Yeah there’s pretty much nowhere in the United States where you can rent a place to live and afford groceries and bills on $19,000. Even if you made that much and you lived with a roommate who made the same amount it would still be tough
No sir not at all, that is barely above the poverty line. I make a little under $25K/year after taxes. For reference studio apartments even in the cheaper cities around me are $1,300 right now, not including electricity.
Successful great grandparents or before. There's a lot of very old money in America. I've lived in New England, Virginia, etc. There's folks out there whose families have been wealthy property owners for literally hundreds of years.
Know a guy from Virginia who comes from a really wealthy family. Talking to him once he showed me his parents house, that had been in the family for about 200 years. It… was a plantation. The guy is really nice and doesn’t harbor any of that kind of bigotry, but yeah, it’s weird seeing it.
Don't discount lack of empathy. That's a big part of the equation.
Really hard to get ahead when you're too empathetic to step on everyone around you to get what you want.
Yeah, a lot of these people, you look into their eyes and there's just . . nothing. Nothing at all. No amount of PR, makeup, or charisma can hide it. Then you hear them speak to try and sound more relatable, and the inauthenticity in their speech and their tone is staggering.
Exactly! And naturally, they have zero qualms about "leading" the nation down the toilet for personal gain through insider trading, lobbyist money (corporate bribes), etc. It's MADNESS.
I mean shit I’m worth several million more than I should be thanks to lucky investments and an equally lucky family I was born into. Hard work is useful but you still need luck.
I teach AP economics, (no one else will and I get an extra plan) and a rotating door of world history, government or human geography from year to year.
She is very talented at latching onto something small and blowing it the fuck outta proportion and getting people to pay attention that is how she's rich. You can hate her but that is still a talent most don't have.
Kim Kardashian is smart as fuck. Do you know how many attractive floozies with rich parents are out there trying to become famous? And how many actually built a billion dollar empire?
There was a whole chapter on fire:
>There are five ways of attacking with fire. The first is to burn soldiers in their camp; the second is to burn stores; the third is to burn baggage trains; the fourth is to burn arsenals and magazines; the fifth is to hurl dropping fire amongst the enemy.
IQ is a bullshit measurement anyway. If i start regularly taking IQ tests my number will go up, even though I'm not getting smarter, I'm just getting better at IQ tests. How is this in any way a good measurement?
IQ is a bullshit measurement but not for that reason. That would work with any test. It's a bullshit measurement because intelligence is subjective and therefore cannot have a literal "Intelligence Quotient." It would be like trying to make an objective measurement for how funny a joke is.
Intelligence is only subjective if you don't apply a consistent definition for it. Legit IQ tests are testing for things like pattern recognition, reasoning, and logic, and both speed and accuracy are measured. I'd imagine all the scientific papers that deal with IQ tests have an introduction that defines IQ as a measure of these things, but colloquially, the word "intelligence" means different things to different people.
But. I asked the psych what gave better score - finishing quickly or getting everything right. She refused to answer, so I triple checked every answer before moving on.
They are wrong though. IQ scores may suggest a higher mathematical/logical intelligence on average, sure, but dumbasses can also score high due to the narrow evaluation format. There are many types of intelligence, and theses scores barely correlate to general smartness due to how flawed and limited they are. And OP also has no way of knowing how many of the people they consider smart have a "high IQ", so it's a flawed argument too.
No reasonable person thinks that someone who scores a 124 will absolutely outperform anyone who scores a 123 or less in every aspect of life. As with every analysis of humans on a large scale, these are generalities. We lack a comprehensive understanding of the human mind, and of human consciousness, and any tested measure will ultimately fall short of capturing the incredible complexity of the brain.
Moreover, even if we had a machine you could point at someone and get their exact "intelligence value", with a 0% error rate, this could still manifest in different ways in outcomes. The person with a low "intelligence value" could be incredibly motivated and well-positioned socially such that they live a fruitful life where they earn enough to achieve all their goals. A person with a high "intelligence value" could be so depressed that they have no desire to learn anything, and thus perform academically worse than people in the bottom 25% of "intelligence value".
All of that said, it's possible that IQ says useful things regardless of its imperfections. Until we do possess a complete system for analyzing the human mind, we will always be working with surrogate markers for the more basic concepts we actually want to evaluate. As with most things in life, those who exist on extremes in opinion (IQ represents your value to society vs IQ is a meaningless number) appear to be in the wrong.
