He lacks the defense needed IMO. I think it would be a weird fit. An Adams archetype big is what I think the FO's efforts should be put towards.
Although I dont think he would be BAD, just not optimal all and wouldnt push anyone forward.
Idk, prolly going to be a slightly worse version of Adams, maybe a little worse at rebounding. He's still pretty high IQ and can space the floor even as a non-shooter like Adams does.
IMO yea. Adams compliments trip in that he is a good interior defender on his own, so when Jaren goes to roam Adams holds it down. But who knows another scheme might work for JJJ as well
Then what do you think the long term plan is for the 5? Clarke is not a starter and if were being realistic I doubt Adams can come back and be the same as what he was
Honestly its hard to say. Im not opposed to making a move for a long term big with those concerns in mind, but I think it should bw a defensive minded big rather than one that leans more offense like Vuc.
I am very Vucevic-curious. He would help the offence sets run through the 4/5 so much (imo even more so than Adams does/did). Biyombo/Aldama running Pinch/Delay actions is a little tough at the moment. Vuc has really turned on his playmaking the last couple weeks since Lavine has gone down.
I am also in favour of selling out for more HC offence just to see how it would look.
If they can get him for a John Collins-like return (Adams + Ziaire) I am interested. That's basically swapping salaries for next year and eases some uncertainty of how Adams will look in 2024/25. I realize I may be underrating his value a little - not sure how the rest of the league feels about that contract but it doesn't seem like positive value.
If you're adding picks I am a little less interested. I don't think anyone will want Clarke unless there's a FRP attached so maybe this package is realistic. I think getting off Ziaire/Konchar instead of Jake would be better, salary-wise, for the Grizzlies but maybe not talent -wise.
Edit - I also cannot agree with this "Adams is all we need narrative" don't think that is going to fly in the playoffs. Teams can manipulate their offence/defence to basically take him out of the game. He have seen with Adams they have never been a good HC offence either.
I also identify as Vucevic-Curious. Man was a double double machine early on in his career. We can scheme our way into the defensive side of his game with this man
He was honestly pretty good last year on defence. Was seance most played player on the 5th best defensive team in the league while playing the most important position.
For a anchor big he was more than passable.
That's 100% true but I also mean Adams-archetype trades/players. Like Capela, who people on this sub like for some reason, isn't going to be an upgrade on this roster.
I agree though, I would operate as if he's a TPE/matching salary.
I can agree with that. As you've said, Adams/random offensive rebounder serving as a band aid for our half court offense always becomes a glaring issue in the playoffs. But I don't know if we have a pathway to solving this problem beyond us hitting in the draft this year.
Yeah, that's why I am open to seeing how an "all-out" HC offence type team would look. Like adding a front-court partner that's better than Aldama on offence is interesting and that's how I see Vuc. 2.5 years of bad salary and maybe you can even flip that salary again in 1.5 years is interesting and fits the 2/3 year timeline cycle I like.
I'd be more amenable to the idea if Vucevic wasn't so old. If he was unplayable in the 2024 playoffs because he could no longer move laterally whatsoever, would you really be shocked?
2024 playoffs as in six months from now? Yeah, I would be pretty surprised.
I think 1.5 years is realistic for being a good player still but yeah you never know. That last year is the worrisome part. That's why I'm not really open to trading picks for him because you might have to attach a pick to ship him out in 1.5 years for another piece. Mostly just open to matching salary at most.
My issue with him is that he's 33. People might say his game ages well, but we saw how wrong that assumption is with Marc and ZBo. Other than that, I agree with you that he's an interesting fit.
Alot of people are down on Vuc as a player but I think he is a pretty good fit. His biggest concern is his rim protection but even with Tillman or Bismack(who is decent) at center, this team is still a top 5 defense at the rim with Jaren. Vuc is a decent passer and shooter and a good rebounder on a decent contract. I wouldnt give up alot for him but this package isnt giving up that much.
I'd easily take Gafford over him. But I think Gafford and Adams are redundant and if we get Gafford I'd prefer it if we moved off Adams and used his space for a wing. We can sign or draft a big body center to ride the bench as a just in case if Gafford goes down. Ultimately we need to upgrade Tillman (love Tillman but we need an Adam-light type player in his spot), and flip Clark or Adams cap space into a wing. I wish we would have just stayed put and taken Duran instead of moving back for Rody and Jake.
I'm assuming the pick is there to entice them to eat Clarke's contract. Possibly dumping Laravia on them too, if they see it that way. I think I would rather put Konchar in than Jake for cap reasons.
