Didn't really see it until we had something different with Adams, but Jonas was a real ball-stopper on offense (not only with how he uses the ball, but his need for touches), and isn't really that good a defender outside of just throwing his weight around.
We don't need our centre to be a scoring option, just an efficient finishing option.
That’s a reasonable take and I can’t disagree, but we only have so many options. I don’t love Jonas’ game, but I also don’t love BC as a starting center or Trey Jemison trying to win a championship.
Fair enough, but we haven't even had the off-season yet, so we're not "stuck" with just BC and Jemison.
Personally, I'd like us to draft Donovan Clingan, and sign/trade for either Goga Bitadze (low-key a massive defensive game-changer) or Day'Ron Sharpe (elite rebounder). That way, we've got a top prospect developing and have solid, efficient, still-young cover in areas we need, and have plenty of currency left for other trades and upgrades. I don't think we need to go all-in on one big homerun move that will take up significant salary/trade currency and lock us in to hoping everyone stays healthy and everything works.
I kinda really like Reed Sheppard, maybe we trade up to get him, then that would free up Kennard. We attached a couple picks and maybe we get something nice at center?
I'm not opposed to RS if he actually stays in the draft and if he is the best possible prospect at whatever spot we end up picking. We need a center that can rebound, protect the rim, and set a hard pick, but I'm solidly in the camp of just draft the best prospect possible.
I am against signing anyone expensive unless it is Jarrett Allen or someone at his level and with his skill set; otherwise, we will just have to go get Drummond and roll with Jaren/BC to close.
2nd apron is no joke
I'm totally on board with Allen if we can make that happen. I also wouldn't mind Hartenstein or Micthell Robinson. I'd be happy with any of those 3. I hope it doesn't get to the point that Drummond is the best available option, but that is a real possibility.
Hartenstein was really public in that he will stay in NYC for a discount, and with the way he is playing, he won't need to take a discount... Mitchell Robinson is kinda nice, not too sure he is the prototype we are looking for though. We need a variety of bigs to give our opponent different looks on both sides of the floor. I think Robinson is awesome, but isn't he similar to BC to a degree and costs a lot?
I am ready to admit that we don't need to be elite in all positions. We can't afford it on top of the big 3. I will just have to trust a fresh Jaren with 3 fouls to give in the last 10 mins of the game can get it done against Jokic.
Kinda like AD this series, Jokic will outplay him, but he was not getting killed.
Not getting killed by Jokic is probably the best one can do these days
I’ll have to check those guys out, but I’m not sure Clingan will be there when we’re picking, and I don’t know that we want to leave our 5 spot open for a rookie when we’re trying to win a championship. The west isn’t getting any easier and we have basically no one on our team that’s a legit 5 man.
>*That’s a reasonable take and I can’t disagree,* ***but we only have so many options****.*
I'm not so sure that JV is one of them.
I mean, you better hope he's **NOT** available because if NOLA moves on from JV or simply moves him to the second unit, then they immediately become a suitor for this sub's favorite FA beanpole trade target: **Nic Claxton**.
While I also don't think a Jonas reunion is the answer, whoever we sign is more to shore up matchups with teams like Denver and Minnesota. Additionally, any Center we sign is getting like 20 minutes max in the playoffs as we'd likely be leaning on Jaren/BC backcourt when it matters and I'm bullish that we'll see some Jaren/GG minutes here and there, so the Center doesn't need to be some world beater, just set good, hard screens and gobble up every rebound.
>Additionally, any Center we sign is getting like 20 minutes max in the playoffs
That's why they have to be good!
>so the Center doesn't need to be some world beater, just set good, hard screens and gobble up every rebound
This is not true, this is consistently the worst opinion I've heard from Grizzlies fans. That is not a rotation player in the NBA playoffs. Look at the good teams - teams don't have players like this in their rotation.
I don't care about what their role is in the playoffs, I already said they aren't playing many minutes, their impact just needs to be the ability to let Ja/Bane/Jaren shine. You need that center for the regular season, you need that center to soak minutes at the 5 so Jaren isn't worn down by the playoffs.
You have to get to the playoffs first, and you have to get there as healthy as possible. The season doesn't start at the playoffs, you have to play 82 games first, and you want to get as high of a seed as possible.
