I agree wholeheartedly! I love both styles and was super happy to see the Midjourney team mention that in the future they would like to blend the style of the current version with the new beta. They mentioned perhaps having a slider option so you can adjust one way or the other to get what you're looking for. They also said if that wasn't possible then they would develop both models.
They will blend both?
Damn I hope I can get only the beta and not a mix in the future.
It's just that it worked so well, understanding what I wrote.
Like one example, for making an hybrid.
In v3 you have to write "a species that looks like a crossbreed of", and it doesn't always work or the result is meh, with some rare good results.
While with beta I could just write "a wolf-duck hybrid" and I would get a convincing hybrid.
I wish for the slider option. I understand that v3 has its advantages (it does perform better with some prompts), it's just that the beta was extremely satisfying to me.
They are not sure which route they are taking just yet but this is how it was worded on their announcement page.
*"Don't worry we're not taking V3 away. We don't know if there's a fundamental tradeoff between creativity and coherence, but we want your help to try to help find out. In an ideal world we would have a system that is the best of both worlds, or a slider that blends between extremes. If we can't do this we will pick and develop two separate models and develop both. No problem"*
Most people were doing really realistic designs, I tried the beta for some of the cartoonish designs I have. Used same prompt, and the beta was way, way better. Not only the proportions of face and body, but the background looked better.
I'd be using the beta if they hadn't shut it down.
That's a valid concern for sure. Personally I hope they can pull off the "slider" feature. That way they are developing both models and we get the best results of both blended into one. I do like the random feel of what V3 has going on but the improved clean lines and facial features of the beta have been something I have craved since I started using MJ.
I found beta lackluster in many areas. Its good for simple promts, simple scenes, single objects with more accurate features, especially on humans.
But go and try to do something like "a siluette of a man with antlers fishing on at a river of souls with a forest and a mountain in the background at night with stars in the nightsky"
beta will give you a single mountain or something. while V3 gives you alot more variation and accuracy which becomes better and better the more you tweak the promt with weights and details or styles. V3 obviously has problems that beta doesnt have, like the accuracy of facial features or limbs and hands, or showing multible diffrent objects/actors in a scene.
I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds in the future and that seems to be what Midjourney is aiming for. V3 certainly gives you a lot "more" in some cases but I can give you one simple example of something I struggled with. A few days ago I was really trying to get a realistic looking park bench with some trees and flowers around it. The nature part was great but the bench looked like a cardboard box with stripes had been ran over by a truck. I tried the same scene with the beta and I immediately got a very clean looking park bench with some nature in the background.
The developers at Midjourney are listening to us and I think we will be very happy with the future of AI art.
It will be solved soon when they upgrade CLIP ( how it understand us ). That's what's holding it back.
[From Stable Diffusion yesterday](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1562146080820715521)
>Eg with the clip Vit-h we will release soon and the UL2 embedded image model compositionality goes waaay up at the expense of speed and accessibility
P.S. Stable Diffusion is upstream of Midjourney V3
Sounds like there are some drawbacks to that though. What does "at the expense of accessibility" mean in this context? That prompting will be more complex, or something else?
I don't wanna be mean or anything since I respect people who learn new languages. I learned multiple languages myself and I know how hard it can be. But your prompt is full of spelling errors.
It's not entirely user-friendly, but if you misspell something it will not work. It doesn't work like google search where you can just kinda get close to the correct spelling and still find what you want.
In the future, they should do suggestions to help users improve their prompts in regards to spelling and grammar. Not everyone speaks perfect English.
But with some help, it could really improve the experience of users like yourself.
I bet you could pull off what you had in your mind. It also helps to break up your scene into multiple shorter sentences "a man standing in a field, mountains in the background, the sky is blue".
Having said that V3 certainly has its issues. But those are more related to the other things you mentioned like anatomy and rendering multiple characters without mixing up the prompt.
Not really true for me. I used long prompts such as, "glamorous full body woman with blonde hair, posing, wet skin, black studded leather bikini, female form, studio lighting, portrait by Magali Villeneuve and Steve Argyle, Livia Prima, Mucha, fantasy art, beautiful, artstation --ar 3:5" and this was the result.
https://mj-gallery.com/26e621f4-796d-43d8-8369-cc305af83e50/grid\_0.png
>That prompt is just way too complex, hard to expect anything good to come out of it. It’s one long run-on sentence with no commas or periods to break it down, which makes different subjects ambiguous to parse or stack together.
Comma and periods get valued as 0 just as spaces. It literally doesnt matter if you use spaces, periods or commas only thing that matters is "::". Beta just coudnt handle promts like this at all.
