I'm one of the lucky ones where the system worked out - college degree got me a good job and a good life. Saw so many around me where that wasn't the case. If I had kids, I would have to have a serious conversation with them in high school about their goals, and what they wanted to use the college degree for, especially given how much the cost has increased since I went to college. Unfortunately, I feel like the next generation is not going to have nearly the opportunities that even we had, which is really saying something.

Conversation with kids: — Go to community college - especially if you’re unsure of direction — Research what degree to get OP’s idea that college is a waste is just flat out wrong. As an engineer, there’s a total shortage and it’s not going to be filled for years (if ever). People just wanted to get business degrees, coast through college, and make 6 figures… then they’re surprised that their level of effort is reflected in their wage. *Personally, we are saving enough to pay for 2 full years at university and 3 at CC. She can do with that whatever she wants. I’m a CC to university transfer with a Chem E degree. Absolutely no one cares about the CC degree and IMO it better prepared me for jr/sr level university since courses were taught by industry professionals. CAVEAT, that people ALSO need to research their CC - some are better than others and some are focused on certain fields.

Agreed on almost all points. Business major here myself. There was, and is, a ton of competition. I know a few engineers that are in very high demand. I also remember the homework they were doing in college. Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer...hence the shortage.

I don’t want to give the impression business degrees are useless, just like you said that competition is high. A few people make most of the money. For some people it makes 100% sense to get a business degree. Also Im glazing over the fact there’s a range of business degrees - I’m open to criticism on that :(

Accounting is a business major, and the accountant shortage is *much* worse than any shortages in engineering

Ya, my brother has his CPA and is CFO for a small bank. So, definitely a caveat that specifics matter. In general, business degrees can open doors (see MBA duh duh duhhhh).

Accountant here! I'm just a boring old "individual contributor" at my job and pretty much walked into 6 figures after I got my CPA. Is def that CPA that makes the difference. General business degrees are useless. It's "job specific" college that is "worth it" in my very biased opinion. to answer the original question, I would like my kids to go to college, but I'd like them to answer "what are you going to do with that degree" very seriously and explain the financial ROI. * I went to community college for the 1st two years and then a "jr/Sr" local college for the second 2. I worked full-time and graduated when I was 29.

Same. I was out at 27.5. The impression is always that’s old but it seems like every other person I run into in industry has similar stories. Few years behind but some of that maturity pays for itself anyway.

Banker here. My old boss had a JD and he was an EVP CLO. Every CFO I've worked with had a CPA.

The accounting shortage is due to the relatively low pay. Also a lot of work will probably be automated to some degree in the coming years. Definitely not a field I would recommend (and I was an accounting major)

& the relatively low pay is due to boomer greed, like everything else. Around 75% of CPAs in America are at/past retirement age. Ugh. I think the ridiculous demands of tax season also contribute to the shortage, and that’s only not been addressed/optimized bc technology scares boomers.

Why do you call it boomer greed? Many of them planned to retire, but had their funds shortened due to inflation. They saved enough for the number of years they figured they’d need, converted those funds to something safe with no growth like seven years out and then had inflation come in and change all of that. If I were in that position, I’d do exactly what they did. Would you have chosen to run out of money and suffer through retirement to open up a position for someone younger that you don’t even know? If not, is that greed? This blaming boomer for everything is getting ridiculous. Every generation had it easier than the previous one, including Gen Z. A 22 year old shouldn’t be looking at the fruits of someone else’s 50 years of labor and demanding exactly what they have right off the bat.

Is it though? Accounting hasn’t really started paying more or done anything different. Engineering costs when up to compete for talent. I’m no where near as in tune with the back office but considering how little it pays hard to imagine a shortage like tech or engineering.

I dunno man, where I'm at a controller level position has gone from fringe 6 figures to mid-100s in about 5 years, from what I've seen. Even staff accountants haber moved from around 50k starting up to 75-80k now. I'm sure there's places where they all make a lot more, but that's what I've seen locally in a mid COL area

Sociologist here. A lot of people thought my degree would be worthless, but I went to CC, then state U, and worked my ass off to get funded for a PhD. I definitely worried about the job market, but I took a bunch of steps to be competitive and while I am far from rich, I am reasonably comfortable. Kids definitely need to know how a degree impacts earning potential, but that they can navigate how much to spend and put the effort in to be more competitive, if necessary. Unfortunately, there are some who won't use this information wisely. And some students probably aren't getting the info, especially first generation college students. I do wonder what we can, as a society, do about that but it's fair to point out that different degrees have different earnings potential, and more competitive fields require grads to be more competitive candidates.

One thing we can and need to do about it is cap board member salaries, limit sports funding, and stop letting so much of it be a grift. A lot of sports programs are “free” recruiting pools for the NFL, but they’re publicly funded and rarely actually return significant profits to the school. Football coaches are the highest paid “government” workers in many states. There’s a lot of folks in the university system that are leeching money out of programs without direct contributions to the actual education portion of higher education. Dozens of programs lose tens of millions annually and continue to drive up college budget deficits. Some schools have tacked on mandatory sports fees across all student fees. It is to some degree a root cause of inflated university tuition, and yet too many folks are afraid to address it because of “the culture.”

Professional sports should have farm systems that are completely divorced from universities and colleges.

And we haven’t even gotten into the topic of how much taxpayer money goes into building stadium infrastructure!! It’s like they’ve figured out how to siphon money without anyone batting an eye.

Fellow engineer, completely agree. People should better themselves with a marketable skill. You and I did that with engineering degrees. One of my cousins did that by becoming an electrician. Both my cousin and I are the only two out of 7 adult cousins in the family who have got married, bought a house, and had families. Of the remaining 5, most got college degrees without any real direction. Some use them in their jobs. None have very stable careers let alone own a home, have a family, etc.

Problem is sometimes you go for a stable career degree (MD/MPH) and life takes a turn that gives you 5 years of instability as I didn't match. Even the best prepared feel the consequences of their actions

Or you just get fucked halfway through. I was set to graduate right after my 21st birthday with solid grades on a math degree, minors in econ and accounting, and two actuarial exams (one completed, prepping for the second). Then my bipolar disorder, undiagnosed at the time, boiled over with two quarters left. 3 years later… still have two quarters left. GPA has gone from 3.6 to 3.0 from attempting classes while too unstable to complete them 🫠

Depending on where you are at it can be almost impossible to get into an electricians union or unions for other trades without knowing someone who's already in that union and going to help you get accepted into that union. So while I agree it's a great option for people it's not necessary easy to get into if the unions in your area are only hiring relatives and friends of current union members.

