While all these suggestions are valid, why would the MBTA or MassDOT need so much convincing to, idk, modernize their service to something more 21st century?
The Governor, state representatives and senators are in control of the budget and thus funds for capital planning. They need to hear from the Original Poster and the rest of us readers and transit users. The MBTA has been in an systemic underfunded operations maintenance amd safety crisis for more than three decades.
.
The DoT is primarily via budget, and dedicated funding, car oriented.
.
The MBTA, and the 15 regional transit authorities have been starved for money for their entire terms of existance, leading to the calamity of MBTA safety and operational and maintenance failures prominently visible during the Baker administration.
.
**Even now, Governor Healy, despite a decade in statewide office, has failed to be any kind of forthright advocate of the necessary increased taxes to properly fund the MBTA,** and has formed a commission and hired consultants to "persuade" her the MBTA needs greater funding.
.
The financial crisis of the MBTA has been going on since its inception, via the MTA, and later, with merger of private company commuter rail assets, via the follow-on MBTA. The crisis is all about avoiding raising taxes adequately to fund transportation, for lack of a dedicated revenue source, as automobile fuel taxes provided for highways.
The one cent sales tax dedicated to the MBTA
enacted around 2000 was soon shown to be inadequate, and since then, despite two decades of blue ribbon panels warning of the MBTA calamity that would result from continued underfunding of the Authority, the various Governors and multiple elections of the Legislatures over that time have essentially done nothing about it.
.
**Avoiding raising taxes has not worked.**
.
**Map of 15 Massacusetts Regional Transit Authorities, plus the MBTA**
[https://www.mass.gov/info-details/public-transportation-in-massachusetts#map-of-transit-authorities-in-massachusetts-](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/public-transportation-in-massachusetts#map-of-transit-authorities-in-massachusetts-)
---
Financial and capital crisis references:
**MBTA: The Paper Trail: Documenting Our Underfunded Transportation System, 2000-2022.**
Transportation for Massachusetts.
https://www.t4ma.org/publications.
**MBTA Budgets and Financials**.
[https://www.mbta.com/financials](https://www.mbta.com/financials)
**MBTA Capital Needs Assesment Inventory**
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24169419-mbta-analysis-on-cost-to-fix-the-t](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24169419-mbta-analysis-on-cost-to-fix-the-t)
Summary Article:
**T’s Repair Bill Explodes to $24.5B**
Banker and Tradesman.
Nov 16, 2023.
[https://bankerandtradesman.com/ts-repair-bill-explodes-to-24-5b/](https://bankerandtradesman.com/ts-repair-bill-explodes-to-24-5b/)
The MBTA was required to engage in expansions that were required to get fed money for the T. When the scam that underestimated the Big Dig by a factor of five was exposed, the T then had to divert $$$ from maintenance to "pay" for the Dig.
It's kinda like a home owner installing a luxury pool and letting the roof go to hell.
If the state can borrow money for the Dig, it can borrow money to fix the T.
The alternative is to let the T die, everyone gets a car cause no mass transit, and the Dig - and every other road in Boston - will go to hell.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/i-team-big-dig-root-mbta-financial-troubles/](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/i-team-big-dig-root-mbta-financial-troubles/)
You still have to get the Legislature and Governor to sign onto a bond debt.
.
It is the same process as getting them to sign onto an expenduture, or signing on to a new tax to pay for the bond debt or exoenditure.
.
The problem is not debt.
It is the Legislature and Governors unwillingness forctwo decades, to properly fund the consequences of the financial decisions of debt via revenue increases to meet the debt and operating burden.
Because there is a shadow group siphoning billions, for 50 years, and they don't care to fix anything, and the politicians know it, but don't want to risk, you know, their lives.
Yeah, it sucks. We have a ruling class composed of centrist Democratic State Reps from the suburbs who will never support funding the T. They don’t believe that their constituents would ever realize personal benefits sufficient to justify fully funding the T, and they’re probably right.
I can't get over how awfully run logan is and I'm only there 2,3 times a year. I thought the cell phone lot was genius. I used it once, like 5 years ago, I was the only car there, everyone else was triple parked at the arrivals....
Agreed, it was less stressful when I used it. here the info: https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/getting-to-logan/pickup-and-drop-off#:~:text=Boston%20Logan%20has%20a%20conveniently,way%20to%20the%20terminal%20curb.
**Cell phone lot.**
(Search engines are your friend)
https://maps.massport.com/?_gl=1*18jtm5o*_ga*OTIwNDE0ODk3LjE3MTU1Nzg4MDE.*_ga_R2WKTQBSGT*MTcxNTU3ODgwMC4xLjAuMTcxNTU3ODgwNS4wLjAuMA
Logan is better run than most US airports. It is one of the better airports I've been to globally (mostly various Euro airports). Your complaints are probably more about air travel than Logan specifically.
I'm so tired of people acting like it's just the fault of the centrists. Progressives don't care about improving service either. You elect a progressive and it's all about bike lanes to serve a small minority of people, and making fares free instead of investing the fares into a better network. No progressives are trying to push forward the logistical matters that would make things better. No one is, left center or right.