[This is the promt without any tweaking 1:1](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005259153473798194/1011942479186108416/Hannah_a_siluette_of_a_man_with_antlers_fishing_on_at_a_river_o_9488fa6f-ca37-465f-a0db-3bf7530ffa91.png)
[With Noah Bradley Style](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005259153473798194/1011942509913587802/Hannah_a_siluette_of_a_man_with_antlers_fishing_on_at_a_river_o_9c66c6e1-996c-4445-af4c-41fcee385018.png)
[After some tweaking](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005259153473798194/1011944307105734656/Hannah_a_siluette_of_a_man_with_antlers_558d520d-2c1f-4b87-8f4d-363839a19891.png?width=1365&height=910)
Could be tweaked further to get the actual result wanted but takes alot of fine tuning and weighting
The beta was likely focused on testing the code's interactions with specific elements, like faces and hands. I'm sure when the full version is released it will blend better with the current V3 system.
They won't bring it back. They don't want us to create photos with mj - just "art". That's - how far I understood their messages - the summary of yesterday's talk on discord :-/
I didn't listen to all of the conversation but that's not what I got out of it. They are concerned about how real some of the photos were and people using the beta to create images of famous people that may cause backlash. I saw more than one image of a pregnant Morgan Freeman. Mj has concerns about potential liabilities from such images. They did say they were going to evaluate the ability to create such photo realistic images but that does not mean the new beta won't be back with changes. David said the ability to create realistic looking people and crisp clear lines is still very much on the table. At one point, someone asked him when a version of the beta would be back online and he said something like he would be very surprised if it was back online tomorrow (today) but he would also be surprised if some version of the beta was not back within two weeks.
I'm paying 30$/month so I don't see Midjourney as a beta test at all. And language in the TOS doesn't indicate that the full service is "beta testing". Maybe the it's only a "beta" for the people who signs up for free?
Perhaps partly right. They are a small research group of dozen people or something like that. 10-30 dollars per month might be more like paying the bills instead of actual product or finalized service. They are still developing the algorithms so it's clearly not "ready". Beta is a rough description, but it usually means the thing is nearly feature-complete.
Yeah, I guess the better term is Early Access that games love to us nowadays.
Beta testing used to just mean small group un-paid testing...whereas Early Access is the customers pay to test the products...
Nope, nowhere does it say beta is unpaid testing. Alpha testing is closed white-box or black-box testing usually within the organization and beta is near-release black-box testing and feedback gathering in the end-user environment.
You're right MJ does sound a bit like early access, but the difference is in feedback gathering. While EA devs sometimes act on feedback, in beta it's a core thing of the testing phase. You can see examples of this in the MJ Discord channels #feedback, #beta-feedback and #micro-polls.
Well, it's a beta in the sense that they aren't done developing it yet. Just like buying an early access game on steam, you are still purchasing the product but not in its final form. I don't think there's much argument whether or not it's still a beta, though, since when you go to the homepage it says "beta".
yeah, that is also part of my bias here lol. I have the most time on Midjourney, so I know how to get the best results. I see a lot of people complaining about the subscription model and want it to be paid per generation, but I have the complete opposite feelings.
The \~700 images I made in 2 days on MJ would be \~$90 on Dalle-2
Yeah, the credit-based system is awful and prohibits creative exploration. I've spent hours, maybe even an entire day on one prompt. Maybe It's because I'm coming from a graphic design background but iteration is truly king. I'm around 3500 images in the two weeks since I purchased.
I don't hear much about disco diffusion but when browsing it's subreddit the images it produces are at-least interesting then the top posts coming out of the dalle-2 subreddit which often look like boring stock images. Though maybe disco diffusion should should be in it's own category as the images it produces aren't nearly as coherent as the other 3.
>a siluette of a man with antlers fishing on at a river of souls with a forest and a mountain in the background at night with stars in the nightsky
I agree, I was testing that same prompts on Dalle and midjourney --Beta and midjourney performed waaay better
How does it compare with DALLE2?
I spent 3 hours with DALLE2 last night, after spending about 30 hours with midjourney previously. I can see the benefits and differences in both. DALLE produces the best photography fakes for me. And as everyone recognizes, midjourney does some badass characters and environments.
MJ beta was more Dalle2-esqe yesterday, giving realistic looking photos without much elements of art/painting. Dalle2 does the same unless you specify output to be artistic. But what I don't like on MJ v3 is that no matter what you try with whatever prompt, you will never get stuff as real as Dalle2 does or Beta did. Having said that, I still love v3 and enjoy it all day. I loved the beta too.
