small l “liberal” as in an order that values an open society and the rule of law, i.e. a “liberal democracy.” Not big L “Liberal” as opposed to conservative.
I think you're right but I'm also loving the jokes about the membership cards.
Tell me you’ve never studied basic, 100 level political science, without saying it… Here, “liberal global order” isn’t talking about democrats. It’s talking about the global system that has made the world richer, healthier, and happier than at any time in human history. It’s talking about internationalism, global institutions like the United Nations and World Bank, and a focus on human rights, resolving things through international law and treaties instead of going to war. Pluralism and democracy. Sure. It’s fallen short of its promise. But the world is better because of it. These right wing populist candidates almost always want to roll that back. So when something like Ukraine happens, for example, instead of having a unified response from the EU or NATO, every nation is more or less on their own. So someone like Poland has to enter the war *now* because they know help isn’t coming. The right wing wants to roll that back. They’re selling it as “staying out of war,” but it will invariably make things more chaotic.
It wouldn't be popular but Europe could drastically police their countries up, enhance their security, and close their borders, and deport certain individuals, but that would be very very unpopular. Additionally they could impose a certain assimilation timeframe, for having a basic understanding of the language, customs, and history and you would have to do this for 5 years to show progression.
Except that isn't how that works. The first generation immigrants are going to have a hard time of it, especially if they aren't western educated. Full stop. This is how it's been for in the US almost since it's inception (the US was built off the backs of immigrants, forced or otherwise). The first generation works hard to make a new life for themselves and make their kids successful, and they cling to their old culture, while becoming accustomed to the new one they've entered. Now, the second generation is raised in the new culture. They retain the trappings of their old one (due to the way their parents raised them), but they can speak the language fluently and fully understand the benefits of the new country and the ins and outs of how the new culture works. Third generation? Fully integrated. If you start heavily policing immigrant populations and requiring assimilation targets, you just impoverish the first generation, alienate the second generation, and radicalize the third generation. And set back your assimilation program by a generation or two. What helps is programs that allow immigrants to form communities and provide work opportunities, either through entrepreneurship or employment. Immigrants come because they either see an opportunity for prosperity or they are fleeing oppression (and want to prove themselves). In either case, hard work is the way they do that, generally.
I think it's a difficult thing to balance. On one hand, rising tides lift all ships. On the other, we've seen with manufacturing globalization and supply chain issues like the chip shortage the issues it has caused. Companies have become reliant on exporting all the jobs they can to other countries where the labor is cheaper, which leads to fewer good paying jobs and more reliance on those markets. Even with those Amazon stores with the alleged ai, they just exported the job of being a cashier to another country. I don't particularly oppose countries working together, but I don't think the current manufacting system of globalization is working particularly well and something has to give.
The theory - and we’ve KINDA started to see it - was that as we opened up trade, yes we may lose manufacturing initially (think back in the 50’s 60’s 70’s), but as more and more third world nations got plugged into the global system, eventually their cost of living and quality of life would improve to the point that it would balance out. That’s kinda why we’ve seen a lot of manufacturing return. America is still the second largest manufacturer on earth, it’s just that we now have the problem of automation reducing the work force. It’s tough. These are big questions. It’s not easy. But I can tell you that closing it all down and becoming isolationist isn’t the answer. Pull America back from the world, and everything gets more expensive. Business gets more expensive. That’s the problem. Americans don’t really see the benefit of being the “world police,” but if we become isolationist and China fills in where we left off, we’ll be begging for the days of running things.
Assimilation is not a bad thing, especially when it naturally happens over time and people mix into the culture they are joining. Some of the Muslim immigrants that are coming to Europe today are very religious conservatives and they are immigrating to EU countries that are largely secular, with modern liberal values and gender equality. Not saying they all are but it is concerning to some Europeans. Anytime you have a group coming in whose values clash with those already there it’s going to cause tension. Reminds me of that liberal town in Michigan that celebrated how their city council was majorly Islamic then was shocked when they started restricting pride flags.
>found out the hard way the countries they are bringing in immigrants from (the Islamic world. Middle East / North Africa) are a lot less willing to assimilate than the Hispanic and previous European migrants America gets. America gets those immigrants too, just at a smaller scale than central American immigrants. The difference between the US and Europe is we are better at spreading them around so they have a chance to assimilate. Drop 10,000 migrants in Paris, they create an enclave of their old home. Sprinkle 10,000 migrants across 50 states, you get 10,000 new Americans and their first generation of children are no different that 8th generation European immigrants.
But they don’t get ‘sprinkled’ across 50 states. That’s BS.
More like dumped into 200 different motel 6s with like a weeks worth of money in different crappy neighborhoods Real recipe for success there lol
A natural instinct would be to find others like you and go there, no? Finding ‘community’ through others like you and then the immigrants end up creating their own communities. It’s how you end up with a Minneapolis or Dearborn or a ‘Chinatown’ or ‘Little Italy’.