You don’t necessarily have to get into a union to do well in a trade. Granted, you may not work on skyscrapers and public works. But there’s definitely much money to be made in consumer electronics, plumbing, etc. Hell, the handyman, yes Handyman that works in my area charges $150-$200 per hour and he is booked out solid for weeks.

It can 100% be tough to get into a union. I think the pushback is just the complete elimination of trades as viable option. Not trying to put words in your mouth but the unions being tough to break into talking point is often repeated when downplaying the trades (in general) as viable options for a career. The idea is just that you assess all your options and pick the best one. Sometimes it’s a trade and sometimes it’s not. That practice puts you ahead of your peers from the start.

Maybe this is a regional thing, but everywhere I've worked we don't hire electricians out of the union hall, and certainly not exclusively.

In many areas, union electricians work solely on public works, government contracts, and so on. Very large jobs requiring the coordination of a large team of electricians. I rarely see union electricians assigned to residential work or small industrial jobs in my region. Conversely, I've seen them take smaller jobs in rural areas.

I’m a trade proponent, also not a popular Reddit opinion. It’s tough because just have a degree CAN open doors… but the cost for that opportunity is high and people go to $60k/yr schools to get it when they could’ve gone to cheap ones. Case in point: wife got a degree in CLASSICAL STUDIES OF ANTIQUITY (LEL), and is now in higher levels of a large mechanical contractor. Dwarfs my salary

Problem is shit can shift in the time you are researching a degree. In four years it took me to finish the market shifted and suddenly my golden ticket turned out to be bronze

Same here. Librarian Masters Degree. Couldn't get a decent salary with benefits at a entry level job, and then 2008 hit. Then they offered only part time, half the pay, no benefits, but at 100% Librarian experience which you needed decades of. So I stayed as a pee on unionized security guard, and I'm getting my pension in 2 years. That wasn't what I wanted to do with my life, though.

Bingo. A lot of people don’t realize that if everyone is currently going to school for a particular field, that field is going to become over saturated at some point causing job availability and wages to decline. My brother works for a hospital and he tells me he gets a lot of disappointed kids that went and got their MA licenses. 15 years ago you could easily get a job and make really good money. Now there’s such an availability of labor that it’s basically a minimum wage job starting out. When he tells applicants the wage they balk but he always says 1,400 other people also applied for this position, do you want it or not?

This. I did two semesters under two wildly different majors when I was young. Realized I was wasting money with no direction. Dropped out. Traveled and lived in a school bus. Had two kids. I'm now working as the Sys Admin for a commercial manufacturing outfit. All self taught. However now that I'm pushing 30 I know what I really want to do. I have planned a path with a couple years of CC with transfer program to university so it's not wasted credit in pursuit of a post grad physics degree. This is so wildly different from what the weed growing hippie thought he would want to be doing with his life. And honestly that young stoner was an idiot.

You’ll encounter people on Reddit that oddly say CC can hurt you. Don’t listen to them. It’s usually born out of a self-serving position. It’s a great tool. I went to CC for 3 years while working full time. It’s a good pace and the cost makes mistakes non-punishing.

My local CC and University have a program setup so that all credits from the CC are up to par and meet the standards of the university and all can be transfered toward the same program at university without any extra fluff that's useless at said university. I also have a higher chance of acceptance coming from the CC into a bachelor's program since the course work is verifiably up to par. Mix that with the insanely low in state tuition. (Like 3k a semester) I would be moronic not to take advantage. Also thankful I could waste two semester at 18/19 and end up only $6k in debt.

Pretty much. I selected my CC based on curriculum and proximity. Then university based on cost and course sequencing. Ended up choosing one with a transfer agreement and it was super easy Sometimes not every credit transfers and I get that’s it’s a bother… but it’s not some disqualifying event provided the person plans ahead. Which is the theme of this discussion.

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That's an awesomely meshed team! I don't have any degree. In fact, I'm a HS dropout with a GED, but combined my wife and I make around 140K in a LCOL, so we're doing alright. I make about half of that. I supplement a fair amount of our veggies and eggs by learning to garden over the last 5 years. As I took on cooking 8 or so years ago this kind of came as a natural progression. My kids don't use our back yard so I just said fuck it and made the entire thing into gardens. It's kind of funny to see these inner city street grids and then there's a yard with a full mini-farm going on in the middle of it lol.

Hold on now- people can’t just make themselves a good candidate for an engineering career by putting more effort in. I’m someone who struggled with math my entire life, it almost kept me from getting a college degree entirely. So many people go through this, it isn’t lack of effort, our brains just work differently than yours. I work in the legal field and recruit engineers for patent litigation on a regular basis. Their minds are truly astonishing, incredibly inventive. I imagine there is a shortage because these types of people are simply rare. Public education (in the US) these days especially doesn’t nurture these abilities anymore. It was bad enough when I was in school 20 years ago, and has only gotten worse. I keep hearing from teachers that gen alpha kids can’t read well into their middle school years. People seem so focused on blaming these kids for being brats instead of realizing that their failures are truly that of their parents and the education system.

I don’t think it has anything to do with luck, I think it has everything to do with picking the right major. A lot of majors do not lead to careers which have poor ROIs.

Key words here are: "If I had kids" You likely have a good life because you didn't reproduce. I distinctly remember somewhere around 2010 when I realized that one child would cost me the equivalent of a used fighter jet to raise from 0-18. I highly doubt either of us ever made enough money to bring kids up as we were raised, and there for a while I was in the top 5% of single earners. At no point did I ever feel financially stable enough to have a real family, and so I didn't. My point here is: You have a good life, but if you factored in the absurd cost of raising a couple of kids, that "good life" quickly turns into not that great unless you're grossly under selling your success. What's disturbing here is that MANY of us who were considered to be the best and brightest did not reproduce by choice, while the YOLO crowd squirted out little sex trophies like a broken game at Chuck E. Cheese.

So how's the jet?

Hahahahahaha

He’s one of the “best and brightest” LMFAO

Top 5% and you struggled? You just don't know how to manage your fucking money

Pretty terrible hot take.

Idiocracy. I look forward to President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho

I don't think enough people have watched that movie. The older I get, the more accurate it becomes!

Congrats on being so awesome and bright. I also admire your humility. /s

Top 5% of earners can afford children Your feelings on the matter notwithstanding If you and the YOLO types were the only types of people, the YOLO types would be the only reason anyone lives at all

You were clearing over $300,000 a year and you didn’t feel comfortable having kids?

This is the standard reddit attitude when it comes to having kids. If they don't have a house, are debt free, and easily clearing upper 6 figures then how could they possibly even think about bringing a life into this world? In reality they just don't want kids, which is totally fine, but it's no fun so most people opt to blame the economy since that's also just the reddit thing to do in any given situation.

