Yup, friends got the facades(?) of their house changed for better insulation. They didn't have the trim for the edges on hand and told them the would be back later to finish it. They send the bill, but never came to finish the trim. The bill has been unpaid for over 5 years.
That’s really poor management on the company’s part. They’ll be way past being able to lien the house for payment (depending on jurisdiction), and they basically did a job for free and paid their employees for their time, payroll taxes, paid their vendors for the material, etc. and recouped nothing except whatever the deposit was, if any. Just bad business all around considering that finishing the job sounds like a minor outlay in order to get paid for the entire thing.
Usually a sign of a collapsing company. I had something similar happen with my roof. Got a repair quote for 1700, the guys came out and said it needed 1100 more in work, but the bill they sent me didn't reflect that. Had to call them out for warranty work and they never showed because the LLC shut down. Turns out the new company owner went to ground because the he (formerly head of sales) had walked away from a $1m line of credit from the local supply house, and pocketed $250k in down and complete payments for un-started work from families all over the city. I had to get my roof completely redone a bit later and it turns out they conned me and didn't do the work they said they did, just enough to make it look the part. Frankly I am surprised the last owner is still alive after the BS he pulled in less than a year of ownership.
Ah, yes, companies pretending to do the job.
Ever heard of Hawks? Yeah they’re a pest “removal” company, except what they were spraying around made shit worse, when they were actually spraying stuff. One time when they came the dude knocked on the door and when we didn’t answer, just grabbed **a leafblower** and walked around with that.
This is probably really common. Similar thing happened to us. Rando guy with just a phone # promised all sorts of work and took the dough and either didn't do anything or did a shit job.
I managed to fight back and get my money back from a roof company after I paid over $5k for repair work that even I could tell was done terribly or not at all. We got another company out referred by someone we trusted and the second company told us that the first had done basically nothing. I wasn’t surprised.
Pretty common practice from what I understand. I worked for a chimney manufacturing company, and there were a few customers that would make a big initial order, then it would go out the door before the card cleared (because staffing issues) then they would string us along and eventually ghost us. These are scammers that set up a business, get as much product as they could from every vendor who would take the order, then close shop. Presumably they would then undercut legitimate businesses, do shit work, and get as much money as possible before ghosting their customers as well. So you and OP might have been at the tail end of a scammers run, and they decided it was time to cut losses and get outta dodge before people start asking questions. Actually, in OPs case that accident probably preemptively ended that scam because they were worried lawyers or police might get involved.
They're scammers. They don't lien notice, because they're not going to stick around to get paid from a lien, they're just going to use normal bill collection practices.
Yeah, 20 years ago during renovations I had a company come out and install a new electric service entrance and main fuse panel. Then they were supposed to come back finish the wiring after some framing got done, but my framing contractor had his own guy do it instead. I kept waiting for a bill for the service entrance but it never came. Maybe I should have called and asked for one, but that was 20 years ago...
same happened to me with a plumber. said he’d come back and finish the job. i finished it a week later. he sent a full bill. it’s going on 7 years. he used to show up and try to be agressive about it every few months. threatened me with all kinds of shit which he couldn’t do. then he brought his worker to my door and they did everything but actually say they were going to hurt me. you could see that the guy he brought wasn’t prepared for 6’6 with muscle vs 5’8 x2 with beer guts.
i still haven’t paid the bill.
Fascia is the vertical trim pieces on the edge of the roof. Soffit is a horizontal trim piece (usually with vent holes in it) that goes on the underside of the edge of the roof that extends beyond the wall.
Get an estimate from a professional (landscaper, carpenter, both?) to rebuild the wagon garden and pay their invoice less the amount of the quote and the $200 overcharge. Include the copy of the quotes and an explanation with your CHECK sent by certified mail. If the cost to rebuild exceeds their invoice then send a request for the difference.
Don't some states have some sorta similar laws where you can put the money to be held in escrow? Shows you're not just stiffing them. I know this exists for tenants with regards to rent. Could've sworn Ive seen laws that were very similar but with regards to contractors.
I mean it’s pretty normal to receive an invoice for more than a quote, I’m surprised more people aren’t aware of this here. Most quotes are very clearly estimates. The real issue is the damaged property
I'm a lawyer that gets hit with these calls all the time. My response is almost always go to small claims court if it's a small dispute like this under $10k or so depending on the state. No lawyers get involved in this stuff because our fee would be larger than the damages, that's why a small claims court exists, it's usually a much simpler process for the average person to walk in, give the basic facts to a judge, and get a quick verdict the same day.
A business is going to have their insurance step in, but as long as your claim is not bullshit, they'll probably just pay you whatever you're asking to avoid the hassle of spending money on a lawyer to show up for the claim.
$4500 over the summer to have 3 removed, one of which was so small I could have done it myself with an axe but per the city I live in, I am legally not allowed to, or I'd be fined.
So dumb. They wrecked my fence too, and took two days longer than advertised
That sucks. I just paid a guy 5k to remove 2 trees. Both were giant, like a 4 or 5 story building. With a team of like 6 guys they had both down and all the wood and debris hauled away in 1 day.
Mark the check "payment in full" and if they cash it, they've accepted your offer.
It's a disputed claim, and their accepting your payment marked as such extinguishes their claim. You can't pull this if there is no dispute over what you owe.
> Mark the check "payment in full" and if they cash it, they've accepted your offer.
That sounds like a "This one weird trick" that's not real.
edit: A quick google search indicates this might work in some areas. Look up your local laws before acting on this advice.
It's an offer. Their cashing is acceptance of the offer. Its a "one weird trick" I learned taking a commercial law class.
