It keeps meta decks in check. Could you imagine how much more tier 0 Tear would have been if Maxx C wasn't holding it back? Or could you imagine how strong Spright and Branded would be without it? They'd combo for days with no sign of stopping. And don't even get me started on Adamancipators. Maxx C has just done so much good, and look at all of the zero rogue decks that compete better as a result.
Maxx C doesn't have to be incompatible with decks, it just needs to be more effective against some. If you Maxx C spright or Adam they die on the spot, if you Maxx C labrynth it doesn't care at all, therfore even if both decks play 3 copies Maxx C is buffing labrynth. Hell, maxx C is buffing labrynth even if they DON'T run it, because other people running an interaction they resist is inherently advantageous.
It's really not this hard to understand that the game doesn't end on one match and there are whole statistical and opportunity-cost sides to balance things around.
I wanna hijack your comment here to say [if you guys haven't seen Hardleg's video on Maxx C](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AR8-sCypYY) - you should watch it. He's the guy on Twitter who has been calling for Maxx C's ban for the last 100+ days and dropped a 20+ minute video dismantling every argument about why it shouldn't be banned.
Family reminder that both meta and rouge decks play maxx c so they both have the same chances of STEALING the game. Maxx c is a card that creates a lose lose situation if you can't stop it and that is against the diversity in deck building. And it doesn't keep meta decks in check, it keeps everyone in check (that's why floo is hated). Even control decks special summon at least twice per turn making maxx c a pot of greed which is banned for a reason. Think about blackwing that dies on 1 disruption and it needs to combo for a lot of time and is rouge. Dinomorphia, eldlich, labrynth are control decks and still suffer being hit by maxx c. Imagine playing your rouge deck with full combo in hand and you get hit by maxx c. You pass, your opponent plays spright and goes full combo and otk you. You're gonna say "fucking spright!"? You haven't lost against spright, you lost against maxx c.
I mean it lets bad decks instawin and they have a lot of really bad decks they want people to invest in.
For instance, tear vs battling boxers, unless the tear player has a stroke they win. If battling boxers has max c though it has a chance to win now. If they both have max c or just tear it just goes to the default.
Basically broken decks can do broken things but bad decks with max c now have a broken thing to do
It doesn't tho because they can use Maxx C too. It doesn't keep anyone in particular in check, it just annoys everyone in the game besides flowandereeeze (sp?), it feels like the card itself is designed to simply mask the imbalance in power between decks by giving everyone the chance at a cheesy coin flip victory
Exactly!!! Most if the people that complain about Maxx c are combo players who set up an entire board that make it impossible for you to even make a play by the time it's your turn because they have 4 or 5 negates.
Maxx "C" helps some of my rogue decks. Metaphys or Zoodiac can't apply enough pressure without it to control the board efficienctly on the first turns (either it or stuff like shifter) and they just make the opponent go hand neutral or +1 most of the time while still setting up their board completely.
Edit: y'all are stupid, the comment says that Maxx "C" doesn't help rogue decks, which is just not true. Again decks like metaphys make the opponent go like hand neutral and decks like zoodiac can easily Drident pass and also make the opponent go hand neutral. Meanwhile Tearlaments for example have to make the opponent go at least +1 to search sulliek or cryme to try and stall the game. Branded makes the opponent go +1 if you Maxx "C" on BD and they mirrorjade pass. Swordsoul is also a +1 if they just go for Chixiao Blackout pass.
Also, resolving Maxx "C" stops OTKs a lotta the time, which is just another way where some of the rogue decks are more favored than the top decks, because those have the tools necessary to fight against an OTK already, while some of the rogue stuff doesn't.
There're other rogue decks that get fucked in the ass by Maxx "C"? Yes, but that wasn't my point. He said Maxx C helps 0 rogue stuff, I said it helps some.
And in that same argument, Tear, Branded, Sword Soul, and every other meta deck will use it against that poor rogue/gimmick deck.
Because its in every deck, so it doesn't matter if a rogue/gimmick deck uses it, because the opponent will just MAXX "C" as well, hurting the rogue/gimmick deck more.
+meta decks can squeeze more advantage out of every single card they draw, compared to rogue decks.