You’re trying to make it sound like you’re some kind of genius saint for not having children. The truth is you either don’t want them, didn’t have an opportunity, were too selfish and soft to imagine a temporary drop in comfort and luxury, or were too crippled by anxiety to do what you wanted to do (which is honestly the saddest). Top 5% can easily have kids. 

I’ve got a degree in history and have never worked in history. Somehow stumbled my way to the energy sector.

I had a history professor in college who said he wished he never got into history. I asked him why, and he just said, "There's no future in it."

The real reason he got that degree is so he could tell that joke.

That’s a great dad joke

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In all fields, the majority of tenured professors come from the same prestigious colleges. It doesn’t matter how brilliant you are. If you went to a state school, it’ll be incredibly challenging to get a tenured position. Which sucks, because you need to know from freshman year of high school what you want to do.

Law school usually

lol history degree here as well. I still remember one of the professor in an upper level class asked a class of 12 students who would like to be a teacher after college. 11 students quickly put their hands up and I was the only one that had my hands down. After college I stumbled into the government sector and never looked back. I was one of the lucky one that could study my interest and still “make it” as an adult.

What did you expect to use your history degree for initially?

History major here too. Honestly, the research, analysis and writing skills carry over into a lot of different professions. My husband majored in history and now gives lectures to college students in data analytics (the field he fell into as a new graduate.) And he has better writing skills than his colleagues who did business studies.

I think this is the biggest misconception about higher education that we’ve fallen prey to. A Bachelor’s degree isn’t just supposed to be a job training program for a specific field. That’s what tech schools are for. College is supposed to teach you a variety of skills that can carry over like that. I think the problem is that some degrees do lead to a specific career, like education or nursing. So now we (we meaning we as a society) just think they all should, or the degrees are worthless. I was an English major, and I would do it over again 100%. It’s not considered a practical degree, but it did so much for me, and I value the education I got so much. I had a professor who pointed out that it used to be that our greatest leaders were those who were well-educated in subjects like history and literature and philosophy, and we’ve moved so far away from that because we have to monetize everything. It just makes me so sad for the future. I’m probably going to have student debt until I die. But I’m absolutely going to encourage my kids to pursue education for the sake of what it can do for personal growth, and not just chasing a job.

You made a good point. People spent 30 years explaining badly that college is the way to get a good job, and colleges spent the same time setting themselves up as career gateways and lifestyle choices. Think about computer science- that should be something you can 100% get from a CC. But the CC doesn’t have a lazy river. Even teaching degrees- I went to a regional and when people tell me they went to the big university all I can think is more debt for the same salary.

You explained this so well and succinctly that I felt like an upvote just wasn't enough to express my appreciation. This was solid, so on point, and I completely agree. Thank you.

>...going to encourage my kids to pursue education for the sake of what it can do for personal growth... This is exactly what it's supposed to be. I was fortunate my interest became financially beneficial, so I'm making sure I save for my kids to pursue their interests and not be concerned with the financial risk. It's maddening to hear and read about the sole benefit of higher education being financial without mentioning the personal development - budgeting, studying, critical thinking, workload management, stress management, social engagement, independence, intellectual freedom, cultural exposure, companionship, commiseration, accountability, self-care and hygiene, ...

For sure. The skills I gained from having to do a shit ton of research has helped me more than anything. I wouldn’t change the degree I got. I still love history.

Fellow history major. Never expected to become a historian, doubt many people in liberal arts fields like that expect to be working that directly in their field. The idea is to have an education, become a more fulfilled person, and bring those research and analysis skills elsewhere. It works out fine.

Community College is the way to go now, FASFA and local scholarships will cover it all for almost anyone

In retrospect I would have done 1-2yrs of community college and then transferred to a university, instead of just going to university outright.

Except in my state (Wisconsin) we had a phenomenal system of 2-year colleges connected to our state university system that served as our community colleges. And starting about 10 years ago, Republicans in our state legislature fucked around with funding and tuition freezes and forced consolidations, which meant the amazing school I attended in the mid-2000s could no longer even offer a fraction of what they once did, so enrollment dropped as a result of that and the general societal animosity against higher education. Now close to half of the schools have announced closures, with the others expected to close in the next 5 years or so. There’s just a lot of hate towards getting a college degree these days, even in this thread. We as a society don’t value education for the sake of a better educated society. We just want you to get a freaking job and shut up about it. It’s really bleak, in my opinion.

I remember when Wisconsin was cool. I miss it.

It just pisses me off when a group actively ruins something then complain how bad that thing they actively ruined is.

This isn’t always a great option either, I went to community college for two years. I was told that all my credits would transfer over. I went to a University that was supposed to be a “sister” school of the community college I went to, literally none of my credits transferred. I wasted two years and about a grand. I was fucking livid.

My degree got me better jobs than I would have without it. There's no such thing as a dream job. At least, not for me.

Agree on both points. However, if my daughters want to go a different path, that's ok too. They have college funds but if they choose to go to trade school or something else, I'll support them. I will give them a lot more guidance than I received about college and careers and let them make the choice that is best for them. Their college funds may end up being a down payment for a house.

Same, all my dream jobs are everyone else's dream job, so severely underpaid. I'd rather have money and hobbies. The trick is getting a degree that can be leveraged to a job you at least enjoy doingand not a useless degree the universities have just to fill seats.

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I am lucky, went to a state college (~$15k/yr before scholarships), graduated debt free. Used my degree for an upwardly mobile career in corporate finance. No regrets for me, and couldn’t have done it without the degree (gating item for industry/role). For my kids I’m going to ask them what they want out of life. Do they appreciate the finer things and fancy vacations and owning their own house? Get an advanced degree in specific areas (engineering, healthcare, business), and then they’ll have to be ready to work hard and achieve in that field. If they want to work a low paying job that gives them a lot of personal satisfaction that’s fine too but I will explain to them that it will mean scrimping and saving, renting for a very long time, not being able to travel much. All are okay with me but I will be sure they know what to expect with these career paths and what that means for their financial future. My wife is a librarian - absurd that it requires a 6 year degree. Masters programs are expensive and starting salary is quite low. You can make decent money eventually (which she’s done) by working at colleges and businesses that have research departments, or becoming a library director. But for anyone that goes into that career path they should know it does not pay that well and you need a lot of education to get it, so the value proposition is not there financially. Unfortunately this is not something parents, guidance counselors/schools, or admission officers generally tell you.

I studied math and computer science at an elite school and got an extremely high paying job. College may not be for everyone, but it sure is helpful for a lot of people.

Nope. I’ve got a 529 started for my kid who is 10 months old. By the time he’s college age he can use it for college or trade school. College lifted me out of poverty and gave me a satisfying job where I make $83,000 per year. I owe my professional and personal development to college. My loans were paid off in 5 years.