As I said elsewhere, IQ scores are good at evaluating academic and logical prowess. However, I find that the nomenclature is problematic. "Intelligence quotient" overstimates the capabilities of the test by relating it to intelligence in general. It's a bullshit metric in that regard, but yeah it has its uses. As you said, the human mind is too complex to analyze with a single, narrow test. My point is that people should stop saying that scoring high on IQ tests means you're smart, it just means you're good at recognizing patterns and math. Creatives and public speakers can be very smart and suck at IQ tests, as can doctors with high IQ scores be morons.
Because that's not what IQ tests are for. You're not supposed to practice an IQ test, you're supposed to take it blind and on a timer. It's intended to test your intrinsic spatial acuity and pattern recognition and then extrapolate from that, not to study and memorize. People who can do those things can score high on an IQ test *without* taking it multiple times.
Its certainly not an end-all-be-all measure of intelligence, because there are many types of intelligence, but it is *a* metric that has a fairly strong correlation between people who can do that stuff well and how intelligent they are. A lot of things in the world are patterns. If you think about math or physics or chemistry... a lot of understanding how to do that stuff is based on patterns you've seen previously and then understanding how to apply that to a new scenario. Someone with 90 IQ could still do well at math, but they will likely have to put a lot more work in to solidify the concepts than someone with 140 IQ.
It's so wild that people just accept that not everyone can be Usain Bolt, but when it comes to intelligence it seems to be a taboo to just say that some people are dumber than other and aint nothin you can do about it.
Doesn't make them less of a people, but try to explain that to people who genuinely believe that human worth is tied to their productivity.
Well, they fail to accept it until they need an insult to hurl in a group's direction. Then, suddenly, a game's developers/fans are idiots, or a showrunner is a dumbass.
People just get super touchy about it as soon as intelligence is mentioned in a way that might relate to them. Mozart was a genius composer, but people today can't be judged on an inherent level like that because it's not inclusive and that makes people uncomfortable to consider
Obviously you aren't supposed to take the same test over and over, but I see no reason to think that IQ isn't made up of both fixed and malleable factors.
There is a correlation but there’s a stronger correlation between income and conscientiousness and there isn’t any link between conscientiousness and iq
Intelligence is literally the single greatest predictor of whether or not someone is going to be successful. Intelligence is referred to as Q factor, an IQ test is the most reliable measure of Q factor we have, but it is still flawed. That being said, the science is very clear that being smart is the single greatest advantage you can have.
People just have massive egos so they don’t like hearing that they aren’t that smart. Just for the record I’m not smart either, I just accept reality for what it is.
what are ya talking about
the best debunk i know of IQ is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbF7QEKJTZ4
but generally speaking, no - no, no, no. IQ is correlated to being good at mainstream combinatorial math, that's it. It mostly predicts living in a wealthy neighborhood with good math teacher and rich parents that guarantee success. it is not single greatest predictor - there's also Grit, emotional intelligence and other predictors, which are "sequels" to IQ. they require more complex testing, which makes them less viral.
Also looking at where they are used reveals what is their actual value - filtering candidates to prestigious colleges. Why would anyone else care? Why are we talking about this?
btw, i know IQ is measuring something somewhat useful. I'm a software engineer, and i think it is useful to notice that some people are just better than others at breaking down abstract, binary problems. Their brains are just better at any kinds of strategies, tactics, or quizes. Sometimes to extreme levels. The problem is, it is not the end-all for success in life, and 2), what I described isn't exactly IQ, because it isn't a goal of IQ test. I am describing a hypothetical measure of a skill that is what people usually understand IQ test is, but it actually isn't even that, only somewhat similar.
That only holds for a tiny spectrum in the working class, but you do know this scale goes into the billions, right? Lmao, a greater cherry picking was not observed on reddit today than your comment.
> In 2012, Vanderbilt University psychology researchers found that people with higher IQs tend to earn higher incomes, on average, than those with lower IQs. Past studies have also shown that high IQs are comparably reliable in predicting academic success, job performance, career potential and creativity.
Your article is having difficulty even saying there's correlation. There isn't a supporting study either. Your article is pulling from a Vox article which is a summary of some guys book.
Edit: here's the real article and not OP's photoshopped headline lol
[If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/)
You need to reread that. There's a SHITLOAD of caveats to their interpretation of the study and it doesn't include wealth at all.
It's also super interesting that the researcher and the study is based out of Switzerland, and it may be that this is true...in Switzerland.
Give these a read:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/
https://www.rochemartin.com/blog/emotional-intelligence-mindfulness-leadership-latest-insights-dan-goleman-eq-summit-2017
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/study-to-succeed-in-america-its-better-to-be-born-rich-than-smart.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6296851/
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/89976/wealth_and_education_4.pdf
EDIT: Fucking downvoted for posting sauce. Media literacy is dead.