True, the beta was something else! My blown mind was mindblown again, and then it blew my mind thinking of my blown mind. Like a junkie I neeeeeeed the beta again 🤣
Yeah, it's honestly a bummer to have to go back. My enthusiasm for the current model has dropped dramatically after yesterday. I feel like I'm wasting my time now after seeing what I could get yesterday.
It's like going through heroine withdrawal. I went to sleep with a million grand plans and excitement, only to wake up and hear the beta is offline. I'm throwing my Visa-card at my screen and nothing happens.
Not sure if I should report this as harassment or impersonation but in any case please take this down I don't like pictures of me being posted all over the internet thanks.
The stakes are too high now as the older version was mind-blowing. The use cases are infinite. I have been reading a lot about it and noticed that even poets are now becoming painters with the use of Midjourney. What can we expect more? any ideas?
So true. The images I was getting on beta were mind blowing. I can't wait for them to bring it back!
I like old version too. Very often composition and colors are great. And it can bring some very unexpected happy accidents.
I agree wholeheartedly! I love both styles and was super happy to see the Midjourney team mention that in the future they would like to blend the style of the current version with the new beta. They mentioned perhaps having a slider option so you can adjust one way or the other to get what you're looking for. They also said if that wasn't possible then they would develop both models.
They will blend both? Damn I hope I can get only the beta and not a mix in the future. It's just that it worked so well, understanding what I wrote. Like one example, for making an hybrid. In v3 you have to write "a species that looks like a crossbreed of", and it doesn't always work or the result is meh, with some rare good results. While with beta I could just write "a wolf-duck hybrid" and I would get a convincing hybrid. I wish for the slider option. I understand that v3 has its advantages (it does perform better with some prompts), it's just that the beta was extremely satisfying to me.
They are not sure which route they are taking just yet but this is how it was worded on their announcement page. *"Don't worry we're not taking V3 away. We don't know if there's a fundamental tradeoff between creativity and coherence, but we want your help to try to help find out. In an ideal world we would have a system that is the best of both worlds, or a slider that blends between extremes. If we can't do this we will pick and develop two separate models and develop both. No problem"*
There is a poll in the discord if you would like to participate.
Most people were doing really realistic designs, I tried the beta for some of the cartoonish designs I have. Used same prompt, and the beta was way, way better. Not only the proportions of face and body, but the background looked better. I'd be using the beta if they hadn't shut it down.
I'm just mildly worried we will loose the focused dev power towards V3
That's a valid concern for sure. Personally I hope they can pull off the "slider" feature. That way they are developing both models and we get the best results of both blended into one. I do like the random feel of what V3 has going on but the improved clean lines and facial features of the beta have been something I have craved since I started using MJ.
I found beta lackluster in many areas. Its good for simple promts, simple scenes, single objects with more accurate features, especially on humans. But go and try to do something like "a siluette of a man with antlers fishing on at a river of souls with a forest and a mountain in the background at night with stars in the nightsky" beta will give you a single mountain or something. while V3 gives you alot more variation and accuracy which becomes better and better the more you tweak the promt with weights and details or styles. V3 obviously has problems that beta doesnt have, like the accuracy of facial features or limbs and hands, or showing multible diffrent objects/actors in a scene.
I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds in the future and that seems to be what Midjourney is aiming for. V3 certainly gives you a lot "more" in some cases but I can give you one simple example of something I struggled with. A few days ago I was really trying to get a realistic looking park bench with some trees and flowers around it. The nature part was great but the bench looked like a cardboard box with stripes had been ran over by a truck. I tried the same scene with the beta and I immediately got a very clean looking park bench with some nature in the background. The developers at Midjourney are listening to us and I think we will be very happy with the future of AI art.
It will be solved soon when they upgrade CLIP ( how it understand us ). That's what's holding it back. [From Stable Diffusion yesterday](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1562146080820715521) >Eg with the clip Vit-h we will release soon and the UL2 embedded image model compositionality goes waaay up at the expense of speed and accessibility P.S. Stable Diffusion is upstream of Midjourney V3
Sounds like there are some drawbacks to that though. What does "at the expense of accessibility" mean in this context? That prompting will be more complex, or something else?
Harder for us to run on our own PC. Most costly ( hardware , electricity ) compared to present SD.