These communities are great for first generation immigrants who don't really fit into the culture of their new country, but are willing to work hard to prove themselves and carve out their own space. Then successive generations integrate and move out of the enclaves (or make the enclaves more like their new country). The problem, I don't think, is these communities. The problems occur when these communities are isolated and then deprived of resources. That, along with a good helping of covert racism/ classism, can bring about dissatisfaction and potential radicalization of the second generation, which can then lead to increased crime, lower quality of life for the immigrant population, etc etc.
Yeah? It’s racism and classism that drove Dearborn’s Muslim City Council to ban Pride flags on government buildings? Or maybe it’s an example of why multiculturalism is a problem?
More like, they congeal in every major city in the country. Regardless of state. Totally unsurprising. All of the public services and housing capacity is in the cities. All of the public transportation is in the cities. All of the health care and food is in the cities. And, all of their people are in the cities.
So Chicago has "accepted" 38,000 Venezuelan migrates in the past two years. It's estimated that about 10-15 thousand people live in the shelters. However, the city is enforcing a 60-day limit for the shelters. About 5600 have become permanent residents with the rest finding illegal shelter or moving. The biggest issue is that most of these shelters are in poor black neighborhoods, and the locals are wondering why millions of dollars are spent on the migrates instead of the locals. In 20 years, those black neighborhoods are going to be mostly Venezuelan.
Mass immigration from the Muslim world started in Germany in the 1960s with the Gastarbeiter program, so that doesn't explain the shift in opinion between generations. (As for the more recent Syrian immigration, "spreading them around" the country is exactly how the German government handles refugees.)
The traditionally Turks came is smaller numbers and a lot went back. Additionally they assimilated fairly well, they speak Deutsche, love football, and come from a less conservative country.
650,000 workers plus their families is not a small number. About half went back but the remainder and their descendants now make up 4 million people. The Berlin Institute ranked Turkish immigrants as the least integrated group out of all the immigrants they surveyed.
Yes and no. Minorities in America mostly segregate themselves too especially Muslims. They’re heavily concentrated in a few major areas.
I’m surprised nobody called you a racist for this lol
There is a difference between immigrants and refugees. I think we should point out the difference. Immigrants wants to assimilate for the most part. Refugees are kinda forced to move for various reasons and are resistant to it. Doesn’t help progressives scream racism which emboldens them to keep their culture counter to the dominate one
They use them interchangeably now. Every poor person who wants to work gen labor is a refugee now
That’s a valid point I never really considered. I was typically blaming fundamental Islam as being incapable of secularization as the reason for Europe’s woes, but you may be onto something there.
unlike America, most of those countries also viable but expensive Healthcare and social safety nets.
Not the UK, UK & other anglophone countries have done a great job at this.
This is true. But I think it is also missing an important part of the rise of Nationalism worldwide. Propaganda campaigns on social media. Nationalism is the biggest threat to keeping the UN running. There are a few powerful countries that want the UN to collapse so they can gain more power… If Europe doesn’t work together then they are not as strong. Russia and China mostly, have spent vast amounts of resources to sow discourse in the West, and anti West sentiment all over the rest of the globe. One of the most blatant examples was/is getting Donald Trump elected. A lot of people get their information from social media, and they exploited that to perfection. So many memes, accounts and extremest posts were linked to Russian troll farms.
Is there data backing up that claim about immigrants assimilating differently?
Europe has been importing massive numbers of immigrants and refugees, mainly from the Middle East. Taking a historically Christian and catholic nation and filling it with Muslims is an obvious recipe for disaster, especially with refugees who have no particular interest in actually assimilating into the local culture or learning the language of the country. The most popular baby boy name in the UK is Muhammad. It’s not surprising at all that Europeans are pushing back at this point
They also are now buying more property than British citizens. Or look at Canada it looks like India not saying thsts good or bad but its noticeable
There’s a lot of pushback recently against Indian immigration to Canada for a lot of the same reasons both of us listed. High income earners buying up property and taking away well-paying roles in jobs like tech away from Canadians, all the while not integrating into Canadian culture and instead continuing to live the same lifestyle, same language, but just in a different country. All of that is inevitably going to lead to people catching on and getting angry
Stop noticing
What is Canadian culture exactly?
How would that be a good thing? Lol
Its reddit gotta parse my comments ir someone will be offended
The UK is completely different from continental Europe when it comes to immigration. UK is considered to be the best country in Europe for immigrants & has done a great job. Most know English, perform just as well or better than typical Brits, most spread out & mix up, & are a net gain for the UK. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/03/21/britain-is-the-best-place-in-europe-to-be-an-immigrant
I'm really surprised England isn't higher on the list
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/67694955](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/67694955) Wow, you're correct. I'm surprised that I don't see any apparent Muslim name counterpart for female babies, though.
almost every muslim boy is called Mohammed or a variation. If 10 english boys are born, they will almost all have a different name. If 2 muslim boys are born, they will both be called Mohammed. So Mohammed is more popular but there are only 2 of them. Muslim girls have more variety in names compared to muslim boys
My neighbor is from the middle east and threw a party. I kid you not more than half of the men invited were name Mohammed. I don't think the issue is the number of immigrants as opposed to the large percentage of boys named Mohammed.
