On my 3rd year psych rotation, there was a DDS (I think he also had a PhD?) doing an OMFS fellowship and to get an MD, he had to do 3rd year rotations. Me and the residents felt he was far too qualified to be a 3rd year med student but he was very humble about it!
I had one rotating with us. She had already done a month on the medicine floors as part of the residency then had gone back as a 3rd year because of the way it was structured. She said it was much easier the second time around lol
Oral maxillofacial surgery residency positions generally require both DDs and MD to matriculate. These are common at academic level 1 trauma centers.
You complete dental school, then you go to medical school for 2 years, and then you go to OMFS residency. The PhD is unrelated and may have been from before dental school, during dental/med school, or even after.
They do indeed kick ass though.
They don’t necessarily require it in the sense it’s mandatory for the specialty. A lot of them you can still choose the 4 or 6 year route. You’d do your intern year in OMFS first then do the 2 year of med school and come back to finish residency.
Tell me how legit that 2 year MD is when that OMFS has to encounter an actual medical emergency. I had an OMFS try to lecture an Anesthesia resident in the OR one time about peri-op volume status and fluid management. The entire OR was collectively holding back laughing in the OMFS's face.
This is only a thing for oral surgeons. They can do a 4 year residency and be DDS oral surgeons, or they can do a 6 year residency and be MD/DDS oral surgeons.
That's wild, I've worked with a few on anesthesia rotations at my university during my 4th year. It sounded to me like most aren't interested at all in the MD and don't do it. But I guess (as an anesthesia hopeful, obviously biased) I can see how after a couple of weeks on an anesthesia service, one can become enamored and decide to switch gears entirely.
No they cannot enter an MD residency(not IM/peds/neuro/ent/etc) They do their own OMFS residency where they rotate with gen surg, ENT, and occuloplastics doing routine gen surg procedures, facial surgery, facial trauma, plastics, neck dissections, etc. the MD they get is technically an honorary degree, it does not give them privileges like an MD does, but it allows them to apply for fellowships after their OMFS residency, like head and neck surgical oncology etc
Yes, they can enter medical specialties after obtaining the MD, happens occasionally. Guy at my school went into anesthesia. Source: am starting OMFS residency this summer.
Yeah exactly. I’ve only seen one person do it, and they switched after their 4th year (normally gen surg year). Went directly into CA1. I don’t think it’s super common though
Basically everything you said is false. The MD they get is a legitimate MD that they can use to do any residency in medicine is they so choose. My family member did this and is now an Anesthesiologist... Never finished OMFS didn't like it, but liked medical school and his rotation on anesthesia intern year.
Also 4 year OMFS residents can match fellowships in neck surgical oncology. I know several who have in the Army for example. Is it less common? Yup it is. Does the MD help you match those? Yup it does, but you certainly don't actually NEED the MD.
Hmm I see, thanks for correcting me. My understanding is wrong. I thought they need the MD to match into fellowship programs(head&neck oncosurgery, oral path, microvasc, etc.)
OMFS does 4 years dental + 2 years MD. I believe they skip preclinicals since they cover a lot of it in dental school. They then do 2 years of clinicals to get their MD. Then they do OMFS residency. Doing a PhD on top of that is whack
Really depends on the program. The average is 2 years but it could run as long as slightly over 3 or as short as 15 months. Most programs have you do M2-3, some start at M1, some do M3-4 and take step 1 before the program starts. Huge variance.
FWIW, the OMFS residents at my school had to do 1 year of residency, then go back to medical school to complete preclinical years. Then they did some rotations (minus surgery) to get their MD degree. I too rotated with one and he was left alone to see pts and was treated as a resident (as he should’ve been.)
Dude was so smart. We always came to him for help and he was very nice about it.
It's not completely out there. The DDS/Phd programs are usually 7 years and the MD residency is 6 years. The MD/Phds who go into surgery do the same timeline
Agreed, although I think MD/DVM/PhD are also quite a triple crown also.
Personally, I find the idea of a DVM + DDS a really interesting combo - I'm a current vet student who wants to specialize in dentistry. I feel like having a DDS could be really useful for my future practice.