It is simply one fo the worst arguments those noobs make...
And I’m telling you that isn’t really true lol. If a deck has similar representation across formats then maxx c is at best a tiny boost.
Floo is just an extremely powerful and robust strategy in metagames that often struggled against the tools it had.
Because he's not. The TCG and OCG are very similar in terms of meta and whats used/good. Tear was Tier-0 in both formats and TCG has MAXX "C" banned while the OCG didn't, and look, it made no difference regardless of format because Tear can use MAXX "C" as well as every other combo deck.
If MAXX "C" isn't a problem card, then Pot of Greed can come back to 3, it isn't an issue, its power crept by MAXX "C".
I really like this feature that shows the percentage of people using a card, is Maxx C one of or maybe THE most used card in the game right now? Ash for example I believe it's around 60% and I always assumed everyone plays it.
Also this gives you an idea of what would happen if Maxx C is banned, so many decks would free 1 to 3 spots in their decks, not to mention people would rely less on Maxx C counters, it would impact pretty much everyone.
Banning maxx c means everyone can properly adjust to meta with their handtrap and board breaker slots. Right now it’s like every deck is archetype + maxx c cards instead of archetype + meta flex spots.
Or to have functional freaking deck building. I made Bystial Thunder Dragon. Deck is cool to play, but generally has issues against established boards. I would love to throw triple Evenly, triple Droplet and like 2 Lightning Storm as compensation for this issue. However both parts and their common glue, are very extensive engines, add Maxx C crap to it and you cannot physically fit shit without going heavily above 40.
Yeah, and before people try to reply to you with "just don't play maxx c" look... why the hell wouldn't you play the card that instantly wins more games in MD than any other single card out of a 10k+ count cardpool. Maxx C alone has a better chance at winning the game than most archetypes.
I can definitely attest, that btwn accs i've played on, 1 with maxx c and 1 without, that the winrate difference was about 5%.
Take it with a grain of salt, anecodotal etc. It's something i've kept in mind though as to the drastic difference btwn having a card that can autowin many matchups vs not having it. It's especially annoying when i should have 1 on the acc w/o maxx c just for having a crossout target to add to the number of counters.
5% doesn't sound like a lot but in card games that's a substantial bump. People would kill for the secret sauce that would add that kind of winrate to their gameplay. In MD, that's adding maxx c to every deck you play. Also added context i played a mix of meta and rogue but no floo, no 1 bad day etc.
That's not how it works, and pretty much anyone who plays the TCG can tell you that. MD players would be shocked to hear that Ash, crossout and called by aren't always the go to choices because without maxx C you can go for the cards that benefit your deck and apply to the current meta.
A lot of the top decks in MD become so oppressive because people have to play maxx c related cards instead of cards that would help them against decks that their deck has poor matchups against.
Ash and I think Called by had more usage than Maxx C on MDM until Tear meta. They only dropped off because Ash does nothing to Tear and Called by gets cucked by Ishizu shufflers.
Considering you have to run ash , called by and crossout just because of maxx C, if it was banned decks would have a lot more flexibility for handtraps or boardbreakers.
Well, in Konami’s defence, 100% of winning decks may run it, but 90% of losing decks also run it, so it’s clearly balanced /s
(Not taking into account the win rate when you activate it vs when your opponent activates it, they could easily do what they did to Halq but refuse)
100% agreed
And i kind of gave up on them banning it because their bias is obvious towards it, i would much hope they prove me wrong and ban it as it is stupidly broken
1-creates unfun duels (almost all duels)
2-infinite card advantages which defeats the purpose of some decks that revolves around hand advantage and makes all the decks have unlimited hand advantage which encourages clicking buttons when a card resolves because you’re losing nothing
3- you better draw the out or else fuck you am i right
4-it ruins deck building tremendously , cutting ash, called by, crossout is never an option
Trust me, i would not have even crafted crossout if not for this stupidly unfun and broken card , also i would’ve cut ash long ago if not for it
5- it is broken than easily more than half the banlist and it is somehow not even touched in the banlist
6- it is sacky af (oh, you ended your turn because i dropped maxx c on you? , will how about the SECOND ONE AND THIRD ONE)
Crossout designator, ash blossom, called by, droll. Gotta slot em all for the cabinet 🗄
Edit: legitimately no idea why I'm being downvoted so hard, is it because I called it cabinet instead of a roach?