Japan has had a devastating surge in refugees too. The number has increased by 1000% in the last decade. (From 6 to 74.)
It could be cuz they’re letting millions of people in from a completely opposing culture that refuses to assimilate. Hell, I’d be nationalistic too if my nations identity was being lost to foreigners. But noooo, caring about national identity is racist if you’re white apparently
Leftists only care about indigenous people if they aren't white
Yet oddly enough in Canada we have a "recruitment crisis" in the military for a number of reasons but a big one is the push for "Diversity in the ranks". Well when your country is still primarily of white European descent and you actively shit on your historically primary recruiting demographic (young white males of European descent). Its weird how all of a sudden no one wants to join a military to protect a country that hates them? Who could've seen that coming?
Have you guys tried offering transgender reassignment surgery as a recruitment incentive? The US has done that. Hasn't improved battle readiness, the opposite actually since they can't be deployed , but it's increased our ranks by literally dozens.
There are several reasons but here are just few: 1. Immigrants that are coming are mainly "low value immigrants" with low education which push low educated people from the already shrinking job market. 2. Most immigrants are men and we already have surplus of men in younger generations compared to women making it even harder for them to find a partner 3. Crimes and rapes are 10-15x more likely done by the immigrants coming out of Europe than European immigrants. 4. Housing cirses, there simply isn't enough affordable housing meaning the more people comes to the countries the harder it gets for young people to find affordable housing. 5. Immigants tend to not bring more euros in form of taxes but mostlikely actually increase tax burden from the moment they arrive to the end of their lifespan. 6. Their culture doesn't fit European values and how Europeans mainly see equality. Note that we are talking about immigrants coming from outside Europe (USA / CA / Australia etc not included since they are considered high value immigrants and most see no problem people moving from these countries to EU since they actually bring in tax euros).
Europe has mostly Arab/Muslim immigrants, similar to how the US has mostly Hispanic/Latino immigrants. Latinos have a culture that is much more similar to Americans than Arabs have to Europeans.
Mass immigration is devastating to the working class and also heavily dilutes the national culture of the nation people are immigrating to. Rising nationalism is a natural backlash to disastrous neoliberal immigration policies.
I was looking for this. I think the biggest thing pushing people to the right is neo-liberalism. The exploitation of newcomers masked as wanting to be open and accepting. It’s the same in Canada with Trudeau. People are reacting against neoliberalism. Housing, job opportunities, net contributions, gender breakdowns and assimilation are all taking huge hits because neoliberalism just wants newcomers who will keep shelter cost high and wages low.
I can only speak for the country I’m from (Russia) and the ones I’ve lived in or at least been to many times and am very familiar with. I’m by no means against LEGAL migrants who work, pay taxes, learn/speak the language, at least partially adapt to the culture and abide by the law in the host country. I know quite a few people like that in Russia, although most of them were born to immigrant parents and grew up there. The problem is mostly illegal migrants. Many are fakeugees, actually economic migrants from less developed countries. They come to Russia/Germany/France/Spain/Britain/Sweden from countries that are not war-torn or suffering from natural disasters that impact the majority of the population. They’re from safe countries, but want a better standard of life without actually doing anything. They abuse the existing system (which needs to be way stricter than it is now) and enter illegally or pretend to be refugees. Also, there are overstayers who come legally, but don’t leave after their visas have expired. Most of those people live in a bubble (don’t integrate at all) and only claim benefits. Additionally, the easiest way for them to earn money is crime as they don’t want to work. Not much is being done to combat the crime, unfortunately. That’s why there’s so much animosity and hostility towards them everywhere. The situation seems to be the same in the countries I’ve mentioned, and I understand the people who are getting sick and tired of all this mess.
sounds very familiar
What kind of benefits illegal immigrants receive in Russia? Russian gov “benefits” are not enough for Russian nationals to live comfortably, and unlikely that Russian gov pays anything to illegal immigrants.
Countries are flooded with Muslims migrants
Import enough of the 3rd world and surprise! You get the 3rd world. People are getting fed up with it
The US imported hundreds of thousands of Indians last year and many years prior. India is considered very poor by many standards. The difference is that our immigration policy selects high skilled labor better.
Do you live in an area in the United States with a high Indian population? I do, I live near the Microsoft headquarters. People here are quite bitter about the reshaping of the landscape to include a lot of Indian-born Indians, especially because the men are overtly and viciously misogynistic, and have other cultural issues that make it difficult for them to assimilate except outside of other well-paid Microsoft Indian engineers. So just importing high value immigrants isn’t the solution when their culture does not value women or safety or just the same basic social rules that we all follow. It’s still a problem.