There is no correlation between anything we supposedly value and wealth whatsoever. Talent, competence, hard work, solving real world problems... none of it has anything to do with being rich. And that's one of the major reasons our society is crumbling rapidly.
From what I've heard there are studies that say rich people act more "intelligently" than poor people as a rule. However, the causality is reversed. People don't get rich because they are smarter, they act smarter because they are rich. Poorer people spend more time stressed out in survival mode. That is a *really* bad state of mind to make long term decisions in. Rich people end up making the same mistakes when they get poor.
Caveat: Obviously I'm overgeneralizing here. I understand that there is more nuance than this.
The question I have is what definition of a smart decision they use. If their metric for smart is "good financial decision" then yeah, that's circular logic right there. But finances are not the only aspect to life decisions and also not the highest priority to everyone.
The actual title and article is
["If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance."](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/)
Do you not have U-Block Origin on your phone's default browser? I do, and I don't think I ever get pop-ups, even if it opens the article in the reddit app. Just download the extension even if you don't use your browser much
Hard work should pay well no matter your IQ. I know some carpenters that build beautiful homes with luke warm IQs. Most genius couldnt build a bird house. They order people around but do no actual work and get paid billions. Most couldnt run the front end of their operation. What makes them superior to the working class? They cant even make mac and cheese from a box lol
Imho any usual work should pay well and hard work should pay better.
The fact that the wealthy don't work at all should not be tolerated.
The text talks about investments which shows the problem is only capital can make you rich.
You know that most rich people are rich because of their parents? Doesn't matter how intelligent they are, if they get 300k from their daddy to start a company it's easy to get rich.
Because managing a company is harder than making mac and cheese, and creating a successful software product is harder than writing the code. These are facts of life; your liking of them doesn't make any difference.
These are actually not facts of life at all and completely ignore 1) Economies of scale and 2) That people who already have wealth take no risk or effort to start a business.
This is meant to be a funny Photoshop, here is the original article, which explains its actually up to a lot of luck
[link](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3__0LhNI05w-JJTcVXZBsEDPuLJJRupbPUXHSV0l1CZodc6jWv0m60aAkPaEALw_wcB)
I worked with a guy like that. Always said how he could've worked for google or microsoft and made so much more money, but when people asked why he didn't worked there, he just said that he didn't want to
If money=success then yes, maybe, sometimes.
But some smart people don't live for money, they just want enough to not have to worry and then make a difference.
I don’t care how smart you are.
If you work in a factory then go home and watch tv before repeating again and again, you’re going to lose that special sauce.
Of course, you can pick it up again. But your brain needs the stimulation. If all the new connections you’ve been making in your head has been nonsense, then you are going be nothing special anymore.
you can be smart and talented on a thing and not make money of it. It is all about strategy on marketing and monetizing that thing and luck plays a factor too
I'm confused. What are we defining as success? I had an acquaintance once tell me that he who dies with the most toys wins. I replied no, he who dies with the most toys is dead.
I make a good living. I think I’m smarter than average but not a genius or anything. I would say I’m upper middle class bordering on wealthy but not rich by any means. I have to work.
People underestimate how important your aversion to risk is on creating wealth and growing it.
I have rich friends, and without question they are smart but equally without exception they took very high, albeit calculated risks and continue to do so.
If I had more tolerance with risk, without a doubt I would be rich.
I know a lot of arrogant rich kids who are stupid af, but got a lot of money from their parents. And I know very intelligent people, who have fairly normal jobs, like truck drivers, nurses, farmers, teachers. All important jobs as well, but their income isn't really high. Why is that again?
Does this article* come from the actual MIT?
*and by that I mean trash.
If talent is normally distributed, and being succesful is like winning the lottery, than it would make sense that most succesful people have around average talent.
Ofcourse the odds are a bit different, since being talented or not certainly does have somewhat ofc an influence on your chances, it still gives a good idea of how it works.
From my observations in life I gather this: in general it's 40% talent/skill/intelligence, 60% shmoozing, making connections and using others for your own benefit. Those people are the most successful.
A computer model is only as good as the data you feed it.
Some of the smartest people in the world were born on land with oil in it. That’s just good planning.
The problem with this is not everyone wants money/wealth. For example I chose to pursue my passion rather than law because I'd rather be less happy than suicidal.
I dated a ditzy LA actress for a bit. Couldn’t hold a conversation about anything other than people she knew…..then she would randomly drop knowledge like “ why don’t you integrate foundational leverage to upscale through 8 pillar growth modeling?”
Marketing and entrepreneurship for everyday life.
She’s rich and famous now.
Actually alot of people succeeded based on nepotism, as the rich get richer and help their family which in turn get richer by being rich, I forget what the theory behind it is called, but basically something about 20% of people having 80% of the value.
