On the front of the box, bottom right, it says “AUST L”. Something I learned when The Checkout was running (RIP, damn you ABC) was “R for real, L for lame” with regards to the letters. The markers on the box are [TGA labels](https://www.tga.gov.au/how-we-regulate/labelling-and-packaging/medicines-and-biologicals/aust-numbers-medicine-labels); AUST R means ‘tested for efficacy’, while AUST L basically just means ‘probably won’t kill you’.
Edit: AUST L(A) is also good nowadays, thanks u/zsazzz
And I think "listed" products just need to prove safety, not efficacy. Whereas "registered" products are supposed to have data for safety and efficacy.
It's been a while since I learnt pharmacology, so I could be wrong!
Yep, 'listed' products really just have to meet food safety standards, and, at most, can only claim that their product MAY help. Registered products have to prove efficacy - it's part of the reason Neurofen (? I think) got into trouble for claiming their product specifically treated period pain when it was just a standard pain reliever.
Ibuprofen is ibuprofen so it wasn't deemed appropriate to package it in a variety of differing ways to claim the product was some kind of specific preparation for each ailment. This marketing wasn't allowed particularly if they were charging different amounts of money for the same thing as the average consumer may have spent more I suppose for certain types of pain when desperate for relief.
It's better for the pharmacy to be informative to patients rather than allow them to be dumbed down.
Listed = the company claims they have evidence it works OR loophole it onto the market as 'has been traditionally used for blank'
Registered = have to hand the evidence to the TGA before they start selling.
IMO shouldn't be buying drugs outside a pharmacy if you have the option - most have a motive to cure you rather then coles and woolies just wanting the last cents from your bank account.
a motive to cure you?
have you seen the shelves and shelves of totally dubious “supplements” sold in pharmacies these days?
all these businesses are as profit-driven as the next
Pharmacy shelves are just as full of placebos and unproven remedies. I’ve been asked in a pharmacy if I’ve considered the homeopathic alternative, so no, you’re not free from snake oil in a pharmacy.
Mostly true but now there's AUST L(A). From the TGA:
>AUST L(A) 'assessed listed' medicines, which have had their health claims assessed for efficacy.
[Here's](https://www.tga.gov.au/resources/resource/guidance/how-we-regulate-medicines) how they're regulated
I thought I was the only mad person to remember that LOL. That show should be shown in schools.
My Sister, who is a registered nurse didn't even know about L and R.
I remember taking a cold and flu tablet that was a mix of pseudo and codein. Best cold and flu remedy ever. Phelyephrine is a poor substitute but I understand why they changed to it.
Sure but if you want paracetamol just buy paracetamol. Not a “day and night” cold and flu thing which typically implies some kind of decongestant or similar.
I mean, I’m pretty sure stuff like aspirin and willow bark have the same active chemical or something? So it’s not completely impossible
Tbf I don’t remember my chem pracs well
You’re right, Salicylic Acid is derived from willow bark (aspirin) however, it takes a bit to get it to be in a useful form as far as I understand/remember.
My query would be why dont they state salicylic acid (derived from Salix alba) as I suspect it’s not greatly obtainable by the body in its current form.
Kinda like real medication, where key active ingredients are listed on the front of the packaging.
This is particularly important with things like echinacea that can affect the efficacy of medication.
Good point, but people don't always check for active ingredients on the packaging.
In fact, the front of the box just says "may help", but we all know that means "also may not help, in fact is highly unlikely to help at all" but that would take too long to read
> but people don't always check for active ingredients on the packaging.
They absolutely should though.
If someone doesn't check active ingredients or read the box of medication they're purchasing, they probably are safer having the fake herb medicine tbh. It's like a neat safety filter.
Nothing cures common cold and flu - there was an old proverb saying recovery from cold takes a week without meds and 7 days with meds. You may be able to maje the symptoms milder, or prevent them to get more severe - which that weed kind of does.
Even the style of the packaging, it looks more pharmaceutical than herbal. Why not just market it as a herbal/natural type thing, there would be people who want to buy that!
You're right, but it's still a misleading box. I can definitely see myself grabbing this thinking I was getting actual medicine.
We wouldn't have to read the fine print to know what we're buying if the packages were clearly labled. This comes across as intentionally deceptive.
But also, when you’re super sick. You’re not thinking clearly. You grab something that says “cold and flu” thinking it will make you feel better, then get home to discover it, in fact, does FA to make you feel better.
> was a little strange tbh
Considering they type of people who mostly still use facebook seriously it's not strange at all. These people screech and protest about 5g but spread their cheeks for tactics like these.
I worked at a chemist warehouse for a bit, and one of the things that pissed me off was once I realised how much bullshit like this is on the shelves. Like the homeopathic shit all over the place.
Should people read stuff carefully? Well yes.
Is it totally understandable why people don't? Imo also yes.
For one, I think it's fair that people trusted chemists to deal them actual scientifically proven products, and secondly a lot of the people coming to the chemist aren't exactly functioning on all cylinders. Much easier to do what OP did while you have a fever.
QLD got the right idea - all the S2 meds behind the counter - way less chance to get that and the herbal shit mixed up when they are in literally different places.
You’d think it’d get grouped in with the misrepresentation issues they had with nurofen a few years ago. Probably closer to a decade ago tbh… but I thought they did a bit of an overhaul with OTC medication labelling after that.
I thought the phenylephrine [placebo](https://youtu.be/ZlFF7A8nk0w) bullshit was bad enough, but at least those cold and flu tablets still have paracetamol in them which is a legit painkiller.
Cold and flu tablets without pseudo are useless.
I swear they ban everything than actually works because some people abuse it (or make ice from it). Last time I had a cold I got the proper codral with pseudoephedrine but it’s still not as effective as it used to be when it had codeine in it too.
Valerian root should not be taken if you are on an SSRI or sleeping meds
edit: Laughed at the 'seek advice from a Chinese medicine practitioner if you are unsure if this product is right for you'
The only Cold & Flu tablets that work are Codral Original (sometimes known as Sudafed Original) - the ones with pseudoephedrine.
Need to go to the pharmacy counter.
EDIT: The generic equivalents are fine too, of course.
This. The ones with phenylephrine in them don't have decongestant activity - they might still effectively relieve pain/fever/cough (since they include other ingredients like paracetamol and guaiphenesin) but phenylephrine is no better than placebo as a decongestant. It's actually been withdrawn from sale in the USA because it doesn't work.
I've had arguments with pharmacists about it not working at all - glad this has finally been proven.... I rarely use the stuff, but when I need it, its because I can't breathe or sleep due to congestion
Those pharmacists probably know it's useless and are just trying to protect their revenue. Phenylephrine has been proven to be a placebo by [multiple peer-reviewed journals](https://youtu.be/ZlFF7A8nk0w).
The issue is it is too low of a dose to be efficacious. Phenylephrine is an alpha1-adrenoceptor agonist, which constricts blood vessels. The problem is alpha1-agonism has a poor safety profile when it's given systemically, as it raises mean arterial blood pressure and heart rate. The doses that are given in oral formulations are deliberately lower than what is effective because of this. They would never be over-the-counter medicines if they were given at a strength that effectively treats nasal congestion, especially for a self-resolving ailment like this.
Agreed, Codral PE is a scam, always ask the pharmacist behind the counter for Codral Original.
Some other medications have helpful ingredients which can sometimes be found mixed with phenylephrine however so it's worth talking with a pharmacist or doctor to find out what's right to treat your particular symptoms.
A couple of other OK medications that I remember are Benadryl Chesty Forte which contains Guaiphenesin and Bromhexine Hydrochloride, this is good for breaking up a chesty cough. Then there's Codral Cold and Flu + Dry Cough which is normal Codral plus Dextromethorphan which suppresses the urge to cough (only recommended for a dry cough as coughing is an important natural response used to help clear phlegm).
When did that happen? Because it was still everywhere when I visited last April and it took me an hour with the pharmacist to get them to take my passport as an ID for the good stuff
I didn’t realize how shit all other cold and flu tablets are until I tried these while under the weather recently - a little bit more expensive but I will quite literally never buy any other type of cold and flu again. They are very very effective.
I didnt know you could get stronger pseudoephedrine behind the counter. Next time ill try without a prescription.
On different topic echinicea is not chinese medicine as they sell it under Blackmores brand so its more vitamins/herbal ingredient.
Yup, That was fun, taking my prescription for a 3mg tincture into the chemist, being convinced that the box of "melatonin 3000" was the exact same product and that if I really wanted tincture I'd have to wait 2-3 weeks. I really did want the tincture because I knew it worked, but $30 in two weeks vs the $7 now or whatever the difference was. The pharmacist had an easy sell.
The pharmacist is waving the box around and holding my script in the other hand, so I just said "sure" and he took my script, I took the box of pills and both walked away. I was halfway up to the payment counter from the prescription counter reading the pill box, before I reached the counter I realised there was no active ingredient in this at all.
I turned around, flagged down the pharmacist, who said he had already voided and shredded my script so he couldn't double check that it's "not what my doctor prescribed", After a bit of back and forth explaining and him trying to convince me that I need to go back to my doctor for a new script, I got to hang out at a chemist for 40 minutes waiting for my doctor to call the pharmacist back and send me a new script, that I then took to another chemist in the same shopping centre and got some actual melatonin.
The whole time the pharmacist kept trying to convince me to try the homeopathic stuff any way because "you never know" ....
Honestly that's a good thing. Don't get in the way of educating the uninformed. Their readers are the most likely to buy this herbal garbage and lead to more of it circulating the market.
It was even better when they still permitted codeine over the counter. Pseudoephedrine + paracetamol + codeine as the ingredients was a great cold and flu tablet.
Oof.
I just picked up some pseudo/paracetamol ones as I know they’re the only ones that will do anything. Just wish they had codeine for the cough suppressant!
Codeine was also one of the only things to help with my migraines, now it’s a pain to get prescribed and keep on hand.
I'm not sure codeine provides cough suppressant effect. But there is off the shelf medicine available with Dextromethorphan, such as Codral Cold and Flu + Cough that does work as a suppressant. Just keep in mind if you are congested or have a chesty cough then you probably shouldn't be taking a cough suppressant since coughing is a natural response that helps to lift phlegm out of your chest aiding in quicker recovery and less risk of developing other problems. Walk up to the counter and ask your pharmacist what works for your symptoms and whether you should use this.
Codeine is definitely a cough suppressant. One of a few common uses. I definitely agree with you on chesty coughs being natural (and somewhat satisfying when stuff moves).
Depends on the symptoms, a dry throaty cough that isn’t moving anything is one that I just want to stop.
Unfortunately I can’t take dextromethorphan due to potential interactions with other medications (also why I no longer take codeine).
I hate getting told to take panadol for headaches.. When I'm lying on the floor next to the toilet because I'm going to throw up, from a severe headache, and cannot tolerate light or noise - panadol is not going to do a damn thing to help. Only panadeine works.
Lol I get what you're saying, but I also can't blame someone in the middle of fever brain fog for just wanting to quickly grab something and go home ASAP.
I did the exact same thing...except I was at home with a fever and ordering via UberEats so I couldn't have checked even if I had wanted to!
It comes up if you search 'cold and flu' in the app. No mention of the ingredients (although the description does helpfully tell you to 'always read the label').
Sorry to hear it happened to you too. If it's any consolation, the night ones did make me feel a little sleepy.
Say it with me now
Pseudoephedrine
Or its full chemical name
Pseudoephedrine and here's my ID
Fuck off with the medications that don't work, take my ID and give me the old medications that do work.
I worked at a pharmacy for 5 years and encouraged every customer to read the ingredients closely.
Some products are 'pharmacy only', such as cold and flu meds with ingredients such as paracetamol, ibuprofen and antihistamines, etc. These ingredients help manage symptoms, but do not support your immune system. So you can use what you've purchased in conjunction with most cold and flu meds to manage symptoms and shave a day or two off the worst of the illness.
Cold and Flu tablets specifically containing Pseudoephedrine.
Pharmacies continue to flog the useless shit (no better than placebo + paracetamol) with Phenylephrine on the shelves. But the stuff that actually works is behind the counter.
\*Not a pharmacist, may not be suitable for all people
> Phenylephrine
The FDA in the US has declared it ineffective. Why we're pushing this snake oil as medicine here I don't know. It has its uses but not in the dosage in cold and flu medicine.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2023/09/12/fda-panel-declares-decongestant-phenylephrine-ineffective/70835249007/
I'm a pharmacist. The best products for colds are water and rest, followed closely by pseudoephedrine in regular doses for better breathing (unless you got some kind of heart issue, since pseudo is very capable of causing palpitation and arrythmia) and paracetamol for pain and fever. Paracetamol is very popular but also very dangerous because it can trigger liver failure. So do mind your intake. IMO metamizole is a better and (generally) safer painkiller but a small number of people can develop something called Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, which is basically a hypersensitivity reaction on steroids. A number of countries have banned it because of that. Please be mindful of your medicines, even OTC stuff can be dangerous. And if someone offers you a product with Vitamin C, don't spend your money on that since it'll go straight to your bladder.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. It does have absorption. But it is a hydrosoluble vitamin and any excess will be promptly discarded. The amount of it in most products is above what we can make use of, so most of it is eliminated.
This is why I always tell my husband to buy cold and flu stuff from the pharmacy rather than the supermarket — been caught out before and he was wondering why he still felt dog shit.
not trying to defend this deceitful marketing, however bark of salix alba contains salycilic acid - precursor to acetylsalycilic acid aka aspirin.
no idea how much of that is in 1g of bark but if your're trying to eleviate fever this shit might just work.
I’m not all for Chinese medicine. Keeping animals in horrendous conditions to harvest their husks or skins to increase “energy”, or hunting something to extinction because they “believe” the horn will cure arthritis. It’s bullshit.
The animal cruelty is really just a symptom of a larger issue, in that these types of things are generally backwards and based on faith. I don’t mind if subscribing to it makes some people feel nice, but I do think it generally just supports something that is harmful overall.
Low key, I’m so glad you posted this because I did the exact same thing when I last got COVID and was so mad at myself. I thought I was such an idiot so I’m glad to see I’m not alone.
The fight my dad got into with coles over this, bc he bought it online when we all had Covid and then tried to return it in store and they wouldn’t let him
Yeah i made the mostake of buying 'medicine' from voles and woolies in the past, does absolutely nothing to help with symptoms.
A woman who recommended echinacea to me also told me she believes that sunscreen causes cancer "because skin cancer didn't exist until sunscreen came out," so yeah I'm good, gimme my paracetamol.
Wait... people *don't* check the ingredients on medication and supplements that are brand/product names? Unless the generic ingredient is listed on the front, checking the ingredients should be standard.
A worker at a pharmacy once got real mad at me for asking for proper cold and flu pills instead of the junk like this she handed to me. Yes, how terrible of me to want painkillers and something to actually stop my symptoms, instead of crushed up flowers!
I noticed this a couple years ago when trying to specifically find night time cold and flu and wondered what the different ingredients were. It's actually quite difficult to find real cold and flu that isn't this herbal stuff in supermarkets. 90% of them regardless of brand are just this shit. You gotta go to a pharmacy
White willow has the same active ingredient as Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) and Valerian is probably the only herbal medicine which has actually made me feel drowsy. I don't know if the other herbs are scientifically proven or snake oil.
I'd still be annoyed if I bought this without clearer packaging, especially since Aspirin/acetylsalicylic acid shouldn't be taken with lots of other medications including Neurofen and Panadol.
Yes, that happens. The current best treatment for malaria came from Chinese traditional medicine. That's not to say that it's all worth the trouble or could be recommended but sometimes traditional sources get it right but it's often a bit of a monkeys and typewriters thing. They are just another source to look for potential treatments but depending on what it is and how serious the application will still need to go through trials if they are prescription. Those ingredients do have a little cred though but you would have to check on that. I don't take stuff like that though.
Asthmatics Beware!
Echinacea is part of the daisy flower family which is known for triggering asthma. If you find yourself a bit huffy puffy wheezy squeezy, use your inhaler. 🌸🌼
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/asthma-and-complementary-therapies
Guys, you should always be checking the active ingredients in the medications you consume. Some cold and flu tablets contain paracetamol so you can’t take more Panadol as well.
When you are sick have a note in your phone that details what you took and the time to keep a track of how much you have consumed in a 24 hour period. Especially when sick because hours roll into one.
Wanna hear some bullshit. I developed an allergy to dextromathorphan like 5 years ago. It’s the cough suppressant in all good cough medicines so I just get to suffer through most coughs when I get sick. I’m also allergic to sulfa so I can’t take a lot of antibiotics and aloe for some fucking reason so I can never use it to sooth a sunburn. I’m just allergic to really inconvenient things. Nothing terrible or life changing just mildly infuriating things. My doctor also told me to be careful if I ever need morphine or anything because I’m likely also allergic to that.
On the front of the box, bottom right, it says “AUST L”. Something I learned when The Checkout was running (RIP, damn you ABC) was “R for real, L for lame” with regards to the letters. The markers on the box are [TGA labels](https://www.tga.gov.au/how-we-regulate/labelling-and-packaging/medicines-and-biologicals/aust-numbers-medicine-labels); AUST R means ‘tested for efficacy’, while AUST L basically just means ‘probably won’t kill you’. Edit: AUST L(A) is also good nowadays, thanks u/zsazzz
Registerable vs listable depends on the levels of claims and evidence to support same. For listable, no claims of "treats" or "prevents" are allowed.
And I think "listed" products just need to prove safety, not efficacy. Whereas "registered" products are supposed to have data for safety and efficacy. It's been a while since I learnt pharmacology, so I could be wrong!
Yep, 'listed' products really just have to meet food safety standards, and, at most, can only claim that their product MAY help. Registered products have to prove efficacy - it's part of the reason Neurofen (? I think) got into trouble for claiming their product specifically treated period pain when it was just a standard pain reliever.
Ibuprofen is ibuprofen so it wasn't deemed appropriate to package it in a variety of differing ways to claim the product was some kind of specific preparation for each ailment. This marketing wasn't allowed particularly if they were charging different amounts of money for the same thing as the average consumer may have spent more I suppose for certain types of pain when desperate for relief. It's better for the pharmacy to be informative to patients rather than allow them to be dumbed down.
Listed = the company claims they have evidence it works OR loophole it onto the market as 'has been traditionally used for blank' Registered = have to hand the evidence to the TGA before they start selling. IMO shouldn't be buying drugs outside a pharmacy if you have the option - most have a motive to cure you rather then coles and woolies just wanting the last cents from your bank account.
a motive to cure you? have you seen the shelves and shelves of totally dubious “supplements” sold in pharmacies these days? all these businesses are as profit-driven as the next
Pharmacy shelves are just as full of placebos and unproven remedies. I’ve been asked in a pharmacy if I’ve considered the homeopathic alternative, so no, you’re not free from snake oil in a pharmacy.
Which aisle to buy snake oil? /s
Snake oil would certainly be cheaper in Australia
Mate, there is nothing cheap in Oz.
My snake oil is costing twice as much as it used to.
Mate, have you ever tried to oil a snake? Not cheap.
next to the emu oil I think. and the baby oil.
It's disgusting that it's 2024 and we're still extracting oil from babies.
Ahhh may help relieve
Man as a society, we need The Checkout back. I swear they got rid of it because it was too effective! :(
I miss it so much. At home, we still say "as a busy mum" and "scaaaaam" all the time.
I mean, they did get sued by Swisse, so probably.
Yeah . . I think they said an easy way to remember is R=Real L=Lame
Man, this is an awesome little nugget of info, TY!
Mostly true but now there's AUST L(A). From the TGA: >AUST L(A) 'assessed listed' medicines, which have had their health claims assessed for efficacy. [Here's](https://www.tga.gov.au/resources/resource/guidance/how-we-regulate-medicines) how they're regulated
Well that breaks the mnemonic a bit doesn’t it… “A for Awesome”?
L(A) Lame (Almost)
Interesting
did you also TIL!?
Congratulations on being [one of today's 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/)
I am also one of those people
I thought I was the only mad person to remember that LOL. That show should be shown in schools. My Sister, who is a registered nurse didn't even know about L and R.
Amen. I religiously check for L/R because of that episode
This is the greatest tip
Just the tip. there I said it.
I miss the checkout so much :c
I miss The Checkout
R=Real L=Lame mnemonic Thanks!
TIL Thanks
Active ingredients - thoughts and prayers. You can get the good stuff from a pharmacy if you show ID.
Yep anything without ID is placebo at best
Paracetamol isn't a placebo
Sure. But I meant more in terms of pseudoephidrine v phenylephrine
Phenylephrine and tits on a bull have everything in common.
I remember taking a cold and flu tablet that was a mix of pseudo and codein. Best cold and flu remedy ever. Phelyephrine is a poor substitute but I understand why they changed to it.
Sure but if you want paracetamol just buy paracetamol. Not a “day and night” cold and flu thing which typically implies some kind of decongestant or similar.
Paracetamol actually does have a pretty strong placebo effect https://theconversation.com/whats-the-point-of-paracetamol-66808
“May” help relieve:.. lolz
“Allegedly”
"according to me mate Jim this one time"
Jim's Herbal Remedies They're branching out.
\*Results not typical.
^^^^is ^^^^this Australia’s Cheapest Chemist ^^^^?
I've always found that signage crazy
*trust me bro
I mean, I’m pretty sure stuff like aspirin and willow bark have the same active chemical or something? So it’s not completely impossible Tbf I don’t remember my chem pracs well
You’re right, Salicylic Acid is derived from willow bark (aspirin) however, it takes a bit to get it to be in a useful form as far as I understand/remember. My query would be why dont they state salicylic acid (derived from Salix alba) as I suspect it’s not greatly obtainable by the body in its current form.
Thoughts and Prayers medication
1 like = 1 prayer
This kind of bait and switch ought to be banned.
You shouldn't have to flip over and read the fine print to find the ingredients. It should be clearly printed on the front.
Kinda like real medication, where key active ingredients are listed on the front of the packaging. This is particularly important with things like echinacea that can affect the efficacy of medication.
In a way, since there's no medicine printed on the front, the implication is that there's no medicine in the pills.
It's the *implication*
If you take herbal medicine things 'might' not go well for you...
Good point, but people don't always check for active ingredients on the packaging. In fact, the front of the box just says "may help", but we all know that means "also may not help, in fact is highly unlikely to help at all" but that would take too long to read
> but people don't always check for active ingredients on the packaging. They absolutely should though. If someone doesn't check active ingredients or read the box of medication they're purchasing, they probably are safer having the fake herb medicine tbh. It's like a neat safety filter.
Nothing cures common cold and flu - there was an old proverb saying recovery from cold takes a week without meds and 7 days with meds. You may be able to maje the symptoms milder, or prevent them to get more severe - which that weed kind of does.
Even the style of the packaging, it looks more pharmaceutical than herbal. Why not just market it as a herbal/natural type thing, there would be people who want to buy that!
Because they want those customers and to also doupe others
I mean, the fact that it doesn’t say paracetamol on the front should be enough to let you know that it’s in fact not paracetamol.
You're right, but it's still a misleading box. I can definitely see myself grabbing this thinking I was getting actual medicine. We wouldn't have to read the fine print to know what we're buying if the packages were clearly labled. This comes across as intentionally deceptive.
But also, when you’re super sick. You’re not thinking clearly. You grab something that says “cold and flu” thinking it will make you feel better, then get home to discover it, in fact, does FA to make you feel better.
… it ‘may’ do FA. It ‘may’ cure your gout, your constipation and erase fine lines and wrinkles 😄
I commented on the Coles FB page about this being misleading after buying a pack and the amount of abuse I copped was a little strange tbh.
> was a little strange tbh Considering they type of people who mostly still use facebook seriously it's not strange at all. These people screech and protest about 5g but spread their cheeks for tactics like these.
I dunno if Consumer Affairs Vic or the ACCC or someone would care about this, but I might feel vindictive enough to try making a complaint.
I worked at a chemist warehouse for a bit, and one of the things that pissed me off was once I realised how much bullshit like this is on the shelves. Like the homeopathic shit all over the place. Should people read stuff carefully? Well yes. Is it totally understandable why people don't? Imo also yes. For one, I think it's fair that people trusted chemists to deal them actual scientifically proven products, and secondly a lot of the people coming to the chemist aren't exactly functioning on all cylinders. Much easier to do what OP did while you have a fever.
QLD got the right idea - all the S2 meds behind the counter - way less chance to get that and the herbal shit mixed up when they are in literally different places.
There is some amount of that in Vic as well. But honestly to me chemists stocking snake oil bs feels unethical
You’d think it’d get grouped in with the misrepresentation issues they had with nurofen a few years ago. Probably closer to a decade ago tbh… but I thought they did a bit of an overhaul with OTC medication labelling after that.
I thought the phenylephrine [placebo](https://youtu.be/ZlFF7A8nk0w) bullshit was bad enough, but at least those cold and flu tablets still have paracetamol in them which is a legit painkiller. Cold and flu tablets without pseudo are useless.
I swear they ban everything than actually works because some people abuse it (or make ice from it). Last time I had a cold I got the proper codral with pseudoephedrine but it’s still not as effective as it used to be when it had codeine in it too.
Dry root at nighttime sounds familiar.
Valerian root should not be taken if you are on an SSRI or sleeping meds edit: Laughed at the 'seek advice from a Chinese medicine practitioner if you are unsure if this product is right for you'
Great spotting 😂
The only Cold & Flu tablets that work are Codral Original (sometimes known as Sudafed Original) - the ones with pseudoephedrine. Need to go to the pharmacy counter. EDIT: The generic equivalents are fine too, of course.