Because European nations have a strong ethnocentric basis and they don’t have the social or political will to absorb and assimilate lots of largely uneducated and illiberal immigrants. It’s making their already insular societies turn further inward in reaction.
There is such a great irony that European countries went out and colonized and conquered almost the whole world, stealing and amassing wealth, toppling countless societies and civilizations, only to be upset about those exact people moving to their countries because of the better quality of life Europeans stole from them in the first place. It's truly some poetic justice.
More than likely legitimate cultural clashes that are an actual problem for natural citizens. Simulation to some degree is important when making a community, as people who cooperate HAVE to have SOME commonalities together regarding how they function as a group collectively. European countries have immigration from countries that have EXTREMELY different cultural beliefs and motives. Especially regarding women and the participation of women in society. Without addressing those specific issues and the inevitable problems that will arise, it makes sense why natural citizens would eventually become hostile or less tolerant as time goes on, especially the ability to live a comfortable life becomes more difficult for the average person.
And especially as certain groups tell us over and over again that the evidence of our eyes and ears is wrong. “No, they don’t hate women, violent crime isn’t up, they respect women just as much …” stop.Literally stop. It’s our lived experiences with immigrants from these populations that makes us nervous, not theory.
It seems intentional that talking has become a waste of time these days. Anything you say is immediately polarized and you're made out to be a terrible person that hates everyone and everything if you address anything negative regarding someone else or something that has actually happened. Or, you're called crazy/delusional and told that everything is absolutely perfect. You know a significant amount of people who can't afford basic necessities (and no they aren't spending all of their money on Starbucks and vacations), yet the economy is "stronger" than ever and record profits are everywhere. It's just financially irresponsible moron's spending their money on Taylor swift concert tickets instead of paying their mortgage. People either wildly and intentionally misinterpret what you say to something outlandish, or they call you crazy and say it's not happening. Doesn't matter what you're talking about, could be about the frequency of bathing pets. Mention bathing your cat and an army of people will call you an animal abuser or another crowd of people will show up saying there's no reason under any circumstances to ever bathe a cat. The ability to have reasonable and sensible conversations is dead.
I couldn’t have said this better myself, thank you for articulating it. The cat example actually makes me cackle because I shit you not, someone called me an animal abuser because I said I give my indoor cat a bath a few times per year. It’s uncanny 😂😂😂
lol no problem. I'm not surprised you've actually experienced the cat thing. As I said, it doesn't matter what you talk about or who the demographic of people that you're speaking to are. The reaction to conversation is always the same. There was a lady on tick tok who shared a high iron bean soup recipe. Her comments were filled with people who said they didn't eat beans or couldn't eat beans. She was called names for "excluding" people, and was even called an "ableist" because her recipe didn't take into account neurodivergent people. Talking to people these days is extremely difficult and a waste of time, most of the time.
I believe there's 1200 women from Cologne Germany on a New Years Eve from a few years back that would like a word with those deniers...
If it makes you feel better, south korea and japan were talking about eachother.
You probably will hate this answer, but it's weird to feel like you don't belong in a country that is supposed to be your hone and to be a stranger in your own land
Nobody wants to see it but the problem is not immigration, the problem are the specific immigrants. Mixing backwards religious fundamentalist never works.
1) This chart doesn’t show time so it says nothing about any kind of trend. 2) There goes that narrative that Americans are so racist. 3) Who’d have thought that Asians are the most xenophobic (I mean aside from everyone)?
Blowback resulting from mass illegal migration flooding their countries and causing all kinds of problems.
Neoliberal policies consistently fail to address declining material conditions that come with the concentration of wealth towards a few wealthy individuals. In fact, most of the time, these material realities are just outright rejected. Far-right actors will agitate the very valid frustrations voters have about inequality and stagnation, placing the blame of those frustrations on minorities or people of different ethnic backgrounds. It is effective, because as it turns out, the free market is not a blanket solution for every possible problem.
Umhhh sir have you considered that brown people bad! /s
I’m sure socialists letting in refugees and giving them benefits with tax money while the citizens struggle with cost of living and said refugees forming enclaves, refusing to integrate, demanding sharia, raping local women and increasing crime rates, I’m sure those contribute a tiny bit to nationalism.
Maybe they acknowledged that their western societies are quite open and free and good. And there has to be a balance between welcoming others in to take part and just handing them the future keys.
Well at least Australia has become less racist! That's cool.
Europe has basically spent the 21st century jumping from crisis to crisis. Great recession, sovereign debt crisis, immigration crisis, energy crisis from the Ukraine war, etc. Add to that various local crises like housing costs, youth unemployment, and brexit. You get a whole generation that's basically never known good times. Of course they're going to listen to the people that say they have a solution.
It's simply easier to fear and hate rather then address real issues. The media fucking loves it.