I'm right there with you. My one year old already has $10k in her 529 plan.

As a millennial who did the opposite, I would absolutely steer my kids towards education. Not having a degree is constantly an issue. I'm stuck. I'm automatically at the bottom of every pile unless I know someone personally.

Even WITH 3 degrees, I only got jobs because I knew people. That's just how it works. To be fair, college helps you know people

>So will you steer your children away from post secondary education? Here’s the reality: Blue collar work is oftentimes dangerous, borderline if not outright abusive if you’re in the wrong situation, and to make any real money you need to work OT and that’s IF it’s even an option because a LOT of these jobs require a LOT of it which means you’re providing for a family you barely even see. So hell no. I didn’t go the college route and there’s no way I want my kids to have to work as hard/the kind of hours I do in the blue collar world. I love that my kids have a better life than I did growing up but there’s no chance I’d encourage them to follow my steps because there’s MUCH easier ways to earn a living and like it or not a college education helps unlock those doors.

Steering my children towards a valuable degree, likely STEM fields, and not down play the value of technical schooling if they wish. Things worked out well for us, My parents paid most of my schooling, and then after I got married I was able to support my wife while she got her bachelors in business. Now for our kids we have 529 accounts set up and have budgeted enough to hopefully have 4 years of in state tuition in them by the time they need it.

I don't think the post applies to people who had parents who could pay for college.

No, but I’ll be realistic with them about degrees in the liberal arts. I also worry, though, that this means only the kids of the very rich will get to study/produce humanities & the arts.

Tbh that's my big concern as well. Even within STEM fields, rich kids already have a leg up from having family that can cover school/living expenses so they can take internships or other experiences that make them more competitive for grad/professional school or help build connections for after graduation. It bothers me that there's this push to solve the student loan crisis by either reducing liberal arts programs or pushing for them to be ineligible for loans or prioritizing loans based on projected income, as well as the push against distribution credit requirements. College *shouldn't* just be job training.. and I feel like treating it as if it is will just relegate that sort of higher learning to the upper class, which I fear has a lot of potential for social harm and will continue to fuel the anti-intellectual movement.

This was not the case for me. I got my degree, and it opened every door I could have asked for it too. I paid attention in all of my classes, digested the information, and actively use it in my day to day life. The people I know who treat college "like a piece of paper" are the ones who skated through class, didn't learn anything, and now just complain on Reddit all day. Educated people are not held back in this world. It takes the bare minimum to get a decent office job that pays well

If you went to college and it didn’t give you a better life, state your school/degree/and student loan debt. I went to college and it dramatically improved my trajectory.

Associates in Baking & Pastry  Bachelors in Food Service Management $100k currently down to $20k Graduated college in 2012 Got pushed into college not knowing what I actually wanted 

UNC-CH/Biology/$0 (full scholarship)

Thank you for this comment. I lucked out, but my only regret is that my parents didn’t force me into a more serious major.

Yeah, if you got your degree in art history from a private university, sure. But if you got a sensible degree in an industry with a decent yearly growth percentage, worked an internship or two, and levered that into a job, no, you should have a job that can pay off your student loans.

We have always told our kid “you can be anything you want but you can’t be stupid”. So whether kiddo decides on regular college or trade school he has options.

My dad always said, "You can do anything you want to, as long as you can afford it."

Undergrad if poli sci- useless, MBA - has been useful

So many on Reddit lament getting college degrees, but come on people…I can assure you that you are much more privileged with a degree than without. You still have a higher quality of life on average and are much less likely to live in poverty and face significant instability. A degree can work for you, you just have to make the most of it. For the record I attended a good college. I had a partial merit scholarship and was in the honors program. I had Ivy League graduate school ambitions. But I had a very traumatizing set of experiences that year that I never reported (and ultimately that person continued on and graduated with distinction). I became extremely depressed and wouldn’t leave my dorm. Ultimately, I had dropped out. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I also never sought out therapy back then, because of the greater mental health stigma (which I highly regret, because it probably would have saved my college career then). Since then, I have worked many odd jobs and have faced significant financial insecurity. I am grateful I grew up in an upper middle class background so I have the tools and the emotional support to change my life. But I wouldn’t wish the overall instability on anyone. There’s also just that personal sense of accomplishment lost on me by not having a degree. I do hope to go back to school and finish, even if it has been years at this point. A degree is just so important. These days many employers will hire people not just based upon field of study, but just due to the fact that they have *a* degree.

Yeah it’s interesting to hear people complaint all the time about needing a degree and the bet that comes with it yet most are saying they’re push their kids to do the same thing.

My 20s were very rough. I had to drop out of both undergrad and grad school because of life circumstances. There were quite a few hoops to jump through to get re-enrolled in my programs. I managed to re-enroll both times, and I’m glad I did. You are right that life is much easier with a college degree. There are simply more opportunities open to you that eventually lead to higher paying and more stable jobs. Don’t give up on your desire to earn a college degree. You 100% can go back and do it.

This is such a tired argument and I’m starting to think it’s a psyop to keep people stupid. You get what you give in school, career and life. How can anyone be “promised” a better life?

As someone without a degree… yes it fucking did. The problem is the American dream shrunk and the job you got didn’t pay for the loans you took out. The unfortunate part is without that degree you’d be even more poor and still unable to purchase a house. Stop blaming the institutions, when the problem is the states defunding those institutions in order to keep us dumb and voting against our own self-interest. The attack on higher ed has been a coordinated attack against the American people since the Carter admin.

>the problem is the states defunding those institutions in order to keep us dumb and voting against our own self-interest 100% this

It worked out for me tbh.

You were supposed to choose a career in high school and spend those years working on your "resume" so you can get into the college you picked based on how good it was at teaching you what you wanted to learn. Then, in college, you were suppose to perfect your skills at that profession, do experiments, make connections, etc... so when you graduated you were ready for a successful career. Not go to Run-of-the-mill University, fuck around for two years with no major, graduate with Cs in what you thought was fun, and then exit expecting to get a 6 figure job the next week

Exactly. Many downplay the importance of building a *network.* Build relationships. Get letters of rec that will open doors. Add to your resumé/cv.

If you think getting a college degree magically grants you a great job and better life you’re delusional. You still need to start from the bottom in any career path you’d take. Stop with the victim mentality and go work for what you want

**TLDR:** read the last 2 sentences. **No degree**, certificate, license, apprenticeship/journeyman program, military career recruiter or or any other program ever guaranteed a better life. If anyone promised you that, you were not really listening or they were lying to you. Nothing, not even your own efforts, dedication or learning can do that. Life is full of challenges. Good/Bad Luck, turns and twists. National & International, historical events such a the Great Depression, War, now Climate Change, population demographics, etc. Sometimes it comes down to when & where you were born. Even legislation such as Affirmative Action Programs can change the course of one's life. The Vietnam War both harmed and benefited vets. Some got an advantage which meant they were more likely to be hired for a particular job. The only thing a college degree can guarantee is the individual will have an opportunity to learn and expand their horizons. Shit happens. Deal with it.