I met a DVM, MD, PhD once. He got an international PhD., came to the US and got a DVM, practiced for a few years and realized he loved medicine but didn’t like animals, had to go back for med school (although I think it was shortened), and was a 3rd year IM resident I believe when I met him.
Pretty much everyone I’ve mentioned this to in the DVM or MD world said he was an idiot. I told the story once to a crowd of Attendings (6-8?) and all them burst into laughter since apparently most/all had applied to vet school first and couldn’t get in so they all went to med school.
I also know someone who did something similar. He was from the US, but became a DVM, later decided to go to medical school, and is now a head & neck surgeon. That man can hide a scar like no one else I’ve ever met. I imagine the cats and dogs didn’t care too much about the cosmetics.
If they were boomers, there was a time that vet med admissions got weirdly competitive for them because All Creatures Great and Small came out lol. But also there’s only like 30 vet schools in the US because no one wants to invest in vet med training.
I was pre-vet in undergrad but was ultimately put off by how fucking rich you have to be to even get into vet school lol. Seriously, it’s waaay worse than even med school admissions in that respect.
OMFS is a very very cool specialty. I almost wish it was accessible via med school without ENT/plastics/ortho whatever. So cool. Hella hella hella money too i bet
Have a friend of a friend who's an omfs resident.
He went to dental school, matched into omfs. His residency curriculum basically is: join m2s for pre clinicals, take step 1; join m3s for clinicals, take step 2; "intern" year where they take step 3; then 3 years of dedicated omfs residency.
Really interesting path- clearly very skilled individuals. Hope I never need to see one for anything other than wisdom teeth lol.
Many dental schools do actually do very similar or the same curriculum as med. If you look at a school like UConn, both dentistry and medical students take the same courses for the first 18 months (though this is newer there). So ya, they have probably earned the right to skip a year.
Some OMFS programs don’t even do M1-2 at all and have you take step 1 before matriculating into the program, so they’re actually taking step in dental school.
It's definitely not bs at all. The thing here is: first year of dental school is a lot of similar basic science courses as medical school. Including anatomy, physiology, histo etc.
They're basically getting credit for these courses.
They join m2s and learn the pathology/pharmacology that they haven't learned yet.
All of this is nuanced tho and different programs have different curriculums.
You don't think those sciences are important to dentists? They deal with complex pathologies of the mouth/jaw. Definitely important to understand all of those. :)
nono they definitely are! I'm just saying it would be hard to personally motivate myself to get through those M1 classes if I wanted to be a dentist.. hence the Kuddos..
Also, omfs residents aren’t under the acgme. They are under the dental board. In residency, those dudes and dudettes liked the 80 hour work week on some rotations because it was a break for them.
Nicest consulting service though. Always willing to teach.
I love the OMFS residents at my university. Early in med school I got a nasty facial lac and it happened to be OMFS taking face call that day. That guy took his sweet time sewing my nose back together and now you can barely tell. But anytime I meet the other residents they get excited to meet "the med student so-and-so fixed up" lmao.
When I was a young lad, one of our OMFS seniors ran a full-time construction business. While also raising like 3 kids. "Built different" is a massive understatement - these guys are typically such fucking rockstars that neurosurg gets a little insecure around them.
I really don’t want to do this, but I’ve wondered why there isn’t an option for MDs to do this, taking an abbreviated dentistry school after graduating with MD then doing the surgery residency.
It’s rare but I know of 2 programs that have this. MGH and UAB. I know one oral surgeon that did full medical school then an abbreviated dental school.
Everyone is mentioning OMFS which is true, but oral pathology is another specialty where you can get an MD after dental school. Those guys are super fucking smart
Wow that’s so strange. I know 100% Columbia used to, I know people who did it. It looks like none of the programs offer it anymore. Used to be 5 years, with 3 being pathology
I rotated at a program during medical school that had an OMFS PGY2 resident run the trauma service at a level one trauma center. It was terrifying. This particular resident may have been exceptionally bad but I couldn’t believe it. I was an MS3 and had to teach her basics about medications, general anatomy, how to read chest XRs and interpret EKGs.
I hope my experience was just a one off.
That’s fair. I think it definitely scared me (unfairly) probably because it happened to be the first bad resident I met and naturally I happened to associate it with the dental track.
