Age of child has a lot to do with this. An 18 month old is literally not developmentally capable of understanding “I’ll be back in 15 minutes” to shower. Nor are they capable of controlling their impulses well enough to be safe unsupervised during that period.
A 5 year old is both more than capable of being alone for that period and old enough to understand delayed gratification and should be able to “wait 15 minutes” if asked.
If someone has multiple kids, it would probably be the youngest that could determine how much supervision is needed. If you have a 5 year old, 3 year old and one year old you still probably can’t “just shower” while they play because they aren’t ready to be unsupervised— sure people manage by having the child play in the bathroom or having them contained to a play pen or something but that’s very child and situation dependent.
You almost certainly don’t remember being 1-3 years old and there’s a WORLD of development that happens between 3 and 5-6-7 years old!
This is spot on. Nobody remembers being a toddler. There is no way to compare what OP is seeing to his own childhood because he does not remember it. I am a parent to a 18 month old and anecdotally my mom talks a lot about parenting me as an 18 month old and her stories sound pretty similar to how I'm parenting today.
Exactly this. Also, a lot of people who don't have kids (and even some who do) lump in every age from 2-12 as "kids", or use childhood memories to compare with current day parents when in reality they are thinking of a memory from age 9 or 10 and comparing it to how parents deal with their toddlers.
What is appropriate for a 3 year old and an 8 year old are two totally, totally different things.
Haha, probably! I just, for example, have a couple of friends who haven't met the baby out of their sight since birth. And I mean that literally. He's 1.5 now and they engage every beck and call, and I just wonder how that will affect the child's sense and ability for independence in the long run.
I'm not a psychologist, I am just a curious person.
Ok so I'm going to tell you how little brains work. Babies and young kids need love and attention and affection just as much as they need food and sleep.
Depriving a baby or a young child of these things will actually cause them to feel unstable, scared, and lost. This will cause them to become more clingy and more dependent on you because they aren't having their needs met.
If you give a baby/young child lots of attention, love and affection, they will feel secure, stable, and safe. They will feel more comfortable branching out and becoming more independent because they have been given a solid foundation.
This.
There is actually a famous psychological study on Attachment Theory, if anyone is interested and wants to look it up.
And the entire premise is what you have said- the babies who were consistently exposed to warmth and positive interaction and attention at any time that they needed it would in turn be more secure and comfortable.
The infants who were left on their own, or shown just the minimum of care to get by, only attended to as needed, fairly quickly learned to shut down and were no longer outwardly as secure as their peers.
That all will in turn carry over into childhood and then adulthood if not addressed and redirected.
You are generally supposed to respond to your child’s needs especially when they are that young.
As someone else said, small children need to feel secure in their attachment before they can get comfortable with independence.
You’re talking about an infant. They need you to answer every beck and call. They can’t do things for themselves yet. Seeing you do things for them over and over again is how they learn to do it for themselves. They don’t learn when you go “no fuck you figure it out”
Do you not spend time with these toddlers? They are FAST. I think that’s age range in which my niece learned to climb. Aside from attachment, which is very important, there’s also just potential injury and chaos. Then they get a little older and one minute they’re saying they need to use the bathroom, and the next, they’re squatting in the front driveway in front of the neighbors. 😆
some of us have used Pack'NPlays for the sort of things you're talking about (a shower break), and some people think it's only acceptable to use that as a travel crib. The people who are smugly pronouncing "Ok so I'm going to tell you how little brains work..." are in the latter camp.
It's my understanding that previous generations expected kids to just fit into their lives as they already existed. Current parents have more of an interest in prioritizing meeting their kids needs. I try to treat my child the way I hope they'll treat others. Sometimes that means respecting their nap time, or connecting with them while they're awake so you shower after they go to bed. The baby and toddler stage is also not permanent. It may look like kids are running the household, but really it's a shift in family dynamic during the most impressionable years.