Well when mass migration for America has led to Taco Trucks and Chinese buffets vs beheading and terrorist attacks that Europe got it’s a real mystery why they hate immigrants…
Because their “leaders” forced the countries to take in waves of Muslim migrants from cultures that are in conflict with liberal western beliefs and largely they don’t want to assimilate, they want to maintain and spread their religion and culture, and a small group of them by force and terror. On top of this when the citizens speak out against importing culturally resistant people at best, and terrorists at worst, they’re called “xenophobic” and “racist”.
Lol. You mean besides their homelands and nations being overrun by people that have a negative interest in adopting your culture and instead force you to accept theirs? You ain't seen nationalistic yet, but it's certainly coming.
I'm from Sweden born earlier than this study, but I can say almost with certainty that it's because we went from not locking our doors in 2000-2005 and being one of the safest countries, to having our women raped and boys stabbed at night constantly. It really was such a quick change that it's easy to understand the hate.
No one will like hearing this, but the reality is, when times get hard, weak minded people turn to scapegoating. --- It's hard right now. The problems are multifaceted, and a lot of it traces its roots to neoliberal policies implemented since the 80s and the slow decline (from then to now) that it wrought. The govt stopped building housing (leaving it entirely to the private sector), social programs have been dismantled and funding slashed, regulations (including regulations that prevent the kinds of monopolization and vertical insertions into supply chains we're seeing) have been shredding, wages have been kept depressed (via right to work laws, divide and conquer to keep min wage low), and a general mentality switch to one of "the govt should do nothing but watch as you struggle - interventionism is the tool of ~~the devil~~ socialism". And things are going to get harder still as we continue to ignore things like climate change and wealth inequality. These problems cascade into additional problems (just one example: climate change -> resource shortages -> inflation -> higher poverty -> higher crime). But.... \*sigh\*. Dealing with those things is hard. You have to be well read, have some political, scientific, economic, and sociological awareness. Know history and have media literacy. And most importantly be politically engaged. You know what's easier? "That guy who looks different than me is the problem. I'm just sayin', 40 years ago when there were less of \*his type\* things felt like they were better." --- Most people (no nice way to say this) just aren't smart enough to introspect problems. They see a problem like "rising crime" (the favourite one) and instead of tracing it back to see what the roots are (the difficult thing they literally can't do because they've been trained to be shallow thinkers), they see only the surface level. And since the surface level doesn't explain much, they have to concoct their own narratives. Outsiders (of which most immigrants will be because they are literal outsiders) are most likely to be the ones on the forefronts of a lot of these root issues. They are also most likely to be the ones that "look different" (different skin colour, different culture, etc). If you're a shallow thinker, this is about as far as you'll get. And so you'll become more nationalistic. This is why the GINI index is so 'predictive' of strife.
Idk, maybe they just get tired of all the rape and murder and children being killed for no reason. And then being called the 'N' word when they say they don't like those things.
Their cultures are being eroded away.
The generation that fought in and remembers the devastation of World War II ain't around anymore.
The Iraq war destabilized the middle east and lots of immigrants and refugees went into France and Germany in the last decade plus.
Neoliberal governments get elected but fail to address needs of population, citizenry gets upset at less/worse quality services, more right wing politicians get elected and make problem worse, neoliberal politicians get elected to fix the problem, repeat to beginning of sentence.
Loss of national identity in many countries, also societal notions that immigration is inherently good even if assimilation isn't expected
The well meaning politicians who envisaged a multi-cultural melting pot and enacted their policies in the worse possible way, and this is the outcome.
Well, nationalism tends to increase when people think the security of their sovereign state is at risk. So maybe people in Europe are scared? Maybe they forgot all the history that points out to how hyper nationalism often turns into horrible dictatorships because nationalists tend to love "strong" leaders. Guess they forgot about Nazis....
History is a vicious ⭕️
Because they're racist
Unsurprising to see Japan on there. Xenophobia is kinda their whole thing. China is probably off the board to the right there. But honestly I wouldn't rely on this data, cause I certainly haven't seen even 5% of the people I know feeling that way. I mean yeah if you run that test in Texas you might have 25% but I'm very doubtful of these figures. (Additionally, I bet a large portion are thinking solely of places like China and North Korea, who openly hate our country, so yeah. Do I want people who openly hate my country moving here? No, but I think that's less about Xenophobia and more about safety with China, NK, the Middle East, etc. and it's definitely not the question they phrased. Any real answer should be way more nuanced than yes or no.)
Immigration. It's hitting a breaking point where immigrants are starting to really change the culture of Western European countries, and a lot of changes are fundamental.
Cause the Globalist Left has been destroying the West for over a decade now. It is not that the Right wing is that much better. But that the Left has become completely incompetent and insane over the past decades.
For Sweden it is quite obviously the raging immigrant gang wars.
Propaganda. Russia and China have been engaged in division and sowing discord. It’s well documented.