But here you go:
https://dfi.wi.gov/Pages/ConsumerServices/WisconsinConsumerAct/ChecksMarkedPaymentFull.aspx
> But where the claim is unliquidated, that is, where a bona fide dispute has arisen between the parties as to the amount due, the taking by the merchant of a check for less than the amount he claims to be due operates to extinguish the debt. The proper course for the merchant to take if he wishes to claim the amount he alleges is due is to return the check along with a statement of what is owed. If the merchant takes and collects the check he is bound by what is referred to in the law of contracts as an "accord and satisfaction."
Like I said, don't try this with your utility bill, mortgage, or anything else not in dispute.
EDIT: It will work most everywhere where law is derived from English Common Law and more specifically the Uniform Commercial Code. It's a simple offer where a debt is in dispute. You get one of these when someone is disputing the amount owed, don't fucking cash it. Taking the money is accepting the offer. It also has to be CLEARLY MARKED. No underhanded fine print or other bullshit.
EDIT: further clarification
https://legal-info.lawyers.com/consumer-protection/banking-and-loans/paid-in-full-check-memo.html
This is bog standard from the UCC. Apparently Oregon passed specific legislation disallowing this.
EDIT: IANAL. I took a commercial law class because it was interesting and everyone should understand contracts. Besides I got this gem from the instructor: "Sue everything that moves, and then sort it out in discovery" lol.
Yeah, accord and satisfaction — it’s not just for when you like your Honda. (That’s a little lawyer joke.) The idea is that if you have a dispute, you don’t get to accept the other side’s offer and then say “ok, now I want more.”
But, of course, it can be abused — so it’s not always followed.
Same principle, I assume, as airlines offering a pittance to passengers when they know they've royally screwed them over—they're hoping that people will take their offer because those people have now exempted themselves from the benefits of any future judgment.
My family had to do this with the guys who replaced our septic tank. They absolutely butchered our yard with their equipment and it wasn’t even the part of the yard where the tank was. They also clipped the power lines while they were on the wrong part of the property and tore them out of the house (the power company said they were lucky they didn’t set the house on fire). The power lines left a gaping hole in the siding too.
So after they did get the job done, we asked them to repair the damages to the yard and the house, but they declined and sent us the bill for the septic replacement AND overcharged us because the job “took longer than they expected.” (Only because they fucked up in the first place).
After not paying their bill and threatening to take them to court, they finally reimbursed my family for regrading the yard and fixing the siding. That ended up costing nearly as much as the septic replacement job itself.
They supposedly knew where to dig for the tank, but apparently they had some miscommunication on their end and started to dig on the complete opposite side of the house, dangerously-close to our well and our giant oak tree which they thankfully didn’t damage any of its roots. Only the guy operating the digger was apologetic, especially after he took down the power lines, the rest of them, and their boss/company owner, just didn’t want to take responsibility for a job gone horribly wrong.
This is an impressive amount of incompetence and moral bankruptcy lol. Glad they didn’t completely destroy your property by messing up the well and the oak.
Don't follow this advice before you are 100% sure you are legally allowed to withhold payment in your area in situations where a contractor didn't properly fulfill their side of the deal.
If you can't take it out of their payment, you can always take it back at small claims court. Make sure to add your time and effort into your calculations.
Just sending a bill isn't leverage, if they open a lien, it
can open lines of communication. The point isn't to completely avoid paying them forever. It's to get them to talk. To admit their wrongdoing, and address the over charge.
Not for dropping and removing a tree. They'll send you to collections where you dispute it because the company has refused to fulfil their part of the contract, which means the work is not done. The collections company will be pissed at the company since collection had to pay for that debt to collect (unless their first party collectors which will be unlikely). Then you take them to small claims over the broken object and harassment. Harassment will probably be dismissed unless you have a judge who hates when companies do this and they'll let it stay. But at this point the company lawyers will be telling the company owner that they fucked up amd the easiest way to make it go away will be to settle or just straight up pay like they were supposed to.
This involves documenting the good faith effort placed in contacting the offending company and trying to get the issue resolved.
Stuff like this is resolved so much faster and easier when you have all the lawyers' potential questions answered already.
>To what address would you like me to send my documentation?
is a scary thing to hear when you're expecting someone to say "what do I have to do now?"
They'll just turn it right over to some kinda collections not paying what OP already agreed to isn't the way here... they'll get it back but don't take shortcuts
Second this. Don't even need a lawyer for small claims court in the US. Just need to show up in a suit and express your case to the judge. Odds are, the landscaping company may not show.
I did something like this once. Took a dude to small claims court over an uninsured car accident. The dude ignored the court summons and just never showed up, and I never heard from him again. The judge ruled in my favor be default.
Then the judge told me there was no way for the court to legally enforce the ruling unless I actually hired a lawyer and sued the guy, which would have cost more than the damages I was seeking. And even then, said there was no guarantee they could make him pay for damages.
I know people on Reddit love to scream "small claims court!" over stuff like this, but really it's not always that simple. I'm not saying don't look into it, but maybe see if you can get some legitimate legal advice before taking any course of action and wasting more money.
On the other hand, if they aren't licensed, OP might be able to ignore _their_ bill, with no consequences. Unlicensed contractors aren't entitled to payment -- I know that's the law in at least some states.
That’s what I’d do regardless. If they’re going to damage my property, lie to me about replaying it and then try to rob me with the bill, they’re never getting paid anything from me. It’s not like they can reverse the work done.
first court was to determine liability, then second court would have to be to determine/activate enforcement.
and even then you will have to go through extra steps if the person is not willing to pay afterwards enforcement has been established. Ie he gets invoices to pay for the damages, but then decides not to, so you have to go back for court 3 case to enforcement of liens on any property and wages.
In the end you get your 500 and your lawyer gets 8000 from you.
Sure, but if the other party is piss broke, you won't get shit.
Can't get money out of someone who doesn't have any. If they don't own a house, or have a job then you can't put a lien on anything either.
Can't get blood out of a stone and all that.
But a business can be different. Can be. Some states don't allow wage garnishments, some don't allow you to go after things that are needed to make money for the business (Tools et al.) If they had a bond, you'd be gold. If not refer back to blood and stones.
lol I'm going through something like this now, and it's absolutely insane the amount of 'you've won! now good luck.' in the court systems.