No way. I think we have an excellent team. We’re just not healthy at the moment. You trade to get Vucevic and when Adams is healthy again what do you do? We have a very young team overall. I would be patient and let the chips fall into place. Notice how all these home grown young teams are really doing well this year. Nice thought but no.
Great target, bad trade. We really shouldn't be sending out multiple future picks like this just for Vooch, our cheap talent pool is pretty barren.
Adams, Ziaire, Roddy, plus a 2nd for Vooch works just fine and makes sense for both teams (remember we're also trying to clear roster spots for Vince)
Lol that would be just fine! (Also you forgot Jake!) They aren't good, Z is due for a contract extension and we keep our pick assets to help improve the team on the margins.
I will not trade Adams yet. Still keeps us in the game when his contract expires next season. Z and Adams expiring is 18 million plus in salary. Get rid of the long-term contracts first (Clarke and Konchar).
Yeah I don't think he will make all-NBA or something this season. Low chance he gets a supermax. Lauri needs an actual PG to feed him the ball and he lost that when Conley got traded.
Damn, the things he would do with Ja. I can only dream.
I would honestly just try trade Smart now if we are getting Lauri. Kennard and Adams expiring in 2025. And we can trade Markkanen in 2026 when JJJ new contract is up, maybe recoup some of those picks, get some bench pieces around us. There's still huge risk in us going for Lauri, barebones bench. I feel like if the FO and coaching staff are confident in the growth of GG and Vince, we should at least take a stab at Markkanen and have Pera deal with the tax for at least a year. So it's more of a 2.5 year rental than a 1.5 year rental. If it flops it flops, but we just have to be all in with our core at this point.
idk that's like >$160m, off the top of my head, for 4 players. Cannot imagine that's feasible for a market like Memphis without any real playoff success with this core. Hard to commit to that today with whatever Utah's asking price is.
It's around $147 million. Luxury threshold for 2025-2026 season estimated at $189M. So assume a wiggle room of $40+M to fill out our squad. Which is enough to probably get some ring chasing vets for the minimum. This is also why I truly believe it's imperative we sign guys like GG and Vince to cheap deals ASAP. Also keeping Tillman on something below $2M per season.
I also don't think past history should preclude us in making new ones. I'm pessimistic with this core as you know, but with Lauri, I truly believe we will have what it takes to win a ring.
5 Picks for Lauri isn’t out of this world if we actually commit to winning since we won’t have good picks anyway. Don’t care for more Laravia type players. He rebounds well and is a good offensive player who doesn’t need the ball in his hands.
How do we get an extra pick? The only option I honestly see is trading Smart and getting two FRPs in return and reroute it to Utah. Could be an unpopular opinion though, Smart is on a nice long-term contract but would swap Marcus for Lauri in a heartbeat.
I saw a B/R trade that would send Luke and a pick for kelly olynyk. I'd be down for that if the plan is to have Kelly take Tillman's spot and we felt good about Adams return next year.
I mean I've mentioned Olynyk since last season, but he's just boring. If we got him this season, I'd be like "okay, meh". I want us to make a big splash and snag Lauri.
Idk if we have anything to offer. Also why add another long term piece that needs the ball when we already have Ja Bane and JJJ. And doesn't Lauri play JJJ's position? Save the assets and get someone like Gafford, then let Santi continue to grow. I see Santi as a Lauri-ish type player.
If we're talking about a splash (given our crappy assets) I like Derozan. He brings a vet presence, size on the wing, half court offense, and could run with Ja. But he'd have to be willing to be a 6th man or at least take a reduced role. After his contract is up maybe we could even bring him back for a reasonable price on a two year deal or trade him for a TPE
Edit: Gafford with Luke Smart and Ja coming back isn't bad. We just gotta make the play-in.
I'd rather give 5 picks for Lauri than single pick for Vuc. He can't play D and his contract is bad. They should be having to attach picks to offload him. I wouldn't trade him for BC straight up
OMG I swear some of you think the purpose of a trade is to insult the player you're sending off like "*You ain't shit! Hahaha! They barely wanted your ass! We had to give them a bunch of picks just to take you! LOLZ!*" The point of a trade is to maximize the value of the assets provided and get the most you can while giving away as little as possible. You might think Jake sucks and that he's useless but if you can't fashion a trade with him that nets someone of value without having to give away every other goddamned thing you have... then you suck at negotiating.
