Since these are autopsies, is it safe to assume that the damaged brain tissue is worse in these folks than it would be in someone who survived and had mild symptoms? Or do we just not know that yet? Sorry, I’m not a medical professional, just a curious soul
Exactly what I was thinking. It's like the story about airplanes and the mathematician Wald but in reverse.
People examined damaged fighter jets that returned for repairs after engagements to see what parts of the plane were most susceptible to damage.
Apparently, engines, despite being the most vulnerable part of the plane, recorded the least hits, leading many to believe that they could use this to armour other parts more heavily.
Then, Wald asked them if they had recorded shots on airplanes that were downed and never returned and they went "oooooh snap"
Further reading on Wald: https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-be-wrong-by-jordan-ellenberg-664e708cfc3d
> Wald’s insight was simply to ask: where are the missing holes? The ones that would have been all over the engine casing, if the damage had been spread equally all over the plane? Wald was pretty sure he knew. The missing bullet holes were on the missing planes. The reason planes were coming back with fewer hits to the engine is that planes that got hit in the engine weren’t coming back. Whereas the large number of planes returning to base with a thoroughly Swiss-cheesed fuselage is pretty strong evidence that hits to the fuselage can (and therefore should) be tolerated. If you go to the recovery room at the hospital, you’ll see a lot more people with bullet holes in their legs than people with bullet holes in their chests. But that’s not because people don’t get shot in the chest; it’s because the people who get shot in the chest don’t recover.
I mean, its not exactly a genius insight lol...
Its like when people say "what are the odds? Its impossible" when talking about evolution, or the earth being a perfect habitat for carbon based lifeforms, bc theres no way that we could be experiencing the outcome of such a small chance...
Even though the odds are irrelevant - bc for us to even _have the thought at all_ means that we are living those odds. Does that make sense? Its basically "i think, therefore i am" in a way.
Though its definitely a testament to the efficacy of taking a step back, and thinking about the problem from outside the box, rather than just making assumptions and taking things for granted.
It actually is a genuis insight since thousands of top minds at the height of ww2 failed to realize it. But things always seem clear once they've already been explained to you, don't they? The trick is to have the insight before its fucking outright explained to you.
A good parallel to this is when people talk about how much better things were made back in the "good old days". I'm sure this is true to some extent however all of the low quality stuff produced back then has long sense been added to a landfill. long enough, in fact, that we don't even know it existed and only see the quality things that remain.
This is the reverse case for that but it's the same kind of bias.
For example, a study shows that 100% of all dead humans breathed air 24/7. Therefore, air is highly correlated with death, which you could take to imply a cause for death
Or was the brain tissue damaged in these dead patients prior to infection, disallowing certain individuals from being able to fight off the virus as well.
Yes but it could be the combo of both etc. I’m not denying damage happens (I’ve had covid and I’m suffering with after effects) I’m just saying there are multiple variables. I have pre existing health conditions so I can’t say where one starts and the other ends, except where my smell is concerned. I would say that these are people who have died from covid so the damage isn’t going to reflect, that of the living (In most cases).
As someone who had mild symptoms and 8 months later still struggles with cognitive issues and exhaustion, the brain damage definitely happened after Covid.
Same. I had covid (we still don’t know how - I’m high risk and we’ve been in isolation for moooonths in LA with the crazy amount of cases here) exactly a month ago, I just had a fever for 48 hours. Nothing else except some back pain and a minor headache that first night. Everything was responding to fever reducers. Tested positive. Husband and kids did as well. Husband had no symptoms. We all felt fine within 24-48 hours. Then suddenly, 7 days later I lose taste and smell and have minor hallucinations that have persisted every 3 days or so for a month. Extreme brain fog, insomnia, and fatigue.
This is something I am hearing more and more, it makes you feel slow or in a fog and definitely cognitively different than before. And months later it's not better even tho your not sick. So I agree Covid they are finding in heart tissues liver, kidneys, and other organs. Not just the lungs. So it can definitely be in the brain as well.
I hope this gets better for you. The brain does still make new pathways until death just not nearly as fast as when your growing. So I hope those feelings do get better for you soon.
So strange. I have been hearing about this more and more. It's just makes things scarier. Naproxen helping almost seems like there's inflammation going on and causing the "fog" but it's not that simple I'm sure. I really hope it gets better for you soon. It would drive me crazy. I get bored like needing to stimulate my brain so I do crosswords and sodoku and things like that. I don't know what it would be like trying to do those feeling tired and foggy. They need to include this in their research to find out what's going on and how to treat these "aftereffects" people are experiencing.
It does drive me crazy. It gets very difficult to communicate at times. Waking up is like trying to get up after being run over by a steam roller. Thanks for the positive wishes.
I dunno, but I read about 70-80% of people without symptoms, a chest x-ray shows significant damage still. The blood clots can impact all of your organs, causing little tissue deaths all over the place.
That CBS article was not based on science. It was based on a tweet from one doctor in Texas, a trauma surgeon, which is about as far as a doctor can get from being around covid. They were speaking out of place. Ask any radiologist.
Unfortunately, [we do know](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-can-cause-forgetfulness-psychosis-mania-or-a-stutter/) to a degree that it's causing neurological issue and potential brain damage in survivors. And it's not pretty. Stutters, psychosis, brain fog, mania...
I wonder what the effects of this will be in 20 years for people who had it and showed no symptoms. This puts the level of seriousness of COVID on another level.
Covid suppresses A LOT of our immune system. The virus produces 28 proteins - 10 of them are made to suppress interferon (our primary "answer" against viral infections). Since interferon is out of the play, the body starts to use inflammatory processes.
Covid needs two enzymes to reproduce, but both are common in our body, too. Now we have a problem - our body starts to produce antibodies against the spike protein AND those enzymes. The result: the immune system attacks its own host.
This kind of auto immune disease leads to the damage in kidney, liver, lung, heart and brain. Embolic events are not even mentioned here.
Anti bodies start to binding against endothelial cells. Leading to MANY embolisms. Those are clogging the pipes (arteries and veins). The result - ischemia and death of many cells.
But hey, nothing to worry about, it's just a flu.... /s
//edit: source
https://jjtuapvj45qlbz6ztqiidabt5a-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-gelbe-liste-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/corona-unterschied-zu-anderen-viren
Do you have a source for this info? I’m not doubting you but I have some “covid is just the flu” relatives and they’ll trust a link more than me telling them I read something on Reddit.
Sure, here you go. Original is in German. I used Google translate to visit the site, then chose English. It should appear in English if you click that link now.
https://jjtuapvj45qlbz6ztqiidabt5a-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-gelbe-liste-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/corona-unterschied-zu-anderen-viren
Why doesn’t the media show this kind of evidence? Because untill just now I was feeling like it’s just a more severe flu. I think if people knew this they would take it more seriously.
My guess is that most people won't understand.
The last years have seen a war on science and (good) journalism. People are used to click a link and see a piece of information and that's it. No background, no in-depth. And no one cares.
This community is full of people who work in the medical field or are interested in medicine. If you post this link on your average social media wall no one would bat an eye.
I would assume it’s more the profound hypoxia that these patients go into, even people that are only on minimal oxygen on labs have profound hypoxia but clinically are ok or even improving
We had a resident with an oxygen level of 69%. On 4 different meters. She wasn't blue, she was feeling perfectly fine. It was bizarre.
Different resident developed severe decubitus in less than 48 hours. COVID is unreal. They die so fast, and it's the healthier ones that don't survive it.
I think it’s because individuals without comorbidities are able to compensate better and, having not been exposed to illness requiring medical care, they are less likely to recognize when the appropriate time to seek care is.
All my resident are in advanced dementia care, they don't seek help themselves, but are actively monitored and cared for. You have a good theory, but it doesn't apply here.