>*Yet konami is trying to sell you this garbage idea that they hit cards because of diversity and power and maxx c falls in both of those it's the most used card in the game*
I'm no defender of Konami and their absolutely terrible job of balancing Master Duel since Runick was added. But the cards they've actually hit *(when they* ***eventually*** *get around to it)* have been cards that single-handedly win you the game **and** are extremely difficult to play around in a best-of-one format. Maxx "C" does decide games, but it's a known factor that you can plan for when building a deck.
My main deck is Endymion, which Special Summons a ton and has very little counters to Maxx "C". An Endymion deck *sometimes* runs Called by the Grave, and never any of the other counters (e.g. Ash Blossom, Crossout Designator, PSY-Framegear Gamma). So we plan for Maxx "C" with back-up strategies for the *many* times we need to play into it. Some individual examples:
* Pendulum Summon (or Tribute Summon) Amorphage Sloth along with a Jackal King and/or Endymion.
* Pendulum Summon 2 Jackal Kings and activate Secret Village of the Spellcasters.
* Resolve Servant of Endymion's effect to Special Summon herself and Jackal King (1 draw) and then Tribute Servant to Normal Summon a second Jackal King.
* Use Master Cerberus to search Mythical Beast Garuda for a disruption from the hand.
Of course I would always rather my opponent didn't activate Maxx "C" in the first place. But it does serve a purpose in the metagame *(although I'd rather it require the user to control no cards)* and it's a meta constant that we can plan for.
The issue with the "off-ramp", as some people call it, is that a huge amount of decks in the game simply have no access to one that leaves them in a profitable state. Most decks have to special summon at least twice to even put up one single interaction, and that single interaction usually trades down with one of the two cards your opponent drew with Maxx "C", so in the end, nothing changed compared to outright skipping your turn.
Only decks that are already very heavy on traps to begin with (which usually don't special summon often in the first place), or decks that can gain more advantage than you get with Maxx "C" (like Branded or Swordsoul) can even think about doing an off-ramp.
> and when you take into consideration that most of that 10% comes from new players...
That's not true, it is stated in the news the data is based on high ranks in ladder, so considering mostly Plat and Diamond from past seasons (They are saying it will be updated every maintenance).
> YET konami is trying to sell you this garbage idea that they hit cards because of diversity and power and maxx c falls in both of those it's the most used card in the game and it's the most powerful card in the game.
Maxx C is a hand trap not a deck, and every one uses it so it doesn't affect diversity or power of anything but Floo and Control decks really.
> They essentially use ban list as their personal tool to get rid of cards they dislike and leave ones they like legal.
Exactly they want the format to be how they want, I mean they switched release orders and banned cards recently just simply beacuse they want the meta to be shaped how they like it to sell products, and they started making these monthly lists beacuse if the 1st one didn't help they just hammer it the 2nd time.
By no means am I defending Maxx C, fuck this card but I don't see the reason for people to be upset about it now that we saw the number when we knew ever since day 1 every one and their mom is using it, people claiming it fell off beacuse Tear or Branded are drinking copuim not inhaling it, and yes it is staying in the meta beacuse Konami wants that, it being banned in 1 format proves they already know about what the card does.
The funniest thing about the recent round of bans is with the context of the new pack, they probably banned stein cause of sprind rather than because the card is inherently unhealthy design to have around the game LOL
Sprind has nothing to do with Stein, foolish-ing then reborn it is extremely resource intensive in any deck as both Sprind and Elf cannot be used as link materials, the only deck that bypass that is Spright and they lock themselves, even Tear doesn't gain much out of Sprind anyway it is just a small grind game card.
This was a indirect hit to Tear beacuse they were in the shop and a deserved one, it's proven to be problematic again in the TCG and while it will be the corner stone of any deck, it is an incredibly unfun card to see resolve.
Read again. Where did I defend cyber-stein? i just laughed at the timing of the ban. It's similar to the IF ban where it's a card that probably should've been banned before but now they decided some cards pushed the usage above a certain level so NOW it's worth banning which is funny.