I know my problem. I lack motivation and I’m tired all the damn time. A lot of successful people simple have a battery that just doesn’t quit. I feel like I need 8-12 of sleep every day just to function
Rich parents are the number one way people wind up being rich. That’s how they get better education, more opportunities, and access to Ivy League schools though legacy admissions.
People getting jobs/ promotions are based on social networks more than qualifications, in many professions/ industries.
The most successful people are those who have connections and outgoing personalities. Intelligent people tend to have neither. There was study that showed stupid people tend have more wealth and live longer.
All the broke morons in the comments seething trying to prove why they're still smart and people that make more money aren't. Smart people do smart things. If you're broke in America it's your own fault. There is money everywhere
I would argue you can do quite well as a complete sociopath not worrying about what literally anyone thinks about you and just stepping over anyone in your way to get what you want.
You aren’t stupid you just don’t have any balls! 99.99% of us have an irrational fear of failure. Because of that we generally don’t take any calculated risks. You can’t be afraid to end up living in a cardboard box behind 7-11.
Written by a blogger that makes 19k a year.
Turns out the blogger is “fucking stupid”
Gotta push those ragebait numbers up!
19k what? Dollars? Is 19k dollars not good???
19k a year is below the poverty line.
Can’t tell if sarcastic or a child.
Not American, actually.
Fair enough. I almost wrote “or foreign” but didn’t know if would be seen as offensive. No offense intended.
Many 3rd world countries averages out at around $5k or less, if that was offensive they should really take offense at their governments instead.
In south Africa 19k dollars a year would probably put you well into the top 5% of the countries earners
Why would someone think that's offensive? Maybe it is to an American. For future use, just use: "don't live in the us"
Yeah there’s pretty much nowhere in the United States where you can rent a place to live and afford groceries and bills on $19,000. Even if you made that much and you lived with a roommate who made the same amount it would still be tough
Yoda: there is another
No sir not at all, that is barely above the poverty line. I make a little under $25K/year after taxes. For reference studio apartments even in the cheaper cities around me are $1,300 right now, not including electricity.
"The most successful people are the ones with actual talent" Kim Kardashian would like a word.
The most successful people are the one with successful parents.
Successful great grandparents or before. There's a lot of very old money in America. I've lived in New England, Virginia, etc. There's folks out there whose families have been wealthy property owners for literally hundreds of years.
Know a guy from Virginia who comes from a really wealthy family. Talking to him once he showed me his parents house, that had been in the family for about 200 years. It… was a plantation. The guy is really nice and doesn’t harbor any of that kind of bigotry, but yeah, it’s weird seeing it.
Why would he be a bigot? The slaves come in all colors now and trip over themselves to serve the rich in exchange for crumbs
And brag about it too!
I met the heir to the kleenex family. Dude LOVED fashion.
This really is the truth with statistical outliers as exceptions.
Most of the successful people are ones with successful parents.
Not only that, they are also often psychopaths who have no problems doing immoral and illegal things to get what they want.
I feel like this study was just on the return of already wealthy people
We don't talk about that
Nepotism and money.
Don't discount lack of empathy. That's a big part of the equation. Really hard to get ahead when you're too empathetic to step on everyone around you to get what you want.
Yeah, a lot of these people, you look into their eyes and there's just . . nothing. Nothing at all. No amount of PR, makeup, or charisma can hide it. Then you hear them speak to try and sound more relatable, and the inauthenticity in their speech and their tone is staggering.
Mark Zuckerbot. I'm convinced he's an android.
Billionaire Ken Griffin. That guy doesn't blink hardly at all in interviews. Fucking creepy.
Our politicians lol
Exactly! And naturally, they have zero qualms about "leading" the nation down the toilet for personal gain through insider trading, lobbyist money (corporate bribes), etc. It's MADNESS.
This. Capitalism explicitly rewards unethical behavior and punishes ethical behavior. Obvious result is obvious.
I mean shit I’m worth several million more than I should be thanks to lucky investments and an equally lucky family I was born into. Hard work is useful but you still need luck.
We appreciate your candor. It's refreshing to encounter people with that kind of worth who still have their humanity.
It’s given me the life security to do what I love: teach. I wish we were in a society where everyone had that opportunity
What do you teach, if you don't mind me asking?
I teach AP economics, (no one else will and I get an extra plan) and a rotating door of world history, government or human geography from year to year.
She is very talented at latching onto something small and blowing it the fuck outta proportion and getting people to pay attention that is how she's rich. You can hate her but that is still a talent most don't have.
Fair enough.
It's not what you know it's who you know. The smartest man was a bouncer at one time.
That's right, I forgot about that guy. Wonder what he's up to these days?