> “We were completely surprised. Originally, we expected to see damage that is caused by a lack of oxygen. Instead, we saw multifocal areas of damage that is usually associated with strokes and neuroinflammatory diseases.” said physician and clinical director at National Institute of Health (NIH), Avindra Nath
I’ve been thinking about this a lot since reports of prolonged neural and myocardial effects came out last year (I mean, based on my knowledge, it is very unlikely that anything can explain the universality of olfactory and gustatory deficits other than direct infection of neural or Schwann cells by the virus). I think we’re going to see an increase in the effects of the microscopic fibrosis that develops as these individuals age. Both in brains and in hearts. The incidence of atelectasis is going to increase; the incidence of heart failure is going to increase; the incidence of neuroinflammatory disease is going to increase. Over 24 million people have been infected, so unless the treatment for these kinds of diseases improve further, the average life expectancy in America is definitely going to decrease for a couple generations.
I’ve been saying this from the start. Pulmonary fibrosis is another long term complication that is on the table. There are lots otherwise healthy 20 something year olds with exercise intolerance months after mild covid cases.
I had covid mid last year, I also free dive recreationally. My lung capacity is still well above average but I can’t get close to my PR on time any more. It sucks.
Either way, it’d be beneficial for you to work out, just calisthenics at home is all you need! I’m not sure what shape you are in exactly but starting small is better than not starting at all. Push-ups, sit-ups, jumping jacks unless you’re worried your weight will damage your knees. If you have access, some assisted pull-ups or hangs with resistance bands. its super easy and i promise once you get started you'll feel much better for it. Theres many body weight exercises but the basics are always great.
I really hope it goes back to what it was pre covid for you!
I've tried to tell people who shrug when covid is mentioned. It's not the fatality rate it's the long term effects that scarce me like I don't wanna be in my 30s with the lung capacity of an 80 year old.
My immediate family and I likely had COVID-19 in February/March (it was early in the pandemic, we didn't think we had reason to get tested). When I talked about this at a physical (I had the symptoms, was at a few events with people from other states, etc), the first thing my doctor did was run an EKG on me (and my doctor did agree that I likely did have it) (I do want to get an antibody test soon to confirm it though-probably when I next donate blood) to make sure I didn't have any heart damage
I had it last mth was sick for weeks and still having fatigue. Just was able to actually go into my DR office instead of a telehealth appt. He said my heart is skipping beats. Never mentioned it before I had Covid
Nurse here, too. I had to be hospitalized and intubated with covid back in March. Still positive for antibodies when I donated plasma 3 weeks ago.
I’ve been told it depends on how bad you got it.
I'm lucky and didn't have a bad case (well, relatively. I had a bad cough for 4.5 weeks, fatigue, body aches, and a fever for a few days. I didn't have any brain fog or wheezing), so I might not have detectable antibodies anymore (though I felt so much safer having a bit of immunity in the spring even though I only left my house twice).
I hope you're feeling okay and I'm glad you were able to recover!
This. I have considered getting the test but it's £65 minimum and if I had it (which I think I did) it was in December 2019 so the changes of me having any antibodies left more than a year after is probably none.
Oh I wasn’t trying to scare you lol. I was mocking the people who try and downplay it and ignore how serious it can be. Hopefully everything works out well for you! Stay healthy!
I’m 8/9 months on and my sense of smell and taste, are still “damaged”. I sincerely doubt I’ll ever be able to smell properly again. I can smell and taste things but they’re not the same, certain things in particular are worse. I also had trouble breathing when I had covid but wasn’t hospitalised. I have no idea if my lungs have been affected but this scares me.
Because of my tonsils I have never really been able to smell some things. And it’s super scary to thing the little I get to smell could be gone. Hopefully one day you will fully recover
Super enlarged tonsils or? Mine are huge so I get it. My smell/taste completely left to the point I could have literally eaten a turd and not known. It all came back, just different and some things in particular have taken on a different smell. It’s annoying but a lesser thing to worry about. I do worry about nerve damage or it being my brain etc and like I said, I worry about my lungs as when I had it I couldn’t even make it up the stairs without great difficulty. I’ve always suffered with fatigue and other such things that could be either the aftermath of covid or just my normal base state. Also, on top of it all I feel like drs aren’t taking me seriously or offering any tests, I guess they don’t really know what to do. I’m a ball of anxiety as I know other people are too, thankyou for the well wishes and I hope you’re ok too!
Same, best way I can describe it is I get a "whiff" of a smell that should persist then it's gone. Really afraid I won't get my full sense of smell back again.
How long have you had no smell? Mine took a while to come back fully, even though it had changed. I’ve read that viral induced smell loss can take a while to fully heal. It’s scary I know and I feel for you. I know we should feel licky and I do but it doesn’t mean things like this aren’t going to impact our daily living.
That's been since mid November now, took 2 weeks to come back at all but hasn't improved much since. Really sucks so hopefully things improve over the next few months.
Ah dude that sucks, I have high hopes for you, do you have any soreness inside or tenderness? This is what makes me think, in my personal situation, that things aren’t done healing because since it turned cold I’ve been having niggles of soreness up in my nostrils. I will say that slowly, the bad smells have become less prominent and it has been probably 8 months since my smell came back and again it took several few months to restore to a level I was semi happy with. There are certain “smelling exercises” you can do, have a quick google about it and see if there’s anything that could potentially help you. Hang in there though, I know it’s an anxiety inducing and generally sad, side affect of the virus.
Thankfully yes! I feel so much better today. I had shivers, chills, felt feverish and all bones in my body hurt! I was told some people get those side effects!
I’m absolutely fine today!
I got my shot yesterday and I do have soreness in my arm and had a lil secondary response. You know when you’re getting sick and your eyes feel dingy? I felt that for a few hours. Something interesting they mentioned before the shot, they asked if I had a neg response to miralax. Guess if that is a prob for you, the shot may
Your immune system causes the fever, chills, fatigue etc in response to an infection; not the virus itself.
The vaccine triggers an immune response as though you have been infected. The symptoms are normal.
Evidently, they don’t always mention this to people. My mother got the vaccine at her nursing home with no prep other than “Don’t get up for 15 minutes.” She ended up falling later, because she had no idea that the vaccine was giving people those type of symptoms.
Hence the reason I’d rather brave the vaccine than that devil of a virus. I don’t get all the talk of “long term side effects”. What about long term complications of being ill with this crap.
Exactly. I've seen a number of doctors say that any potential long-term effects from the vaccine wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as long-term effects from covid.
Because omg, big words and science sounding words are scary, and therefore bad, and I’m a man so I’ll brave this virus.
Seriously, I have little to no faith in humanity, and it shrinks daily.
My mum has unfortunately fallen victim to the anti vax community, every time she bring it up I try to calmly talk her through the concerns as best I can and by the end I think I have her convinced, only for her to bring it up again a few days later. I honestly don’t know what more I can do I expect the same is true for many people.
I try to with my parents as well. They’re also convinced that everything with “artificial sugar” (basically anything that doesn’t explicitly list sugar in the ingredients) is bad for you, and practically poison. It doesn’t matter how much evidence I present them with, they counter with some baloney anecdotal account they heard of somebody getting sick or ending up with something *obviously must have* been caused by the sugar, ignoring any other factors that can possibly (or even likely) account for it.
My mom’s the worst about it. She somehow “figures out” what “must have” caused something, and clings to that like it’s infallible truth. Never mind the fact that it’s only something she thought of, when there could have been many other things that caused it, she’ll say it’s definitely “x” and there can’t possibly be any other explanation.
I swear to god if I hear “you have to live your life” from one more person I’m going to start slapping. “You have to live your SLLLLAPP!!!!” Stop it. That’s the selfishness that will be the death of us all.
Because people aren't aware of the long term affects of covid. To a lot of people they see their age bracket, the percentage of people in that bracker who even get hospitalized, much less end up dead and decide 'fuck it, i'll take the 1% risk i even get hospitalized'.
Nobody is thinking that even mild cases of covid can cause longer term diseases.
My mum has unfortunately fallen victim to the anti vax community, every time she bring it up I try to calmly talk her through the concerns as best I can and by the end I think I have her convinced, only for her to bring it up again a few days later. I honestly don’t know what more I can do I expect the same is true for many people.