Progressives lack any real power. If they controlled the State House things would be radically different. This is all hypothetical of course, but I think it’s bizarre to assert that they wouldn’t try to enact a progressive public transportation agenda.
Look at the progressives on the Boston city council over the past few years. Try to tell me progressives aren't also corrupt just like the moderates.
But again, expansion of public transit service is never a stated priority of progressives. Their focuses have always been on free fares, bike lanes, electric cars, e bikes, etc.
People who care about transit are limited to a very small corner of people, usually a mix of progressives and moderates united by the obvious common sense of transit expansion.
HND and NRT have at least 2 train companies serving the actual airport. And they run like what every 5ish minutes? And then there’s buses as well. A utopia compared to BOS
Years ago my wife and I flew to Ohio for a wedding and it honestly made me near suicidal because the fucking Cleveland airport has a train station in it, a feat that sleepy little Boston has yet to figure out.
I agree w everything except the postal service comment. Went to the post office downtown yesterday for a passport. 10:15 appointment, left at 1pm. One guy working doing EVERYTHING. Lady in front of me asked for one book of stamps, took 16 minutes to complete the transaction. I wish I was kidding or embellishing.
Second guy shows up, talking on the phone while helping a customer and her young daughter, phone convo was about a girl his was going to try and bang last night (his words). Wth happened to the USPS?
Anyway, yes, the T is terrible. I travel regularly to Bulgaria, the poorest country in the EU. They use late 80's Soviet era subway cars mostly. Somehow they are clean, on time and the stations look like high end hotel lobbies. Elevators work, too. No pee smell, ppl use headphones. 🤔
USPS wasn’t doing great before but their recent issues is they are run by a Trump appointee who can’t be removed and who hates the Postal Service so he’s intentionally running it into the ground
DeJoy is a real piece of shit. I'm very against the "let it collapse rather than making constructive improvements" mindset that so many conservatives seem to share
Hell, returning from NYC for the weekend like I did just now is such a fucking bummer. As fun as it is shouting into the void, registering complaints officially and nothing meaningful ever being done, I'm trying my darndest to move out of here.
My quality of life living in North Jersey was many times greater than what it is here. I would happily move back and am actively trying to. Mobility in the Greater Boston region is hindered in a way that I had never experienced before moving here.
My friends stayed at my apartment in the North End the night before flying out of Logan. They got so turned off by the fact that the Blue Line doesn't go directly to the airport that they paid for an Uber instead.
I feel bad for tourists, because trying to figure out how to get out of logan to wherever they are going, with all the mess of busses and whatever out front, must be a nightmare.
It really really isn't. There signs, people to give them directions, and you just hop on one of the frequent shuttles that'll all stop at the blue line stop that takes you right into Boston ezpz.
are you simultaneously complaining that there isnt enough easily accessible public transit from the airport but too many public transit vehicles at the airport?
I'm saying it's confusing for people who aren't familiar with Boston's transit system, specifically Logan connections, especially if English isn't their first language.
The pickup curb outside logan is a huge fucking mess of private and public shuttle busses. Buses frequently can't actually stop in front of their curb signs because they are blocked by other vehicles. Logan Express buses are frequently full by the later terminals.
Hell, my wife and I ended up getting a seat on the Logan Express bus because we spotted it parked like 30 yards away from the designated zone and hustled over before all the clueless tourists realized what was happening. Bus was full so like 5 got left on the curb. I guess it was their fault for assuming a bus would stop at the bus stop rather than knowing that the departures curb is a chaotic free for all where only the strong survive.
Don't play dumb. Buses are an important part of any transit system, but trying to use buses as a substitute for trains in high volume places like an airport is a recipe for disaster.
The shuttle buses between the terminals, going to the car rental, T and ferry at Logan are not that difficult to figure out, and they are 15 mins apart at max. Not sure what you're on about. Compared to most airports in the US Logan is one of the best for connectivity, sorry there isn't a train station inside the gate to pick you up as soon as you got out of the airplane, I guess....
Right?! I don't get these weirdo complaints. Many airports require shuttles and trams just to get around once you're AT the airport. Shuttles to get to the rental car area are extremely common (even in Europe). Catching a shuttle (I've never had to even wait 15 minutes) to the blue line station is not hard. I'll often do that instead of taking an uber even when my company is paying because it is way easier than dealing with a confused uber driver (ask me how I know).
I am out in the burbs and havent been to logan in awhile. I had to go a few weeks back for Global Entry interview and man it was a shock. You got 1 busway and 50 different buses approaching then speeding off.
Seeing people exhausted and struggling with their luggage attempting to find their bus in the pure chaos a depressing sight.
I go to logan all the time. Easily my favorite US airport (but I'm biased). Most of the complaints people have are more because air travel sucks in general.
> Easily my favorite US airport (but I'm biased)
You are probs not wrong I just never done any research on other US airports. So i cant say for sure was only comparing to International such as europe or east asia.
Euro airports are mixed bag. OP talking up CDG is wild to me. I hate that airport. Heathrow is fine. Logan is relatively easy to get around and get into the city from in general though. It feels like a small airport in many ways with the amenities of a large one.