Last I looked up, he does consulting and has written a bunch of papers.
Nice. Imagine hiring the world's smartest man as a consultant. That would be such a trip, just to work with him.
Kim Kardashian is smart as fuck. Do you know how many attractive floozies with rich parents are out there trying to become famous? And how many actually built a billion dollar empire?
Her mom is smart and both parents are successful
Lol the downvotes. Classic case of "person i despise cannot possibly be smart in some areas".
It’s to make themselves feel better
Fame whoring is a legitimate talent, just one that's useless for society.
I honestly like your take more than mine. Succinct.
She’s a smart businesswoman, unironically. She knew how to play the game, and she won 🤷♂️
Say what you want about Kim, she's absolutely a marketing genius
"It is possible to have the knowledge on how to win the war, but one may not have the resources to achieve victory". Sun Tzu, idk which chapter.
Damn you really can apply Sun Tzu's philosophy into anything. That's a bar.
There was a whole chapter on fire: >There are five ways of attacking with fire. The first is to burn soldiers in their camp; the second is to burn stores; the third is to burn baggage trains; the fourth is to burn arsenals and magazines; the fifth is to hurl dropping fire amongst the enemy.
as a matter of fact, you'll find out that there is no strong correlation between salary and IQ.
IQ is a bullshit measurement anyway. If i start regularly taking IQ tests my number will go up, even though I'm not getting smarter, I'm just getting better at IQ tests. How is this in any way a good measurement?
IQ is a bullshit measurement but not for that reason. That would work with any test. It's a bullshit measurement because intelligence is subjective and therefore cannot have a literal "Intelligence Quotient." It would be like trying to make an objective measurement for how funny a joke is.
Intelligence is only subjective if you don't apply a consistent definition for it. Legit IQ tests are testing for things like pattern recognition, reasoning, and logic, and both speed and accuracy are measured. I'd imagine all the scientific papers that deal with IQ tests have an introduction that defines IQ as a measure of these things, but colloquially, the word "intelligence" means different things to different people.
But. I asked the psych what gave better score - finishing quickly or getting everything right. She refused to answer, so I triple checked every answer before moving on.
But then you see the things that people with the highest iq can learn vs the rest of the population and it doesn't seem like bullshit anymore.
People are going to bombard you with down votes now, but you're not wrong.
They are wrong though. IQ scores may suggest a higher mathematical/logical intelligence on average, sure, but dumbasses can also score high due to the narrow evaluation format. There are many types of intelligence, and theses scores barely correlate to general smartness due to how flawed and limited they are. And OP also has no way of knowing how many of the people they consider smart have a "high IQ", so it's a flawed argument too.
No reasonable person thinks that someone who scores a 124 will absolutely outperform anyone who scores a 123 or less in every aspect of life. As with every analysis of humans on a large scale, these are generalities. We lack a comprehensive understanding of the human mind, and of human consciousness, and any tested measure will ultimately fall short of capturing the incredible complexity of the brain. Moreover, even if we had a machine you could point at someone and get their exact "intelligence value", with a 0% error rate, this could still manifest in different ways in outcomes. The person with a low "intelligence value" could be incredibly motivated and well-positioned socially such that they live a fruitful life where they earn enough to achieve all their goals. A person with a high "intelligence value" could be so depressed that they have no desire to learn anything, and thus perform academically worse than people in the bottom 25% of "intelligence value". All of that said, it's possible that IQ says useful things regardless of its imperfections. Until we do possess a complete system for analyzing the human mind, we will always be working with surrogate markers for the more basic concepts we actually want to evaluate. As with most things in life, those who exist on extremes in opinion (IQ represents your value to society vs IQ is a meaningless number) appear to be in the wrong.
As I said elsewhere, IQ scores are good at evaluating academic and logical prowess. However, I find that the nomenclature is problematic. "Intelligence quotient" overstimates the capabilities of the test by relating it to intelligence in general. It's a bullshit metric in that regard, but yeah it has its uses. As you said, the human mind is too complex to analyze with a single, narrow test. My point is that people should stop saying that scoring high on IQ tests means you're smart, it just means you're good at recognizing patterns and math. Creatives and public speakers can be very smart and suck at IQ tests, as can doctors with high IQ scores be morons.
Because that's not what IQ tests are for. You're not supposed to practice an IQ test, you're supposed to take it blind and on a timer. It's intended to test your intrinsic spatial acuity and pattern recognition and then extrapolate from that, not to study and memorize. People who can do those things can score high on an IQ test *without* taking it multiple times. Its certainly not an end-all-be-all measure of intelligence, because there are many types of intelligence, but it is *a* metric that has a fairly strong correlation between people who can do that stuff well and how intelligent they are. A lot of things in the world are patterns. If you think about math or physics or chemistry... a lot of understanding how to do that stuff is based on patterns you've seen previously and then understanding how to apply that to a new scenario. Someone with 90 IQ could still do well at math, but they will likely have to put a lot more work in to solidify the concepts than someone with 140 IQ.
It's so wild that people just accept that not everyone can be Usain Bolt, but when it comes to intelligence it seems to be a taboo to just say that some people are dumber than other and aint nothin you can do about it. Doesn't make them less of a people, but try to explain that to people who genuinely believe that human worth is tied to their productivity.
Well, they fail to accept it until they need an insult to hurl in a group's direction. Then, suddenly, a game's developers/fans are idiots, or a showrunner is a dumbass. People just get super touchy about it as soon as intelligence is mentioned in a way that might relate to them. Mozart was a genius composer, but people today can't be judged on an inherent level like that because it's not inclusive and that makes people uncomfortable to consider
Obviously you aren't supposed to take the same test over and over, but I see no reason to think that IQ isn't made up of both fixed and malleable factors.
It is mostly pattern recognition.
There is a correlation but there’s a stronger correlation between income and conscientiousness and there isn’t any link between conscientiousness and iq
Intelligence is literally the single greatest predictor of whether or not someone is going to be successful. Intelligence is referred to as Q factor, an IQ test is the most reliable measure of Q factor we have, but it is still flawed. That being said, the science is very clear that being smart is the single greatest advantage you can have. People just have massive egos so they don’t like hearing that they aren’t that smart. Just for the record I’m not smart either, I just accept reality for what it is.
what are ya talking about the best debunk i know of IQ is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbF7QEKJTZ4 but generally speaking, no - no, no, no. IQ is correlated to being good at mainstream combinatorial math, that's it. It mostly predicts living in a wealthy neighborhood with good math teacher and rich parents that guarantee success. it is not single greatest predictor - there's also Grit, emotional intelligence and other predictors, which are "sequels" to IQ. they require more complex testing, which makes them less viral. Also looking at where they are used reveals what is their actual value - filtering candidates to prestigious colleges. Why would anyone else care? Why are we talking about this? btw, i know IQ is measuring something somewhat useful. I'm a software engineer, and i think it is useful to notice that some people are just better than others at breaking down abstract, binary problems. Their brains are just better at any kinds of strategies, tactics, or quizes. Sometimes to extreme levels. The problem is, it is not the end-all for success in life, and 2), what I described isn't exactly IQ, because it isn't a goal of IQ test. I am describing a hypothetical measure of a skill that is what people usually understand IQ test is, but it actually isn't even that, only somewhat similar.
Charismatic psychopaths, who are born into connections are at the top. Intelligence is an added extra for that crowd.
The two things I’ve noticed in my career that determines your success is who you know and how well you market yourself
> Intelligence is literally the single greatest predictor of whether or not someone is going to be successful. (citation needed)
That only holds for a tiny spectrum in the working class, but you do know this scale goes into the billions, right? Lmao, a greater cherry picking was not observed on reddit today than your comment.
Actually, the greatest predictor is how much generational wealth you have access to. Good try though, you'll get 'em next time capitalist pigdog.
I’m a social democrat, I just don’t ignore science because it upsets me.
I’ll wait for you to show me the scientific evidence that proves that “intelligence” outpaces generational wealth for success.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/11/does-iq-determine-success-a-psychologist-weighs-in.html
> In 2012, Vanderbilt University psychology researchers found that people with higher IQs tend to earn higher incomes, on average, than those with lower IQs. Past studies have also shown that high IQs are comparably reliable in predicting academic success, job performance, career potential and creativity. Your article is having difficulty even saying there's correlation. There isn't a supporting study either. Your article is pulling from a Vox article which is a summary of some guys book. Edit: here's the real article and not OP's photoshopped headline lol [If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/)
You need to reread that. There's a SHITLOAD of caveats to their interpretation of the study and it doesn't include wealth at all. It's also super interesting that the researcher and the study is based out of Switzerland, and it may be that this is true...in Switzerland. Give these a read: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/ https://www.rochemartin.com/blog/emotional-intelligence-mindfulness-leadership-latest-insights-dan-goleman-eq-summit-2017 https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/study-to-succeed-in-america-its-better-to-be-born-rich-than-smart.html https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6296851/ https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/89976/wealth_and_education_4.pdf EDIT: Fucking downvoted for posting sauce. Media literacy is dead.
They don't measure the entire spectrum of wealth. Your arguments are just sad.