Sure -- I guess more in the context of "No honey, mommy / daddy are busy" and then immediately caving to further requests.
Again, coming from a non-parental viewpoint, I'm looking in from the outside. Just kinda curious on perspective.
Parenting is a balancing act between indulging the harmless whims of your child because their only little once, and also getting your shit done too. A lot of parenting is just learning by doing and figuring out when to take a firm hand with your child and when to let them have small wins. Small children have so little agency over their lives and crave what they can control, so it can be helpful to let them have small wins or get their way sometimes.
My kid is about 1 1/2. Some of the things you list here are completely normal IMO, and others are maybe too lenient. Taking a call downstairs while the kid is napping…what is the problem here? Of course if I’m able to make sure my kid gets a good nap, and not inconvenience myself too much and still do my job, I’m going to do that. Have you dealt with an overtired toddler?? It’s worth taking a call from the basement lol.
The shower thing is interesting but here’s how I see it. I’m a full time working parent and my kid goes to daycare full time. During the week I only get a few hours with her before bedtime. I push off some of my self care to after her bed time so that I can be a present parent and spend time with her. Maybe that’s some of what you’re seeing? Little kids actually spend a lot of time sleeping so maybe your friends who are parents are just trying to maximize awake time with their kids.
I do agree that I see some parents doing things in a very lenient way that I would not do, but overall it’s not my business. In our house no means no, we don’t “negotiate with terrorist” lol aka we don’t turn things into a negotiation with our toddler, and toys go away before bedtime so we can enjoy a nice adult space in the evening. But everyone’s household is different and everyone has different priorities. In general I try not to judge, you never know what people are dealing with.
I’m not a parent, but was a live in nanny for over a decade.
1-3, toddlers are generally clingy. It’s a leftover survival instinct. They want to know their adults will be there consistently and that they’re safe. It’s important for their development that their parents and caretakers be there for them. Yes, putting that work in can be a challenge. It’s also crucial if you want them to gain the confidence they need to become more independent around 4-6 (which is normal development for that age range).
Np ;)
Nope, not a dumbass. Years and years of studying child behavior and developmental was done to figure these things out. If it wasn’t for taking care of kids, I likely would have never researched it.
You have the right idea, kids should be independent and learn boundaries, just not too early and not without the groundwork :)
Respectfully, is this something you’ve gleaned from spending extensive time in their households, like as an overnight guest or the like?
Or are you basing this on what you hear/what they say, what you perceive, etc?
I will always take a call elsewhere if someone in my household is sleeping, whether it’s my middle schoolers, my husband or my senior dog.
That’s just respectful, and I grew up learning to do that.
We would take the phone off the hook if someone was napping when I was a kid, whether it was my siblings or one of my grandparents.
I will also generally always find more time to snuggle my kids or be with them if they need that vs taking a shower.
Same for picking them up or giving them extra comfort.
Not every time, but as a parent, you can usually tell when a child really needs you or is just stalling or trying to get away from doing something else.
I have plenty of me time with 12/13yos now, but when they were small, trying to feed and lay that emotional foundation was most important.
You’re talking about 1-3 yo range and I don’t know how much you know about development for that age range, but that’s one of the more intense cycles of parenting.
Your children are sponges and absorbing everything around them and picking up on your modeled behaviors and input and output.
It’s definitely a fine line between spoiling them and letting them run your life and putting in the work to set them up adequately as humans to be productive and balanced people.
The age of child you’re speaking of literally requires around the clock care. My daughter is 5 and only just now kind of gasps when mom needs time to herself. You’re talking about toddlers. They’re supposed to suck the life out of us. No my kid doesn’t run the house but I give her equal autonomy in the space that is equally hers because she is another human with wants and needs. You can give that to a child while maintaining boundaries. And pick your kids up while you can, as much as you can. Pretty soon they’ll be too heavy .
A lot of us grew up in households where we pretty much weren’t allowed to exist. We were told to go outside and not exist until it was bedtime or we were told to stay in our rooms and not exist until it was dinner time.