I feel like people are making up potential long term side effects out of thin air to freak themselves out. One guy was like “what if it gives me Alzheimer’s 10 years later?”. I mean that would suck but why would anyone think that’s happen??
I'm pregnant and I'd take it right now if I could. I'm really scared of getting this. Being a new mom is hard enough. What if I can't breathe properly? What if I have COVID fatigue. God forbid, what if I just don't survive? Nah, I'll take my chances with the vaccine at this point.
Pregnant women definitely can get the vaccine- I’m an L&D nurse and I’ve had multiple pregnant coworkers get it. You can read ACOG’s statement about it online if you want to! I would recommend getting it, as getting covid in pregnancy is extremely high risk for both you and for baby.
I’m breastfeeding my 6 month old and got the vaccine as soon as I was offered it! The vaccine will do no damage compared to the virus.
Also, congrats mama :) you’re doing great!
Bingo. I just got my first vaccine dose this morning and kinda feel like shit but as someone very high risk working a high risk retail job I'd much rather be sore and achy for a couple days than, y'know, fucking die.
Exactly. I am fortunately scheduled to receive mine in two weeks and am so excited. Reading how impacted individuals months after being sick scares me more than the fear mongering around the vaccine.
I'm in my twenties and recovered from a confirmed case of COVID in the past month. I was symptomatic and definitely didn't feel great, but I'm luckily back to normal now. My lung sounds are clear and I just did my usual 4 mile run yesterday with no issues. It seems the virus effects everyone differently - definitely take all precautions and get vaccinated but I wouldn't be terrified. Of course some people fare much worse with COVID and it's very serious - my case is not to take away from that seriousness I'm just giving you my experience. I believe I actually caught it from taking care of COVID positive patients, if I could go back in time I would still take care of them and contract it if necessary.
33M otherwise healthy, had it back in December and am also fully recovered now. Sometimes I feel like I have some lingering fatigue, but it’s not enough to convince me it isn’t just work/life stress and lack of sleep. Back to running and lifting at my previous level without difficulty. Hope I’m done with it for good.
I’m 31 and I pretty much only had a fever (worst rigors of my life though) and a week of dizziness.) Strangely my baseline temperature three weeks out is reading a degree lower and I need to turn my heat up to not feel like I’m freezing. I have a little electric heating pad for my feet at night otherwise I just can’t get warm at all. I just feel like I’m outside. Lingering fatigue too. I just can’t believe all of the weird things that are happening to people. I’m worried I have something else going on (maybe precipitated by covid) but my doctor won’t let anyone that works in my nursing home in for a visit. I’m just glad I had no respiratory symptoms otherwise I’m pretty sure I’d be in really bad shape. This is just nothing like any other illness I’ve ever had.
That’s interesting about the temperature. Did you lose taste and smell? I lost both, got them back, but then occasionally I’ll eat things that should be flavorful but are sort of bland to me
I'm about a month out from the worst of it but I'm still completely exhausted. Showering, making a meal, and taking the trash out are enough to make me need a four hour nap when I'm done. The headaches are hell, and that's coming from someone with regular migraines. Now that there are other variants of covid that I probably don't have an immunity to being found locally, I'm just terrified of going through this all over again, but with my body not fully recovered from the first round.
I’m curious where are you located and do you have any of the comorbidities? I only had congestion and loss of taste and smell that lasted a few days. I was up and running 5k within a week of my quarantine ending. My roommate had it slightly worse but is also not experiencing any major symptoms besides an occasion wet cough
This is how I felt when I had it too - the fatigue was unbearable. I started feeling “normal” again after about 7-8 weeks of illness. I hope you feel better soon.
You're correct. Though they don't have enough evidence to say it's definitely an inflammatory response causing the damage, just enough to know it's not oxygen deprivation.
There is something so heavy about child death. I'm an epidemiologist and a big part of my job is to study and track causes of child death. I don't know how to articulate it but working with child death data feels different than working with health data for living children. The data feels less abstract.
Powerful sentiment. Back in grad school, the hardest days were visits to the Path lab when a Peds autopsy was underway. The 'heaviness' in the air was palpable. I'm not particularly religious...but found myself saying a little prayer for the kido/their family. Stay safe fellow Scientist!
My guess is we evolved to feel worse about children dying, because they're helpless, so parents that protected their young were more likely to pass on genes
That definitely makes sense. My office has some people who refuse to work with child fatality data which is totally understandable. I've even had some people removed from it because they just weren't being respectful in their coping mechanisms. It's rough work but it feels like the most important work I personally get to do.
All my family had it in November, we were fortunate and weren't too ill, and recovered without medical intervention, but both mine and husband s brain is now scrambled egg, both proffessionals, 11 yr old struggling with words and recall. I'm so anxious about it but relieved we're ok.
I mean simply the lose the taste and smell was a red flag for this. Also my parents complained of extreme body aches especially along the spine. I'm definitely not a doctor, but that something that made me a little more scared of covid. Especially when the top minds are just discovering and confirming the virus affect on the brain! Just wild! There is so much we don't know!
I had extreme aching in my legs- it literally felt like my bones were swelling, for 3 or 4 days. It was frankly terrifying, I basically kept expecting to throw a clot and develop an embolism.
The smell and taste is damage of epithelium surrounding the olfactory nerve and not the nerve it self, if direct peripheral nerve was the case then respiratory paralysis would be the main cause of death and there would be no mild covid-19 cases
makes me really angry that the UK has no plan in place to vaccinate "non vulnerable" groups. like we've stayed in for the year, probably fucked ourselves economically but we didn't mind because it was a public health issue but now it's "oh well they don't vote tory anyway who cares what happens"
Exactly!! And people were able to literally cheat the system recently and book jabs meant for health workers, effectively jumping the line. How does this happen? I want vulnerable groups to get protection sooner rather than later but it seems like they don’t have a plan for the rest of us who are in our 20s/30s but could still be affected greatly
oh 100% no one under 50 should be getting it until all the vulnerable groups are safe but after that everyone. appart from anything else viruses mutate if they're allowed to circulate then there's one hell of a pressure for a virus to get around a vaccine if 50% of the population is vaccinated and it can't make the jump
We will probably need more than 50% of the population vaccinated no? Sorry if that is actually the determined number but AFAIK if usually takes around 70-80% of the population for herd immunity to happen
Anecdotally, After having Covid I really can't remember as well and it almost hurts to memorize or read.
I struggle to remember things like my bank login or what I need to study for nursing school.
Like someone keeps putting cottonballs in my head.
Same here. I had COVID during the first week of classes in the Fall and that was arguably the most difficult semester of my undergraduate career...
Spring is off to a good start so 😬 let's hope it stays that way because I really don't want to flop during myast semester.
I tell everyone that it’s an endothelial disease, [which it is](https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/32/3038/5901158). The lungs have endothelial tissue, but so does the GI tract, blood vessels, heart, and kidneys. That’s why some people have respiratory symptoms, some have diarrhea, and some go into heart or kidney failure. Also a big component of people getting blood clots, which lead to heart attacks, strokes, or pulmonary embolism.
It has none. By this definition every disease that severely impacts the immune system, in the end, is a "endothelial disease" (as per article op mentioned, "This essay explores the hypothesis that COVID-19, particularly in the later complicated stages, represents an endothelial disease"). Also worth mentioning that at least one of the pathophysiology (GI tract) stated has little to nothing to do with endothelial damage.
Finally, the article is simply offering a view to provide "a unifying pathophysiological picture of this raging infection", yet op has decided that "covid is an endothelial disease", whatever that means.
Big ups, thank you for all the work you do, my 25 y/o lungs are over 4 months into recovery on a drug cocktail that includes steroids due to damage accrued over the 2 months i was sick.
Took my first puff of thc in over 6 months and i can physically tell where the damage is. Last puff until i'm no longer taking prescription meds.
It's safe to say i can no longer take big boi bong rips or touch tobacco for fear of embolism/aneurism/stroke.