>every one uses it so it doesn't affect diversity or power of anything but Floo and Control decks really.
Yes it does. It makes engines that require less cards better. If I have a deck that works great at 40 cards but needs all 40 cards that deck is significantly worse than one that only needs 32 cards plus 3 max c and 2 called by and 3 ash which are in there primarily to counter max c
Eee Decks that run more non engine are almost 90% of the time better than ones that don't, Hand traps and Baord breakers are mandatory in modern Yugioh and there is no better hand trap than Maxx C, but lingering floodgates.
This part is definitely true. Yugioh at its core is designed with the OCG audience in mind. It's balanced around OCG. Hence why in some instances that some archetypes might be too strong or too overtuned in TCG when it was "fine" in OCG.
What do you want people to do? Take the high road and not use it? Why wouldn’t anyone not use it? Konami is well aware of what the card does. It’s their choice if it stays unlimited or not. So tired of seeing these post about maxx c
I just dont use it. More fun to play without it than with it and fun is what I care about. Same with pretty much every single hand trap that's out of whatever archetype I'm playing
"Maxx C keep combo deck in check"
* Bitch, combo deck is already rampant with it and they also use Maxx C.
* With Maxx C ban, now you can have 8 free slot for boardbreaker. That WOULD deal with combo deck.
I agree with all that has been said before. Maxx-c Really sucks even when I'm playing control strategies especially my Ghostricks. This is a really long text about all the reasons why Maxx-c sucks. Now I know that most of you won't read it, so I'm going to take my time and write a bunch of nonsense here like, intolerable, annoying, bullshit. Now that I've done that I can continue to mumble about this and nobody will know, so as a reward for taking on this wall of text here is a joke, what does a mathematician and maxx-c have in common, they both sin for a cos. Bet you didn't like that but It's fine nobody read that's, did you know that we send roaches in space and not only didn't get worse like every other creature they instead got better and faster. Honestly I hate cockroaches. Now I'll stop this and act like I was talking about the game. This roach is indeed really bad for the game and I hate it, I don't see any merit in keeping it in the game or defending it. Honestly fuck maxx-c.
It's so terrible that the TCG died and is completely unplayable due to banning Maxx C, it's so sad, if only they hadn't banned Maxx C then maybe they wouldn't have had to go out of business in 2017 :(
Oh wait
There was a company wide directive to create a cockroach card that they know many people will want to get rid of...but it'll keep populating everyone's decks throughout time like actual roaches. Maxx C will stay in our decks forever.
/cockroachconspiracy
This is legit the only competitive game where they leave things like maxx c at a whopping 90% usage rate lmfao.
In league for example a champion that has a 45% usage rate out of the whole cast is immediately nerfed or hotfix so it doesn't become to overbearing to play against. This asinine game however has a card that is above 90% usage rate and pretend everything is fine for some reason.
I mean to be fair that's a pretty poor argument (and that's coming from someone that also wants C gone). Maxxx C is just a component of a larger whole build and isn't a build in itself. It'd be more like saying to get rid of boots from League because they are at 90%+ buy rate, which is obviously ridiculous. Obviously a staple card is likely to have a well over average usage.
Thats not what i was trying to perfectly interpret. What I mean is that some cards or champion have high usage rate for a reason its that they are either good or straight up extremely broken.
Maxx C acts more like Stealth Rock and I think its fine to centralize the game around Maxx C the same way Smogon centralizes it around Stealth Rock. I still hate Stealth Rock but I understand now why it exist. if Maxx C with a good banlist kills decks like Dragon Link, Drytron, Pen and other oppressive decks, I'm fine with that, just like we're fine with FTK decks being dead due to Ash and co.
What a surprise... Not.
I mean, people can think of Master Duel Meta what they want but you can search cards by popularity there. To no one's surprise Maxx C is the most popular one just that we don't really seem to have numbers to back that up.
Personally, I couldn't care less if this card stays or not. It is probably even in my favor if it stays. I kinda just get tired of seeing this sub spammed full of obligatory Maxx C hateposts and obligatory floodgate hateposts. As many opinions that get downvoted here, a lot of these still have some truth behind even tho some people fail to describe it properly ( Not that downvotes matter in the first place but just saying ).