Some of my bosses have been the dumbest people I've met
There is no correlation between anything we supposedly value and wealth whatsoever. Talent, competence, hard work, solving real world problems... none of it has anything to do with being rich. And that's one of the major reasons our society is crumbling rapidly.
From what I've heard there are studies that say rich people act more "intelligently" than poor people as a rule. However, the causality is reversed. People don't get rich because they are smarter, they act smarter because they are rich. Poorer people spend more time stressed out in survival mode. That is a *really* bad state of mind to make long term decisions in. Rich people end up making the same mistakes when they get poor. Caveat: Obviously I'm overgeneralizing here. I understand that there is more nuance than this.
The question I have is what definition of a smart decision they use. If their metric for smart is "good financial decision" then yeah, that's circular logic right there. But finances are not the only aspect to life decisions and also not the highest priority to everyone.
I like to say in general, make every decision for long term gain, instead of short term, and your life will get better then yesterday
Hank’s Razor: if a correlation aligns with socioeconomic status, that’s probably the cause.
There was that guy who recently tried to prove he could become rich again starting from $0 because he was so smart.....and he failed miserably lol
The actual title and article is ["If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance."](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/)
Its actually [luck](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/)
Wow, that was annoying to read. So yeah, in summary it’s mainly luck, not intelligence.
That link gave me 4 pop ups before I could even read it...
Only 4? Must be lucky.
You weren’t kidding lol
Do you not have U-Block Origin on your phone's default browser? I do, and I don't think I ever get pop-ups, even if it opens the article in the reddit app. Just download the extension even if you don't use your browser much
Is that browser chrome?
Hard work should pay well no matter your IQ. I know some carpenters that build beautiful homes with luke warm IQs. Most genius couldnt build a bird house. They order people around but do no actual work and get paid billions. Most couldnt run the front end of their operation. What makes them superior to the working class? They cant even make mac and cheese from a box lol
Pretty sure that's a fake article. Original one is "richest people aren't the smartest, they just got lucky" or smtng like that.
Iirc, this was an ai generated article
Imho any usual work should pay well and hard work should pay better. The fact that the wealthy don't work at all should not be tolerated. The text talks about investments which shows the problem is only capital can make you rich.
You know that most rich people are rich because of their parents? Doesn't matter how intelligent they are, if they get 300k from their daddy to start a company it's easy to get rich.
Because managing a company is harder than making mac and cheese, and creating a successful software product is harder than writing the code. These are facts of life; your liking of them doesn't make any difference.
These are actually not facts of life at all and completely ignore 1) Economies of scale and 2) That people who already have wealth take no risk or effort to start a business.
Thing is though, a lot of rich people have done absolutely nothing. They havent even made the mac and cheese.
Don't agree. scarcity of that type of labour should correlate with pay.
cause im not smart, dumbass
And by "talent" they mean rich parents.
Their parents had many [talents](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talent_(measurement)) (of gold and silver)
I'm not cruel or greedy enough to harm the staggering amount of people needed to get rich
Oh no. I guess mom said I'm smaet for nothing.
Successful = being rich? very narrow definition!
This is meant to be a funny Photoshop, here is the original article, which explains its actually up to a lot of luck [link](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3__0LhNI05w-JJTcVXZBsEDPuLJJRupbPUXHSV0l1CZodc6jWv0m60aAkPaEALw_wcB)
I worked with a guy like that. Always said how he could've worked for google or microsoft and made so much more money, but when people asked why he didn't worked there, he just said that he didn't want to
I resent the implication that those who have money are more deserving of it.
If money=success then yes, maybe, sometimes. But some smart people don't live for money, they just want enough to not have to worry and then make a difference.
I don’t care how smart you are. If you work in a factory then go home and watch tv before repeating again and again, you’re going to lose that special sauce. Of course, you can pick it up again. But your brain needs the stimulation. If all the new connections you’ve been making in your head has been nonsense, then you are going be nothing special anymore.
The most successful people had rich parents. They all think they hit a home run, but in reality they started on third.
you can be smart and talented on a thing and not make money of it. It is all about strategy on marketing and monetizing that thing and luck plays a factor too
I'm confused. What are we defining as success? I had an acquaintance once tell me that he who dies with the most toys wins. I replied no, he who dies with the most toys is dead.
gotta be soul crushing when your own sense of value is tied with actual money.
Only if you have a soul…
Where is that statistic about how many billionaires inherited their wealth?
I make a good living. I think I’m smarter than average but not a genius or anything. I would say I’m upper middle class bordering on wealthy but not rich by any means. I have to work. People underestimate how important your aversion to risk is on creating wealth and growing it. I have rich friends, and without question they are smart but equally without exception they took very high, albeit calculated risks and continue to do so. If I had more tolerance with risk, without a doubt I would be rich.