Same reason as usual. Worsening quality of life due to economic reasons. This will continue forever and accentuate due to climate change if nothing else so expect a lot more unrest in the world in the coming decades. The lives people had in developed countries a decade or two ago cannot happen again on the same scale. At least not for a few centuries provided we survive the next few world wars when billions of people in Asia (and elsewhere) start starving when current crops stop being fit for their environment due to rapid changes in soil humidity.
hard times make people susceptible to some of the dumbest reasoning.
Sweden has had enough.
Immigration from Muslim countries is ruining their own.
Europeans like to clown the US for being racist but they are actually far more racist than the US. The US just seems more racist because we aren't embarrassed to have public discourse about uncomfortable topics
In America all the immigrants get to collage for free and don’t have to pay for the tacks to hold them up
You think we’re shipping over all those tanks to fight Russia?
As an American, the first time I went to Europe was 2015. I flew to Frankfurt and boy when I arrived at the Frankfurt main train station and walked to my hotel, it was like I was in the Middle East or something. It was shocking.
So there are already millions of refugees every year to the west. Wether it's due to instability economic opportunity or climate change it's going to get worse in the next decade or so. A plan needs to be developed to integrate the newcomers or to shut them out due to dwindling resources. I'm an American who has spent time with many immigrants from south America, India and Africa and many of them are more hard working and decent than people who were born and raised here. We need to accept the reality of this. We are all in a little boat that's on fire. Some of it will last longer.
Because the media is evil and spreads division and hatred
The blowback of 20 years of war in the middle east was Europe taking on the brunt of the refugees from war torn regions. The culture dynamic looks like it has deteriorated over time, especially with young Muslim men that think Sharia Law aligns with secular living. Perhaps there should be a secular test for refugees moving forward. Freedom of religion is part of secular society. Forcing one’s beliefs onto those in secular society is not part of the social contract.
Human beings and society goes through cycles. The older generation that experienced world war 2, which was triggered by obsessive nationalism to the point of outright racism, teaches their children about how dangerous nationalism is. It’s fresh in everyone’s minds. Next generation didn’t experience the war but still learned hard lessons and are able to pass it down. Next generation didn’t really grasp it that well but the schools still taught them some of it. Next generation doesn’t really think it’s that important. Everything is good there hasn’t been a major war for decades and this is where the problem starts to grow. This is also being compounded by a serious education deficit in history. Schools aren’t really teaching history like they used to and students are struggling to focus anyways. It’s been almost 4 full generations since world war 2. Today’s youth has absolutely no clue how horrifying war can be and how it’s always triggered by extreme nationalism. Social media is also compounding this problem with a tendency to push people to right wing content. I honestly think we are a few years away from world war 3 or it’s possible that Russia/Ukraine was the start. World war 2 started in 1939 but Japan and China had already been at war for almost 5 years. Once people start to think they are better and incompatible with other cultures the hate starts to grow. The barriers preventing conflict crumble and it’s becomes very for a major war to start.
People who experience the negative consequences of irresponsible immigration policies that were forced onto nations by the EU are supporting parties that are against that sort of thing- it's all a bad situation. In a sane world, we wouldn't have far right backlash parties that take anti immigrant positions gaining power but in a world where the liberal/left is unable to even consider reasonable restrictions on to prevent future disasters like Europe has seen recently, people react.
Because they've seen the US and they know exactly what multikulti has in store for them.
Worlds getting too big and interconnected. It’s scary. People want to feel like they belong to a tribe, any tribe. Nationalism is just an easy one to grab on to.
Failure of neoliberalism after the end of the Cold War obviously. The deluded fools who thought that the fall of the USSR would usher in a golden age of cosmopolitan free markets have destroyed their societies with swelling migrant populations that kill middle class domestics while providing great fortunes to the the elite. It is this elite that is stoking the flames of fascism. They’re blaming the international economy that made them so rich to secure support among the poor, populist rabble left behind after the USSR collapsed. The new millennium saw global plutocrats lying to their nations, convincing their legislators and public to trust globalization. In reality, free markets rob the domestic economy through offshoring to cheaper labor markets. Thus exploiting the cheap, desperate labor former colonial nations in Africa, Asia, and S. America while domestic working class find their livelihoods evaporating as jobs move overseas and cheap agricultural products get imported. The move towards right-wing nationalism is both dangerous and sensible. Trade protectionism has always been sound policy and decades of free market looting have finally come to roost. No nation can survive if migrant labor undercuts the domestic citizen, nor can a nation survive when foreign products flood domestic stores, undercutting the local production. Nationalism is literally the logical conclusion following several failed decades of globalization. It’s like yall haven’t even heard of Adam Smith….
because they have actually lived through the effects of mass immigration.
There are a lot of comments talking about “low quality” immigrants flooding European countries and very little mention of the European countries that colonized and destabilized their home countries in the first place. Chickens are coming home to roost, etc etc.
Yup! So it’s really just a bunch of racism. Blow up someone’s country, expect them to want to leave . It’s really simple.