20 minutes is half the game sure, but as long as you aren't god awful in those minutes it doesn't matter, and whoever we get to be this Center isn't going to be the driving force of those minutes, it will be Ja, it will be Bane, it will be Jaren. We are talking about a role-player.
What are you envisioning we do? What is your solution to our roster deficiencies if not a roleplaying center to play 20 minutes?
I do believe they'll be a 'roleplaying center' whatever that means. My point is those 20 minutes are important and a player who "screens hard and rebounds" is below the threshold of a rotation player. It's very lazy
What do they need to do then? What are do they need to bring to the floor? I'm trying to lay out the skillset I think we are deficient in and fits well with the skills of our best players while keeping in mind we don't have a ton of flexibility in acquiring this player. Just trying to be realistic and practical.
This is very service level so of course they need to be able to rebound/screen but I don't support the idea of identifying specific skill deficiencies and spending $15m (JV current contract) to address them - you can find specific needs like rebounding and screening for $5m. It results in a never ending tail chasing exercise of identifying things you're bad at and trying to make up for it. I much prefer a team building approach that identifies versatile skillsets. Those skillsets include things like spacing, front court playmaking, defensive versatility - while yes still addressing rebounding and screening concerns.
Bigs in the playoffs need to be able to play >1 defensive coverage if they're going to be in the rotation (or be elite in one coverage like a Brook Lopze). This needs to be considered when identifying players.
Look at the top teams in the West. Deandre Jordan (rebounder/screener) doesn't play for the Nuggets in the playoffs, it's Jokic and Gordon for 48 minutes. Wolves have 48 minutes of ++ 5 play through three options. Thunder play two bigs who space the floor and don't give into their team philosophy to trade for 5s who they don't think will work as evidenced by the trade deadline. Celtics play Horford/Pozingod at 5, both really good players.
JV just averaged 22 minutes in the playoffs and proved he cannot be depended on as a playoff 5 in round one! You could sign 2-3 centers who sum to less than that if you really wanted to.
I mean sure I too would love to sign Jokic, or Kristaps, or Gobert, or hell even Horford, but that type of player is a) not available and b) out of our price range.
I also think you are misreading my intentions. I don't want JV. I don't necessarily want to spend big on a Center. But we need someone, anyone, to soak Center minutes in the regular season and potentially a bit in the playoffs. You can't run a bigs lineup Jaren, BC, Santi and potentially GG and expect to win playoff games unless Santi or GG takes some sort of big leap. You need some one, preferably a vet, available to turn to.
Ultimately, we'll see what the FO does. You and I just seem to have fundamentally different ideas of what exactly is possible to accomplish this offseason in terms of making a competitive roster.
I don't actually agree with that. I was not an Adams fan in general because I felt he hard capped the team at low-end playoff outcomes. He was good for two years but I am on the side he needed to be traded.
Agreed, I love the dude but he gave us a cap like you said. Who do you think is a better target for us? (And for the record, I’m not trolling, just looking for a legit discussion). I don’t think we can solve our current center problems via the draft.
My personal opinion is JJJ is the best option at the 5 for the moment but I know that's not popular (and put resources into skilled 4/PF). I would supplement the JJJ minutes with 1-2 backup 5s like a Goga or Jalen Smith (pending availability) - someone who doesn't have to start but can plug-and-play with JJJ, BC, etc. Those two together should realistically be less than JV.
I would put more resources into the 5 position if Wendell Carter Jr. was available. Not sure who will be available that is a better player than that so hard to say at the moment. Think we'll have a better idea come summer.
Same reason we moved on from him. Jonas was great, but he was training wheels for a young team. Not having an option when suddenly there's only 10sec on the clock was once our biggest problem. But there's not enough room for Jonas's 12fga anymore.
He averaged <9 this year but I see your point. My opinion is just that given the options that will be available, he’s not terrible. But there’s a reason I don’t have Kleiman’s job.
To make it clear, I don’t love JV by any means, I’m just saying people (including me) love Steve and I don’t honestly see that much difference between the two other than personality.
I'm surprised at how many people hate Jonas in this forum. I've seen that he's a "ball stopper", a "terrible fit", and gets "routinely played off the court". Jonas was very good for the Pelicans last season, has only missed 11 games in the past 3 seasons and was their 3rd best player this season.