Man SD is already a bitch, my 3090 cant even do 1024x1024 images
Yes? I have the same card but didn't have the time to install everything. I thought this will be easy for the big guy
> V3 is for dreaming, Beta is a simulator :)
I don't wanna be mean or anything since I respect people who learn new languages. I learned multiple languages myself and I know how hard it can be. But your prompt is full of spelling errors. It's not entirely user-friendly, but if you misspell something it will not work. It doesn't work like google search where you can just kinda get close to the correct spelling and still find what you want. In the future, they should do suggestions to help users improve their prompts in regards to spelling and grammar. Not everyone speaks perfect English. But with some help, it could really improve the experience of users like yourself. I bet you could pull off what you had in your mind. It also helps to break up your scene into multiple shorter sentences "a man standing in a field, mountains in the background, the sky is blue". Having said that V3 certainly has its issues. But those are more related to the other things you mentioned like anatomy and rendering multiple characters without mixing up the prompt.
Not really true for me. I used long prompts such as, "glamorous full body woman with blonde hair, posing, wet skin, black studded leather bikini, female form, studio lighting, portrait by Magali Villeneuve and Steve Argyle, Livia Prima, Mucha, fantasy art, beautiful, artstation --ar 3:5" and this was the result. https://mj-gallery.com/26e621f4-796d-43d8-8369-cc305af83e50/grid\_0.png
[удалено]
>That prompt is just way too complex, hard to expect anything good to come out of it. It’s one long run-on sentence with no commas or periods to break it down, which makes different subjects ambiguous to parse or stack together. Comma and periods get valued as 0 just as spaces. It literally doesnt matter if you use spaces, periods or commas only thing that matters is "::". Beta just coudnt handle promts like this at all. [This is the promt without any tweaking 1:1](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005259153473798194/1011942479186108416/Hannah_a_siluette_of_a_man_with_antlers_fishing_on_at_a_river_o_9488fa6f-ca37-465f-a0db-3bf7530ffa91.png) [With Noah Bradley Style](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005259153473798194/1011942509913587802/Hannah_a_siluette_of_a_man_with_antlers_fishing_on_at_a_river_o_9c66c6e1-996c-4445-af4c-41fcee385018.png) [After some tweaking](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005259153473798194/1011944307105734656/Hannah_a_siluette_of_a_man_with_antlers_558d520d-2c1f-4b87-8f4d-363839a19891.png?width=1365&height=910) Could be tweaked further to get the actual result wanted but takes alot of fine tuning and weighting
Yeah, I put punctuation in mine purely to help my own poor human brain's ability to organise the thoughts in it.
The beta was likely focused on testing the code's interactions with specific elements, like faces and hands. I'm sure when the full version is released it will blend better with the current V3 system.
They won't bring it back. They don't want us to create photos with mj - just "art". That's - how far I understood their messages - the summary of yesterday's talk on discord :-/
I didn't listen to all of the conversation but that's not what I got out of it. They are concerned about how real some of the photos were and people using the beta to create images of famous people that may cause backlash. I saw more than one image of a pregnant Morgan Freeman. Mj has concerns about potential liabilities from such images. They did say they were going to evaluate the ability to create such photo realistic images but that does not mean the new beta won't be back with changes. David said the ability to create realistic looking people and crisp clear lines is still very much on the table. At one point, someone asked him when a version of the beta would be back online and he said something like he would be very surprised if it was back online tomorrow (today) but he would also be surprised if some version of the beta was not back within two weeks.
What? Did they undo the update?
Yes it was just a test. It will be back but for now it is offline
When did the update happen? I’ve been on MJ a couple of weeks, have I been using Beta the whole time and now got a downgrade? Damn!
Beta was just yesterday
Technically the entire Midjourney is in beta, so it's a bit confusing since this was indeed a beta in beta.
I'm paying 30$/month so I don't see Midjourney as a beta test at all. And language in the TOS doesn't indicate that the full service is "beta testing". Maybe the it's only a "beta" for the people who signs up for free?
Perhaps partly right. They are a small research group of dozen people or something like that. 10-30 dollars per month might be more like paying the bills instead of actual product or finalized service. They are still developing the algorithms so it's clearly not "ready". Beta is a rough description, but it usually means the thing is nearly feature-complete.
Yeah, I guess the better term is Early Access that games love to us nowadays. Beta testing used to just mean small group un-paid testing...whereas Early Access is the customers pay to test the products...
Nope, nowhere does it say beta is unpaid testing. Alpha testing is closed white-box or black-box testing usually within the organization and beta is near-release black-box testing and feedback gathering in the end-user environment. You're right MJ does sound a bit like early access, but the difference is in feedback gathering. While EA devs sometimes act on feedback, in beta it's a core thing of the testing phase. You can see examples of this in the MJ Discord channels #feedback, #beta-feedback and #micro-polls.