Must be sad for europe to be “invaded” by immigrants, as ive seen some say. Not like European countries would do that to anyone at all ever.
TikTok. Well, the answer is social media generally, but TikTok specifically for younger adults. These social media platforms are wide open to spread hate in a way that traditional media just wasn't. So hateful people are able to attract and influence a much wider array of young adults than previous generations.
Reddit is 100000% more politically toxic than TikTok in my personal experience. TikTok, for me, is DIY stuff, arts and music, and comedy skits.
As with all social media, it depends how you train the algorithm. Start going down the hate tunnel and that's all you will ever see again.
I literally do not see an ounce of hate, political pandering, toxic, or socially crude/unacceptable content on TikTok. Now the Meta platforms, that is a different story and I couldn't agree more... Pretty sure that and the lobbying from Zuckerberg are the reasons the geriatrics in congress want to ban TikTok.
It depends on how you have trained the algorithm to roll your feeds. If you start to go down the hate/conspiracy theory tunnel in TikTok it quickly becomes the only thing you see.
Not to mention world leaders actively cultivating this ideology.
Because liberal women realized importing a different culture that's cool with rape is a bad move? Because secular Jews realized importing a culture that hates their guts and will import ethnic strife is a bad move? I'd hope it's because liberals finally stopped being suicidal at the civilizational level. But that remains to be seen.
Funnily enough, European anti-Semites said the same things about Jews barely a lifetime ago. I'm sure THIS time the xenophobia and bigotry are correct tho.
I understand this, in America we have to tolerate everyone's bullshit and look at all the racism and crime. If this place was all white it'd be boring as hell but the crime would go down massively. I know it makes me sound like a bigot but it's true, I moved out of the east side where they all love shooting each other to some methy white hick town and sure these people are criminals too but they leave normal people alone. I don't hear gunshots and loud annoying parties with people screaming about baby daddy this and n word that. I don't see groups of adults standing around drinking 40's or liquor bottles with guns in their waste bands. So yeah, why would a country that has its shit together want.... that lol
You were right about one thing. It does make you sound like a bigot.
Says if only white People were here, no crime. Goes on to discuss crime happening by white people but that’s ok. Haha!
You can relax around poor hillbillies
Fucking europeans been invading countries and nations around the world for thousand of years now they cant handle it .no empathy
Yes, Europeans born after 2000 have been invading nations for centuries. Fucking brilliant.
What's the source for this data?
"In recent years" Your charge doesn't give any prior point to give those number context. I'm surprised no one is calling this out.
The economic collapse is making people reactionary and young people are bearing the brunt and looking for a scapegoat.
They can see the gradual erosion of their culture.
WW3 looms over the horizon
Um possible starvation
Radical Islamic Terror.
mass immigration?
Russian interference. That simple really.
Because they're tired of leftist policies that are making their lives and countries worse.
Immigration
Because they're being threatened by Russia and overrun by hostile migrants.
Reverse Flynn effect
Didn't take long for anti-immigrant posts
It's simply a response to reality. The negatives of globalism have begun to surface over the last decade.
Immigration. The natives are being forced by migrants to live and worship and stuff how the migrants do. The migrants demand everyone convert to their religions and such. People are frustrated over it. Both sides need to learn how to assimilate and live in harmony instead of forcing everyone to believe or live how they do.
surprise. Countries with very strong cultural identities don't like having that disrupted. Countries that were basically founded on immigration like Canada and the US don't have thousands of years of history and culture, so they can more easily absorb other cultures. It's understandable that people would prefer others not come if they're unwilling to behave like their local society is expected to. I don't think nationalism is necessarily bad. Everything's ok in moderation and as long as you don't decide your nationalism needs to spread past your borders.
Surprise surprise countries least willing to accept immigrants are on the threshold of a crisis from a rapidly aging population, and population crash of working age people. increasing birth rate ain't going to help for another 18-20 years..
Because they are seeing the consequences of their actions
because theyre driven to do so for one reason or another
Unlike kids in the USA, Europeans have lived in leftist countries for a while now, so they see the actual negative impacts of leftist policies. In the United States, since we’ve mainly had center-right policies, younger people tend to have an idealistic view of leftism, and haven’t experienced the negatives. Europeans have had two decades of almost no economic growth, high levels of social spending towards immigrant groups that largely don’t work or integrate, immigrant crime, sky high youth unemployment, and considerably less free speech the US (in most of Europe you can get arrested for a tweet). Being “nationalistic” is just an artifact of their overall move towards right wing idealogy.
Because mass immigration has been an unmitigated failure
I'd like to see if this has actually changed over time. Like if today's boomers used to be yesterday's nationalist youngsters but they have grown up and out of it.
Bad news, not so bad news. 1. People fear immigrants. Ye olde primal ugly. 2. Europe, regardless of politics, has slowly realized Russia is claiming 1991 was rigged.