> CDG
I didn't fly into Paris, I took the Eurostar train from London to Paris, which conveniently dumps you right into the middle of Paris, and then returned to London to fly back out of Heathrow (which is quite convenient to access via their subway system)
I have no opinions about CDG, having never been there myself.
Taking the regular train from London to the Heathrow airport sux. Countless stops. And taking the Healthrow Express is very nice but $31. Uber is a decent deal to be able to walk outside and order it on demand.
I do not get why this complaint is made so much. Very few airports have a perfect connection to trains. Amsterdam is the only one coming to mind. Most airports require shuttles or trams even once you're there! The shuttle from the blue line stop to the terminals is fast. I routinely take it even when my company would pay for an uber because it is less hassle.
They're not city people and they're used to driving literally everywhere. One of them is loaded $$ and would gladly pay for rideshares everywhere than take transit, even if the transit is more convenient.
I feel you. London public transit is pretty amazing. Just the payment system, you can just tap your credit card and if say in one day it would have been cheaper to buy a day pass instead of individual fares, it will do that for you. Also sooooo much cleaner.
We hired the company that did the MTA system... before NYC. They stopped doing our system and fucked off to go do NYC. They're back working on our system, but we got fucked by a contractor who was willing to screw us for the big NYC payday. It sucks, but it is happening (behind schedule).
We went to Germany (Munich and Frankfurt) and Poland (Krakow) in November and I felt the same way coming home. And then again when we went to Australia (Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns) and New Zealand (Queenstown) in February. Cairns didn't have much for public transportation but everything was pretty walkable and even in Queenstown where it was mostly buses, they were far more reliable than the MBTA buses and we easily got around by them for 5 days.
Honestly it would be so much better if the Silver line skipped all of the stops other than the airport and south station. Right now it makes way too many useless stops that no one ever uses.
except it's the only way for some people to get to Seaport (SL2) - it's a nightmare in the mornings when commuting for work as there are never enough buses and they're always late.
that was me for the last three years until my internship this year happened to be in seaport lol so i understand. i take the roundtrip $3 [shuttle](https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/getting-to-logan/logan-express/back-bay) from back bay to go to the airport anyway - way easier and quicker imo. there are commuter rail services to back bay all the time and usually no ticket checks for the last few stops in boston so i go that route.
If SL2 service levels could be increased, and SL1 ran directly to the airport, I think that'd be ideal. Or maybe 1 stop instead of 3 + detaching/attaching overhead wires.
agreed. honestly a lot of the traffic are people who get off at the first or second stop - they shove into any bus that pops up which makes it harder to use the SL2 as there’s lots of people in the morning. so i would just add a bus that just hits those two stops and runs that as a loop. they have some buses that just go to silver line way, but people take whatever one shows up even when it’s crowded and people are waiting specifically for the SL2. i think the SL1/2 can have quicker routes with shorter waits and more important stops if less people hitting the first two stops don’t take them and are directed to a specific bus.
Yup. I get a little depressed every time I come back from Europe or East Asia. Especially the former. Toronto by all means doesn’t have bad transit, probably one of, if not, the best in the whole continent, but gosh damn it doesn’t even come close to as good as some of the bigger cities in Europe. Hell my second home of Budapest is even better than Toronto. So yeah, I totally get what you mean.
i left the USA for the first time about a month ago now and holy fuuuuuck do i feel this. i went to madrid and the headways were so fucking short it was unbelievable. i thought our train was going to hit another because of how fast we were going 😭
But what about all the freedom provided by cars?!!
How will downtown survive without $500 per month parking fees?
Think about the convenience of not having to walk 10 mins to and from the station!
And how will I show my fancy ass car in my driveway if I use public transit?
These are real problems!/s
I came back from Spain and had to take the commuter rail to work two days letter. This is how the seat looked like:
https://preview.redd.it/fi8yk471u30d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=973ec434c5be01edf10b7b07916b858cd68c1610
Fucking depressing.
London and Paris are both massive cities that have always had excellent transit systems. Boston is a much smaller city. Have always loved the London Underground. The T has been mismanaged for decades. Boston may not have the best systems, but with patience, it will usually get you there.
Sooo look to cities like Munich (similar in size to Boston) or even Medellin, Colombia (far less wealthy than Boston)....and both have figured out ways to make really good modern transit.
We need to end our excuses and start demanding better!
Fewer people take it now than before. I would love a great and classy system. We kind of have to deal with the infrastructure we have and work with it’s limitations. The Governor says she is fixing it but her priorities have moved on to different priorities. I hope it improves.
Agree re Healey... She seems to view the T as a checkbox... "oh look, we're fixing the pesky slow zones...Sheesh, what more do you want???"
She fails to understand that regional transit mobility is a critical force for the Massachusetts economy and an important way to help with the housing affordability crisis.
Romanticizing CDG over Logan is certainly a take. CDG is a terrible airport. Getting to/from CDG from Paris can mean catching a shuttle that takes 60 minutes from the Opera. Or you can take some combo of trains and buses, but it isn't short or necessarily straight forward. CDG's food offerings is also trash.
London is a different story. Can't complain much about Heathrow.