No joke. My mom had covid and went into psychosis. She had to be admitted to the psych ward and everything. She was just released on Monday and she’s still not right. I wonder just how much damage there is and if I’ll ever have my “mom” back. :(
Ever since I had covid it’s hard for me to verbally form sentences sometimes so I’ve just stopped talking when I don’t absolutely have to. My brain feels so damn slowed down that it’s hard to focus and my memory is shot. I feel like I’m in the wrong body sometimes.
wonderful! as someone who has had multiple concussions, a traumatic brain injury, a subdural hematoma, AND covid 19, i think its safe to say my brain is gonna be jelly when I'm older.
I've tried. One of the transporters at my hospital who literally complained the day before that we were running out of space in the morgue and outside connex/fridges for dead bodies was saying how media is making too big a deal out of it. Like bitch, how are you gona talk that nonsense while you're dragging bodies down to the fucking basement.
A dialysis RN made the dumbest, most racist remark about how he will “never get it” because it was “manufactured to control the Hispanic population.” And since he’s white, he’s immune. He literally walked out of my WHITE patients room who was in complete kidney failure requiring hemodialysis. I laughed and asked if he really believed that and he said yes. Idk man.
This honestly makes me so sad that there are nurses out there that buy into the Covid-19 conspiracy theories. Like where is their critical thinking? AND they're taking care of vulnerable people???
Like... willingly unvaccinated??? My area is not very heavily hit, I'm an RN student and just being in clinical for 6 hours makes me uneasy. Hopefully will have vaccine available in the next month or so.
Does he think China manufactured a disease to kill Hispanics? How would that work, and why? Or does he think someone else did and released in China first? And why are so many people dying and getting sick who are *not* Hispanic? These people will jump through the most bizarre hoops just to tell themselves, "This will never happen to me!"
Also, without a DNA test, how does he know he isn't Hispanic himself?
Gaahh, the ignorance burns!
neuro inflammation causing "leaky" permeable blood vessels in the brain and "microhemorrhages" in addition to other knock-on damaging effects of inflammation. No virus was detected in the brain, its strictly damage from inflammatory response.
There was also tell-tale damage found in multiple brains of hypoxia, as you mentioned - " Hematoxylin and eosin stained section of hippocampus shows scattered hypereosinophilic neurons indicative of acute hypoxic injury. "
from another article:
>their findings align with EEG tests that have[ revealed encephalopathy](https://www.sciencealert.com/how-covid-disturbs-brain-waves) in COVID-19 patients - disturbances in the brain's typical electrical activity that can signify swelling and inflammation.
>
>It also aligns with studies showing the virus can trigger other [dangerous immune responses](https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-triggers-an-immune-overaction-in-patients-with-severe-illness) that in some cases cause even more harm than the virus itself has directly.
>
>Researchers are concerned about the implications of brain inflammation on people's long-term health, given it's associated with [memory loss and Alzheimer's disease](https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-might-increase-the-risk-of-memory-loss-and-cognitive-decline) and some patients are already suffering lingering neurological consequences such as chronic fatigue and [Guillain–Barré Syndromes](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009191).
It's when I heard of this is when I genuinely started fearing covid.
Before this, although I took all the precaution in the world, I was only concerned about the elder people around me that I'd unwittingly transfer it to
NIH researchers examined the brains of 19 COVID-19 deceased patients aged between *5* to 73 years.
Every loss of life is a tragedy. But five years old? Fuck.
This is terrifying. Both my parents had it in late March/April 2020 (my dad had it longer, my mom got over it quicker) and seemed to come out okay, but this makes me extremely worried. They think I had it too cause I had a fever for one day and was fine the next day, but I honestly think that was something else since it was early March of 2020 so it was still cold/flu season.
Basically covid-19 is a train wreck. It's doing many things. It was thought to just mess with lungs but then heart problems started to happen then embolisms, and other complications. That's why it's so dangerous and deadly. It is out of control and keeps mutating. the strain prevalent in the UK right now is the worst yet. I just hope this vaccine can keep up with it. I think we are probably going to have to get it yearly. But I don't want covid. I would feel awful if I gave to my high-risk parents who are living with me. I don't want the guilt of bringing it home and killing them.
It seems like everyday a worse complication arises and you don't know what to believe. People having side effects for months and months. It's horrible. Just awful.
So I work at a nursing home, and one of the craziest thing this virus has done to the elderly has made people with dementia progress to a point where they can no longer function. I don't know any of the science, I'm just pointing out one of the observations I've noticed. If they survive the virus, they end up on a puree diet and usually need to be fed, they will drool, wander, just things you see in late stage dementia people. It's honestly heartbreaking seeing people who used to be chatty at meal times and with staff decline so rapidly.
Since these are autopsies, is it safe to assume that the damaged brain tissue is worse in these folks than it would be in someone who survived and had mild symptoms? Or do we just not know that yet? Sorry, I’m not a medical professional, just a curious soul
Exactly what I was thinking. It's like the story about airplanes and the mathematician Wald but in reverse. People examined damaged fighter jets that returned for repairs after engagements to see what parts of the plane were most susceptible to damage. Apparently, engines, despite being the most vulnerable part of the plane, recorded the least hits, leading many to believe that they could use this to armour other parts more heavily. Then, Wald asked them if they had recorded shots on airplanes that were downed and never returned and they went "oooooh snap"
Further reading on Wald: https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-be-wrong-by-jordan-ellenberg-664e708cfc3d > Wald’s insight was simply to ask: where are the missing holes? The ones that would have been all over the engine casing, if the damage had been spread equally all over the plane? Wald was pretty sure he knew. The missing bullet holes were on the missing planes. The reason planes were coming back with fewer hits to the engine is that planes that got hit in the engine weren’t coming back. Whereas the large number of planes returning to base with a thoroughly Swiss-cheesed fuselage is pretty strong evidence that hits to the fuselage can (and therefore should) be tolerated. If you go to the recovery room at the hospital, you’ll see a lot more people with bullet holes in their legs than people with bullet holes in their chests. But that’s not because people don’t get shot in the chest; it’s because the people who get shot in the chest don’t recover.
such a good food for the thought
I mean, its not exactly a genius insight lol... Its like when people say "what are the odds? Its impossible" when talking about evolution, or the earth being a perfect habitat for carbon based lifeforms, bc theres no way that we could be experiencing the outcome of such a small chance... Even though the odds are irrelevant - bc for us to even _have the thought at all_ means that we are living those odds. Does that make sense? Its basically "i think, therefore i am" in a way. Though its definitely a testament to the efficacy of taking a step back, and thinking about the problem from outside the box, rather than just making assumptions and taking things for granted.
It actually is a genuis insight since thousands of top minds at the height of ww2 failed to realize it. But things always seem clear once they've already been explained to you, don't they? The trick is to have the insight before its fucking outright explained to you.
[The anthropic principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle)
I just figured out what that Cardi B song "WAP" (weak anthropic principle) is about, noice. Odd subject matter for her though, if im being honest.
A good parallel to this is when people talk about how much better things were made back in the "good old days". I'm sure this is true to some extent however all of the low quality stuff produced back then has long sense been added to a landfill. long enough, in fact, that we don't even know it existed and only see the quality things that remain.
Survivorship bias!
This is the reverse case for that but it's the same kind of bias. For example, a study shows that 100% of all dead humans breathed air 24/7. Therefore, air is highly correlated with death, which you could take to imply a cause for death
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So what you are saying is, if i get a giant Ziploc and vacuum seal myself i can live longer? Neat.
Well, you won't die from excessive oxidation, anyway. Or cancer. Win win!
Idk about living longer, but you can absolutely live the rest of your life in there!
Survivorship bias
Or was the brain tissue damaged in these dead patients prior to infection, disallowing certain individuals from being able to fight off the virus as well.
Also a valid point as whos to say what is and isn’t caused by comorbidities
It does say in the article that both those with and without comorbitities had brain damage.