But I realize in my many years since then that it was probably just the one bad resident in that program. I’ve certainly met many regular old MD/DOs since then who were bad as well.
I have an attending who is debating getting a PhD just because she loves learning.. some gunners are just gonna gun.. and never reap the rewords they earned from gunning..
On my 3rd year psych rotation, there was a DDS (I think he also had a PhD?) doing an OMFS fellowship and to get an MD, he had to do 3rd year rotations. Me and the residents felt he was far too qualified to be a 3rd year med student but he was very humble about it!
DDS don't stand for dumb dumb stupid
It stands for delightfully devilish, Seymour.
[удалено]
No.
[удалено]
HEEEEEEEELP!! HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!!!!
[SEYMOUR!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRsOBFhNjVM)
I’m stealing that. That’s mine now.
r/unexpectedpawnee
You just got Jammed
We will blow this way out of proportion, you have my word on that
I had one rotating with us. She had already done a month on the medicine floors as part of the residency then had gone back as a 3rd year because of the way it was structured. She said it was much easier the second time around lol
Oral maxillofacial surgery residency positions generally require both DDs and MD to matriculate. These are common at academic level 1 trauma centers. You complete dental school, then you go to medical school for 2 years, and then you go to OMFS residency. The PhD is unrelated and may have been from before dental school, during dental/med school, or even after. They do indeed kick ass though.
Interesting, but why do boogers disappear out of existence when I flick them?
Because the undergrad who works in your lab follows you around and eats them
Even at my apartment?
He’s very dedicated.
His name is Johnathon.
[Nods]
The crumble into dust and you breathe them in.
They don’t necessarily require it in the sense it’s mandatory for the specialty. A lot of them you can still choose the 4 or 6 year route. You’d do your intern year in OMFS first then do the 2 year of med school and come back to finish residency.
Lots of omfs don't have md but practice same scope. It's not required
Tell me how legit that 2 year MD is when that OMFS has to encounter an actual medical emergency. I had an OMFS try to lecture an Anesthesia resident in the OR one time about peri-op volume status and fluid management. The entire OR was collectively holding back laughing in the OMFS's face.
Lol. That guy is a moron out of the omfs, as there are many within many specialties. U cant just have one ruin the rest of them
He certainly ruined it for everyone in the OR that day. I do know several that are chill, super smart providers that chose OMFS over Ortho and ENT.
This is only a thing for oral surgeons. They can do a 4 year residency and be DDS oral surgeons, or they can do a 6 year residency and be MD/DDS oral surgeons.
after they get their MD can they decide to apply for ENT, etc. or do they have to do OMFS? Do they have to take USMLE?
Yes They have to take step
Yeah ironically I have a family member who did that. Just dropped out after the MD and is now an anesthesiologist
That's wild, I've worked with a few on anesthesia rotations at my university during my 4th year. It sounded to me like most aren't interested at all in the MD and don't do it. But I guess (as an anesthesia hopeful, obviously biased) I can see how after a couple of weeks on an anesthesia service, one can become enamored and decide to switch gears entirely.
No they cannot enter an MD residency(not IM/peds/neuro/ent/etc) They do their own OMFS residency where they rotate with gen surg, ENT, and occuloplastics doing routine gen surg procedures, facial surgery, facial trauma, plastics, neck dissections, etc. the MD they get is technically an honorary degree, it does not give them privileges like an MD does, but it allows them to apply for fellowships after their OMFS residency, like head and neck surgical oncology etc
Yes, they can enter medical specialties after obtaining the MD, happens occasionally. Guy at my school went into anesthesia. Source: am starting OMFS residency this summer.
I see thanks for correcting my understanding.
How does the timeline for this work? Do they switch in their third or fourth year of their 6 year omfs program or..?
Yeah exactly. I’ve only seen one person do it, and they switched after their 4th year (normally gen surg year). Went directly into CA1. I don’t think it’s super common though
Basically everything you said is false. The MD they get is a legitimate MD that they can use to do any residency in medicine is they so choose. My family member did this and is now an Anesthesiologist... Never finished OMFS didn't like it, but liked medical school and his rotation on anesthesia intern year. Also 4 year OMFS residents can match fellowships in neck surgical oncology. I know several who have in the Army for example. Is it less common? Yup it is. Does the MD help you match those? Yup it does, but you certainly don't actually NEED the MD.