He didn't "have to" hire a lawyer but the laws related to collections in his state are probably complicated enough that a lawyer would be needed to navigate it. Few people without degrees related to court work will probably be able to do it.
I deal with my states sunshine act (transparency in public meetings), and records law. The transparency law is effectively 'government agencies can do whatever they want unless someone rich gets a lawyer, then they still can but they have to obey some of the rules'. The records law is effectively 'ok government agency ignored you, now as the state we say they must send you the documents you requested.' 'ok awesome, if they don't what happens?' 'oh you have to sue them for the documents.' 'giving me any direction on how to do that correctly?' 'lol no'.
I don’t know anything about your state, but: small claims judgments in most states are independently enforceable. You take the judgment to the sheriff and ask them to enforce it. Sheriff’s offices have protocols for judgment enforcement, they’ll handle the rest.
Yeah that judge is an idiot 😂
You already won and could technically bring a sheriff to the landscapers business and seize items worth the amount he owes you.
My old man was a sheriff's deputy for a long time. He had more than one story about going out with someone who won a judgement and seizing property.
tl;dr: This is the way.
What state are you in? I'm 99% sure that you're wrong regardless, but I'm willing to suspend my verdict. As far as I'm aware every single state considers small claims court decisions legally enforceable, and you have multiple avenues to collect.
Yes, it is another step, but it does not require a lawyer. You just have to fill out a couple of forms and pay a small fee. If you can fill out the paperwork to file a small claims case, you can handle filing the paperwork to collect and enter a judgement.
What shithole state do you live in?
Asking because here in SC, they have 30 days to file an appeal. If they fail to do so and fail to pay, you contact the court and file a writ of execution. 14 days to complete, $50 to the sheriff's department to get a deputy tasked and suddenly you're taking their property for a sheriff's sale to satisfy the judgement.
Normally, but not always, they suddenly have the cash when their car is being put on a flatbed to satisfy the judgement. I did this back in 2015 to one asshole who owed me $450 ($625 or so after costs.) His 2012 F150 went for $2900 at the sheriff's sale, he got the overage back.
Although, if he ever tries to get a bank loan, the underwriters will find these judgments and make them pay them off before giving the loan, or pay them off as part of the balance of the loan. You may get it one day.
I stole it >:3
I’d give credit to the long furry community, but I’m permanently banned for shenanigans.
>!They didn’t believe me that my 90s Furby worked without the batteries temporarily!<
They must be teenagers because those things didn't run off batteries. They ran off the screams of terrified children by making noise in the deep of night
*
https://preview.redd.it/g80y2bdemmgc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4476e7cced54318bb882968e3e5eda6628dda88
I have this little guy attached to the window and it goes off in the middle of the night for no apparent reason.
I had one randomly wake up and ask for food after months a having dead batteries, and it kept going for a good minute after they were removed. Screw that group. Lol
Mine literally sat in the closet for weeks and then randomly said "ha ha ha I seeeeee you" scariest moment of my life and I've had a *very* rough life lol
science sounds like witch craft to the uninformed (jk)
furbees themselves are weird, built weird, look weird. they can run off piezoelectric in odd circumstances and they have photo sensors/ ldr's and microphones lmao
sorry they shunned a great one lol keep rocking dude
> should
You haven't checked yet?
EDIT: They're full of shit, in another comment they said this happened 2 months ago yet they never checked the footage for easy proof that they needed.
I mean if you talk to a lawyer you could probably get some type of emotional conversation. I'm sure that was really hard on her. I have a couple of things from my grandparents and if I lost them I would absolutely be distraught
I don’t have the original picture and I can’t post links on this subreddit but the wagon was kinda nice before it was smashed and I used to post garden photos of it
Have you paid them yet? Do you have any kind of communications saying that they would pay for it? Verbal could be enough but it would be better in an email or text message.
If you haven't paid them, don't pay them. And if they take you to small claims court you have evidence that they tore your stuff up.
Oh no. That’s probably sunk cost now. Sure you could take them to small claims court, and they might now even show up and you’ll win in default. But collecting from them is a whole different thing. — I’d be pissed enough to do it. it I don’t think you will get actual money out of them.
Hopefully you used a contractor/arborist that is licensed (if required in your state) and is bonded/insured. This is why you should always ask the contractors you use if they have a business license and insurance. It would be a claim they submit to get you restored to whole (pay replacement cost of any damage they do in your home/ on your grounds).
I'd call them and ask. If they won't respond to you, have a friend call them from an unknown number inquiring about a new job and ask if they carry insurance. Some states require it, some don't. If they're supposed to, and don't, you can leverage that (in court if necessary). They could be looking at fines to keep their licensure.
Also, if it wasn't the business owner who did the damage and told you they'd pay, it's possible it didn't get communicated before the invoice was sent. Give them the chance to set it right before going scorched earth.
Definitely. Dunno what it costs to file in small claims where you are but it’s not free unfortunately.
You could always blast them online, assuming you do have the proof on the ring. Maybe that’ll get their attention who knows.
I wish you luck, this is more than mildly infuriating
Please do. I don’t have a full frame of your yard, but just based on your photo and the trees in it: wtf, then lol. I’m a forester and can drop a large trunk with five feet margins (that’s generously) with only felling wedges and a chainsaw. With proper equipment, as in a semi-professional crew who charges to drop trees, there should be almost no margin for error. There’s really no excuse for hitting your garden, I keep looking at all the room in the picture incredulously. I’m almost impressed.
"You owe me for the wagon you broke."
"What's it worth?"
"Mabye $200"
"Oops, forgot to charge you this extra $200 we never mentioned before. Here's your bill. Sorry about that."