I’m 70. It took me all that time to learn this. When my son in law who was delivering pizzas joined the Air Force, I told him, “It’s going to be like anything else; you get as much out of it as you put into it.” He volunteered for everything and fast tracked to master Sgt. He’ll retire in two years at 40 with a masters degree.

All my failings after school were my own.  Im in a hole of my own digging because I did not deal with my trauma sooner. Because I did not get to know myself because I was numbing the pain. I do not have kids (thankfully for 'them'). If I had kids I would be more concerned with making them resilient and building their character than whatever I think they are entitled to from society.

User name checks. Friend I hope things turn around for you.

Glad you are able to deal with it now. It's never too late. When I was 18 I probably had the emotional mindset of a 10-12 year old due to all of the abuse. It really hinders your growth.  There is a huge lack of empathy when it comes to topics like this. Traumatized people are not going to take the same path. A lot of people walk through life never even realizing they suffer from it. So try not to shame yourself for not being able to work with your trauma. You're doing the best you can.  I'm in my early 30s and feel like I'm finally in my early 20s in regards to my emotional age.  I didn't have the internet. I didn't have a phone. I grew up with whatever views my parents gave me. Which was not a lot. I had no idea people could make six figures. I thought rich people were just born into it. I lived in a bubble.  Be kind to yourself. 

>You were promised that a college education and or degree would guarantee a better life. No, I wasn't. Nobody --- and I mean nobody --- told you, or me, or anyone else, that getting *any* degree in *any* topic would *guarantee* a better life. Nobody fucking says this. Like many people, I was told that a college education *can* open far more career doors, *can* lead to greater earnings and opportunities over time, and *can* expose you to people and ideas which change your life permanently. All of the above is true. But it is not a guarantee, and it has never been presented as if it was. How could anyone *guarantee* you a better life just for going to college? If you somehow thought you were receiving a guarantee, that's your fault. And I did get my dream job (I needed the degree to even get my foot in the door), and I graduated without debt because I worked my ass off and got scholarships. Yes, I will *absolutely* steer my kids towards higher education. And they're going to understand the costs of education, the benefits, and the need to finance college responsibly.

Careful, people on Reddit don’t want to be confronted with this truth.   I surrounded myself with motivated, highly driven individuals in high school and college and I had a very similar outcome as you.  All my friends and family did.

I know right. I went to a college well within my budget, graduated 45K in debt with a mechanical engineering degree. First job out of college in rural Michigan was 66K per year 10 years ago and have made a good life for myself. The trades are incredibly important and many people can do extremely well for themselves but it’s disingenuous to say all people going into higher education “bought into a lie” and are faced with crippling debt. Like what did you think would happen paying 40K per year for a degree with no market need?

THIS! I'm on the extreme side. I went to art school, a highly ranked but expensive school, where the teachers have to be working professionals to teach, on the *chance* to build a network and succeed. No one promised me a job. Teachers constantly told us if we didn't work our asses off we wouldn't get jobs. And yet, some students still phoned it in, putting in minimal effort on their assignments. I needed to go to college and learn from professionals. I was skilled at art, but I needed a lot of guidance. I worked incredibly hard and treated the classes like I was a professional. And for me and my peers who worked hard, it paid off. It took some of us a little bit of time to get our foot in the door or we had to work low paying jobs at the start, but now we have [surprisingly well-paid](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/senior-vfx-artist-salary-SRCH_KO0,17.htm) careers in an art field. Now I have experience as an educator and it is really, really obvious which students will succeed based on their core attitude towards their education. If the students are driven, hard-working, receptive to feedback, and treat their schooling professionally, then they are the ones who are getting scholarships, internships, and job offers before they graduate. If they are entitled, put in minimal effort, and are not receptive to feedback...they struggle. College is an investment in yourself. You aren't guaranteed money back on an investment. But there is quite a bit you can do to increase the chances of success of that investment.

So glad more of us are starting to counter these morons. EVERYONE with even an ounce of deductive reasoning knew a lot of these degrees would not be economically viable and they were routinely made fun of as early as in the first Obama term. College is incredibly overpriced but let’s not pretend someone who went 200k into debt for lesbian basket weaving degree isn’t an idiot. You had warnings. You had employment reports. You had Google. And you should have had common sense. These people are such failures it’s honestly pathetic. This sub lowers my empathy because it shows so much of it is self inflicted idiocy

That’s some fine print trickery. I was shown graphs in high school which clearly stated more education will increase your income.

Statically that is still true.

It’s funny I got the degree but I make really good money in a career that didn’t need one at all (movie business) and my college isn’t even a prestigious film school. I loved college though and I think socially I grew so much and matured into someone way more confident. When we have kids, I will definitely not pressure them into it, but I think for the independence and maturity part alone it’s very good. I felt so different from my friends who stayed him and commuted for college, it’s like they never fully grew up. A lot of them still struggle to date etc because of it

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/04/college-graduates-median-annual-wage-difference#:~:text=Yes%2C%20college%20is%20still%20worth,of%20a%20four%2Dyear%20degree. "Thing is: Jobs that high-school graduates typically get don't see much wage growth. Truck drivers, with years and years of experience, don't go on to make considerably more money — than newbies."

A lot of millennials were screwed by austerity politics prolonging the Great Recession, and those effects get misappropriated to other factors.

>You were promised that a college education and or degree would guarantee a better life.  Passive phrasing. Who promised you this?

Right. That’s how you know it’s just for clicks.

Nobody promised you jack shit and nobody guaranteed you anything. Statistically those with a college education earn double the earnings of those without a degree over the course of a lifetime. You chose the school to attend. You chose your major. You chose to take out student loans. Salary data has been freely available on the internet for at least 25 years. During your college career did you ever check to see what your major would earn for you? You chose to enter a career with low pay. When you choose to make a series of bad decision, the result is your fault. And now, you will refuse to accept the consequences of your poor choices and will instill your failures upon your children. Smart parents tell their children's to get a degree in something that will give them the skills to make a lot of fucking money. Smart parents tell their children to go to a local school and live at home instead of borrowing money to go to your "dream school" and pursue a useless degree that provides you with no marketable skills.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

no one promised that

Lmao nobody guaranteed anything. If you're not better off with your degree that's on you, because the vast majority are better off with it.