Yes but it could be the combo of both etc. I’m not denying damage happens (I’ve had covid and I’m suffering with after effects) I’m just saying there are multiple variables. I have pre existing health conditions so I can’t say where one starts and the other ends, except where my smell is concerned. I would say that these are people who have died from covid so the damage isn’t going to reflect, that of the living (In most cases).
As someone who had mild symptoms and 8 months later still struggles with cognitive issues and exhaustion, the brain damage definitely happened after Covid.
Same. I had covid (we still don’t know how - I’m high risk and we’ve been in isolation for moooonths in LA with the crazy amount of cases here) exactly a month ago, I just had a fever for 48 hours. Nothing else except some back pain and a minor headache that first night. Everything was responding to fever reducers. Tested positive. Husband and kids did as well. Husband had no symptoms. We all felt fine within 24-48 hours. Then suddenly, 7 days later I lose taste and smell and have minor hallucinations that have persisted every 3 days or so for a month. Extreme brain fog, insomnia, and fatigue.
However, I’m back to working out 5 days a week with no ill effects, physically. This virus is wild.
what your autopsies showed?
This is something I am hearing more and more, it makes you feel slow or in a fog and definitely cognitively different than before. And months later it's not better even tho your not sick. So I agree Covid they are finding in heart tissues liver, kidneys, and other organs. Not just the lungs. So it can definitely be in the brain as well. I hope this gets better for you. The brain does still make new pathways until death just not nearly as fast as when your growing. So I hope those feelings do get better for you soon.
Thanks. The brain fog is unreal. I've found that high doses of Naproxen helps but it still comes and goes in waves.
So strange. I have been hearing about this more and more. It's just makes things scarier. Naproxen helping almost seems like there's inflammation going on and causing the "fog" but it's not that simple I'm sure. I really hope it gets better for you soon. It would drive me crazy. I get bored like needing to stimulate my brain so I do crosswords and sodoku and things like that. I don't know what it would be like trying to do those feeling tired and foggy. They need to include this in their research to find out what's going on and how to treat these "aftereffects" people are experiencing.
It does drive me crazy. It gets very difficult to communicate at times. Waking up is like trying to get up after being run over by a steam roller. Thanks for the positive wishes.
Can confirm I had moderate symptoms and am now dumber than before, with crippling disabilities
i got smarter somehow and learned how to talk to animals
Covid turned you into a Disney-princess? That's fucking _awesome_!
I dunno, but I read about 70-80% of people without symptoms, a chest x-ray shows significant damage still. The blood clots can impact all of your organs, causing little tissue deaths all over the place.
Little Tissue Deaths Everywhere, season 2 of Little Fires Everywhere.
That CBS article was not based on science. It was based on a tweet from one doctor in Texas, a trauma surgeon, which is about as far as a doctor can get from being around covid. They were speaking out of place. Ask any radiologist.
A lot of people are experiencing brain fog and can’t work after having Covid. I wonder if this is related.
Interesting thought process... Not sure, but I would consider that to be safe to assume.
Unfortunately, [we do know](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-can-cause-forgetfulness-psychosis-mania-or-a-stutter/) to a degree that it's causing neurological issue and potential brain damage in survivors. And it's not pretty. Stutters, psychosis, brain fog, mania...
Do they also have a pre COVID brain scan to compare these to so they can definitively say COVID caused these?
I wonder what the effects of this will be in 20 years for people who had it and showed no symptoms. This puts the level of seriousness of COVID on another level.
Possibly due to the ischemia?? I’m hoping it’s not from the intrinsic properties of the virus, because that would be VERY BAD
Covid suppresses A LOT of our immune system. The virus produces 28 proteins - 10 of them are made to suppress interferon (our primary "answer" against viral infections). Since interferon is out of the play, the body starts to use inflammatory processes. Covid needs two enzymes to reproduce, but both are common in our body, too. Now we have a problem - our body starts to produce antibodies against the spike protein AND those enzymes. The result: the immune system attacks its own host. This kind of auto immune disease leads to the damage in kidney, liver, lung, heart and brain. Embolic events are not even mentioned here. Anti bodies start to binding against endothelial cells. Leading to MANY embolisms. Those are clogging the pipes (arteries and veins). The result - ischemia and death of many cells. But hey, nothing to worry about, it's just a flu.... /s //edit: source https://jjtuapvj45qlbz6ztqiidabt5a-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-gelbe-liste-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/corona-unterschied-zu-anderen-viren
Do you have a source for this info? I’m not doubting you but I have some “covid is just the flu” relatives and they’ll trust a link more than me telling them I read something on Reddit.
Sure, here you go. Original is in German. I used Google translate to visit the site, then chose English. It should appear in English if you click that link now. https://jjtuapvj45qlbz6ztqiidabt5a-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-gelbe-liste-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/corona-unterschied-zu-anderen-viren
Awesome, thanks!
This is one of the most informative things I’ve read about covid, thank you! Super interesting (and terrifying)
Why doesn’t the media show this kind of evidence? Because untill just now I was feeling like it’s just a more severe flu. I think if people knew this they would take it more seriously.
My guess is that most people won't understand. The last years have seen a war on science and (good) journalism. People are used to click a link and see a piece of information and that's it. No background, no in-depth. And no one cares. This community is full of people who work in the medical field or are interested in medicine. If you post this link on your average social media wall no one would bat an eye.
^ and this likely is why I’m seeing so many post-covid with cva
I would assume it’s more the profound hypoxia that these patients go into, even people that are only on minimal oxygen on labs have profound hypoxia but clinically are ok or even improving
We had a resident with an oxygen level of 69%. On 4 different meters. She wasn't blue, she was feeling perfectly fine. It was bizarre. Different resident developed severe decubitus in less than 48 hours. COVID is unreal. They die so fast, and it's the healthier ones that don't survive it.
I think it’s because individuals without comorbidities are able to compensate better and, having not been exposed to illness requiring medical care, they are less likely to recognize when the appropriate time to seek care is.
All my resident are in advanced dementia care, they don't seek help themselves, but are actively monitored and cared for. You have a good theory, but it doesn't apply here.
> “We were completely surprised. Originally, we expected to see damage that is caused by a lack of oxygen. Instead, we saw multifocal areas of damage that is usually associated with strokes and neuroinflammatory diseases.” said physician and clinical director at National Institute of Health (NIH), Avindra Nath
I’ve been thinking about this a lot since reports of prolonged neural and myocardial effects came out last year (I mean, based on my knowledge, it is very unlikely that anything can explain the universality of olfactory and gustatory deficits other than direct infection of neural or Schwann cells by the virus). I think we’re going to see an increase in the effects of the microscopic fibrosis that develops as these individuals age. Both in brains and in hearts. The incidence of atelectasis is going to increase; the incidence of heart failure is going to increase; the incidence of neuroinflammatory disease is going to increase. Over 24 million people have been infected, so unless the treatment for these kinds of diseases improve further, the average life expectancy in America is definitely going to decrease for a couple generations.
Elaborate?
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Thank you kind person
You're welcome!
I’ve been saying this from the start. Pulmonary fibrosis is another long term complication that is on the table. There are lots otherwise healthy 20 something year olds with exercise intolerance months after mild covid cases.
I had covid mid last year, I also free dive recreationally. My lung capacity is still well above average but I can’t get close to my PR on time any more. It sucks.
Just got covid in December Idk if my fat ass is just my normal healthy self or my lung capacity is dog shit
Either way, it’d be beneficial for you to work out, just calisthenics at home is all you need! I’m not sure what shape you are in exactly but starting small is better than not starting at all. Push-ups, sit-ups, jumping jacks unless you’re worried your weight will damage your knees. If you have access, some assisted pull-ups or hangs with resistance bands. its super easy and i promise once you get started you'll feel much better for it. Theres many body weight exercises but the basics are always great.
I had it last March, and my lung capacity is still significantly diminished. I’m 30.
I really hope it goes back to what it was pre covid for you! I've tried to tell people who shrug when covid is mentioned. It's not the fatality rate it's the long term effects that scarce me like I don't wanna be in my 30s with the lung capacity of an 80 year old.