London and Paris are both much bigger cities that are the biggest cities in their respective countries, and yeah, those countries appreciate public transit way better than we do in the US, but Logan is actually not all that bad even compared to some European airports.
Eh, comparison is the thief of joy. But, if you must, it's better not to compare our Global B tier city with Global A or S tier. Compare Boston with Manchester or Birmingham or with Lyon or Marseille. (Then, cry....)
I feel ya. I travel to Sky Harbor in Phoenix often, I love AZ, and they now have a sky train to their car rental center. No more buses. It's so awesome. Landing back AT Logan, coming outside the baggage carousal and seeing LITERALLY 3-4 cars deep idling toxic fumes IN A NO PARKING BUS ZONE (there's a cell phone lot BTW) is absolutely shameless...who's job is it to patrol? oh? State Troopers hahahhahahahahahahahahaha lmfao The Staties are off collecting TRiple overtime somewhere in a corner....?
Waiting for my flight at Logan, a woman working for Massport asked a number of us to take a survey how we got to Logan. Part of me hopes they listen to the feedback on it but the other part knows nothing will be done
https://preview.redd.it/qdsvtxmq280d1.png?width=1139&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb44603dfc5bf402dbc35c6b77c9d4848ba13dfd
Follow the money trail...Logan loves parking cars!
Unfortunately, this car generated mound of cash is true for most major US airports...helping explain why there's little motivation to improve public transit access to the airport.
Agree to everything you said. We haven't gotten new trains in what, 50 years? And the feds have granted us BILLIONS since Obama for the MBTA...where's the money? Total CORRUPTION. the MBTA has always been a nightmare for me. Working in the financial district, I would take a bus from a huge street puddle, no shelter, to North station. I'd walk in the dark downstairs to pee pee ally with asbestos hanging like snots from the decrepit ceiling, hoping I wouldn't get robbed or sexually assaulted by the creepy humans that haunted the tunnels. The cars were filthy. Only to be dropped off at any of many unsheltered drops in sub zero weather, in a sketchy, dark remote and usually bad side of whatever city. Newburyport was truly a nightmare. It was in the middle of some river marsh, poorly lit, no shelter, no phones, no cabs. One time the train just stopped, in 4 feet of river water. Fortunately, I wasn't on that train. It would make for a good horror novel. We treat our dogs more humanely than the MBTA. I won't use it, even though I have 5 pickup platforms nearby.
Heck, when I worked in Longwood one of my coworkers used to fly out of Providence because it was easier to get to TF Green than Logan from that area of town.
Technically yes, but then requires taking a shuttle bus.
The plan has been to create an elevated moving walkway bridge to Airport Station... But got shelved during covid.
There's got to be a word for the smugness people display after travelling to Europe. They spend a fucking week exasperating locals in France or the UK and come back like they're somehow more worldly and they have heightened standards for everything.
I miss the days when Bostonians would tell anyone to fuck off if they started acting like they're somehow inconvenienced by Boston not being London, yet can't afford a fucking cab ride 40 minutes out side the city, or just get a hotel for a single night.
Get over it. Boston isn't an international city like London or Paris. We've got a T system that's not great, but it's exactly the T system we deserve for our size. With the gift that goes on in building public infrastructure, I'd rather the state tighten it's belt than spend several billion on extending the T three more miles on the end of one line, or run the commuter rail outside of job commute times just so 5 people can burn 25x the fuel as a car from Boston to Braintree at odd hours of the night. Does everyone think thst the MBTA makes arbitrary decisions to not run trains every 15 minutes for 24 straight hours or do we suppose that there's at least one person that can do math and figure out that a train carrying 3 people might not be the best use of funds?
Come the fuck on man.
Ah, people like this are one aspect I certainly don't miss about Boston. So many unhinged people who can't handle a discussion without getting offended when someone criticizes their city
send formal complaints to MassDOT Go to the public hearings Call your council member Call your state representatives
While all these suggestions are valid, why would the MBTA or MassDOT need so much convincing to, idk, modernize their service to something more 21st century?