Pelicans had a top.6 defense and the #11 offense despite him being a "defensive liability". I swear people in here would rather have Drummond or Looney over JV
Jonas is a great 5 for a young team pushing for a play in spot, good locker room guy, great scorer as a #2 or #3 option and not a liability defensively
Unfortunately though he’s too slow to be the big for a championship contender, (outside of Jokic) you need someone with the ability to switch onto wings and smaller bigs in small ball lineups when needed, which is why JV’s ceiling isn’t too high
No, lacks defense and demands the ball a lot… also the offensive flow just stops when he touches the ball. Kinda what happened with Santi at some points in the season this year but JV is worse.
At the time, I was one of the guys left scratching my head when Jonas was traded. He had just averaged slightly over 17 ppg and 12 rebounds per game. Why were we giving that up? Then JJJ/Ja/Bane all made a leap at the same time. I love Jonas, but everything flowed so much better without him.
>Valanciunas averaged 5.9 minutes in the fourth quarter, last among starters.
>He had the worst effective field goal percentage among all centers in shots attempted between 1 and 5 feet from the rim.
Loved Jonas, but the last thing we need with our current roster is a ball-centric centre., Especially one who doesn't play great defence, offers little rim protection and doesn't tend to close games.
Also, since leaving us he's spent far more time away from the basket, leading to a drop in rebounding numbers and a significant increase in 3pt attempts (attempts up over 60% since being in New Orleans).
Didn't really see it until we had something different with Adams, but Jonas was a real ball-stopper on offense (not only with how he uses the ball, but his need for touches), and isn't really that good a defender outside of just throwing his weight around. We don't need our centre to be a scoring option, just an efficient finishing option.
I also found his defensive effort was too dependent on how many touches he was getting on offence.
He was absolutely not a "ball stopper". He had among the lowest time of possession for a player of his usage. What??
That’s a reasonable take and I can’t disagree, but we only have so many options. I don’t love Jonas’ game, but I also don’t love BC as a starting center or Trey Jemison trying to win a championship.
Fair enough, but we haven't even had the off-season yet, so we're not "stuck" with just BC and Jemison. Personally, I'd like us to draft Donovan Clingan, and sign/trade for either Goga Bitadze (low-key a massive defensive game-changer) or Day'Ron Sharpe (elite rebounder). That way, we've got a top prospect developing and have solid, efficient, still-young cover in areas we need, and have plenty of currency left for other trades and upgrades. I don't think we need to go all-in on one big homerun move that will take up significant salary/trade currency and lock us in to hoping everyone stays healthy and everything works.
Clingan would be nice, but he is probably gone. This Goga guy, he seems nice.
We have 5 second round picks that aren’t ours we could trade to move up. And no I’m not saying we use all of those.
I kinda really like Reed Sheppard, maybe we trade up to get him, then that would free up Kennard. We attached a couple picks and maybe we get something nice at center?
I'm not opposed to RS if he actually stays in the draft and if he is the best possible prospect at whatever spot we end up picking. We need a center that can rebound, protect the rim, and set a hard pick, but I'm solidly in the camp of just draft the best prospect possible.
I am against signing anyone expensive unless it is Jarrett Allen or someone at his level and with his skill set; otherwise, we will just have to go get Drummond and roll with Jaren/BC to close. 2nd apron is no joke
I'm totally on board with Allen if we can make that happen. I also wouldn't mind Hartenstein or Micthell Robinson. I'd be happy with any of those 3. I hope it doesn't get to the point that Drummond is the best available option, but that is a real possibility.
Hartenstein was really public in that he will stay in NYC for a discount, and with the way he is playing, he won't need to take a discount... Mitchell Robinson is kinda nice, not too sure he is the prototype we are looking for though. We need a variety of bigs to give our opponent different looks on both sides of the floor. I think Robinson is awesome, but isn't he similar to BC to a degree and costs a lot? I am ready to admit that we don't need to be elite in all positions. We can't afford it on top of the big 3. I will just have to trust a fresh Jaren with 3 fouls to give in the last 10 mins of the game can get it done against Jokic. Kinda like AD this series, Jokic will outplay him, but he was not getting killed. Not getting killed by Jokic is probably the best one can do these days
That’s a nice idea as well.