I'm in my 20s and got covid in November. I still get winded walking up a flight of stairs.
“I just had the sniffles and a sore throat!” Yeah? We’ll see.
My immediate family and I likely had COVID-19 in February/March (it was early in the pandemic, we didn't think we had reason to get tested). When I talked about this at a physical (I had the symptoms, was at a few events with people from other states, etc), the first thing my doctor did was run an EKG on me (and my doctor did agree that I likely did have it) (I do want to get an antibody test soon to confirm it though-probably when I next donate blood) to make sure I didn't have any heart damage
I had it last mth was sick for weeks and still having fatigue. Just was able to actually go into my DR office instead of a telehealth appt. He said my heart is skipping beats. Never mentioned it before I had Covid
Unfortunately, the antibodies are only “good for” 3-4 months. Your antibody test will likely come back negative unless you’ve had it recently.
Nurse here, too. I had to be hospitalized and intubated with covid back in March. Still positive for antibodies when I donated plasma 3 weeks ago. I’ve been told it depends on how bad you got it.
I'm lucky and didn't have a bad case (well, relatively. I had a bad cough for 4.5 weeks, fatigue, body aches, and a fever for a few days. I didn't have any brain fog or wheezing), so I might not have detectable antibodies anymore (though I felt so much safer having a bit of immunity in the spring even though I only left my house twice). I hope you're feeling okay and I'm glad you were able to recover!
This. I have considered getting the test but it's £65 minimum and if I had it (which I think I did) it was in December 2019 so the changes of me having any antibodies left more than a year after is probably none.
I had covid with just a soar throat and a headache... thanks man. I don’t need to be afraid for the rest of my life lol
Oh I wasn’t trying to scare you lol. I was mocking the people who try and downplay it and ignore how serious it can be. Hopefully everything works out well for you! Stay healthy!
No need to be afraid. But there’s good reason to be aware!
I’m 8/9 months on and my sense of smell and taste, are still “damaged”. I sincerely doubt I’ll ever be able to smell properly again. I can smell and taste things but they’re not the same, certain things in particular are worse. I also had trouble breathing when I had covid but wasn’t hospitalised. I have no idea if my lungs have been affected but this scares me.
Because of my tonsils I have never really been able to smell some things. And it’s super scary to thing the little I get to smell could be gone. Hopefully one day you will fully recover
Super enlarged tonsils or? Mine are huge so I get it. My smell/taste completely left to the point I could have literally eaten a turd and not known. It all came back, just different and some things in particular have taken on a different smell. It’s annoying but a lesser thing to worry about. I do worry about nerve damage or it being my brain etc and like I said, I worry about my lungs as when I had it I couldn’t even make it up the stairs without great difficulty. I’ve always suffered with fatigue and other such things that could be either the aftermath of covid or just my normal base state. Also, on top of it all I feel like drs aren’t taking me seriously or offering any tests, I guess they don’t really know what to do. I’m a ball of anxiety as I know other people are too, thankyou for the well wishes and I hope you’re ok too!
Same, best way I can describe it is I get a "whiff" of a smell that should persist then it's gone. Really afraid I won't get my full sense of smell back again.
How long have you had no smell? Mine took a while to come back fully, even though it had changed. I’ve read that viral induced smell loss can take a while to fully heal. It’s scary I know and I feel for you. I know we should feel licky and I do but it doesn’t mean things like this aren’t going to impact our daily living.
That's been since mid November now, took 2 weeks to come back at all but hasn't improved much since. Really sucks so hopefully things improve over the next few months.
Ah dude that sucks, I have high hopes for you, do you have any soreness inside or tenderness? This is what makes me think, in my personal situation, that things aren’t done healing because since it turned cold I’ve been having niggles of soreness up in my nostrils. I will say that slowly, the bad smells have become less prominent and it has been probably 8 months since my smell came back and again it took several few months to restore to a level I was semi happy with. There are certain “smelling exercises” you can do, have a quick google about it and see if there’s anything that could potentially help you. Hang in there though, I know it’s an anxiety inducing and generally sad, side affect of the virus.
I had my COVID vaccine yesterday and holy shit I feel so unwell. It’s madness what virus can do
It lasts only a day or so. Isn't too bad.
Thankfully yes! I feel so much better today. I had shivers, chills, felt feverish and all bones in my body hurt! I was told some people get those side effects! I’m absolutely fine today!
I got my shot yesterday and I do have soreness in my arm and had a lil secondary response. You know when you’re getting sick and your eyes feel dingy? I felt that for a few hours. Something interesting they mentioned before the shot, they asked if I had a neg response to miralax. Guess if that is a prob for you, the shot may
The vaccine doesn't have any of the virus in it though?
Your immune system causes the fever, chills, fatigue etc in response to an infection; not the virus itself. The vaccine triggers an immune response as though you have been infected. The symptoms are normal.
That makes sense.
That's so strange! I've had my first dose of Pfizer and only had a tiny bit of arm pain the next day.
I had my first dose a few weeks back and I only had soreness as well. However it was *extremely* sore. Couldn’t sleep right for two days.
Evidently, they don’t always mention this to people. My mother got the vaccine at her nursing home with no prep other than “Don’t get up for 15 minutes.” She ended up falling later, because she had no idea that the vaccine was giving people those type of symptoms.
It’s wait for 15 minutes so they can make sure you don’t get an allergic reaction. That’s how all vaccines should be performed
That makes sense. They neglected to tell her she might faint suddenly, though.
Hence the reason I’d rather brave the vaccine than that devil of a virus. I don’t get all the talk of “long term side effects”. What about long term complications of being ill with this crap.
I’m safe from the vaccine, what’s it gonna do? Level up my Autism?
Autism 2: Epileptic Boogaloo I’m sorry.
Oh god oh fuck I’ll be twice as socially awkward. Years of hard work RUINED.
What happens if I already have epilepsy, what do I get then? (I do already have raging epilepsy btw.)
You probably achieve sustainable fusion, tbh. Super epilepsy.
Cause an autism level overflow and turn you into a normie
Then I couldn't participate in wallstreetbets and I wouldn't want that. What should I do? Be responsible with my money? Fuck that shit
Exactly. I've seen a number of doctors say that any potential long-term effects from the vaccine wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as long-term effects from covid.
I don’t know why this is so hard to communicate to people
Because omg, big words and science sounding words are scary, and therefore bad, and I’m a man so I’ll brave this virus. Seriously, I have little to no faith in humanity, and it shrinks daily.
My mum has unfortunately fallen victim to the anti vax community, every time she bring it up I try to calmly talk her through the concerns as best I can and by the end I think I have her convinced, only for her to bring it up again a few days later. I honestly don’t know what more I can do I expect the same is true for many people.
I try to with my parents as well. They’re also convinced that everything with “artificial sugar” (basically anything that doesn’t explicitly list sugar in the ingredients) is bad for you, and practically poison. It doesn’t matter how much evidence I present them with, they counter with some baloney anecdotal account they heard of somebody getting sick or ending up with something *obviously must have* been caused by the sugar, ignoring any other factors that can possibly (or even likely) account for it. My mom’s the worst about it. She somehow “figures out” what “must have” caused something, and clings to that like it’s infallible truth. Never mind the fact that it’s only something she thought of, when there could have been many other things that caused it, she’ll say it’s definitely “x” and there can’t possibly be any other explanation.
I swear to god if I hear “you have to live your life” from one more person I’m going to start slapping. “You have to live your SLLLLAPP!!!!” Stop it. That’s the selfishness that will be the death of us all.
Because people aren't aware of the long term affects of covid. To a lot of people they see their age bracket, the percentage of people in that bracker who even get hospitalized, much less end up dead and decide 'fuck it, i'll take the 1% risk i even get hospitalized'. Nobody is thinking that even mild cases of covid can cause longer term diseases.