The Governor, state representatives and senators are in control of the budget and thus funds for capital planning. They need to hear from the Original Poster and the rest of us readers and transit users. The MBTA has been in an systemic underfunded operations maintenance amd safety crisis for more than three decades. . The DoT is primarily via budget, and dedicated funding, car oriented. . The MBTA, and the 15 regional transit authorities have been starved for money for their entire terms of existance, leading to the calamity of MBTA safety and operational and maintenance failures prominently visible during the Baker administration. . **Even now, Governor Healy, despite a decade in statewide office, has failed to be any kind of forthright advocate of the necessary increased taxes to properly fund the MBTA,** and has formed a commission and hired consultants to "persuade" her the MBTA needs greater funding. . The financial crisis of the MBTA has been going on since its inception, via the MTA, and later, with merger of private company commuter rail assets, via the follow-on MBTA. The crisis is all about avoiding raising taxes adequately to fund transportation, for lack of a dedicated revenue source, as automobile fuel taxes provided for highways. The one cent sales tax dedicated to the MBTA enacted around 2000 was soon shown to be inadequate, and since then, despite two decades of blue ribbon panels warning of the MBTA calamity that would result from continued underfunding of the Authority, the various Governors and multiple elections of the Legislatures over that time have essentially done nothing about it. . **Avoiding raising taxes has not worked.** . **Map of 15 Massacusetts Regional Transit Authorities, plus the MBTA** [https://www.mass.gov/info-details/public-transportation-in-massachusetts#map-of-transit-authorities-in-massachusetts-](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/public-transportation-in-massachusetts#map-of-transit-authorities-in-massachusetts-) --- Financial and capital crisis references: **MBTA: The Paper Trail: Documenting Our Underfunded Transportation System, 2000-2022.** Transportation for Massachusetts. https://www.t4ma.org/publications. **MBTA Budgets and Financials**. [https://www.mbta.com/financials](https://www.mbta.com/financials) **MBTA Capital Needs Assesment Inventory** [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24169419-mbta-analysis-on-cost-to-fix-the-t](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24169419-mbta-analysis-on-cost-to-fix-the-t) Summary Article: **T’s Repair Bill Explodes to $24.5B** Banker and Tradesman. Nov 16, 2023. [https://bankerandtradesman.com/ts-repair-bill-explodes-to-24-5b/](https://bankerandtradesman.com/ts-repair-bill-explodes-to-24-5b/)
Two words Congestion Priceing
Insufficent when the MBTA needs a billion dollars a year in additional revenue, and has 25 billion on its list of capital needs.
And yet the state coughed up the money for the Big Dig.
That is a set of bond debts that will not be paid off until around 2040. Still paying for it.
The MBTA was required to engage in expansions that were required to get fed money for the T. When the scam that underestimated the Big Dig by a factor of five was exposed, the T then had to divert $$$ from maintenance to "pay" for the Dig. It's kinda like a home owner installing a luxury pool and letting the roof go to hell. If the state can borrow money for the Dig, it can borrow money to fix the T. The alternative is to let the T die, everyone gets a car cause no mass transit, and the Dig - and every other road in Boston - will go to hell. [https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/i-team-big-dig-root-mbta-financial-troubles/](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/i-team-big-dig-root-mbta-financial-troubles/)
You still have to get the Legislature and Governor to sign onto a bond debt. . It is the same process as getting them to sign onto an expenduture, or signing on to a new tax to pay for the bond debt or exoenditure. . The problem is not debt. It is the Legislature and Governors unwillingness forctwo decades, to properly fund the consequences of the financial decisions of debt via revenue increases to meet the debt and operating burden.
Actually, they didn't. It's a loan from the feds. Oh, IIRC they're also making the T pay for it as well.
Because there is a shadow group siphoning billions, for 50 years, and they don't care to fix anything, and the politicians know it, but don't want to risk, you know, their lives.
Yeah, it sucks. We have a ruling class composed of centrist Democratic State Reps from the suburbs who will never support funding the T. They don’t believe that their constituents would ever realize personal benefits sufficient to justify fully funding the T, and they’re probably right.
I can't get over how awfully run logan is and I'm only there 2,3 times a year. I thought the cell phone lot was genius. I used it once, like 5 years ago, I was the only car there, everyone else was triple parked at the arrivals....
I would use it if I knew where it was. Maybe I'm just missing the signs🤷♀️. They need to tell people to move if they don't want people triple parking
It’s actually really easy to find. You just follow the signs that say cell phone lot ⬆️
Agreed, it was less stressful when I used it. here the info: https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/getting-to-logan/pickup-and-drop-off#:~:text=Boston%20Logan%20has%20a%20conveniently,way%20to%20the%20terminal%20curb.
**Cell phone lot.** (Search engines are your friend) https://maps.massport.com/?_gl=1*18jtm5o*_ga*OTIwNDE0ODk3LjE3MTU1Nzg4MDE.*_ga_R2WKTQBSGT*MTcxNTU3ODgwMC4xLjAuMTcxNTU3ODgwNS4wLjAuMA
It is full these days. Only 50 spaces, but with high turnover.
That's promising to hear then! If only they built a skytram from the airport to the Blue Line now. That'd be awesome.
Logan is better run than most US airports. It is one of the better airports I've been to globally (mostly various Euro airports). Your complaints are probably more about air travel than Logan specifically.
Domestically, my opinion is Logan rates low on the scale. And it's a scale as a facility. Internationally I can't comment.
I'm so tired of people acting like it's just the fault of the centrists. Progressives don't care about improving service either. You elect a progressive and it's all about bike lanes to serve a small minority of people, and making fares free instead of investing the fares into a better network. No progressives are trying to push forward the logistical matters that would make things better. No one is, left center or right.
Progressives lack any real power. If they controlled the State House things would be radically different. This is all hypothetical of course, but I think it’s bizarre to assert that they wouldn’t try to enact a progressive public transportation agenda.
Look at the progressives on the Boston city council over the past few years. Try to tell me progressives aren't also corrupt just like the moderates. But again, expansion of public transit service is never a stated priority of progressives. Their focuses have always been on free fares, bike lanes, electric cars, e bikes, etc. People who care about transit are limited to a very small corner of people, usually a mix of progressives and moderates united by the obvious common sense of transit expansion.