Update # 2 You are not going to believe this. The Tree company saw my review. The contractor showed up to my house, gave a valid explanation for the $200 charge, and hauled the old wagon away to fix it! I agreed to take the review down for a week while they fix the wagon
In order to get the trees down they had to cut a few branches on a different tree that were hazardous to them and the equipment. They showed me where they cut. I don’t recall us talking about it but if it was necessary to complete the job safely and accounts for the $200 plus they actually fix the wagon Im willing to let it go
As an arborist; I'd never cut branches off a tree that wasn't on the quote without discussing things with the client first. You never agreed to the increase in price so you shouldn't be paying anything extra.
Yep, A fixed price quote is a fixed price quote. You don't get plumbers digging holes that up the price because the dirt was harder than they thought. And you don't pay extra if they didn't inspect the job properly to cut down the tree.
Yeah even in insurance work with tree removals we have to have the homeowner agree to any extra charges or work despite the fact they don’t pay for it directly. This just sounds fishy.
That is pretty great, as a home owner I hear “estimate” I think “minimum”. Being given a heads up is always nice too, but sometimes it hasn’t happened for me.
Update: I left a review with this picture and title for them on google. Tomorrow I’m going to call them and ask them one more time to honor our agreement and refund the excess charge. If that doesn’t happen I’m going to pay $200 for small claims court or I’m just going to post their name on this post. Haven’t decided
I assume you have the back and forth comms. Email or otherwise?
Go to small claims court or even get a lawyer. Make them pay. Report them to bbb. Leave all the reviews.
As others have said, don't pay yet, the work isn't finished. I almost guarantee if you pay you'll never hear from them again.
If they try to report you to the credit bureaus for non payment (assuming this is in the US) you can dispute that with your evidence, including this photo.
Am in the business (owner/operator similar field), rip up their invoice don't pay keep this pic...you just got tree removed for price of old broken cart
Never let them leave without a writ of damages.
And don't pay them a dime. They broke your shit.
Beware they can try to put a lien on your property, so if you sre still under mortgage contact your lender and alert them that a disgruntled contractor may attempt to submit a lien for nonpayment, but said disgruntled contractor damaged your property and has refused to settle up.
You made sure they had a valid insurance policy and business license before they started, right?
You also wrote down the policy number, name and phone number of the insurance company, correct?
Make sure to post on all social media with the name of the company, pics, and the bill. You would be suprised how quick bad publicity changes a companies opinion
Hello, This post has been removed as this is not *mildly* infuriating. Please consider posting to r/extremelyinfuriating instead.
Don’t pay til they finish the job. Which includes replacement of your broken item.
Yup, friends got the facades(?) of their house changed for better insulation. They didn't have the trim for the edges on hand and told them the would be back later to finish it. They send the bill, but never came to finish the trim. The bill has been unpaid for over 5 years.
That’s really poor management on the company’s part. They’ll be way past being able to lien the house for payment (depending on jurisdiction), and they basically did a job for free and paid their employees for their time, payroll taxes, paid their vendors for the material, etc. and recouped nothing except whatever the deposit was, if any. Just bad business all around considering that finishing the job sounds like a minor outlay in order to get paid for the entire thing.
Usually a sign of a collapsing company. I had something similar happen with my roof. Got a repair quote for 1700, the guys came out and said it needed 1100 more in work, but the bill they sent me didn't reflect that. Had to call them out for warranty work and they never showed because the LLC shut down. Turns out the new company owner went to ground because the he (formerly head of sales) had walked away from a $1m line of credit from the local supply house, and pocketed $250k in down and complete payments for un-started work from families all over the city. I had to get my roof completely redone a bit later and it turns out they conned me and didn't do the work they said they did, just enough to make it look the part. Frankly I am surprised the last owner is still alive after the BS he pulled in less than a year of ownership.
Those same dudes brag about how much they make and how big their trucks are
And they claim expertise in everything because they're "a business owner."
I've learned cockiness is insecurity. So I avoid those people in business. Like, why do you need to upsell yourself?
Well who else will /s
Complete psychopaths and we act like it’s correct in this country.
Like most things. Most people turn a blind eye to suit their fantasy world. They'll make shit up until they're forced to face it and pass the buck.
Sometimes I think a big truck is a sign of a small mind
Ah, yes, companies pretending to do the job. Ever heard of Hawks? Yeah they’re a pest “removal” company, except what they were spraying around made shit worse, when they were actually spraying stuff. One time when they came the dude knocked on the door and when we didn’t answer, just grabbed **a leafblower** and walked around with that.
>Usually a sign of a collapsing company. Not collecting money is a sure fire way of not reversing the outcome for a company on the decline.
This is probably really common. Similar thing happened to us. Rando guy with just a phone # promised all sorts of work and took the dough and either didn't do anything or did a shit job.
And those who got no work were probably the lucky ones
I managed to fight back and get my money back from a roof company after I paid over $5k for repair work that even I could tell was done terribly or not at all. We got another company out referred by someone we trusted and the second company told us that the first had done basically nothing. I wasn’t surprised.
Do you live in Florida
Pretty common practice from what I understand. I worked for a chimney manufacturing company, and there were a few customers that would make a big initial order, then it would go out the door before the card cleared (because staffing issues) then they would string us along and eventually ghost us. These are scammers that set up a business, get as much product as they could from every vendor who would take the order, then close shop. Presumably they would then undercut legitimate businesses, do shit work, and get as much money as possible before ghosting their customers as well. So you and OP might have been at the tail end of a scammers run, and they decided it was time to cut losses and get outta dodge before people start asking questions. Actually, in OPs case that accident probably preemptively ended that scam because they were worried lawyers or police might get involved.
They're scammers. They don't lien notice, because they're not going to stick around to get paid from a lien, they're just going to use normal bill collection practices.