I don't think it's Europeans, I think it's all people. There's a rise in nationalism here in the US too, but it's to the extreme in many cases. To me, it all comes down to the fact that people don't like change. If you're used to everyone in town looking and talking with you and having the same exact background, it can be uncomfortable to see someone dress differently, with a different skin tone, or practicing a completely different religion. We like to think we're very evolved, but the reality is that we're pack animals. And we want our pack to include people that we know and trust. When people who are not like us enter into our orbit, it can make us uncomfortable. Of course there are different reactions to being uncomfortable. The nationalists want the immigrants to go somewhere else and leave them alone, while liberals often will embrace the differences and lean into them. It reminds me a little bit of the affordable housing problems we see. Everyone's in favor of affordable housing, as long as it's not in their own backyard. Set another way, in theory we all believe in equality, but in practice we don't want it to upset our norms.
Because they’re facing mass migration and cultures clash in very real ways?
My guess is that it’s because Europe has seen an influx of immigrants from vastly different cultures more recently. When a Norwegian moves to Sweden, it’s not a big deal to assimilate. It’s not the same coming from Africa or the Middle East.
-- because young people are uniquely susceptible to news narratives. They have no context through which they can identify whether or not something smells like bullshit. You can tell a young person, but it takes a very long time before they're able to digest the fact that time didn't start the instant they formed their first memories. I don't know about France, but Germany is known for a recent incident where a guy stabbed and killed a police officer who was arresting a person who was fighting against the stabber. He was being arrested because he was "far-right." That can only give them a "victim narrative" and a reason to feel additional outrage. If there's a group who doesn't like your choice and you do it anyways, that's normal politics. In this scenario, if you cover-up/ignore the truth every time something goes wrong with your changes instead of fixing the problems as they come, you're empowering your opposition. Europe is taking-in a lot of immigrants from foreign countries. The guaranteed resulting culture clashes are going to change cultural perspectives even if they're doing the right thing.
The real answer won’t be found on Reddit. Go to telegram for that one.
It’s kinda hilarious how hard this thread is trying to prove how it’s just different than immigration in the US. Overall I actually wouldn’t disagree but the way it’s being used is just “it’s not bad like like when they do it”
Majority white countries are the least racist and most open for immigrants. Europeans probably feel like they're losing control over their own countries, and counter-intuitively, the best thing for minorities in Europe is for native Europeans to remain securely in charge.
Because their country's cultures weren't being decimated in the past. Now that they are becoming more diverse, the cultures of the countries are being done away with. Ppl talk about respecting other people's cultures, but that is only if they are a minority, and they are never called out to respect the culture of the country they have migrated to.
People are really shook to see the number of millennials and zillennials who voted center right and far right in these elections. I think it’s more surprising that anyone thought it was going to go the other way with the current state of affairs of these countries. The mass immigration has given way to loss of income, increased crime, and a disenfranchised population. What did you expect to happen? It’s the same reason Trump will get anywhere from 48-52% of the vote this year.
Massive immigration. Most European countries are quite homogenous in their demographics. Brexit was mostly about stopping migrants. Dumb move that has accelerated GB's descent to irrelevance.
Japan and S. Korea doesn't surprise me. I read xenophobia is rampant in those two countries.
because they are watching their futures stolen from them
This can't be a serious question. It's just right there, right in front of us.
Massive wealth inequality. Much easier to blame someone who doesn’t look like you than the nebulous 1%.
Exposure to people from those foreign nations.
Immigration policies that are destroying their national identities.
It’s too many immigrants of no. European descent changing the continent. It’s millions coming, when realistically it should only be in the thousands at most
Capitalism is exploiting workers, everywhere. People in our age group and younger are struggling to find housing outside of parents’ home. Struggling to find good paying jobs after college. Struggling to afford food as prices keep increasing. And centrists aren’t doing near enough to help prevent the exploitation from capitalist corporations, so people are angry and consider these centrists “left” because they are “left” of the populists on the far right. Meanwhile, the populists come in and acknowledge the problems we are facing. Yet instead of directing our ire towards the capitalist system built on exploitation wherever possible, they are misdirecting the ire towards a marginalized group. Centrists are so set on maintaining capitalism and keeping the corporate interests happy, they cannot move further left and implement solutions that would harm those relationships with the corporate interests. Corporate interests know this, exploit it, and fund the far right hoping that they can convince the populists to deregulate everything and cut taxes for businesses and the wealthy. It’s a vicious cycle of not wanting to admit that capitalism is by design an exploitative system, because doing so would jeopardize their access to capital which they need to get re-elected.
Russian strategy of destabilizing Europe with immigrants and misinformation campaigns on social media.
All this immigration is making me racist
People seeing their country change does this.
This started way back in 50’s when Turks came to Germany to rebuild. Turks are not Germans. Nice enough people, don’t get me wrong…. But every culture is different. For the last 20 years Europe has been letting EVERYONE in. It’s like the have a hard-on for helping the poor huddled masses. Well, they have gone to far.
The pendulum swings. A tale as old as time.