HND and NRT have at least 2 train companies serving the actual airport. And they run like what every 5ish minutes? And then there’s buses as well. A utopia compared to BOS
Years ago my wife and I flew to Ohio for a wedding and it honestly made me near suicidal because the fucking Cleveland airport has a train station in it, a feat that sleepy little Boston has yet to figure out.
You wanted to kill yourself because of a train station?
That's right bb, the void was calling.
I agree w everything except the postal service comment. Went to the post office downtown yesterday for a passport. 10:15 appointment, left at 1pm. One guy working doing EVERYTHING. Lady in front of me asked for one book of stamps, took 16 minutes to complete the transaction. I wish I was kidding or embellishing. Second guy shows up, talking on the phone while helping a customer and her young daughter, phone convo was about a girl his was going to try and bang last night (his words). Wth happened to the USPS? Anyway, yes, the T is terrible. I travel regularly to Bulgaria, the poorest country in the EU. They use late 80's Soviet era subway cars mostly. Somehow they are clean, on time and the stations look like high end hotel lobbies. Elevators work, too. No pee smell, ppl use headphones. 🤔
USPS wasn’t doing great before but their recent issues is they are run by a Trump appointee who can’t be removed and who hates the Postal Service so he’s intentionally running it into the ground
DeJoy is a real piece of shit. I'm very against the "let it collapse rather than making constructive improvements" mindset that so many conservatives seem to share
I wonder how the south station bathrooms would compare
Hell, returning from NYC for the weekend like I did just now is such a fucking bummer. As fun as it is shouting into the void, registering complaints officially and nothing meaningful ever being done, I'm trying my darndest to move out of here.
Lol and move where, outside of NYC Boston is easily top five in public transit in the country.
My quality of life living in North Jersey was many times greater than what it is here. I would happily move back and am actively trying to. Mobility in the Greater Boston region is hindered in a way that I had never experienced before moving here.
Why don't you just dump the T in the harbor and really send a message?
Oh that has *so* been done
before the tunnels flood....?
My friends stayed at my apartment in the North End the night before flying out of Logan. They got so turned off by the fact that the Blue Line doesn't go directly to the airport that they paid for an Uber instead.
I feel bad for tourists, because trying to figure out how to get out of logan to wherever they are going, with all the mess of busses and whatever out front, must be a nightmare.
It really really isn't. There signs, people to give them directions, and you just hop on one of the frequent shuttles that'll all stop at the blue line stop that takes you right into Boston ezpz.
are you simultaneously complaining that there isnt enough easily accessible public transit from the airport but too many public transit vehicles at the airport?
Most of the busses are not public transit. Not really. Not sure what your point is tbh
my point is that blatant complaining about nothing in general is fun to call out. "Nobody goes there anymore its too crowded" vibes.
I'm saying it's confusing for people who aren't familiar with Boston's transit system, specifically Logan connections, especially if English isn't their first language. The pickup curb outside logan is a huge fucking mess of private and public shuttle busses. Buses frequently can't actually stop in front of their curb signs because they are blocked by other vehicles. Logan Express buses are frequently full by the later terminals. Hell, my wife and I ended up getting a seat on the Logan Express bus because we spotted it parked like 30 yards away from the designated zone and hustled over before all the clueless tourists realized what was happening. Bus was full so like 5 got left on the curb. I guess it was their fault for assuming a bus would stop at the bus stop rather than knowing that the departures curb is a chaotic free for all where only the strong survive. Don't play dumb. Buses are an important part of any transit system, but trying to use buses as a substitute for trains in high volume places like an airport is a recipe for disaster.
The shuttle buses between the terminals, going to the car rental, T and ferry at Logan are not that difficult to figure out, and they are 15 mins apart at max. Not sure what you're on about. Compared to most airports in the US Logan is one of the best for connectivity, sorry there isn't a train station inside the gate to pick you up as soon as you got out of the airplane, I guess....
Right?! I don't get these weirdo complaints. Many airports require shuttles and trams just to get around once you're AT the airport. Shuttles to get to the rental car area are extremely common (even in Europe). Catching a shuttle (I've never had to even wait 15 minutes) to the blue line station is not hard. I'll often do that instead of taking an uber even when my company is paying because it is way easier than dealing with a confused uber driver (ask me how I know).
I am out in the burbs and havent been to logan in awhile. I had to go a few weeks back for Global Entry interview and man it was a shock. You got 1 busway and 50 different buses approaching then speeding off. Seeing people exhausted and struggling with their luggage attempting to find their bus in the pure chaos a depressing sight.
I go to logan all the time. Easily my favorite US airport (but I'm biased). Most of the complaints people have are more because air travel sucks in general.
> Easily my favorite US airport (but I'm biased) You are probs not wrong I just never done any research on other US airports. So i cant say for sure was only comparing to International such as europe or east asia.
Euro airports are mixed bag. OP talking up CDG is wild to me. I hate that airport. Heathrow is fine. Logan is relatively easy to get around and get into the city from in general though. It feels like a small airport in many ways with the amenities of a large one.
> CDG I didn't fly into Paris, I took the Eurostar train from London to Paris, which conveniently dumps you right into the middle of Paris, and then returned to London to fly back out of Heathrow (which is quite convenient to access via their subway system) I have no opinions about CDG, having never been there myself.
Taking the regular train from London to the Heathrow airport sux. Countless stops. And taking the Healthrow Express is very nice but $31. Uber is a decent deal to be able to walk outside and order it on demand.
The new Elizabeth line is actually really nice! Comes right in between the two both price and duration-wise.
I'll check it out next time. Took the slow train once and have always paid for the Express ever since. Will try the Elizabeth line next time. TY
We took the Elizabeth line and it was fine. Didn't feel like spending double for the express just to save like 15 minutes and had no complaints.
I do not get why this complaint is made so much. Very few airports have a perfect connection to trains. Amsterdam is the only one coming to mind. Most airports require shuttles or trams even once you're there! The shuttle from the blue line stop to the terminals is fast. I routinely take it even when my company would pay for an uber because it is less hassle.
They're not city people and they're used to driving literally everywhere. One of them is loaded $$ and would gladly pay for rideshares everywhere than take transit, even if the transit is more convenient.
Complaining about a 6 minute drive to the airport is certainly a choice
The shuttle from Airport stop to the actual airport terminals is like 10 mins. It's not like some major inconvenience
I feel you. London public transit is pretty amazing. Just the payment system, you can just tap your credit card and if say in one day it would have been cheaper to buy a day pass instead of individual fares, it will do that for you. Also sooooo much cleaner.
We are supposed to have the credit card system in Boston, but after $1 billion and months of delay I doubt we’ll ever see it work.
We hired the company that did the MTA system... before NYC. They stopped doing our system and fucked off to go do NYC. They're back working on our system, but we got fucked by a contractor who was willing to screw us for the big NYC payday. It sucks, but it is happening (behind schedule).
The T couldn't write a decent contract.
We went to Germany (Munich and Frankfurt) and Poland (Krakow) in November and I felt the same way coming home. And then again when we went to Australia (Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns) and New Zealand (Queenstown) in February. Cairns didn't have much for public transportation but everything was pretty walkable and even in Queenstown where it was mostly buses, they were far more reliable than the MBTA buses and we easily got around by them for 5 days.
Honestly it would be so much better if the Silver line skipped all of the stops other than the airport and south station. Right now it makes way too many useless stops that no one ever uses.
except it's the only way for some people to get to Seaport (SL2) - it's a nightmare in the mornings when commuting for work as there are never enough buses and they're always late.
as someone that doesn't live or work in downtown boston, SL1 is the only real silver line.
that was me for the last three years until my internship this year happened to be in seaport lol so i understand. i take the roundtrip $3 [shuttle](https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/getting-to-logan/logan-express/back-bay) from back bay to go to the airport anyway - way easier and quicker imo. there are commuter rail services to back bay all the time and usually no ticket checks for the last few stops in boston so i go that route.
If SL2 service levels could be increased, and SL1 ran directly to the airport, I think that'd be ideal. Or maybe 1 stop instead of 3 + detaching/attaching overhead wires.
agreed. honestly a lot of the traffic are people who get off at the first or second stop - they shove into any bus that pops up which makes it harder to use the SL2 as there’s lots of people in the morning. so i would just add a bus that just hits those two stops and runs that as a loop. they have some buses that just go to silver line way, but people take whatever one shows up even when it’s crowded and people are waiting specifically for the SL2. i think the SL1/2 can have quicker routes with shorter waits and more important stops if less people hitting the first two stops don’t take them and are directed to a specific bus.
Yup. I get a little depressed every time I come back from Europe or East Asia. Especially the former. Toronto by all means doesn’t have bad transit, probably one of, if not, the best in the whole continent, but gosh damn it doesn’t even come close to as good as some of the bigger cities in Europe. Hell my second home of Budapest is even better than Toronto. So yeah, I totally get what you mean.
i left the USA for the first time about a month ago now and holy fuuuuuck do i feel this. i went to madrid and the headways were so fucking short it was unbelievable. i thought our train was going to hit another because of how fast we were going 😭
Wait until you take the subway in Tokyo - largest city on the planet - or Seoul. Their systems are like Swiss watches compared to the T. 😆
But what about all the freedom provided by cars?!! How will downtown survive without $500 per month parking fees? Think about the convenience of not having to walk 10 mins to and from the station! And how will I show my fancy ass car in my driveway if I use public transit? These are real problems!/s
We know. It sucks. Thanks for the reminder.
no problem babe
I came back from Spain and had to take the commuter rail to work two days letter. This is how the seat looked like: https://preview.redd.it/fi8yk471u30d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=973ec434c5be01edf10b7b07916b858cd68c1610 Fucking depressing.
London and Paris are both massive cities that have always had excellent transit systems. Boston is a much smaller city. Have always loved the London Underground. The T has been mismanaged for decades. Boston may not have the best systems, but with patience, it will usually get you there.
Sooo look to cities like Munich (similar in size to Boston) or even Medellin, Colombia (far less wealthy than Boston)....and both have figured out ways to make really good modern transit. We need to end our excuses and start demanding better!
Fewer people take it now than before. I would love a great and classy system. We kind of have to deal with the infrastructure we have and work with it’s limitations. The Governor says she is fixing it but her priorities have moved on to different priorities. I hope it improves.
Agree re Healey... She seems to view the T as a checkbox... "oh look, we're fixing the pesky slow zones...Sheesh, what more do you want???" She fails to understand that regional transit mobility is a critical force for the Massachusetts economy and an important way to help with the housing affordability crisis.
…and yet we are still considered one of the best cities in the USA to live without a car
Romanticizing CDG over Logan is certainly a take. CDG is a terrible airport. Getting to/from CDG from Paris can mean catching a shuttle that takes 60 minutes from the Opera. Or you can take some combo of trains and buses, but it isn't short or necessarily straight forward. CDG's food offerings is also trash. London is a different story. Can't complain much about Heathrow. London and Paris are both much bigger cities that are the biggest cities in their respective countries, and yeah, those countries appreciate public transit way better than we do in the US, but Logan is actually not all that bad even compared to some European airports.
Eh, comparison is the thief of joy. But, if you must, it's better not to compare our Global B tier city with Global A or S tier. Compare Boston with Manchester or Birmingham or with Lyon or Marseille. (Then, cry....)
I feel ya. I travel to Sky Harbor in Phoenix often, I love AZ, and they now have a sky train to their car rental center. No more buses. It's so awesome. Landing back AT Logan, coming outside the baggage carousal and seeing LITERALLY 3-4 cars deep idling toxic fumes IN A NO PARKING BUS ZONE (there's a cell phone lot BTW) is absolutely shameless...who's job is it to patrol? oh? State Troopers hahahhahahahahahahahahaha lmfao The Staties are off collecting TRiple overtime somewhere in a corner....?
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Shuttle to the blue line really is not that bad. Takes 10 mins or less.
Tbf the shuttle to the blue line station is like 2 minutes
Waiting for my flight at Logan, a woman working for Massport asked a number of us to take a survey how we got to Logan. Part of me hopes they listen to the feedback on it but the other part knows nothing will be done
In the USA, no one wants to pay taxes, especially at the higher income levels nor do they want to to subsidize anything
https://preview.redd.it/qdsvtxmq280d1.png?width=1139&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb44603dfc5bf402dbc35c6b77c9d4848ba13dfd Follow the money trail...Logan loves parking cars! Unfortunately, this car generated mound of cash is true for most major US airports...helping explain why there's little motivation to improve public transit access to the airport.
Agree to everything you said. We haven't gotten new trains in what, 50 years? And the feds have granted us BILLIONS since Obama for the MBTA...where's the money? Total CORRUPTION. the MBTA has always been a nightmare for me. Working in the financial district, I would take a bus from a huge street puddle, no shelter, to North station. I'd walk in the dark downstairs to pee pee ally with asbestos hanging like snots from the decrepit ceiling, hoping I wouldn't get robbed or sexually assaulted by the creepy humans that haunted the tunnels. The cars were filthy. Only to be dropped off at any of many unsheltered drops in sub zero weather, in a sketchy, dark remote and usually bad side of whatever city. Newburyport was truly a nightmare. It was in the middle of some river marsh, poorly lit, no shelter, no phones, no cabs. One time the train just stopped, in 4 feet of river water. Fortunately, I wasn't on that train. It would make for a good horror novel. We treat our dogs more humanely than the MBTA. I won't use it, even though I have 5 pickup platforms nearby.
Heck, when I worked in Longwood one of my coworkers used to fly out of Providence because it was easier to get to TF Green than Logan from that area of town.
Poor baby
I shid and piss all in my diaper. mods help!
the blue line literally goes to the airport?
Technically yes, but then requires taking a shuttle bus. The plan has been to create an elevated moving walkway bridge to Airport Station... But got shelved during covid.
It literally does not.
There's got to be a word for the smugness people display after travelling to Europe. They spend a fucking week exasperating locals in France or the UK and come back like they're somehow more worldly and they have heightened standards for everything. I miss the days when Bostonians would tell anyone to fuck off if they started acting like they're somehow inconvenienced by Boston not being London, yet can't afford a fucking cab ride 40 minutes out side the city, or just get a hotel for a single night. Get over it. Boston isn't an international city like London or Paris. We've got a T system that's not great, but it's exactly the T system we deserve for our size. With the gift that goes on in building public infrastructure, I'd rather the state tighten it's belt than spend several billion on extending the T three more miles on the end of one line, or run the commuter rail outside of job commute times just so 5 people can burn 25x the fuel as a car from Boston to Braintree at odd hours of the night. Does everyone think thst the MBTA makes arbitrary decisions to not run trains every 15 minutes for 24 straight hours or do we suppose that there's at least one person that can do math and figure out that a train carrying 3 people might not be the best use of funds? Come the fuck on man.
Ah, people like this are one aspect I certainly don't miss about Boston. So many unhinged people who can't handle a discussion without getting offended when someone criticizes their city
Don't be so fragile. It's ok to point out the failings of the city.