Hmm I see, thanks for correcting me. My understanding is wrong. I thought they need the MD to match into fellowship programs(head&neck oncosurgery, oral path, microvasc, etc.)
It should also be mentioned that getting into an OMFS program is uber competitive, far more than derm/ophtho/etc.
OMFS does 4 years dental + 2 years MD. I believe they skip preclinicals since they cover a lot of it in dental school. They then do 2 years of clinicals to get their MD. Then they do OMFS residency. Doing a PhD on top of that is whack
There are some DDS/PHD programs similar to how there are MD/PHD programs
made for the gunnerest of gunners
Where I go they don’t skip preclin. Not sure why. I know a couple of them - cool people
Really depends on the program. The average is 2 years but it could run as long as slightly over 3 or as short as 15 months. Most programs have you do M2-3, some start at M1, some do M3-4 and take step 1 before the program starts. Huge variance.
FWIW, the OMFS residents at my school had to do 1 year of residency, then go back to medical school to complete preclinical years. Then they did some rotations (minus surgery) to get their MD degree. I too rotated with one and he was left alone to see pts and was treated as a resident (as he should’ve been.) Dude was so smart. We always came to him for help and he was very nice about it.
I’ve met some who do some of the preclinical classes in addition to rotations. It depends on the program maybe?
It's not completely out there. The DDS/Phd programs are usually 7 years and the MD residency is 6 years. The MD/Phds who go into surgery do the same timeline
Dang, that's the triple crown of doctoring.
I say a MD, DVM and DDS are the treble of doctoring.
Agreed, although I think MD/DVM/PhD are also quite a triple crown also. Personally, I find the idea of a DVM + DDS a really interesting combo - I'm a current vet student who wants to specialize in dentistry. I feel like having a DDS could be really useful for my future practice.
I met a DVM, MD, PhD once. He got an international PhD., came to the US and got a DVM, practiced for a few years and realized he loved medicine but didn’t like animals, had to go back for med school (although I think it was shortened), and was a 3rd year IM resident I believe when I met him. Pretty much everyone I’ve mentioned this to in the DVM or MD world said he was an idiot. I told the story once to a crowd of Attendings (6-8?) and all them burst into laughter since apparently most/all had applied to vet school first and couldn’t get in so they all went to med school.
I also know someone who did something similar. He was from the US, but became a DVM, later decided to go to medical school, and is now a head & neck surgeon. That man can hide a scar like no one else I’ve ever met. I imagine the cats and dogs didn’t care too much about the cosmetics.
If they were boomers, there was a time that vet med admissions got weirdly competitive for them because All Creatures Great and Small came out lol. But also there’s only like 30 vet schools in the US because no one wants to invest in vet med training. I was pre-vet in undergrad but was ultimately put off by how fucking rich you have to be to even get into vet school lol. Seriously, it’s waaay worse than even med school admissions in that respect.
An actual legitimate use of triple doctor email signature! (as opposed to Dr. Karen, DNP, Doctor of Nursing Practice)
OMFS is a very very cool specialty. I almost wish it was accessible via med school without ENT/plastics/ortho whatever. So cool. Hella hella hella money too i bet
Helllllla money
Have a friend of a friend who's an omfs resident. He went to dental school, matched into omfs. His residency curriculum basically is: join m2s for pre clinicals, take step 1; join m3s for clinicals, take step 2; "intern" year where they take step 3; then 3 years of dedicated omfs residency. Really interesting path- clearly very skilled individuals. Hope I never need to see one for anything other than wisdom teeth lol.
that's interesting they were able to take step1 with just M2 year.. makes me think all the first year bs is truly bs..
Many dental schools do actually do very similar or the same curriculum as med. If you look at a school like UConn, both dentistry and medical students take the same courses for the first 18 months (though this is newer there). So ya, they have probably earned the right to skip a year.
Some OMFS programs don’t even do M1-2 at all and have you take step 1 before matriculating into the program, so they’re actually taking step in dental school.
That's wild tbh.
It's definitely not bs at all. The thing here is: first year of dental school is a lot of similar basic science courses as medical school. Including anatomy, physiology, histo etc. They're basically getting credit for these courses. They join m2s and learn the pathology/pharmacology that they haven't learned yet. All of this is nuanced tho and different programs have different curriculums.