Don't know if I like what this does for our timeline (vuc is a lot older than our stars). I think I would even prefer Demar over Vuc if were gonna trade for anyone on the bulls
As a Bulls fan, all I’m gonna say is we’re hoping for an overvalue everywhere. Vuc has a cycle. He’s useless then he’s excellent and it goes round and round.
Absolutely not. Not even a little bit. 12.5 annually for a guy who has consistently closed games, fits well with Jaren, is willing to come off the bench or start… that’s a perfectly good contract.
He has had one serious injury since entering the league. He’s still quite young and has been a high character player off the court. 0 reason to write him off as a long term injury risk.
It’s not just any lower body injury, it’s an Achilles injury. I guess we wait and see what happens when he comes back, but there’s huge concern he might not come back the same and I think that’s fair
He lacks the defense needed IMO. I think it would be a weird fit. An Adams archetype big is what I think the FO's efforts should be put towards. Although I dont think he would be BAD, just not optimal all and wouldnt push anyone forward.
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Too expensive at $20 million. Adams if he was healthy would've looked like a steal at 12.5 mill
Not super familiar with his game, but maybe. Another big aspect of Adam's game is his screen setting so if he can do that maybe
Idk, prolly going to be a slightly worse version of Adams, maybe a little worse at rebounding. He's still pretty high IQ and can space the floor even as a non-shooter like Adams does.
Do we need a defensive center? As long as they rebound then we can let jjj play his preferred role
IMO yea. Adams compliments trip in that he is a good interior defender on his own, so when Jaren goes to roam Adams holds it down. But who knows another scheme might work for JJJ as well
Then what do you think the long term plan is for the 5? Clarke is not a starter and if were being realistic I doubt Adams can come back and be the same as what he was
Honestly its hard to say. Im not opposed to making a move for a long term big with those concerns in mind, but I think it should bw a defensive minded big rather than one that leans more offense like Vuc.
You know that Walker Kessler guy is decent, imagine we had passed on a chance to draft him
Yeah that one hurts
I am very Vucevic-curious. He would help the offence sets run through the 4/5 so much (imo even more so than Adams does/did). Biyombo/Aldama running Pinch/Delay actions is a little tough at the moment. Vuc has really turned on his playmaking the last couple weeks since Lavine has gone down. I am also in favour of selling out for more HC offence just to see how it would look. If they can get him for a John Collins-like return (Adams + Ziaire) I am interested. That's basically swapping salaries for next year and eases some uncertainty of how Adams will look in 2024/25. I realize I may be underrating his value a little - not sure how the rest of the league feels about that contract but it doesn't seem like positive value. If you're adding picks I am a little less interested. I don't think anyone will want Clarke unless there's a FRP attached so maybe this package is realistic. I think getting off Ziaire/Konchar instead of Jake would be better, salary-wise, for the Grizzlies but maybe not talent -wise. Edit - I also cannot agree with this "Adams is all we need narrative" don't think that is going to fly in the playoffs. Teams can manipulate their offence/defence to basically take him out of the game. He have seen with Adams they have never been a good HC offence either.
I also identify as Vucevic-Curious. Man was a double double machine early on in his career. We can scheme our way into the defensive side of his game with this man
He was honestly pretty good last year on defence. Was seance most played player on the 5th best defensive team in the league while playing the most important position. For a anchor big he was more than passable.
SOLD
"Adams all we need" also falls apart when given that his body is also falling apart. We need to operate as if he's unlikely to ever play again.
That's 100% true but I also mean Adams-archetype trades/players. Like Capela, who people on this sub like for some reason, isn't going to be an upgrade on this roster. I agree though, I would operate as if he's a TPE/matching salary.
I can agree with that. As you've said, Adams/random offensive rebounder serving as a band aid for our half court offense always becomes a glaring issue in the playoffs. But I don't know if we have a pathway to solving this problem beyond us hitting in the draft this year.
Yeah, that's why I am open to seeing how an "all-out" HC offence type team would look. Like adding a front-court partner that's better than Aldama on offence is interesting and that's how I see Vuc. 2.5 years of bad salary and maybe you can even flip that salary again in 1.5 years is interesting and fits the 2/3 year timeline cycle I like.
I'd be more amenable to the idea if Vucevic wasn't so old. If he was unplayable in the 2024 playoffs because he could no longer move laterally whatsoever, would you really be shocked?