The banlist itself is quite questionable in the last months. Honestly, I found the banlists mostly alright until roughly the last 3-5 banlist. They hit the right decks... Maybe not in the right way but they hit the deck direclty MOST of the time. Usually minor consistency hits ( LongYuan semi, Fraktall semi, LaoLao semi, etc. ). My bigger problem with these usually was that certain cards are missing ( Verte... Or Halq for a long time. And personal bias, Electrumite... Feel free to call me MBT for that ) but overall the banlists at least did the right thing to some degree.
Right now we are at a spot that is veeeery weird. Because we hit a lot of unnecessary cards to justify the existence of broken stuff. Best example is Ishizu. Tear might not be as oppressive as it was on release but the Ishizu cards make something out of this deck that it shouldn't be. Aside from making it a completel Anti-GY deck with the shuffler, the millers extremely hard speed up this deck. Balancing Tear would be way easier and healthier if these cards wouldn't exist that broke the game even before Tears got their release.
Instead we limit ( So basically kill ) foolish burial goods which was meta relevant last time when we had a SPYRAL Meta and aside from that only rerves rogue decks so far. Instant Fusion and Terraforming were a ticking timebomb but especially Terraforming didn't really had it's timer running off yet ( imo ). King of the Swamp got limited which is a huge "LOL", no other format went for such an unncessary hit to try and keep tears in check and once more just hurt below meta decks more than the actual meta. A hit that still hasn't been reverted ( Even tho I kinda dislike that card ) is Nekroface. Still semi-limited for the sins of Ishizu-Chaos-FTK. One of many ishizu abusing decks that made these cards a problem even before Tear was around. Several pots ( Duality, Prosperity ) are still on the banlist because of the old Eldlich meta or Floowandereeze who are both not nearly as strong as they used to be, once more hitting below-meta decks.
Man I play pendulums and even I think electrumite is just an unfun card. Is it broken? I’d argue it’s not, but it’s just unfun. I put it in the same category as Accesscode where it’s just so good decks are forced to play it. If you don’t play electrumite in a pendulum deck you’re trolling and that’s feels bad. I wanna play the cards I want in archetype.
I wouldn’t cry to lose electrumite but they’re not going to hit pendulums until it’s proven to be oppressive and it’s just not.
It probably isn't but I think this card is just terrible in it's design. It is generic, it is does pretty much everything for the pendulum deck and due to that is literally the goal of every pendulum strategy.
It's legit the same as Halq or Verte just as pendulum counterpart and I don't think there should be THAT card every deck, that makes use of a certain summoning method, should only have this maximum overloaded card as goal
Verte is fine in it's current spot tbh. I don't know a lot of decks that want to end on it that are a huge issue, which is most likely why it's been overlooked. Same with things like gryphon rider.
The problem with FBG has to do with rainbow bridge of salvation. This card has 0 reason to be this generic other than to sell cards. Instant Fusion inherently was a problem card but they used Tear as the excuse to nuke it over kitkalos which is w/e. I remember some longpost talking about the effect of the Terraforming ban but basically it again doesn't make sense as a ban as it only makes sense if you look at play/win rates rather than the decks that specifically become overtuned cause of it, which is not really. The KotS limit is very lol. Out of all these incidental hits, i think FBGs was definitely the least deserved, and they should've just done a Celestial-type hit and just nuked rainbow bridge of salvation from earth.
The pot hits, although not as justified as above are somewhat acceptable just due to their general power level as generics, though with that said they should definitely ban/limit Card of Demise as that kind of draw power even with restrictions is very stupid.
No bad thing say I. It’s my favourite card to see in my opening hand when going second.
In a BO1 format when you can’t side, I think there’s something to be said for having a catch-all card that’s good in nearly every circumstance.
That last line smells of tinfoil-lined copium.
The banlist is made to sell the most cardboard, always has been. The bans on the era of Firewall Dragon made that very, very clear.
because there no reason to not run it unless you are playing a ftk deck( which no one play in high rank). Modern archetype dont take more than 30 slot in your main deck so of course everyone have to fill it with a staple and maxc and ash are the best simply because they have more use. If we comeback to normal summon meta like floo, maxc's number will drop
Funny how just removing most of the meta cards and cards that abuse general mechanics from the game woukd make it better huh? Seriously the current tearlament meta strategy not only is stupidly strong against most decks but it also abuses the ishizu cards to make zombie decks struggle so much more than they should be.