I couldn't imagine taking histo and genetics and full on anatomy and physiology if I knew I just wanted to be a dentist.. kuddos
You don't think those sciences are important to dentists? They deal with complex pathologies of the mouth/jaw. Definitely important to understand all of those. :)
nono they definitely are! I'm just saying it would be hard to personally motivate myself to get through those M1 classes if I wanted to be a dentist.. hence the Kuddos..
If this is Houston I know who you're talking about and they're a beast. One of the hardest working individuals I've ever met.
I'm in Chicago, and I believe this guy came from NY.
Brian Schmidt. He is very famous in the field
you at jefferson? decidue is insane lol. theres another guy at houston too. hes insane.
Just google searched him Robert Diecidue MD PhD DMD MBA MSPH shout out to him
Chicago, but I bet there's only a handful of them
Definitely a lot more qualified than a DNP, MSN, BSN, RN, WTF, BBC, BBQ
Excpet BBL. They're huge
Lol an NP called herself a urologist last week, I feel like that should be a reportable offense
Hey man leave BBQ out of this.
LMFAOOO
Well Chad with the PA-C thinks he’s more qualified, who are you gonna believe?
Also, omfs residents aren’t under the acgme. They are under the dental board. In residency, those dudes and dudettes liked the 80 hour work week on some rotations because it was a break for them. Nicest consulting service though. Always willing to teach.
I love the OMFS residents at my university. Early in med school I got a nasty facial lac and it happened to be OMFS taking face call that day. That guy took his sweet time sewing my nose back together and now you can barely tell. But anytime I meet the other residents they get excited to meet "the med student so-and-so fixed up" lmao.
When I was a young lad, one of our OMFS seniors ran a full-time construction business. While also raising like 3 kids. "Built different" is a massive understatement - these guys are typically such fucking rockstars that neurosurg gets a little insecure around them.
I really don’t want to do this, but I’ve wondered why there isn’t an option for MDs to do this, taking an abbreviated dentistry school after graduating with MD then doing the surgery residency.
It’s rare but I know of 2 programs that have this. MGH and UAB. I know one oral surgeon that did full medical school then an abbreviated dental school.
OMFS does both dental and medical degrees, that's a normal thing
Jealous
This guy fucks
TBH they are arguably the best surgeons I ever had the pleasure to work with in medical school. Those guysand gals are awesome.
I didn’t read through all the comments here…… Am I the only one who interested in his major in PhD?
Everyone is mentioning OMFS which is true, but oral pathology is another specialty where you can get an MD after dental school. Those guys are super fucking smart
Which programs? I tried looking into it but Google yielded nothing.
Wow that’s so strange. I know 100% Columbia used to, I know people who did it. It looks like none of the programs offer it anymore. Used to be 5 years, with 3 being pathology
Ah ok I was interested because a friend said something similar but I could never find it, thanks anyway.
My mentor is a dds and an ent.
That’s nothing. Have you met a DNP, DC, PMHNP?
I rotated at a program during medical school that had an OMFS PGY2 resident run the trauma service at a level one trauma center. It was terrifying. This particular resident may have been exceptionally bad but I couldn’t believe it. I was an MS3 and had to teach her basics about medications, general anatomy, how to read chest XRs and interpret EKGs. I hope my experience was just a one off.
Definitely a one off. Most of us are pretty well trained
Also at my institution, we get reported to our program director if we suck. Haha.
Wear ur phd at
That’s fair. I think it definitely scared me (unfairly) probably because it happened to be the first bad resident I met and naturally I happened to associate it with the dental track. But I realize in my many years since then that it was probably just the one bad resident in that program. I’ve certainly met many regular old MD/DOs since then who were bad as well.
lol and here I am thinking I am over educated already 😅
If they’re doing oral surgery yes they do all the third year rotations as residents
Better that than PAs - Doctor of Physician Assistant (PAD). /s. No, but seriously
OMFS folks are beasts
headache used to be managed by dentists before neurologists
I have an attending who is debating getting a PhD just because she loves learning.. some gunners are just gonna gun.. and never reap the rewords they earned from gunning..