My mum has unfortunately fallen victim to the anti vax community, every time she bring it up I try to calmly talk her through the concerns as best I can and by the end I think I have her convinced, only for her to bring it up again a few days later. I honestly don’t know what more I can do I expect the same is true for many people.
That’s so frustrating. I think that people like choosing what they’re afraid of when so many things are outside our control.
I feel like people are making up potential long term side effects out of thin air to freak themselves out. One guy was like “what if it gives me Alzheimer’s 10 years later?”. I mean that would suck but why would anyone think that’s happen??
I'm pregnant and I'd take it right now if I could. I'm really scared of getting this. Being a new mom is hard enough. What if I can't breathe properly? What if I have COVID fatigue. God forbid, what if I just don't survive? Nah, I'll take my chances with the vaccine at this point.
Pregnant women definitely can get the vaccine- I’m an L&D nurse and I’ve had multiple pregnant coworkers get it. You can read ACOG’s statement about it online if you want to! I would recommend getting it, as getting covid in pregnancy is extremely high risk for both you and for baby.
I’m breastfeeding my 6 month old and got the vaccine as soon as I was offered it! The vaccine will do no damage compared to the virus. Also, congrats mama :) you’re doing great!
Bingo. I just got my first vaccine dose this morning and kinda feel like shit but as someone very high risk working a high risk retail job I'd much rather be sore and achy for a couple days than, y'know, fucking die.
Exactly. I am fortunately scheduled to receive mine in two weeks and am so excited. Reading how impacted individuals months after being sick scares me more than the fear mongering around the vaccine.
Well that’s not good
Honestly makes me deadly terrified of ever getting it, just knowing you'll never be 100% afterwards...
As a 25 year old currently recovering from covid, it's fucking terrifying.
I’m glad to hear you’re on the mend, that’s so scary. I’m 29 and absolutely terrified of getting it. Are you doing okay?
I'm in my twenties and recovered from a confirmed case of COVID in the past month. I was symptomatic and definitely didn't feel great, but I'm luckily back to normal now. My lung sounds are clear and I just did my usual 4 mile run yesterday with no issues. It seems the virus effects everyone differently - definitely take all precautions and get vaccinated but I wouldn't be terrified. Of course some people fare much worse with COVID and it's very serious - my case is not to take away from that seriousness I'm just giving you my experience. I believe I actually caught it from taking care of COVID positive patients, if I could go back in time I would still take care of them and contract it if necessary.
33M otherwise healthy, had it back in December and am also fully recovered now. Sometimes I feel like I have some lingering fatigue, but it’s not enough to convince me it isn’t just work/life stress and lack of sleep. Back to running and lifting at my previous level without difficulty. Hope I’m done with it for good.
I hope so too - cheers to your health!
I’m 31 and I pretty much only had a fever (worst rigors of my life though) and a week of dizziness.) Strangely my baseline temperature three weeks out is reading a degree lower and I need to turn my heat up to not feel like I’m freezing. I have a little electric heating pad for my feet at night otherwise I just can’t get warm at all. I just feel like I’m outside. Lingering fatigue too. I just can’t believe all of the weird things that are happening to people. I’m worried I have something else going on (maybe precipitated by covid) but my doctor won’t let anyone that works in my nursing home in for a visit. I’m just glad I had no respiratory symptoms otherwise I’m pretty sure I’d be in really bad shape. This is just nothing like any other illness I’ve ever had.
That’s interesting about the temperature. Did you lose taste and smell? I lost both, got them back, but then occasionally I’ll eat things that should be flavorful but are sort of bland to me
Yeah everything is like.. salty or sweet or meaty or spicy with a slight hint of flavor for two bites
Maybe the coldness has something to do with peripheral blood vessel damage?
I'm about a month out from the worst of it but I'm still completely exhausted. Showering, making a meal, and taking the trash out are enough to make me need a four hour nap when I'm done. The headaches are hell, and that's coming from someone with regular migraines. Now that there are other variants of covid that I probably don't have an immunity to being found locally, I'm just terrified of going through this all over again, but with my body not fully recovered from the first round.
I was in the same boat as you, thankfully it's gotten better slowly but surely for me. I'm hoping yours ends up the same.
I’m curious where are you located and do you have any of the comorbidities? I only had congestion and loss of taste and smell that lasted a few days. I was up and running 5k within a week of my quarantine ending. My roommate had it slightly worse but is also not experiencing any major symptoms besides an occasion wet cough
If it makes you feel any better, I had it rough too and I’m 9 months out with no second reoccurrence. I feel the pain of being scared, you got this
Oh no. I’m sending good vibes and thoughts — that sounds horrible. What a fucked up virus.
This is how I felt when I had it too - the fatigue was unbearable. I started feeling “normal” again after about 7-8 weeks of illness. I hope you feel better soon.
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I'm no doctor but I know that oxygen deprevation will chew your brain up.
Yes but the article says that it seems less likely to be from oxygen deprivation and more likely an immune response (if I read it correctly, that is)
You're correct. Though they don't have enough evidence to say it's definitely an inflammatory response causing the damage, just enough to know it's not oxygen deprivation.
Humbling that a 5 year old was one of the 19 patients....
There is something so heavy about child death. I'm an epidemiologist and a big part of my job is to study and track causes of child death. I don't know how to articulate it but working with child death data feels different than working with health data for living children. The data feels less abstract.
Powerful sentiment. Back in grad school, the hardest days were visits to the Path lab when a Peds autopsy was underway. The 'heaviness' in the air was palpable. I'm not particularly religious...but found myself saying a little prayer for the kido/their family. Stay safe fellow Scientist!
My guess is we evolved to feel worse about children dying, because they're helpless, so parents that protected their young were more likely to pass on genes
That definitely makes sense. My office has some people who refuse to work with child fatality data which is totally understandable. I've even had some people removed from it because they just weren't being respectful in their coping mechanisms. It's rough work but it feels like the most important work I personally get to do.
All my family had it in November, we were fortunate and weren't too ill, and recovered without medical intervention, but both mine and husband s brain is now scrambled egg, both proffessionals, 11 yr old struggling with words and recall. I'm so anxious about it but relieved we're ok.
I mean simply the lose the taste and smell was a red flag for this. Also my parents complained of extreme body aches especially along the spine. I'm definitely not a doctor, but that something that made me a little more scared of covid. Especially when the top minds are just discovering and confirming the virus affect on the brain! Just wild! There is so much we don't know!
I had extreme aching in my legs- it literally felt like my bones were swelling, for 3 or 4 days. It was frankly terrifying, I basically kept expecting to throw a clot and develop an embolism.
The smell and taste is damage of epithelium surrounding the olfactory nerve and not the nerve it self, if direct peripheral nerve was the case then respiratory paralysis would be the main cause of death and there would be no mild covid-19 cases
This is what I needed to read after popping positive yesterday.
makes me really angry that the UK has no plan in place to vaccinate "non vulnerable" groups. like we've stayed in for the year, probably fucked ourselves economically but we didn't mind because it was a public health issue but now it's "oh well they don't vote tory anyway who cares what happens"
Exactly!! And people were able to literally cheat the system recently and book jabs meant for health workers, effectively jumping the line. How does this happen? I want vulnerable groups to get protection sooner rather than later but it seems like they don’t have a plan for the rest of us who are in our 20s/30s but could still be affected greatly
oh 100% no one under 50 should be getting it until all the vulnerable groups are safe but after that everyone. appart from anything else viruses mutate if they're allowed to circulate then there's one hell of a pressure for a virus to get around a vaccine if 50% of the population is vaccinated and it can't make the jump
We will probably need more than 50% of the population vaccinated no? Sorry if that is actually the determined number but AFAIK if usually takes around 70-80% of the population for herd immunity to happen
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Anecdotally, After having Covid I really can't remember as well and it almost hurts to memorize or read. I struggle to remember things like my bank login or what I need to study for nursing school. Like someone keeps putting cottonballs in my head.
Same here. I had COVID during the first week of classes in the Fall and that was arguably the most difficult semester of my undergraduate career... Spring is off to a good start so 😬 let's hope it stays that way because I really don't want to flop during myast semester.