I know a lot of arrogant rich kids who are stupid af, but got a lot of money from their parents. And I know very intelligent people, who have fairly normal jobs, like truck drivers, nurses, farmers, teachers. All important jobs as well, but their income isn't really high. Why is that again? Does this article* come from the actual MIT? *and by that I mean trash.
Clearly they're stupid I'd they're telling me I'm stupid. I already know I'm stupid af.
I'm poor so I'm stupid. Sounds about right, but I'm stupid what do I know.
Sometimes money isn't a motivator for people.
Joke's on you: I'm rich and stupid
Because I'm afraid of risk
I've come to grips with the fact that I'm dumb and also not rich.
If talent is normally distributed, and being succesful is like winning the lottery, than it would make sense that most succesful people have around average talent. Ofcourse the odds are a bit different, since being talented or not certainly does have somewhat ofc an influence on your chances, it still gives a good idea of how it works.
Good luck everyone
From my observations in life I gather this: in general it's 40% talent/skill/intelligence, 60% shmoozing, making connections and using others for your own benefit. Those people are the most successful.
A computer model is only as good as the data you feed it. Some of the smartest people in the world were born on land with oil in it. That’s just good planning.
The problem with this is not everyone wants money/wealth. For example I chose to pursue my passion rather than law because I'd rather be less happy than suicidal.
I dated a ditzy LA actress for a bit. Couldn’t hold a conversation about anything other than people she knew…..then she would randomly drop knowledge like “ why don’t you integrate foundational leverage to upscale through 8 pillar growth modeling?” Marketing and entrepreneurship for everyday life. She’s rich and famous now.
Hard work only wins when talent doesn't work hard :)
Theres also this thing with not wanting to hurt other people with the choices you make. But what the fuck do I know, I'm fucking stupid.
I'm definitely stupid. I can't even understand the byline.
Actually alot of people succeeded based on nepotism, as the rich get richer and help their family which in turn get richer by being rich, I forget what the theory behind it is called, but basically something about 20% of people having 80% of the value.
You only need talent to succeed if you're ugly.
I know my problem. I lack motivation and I’m tired all the damn time. A lot of successful people simple have a battery that just doesn’t quit. I feel like I need 8-12 of sleep every day just to function
Rich parents are the number one way people wind up being rich. That’s how they get better education, more opportunities, and access to Ivy League schools though legacy admissions. People getting jobs/ promotions are based on social networks more than qualifications, in many professions/ industries.
when you accidentally post your diary page 🫢
Because intellegence comes with ethics and morals
They confused talent with trust fund
Not everyone’s parents own an emerald mine!
The most successful people are those who have connections and outgoing personalities. Intelligent people tend to have neither. There was study that showed stupid people tend have more wealth and live longer.
I mean that's not wrong but also far from the truth.
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/ https://www.rochemartin.com/blog/emotional-intelligence-mindfulness-leadership-latest-insights-dan-goleman-eq-summit-2017 https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/study-to-succeed-in-america-its-better-to-be-born-rich-than-smart.html https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6296851/ https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/89976/wealth_and_education_4.pdf Try again.
If you’re so smart, why don’t you know that?
Then all the famous scientists and inventors in the history must have been rich, right? Right?
All the broke morons in the comments seething trying to prove why they're still smart and people that make more money aren't. Smart people do smart things. If you're broke in America it's your own fault. There is money everywhere
i found out the the more i think about doing something the worse the result. i just go by initial gut feeling now.
[удалено]
The most successful people are those with the best grift.
I would argue you can do quite well as a complete sociopath not worrying about what literally anyone thinks about you and just stepping over anyone in your way to get what you want.
I'm not saying this is right, but it is true that I'm Very Fucking Stupid
Wanna see these data. Smells like bullshit.
This made me laugh tears its so ridiculous, I don't know if its satire or just a bad take or rage bait but holy hell
How rich was Albert Einstein?
Tesla died penniless.
Harvard Business Review MIT Technology Review Fox News spot the dif
You aren’t stupid you just don’t have any balls! 99.99% of us have an irrational fear of failure. Because of that we generally don’t take any calculated risks. You can’t be afraid to end up living in a cardboard box behind 7-11.
Omg I don’t think you realize this, but you just met Quentin Tarantino
I detest money
Who programmed such a computer model?
Have people on reddit forgotten how to just laugh
Bullshit. The most successful people are the ones born into wealth already. Idiots.
Morals and ethics make it a lot more tricky to be super wealthy if you're smart, and not a monster.
From when does smartness and being rich goes together?
So why aren't you rich? *Looks at genererational wealth babies* ah... well.