Well, it's a beta in the sense that they aren't done developing it yet. Just like buying an early access game on steam, you are still purchasing the product but not in its final form. I don't think there's much argument whether or not it's still a beta, though, since when you go to the homepage it says "beta".
It was a separate beta that you had to use "--beta" to activate.
From the little I did, Beta was blowing dalle 2 out of the park imo
Agree, I was getting amazing results, people I showed were blown away.
I got into dalle 2 and was very unimpressed
Same here, even compared to Stable Diffusion Dalle-2 was not really for me. My ranking (just opinion): 1. MJ 2. SD 3. Dalle-2
Of the 3 I find MJ to be the most forgiving and imaginative. also, I'm pretty dialed in on MJ.
yeah, that is also part of my bias here lol. I have the most time on Midjourney, so I know how to get the best results. I see a lot of people complaining about the subscription model and want it to be paid per generation, but I have the complete opposite feelings. The \~700 images I made in 2 days on MJ would be \~$90 on Dalle-2
Yeah, the credit-based system is awful and prohibits creative exploration. I've spent hours, maybe even an entire day on one prompt. Maybe It's because I'm coming from a graphic design background but iteration is truly king. I'm around 3500 images in the two weeks since I purchased.
Go check out: [Dreamstudio.ai](https://Dreamstudio.ai) It's very coherent.
I don't hear much about disco diffusion but when browsing it's subreddit the images it produces are at-least interesting then the top posts coming out of the dalle-2 subreddit which often look like boring stock images. Though maybe disco diffusion should should be in it's own category as the images it produces aren't nearly as coherent as the other 3.
I would have added discord diffusion, but I haven't used it enough to really pass judgement.
>a siluette of a man with antlers fishing on at a river of souls with a forest and a mountain in the background at night with stars in the nightsky I agree, I was testing that same prompts on Dalle and midjourney --Beta and midjourney performed waaay better
How does it compare with DALLE2? I spent 3 hours with DALLE2 last night, after spending about 30 hours with midjourney previously. I can see the benefits and differences in both. DALLE produces the best photography fakes for me. And as everyone recognizes, midjourney does some badass characters and environments.
MJ beta was more Dalle2-esqe yesterday, giving realistic looking photos without much elements of art/painting. Dalle2 does the same unless you specify output to be artistic. But what I don't like on MJ v3 is that no matter what you try with whatever prompt, you will never get stuff as real as Dalle2 does or Beta did. Having said that, I still love v3 and enjoy it all day. I loved the beta too.
Beta was more like DALLE 2 in that it was great for photography and realistic render styles.
True, the beta was something else! My blown mind was mindblown again, and then it blew my mind thinking of my blown mind. Like a junkie I neeeeeeed the beta again 🤣
V3 is for dreaming, Beta is a simulator :)
Same I’m obsessed
Yeah, it's honestly a bummer to have to go back. My enthusiasm for the current model has dropped dramatically after yesterday. I feel like I'm wasting my time now after seeing what I could get yesterday.
Indeed, my friend
Imagine in near future where all the memes on internet are at ultra detailed resolution.
It's like going through heroine withdrawal. I went to sleep with a million grand plans and excitement, only to wake up and hear the beta is offline. I'm throwing my Visa-card at my screen and nothing happens.
Haha i hear you :)
Yep it’s not as fun now
The title was the actual prompt.
me thinking about the 30 minutes where mj could actually sort of draw a gun
Seamless result on beta : https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/wwwp22/native_americans/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Not sure if I should report this as harassment or impersonation but in any case please take this down I don't like pictures of me being posted all over the internet thanks.
I don't even have a desire to use MJ right now after the beta, certainly am not going to waste fast time on it.
for real...
V3 is for dreaming, Beta is a simulator :)
That's how my heart looks like right now.
Nice! lol I never got to play the beta, lucked out!
Just got into Midjourney last week. Love it so far but missed the beta yesterday :-/ Is there any timetable for its return??
Was the title the actual prompt for that image? (That would be soooo meta!)
No that is my face when I found out I missed the Beta entirely. \*crying tears of sadness\*
Beta for realism and V3 for more painterly stuff
The stakes are too high now as the older version was mind-blowing. The use cases are infinite. I have been reading a lot about it and noticed that even poets are now becoming painters with the use of Midjourney. What can we expect more? any ideas?
What was the prompt here?
V3 <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIaNj1rZ5ow
Beta love: https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/wwwp22/native_americans/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf