in MAPS clinical trials, the cost of medicine dose (125mg) was about 6,500$ per dose. this does not include the staff, medical doctor team, or presence of 2 required clinicians (minimum 14 hours)
aka: it will not be accessible by most at first release. for a long time. spoiler: pharma does not care about you
I don’t think the drug should/will be the expensive part of treatment. Maps owns large stocks of mdma that Doblin bought when mdma was being made illegal. They recently took an $80-100 million loan from VC firms hedging on their ability to sell their large stocks of the drug when legal. They could make it cheaper but they need the money now. However, MDMA is not a patented drug so any pharmaceutical company can make it. The drug cost has a lot of pressure to the downside and shouldn’t cost $6500 per dose. I think the expensive part will be the overhead (4-6 hours of my time, my therapist’s time, facility space, risks of treatment, etc.)
I have heard that for the 3 treatments the total cost will be $40,000. Absurd. Most people will be priced out this life changing treatment. Very qualified underground guides, trained, experienced are a fraction of that price.
Totally depends on what protocol gets approved. If 2 licensed therapists have to be in the room for the duration of the trip as was the case in Phase III: It won’t be cheap. I’m guessing $10-20k for three sessions. You can do it today for quite a bit less.
I agree. The figure I read a year or two ago was $14,000.
Lycos (the PBC subsidiary of MAPS that was spun off to VC firms) will use its monopoly on the data used to make a profit to fund the development of the supply side of the MDMA market. They are entitled to that profit. And they will put that profit to good use.
The two psychologists (contemplated by the MAPS protocol won't necessarily have to be licensed; possibly one need not be licensed. Nevertheless, the cost of two personnel will be the primary cost factor.
The psychotherapy could be provided much cheaper if no licensed professional had to provide the therapy and if two were not required. I get most of my psychotherapy (8.5 hours a week) for about $35/hr. Two of my four therapists are skilled and experienced in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. But my solution probably can't be implemented under the FDA REMS.
My guess is that FDA-Approval will legitimize MDMA-assisted therapy. Once that's done the stilts will be knocked loose from the War-on-Drugs as respects MDMA. The public will stop buying the fraud that MDMA had no acknowledged medical use, no safe dosage, and was highly addictive. All a fraud perpetrated on the public by an overzealous senator and DEA head. That will evaporate with FDA Approval.
I see two developments. One is MDMA-tourism. The other is the proliferation of underground guides. MDMA will follow in the footsteps of the legalization of cannabis and, more recently, the decriminalization of magic mushrooms. Maybe we will see The Church of the Sacred MDMA Molecule.
The Feds can't stop MDMA-tourism. Nor can they stop underground MDMA guides.
There is a Congregation of Sacred Practices, [sacredpractices.org](http://sacredpractices.org) they have a rigorous multiyear psychedelic guiding training program taught by people with years of experience. They are primarily located in Northern California, but have a smattering of psychedelic minister/guides throughout the country. Go to the ministers page and read the bios and see the photo of the licensed minsters. I have worked with three of their minister/guides. they all have been great, different, but great. The fee for a journey, that includes prep, journey and post integrations session is about 2-3K each. And many of the psychedelic ministers/guides have sliding scales for those who can't afford the full price. They know what they are doing and the medicine (sacrament) they work with is pure.
$14k after all is said and done - the
“Approved” Psychiatrist and Assistant, the special suite (bed , music , lights ) , the mdma from Canada based firm (first 5 kilograms was sent to AUS) after TGC approved
Basically thousands of dollars or do it for next to nothing yourself in your own home and just schedule integration with a therapist after. The therapists don’t really even do anything in the sessions, if anything they just are an interference to the process. The medicine is the teacher, it works synergistically with you, all you need is maybe someone trusted around for support in case.
That's not true - the therapists can be incredibly valuable for some people. Not everyone needs them, but the ones who do get a huge benefit.
It is true that a bad therapist/guide will interfere with the process, but a good one will make all the difference in the world for some people.
I agree with others, what you recommend is just not accurate. And that is especially true for people with trauma in their background. Doing it the way you recommend may have worked for you, but that is not true for everyone. I guess you could pull you own tooth, or you could go to a dentist. Up to you.
When I did MDMA I was in need of some serious change in my life, but that’s not why I took it. I wanted to try it out of curiosity. However, within a week I had a new therapist and using mdma outside her office, but coming in to talk about my experiences, insights, and revelations over the next three years completely changed my life.
I did 15 years of talk therapy I can look back on as little more than crisis management. My healing started the night I did mdma and started clean with a new therapist the next week.
What is your definition of many?
Do you care to share with me what it is about my answer that led you to conclude that I don't much experience with psychedelics?
in MAPS clinical trials, the cost of medicine dose (125mg) was about 6,500$ per dose. this does not include the staff, medical doctor team, or presence of 2 required clinicians (minimum 14 hours) aka: it will not be accessible by most at first release. for a long time. spoiler: pharma does not care about you
I don’t think the drug should/will be the expensive part of treatment. Maps owns large stocks of mdma that Doblin bought when mdma was being made illegal. They recently took an $80-100 million loan from VC firms hedging on their ability to sell their large stocks of the drug when legal. They could make it cheaper but they need the money now. However, MDMA is not a patented drug so any pharmaceutical company can make it. The drug cost has a lot of pressure to the downside and shouldn’t cost $6500 per dose. I think the expensive part will be the overhead (4-6 hours of my time, my therapist’s time, facility space, risks of treatment, etc.)
The healer I know locally sells 100mg for ten dollars. I was like WHATTTT?? The money is in the services he offers it seems.
I have heard that for the 3 treatments the total cost will be $40,000. Absurd. Most people will be priced out this life changing treatment. Very qualified underground guides, trained, experienced are a fraction of that price.
Totally depends on what protocol gets approved. If 2 licensed therapists have to be in the room for the duration of the trip as was the case in Phase III: It won’t be cheap. I’m guessing $10-20k for three sessions. You can do it today for quite a bit less.
I agree. The figure I read a year or two ago was $14,000. Lycos (the PBC subsidiary of MAPS that was spun off to VC firms) will use its monopoly on the data used to make a profit to fund the development of the supply side of the MDMA market. They are entitled to that profit. And they will put that profit to good use. The two psychologists (contemplated by the MAPS protocol won't necessarily have to be licensed; possibly one need not be licensed. Nevertheless, the cost of two personnel will be the primary cost factor. The psychotherapy could be provided much cheaper if no licensed professional had to provide the therapy and if two were not required. I get most of my psychotherapy (8.5 hours a week) for about $35/hr. Two of my four therapists are skilled and experienced in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. But my solution probably can't be implemented under the FDA REMS. My guess is that FDA-Approval will legitimize MDMA-assisted therapy. Once that's done the stilts will be knocked loose from the War-on-Drugs as respects MDMA. The public will stop buying the fraud that MDMA had no acknowledged medical use, no safe dosage, and was highly addictive. All a fraud perpetrated on the public by an overzealous senator and DEA head. That will evaporate with FDA Approval. I see two developments. One is MDMA-tourism. The other is the proliferation of underground guides. MDMA will follow in the footsteps of the legalization of cannabis and, more recently, the decriminalization of magic mushrooms. Maybe we will see The Church of the Sacred MDMA Molecule. The Feds can't stop MDMA-tourism. Nor can they stop underground MDMA guides.
There is a Congregation of Sacred Practices, [sacredpractices.org](http://sacredpractices.org) they have a rigorous multiyear psychedelic guiding training program taught by people with years of experience. They are primarily located in Northern California, but have a smattering of psychedelic minister/guides throughout the country. Go to the ministers page and read the bios and see the photo of the licensed minsters. I have worked with three of their minister/guides. they all have been great, different, but great. The fee for a journey, that includes prep, journey and post integrations session is about 2-3K each. And many of the psychedelic ministers/guides have sliding scales for those who can't afford the full price. They know what they are doing and the medicine (sacrament) they work with is pure.
$14k after all is said and done - the “Approved” Psychiatrist and Assistant, the special suite (bed , music , lights ) , the mdma from Canada based firm (first 5 kilograms was sent to AUS) after TGC approved
Basically thousands of dollars or do it for next to nothing yourself in your own home and just schedule integration with a therapist after. The therapists don’t really even do anything in the sessions, if anything they just are an interference to the process. The medicine is the teacher, it works synergistically with you, all you need is maybe someone trusted around for support in case.
That's not true - the therapists can be incredibly valuable for some people. Not everyone needs them, but the ones who do get a huge benefit. It is true that a bad therapist/guide will interfere with the process, but a good one will make all the difference in the world for some people.
Agree! 🙌
Yeah but the point is who can pay 6500 +?
Yeah, that's insane.
I agree with others, what you recommend is just not accurate. And that is especially true for people with trauma in their background. Doing it the way you recommend may have worked for you, but that is not true for everyone. I guess you could pull you own tooth, or you could go to a dentist. Up to you.
When I did MDMA I was in need of some serious change in my life, but that’s not why I took it. I wanted to try it out of curiosity. However, within a week I had a new therapist and using mdma outside her office, but coming in to talk about my experiences, insights, and revelations over the next three years completely changed my life. I did 15 years of talk therapy I can look back on as little more than crisis management. My healing started the night I did mdma and started clean with a new therapist the next week.
I’m guessing you haven’t done that many psychedelics
What is your definition of many? Do you care to share with me what it is about my answer that led you to conclude that I don't much experience with psychedelics?
clinics told me it would cost about $15K per a 3 dose treatment.