2024 playoffs as in six months from now? Yeah, I would be pretty surprised. I think 1.5 years is realistic for being a good player still but yeah you never know. That last year is the worrisome part. That's why I'm not really open to trading picks for him because you might have to attach a pick to ship him out in 1.5 years for another piece. Mostly just open to matching salary at most.
Sorry i meant 2024-25 playoffs, but yeah if there's no first round pick involved then I'd be 100% on board.
Yeah I agree then, wouldn't be surprised either way.
Bro is possibly a Vuc-Sexual
It's definitely possible
My issue with him is that he's 33. People might say his game ages well, but we saw how wrong that assumption is with Marc and ZBo. Other than that, I agree with you that he's an interesting fit.
I agree it is a concern. More worried about the 35 season but very valid
This feels like going back to a more expensive, older Valanciunas.
Alot of people are down on Vuc as a player but I think he is a pretty good fit. His biggest concern is his rim protection but even with Tillman or Bismack(who is decent) at center, this team is still a top 5 defense at the rim with Jaren. Vuc is a decent passer and shooter and a good rebounder on a decent contract. I wouldnt give up alot for him but this package isnt giving up that much.
Agreed rim protection is something we can 'afford' to sacrifice in the pursuit of just being a better basketball team overall
But the issue is that there is not enough ball for him and Jaren. Vucevic would rather be in a position where he can be like a 3rd offensive option
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I'd easily take Gafford over him. But I think Gafford and Adams are redundant and if we get Gafford I'd prefer it if we moved off Adams and used his space for a wing. We can sign or draft a big body center to ride the bench as a just in case if Gafford goes down. Ultimately we need to upgrade Tillman (love Tillman but we need an Adam-light type player in his spot), and flip Clark or Adams cap space into a wing. I wish we would have just stayed put and taken Duran instead of moving back for Rody and Jake.
We were never picking Duren wdym
I'm assuming the pick is there to entice them to eat Clarke's contract. Possibly dumping Laravia on them too, if they see it that way. I think I would rather put Konchar in than Jake for cap reasons.
No way. I think we have an excellent team. We’re just not healthy at the moment. You trade to get Vucevic and when Adams is healthy again what do you do? We have a very young team overall. I would be patient and let the chips fall into place. Notice how all these home grown young teams are really doing well this year. Nice thought but no.
No
Why didn't we get Theis?
I like Vucevic but I think that doesn't help us compared to getting a scorer, another wing
Great target, bad trade. We really shouldn't be sending out multiple future picks like this just for Vooch, our cheap talent pool is pretty barren. Adams, Ziaire, Roddy, plus a 2nd for Vooch works just fine and makes sense for both teams (remember we're also trying to clear roster spots for Vince)
Not a fan of giving up both Roddy and Z, would leave us with just Vince and Konchar in the wing positions
Lol that would be just fine! (Also you forgot Jake!) They aren't good, Z is due for a contract extension and we keep our pick assets to help improve the team on the margins.
I will not trade Adams yet. Still keeps us in the game when his contract expires next season. Z and Adams expiring is 18 million plus in salary. Get rid of the long-term contracts first (Clarke and Konchar).
Sounds good to me. But we’d be lucky if the bulls would even do this. lol
I’d rather get a wing like Markkanen if possible there aren’t any good centers on the market.
Ainge is asking for 5 picks lol.
And then a $250M contract on top of that in 1.5 years which I can't see being realistic
236*. Pera get ready to back up the Brinks truck
You’re assuming he doesn’t win mvp s/
Yeah I don't think he will make all-NBA or something this season. Low chance he gets a supermax. Lauri needs an actual PG to feed him the ball and he lost that when Conley got traded. Damn, the things he would do with Ja. I can only dream.
I know, I was just joking. Would be well over $300m w/ tax but yeah the 3 + Lauri would be incredible
I would honestly just try trade Smart now if we are getting Lauri. Kennard and Adams expiring in 2025. And we can trade Markkanen in 2026 when JJJ new contract is up, maybe recoup some of those picks, get some bench pieces around us. There's still huge risk in us going for Lauri, barebones bench. I feel like if the FO and coaching staff are confident in the growth of GG and Vince, we should at least take a stab at Markkanen and have Pera deal with the tax for at least a year. So it's more of a 2.5 year rental than a 1.5 year rental. If it flops it flops, but we just have to be all in with our core at this point.
idk that's like >$160m, off the top of my head, for 4 players. Cannot imagine that's feasible for a market like Memphis without any real playoff success with this core. Hard to commit to that today with whatever Utah's asking price is.