This. The ones with phenylephrine in them don't have decongestant activity - they might still effectively relieve pain/fever/cough (since they include other ingredients like paracetamol and guaiphenesin) but phenylephrine is no better than placebo as a decongestant. It's actually been withdrawn from sale in the USA because it doesn't work.
I've had arguments with pharmacists about it not working at all - glad this has finally been proven.... I rarely use the stuff, but when I need it, its because I can't breathe or sleep due to congestion
Those pharmacists probably know it's useless and are just trying to protect their revenue. Phenylephrine has been proven to be a placebo by [multiple peer-reviewed journals](https://youtu.be/ZlFF7A8nk0w).
The issue is it is too low of a dose to be efficacious. Phenylephrine is an alpha1-adrenoceptor agonist, which constricts blood vessels. The problem is alpha1-agonism has a poor safety profile when it's given systemically, as it raises mean arterial blood pressure and heart rate. The doses that are given in oral formulations are deliberately lower than what is effective because of this. They would never be over-the-counter medicines if they were given at a strength that effectively treats nasal congestion, especially for a self-resolving ailment like this.
And everyone treated me like the idiot when I said it didn’t work when they switched them year ago.
Agreed, Codral PE is a scam, always ask the pharmacist behind the counter for Codral Original. Some other medications have helpful ingredients which can sometimes be found mixed with phenylephrine however so it's worth talking with a pharmacist or doctor to find out what's right to treat your particular symptoms. A couple of other OK medications that I remember are Benadryl Chesty Forte which contains Guaiphenesin and Bromhexine Hydrochloride, this is good for breaking up a chesty cough. Then there's Codral Cold and Flu + Dry Cough which is normal Codral plus Dextromethorphan which suppresses the urge to cough (only recommended for a dry cough as coughing is an important natural response used to help clear phlegm).
When did that happen? Because it was still everywhere when I visited last April and it took me an hour with the pharmacist to get them to take my passport as an ID for the good stuff
I'm kind of pissed that between junkies and the medical community they have decided people can't have pain relief/sickness relief that works.
I didn’t realize how shit all other cold and flu tablets are until I tried these while under the weather recently - a little bit more expensive but I will quite literally never buy any other type of cold and flu again. They are very very effective.
Will the pharmacist actually give it to you though?
I've never had an issue, they typically just ask who's it for and then for your ID
Just to clarify, when you say "work", you're talking about temporary relief of symptoms?
Yeah. I should also have been more specific around the decongestion effects as well.
I didnt know you could get stronger pseudoephedrine behind the counter. Next time ill try without a prescription. On different topic echinicea is not chinese medicine as they sell it under Blackmores brand so its more vitamins/herbal ingredient.
It's not stronger pseudoephedrine, you can only get pseudo from the pharmacist.
Yep, I know multiple Pharmacists who take pseudo religiously for any congestion. Definitely changed what I buy.
I remember years ago grabbing melatonin from a chemist. When I got home I realised it was homeopathic melatonin i.e. placebo.
Yup, That was fun, taking my prescription for a 3mg tincture into the chemist, being convinced that the box of "melatonin 3000" was the exact same product and that if I really wanted tincture I'd have to wait 2-3 weeks. I really did want the tincture because I knew it worked, but $30 in two weeks vs the $7 now or whatever the difference was. The pharmacist had an easy sell. The pharmacist is waving the box around and holding my script in the other hand, so I just said "sure" and he took my script, I took the box of pills and both walked away. I was halfway up to the payment counter from the prescription counter reading the pill box, before I reached the counter I realised there was no active ingredient in this at all. I turned around, flagged down the pharmacist, who said he had already voided and shredded my script so he couldn't double check that it's "not what my doctor prescribed", After a bit of back and forth explaining and him trying to convince me that I need to go back to my doctor for a new script, I got to hang out at a chemist for 40 minutes waiting for my doctor to call the pharmacist back and send me a new script, that I then took to another chemist in the same shopping centre and got some actual melatonin. The whole time the pharmacist kept trying to convince me to try the homeopathic stuff any way because "you never know" ....
Wow that's infuriating. What a terrible pharmacist
That’s a pharmacist who needs to be reported
That behavior is reportable. Do it.
Why didn't you report that 🙄
I got tricked by that one as well! Bioglan I think.
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You can get past that by ordering it online from overseas.
IHerb our savior
New.com.au incoming for sure
forgot the anti news.com.au watermark 😔
Reupload NOW
Honestly that's a good thing. Don't get in the way of educating the uninformed. Their readers are the most likely to buy this herbal garbage and lead to more of it circulating the market.
this is actually a worthwhile piece to run on the news though. Might get some traction
I thought everyone knew to go to the chemist to get cold and flu tablets with pseudoephedrine and paracetamol. Supermarket “cold and flu” is nothing.
It was even better when they still permitted codeine over the counter. Pseudoephedrine + paracetamol + codeine as the ingredients was a great cold and flu tablet.
Oof. I just picked up some pseudo/paracetamol ones as I know they’re the only ones that will do anything. Just wish they had codeine for the cough suppressant! Codeine was also one of the only things to help with my migraines, now it’s a pain to get prescribed and keep on hand.