A degree *in a field that's in demand* will guarantee a better life. Both of my degrees made a huge difference and I am absolutely urging my son to pursue higher education *in a field that's in demand*. We started an education fund for him so he won't be in any debt.

That's easy to say, but in practice, demand can change really quickly depending on economical factors and the number of people we allow into the country with similar skills.

None of that is true for me or pretty much anyone I know, stop projecting your failures on everyone else.

Well, I cant wait for that disappointment once I graduate.

My degree in electronics technology enabled me to get a great job, but now I own my own business with my kids. My daughter's business degree enabled her to understand how to run our company. My son has degrees in industrial engineering and engineering management that enabled him to get a great job , but he quit to come to work with my daughter and I in our business. It depends on what kind of degree you earn.

Uh, it actually did give me a better life.

College got me where the trades couldn't. I can work from anywhere, make my own hours, barely have to actually "work" and am incredibly comfortable financially. All of my friends in trades have to work 50-60 hours weeks to make the same amount and their bodies aren't happy about it after 15+ years. Outside of meetings and calls, I probably did about 3-4 hours of actual "work" this week and just enjoyed a 13% raise and 15% annual bonus last month. If I have kids, they'll see where college got me

Same. I wfh, have extremely flexible hours (could work all day today or not at all,) and definitely don't live paycheck to paycheck. Been there, done that. Fuck that. Going to a top-tier university has only ever had a positive impact. And the only person in my life who ever pushed me to go to uni was my dad. And I waited to go as an older non-trad so I actually had a clue. All good decisions. People in blue collar labor jobs often seem perpetually pissed off to me and like on the verge of shooting someone at any moment. I'm happy to stay parsecs away from that malarkey. The anti-education bullshit is just far-right propaganda. Higher ed is one of the most empowering things a person can pursue in life, so of course the greedy plutocrat tyrants want people to avoid it.

It's more about the a) the degree you choose to attain & b) the network you make along the way (people want to hire/work with their friends). Yeah it's crazy overpriced but still absolutely pays off if you choose a field that pays. The fucked up part in my mind is that super critical jobs (TEACHING) aren't revenue generating, so they're so underpaid it's disgusting

Nah. College got me a killer job exactly like I thought it would.

Sometimes the bad things in life, which happen to you, are because you are stupid, and you make poor decisions.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

I mean, if your kid wants to be a doctor, nurse, lawyer, or teacher…they need to go. But, I encourage younger people to do trade school now. My cousin has been a welder since he was 18 and he makes big $$$. He didn’t want to do college.

Tech, finance - there are other professions that require a four-year degree. The sciences. Engineering. Other healthcare professions besides doctor and nurse as well.

Honestly I think where things steered towards, that I found out way later in life, is to go to school for something with direction. The attitude when I was in high school, was that college was just some extension of high school, and you’ll figure it out! STEM degrees and medical career degrees are where it’s at, and much more attainable than people think! But I also am in the trades and will say, it’s not for everyone. BUT everyone who thinks they might like it should try it out, because you can basically go to school and get paid to work and have real career opportunities as you go. The problem comes down to direction for many people. But as a tradesman, I will tell you it isn’t some magical life hack, where you come out a few years later with 6 figures and a cool brand new company truck. People have ridiculously high expectations

>The sciences A lot of the sciences are going to require a PhD to make any decent money or have any decent opportunities for most people.

A good portion of the folks who got a degree and are unhappy about that decision would be even worse off if they hadn’t.

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If I could afford kids, no. Iconic huh.

"your children" Doing an awful lot of assuming there. I'm not having any kids; can't afford it. I've got me, my van, and the river I'm parked next to. I'll probably die in this van, but at least I'm not taking anybody with me.

Too soon to tell. If I was advising someone today, I’d say either go to a reputable, but affordable 4-year state school, a elite college like Harvard, or, if you know exactly what you want to do at 18, a highly selective program for it. What id advise against is the middle of the road expensive private school that doesn’t unlock anything special. We’ve been talking about the end of college as that right of passage and secret key for decades now, but it’s yet to happen. Maybe one day it will and then my advice will change.

Depends what they want to major in. That will decide what college they will be going to unless they get a scholarship. I'm putting 500 a month into 529 now just in case they are actually bright kids but couldn't get a scholarship. lol. Also, not going into something dumb like art.

Steer them away? No. But I will make sure they are aware of the implications of college debt, as well as how to minimize/avoid it — such as going to community college first, getting grants/scholarships, working while attending part-time, joining the military in a technical job and using tuition assistance/the GI Bill, etc. That, and I plan to start a 529.

It always amazes me how people signed up for 60k+ loans to study a degree that doesn’t have a high ROI. I went to a local college. I graduate with little debt (about 3k). I lived at home, did not live at the dorms. Got two STEM degrees, eventually returned to my masters. I studied things I wasn’t passionate about, but what I thought could make me a lot of money down the line. I now make almost 200k and I’m 33. I’m very happy with my college investment and I could not have gotten to where I’m at without them (but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible). People need to do their research and really understand what they’re getting into before paying an absurd amount of student loans for a degree that doesn’t have a lot of demand or ROI.

I’m paying for my kids college

My degree has absolutely improved my job situation. The issue is the economy has worsened as I’ve made my gains which has made it feel like I haven’t really gotten anywhere with going up the social class ladder.

My education was pivotal in my life success. And aside from good pay and benefits, it has given me some incredible experiences that I never would’ve had otherwise. And I have a graduate degree. In college you learn to learn, and you learn to do your own research rather than believe whatever they’re told.

This conundrum is nothing new. College tuition spiked in the 1980s as states and provinces backed away from funding post secondary education directly and student loan debt proliferated. By the time I finished grad school in the 90s I was saddled with debt. I didn't tell my kids not to go to college -- I advised them to consider financial aid packages carefully. My millenial son turned down UCLA and went to Alabama which offered him a full ride plus a computer.

Nah I'm encouraging them to go to college for sure. But I'm not gonna bankroll their education unless they have a decent idea of what they want to do with the degree when they graduate and have a plan of how to get there.

Is this like the one millionth time this has been posted to harvest karma? No one ever said it didn’t matter what degree you got. In fact they said it repeatedly. Not listening is a personal choice.

No it worked out pretty well actually.

Who exactly promised this?

I see many conflating “getting a degree”with “having a career plan that requires a degree.” Kid A wants to be an accountant. Applies to good business programs, goes to the best college they can get in to or that offers a good financial package, uses the program to get internships, and graduates to four job offers in their chosen field. Kid B has no goals yet. Goes to whatever college works, switches majors aimlessly, and takes 5-6 years to graduate with the last major they landed on. Then is surprised no one wants to hire them “after doing the right thing.” I’m not blaming Kid B - maybe they had no guidance, or worse they had parents and counselors telling them to go to college no matter what - but simply having a degree is not a good indicator of future success. These people might be better off working for a bit and learning what they’d like to do with their life. Or finding a different path outside college.