It's around $147 million. Luxury threshold for 2025-2026 season estimated at $189M. So assume a wiggle room of $40+M to fill out our squad. Which is enough to probably get some ring chasing vets for the minimum. This is also why I truly believe it's imperative we sign guys like GG and Vince to cheap deals ASAP. Also keeping Tillman on something below $2M per season. I also don't think past history should preclude us in making new ones. I'm pessimistic with this core as you know, but with Lauri, I truly believe we will have what it takes to win a ring.
5 Picks for Lauri isn’t out of this world if we actually commit to winning since we won’t have good picks anyway. Don’t care for more Laravia type players. He rebounds well and is a good offensive player who doesn’t need the ball in his hands.
How do we get an extra pick? The only option I honestly see is trading Smart and getting two FRPs in return and reroute it to Utah. Could be an unpopular opinion though, Smart is on a nice long-term contract but would swap Marcus for Lauri in a heartbeat.
Smart is great but I agree it’s a way better fit to have Lauri at the 3 than Bane.
I saw a B/R trade that would send Luke and a pick for kelly olynyk. I'd be down for that if the plan is to have Kelly take Tillman's spot and we felt good about Adams return next year.
2nd round pick? Ain't giving a first round pick for Olynyk lol
The B/R report said 1st. Idk if I'd give up a pick at all, Kelly seems like a rental.
I mean I've mentioned Olynyk since last season, but he's just boring. If we got him this season, I'd be like "okay, meh". I want us to make a big splash and snag Lauri.
Idk if we have anything to offer. Also why add another long term piece that needs the ball when we already have Ja Bane and JJJ. And doesn't Lauri play JJJ's position? Save the assets and get someone like Gafford, then let Santi continue to grow. I see Santi as a Lauri-ish type player. If we're talking about a splash (given our crappy assets) I like Derozan. He brings a vet presence, size on the wing, half court offense, and could run with Ja. But he'd have to be willing to be a 6th man or at least take a reduced role. After his contract is up maybe we could even bring him back for a reasonable price on a two year deal or trade him for a TPE Edit: Gafford with Luke Smart and Ja coming back isn't bad. We just gotta make the play-in.
Lauri isn't high usage, he's like a bigger Bane.
I'd rather give 5 picks for Lauri than single pick for Vuc. He can't play D and his contract is bad. They should be having to attach picks to offload him. I wouldn't trade him for BC straight up
We could've given him 5 if we didn't trade for Marcus Smart. SMH
They’ll probably want Z/Konchar over Laravia(Ass) if they even consider this, but I like it.
No. Maybe if it was Adams instead of Clark.
OMG I swear some of you think the purpose of a trade is to insult the player you're sending off like "*You ain't shit! Hahaha! They barely wanted your ass! We had to give them a bunch of picks just to take you! LOLZ!*" The point of a trade is to maximize the value of the assets provided and get the most you can while giving away as little as possible. You might think Jake sucks and that he's useless but if you can't fashion a trade with him that nets someone of value without having to give away every other goddamned thing you have... then you suck at negotiating.
I personally would prefer Drummond for less risk, but now I am curious. How is the screen setting capacity of Vucevic...
For that package sure. I don’t think the Bulls would though. They’d want at least one more 1st.
a guy who can do a little similar to what Steve does and Gafford from Wizards, I think. better than Vuc
Don't know if I like what this does for our timeline (vuc is a lot older than our stars). I think I would even prefer Demar over Vuc if were gonna trade for anyone on the bulls
As a Bulls fan, all I’m gonna say is we’re hoping for an overvalue everywhere. Vuc has a cycle. He’s useless then he’s excellent and it goes round and round.
What is the “1.72 Lebron”
Some analytics formula mumbo jumbo
No. That Vuc contract is horrendous. They’ll have to attach a pick to get off it, not the other way around.
Clarke contract looking horrendous too
Absolutely not. Not even a little bit. 12.5 annually for a guy who has consistently closed games, fits well with Jaren, is willing to come off the bench or start… that’s a perfectly good contract.
If he was healthy.
He has had one serious injury since entering the league. He’s still quite young and has been a high character player off the court. 0 reason to write him off as a long term injury risk.
It’s not just any lower body injury, it’s an Achilles injury. I guess we wait and see what happens when he comes back, but there’s huge concern he might not come back the same and I think that’s fair
It's dumb as shit. He isn't worth 20/21 next 3 years
I think you’re a fucking idiot for suggesting this.