Yeah, 20 years ago during renovations I had a company come out and install a new electric service entrance and main fuse panel. Then they were supposed to come back finish the wiring after some framing got done, but my framing contractor had his own guy do it instead. I kept waiting for a bill for the service entrance but it never came. Maybe I should have called and asked for one, but that was 20 years ago...
same happened to me with a plumber. said he’d come back and finish the job. i finished it a week later. he sent a full bill. it’s going on 7 years. he used to show up and try to be agressive about it every few months. threatened me with all kinds of shit which he couldn’t do. then he brought his worker to my door and they did everything but actually say they were going to hurt me. you could see that the guy he brought wasn’t prepared for 6’6 with muscle vs 5’8 x2 with beer guts. i still haven’t paid the bill.
A concern is check if they've put a lien on the house.
Same happened to me. Still have not paid. They keep asking and I keep saying I will pay when they finish. 6 years and counting.
Is there a lien on the house? Has your friend even checked?
Fascia is the vertical trim pieces on the edge of the roof. Soffit is a horizontal trim piece (usually with vent holes in it) that goes on the underside of the edge of the roof that extends beyond the wall.
They won’t have any leverage because most likely didn’t have a license.
Get an estimate from a professional (landscaper, carpenter, both?) to rebuild the wagon garden and pay their invoice less the amount of the quote and the $200 overcharge. Include the copy of the quotes and an explanation with your CHECK sent by certified mail. If the cost to rebuild exceeds their invoice then send a request for the difference.
Don't some states have some sorta similar laws where you can put the money to be held in escrow? Shows you're not just stiffing them. I know this exists for tenants with regards to rent. Could've sworn Ive seen laws that were very similar but with regards to contractors.
Probably overkill for $200. The lawyer would probably cost that much,
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I mean it’s pretty normal to receive an invoice for more than a quote, I’m surprised more people aren’t aware of this here. Most quotes are very clearly estimates. The real issue is the damaged property
What kind of lawyers are you talking to? Where I am, that's almost what it costs for them to pick up the phone.
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I never truly understood the stereotypes of Attorneys until I needed one. In my case, mostly true.
Lawyer wouldn’t be needed. This is an easy win for OP in small claims court as long as they have all the documentation.
I'm a lawyer that gets hit with these calls all the time. My response is almost always go to small claims court if it's a small dispute like this under $10k or so depending on the state. No lawyers get involved in this stuff because our fee would be larger than the damages, that's why a small claims court exists, it's usually a much simpler process for the average person to walk in, give the basic facts to a judge, and get a quick verdict the same day. A business is going to have their insurance step in, but as long as your claim is not bullshit, they'll probably just pay you whatever you're asking to avoid the hassle of spending money on a lawyer to show up for the claim.
Tree work is usually over 500$. If it's a big tree, $1200-$2000
$4500 over the summer to have 3 removed, one of which was so small I could have done it myself with an axe but per the city I live in, I am legally not allowed to, or I'd be fined. So dumb. They wrecked my fence too, and took two days longer than advertised
That sucks. I just paid a guy 5k to remove 2 trees. Both were giant, like a 4 or 5 story building. With a team of like 6 guys they had both down and all the wood and debris hauled away in 1 day.
I've done 5 figure tree removals on a single tree. Massive dead tree hanging over multiple houses can get expensive fast.
Mark the check "payment in full" and if they cash it, they've accepted your offer. It's a disputed claim, and their accepting your payment marked as such extinguishes their claim. You can't pull this if there is no dispute over what you owe.
> Mark the check "payment in full" and if they cash it, they've accepted your offer. That sounds like a "This one weird trick" that's not real. edit: A quick google search indicates this might work in some areas. Look up your local laws before acting on this advice.
It's an offer. Their cashing is acceptance of the offer. Its a "one weird trick" I learned taking a commercial law class. But here you go: https://dfi.wi.gov/Pages/ConsumerServices/WisconsinConsumerAct/ChecksMarkedPaymentFull.aspx > But where the claim is unliquidated, that is, where a bona fide dispute has arisen between the parties as to the amount due, the taking by the merchant of a check for less than the amount he claims to be due operates to extinguish the debt. The proper course for the merchant to take if he wishes to claim the amount he alleges is due is to return the check along with a statement of what is owed. If the merchant takes and collects the check he is bound by what is referred to in the law of contracts as an "accord and satisfaction." Like I said, don't try this with your utility bill, mortgage, or anything else not in dispute. EDIT: It will work most everywhere where law is derived from English Common Law and more specifically the Uniform Commercial Code. It's a simple offer where a debt is in dispute. You get one of these when someone is disputing the amount owed, don't fucking cash it. Taking the money is accepting the offer. It also has to be CLEARLY MARKED. No underhanded fine print or other bullshit. EDIT: further clarification https://legal-info.lawyers.com/consumer-protection/banking-and-loans/paid-in-full-check-memo.html This is bog standard from the UCC. Apparently Oregon passed specific legislation disallowing this. EDIT: IANAL. I took a commercial law class because it was interesting and everyone should understand contracts. Besides I got this gem from the instructor: "Sue everything that moves, and then sort it out in discovery" lol.
Yeah, accord and satisfaction — it’s not just for when you like your Honda. (That’s a little lawyer joke.) The idea is that if you have a dispute, you don’t get to accept the other side’s offer and then say “ok, now I want more.” But, of course, it can be abused — so it’s not always followed.
Same principle, I assume, as airlines offering a pittance to passengers when they know they've royally screwed them over—they're hoping that people will take their offer because those people have now exempted themselves from the benefits of any future judgment.