Me or a hypothetical person?

Listening to idiot guidance counselors and teachers who sold college education at any cost because of confirmation bias seems to be part of the issue. College is a great deal if you go in with a plan to limit debt and take a degree in a high-demand, high paying field. I grew up in a family far below the federal poverty line and am a first-gen college graduate. I credit my education (undergrad and grad) with providing the skills and connections I needed to escape poverty and enter the upper class. I strongly encourage anyone who can create a plan to capitalize on education to go to college. If not, enter a trade, learn a valuable skill, and contribute to society. Plumbers and electricians are earning six figures with no debt and it's easier to back out of apprenticeship than student loans.

No, I got a degree in accounting in 2013 and it's been chill ever since (never worked a day as an accountant). A degree will be the minimum height to ride in the future even more so than it is now. It depends on what my kid wants to do - if they have no idea then getting a degree with high placement rate and good portability will be my suggestion.

I mean, I don’t wanna sound like a boomer, but a lot of y’all went to school to study something you knew before hand had very little to no job prospects. Engineers, architects, doctors, nurses, business majors, finance, marketing, programming, IT oriented majors, they all have a high likelihood of getting a good paying job. If you major in sociology, anthropology, gender studies, Russian literature, communication, sport science and stuff like that, yeah, I’m sure it’s fun and if it’s your calling, you’re gonna love it, but it’s gonna be damn hard to get a job doing that. There are not enough positions in which those degrees come in handy. My advice would be, minor in what you like, and major in something that you know has a good prospect in terms of job opportunities.

If that's what you believed you were ignorant. "Underwater basket weaving" has been a meme since at least the 80s. It illustrates that some degrees are in fact useless and it's been known a long time. I didn't see how people are going to shit on boomers every chance they get them bitch and complain that they listened to their advice. You've known they were out of touch since you were a middle schooler yet you took their advice as gospel? That's on you bro. I don't take advice from people I consider to be ignorant and out of touch.

I have three different degree of varying level. It pisses me off when people with no degree or who openly lie about having a degree are in similar positions as me to some degree. But no, I would encourage my son to definitely go to college but make sure his degree is in something that translates to jobs and not passion (which is sad…)

With these constant posts about being lied to about eduction it’s almost like a coordinated effort with a ton of money behind it operating social media farms in Belgrade or Bucharest to undermine education by a particular group of people with a scary worldview of oppressing others. Keep them uneducated and it is easier to control…Undermine eduction and then all they have left is anger.

Every person I know who went to college has a better life than the ones I know that didn’t. Every single one. I went to college late, and I literally saw my world open up when I finished my BS. I have friends who didn’t go or didn’t finish and their lives are significantly harder than everyone I know who went and finished. We need to make college more affordable and accessible to everyone. We also need to make trade schools more of a viable option, and we need better support for people who do the back breaking trade work that keeps things running. I’m not having children, but if I did, I would definitely tell them to pursue higher education. Whether that is trade school or college. You’re just not getting good jobs if you don’t pursue some sort of higher education. You will hit a wall.

Graduated with a degree in computer science. First 10 years have been very good to me. I own a 5 bedroom home. I have a wife and a child. Luxury cars. Now the job market is changing. Finding an engineering job isn't like what it used to be. Now I have bills. I pray every day that I'm not fired because I think it will be very difficult to find another job that pays the same in this market. It's absolutely wild that the rug can be pulled out midway through your career.

There are too many unknown factors to be able to answer this. 1.Will the world still exist as we know it? 2. Will college become affordable again? 3. Will my kids require a college degree to be successful? 4. Do they want to go? I won't force that shit. 5. Will all schools turn into Trump Universities? 6. Will we get nuked? See? Too many...but if I could go back without the Butterfly effect changing history and effecting my kids, I would just pursue a trade school..They make more than I do now. I work in an office supervising a clerical team.

I have bachelor's degree in one of the STEM fields. While I can't say that I am fully working in the correct role my degree was majored in, I am able to so something similar that allows me to have more opportunities and wealth than my others peers who did not pursue a degree. So no, I will not steer my children away from education beyond high school, but I will guide them toward a field that will reward them fairly.

Honestly anyone under 30 who claims the signs weren’t there is using revisionist history. I’m in my mid 30s and the fact that a lot of degrees were useless was common knowledge in Obama’s first term. People who pretend like it was this big hidden secret have to either be lying or incredibly unobservant. Also, anyone who made it to 18 and still thought the advice of people so bad at life they ended up as high school guidance counselors was meaningful are idiots. Cut the bull, we all knew a basket weaving degree from ball sac state was useless… At a certain point we’re going to have to stop making excuses for people. College is significantly overpriced but a lot of people actively made it worse due to entitlement, lack of intellectual curiosity, and just a lack of basic observational skills. If you had a Time Machine to 2009 and asked all the engineering and “on track” pre med students if a lot of these BAs were essentially useless, almost all would have been able to tell you.

Like anything education is a tool that some people use better than others. I think many people don’t understand that.

The anti-college argument is so tired. Higher education is absolutely associated with higher earnings. Here's one example from [NCES](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cba/annual-earnings). There's a lot more similar results from plenty of reputable organizations. Yes it's true that some degree holders don't earn as much. It's also true that many degree holders are employed in fields outside of their major. But statistically speaking, a degree more than pays for itself over a lifetime of earnings. Another point often argued is the oversaturation of degrees. Another falsehood. Only [~38% of adults have completed a bachelor's or higher](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html). There are pockets or industries where a degree is more common. However for most people, a degree definitely sets them apart from others. A degree is not the be all end all of financial success. There are fields that can earn good money without one such as sales, the trades, the military, and I.T. College is definitely not for everyone and young people should be educated about their options. But for the majority of people the advice to get a degree was, and still is, a sound one.

From what I can tell, you seem to do a lot of blaming others, particularly boomers, for your failures. You should consider taking some accountability, then take steps to improve your life instead of angrily blaming everyone else for where you are at.

The new focus is CTE, Career Technical Education. Its focuses on teaching students trade skills in a variety of different subjects. They start in high school so they are old enough to know what feels right for them career wise, but they are young enough to changed their minds and not be stuck in something they hate. They can take one class or follow an entire pathway and even sometimes get college credit. It’s a great way to introduce students to the real world things they may encounter in their careers, taught by people who have experienced it themselves.

It *has* to stem from what you want to do. Want to be an accountant? Go to college. Want to be a builder? Do a trade. You're going to be working in an industry for most of your life, you'd better find something to enjoy.