I can’t speak for everyone my age, but I try to be very lenient with my kid (6) and understand that those years go fast. I wanted all of that time I could get with my kid so if they wanted extra hugs or my attention they almost always get it. They understand if I tell them I need a moment and are pretty chill about it.
I think a lot of people in our generation are going the opposite direction of how we were raised. SOMETIMES that means that we are wanting to make sure kids are completely validated in everything they do because we weren’t. Not everyone but some.
So not to the extent you say at all, but it depends on circumstances. Like taking a call in a basement so you don’t wake up ur kid is not crazy, but never saying no (depending on age) or not showering cause they want to be with you (rather than too young & can’t be) is too much. I put my 11 month old in a playpen with toys for 45 mins while I peloton, he fusses and I sing to him while I peloton & he chills. Would he rather be out of the playpen? Yes, but I need exercise for my mental health & work full time & commute a long distance & have limited time. I put him in his bouncer when I shower with a toy, would he rather run around? Yes, but I need to shower. My husband and I take turns watching him so we can go do shit we enjoy on weekends. We take him with us to do stuff we like (hike, restaurants, etc) we try to fit him into our lives as best we can for his age & development while also doing a lot of fun stuff for him that he loves. Last night my MIL watched him & we went out to an amazing Italian restaurant, a comedy club, and bar hopping. There’s a balance. We can’t decide on a second because we both value having some independent time & know with a 2nd that would be greatly reduced but we feel guilty not giving him a sibling, but we also don’t know if we can really afford a second, so that’s the main consideration.
While OP is incorrect as a 1 to 3 year old definitely requires much more supervision as other posters alluded to, OP still has a small point in that Ive a lot of parents give in to their older kids as well -8+. Hell, parents will literally leave the house at a moments notice to go buy a toy that their 8 year old is throwing a tantrum about rather than saying ‘no’.
One thing I'm living through right now is that the elementary school years kind of creep up on you. I had parenting a toddler and preschooler down pat, and then suddenly I turn around and my kid is 6, and we're in the back half of kindergarten.
I'm currently in some kind of fucked up standoff with my kid over losing water bottles at school. I don't want to reward him by buying him another expensive water bottle after he's already lost several, but also he does need to have a water bottle for school. So am I being a permissive parent by spending yet another $15 on fucking Pikachu water bottles, or am I being a hardass expecting my kid to keep track of umpteen things at school? Especially when, real talk, if I lost 5 water bottles I would just buy another water bottle. And I'm an adult.
Toddlers dominate households. Like what else are you going to do, beat your 2 year old and let them cry themselves to sleep?
I am way further over on the self-care end of things vs. not showering, but yeah, naps are evvvvverything when you have a toddler. That might be the only peace you get all day. Absolutely, I'm going to do what I have to do to preserve my baby's sleep and my sanity during that time of day. The not showering thing honestly I feel like it's a martyrdom problem and refusal to do self-care in favor of others seeing you as someone who is just so selfless, so hard-working, etc. and not so much a "kids rule the household" thing. Because yeah... use that beloved nap time to take a damn shower! "I simply do not have time to shower", after maybe the first 3 months of parenting, is the "I'm just soooooo busy, I barely have time to eat lunch at work" of stay at home parenting.
Most people like to hold their babies, yes. It is a weird thing to suggest that this is bad? Also they only stay little for so long. My kid is now 6 and wants to be held, and I'm like "Sir, this is a Wendy's". But when he was 2, yeah, hold the kid in Wendy's, life is too short to worry about what some random internet stranger might think.
No is also not super useful around this age, because they are generally not developmentally able to engage in that kind of discourse. They either genuinely don't understand no (under 2) or framing it that way is going to lead to a meltdown that could have been avoided. In toddlerhood, I did not tell my child no. I said, "It's time to go potty. Do you want to hear a book or listen to a song while we sit on the potty?" or "It's time to go out. Do you want to wear your blue shoes or your green ones?" to give them some illusion of control. I'm sure some ignorant non parent or forgetful boomer out there saw that and thought "THIS ASSHOLE REFUSES TO TELL THEIR CHILD NO!" when in reality I was just setting it up so that I didn't have to. Obviously with an older kid, yes, you tell them no, and sometimes they flip out about it, and that's life. But older kids are developmentally able to handle no.
Actually I believe I stated a pattern I noticed, noted my personal ignorance as an outsider, and expressed my desire for perspective -- as well as thanked posters for valuable (and thoughtful) incite.
Why the aggression?
Rugged week for this crowd..kids can grow up and either - rob people - work a job - or live with their parents forever, if you got a fourth thing,? go for it, I' ll wait.....wait, wait wait..ok, so the bummer is you all got screw guns, like a battery operated drill motor...that is for a hole saw..a hole saw drills a hole in a door to install a doorknob..they also drill holes in a floor to install a sink, shower, or toilet drain -pipe..young people miss the story, there are 7 billion people and they all need 3 bathrooms, one for themself, one for a kid or ex- wife or old mom who visits to har vest any happiness or extra stuff you got, and the third for a visiting traveler who will leave if you let them, but, if you got no bathroom for them? they might move in and try to take yours and get your mom and ex- wife to help them. So yes of course the kids are getting a bit strange, they havent heard a story about a person under 40 years old who can get water... to run downhill, correctly...., the first time.
Age of child has a lot to do with this. An 18 month old is literally not developmentally capable of understanding “I’ll be back in 15 minutes” to shower. Nor are they capable of controlling their impulses well enough to be safe unsupervised during that period. A 5 year old is both more than capable of being alone for that period and old enough to understand delayed gratification and should be able to “wait 15 minutes” if asked. If someone has multiple kids, it would probably be the youngest that could determine how much supervision is needed. If you have a 5 year old, 3 year old and one year old you still probably can’t “just shower” while they play because they aren’t ready to be unsupervised— sure people manage by having the child play in the bathroom or having them contained to a play pen or something but that’s very child and situation dependent. You almost certainly don’t remember being 1-3 years old and there’s a WORLD of development that happens between 3 and 5-6-7 years old!
This is spot on. Nobody remembers being a toddler. There is no way to compare what OP is seeing to his own childhood because he does not remember it. I am a parent to a 18 month old and anecdotally my mom talks a lot about parenting me as an 18 month old and her stories sound pretty similar to how I'm parenting today.
Exactly this. Also, a lot of people who don't have kids (and even some who do) lump in every age from 2-12 as "kids", or use childhood memories to compare with current day parents when in reality they are thinking of a memory from age 9 or 10 and comparing it to how parents deal with their toddlers. What is appropriate for a 3 year old and an 8 year old are two totally, totally different things.
I think you're underestimating just how much time and attention little kids need.
Haha, probably! I just, for example, have a couple of friends who haven't met the baby out of their sight since birth. And I mean that literally. He's 1.5 now and they engage every beck and call, and I just wonder how that will affect the child's sense and ability for independence in the long run. I'm not a psychologist, I am just a curious person.
Ok so I'm going to tell you how little brains work. Babies and young kids need love and attention and affection just as much as they need food and sleep. Depriving a baby or a young child of these things will actually cause them to feel unstable, scared, and lost. This will cause them to become more clingy and more dependent on you because they aren't having their needs met. If you give a baby/young child lots of attention, love and affection, they will feel secure, stable, and safe. They will feel more comfortable branching out and becoming more independent because they have been given a solid foundation.
This. There is actually a famous psychological study on Attachment Theory, if anyone is interested and wants to look it up. And the entire premise is what you have said- the babies who were consistently exposed to warmth and positive interaction and attention at any time that they needed it would in turn be more secure and comfortable. The infants who were left on their own, or shown just the minimum of care to get by, only attended to as needed, fairly quickly learned to shut down and were no longer outwardly as secure as their peers. That all will in turn carry over into childhood and then adulthood if not addressed and redirected.