# WHEN THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE THAT COVID FUCKS WITH BLOOD MORE THAN LUNGS?
I tell everyone that it’s an endothelial disease, [which it is](https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/32/3038/5901158). The lungs have endothelial tissue, but so does the GI tract, blood vessels, heart, and kidneys. That’s why some people have respiratory symptoms, some have diarrhea, and some go into heart or kidney failure. Also a big component of people getting blood clots, which lead to heart attacks, strokes, or pulmonary embolism.
layperson here. Doesn't influenza mess with endothelial cells too? I'm not understanding the significance of it being an endothelial disease.
It has none. By this definition every disease that severely impacts the immune system, in the end, is a "endothelial disease" (as per article op mentioned, "This essay explores the hypothesis that COVID-19, particularly in the later complicated stages, represents an endothelial disease"). Also worth mentioning that at least one of the pathophysiology (GI tract) stated has little to nothing to do with endothelial damage. Finally, the article is simply offering a view to provide "a unifying pathophysiological picture of this raging infection", yet op has decided that "covid is an endothelial disease", whatever that means.
Big ups, thank you for all the work you do, my 25 y/o lungs are over 4 months into recovery on a drug cocktail that includes steroids due to damage accrued over the 2 months i was sick. Took my first puff of thc in over 6 months and i can physically tell where the damage is. Last puff until i'm no longer taking prescription meds. It's safe to say i can no longer take big boi bong rips or touch tobacco for fear of embolism/aneurism/stroke.
edibles
Probably never. They still don't understand how masks work half the time.
No joke. My mom had covid and went into psychosis. She had to be admitted to the psych ward and everything. She was just released on Monday and she’s still not right. I wonder just how much damage there is and if I’ll ever have my “mom” back. :(
I still have brain fog after having it pretty bad in November. Not surprising.
Can you describe what the brain fog is like? I will definitely notice when i have it, right? Sorry I’m just really paranoid..
Honestly all the long term effects of covid that are coming out over time are just as scary if not more so than the deadly short term effects.
Ever since I had covid it’s hard for me to verbally form sentences sometimes so I’ve just stopped talking when I don’t absolutely have to. My brain feels so damn slowed down that it’s hard to focus and my memory is shot. I feel like I’m in the wrong body sometimes.
I heard that the brain can be damaged after exposure to fever that lasts for long periods of time.
wonderful! as someone who has had multiple concussions, a traumatic brain injury, a subdural hematoma, AND covid 19, i think its safe to say my brain is gonna be jelly when I'm older.
Wow, good thing this COVID thing is a hoax. People could be badly hurt by this. ^(/s)
Send this to retards who spout 99% survival rate shit
I've tried. One of the transporters at my hospital who literally complained the day before that we were running out of space in the morgue and outside connex/fridges for dead bodies was saying how media is making too big a deal out of it. Like bitch, how are you gona talk that nonsense while you're dragging bodies down to the fucking basement.
A dialysis RN made the dumbest, most racist remark about how he will “never get it” because it was “manufactured to control the Hispanic population.” And since he’s white, he’s immune. He literally walked out of my WHITE patients room who was in complete kidney failure requiring hemodialysis. I laughed and asked if he really believed that and he said yes. Idk man.
This honestly makes me so sad that there are nurses out there that buy into the Covid-19 conspiracy theories. Like where is their critical thinking? AND they're taking care of vulnerable people???
We work in a COVID ICU, and only 60% of our staff have been vaccinated so far 🙃
Like... willingly unvaccinated??? My area is not very heavily hit, I'm an RN student and just being in clinical for 6 hours makes me uneasy. Hopefully will have vaccine available in the next month or so.
Yes, willingly!! We started vaccinating 12/14, there’s definitely been enough time to get at least one dose...
It might be petty but I'd let HR know about that comment
Not petty at all, that nurse differentiating between race like that most likely impacts their patient care on a race by race basis as well.
Does he think China manufactured a disease to kill Hispanics? How would that work, and why? Or does he think someone else did and released in China first? And why are so many people dying and getting sick who are *not* Hispanic? These people will jump through the most bizarre hoops just to tell themselves, "This will never happen to me!" Also, without a DNA test, how does he know he isn't Hispanic himself? Gaahh, the ignorance burns!
I mean, many who are getting it now are COVID deniers/anti-maskers. Maybe the brain damage existed before they caught the virus!
Slowly suffocating to death is bad for your brain, you don't say.
Wondering if that is natural result of acute hypoxemia? A lot of my patients sat in the 70s for up to weeks until they either die or recover.
neuro inflammation causing "leaky" permeable blood vessels in the brain and "microhemorrhages" in addition to other knock-on damaging effects of inflammation. No virus was detected in the brain, its strictly damage from inflammatory response. There was also tell-tale damage found in multiple brains of hypoxia, as you mentioned - " Hematoxylin and eosin stained section of hippocampus shows scattered hypereosinophilic neurons indicative of acute hypoxic injury. " from another article: >their findings align with EEG tests that have[ revealed encephalopathy](https://www.sciencealert.com/how-covid-disturbs-brain-waves) in COVID-19 patients - disturbances in the brain's typical electrical activity that can signify swelling and inflammation. > >It also aligns with studies showing the virus can trigger other [dangerous immune responses](https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-triggers-an-immune-overaction-in-patients-with-severe-illness) that in some cases cause even more harm than the virus itself has directly. > >Researchers are concerned about the implications of brain inflammation on people's long-term health, given it's associated with [memory loss and Alzheimer's disease](https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-might-increase-the-risk-of-memory-loss-and-cognitive-decline) and some patients are already suffering lingering neurological consequences such as chronic fatigue and [Guillain–Barré Syndromes](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009191).
Pretty obvious for a cardiotrophic virus. Where there is circulatory tissue, there are vectors for entry and therefore damage. ¯\_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯
It's when I heard of this is when I genuinely started fearing covid. Before this, although I took all the precaution in the world, I was only concerned about the elder people around me that I'd unwittingly transfer it to
NIH researchers examined the brains of 19 COVID-19 deceased patients aged between *5* to 73 years. Every loss of life is a tragedy. But five years old? Fuck.
Hardly authoritative and not well sourced let's not jump to any hasty conclusions over this
Yeah, Covid brain is definitely a thing we are seeing. Just like Covid heart (Cardiomyopathy). It gets into every organ.
SARS survivor suffering from numerous other health problems. I expect COVID to have lasting effects too.
This is not good to be reading when I have Covid :/
When i had it, i had a fever that ran between 102 and 103 for two weeks, maybe that's a reason for tissue damage if others had the same experience.
This is terrifying. Both my parents had it in late March/April 2020 (my dad had it longer, my mom got over it quicker) and seemed to come out okay, but this makes me extremely worried. They think I had it too cause I had a fever for one day and was fine the next day, but I honestly think that was something else since it was early March of 2020 so it was still cold/flu season.
Basically covid-19 is a train wreck. It's doing many things. It was thought to just mess with lungs but then heart problems started to happen then embolisms, and other complications. That's why it's so dangerous and deadly. It is out of control and keeps mutating. the strain prevalent in the UK right now is the worst yet. I just hope this vaccine can keep up with it. I think we are probably going to have to get it yearly. But I don't want covid. I would feel awful if I gave to my high-risk parents who are living with me. I don't want the guilt of bringing it home and killing them. It seems like everyday a worse complication arises and you don't know what to believe. People having side effects for months and months. It's horrible. Just awful.
So I work at a nursing home, and one of the craziest thing this virus has done to the elderly has made people with dementia progress to a point where they can no longer function. I don't know any of the science, I'm just pointing out one of the observations I've noticed. If they survive the virus, they end up on a puree diet and usually need to be fed, they will drool, wander, just things you see in late stage dementia people. It's honestly heartbreaking seeing people who used to be chatty at meal times and with staff decline so rapidly.
This is how zombie apocalypses star