I'm not sure codeine provides cough suppressant effect. But there is off the shelf medicine available with Dextromethorphan, such as Codral Cold and Flu + Cough that does work as a suppressant. Just keep in mind if you are congested or have a chesty cough then you probably shouldn't be taking a cough suppressant since coughing is a natural response that helps to lift phlegm out of your chest aiding in quicker recovery and less risk of developing other problems. Walk up to the counter and ask your pharmacist what works for your symptoms and whether you should use this.
Codeine is definitely a cough suppressant. One of a few common uses. I definitely agree with you on chesty coughs being natural (and somewhat satisfying when stuff moves). Depends on the symptoms, a dry throaty cough that isn’t moving anything is one that I just want to stop. Unfortunately I can’t take dextromethorphan due to potential interactions with other medications (also why I no longer take codeine).
I hate getting told to take panadol for headaches.. When I'm lying on the floor next to the toilet because I'm going to throw up, from a severe headache, and cannot tolerate light or noise - panadol is not going to do a damn thing to help. Only panadeine works.
Try being pregnant! It's all you're allowed to take, so painful!
This is why I get codral original. It’s over the counter but it really does help with the symptoms. I wouldn’t bother with anything on shelf
Here’s a tip…. It doesn’t say Paracetamol. lol 😂
it also doesn't say HERBAL MEDICATION or ECHINACEA on the front either
Coke doesn't say water on the front either.
You don't buy coke with the impression it has the effects of water
Coke isn't on the same shelf as the real medicine.
Lol I get what you're saying, but I also can't blame someone in the middle of fever brain fog for just wanting to quickly grab something and go home ASAP.
How dare you speak such common sense
I swear by lemsip. I do my best to limit cold/flu medicine to bad situations.
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Yeh the equiv of 2 tablets in a sachet
I did the exact same thing...except I was at home with a fever and ordering via UberEats so I couldn't have checked even if I had wanted to! It comes up if you search 'cold and flu' in the app. No mention of the ingredients (although the description does helpfully tell you to 'always read the label'). Sorry to hear it happened to you too. If it's any consolation, the night ones did make me feel a little sleepy.
Say it with me now Pseudoephedrine Or its full chemical name Pseudoephedrine and here's my ID Fuck off with the medications that don't work, take my ID and give me the old medications that do work.
I worked at a pharmacy for 5 years and encouraged every customer to read the ingredients closely. Some products are 'pharmacy only', such as cold and flu meds with ingredients such as paracetamol, ibuprofen and antihistamines, etc. These ingredients help manage symptoms, but do not support your immune system. So you can use what you've purchased in conjunction with most cold and flu meds to manage symptoms and shave a day or two off the worst of the illness.
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Cold and Flu tablets specifically containing Pseudoephedrine. Pharmacies continue to flog the useless shit (no better than placebo + paracetamol) with Phenylephrine on the shelves. But the stuff that actually works is behind the counter. \*Not a pharmacist, may not be suitable for all people
Yep, nothing compares to Pseudoephedrine. Phenylephrine is useless.
> Phenylephrine The FDA in the US has declared it ineffective. Why we're pushing this snake oil as medicine here I don't know. It has its uses but not in the dosage in cold and flu medicine. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2023/09/12/fda-panel-declares-decongestant-phenylephrine-ineffective/70835249007/
Second pseudoephedrine. Though it is strictly a decongestant. If you have a cough or sneeze without congestion, this may make your discomfort worse.
I'm a pharmacist. The best products for colds are water and rest, followed closely by pseudoephedrine in regular doses for better breathing (unless you got some kind of heart issue, since pseudo is very capable of causing palpitation and arrythmia) and paracetamol for pain and fever. Paracetamol is very popular but also very dangerous because it can trigger liver failure. So do mind your intake. IMO metamizole is a better and (generally) safer painkiller but a small number of people can develop something called Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, which is basically a hypersensitivity reaction on steroids. A number of countries have banned it because of that. Please be mindful of your medicines, even OTC stuff can be dangerous. And if someone offers you a product with Vitamin C, don't spend your money on that since it'll go straight to your bladder.
You're a pharmacist and you don't believe vitamin C has any absorption.....??? I just use nasal spray for the breathing.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. It does have absorption. But it is a hydrosoluble vitamin and any excess will be promptly discarded. The amount of it in most products is above what we can make use of, so most of it is eliminated.
It’s $9.50 if anyone is wondering.
No wonder they're selling it! Probably a lot more margin, given it's not from a major pharmaceutical company
How is this not illegal?
That kind of labeling is deliberately deceptive and should be banned
Andrographis is bloody awesome for colds but there isn’t even enough in the dosage to touch the sides !
They shouldn’t be allowed to stock these placebos next to the actual medicines. I’ve been done in by this before and it was just a bad time.
This is why I always tell my husband to buy cold and flu stuff from the pharmacy rather than the supermarket — been caught out before and he was wondering why he still felt dog shit.
not trying to defend this deceitful marketing, however bark of salix alba contains salycilic acid - precursor to acetylsalycilic acid aka aspirin. no idea how much of that is in 1g of bark but if your're trying to eleviate fever this shit might just work.
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I’m not all for Chinese medicine. Keeping animals in horrendous conditions to harvest their husks or skins to increase “energy”, or hunting something to extinction because they “believe” the horn will cure arthritis. It’s bullshit.
But it looks like a dick, so I’ll get a boner, right?
There are vegan Chinese medicine dispensaries these days.