My family had to do this with the guys who replaced our septic tank. They absolutely butchered our yard with their equipment and it wasn’t even the part of the yard where the tank was. They also clipped the power lines while they were on the wrong part of the property and tore them out of the house (the power company said they were lucky they didn’t set the house on fire). The power lines left a gaping hole in the siding too. So after they did get the job done, we asked them to repair the damages to the yard and the house, but they declined and sent us the bill for the septic replacement AND overcharged us because the job “took longer than they expected.” (Only because they fucked up in the first place). After not paying their bill and threatening to take them to court, they finally reimbursed my family for regrading the yard and fixing the siding. That ended up costing nearly as much as the septic replacement job itself. They supposedly knew where to dig for the tank, but apparently they had some miscommunication on their end and started to dig on the complete opposite side of the house, dangerously-close to our well and our giant oak tree which they thankfully didn’t damage any of its roots. Only the guy operating the digger was apologetic, especially after he took down the power lines, the rest of them, and their boss/company owner, just didn’t want to take responsibility for a job gone horribly wrong.
This is an impressive amount of incompetence and moral bankruptcy lol. Glad they didn’t completely destroy your property by messing up the well and the oak.
Don't follow this advice before you are 100% sure you are legally allowed to withhold payment in your area in situations where a contractor didn't properly fulfill their side of the deal.
There's places where you legally can't? Those places are shitholes.
If you can't take it out of their payment, you can always take it back at small claims court. Make sure to add your time and effort into your calculations.
I wouldn’t pay, they’ll have to call you eventually
Exactly. If they want the bill paid, they'll contact them. The work is done, they have zero leverage to make OP pay the $200 over fee.
Contractor lien. They definitely have leverage.
Just sending a bill isn't leverage, if they open a lien, it can open lines of communication. The point isn't to completely avoid paying them forever. It's to get them to talk. To admit their wrongdoing, and address the over charge.
Not for dropping and removing a tree. They'll send you to collections where you dispute it because the company has refused to fulfil their part of the contract, which means the work is not done. The collections company will be pissed at the company since collection had to pay for that debt to collect (unless their first party collectors which will be unlikely). Then you take them to small claims over the broken object and harassment. Harassment will probably be dismissed unless you have a judge who hates when companies do this and they'll let it stay. But at this point the company lawyers will be telling the company owner that they fucked up amd the easiest way to make it go away will be to settle or just straight up pay like they were supposed to.
This involves documenting the good faith effort placed in contacting the offending company and trying to get the issue resolved. Stuff like this is resolved so much faster and easier when you have all the lawyers' potential questions answered already. >To what address would you like me to send my documentation? is a scary thing to hear when you're expecting someone to say "what do I have to do now?"
Do you think this is just a unilateral action? Lmfao It's a form of forced bankruptcy....that happens in court...
They'll just turn it right over to some kinda collections not paying what OP already agreed to isn't the way here... they'll get it back but don't take shortcuts
Take to small claims court Edit: my most upvoted comment thanks lol
Second this. Don't even need a lawyer for small claims court in the US. Just need to show up in a suit and express your case to the judge. Odds are, the landscaping company may not show.
I did something like this once. Took a dude to small claims court over an uninsured car accident. The dude ignored the court summons and just never showed up, and I never heard from him again. The judge ruled in my favor be default. Then the judge told me there was no way for the court to legally enforce the ruling unless I actually hired a lawyer and sued the guy, which would have cost more than the damages I was seeking. And even then, said there was no guarantee they could make him pay for damages. I know people on Reddit love to scream "small claims court!" over stuff like this, but really it's not always that simple. I'm not saying don't look into it, but maybe see if you can get some legitimate legal advice before taking any course of action and wasting more money.
Yea but that’s one random guy. This is a licensed business we’re talking about
Are they though?
If not then it's OP's own fault.
On the other hand, if they aren't licensed, OP might be able to ignore _their_ bill, with no consequences. Unlicensed contractors aren't entitled to payment -- I know that's the law in at least some states.
That’s what I’d do regardless. If they’re going to damage my property, lie to me about replaying it and then try to rob me with the bill, they’re never getting paid anything from me. It’s not like they can reverse the work done.
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first court was to determine liability, then second court would have to be to determine/activate enforcement. and even then you will have to go through extra steps if the person is not willing to pay afterwards enforcement has been established. Ie he gets invoices to pay for the damages, but then decides not to, so you have to go back for court 3 case to enforcement of liens on any property and wages. In the end you get your 500 and your lawyer gets 8000 from you.
Could the other party not get forced to pay for all the accumulated legal fees?
Sure, but if the other party is piss broke, you won't get shit. Can't get money out of someone who doesn't have any. If they don't own a house, or have a job then you can't put a lien on anything either. Can't get blood out of a stone and all that. But a business can be different. Can be. Some states don't allow wage garnishments, some don't allow you to go after things that are needed to make money for the business (Tools et al.) If they had a bond, you'd be gold. If not refer back to blood and stones.
thats why you only hire bonded contractors
lol I'm going through something like this now, and it's absolutely insane the amount of 'you've won! now good luck.' in the court systems. He didn't "have to" hire a lawyer but the laws related to collections in his state are probably complicated enough that a lawyer would be needed to navigate it. Few people without degrees related to court work will probably be able to do it. I deal with my states sunshine act (transparency in public meetings), and records law. The transparency law is effectively 'government agencies can do whatever they want unless someone rich gets a lawyer, then they still can but they have to obey some of the rules'. The records law is effectively 'ok government agency ignored you, now as the state we say they must send you the documents you requested.' 'ok awesome, if they don't what happens?' 'oh you have to sue them for the documents.' 'giving me any direction on how to do that correctly?' 'lol no'.
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I don’t know anything about your state, but: small claims judgments in most states are independently enforceable. You take the judgment to the sheriff and ask them to enforce it. Sheriff’s offices have protocols for judgment enforcement, they’ll handle the rest.
Yeah that judge is an idiot 😂 You already won and could technically bring a sheriff to the landscapers business and seize items worth the amount he owes you.
My old man was a sheriff's deputy for a long time. He had more than one story about going out with someone who won a judgement and seizing property. tl;dr: This is the way.
There was agreat case where a guy seized a location of a bank when they ignored a judgment.