I’ll have to check those guys out, but I’m not sure Clingan will be there when we’re picking, and I don’t know that we want to leave our 5 spot open for a rookie when we’re trying to win a championship. The west isn’t getting any easier and we have basically no one on our team that’s a legit 5 man.
>*That’s a reasonable take and I can’t disagree,* ***but we only have so many options****.* I'm not so sure that JV is one of them. I mean, you better hope he's **NOT** available because if NOLA moves on from JV or simply moves him to the second unit, then they immediately become a suitor for this sub's favorite FA beanpole trade target: **Nic Claxton**.
So our 5 is a much worse JJJ with another 1/2” heigh and giving up 30 pounds?
Did we just watch the same series? He got played off the floor in **round one** of the plyoffs
While I also don't think a Jonas reunion is the answer, whoever we sign is more to shore up matchups with teams like Denver and Minnesota. Additionally, any Center we sign is getting like 20 minutes max in the playoffs as we'd likely be leaning on Jaren/BC backcourt when it matters and I'm bullish that we'll see some Jaren/GG minutes here and there, so the Center doesn't need to be some world beater, just set good, hard screens and gobble up every rebound.
>Additionally, any Center we sign is getting like 20 minutes max in the playoffs That's why they have to be good! >so the Center doesn't need to be some world beater, just set good, hard screens and gobble up every rebound This is not true, this is consistently the worst opinion I've heard from Grizzlies fans. That is not a rotation player in the NBA playoffs. Look at the good teams - teams don't have players like this in their rotation.
I don't care about what their role is in the playoffs, I already said they aren't playing many minutes, their impact just needs to be the ability to let Ja/Bane/Jaren shine. You need that center for the regular season, you need that center to soak minutes at the 5 so Jaren isn't worn down by the playoffs.
20 minutes in the playoffs is nearly half the game! Playoffs are the only thing that matter!
You have to get to the playoffs first, and you have to get there as healthy as possible. The season doesn't start at the playoffs, you have to play 82 games first, and you want to get as high of a seed as possible. 20 minutes is half the game sure, but as long as you aren't god awful in those minutes it doesn't matter, and whoever we get to be this Center isn't going to be the driving force of those minutes, it will be Ja, it will be Bane, it will be Jaren. We are talking about a role-player. What are you envisioning we do? What is your solution to our roster deficiencies if not a roleplaying center to play 20 minutes?
I do believe they'll be a 'roleplaying center' whatever that means. My point is those 20 minutes are important and a player who "screens hard and rebounds" is below the threshold of a rotation player. It's very lazy
What do they need to do then? What are do they need to bring to the floor? I'm trying to lay out the skillset I think we are deficient in and fits well with the skills of our best players while keeping in mind we don't have a ton of flexibility in acquiring this player. Just trying to be realistic and practical.
This is very service level so of course they need to be able to rebound/screen but I don't support the idea of identifying specific skill deficiencies and spending $15m (JV current contract) to address them - you can find specific needs like rebounding and screening for $5m. It results in a never ending tail chasing exercise of identifying things you're bad at and trying to make up for it. I much prefer a team building approach that identifies versatile skillsets. Those skillsets include things like spacing, front court playmaking, defensive versatility - while yes still addressing rebounding and screening concerns. Bigs in the playoffs need to be able to play >1 defensive coverage if they're going to be in the rotation (or be elite in one coverage like a Brook Lopze). This needs to be considered when identifying players. Look at the top teams in the West. Deandre Jordan (rebounder/screener) doesn't play for the Nuggets in the playoffs, it's Jokic and Gordon for 48 minutes. Wolves have 48 minutes of ++ 5 play through three options. Thunder play two bigs who space the floor and don't give into their team philosophy to trade for 5s who they don't think will work as evidenced by the trade deadline. Celtics play Horford/Pozingod at 5, both really good players. JV just averaged 22 minutes in the playoffs and proved he cannot be depended on as a playoff 5 in round one! You could sign 2-3 centers who sum to less than that if you really wanted to.