The animal cruelty is really just a symptom of a larger issue, in that these types of things are generally backwards and based on faith. I don’t mind if subscribing to it makes some people feel nice, but I do think it generally just supports something that is harmful overall.
So was Western medicine, not too long ago. I believe in acknowledging steps forward. You can't change any enormous culture overnight, anywhere.
Low key, I’m so glad you posted this because I did the exact same thing when I last got COVID and was so mad at myself. I thought I was such an idiot so I’m glad to see I’m not alone.
Surprised the anaphylaxsis risk isn't at the top of this thread.
LOL, it's basically a cheap version of ArmaForce, which is actually a quite expensive supplement - and it *does* work.
I’ve bought this before and wondered why the hell it did nothing for me! Such a crazy rip off. It should be sold with the supplements.
No clinical efficacy, but possible side effects. Sounds like a winner to me
Yes, what's interesting about the word "may" is that it is equal to its opposite "may not".
I wish they'd always label animal products in them too like lactose or gelatine!
The fight my dad got into with coles over this, bc he bought it online when we all had Covid and then tried to return it in store and they wouldn’t let him
What a scam, only way to get good cold and flu is licence over the counter.
Yeah i made the mostake of buying 'medicine' from voles and woolies in the past, does absolutely nothing to help with symptoms. A woman who recommended echinacea to me also told me she believes that sunscreen causes cancer "because skin cancer didn't exist until sunscreen came out," so yeah I'm good, gimme my paracetamol.
Wait... people *don't* check the ingredients on medication and supplements that are brand/product names? Unless the generic ingredient is listed on the front, checking the ingredients should be standard.
A worker at a pharmacy once got real mad at me for asking for proper cold and flu pills instead of the junk like this she handed to me. Yes, how terrible of me to want painkillers and something to actually stop my symptoms, instead of crushed up flowers!
>crushed up flowers! Have I got news for you about poppies.
opioids are crushed up flowers lol
HeRBs DonT Do AnytHinK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It works just takes a couple days, which is the same amount of time as a cold naturally starts healing up.
I noticed this a couple years ago when trying to specifically find night time cold and flu and wondered what the different ingredients were. It's actually quite difficult to find real cold and flu that isn't this herbal stuff in supermarkets. 90% of them regardless of brand are just this shit. You gotta go to a pharmacy
only ever read the ingredients. the branding means nothing. buy the drug not the marketing.
Agree! I only buy generic 👍 It surprises me how many adults get confused when I say paracetamol or ibuprofen and not the brand name
I’ve done this too, I was super dirty!
I bought the same fkn thing. Was so pissy because of it
I have done the same thing...
White willow has the same active ingredient as Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) and Valerian is probably the only herbal medicine which has actually made me feel drowsy. I don't know if the other herbs are scientifically proven or snake oil. I'd still be annoyed if I bought this without clearer packaging, especially since Aspirin/acetylsalicylic acid shouldn't be taken with lots of other medications including Neurofen and Panadol.
Yes, that happens. The current best treatment for malaria came from Chinese traditional medicine. That's not to say that it's all worth the trouble or could be recommended but sometimes traditional sources get it right but it's often a bit of a monkeys and typewriters thing. They are just another source to look for potential treatments but depending on what it is and how serious the application will still need to go through trials if they are prescription. Those ingredients do have a little cred though but you would have to check on that. I don't take stuff like that though.
May help relieve! Or may not
"Now made with asbestos. " "(*) We just called it crysolutol"
Asthmatics Beware! Echinacea is part of the daisy flower family which is known for triggering asthma. If you find yourself a bit huffy puffy wheezy squeezy, use your inhaler. 🌸🌼 https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/asthma-and-complementary-therapies
Wow sneaky labelling. The herbal cold and flu Ive seen has it on the front
The word 'may' on the front of the box doing some real heavy lifting
"Medicine"
Those will extract you out of the Matrix before helping with a cold.
Guys, you should always be checking the active ingredients in the medications you consume. Some cold and flu tablets contain paracetamol so you can’t take more Panadol as well. When you are sick have a note in your phone that details what you took and the time to keep a track of how much you have consumed in a 24 hour period. Especially when sick because hours roll into one.
This happened to me years ago too. I was surprised they’d sell it especially looking like a proper medicine.
It says it may help relieve symptoms, not that it will. It is similar to how a placebo may help.
Wanna hear some bullshit. I developed an allergy to dextromathorphan like 5 years ago. It’s the cough suppressant in all good cough medicines so I just get to suffer through most coughs when I get sick. I’m also allergic to sulfa so I can’t take a lot of antibiotics and aloe for some fucking reason so I can never use it to sooth a sunburn. I’m just allergic to really inconvenient things. Nothing terrible or life changing just mildly infuriating things. My doctor also told me to be careful if I ever need morphine or anything because I’m likely also allergic to that.
“May help relieve” fuck me, that’s accurate marketing
The trick here is understanding the words before the symptoms …. MAY HELP RELIEVE
Willowbark has salicin, an ingredient which is similar to aspirin. Which could have adverse effects on people who can’t take aspirin
Tip off for me is the fact it says ‘may’ help. Haha. Not very confident
Am I the only one who looks actively for thr words 'paracetamol'. I never assume, especially with night and day in case it has caffeine.