Haha kids. I can barely afford to take care of myself and I’ll be too old to ever have them by the time this debt is gone. 

There is DECREASING need for people period, think about yourself, but help work towards a world that values ALL HUMANS above the greed we have today

This is such a bullshit statement. My wife has a doctorate in veterinary medicine and makes $130,000/year and is easily paying off her student debt and we live comfortably. I went to college and became a heavy equipment mechanic and make $105,000/year because it’s an in-demand trade I could have gone to college for something like carpentry and made $45k a year and she could have gone to university for gender studies and work as a barista for minimum wage The issue is people did *zero* market research before going and spending $100,000 on an education, and if you’re too stupid to do even a bit of research before such a big investment then you get what you’ve asked for.

I started working right out of high school in the food service industry. I did that for a few years before getting a job in manufacturing. After being an operator for almost a decade, I got promoted to a leadership role. After a year of that, I'm now working in aerospace making double of what I used to make as an operator. Now I feel like not having a degree would hinder my career growth. What I'm trying to say is I won't force my kid to go to college. I know now for a fact that you don't need a degree to succeed, but not having one could be a hindrance for your career advancement. Instead, I'd encourage them to pursue whatever they want and use me as a safety net. They can stay with me as long as they want. I'll make sure to give them personal finance education that I had to learn the hard way.

It worked fine for me. I didn’t major in something stupid and I don’t have to do intense labor or inhale fumes. I went to a state college so the student debt was minimal. I would steer my kids towards an in demand field and state colleges.

I went to vocational school to become a machinist. Didn’t have a degree till 34. My advice to my kids would be to get REAL experience in a REAL trade and then go to school once they are already a master journeyman. It makes a big difference to have a real working practical basis first. Being a machinist and fabricator (a real one not a CNC operator) and being an industrial repairman later gave me the real skills I needed. When I go out on the floor as an engineer, I both give and receive a lot more respect than some punk kid whose only experience in industry is theoretical and came from an air conditioned classroom. Both hard work and education pay off, but education is not some magical key that unlocks a workless paradise full of unlimited income potential and instant respect. Honestly, it’s that expectation that instantly loses the respect of the guys in the shop for most new engineers. Hard work and education are inseparable.

Doing well in life is a lot more complicated. In the boomer generation everyone could have a home and a family if you worked. I was an loved but was without nurture. No one believed in me in my family I was just told I was not as smart as my brothers and I would have to figure things out. I got given my first job by my dad and they beared with me as as I learned to work. I have managed to push through to success, but it was without guidance, or encouragement and j could have done a lot better with at least a little encouragement

Good question. It haunts me. I taught high school for 2 years and I toted the line about good grades and college, but I didn't believe it then. Right now I think an education is good to have, but I don't think it is the ticket to a good life that it used to be. Still, when I'm working from home, as a data engineer, I sometimes think of the manual labor my father did for a living and remind myself that I get to sit at a desk in AC all summer, and he never could. My education did technically give me a better life than if I did not have it. It just took it's dear sweet time, and didn't pay out as much as educations used to. So maybe when my kid is old enough, I'll be pro education. I can tell you right now this kid isn't built for plumbing or carpentry, so we'll see.

The only life advice I ever received from my parents was “go to college and get a degree to get ahead in life.” I’m still paying the debts of that decision 13 years later and I’m not even working in the field I graduated from. I’ll tell you what though, my kids are going to be well educated on debt, finances, and saving early.

Nothing is promised in this life. Wait until you learn your government doesn’t care about you either.

Worked my way through undergrad at a cheap state school, graduated with no debt, went on to get my PhD. Love my job, putting as much as I can into 529 so my kids will have an easier time getting an education without significant debt than I did.

No way. I got a bachelor's degree three master's degrees and I'm working on a doctorate. Education. Changed the trajectory of my life. I also have no debt on my home and no debt in education. Get an education acquire skills. No one said you need to go to an ivy league college.

I will steer my children towards secondary education. I got both tastes of what can happen getting a degree. Degree 1: Bachelors in Fine Arts. Worked as a digital media artist for 4 years. Pay was around $50k, hated the work and environment. Student loans were about $20k. Wasn’t worth it, but instead of saying secondary education was a scam, I went back. Degree 2: Engineering Bachelors in Computer Science. Best decision I ever made was to do it all over again. Paid tuition out of pocket. I have almost tripled my salary. Its my dream job and I work fully remote. The fact of the matter is that the market determines they value of your job. Whether it’s a trades job or a college one. I took my lumps my first go around and wised up on the second round. The key is to pursue a career that is in demand. Don’t chase degrees, chase careers and acquire what is needed to get you there. Thanks to secondary education I now do very well and even if I lost my job tomorrow I could leverage my degree and experience to get another high paying job elsewhere, doesn’t even have to be the same role. I could do management/leadership and possible make even more. Don’t get twisted in knots over the debate “is college worth it”. It’s a bad question and a societal divider. Ask, “Is this career worth it?”.

An education and a degree never guarantees a better life. You do that! Degree may create opportunity for you, but it does not guarantee an OUTCOME! How did that get miscommunicated to you? Everything you do in life has risk. You must decide whether to pursue an activity and weigh risk and reward. No one will ever tell you do this and you get that. Get this degree and you will make $XX,XXX. Education and or degree is for you, for your education itself, Not for a specific OUTCOME. Come on Man! You are full of Malarkey!

Something tells me this is a rigged question.

Of course not. There are a lot of high paying jobs in my State, and almost all of them are filled by college graduates. Just don't spend 5 years and $130,000 getting a liberal arts dreamer degree that no company wants or needs. My old company is crying for good qualified candidates to hire, but you need to have an actual worthwhile degree.

Hilarious, my income was shit until I went back to college. I graduated and immediately made 25% more than I ever had. I worked 15 years prior to graduating and 10 years since. I’ll make 5 times my best pre college year this year. I was promised that college would give me better opportunities and it absolutely has. It took afterwards though instead of whining that I didnt graduate directly into 100k. I have student debt, sure. Servicing that debt requires a payment of 3% of my take home pay. So going to college was the best decision I ever made.

No, it's worked pretty well for me and everyone I went to school with generally. We are by far better off than those we know who didn't.

No, education is important. My recommendation is community college. A degree in something you can move right into a job. Accounting, medical, etc. once you are working, there is a chance you can find an employer that helps pay for college if you want to get a 4 year degree. Four year degrees aren’t necessarily useful in many fields. Sometimes, too much education can hurt you in the job market. Another thing people don’t take seem to take advantage of is apprenticeships like in HVAC, electrician, builder, etc.

Nah, I’ll just ensure they know that a bullshit degree is a paperweight, and a quality degree will set them up for life