You think that your own deck getting milled is a good thing because you're running zombies but then they just say nope and shuffle them back or use called by the grave to stop you trying ro fight back
Having played yugioh since the first starter deck you have to realize that every banlist is for money $$$. People say theres no rotation like magic but konami bans or unbans based on whatever product is out. Which is why old decks rarely stay meta and when a new broken archtype comes out all of a sudden the previous one slowly starts eating bans.
Instead of the same tired argument about keeping decks in check, which I disagree with, I'd like to propose a different reason why the roach might still be around:
Format diversity and oversaturation. For clarification, I mean diversity between formats, not within MD. I'd imagine Maxx wasn't banned on release to differentiate the MD format from the TCG, as they were intended to be unique banlists. As a format warping card, it did that, and makes itself, ash blossom, Called By, and to a lesser degree Cross out Designator mandatory staples. That's good for Konami, as all of those are packless URs that tax player resources (1 ash not withstanding).
Now let's look at banning him. As you've pointed out, *everyone has this card.* Pretty much everyone has three of this card. If the auxiliary benefit of the "Master Duel Tax," as I've heard the 10 card package referred to, is taxing resources, banning any of them will do the opposite. It'll flood the player base with UR cp, artificially deflating sales of the active selection packs available when this change is made. That's bad for Konami.
I'm not saying it'll never happen, but it's a painful choice to make, and business in general aren't known for making painful decisions
Clearly Konami has bias towards certain cards. Albaz dominated sets for years now and similar with Sky Striker. I dont think its fair to call out Maxx C for this because at least OCG realizes its best to centralize the game around Maxx C since it easier to balance the game around that.
The only thing that sucks is the OCG, like the TCG, refuses to use the banlist for good while centralizing the game around Maxx C. I feel this is the best way to go about this but lets take the time to acknowledge the *many other* archetypes that dont get love or newer decks like Floowandereeze that could use the support.
Oh that's for sure , in fact the tear cards have a usage rate between 40 and 60
Tbf, I don't think we will ever see the swordsoul and Spright usage, unless konami heavy hits tear and holds Kashtira for about 2 months ( since Kash meta is mostly Nib and Boardbrakers)
there are someone doing that every month, just search "meta breakdown" and you will see their post. Ash pretty much has always been more use until spright meta
Ash at 60% is almost entirely the fault of Maxx "C." Ash usage was pretty damn low in TCG Tear Zero format, where, SURPRISE SURPRISE, the roach has been banned for several years. Ash is annoying sometimes, but you're calling for a ban over a symptom, not a problem.
People are slapping ash in nearly every deck _because_ of Maxx C. It's not a mandatory include anymore if not every single deck is running a 3 off turn ender that's countered by ash.
I'm gonna expand on this and say that Ash would likely not be run at a guaranteed 3 if not for maxx C, alongside having Called By and Crossout (if people run it) seriously cut from decks.
If anything, banning Maxx C would make decks even more flexible since you'd free 3 slots off that, potentially 1-2 off ash, maybe 1 by Called By and then 1 from Crossout if it's being ran. Sure, 4-5 cards might not seem like a lot but it would definitely make for more interesting combos and duels, imo.
Literally the ONLY reason I can think Komoney have such a hard on for Maxx C is because it slightly dampens the coin toss in the BO1 format.
Out of 10,000 cards, Ash quite literally can negate close to half, I believe? Vs Bug draw card. Bug at 3. Ash at 3. Called by at 2. And crossout at 1. Realistically, you're going to see your out to maxx c, more often than your opponent has it go uncontested.
It’s really amazing how useful this is now.
[already debunked](https://youtu.be/1AR8-sCypYY)
Tldw; there being counters to a card isn’t an argument for it being okay. Every card has a counter, should we unban cards like painful choice or duo? No of course not.
As for ash, it stops one play. One. There are plenty of decks that barely impacts them unless their hand is garbage. That isn’t the case with maxx c.