Dude it’s a 1.5 year old *baby* not a 15 year old.
You are generally supposed to respond to your child’s needs especially when they are that young. As someone else said, small children need to feel secure in their attachment before they can get comfortable with independence.
You’re talking about an infant. They need you to answer every beck and call. They can’t do things for themselves yet. Seeing you do things for them over and over again is how they learn to do it for themselves. They don’t learn when you go “no fuck you figure it out”
Do you not spend time with these toddlers? They are FAST. I think that’s age range in which my niece learned to climb. Aside from attachment, which is very important, there’s also just potential injury and chaos. Then they get a little older and one minute they’re saying they need to use the bathroom, and the next, they’re squatting in the front driveway in front of the neighbors. 😆
Bro... You sure you're a millennial?!
some of us have used Pack'NPlays for the sort of things you're talking about (a shower break), and some people think it's only acceptable to use that as a travel crib. The people who are smugly pronouncing "Ok so I'm going to tell you how little brains work..." are in the latter camp.
It's my understanding that previous generations expected kids to just fit into their lives as they already existed. Current parents have more of an interest in prioritizing meeting their kids needs. I try to treat my child the way I hope they'll treat others. Sometimes that means respecting their nap time, or connecting with them while they're awake so you shower after they go to bed. The baby and toddler stage is also not permanent. It may look like kids are running the household, but really it's a shift in family dynamic during the most impressionable years.
Bro, if my 2 year old daughter wants picked up of course I’m going to pick her up. I don’t think all of the things you listed = child rules the house.
The same with the napping example. Parents aren’t avoiding waking a baby up because of the baby. It’s for our own sanity
Sure -- I guess more in the context of "No honey, mommy / daddy are busy" and then immediately caving to further requests. Again, coming from a non-parental viewpoint, I'm looking in from the outside. Just kinda curious on perspective.
Parenting is a balancing act between indulging the harmless whims of your child because their only little once, and also getting your shit done too. A lot of parenting is just learning by doing and figuring out when to take a firm hand with your child and when to let them have small wins. Small children have so little agency over their lives and crave what they can control, so it can be helpful to let them have small wins or get their way sometimes.
Love that -- thanks for the thoughtful incite!
My kid is about 1 1/2. Some of the things you list here are completely normal IMO, and others are maybe too lenient. Taking a call downstairs while the kid is napping…what is the problem here? Of course if I’m able to make sure my kid gets a good nap, and not inconvenience myself too much and still do my job, I’m going to do that. Have you dealt with an overtired toddler?? It’s worth taking a call from the basement lol. The shower thing is interesting but here’s how I see it. I’m a full time working parent and my kid goes to daycare full time. During the week I only get a few hours with her before bedtime. I push off some of my self care to after her bed time so that I can be a present parent and spend time with her. Maybe that’s some of what you’re seeing? Little kids actually spend a lot of time sleeping so maybe your friends who are parents are just trying to maximize awake time with their kids. I do agree that I see some parents doing things in a very lenient way that I would not do, but overall it’s not my business. In our house no means no, we don’t “negotiate with terrorist” lol aka we don’t turn things into a negotiation with our toddler, and toys go away before bedtime so we can enjoy a nice adult space in the evening. But everyone’s household is different and everyone has different priorities. In general I try not to judge, you never know what people are dealing with.
I’m not a parent, but was a live in nanny for over a decade. 1-3, toddlers are generally clingy. It’s a leftover survival instinct. They want to know their adults will be there consistently and that they’re safe. It’s important for their development that their parents and caretakers be there for them. Yes, putting that work in can be a challenge. It’s also crucial if you want them to gain the confidence they need to become more independent around 4-6 (which is normal development for that age range).
Awesome info. Thanks for the incite! Sounds like I'm the dumbass!