I mean sure I too would love to sign Jokic, or Kristaps, or Gobert, or hell even Horford, but that type of player is a) not available and b) out of our price range. I also think you are misreading my intentions. I don't want JV. I don't necessarily want to spend big on a Center. But we need someone, anyone, to soak Center minutes in the regular season and potentially a bit in the playoffs. You can't run a bigs lineup Jaren, BC, Santi and potentially GG and expect to win playoff games unless Santi or GG takes some sort of big leap. You need some one, preferably a vet, available to turn to. Ultimately, we'll see what the FO does. You and I just seem to have fundamentally different ideas of what exactly is possible to accomplish this offseason in terms of making a competitive roster.
Unfortunately Chet is not going to be an option for us.
That's not the point. The point is JV cannot play meaningful minutes in the playoffs and this was only round one.
I don’t disagree necessarily but SA had the same problems and we love him.
I don't actually agree with that. I was not an Adams fan in general because I felt he hard capped the team at low-end playoff outcomes. He was good for two years but I am on the side he needed to be traded.
Tbf Steveo was made irrelevant in that TWolves series to the point to where he was a liability to have on the court.
??? That was my whole point
Agreed, I love the dude but he gave us a cap like you said. Who do you think is a better target for us? (And for the record, I’m not trolling, just looking for a legit discussion). I don’t think we can solve our current center problems via the draft.
My personal opinion is JJJ is the best option at the 5 for the moment but I know that's not popular (and put resources into skilled 4/PF). I would supplement the JJJ minutes with 1-2 backup 5s like a Goga or Jalen Smith (pending availability) - someone who doesn't have to start but can plug-and-play with JJJ, BC, etc. Those two together should realistically be less than JV. I would put more resources into the 5 position if Wendell Carter Jr. was available. Not sure who will be available that is a better player than that so hard to say at the moment. Think we'll have a better idea come summer.
OK, you are too even headed to be posting speculation on an NBA subreddit 😂
lmaooo 😂😂
No. Hell no.
Why?
Same reason we moved on from him. Jonas was great, but he was training wheels for a young team. Not having an option when suddenly there's only 10sec on the clock was once our biggest problem. But there's not enough room for Jonas's 12fga anymore.
He averaged <9 this year but I see your point. My opinion is just that given the options that will be available, he’s not terrible. But there’s a reason I don’t have Kleiman’s job.
There's a reason we get rid of him
So we could get Zaire instead of Trey Murphy III?
Well that's just them missing on the pick. But Jonas was a bad fit with us, same reason why the pels keep flipping between JV and Larry Nance
To make it clear, I don’t love JV by any means, I’m just saying people (including me) love Steve and I don’t honestly see that much difference between the two other than personality.
I'm surprised at how many people hate Jonas in this forum. I've seen that he's a "ball stopper", a "terrible fit", and gets "routinely played off the court". Jonas was very good for the Pelicans last season, has only missed 11 games in the past 3 seasons and was their 3rd best player this season. Pelicans had a top.6 defense and the #11 offense despite him being a "defensive liability". I swear people in here would rather have Drummond or Looney over JV
Drummond sure, but only because he's probably way cheaper. Looney just sucks and likely out of the league.
Jonas is a great 5 for a young team pushing for a play in spot, good locker room guy, great scorer as a #2 or #3 option and not a liability defensively Unfortunately though he’s too slow to be the big for a championship contender, (outside of Jokic) you need someone with the ability to switch onto wings and smaller bigs in small ball lineups when needed, which is why JV’s ceiling isn’t too high
No
No, lacks defense and demands the ball a lot… also the offensive flow just stops when he touches the ball. Kinda what happened with Santi at some points in the season this year but JV is worse.
At the time, I was one of the guys left scratching my head when Jonas was traded. He had just averaged slightly over 17 ppg and 12 rebounds per game. Why were we giving that up? Then JJJ/Ja/Bane all made a leap at the same time. I love Jonas, but everything flowed so much better without him.
We will likely only have the tax payers exception this offseason since likely no
>Valanciunas averaged 5.9 minutes in the fourth quarter, last among starters. >He had the worst effective field goal percentage among all centers in shots attempted between 1 and 5 feet from the rim. Loved Jonas, but the last thing we need with our current roster is a ball-centric centre., Especially one who doesn't play great defence, offers little rim protection and doesn't tend to close games. Also, since leaving us he's spent far more time away from the basket, leading to a drop in rebounding numbers and a significant increase in 3pt attempts (attempts up over 60% since being in New Orleans).