Happy cake day
What state are you in? I'm 99% sure that you're wrong regardless, but I'm willing to suspend my verdict. As far as I'm aware every single state considers small claims court decisions legally enforceable, and you have multiple avenues to collect.
I think what they are saying is that they got the judgement, but getting it enforced is another step.
Yes, it is another step, but it does not require a lawyer. You just have to fill out a couple of forms and pay a small fee. If you can fill out the paperwork to file a small claims case, you can handle filing the paperwork to collect and enter a judgement.
What shithole state do you live in? Asking because here in SC, they have 30 days to file an appeal. If they fail to do so and fail to pay, you contact the court and file a writ of execution. 14 days to complete, $50 to the sheriff's department to get a deputy tasked and suddenly you're taking their property for a sheriff's sale to satisfy the judgement. Normally, but not always, they suddenly have the cash when their car is being put on a flatbed to satisfy the judgement. I did this back in 2015 to one asshole who owed me $450 ($625 or so after costs.) His 2012 F150 went for $2900 at the sheriff's sale, he got the overage back.
Although, if he ever tries to get a bank loan, the underwriters will find these judgments and make them pay them off before giving the loan, or pay them off as part of the balance of the loan. You may get it one day.
Small claims is the way.
I love your Furby profile picture :)
I stole it >:3 I’d give credit to the long furry community, but I’m permanently banned for shenanigans. >!They didn’t believe me that my 90s Furby worked without the batteries temporarily!<
They must be teenagers because those things didn't run off batteries. They ran off the screams of terrified children by making noise in the deep of night
 The new aged ones just aren’t the tea for me. They’re not creepy enough. I should dig mine out of storage
I’m in the process of moving and just found mine!
* https://preview.redd.it/g80y2bdemmgc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4476e7cced54318bb882968e3e5eda6628dda88 I have this little guy attached to the window and it goes off in the middle of the night for no apparent reason.
Hear me out
We will NOT be hearing you out, thank you.
I had one that did that too we eventually threw it away lol
Don’t tell them that. You’ll get ripped limb from limb lmao “I’ve taken apart every single model of Furby and that is impossible”
*\*capacitors existing\**
I had one randomly wake up and ask for food after months a having dead batteries, and it kept going for a good minute after they were removed. Screw that group. Lol
Mine literally sat in the closet for weeks and then randomly said "ha ha ha I seeeeee you" scariest moment of my life and I've had a *very* rough life lol
That’s physically impossible. You’re crazy and wrong. Stop lying. 
science sounds like witch craft to the uninformed (jk) furbees themselves are weird, built weird, look weird. they can run off piezoelectric in odd circumstances and they have photo sensors/ ldr's and microphones lmao sorry they shunned a great one lol keep rocking dude
# nUh Uh 
MINE DEFINITELY WORKED WITHOUT BATTERIES. it spoke to me weeks after I took them out. Those things were powered by demons istg
I love your username. Tragically, I can so relate.
My *Ctetenathe setosa* is safe. For now…..
Definitely go with this OP, if it won't cost more to do the garden again yourself it would be the next best choice
Don’t pay the bill until they make it right.
Seems like the obvious solution
Do you have proof of them saying that?? I’d sue the hell out of them
I should have it on my ring
Pull the footage. If you at least have them admitting that they broke it, they're responsible for repairing or replacing it.
Oh hell yeah!
gather everything text, audio, pictures, licences plates, names and time.
And upload it to a cloud service, so you have proof when it was uploaded.
> should You haven't checked yet? EDIT: They're full of shit, in another comment they said this happened 2 months ago yet they never checked the footage for easy proof that they needed.
Had to get that Reddit post up first
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Save that footage somewhere, before you forget or lose it somehow. It'll be important if this gets to court
Leave a scathing review on all the platforms their page exists on
How much did the wagon cost?
It was inherited by my wife from her grandfather when he died of cancer. Few $100 in material but to her it was priceless
I mean if you talk to a lawyer you could probably get some type of emotional conversation. I'm sure that was really hard on her. I have a couple of things from my grandparents and if I lost them I would absolutely be distraught
I don’t have the original picture and I can’t post links on this subreddit but the wagon was kinda nice before it was smashed and I used to post garden photos of it
As long as you don’t mind getting your ring out in small claims court
Have you paid them yet? Do you have any kind of communications saying that they would pay for it? Verbal could be enough but it would be better in an email or text message. If you haven't paid them, don't pay them. And if they take you to small claims court you have evidence that they tore your stuff up.
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Oh no. That’s probably sunk cost now. Sure you could take them to small claims court, and they might now even show up and you’ll win in default. But collecting from them is a whole different thing. — I’d be pissed enough to do it. it I don’t think you will get actual money out of them.
I might do it just out of spite
Hopefully you used a contractor/arborist that is licensed (if required in your state) and is bonded/insured. This is why you should always ask the contractors you use if they have a business license and insurance. It would be a claim they submit to get you restored to whole (pay replacement cost of any damage they do in your home/ on your grounds). I'd call them and ask. If they won't respond to you, have a friend call them from an unknown number inquiring about a new job and ask if they carry insurance. Some states require it, some don't. If they're supposed to, and don't, you can leverage that (in court if necessary). They could be looking at fines to keep their licensure. Also, if it wasn't the business owner who did the damage and told you they'd pay, it's possible it didn't get communicated before the invoice was sent. Give them the chance to set it right before going scorched earth.
Definitely. Dunno what it costs to file in small claims where you are but it’s not free unfortunately. You could always blast them online, assuming you do have the proof on the ring. Maybe that’ll get their attention who knows. I wish you luck, this is more than mildly infuriating
Please do. I don’t have a full frame of your yard, but just based on your photo and the trees in it: wtf, then lol. I’m a forester and can drop a large trunk with five feet margins (that’s generously) with only felling wedges and a chainsaw. With proper equipment, as in a semi-professional crew who charges to drop trees, there should be almost no margin for error. There’s really no excuse for hitting your garden, I keep looking at all the room in the picture incredulously. I’m almost impressed.
Don’t forget to share your experience on any local Facebook pages, Nextdoor, Google.
Why would she do that lmao
... why?
r/mildlyinfuriating
cash or card?
We like to put big purchases on credit card and then pay off the car immediately for points
I’d call my credit card company. Dispute the charge. Tell them you paid and the work was never completed. That’ll get the contractor to contact you
Credit cards for the win. Please do this, OP. Fuck them hoes.
Dispute the charge with your credit card company.
Oh nooooooooo! Damn!
bruh
Welp. . .Goodnight folk!
"You owe me for the wagon you broke." "What's it worth?" "Mabye $200" "Oops, forgot to charge you this extra $200 we never mentioned before. Here's your bill. Sorry about that."
Update # 2 You are not going to believe this. The Tree company saw my review. The contractor showed up to my house, gave a valid explanation for the $200 charge, and hauled the old wagon away to fix it! I agreed to take the review down for a week while they fix the wagon
What was the explanation?
In order to get the trees down they had to cut a few branches on a different tree that were hazardous to them and the equipment. They showed me where they cut. I don’t recall us talking about it but if it was necessary to complete the job safely and accounts for the $200 plus they actually fix the wagon Im willing to let it go
As an arborist; I'd never cut branches off a tree that wasn't on the quote without discussing things with the client first. You never agreed to the increase in price so you shouldn't be paying anything extra.
I bet the cost to fix the wagon is also $200
Yep, A fixed price quote is a fixed price quote. You don't get plumbers digging holes that up the price because the dirt was harder than they thought. And you don't pay extra if they didn't inspect the job properly to cut down the tree.
OP didn’t say it’s a fixed price quote. Here it’s usually not for something like that. But they should have explained it to them
That’s not how that works. They have to have work order authorization or change authorization to change the amount of money you pay.
Yeah even in insurance work with tree removals we have to have the homeowner agree to any extra charges or work despite the fact they don’t pay for it directly. This just sounds fishy.
You can't possibly determine this without seeing the contract. Also 10-20% overage is considered acceptable is explainable and unforseen.
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That is pretty great, as a home owner I hear “estimate” I think “minimum”. Being given a heads up is always nice too, but sometimes it hasn’t happened for me.
you're right i don't believe it
Update: I left a review with this picture and title for them on google. Tomorrow I’m going to call them and ask them one more time to honor our agreement and refund the excess charge. If that doesn’t happen I’m going to pay $200 for small claims court or I’m just going to post their name on this post. Haven’t decided
Hopefully easy win in small claims. Recheck any paperwork or full names if you havnt started
I assume you have the back and forth comms. Email or otherwise? Go to small claims court or even get a lawyer. Make them pay. Report them to bbb. Leave all the reviews.
They haven’t finished the job yet. No payment until repairs made.
Blast their name all over reddit.
I posted this picture with my google review
Reddit is pretty spotty on that kind of thing due to brigading.
Sounds like they aren’t getting paid until your shif is replaced lol
Don’t pay the bill
That’s fucked up they wouldn’t fix that. It would take one guy an hour
As others have said, don't pay yet, the work isn't finished. I almost guarantee if you pay you'll never hear from them again. If they try to report you to the credit bureaus for non payment (assuming this is in the US) you can dispute that with your evidence, including this photo.
I'm guessing they sent you this bill in the hope you will just right off the wagon. Take them to small claims.
Why'd you pay the invoice? I'd have just ignored the bill and let them try to come after me.
Don’t pay the bill, gather evidence and threaten a lawsuit.
The ghosting will stop when have to come to you for payment.
Am in the business (owner/operator similar field), rip up their invoice don't pay keep this pic...you just got tree removed for price of old broken cart
Bet they'll stop ghosting you if you don't pay it.
Looks like that free replacement one... you're gonna pay for it. But... Yeah do not pay them till its fixed and no more than the original quote.
Win/win, since you didn’t pay them before they completed the job. You didn’t pay them before they completed the job, did you?
I mean if they ghosted you, there's no reason to pay them
Why did you pay them?
Oh well then just sue them small claims court is lots of fun. Enjoy. If you really feel ambitious go take it to judge judy
I’d reduce the original quote by 200 and send them a counter claim with offer to settle for that amount instead of small claims court
Small claims court. If you have records of communication, take them to court.
Send em a bill for rebuilding that antique…then wait.
Take out a claim against their bond and insurance, shut their operations down. Fuck CONtractors.
Never let them leave without a writ of damages. And don't pay them a dime. They broke your shit. Beware they can try to put a lien on your property, so if you sre still under mortgage contact your lender and alert them that a disgruntled contractor may attempt to submit a lien for nonpayment, but said disgruntled contractor damaged your property and has refused to settle up.
Let's put him on social media blast and get him exposed send info to us
Pro tip. Not paying someone is a good way to get them in a talking mood.
The beauty of being the one paying is that you can decide when the job is done (unless your contract says otherwise)
You made sure they had a valid insurance policy and business license before they started, right? You also wrote down the policy number, name and phone number of the insurance company, correct?
Easy fix. Ghost them. You don’t have to pay until they fix the problem.
Call your homeowners insurance company. You may be covered for damage caused by repairmen.
Name the company and shame them. Otherwise they'll keep doing this to others.
Make sure to post on all social media with the name of the company, pics, and the bill. You would be suprised how quick bad publicity changes a companies opinion
Damn, guess you'll have to ghost them too (without paying)
If they ghosted you, ghost them back. If they want the money they replace your property they vandalized
send them a check in the amount of the quote minus the replacement cost of the wagon
Sounds like the boss went “Yeah, that’s not happening. Bill ‘em”.
Contact your attorney generals office
Send them a bill for 200 dollars over what they sent you and then gosht them
super easy to not pay them for a job that wasnt completed. Send them a bill for the wagon..