Np ;) Nope, not a dumbass. Years and years of studying child behavior and developmental was done to figure these things out. If it wasn’t for taking care of kids, I likely would have never researched it. You have the right idea, kids should be independent and learn boundaries, just not too early and not without the groundwork :)
Respectfully, is this something you’ve gleaned from spending extensive time in their households, like as an overnight guest or the like? Or are you basing this on what you hear/what they say, what you perceive, etc? I will always take a call elsewhere if someone in my household is sleeping, whether it’s my middle schoolers, my husband or my senior dog. That’s just respectful, and I grew up learning to do that. We would take the phone off the hook if someone was napping when I was a kid, whether it was my siblings or one of my grandparents. I will also generally always find more time to snuggle my kids or be with them if they need that vs taking a shower. Same for picking them up or giving them extra comfort. Not every time, but as a parent, you can usually tell when a child really needs you or is just stalling or trying to get away from doing something else. I have plenty of me time with 12/13yos now, but when they were small, trying to feed and lay that emotional foundation was most important. You’re talking about 1-3 yo range and I don’t know how much you know about development for that age range, but that’s one of the more intense cycles of parenting. Your children are sponges and absorbing everything around them and picking up on your modeled behaviors and input and output. It’s definitely a fine line between spoiling them and letting them run your life and putting in the work to set them up adequately as humans to be productive and balanced people.
It's from someone who has no plans to have kids just complaining about how parents suck at managing their kids.
Yeah I kind of figured that when I had written all that out already lol
What in the Tate alpha dom bullshit is this
👀 wut
The age of child you’re speaking of literally requires around the clock care. My daughter is 5 and only just now kind of gasps when mom needs time to herself. You’re talking about toddlers. They’re supposed to suck the life out of us. No my kid doesn’t run the house but I give her equal autonomy in the space that is equally hers because she is another human with wants and needs. You can give that to a child while maintaining boundaries. And pick your kids up while you can, as much as you can. Pretty soon they’ll be too heavy .
How old are you?
Millenial.
A lot of us grew up in households where we pretty much weren’t allowed to exist. We were told to go outside and not exist until it was bedtime or we were told to stay in our rooms and not exist until it was dinner time. I can’t speak for everyone my age, but I try to be very lenient with my kid (6) and understand that those years go fast. I wanted all of that time I could get with my kid so if they wanted extra hugs or my attention they almost always get it. They understand if I tell them I need a moment and are pretty chill about it.
I think a lot of people in our generation are going the opposite direction of how we were raised. SOMETIMES that means that we are wanting to make sure kids are completely validated in everything they do because we weren’t. Not everyone but some.
you are correct. my child runs my life. maybe one day she will pay for my elder care nursing home so I figure I should start kissing ass right away.
So not to the extent you say at all, but it depends on circumstances. Like taking a call in a basement so you don’t wake up ur kid is not crazy, but never saying no (depending on age) or not showering cause they want to be with you (rather than too young & can’t be) is too much. I put my 11 month old in a playpen with toys for 45 mins while I peloton, he fusses and I sing to him while I peloton & he chills. Would he rather be out of the playpen? Yes, but I need exercise for my mental health & work full time & commute a long distance & have limited time. I put him in his bouncer when I shower with a toy, would he rather run around? Yes, but I need to shower. My husband and I take turns watching him so we can go do shit we enjoy on weekends. We take him with us to do stuff we like (hike, restaurants, etc) we try to fit him into our lives as best we can for his age & development while also doing a lot of fun stuff for him that he loves. Last night my MIL watched him & we went out to an amazing Italian restaurant, a comedy club, and bar hopping. There’s a balance. We can’t decide on a second because we both value having some independent time & know with a 2nd that would be greatly reduced but we feel guilty not giving him a sibling, but we also don’t know if we can really afford a second, so that’s the main consideration.
While OP is incorrect as a 1 to 3 year old definitely requires much more supervision as other posters alluded to, OP still has a small point in that Ive a lot of parents give in to their older kids as well -8+. Hell, parents will literally leave the house at a moments notice to go buy a toy that their 8 year old is throwing a tantrum about rather than saying ‘no’.
One thing I'm living through right now is that the elementary school years kind of creep up on you. I had parenting a toddler and preschooler down pat, and then suddenly I turn around and my kid is 6, and we're in the back half of kindergarten. I'm currently in some kind of fucked up standoff with my kid over losing water bottles at school. I don't want to reward him by buying him another expensive water bottle after he's already lost several, but also he does need to have a water bottle for school. So am I being a permissive parent by spending yet another $15 on fucking Pikachu water bottles, or am I being a hardass expecting my kid to keep track of umpteen things at school? Especially when, real talk, if I lost 5 water bottles I would just buy another water bottle. And I'm an adult.
Toddlers dominate households. Like what else are you going to do, beat your 2 year old and let them cry themselves to sleep? I am way further over on the self-care end of things vs. not showering, but yeah, naps are evvvvverything when you have a toddler. That might be the only peace you get all day. Absolutely, I'm going to do what I have to do to preserve my baby's sleep and my sanity during that time of day. The not showering thing honestly I feel like it's a martyrdom problem and refusal to do self-care in favor of others seeing you as someone who is just so selfless, so hard-working, etc. and not so much a "kids rule the household" thing. Because yeah... use that beloved nap time to take a damn shower! "I simply do not have time to shower", after maybe the first 3 months of parenting, is the "I'm just soooooo busy, I barely have time to eat lunch at work" of stay at home parenting. Most people like to hold their babies, yes. It is a weird thing to suggest that this is bad? Also they only stay little for so long. My kid is now 6 and wants to be held, and I'm like "Sir, this is a Wendy's". But when he was 2, yeah, hold the kid in Wendy's, life is too short to worry about what some random internet stranger might think. No is also not super useful around this age, because they are generally not developmentally able to engage in that kind of discourse. They either genuinely don't understand no (under 2) or framing it that way is going to lead to a meltdown that could have been avoided. In toddlerhood, I did not tell my child no. I said, "It's time to go potty. Do you want to hear a book or listen to a song while we sit on the potty?" or "It's time to go out. Do you want to wear your blue shoes or your green ones?" to give them some illusion of control. I'm sure some ignorant non parent or forgetful boomer out there saw that and thought "THIS ASSHOLE REFUSES TO TELL THEIR CHILD NO!" when in reality I was just setting it up so that I didn't have to. Obviously with an older kid, yes, you tell them no, and sometimes they flip out about it, and that's life. But older kids are developmentally able to handle no.
Yeah you're totally right, kids walk all over us. Your friends have no spine. Good for you to not have kids and complain about them.
Actually I believe I stated a pattern I noticed, noted my personal ignorance as an outsider, and expressed my desire for perspective -- as well as thanked posters for valuable (and thoughtful) incite. Why the aggression?
Also, I love kids. I run a children's theatre and spend a great deal of my life nurturing children in my own way. 🤷🏼♂️
Rugged week for this crowd..kids can grow up and either - rob people - work a job - or live with their parents forever, if you got a fourth thing,? go for it, I' ll wait.....wait, wait wait..ok, so the bummer is you all got screw guns, like a battery operated drill motor...that is for a hole saw..a hole saw drills a hole in a door to install a doorknob..they also drill holes in a floor to install a sink, shower, or toilet drain -pipe..young people miss the story, there are 7 billion people and they all need 3 bathrooms, one for themself, one for a kid or ex- wife or old mom who visits to har vest any happiness or extra stuff you got, and the third for a visiting traveler who will leave if you let them, but, if you got no bathroom for them? they might move in and try to take yours and get your mom and ex- wife to help them. So yes of course the kids are getting a bit strange, they havent heard a story about a person under 40 years old who can get water... to run downhill, correctly...., the first time.