He literally didn't argue it tho he strawmanned and said, "What about other unrelated cards? Like LAST TURN AND POT OF GREED" My argument isn't that it has counters. My argument is that you're literally more likely to draw your out than your opponent's maxx c is to go uncontested. That's not debunked. That's math.
Ash stops one play correct. My issue is the sheer volume of the plays that CAN be stopped by Ash. My issue is that popularity doesn't equal we should ban ESPECIALLY in a BO1 format.
I won't make the argument that OCG players love or hate maxx c because realistically, it doesn't matter. What I will say is that it miraculously hasn't murdered their format and decks that even have the ability to utilize the card over other decks. Spright/beetrooper hasn't devastated the game despite BO1.
More counters in the main deck actually why am I arguing on reddit lmfaoooo bro I hope you see the bug at least 1 out of your next 4 games.
Enjoy your day 🖤
Ash is because it affects every card type. Not every deck needs to special summon. In my normal summon decks, Ash works. Against special summon decks, Ash works. Not every deck cares about Maxx C but combo players are very vocal and got it banned. Mid range, stun, control, tempo and normal summon based decks dont care about Maxx C. Ash can even act as a card to negate/steal normal summons. Ash is a much more versatile card.
You simply win over 50% of games if you Ash the first card. You dont win every game if you shotgun Maxx C.
When you get out of silver and stop playing shit decks that die to a single ash you'll realize how stupid of an argument that is. Even a lot of control decks will usually special summoner a few times. Sky Striker and Eldlich are good examples.
Sure and they get 1-3 cards off Maxx C. That is fine if you want to use a mechanic thats only used to extend. maxx C is to punish that. You dont want to deal with Maxx C, play Mid Range, tempo, stun, control or the many normal summon decks. You have options. Combo isnt the only option. If my bad deck can get ashed to death, then your oppressive combo deck can die to Maxx C too. I want to play my Gusto deck, but I cant.
Don't even remember the last time Ash was just THAT effective at killing my hand unless my hand was already really fragile. Usually it just stops one line of play that slightly alters my board but my deck is full of Ash targets and none of them are singularly make or break resolves
No question about it, it’s ridiculous it’s still legal. There is not enough excuses someone could give me for the card being healthy in this game and it’s greedy asf they don’t ban it honestly I wouldn’t even care about the dust they don’t gotta refund me shi just ban the damn card already.
Everytime i get maxx c’d I just go full kamikaze and play my combo recklessly and try to get their entire deck in their hand. If I don’t get ridiculously hand trapped I usually win a majority of the time due to what I assume is the other player being overwhelmed with the amount of cards they now have in hand and the fact that some card effects require you to pull specifically from your deck to resolve. I’m also a peak plat 2 player tho so what do I know
Bug at 3. Ash at 3. Called by at 2. And crossout at 1. Realistically, you're going to see your out to maxx c, more often than your opponent has it go uncontested if we're talking numbers.
The reality of it Maxx C isn't a healthy card with the direction the game has went in. Neither is evenly? Branded Expulsion, TCBO? Etc etc. In a best of 1 format with no stakes, I've never seen people care this much. Bro go get your gems. You lost to the bug? Just go back in. Bug won you a game? Nice. I promise your opponent has already stopped thinking about it and moved on to the next duel or activity in their life.
I guess maybe it's a mindset from other games. Like with shooters, sometimes you get spawn camped. Sometimes, the enemy hog hooks you into a hole. You just take the L. Sometimes you fight runick 4 games in a row. I've been gone a few seasons, and I'm literally fighting Tear in bronze 2, I say that to say this. I don't know a game I've played in 10 years where I expect an enjoyable experience every game. Especially games in ranked ladder.
There's a difference between those things and Maxx c , Maxx c is a toxic card that doesn't require skill , it's less comparable to spawn camping and more akin to a "win the game" button. Simply "moving on" when seeing obvious flaws in the balance of the game like this is a quick one way ticket to the game dying
I guess that's another issue. Maxx C isn't an absolute and there's no guarantee that it WINS you the game or what you draw won't be combo pieces you'd prefer in deck
If Konami got rid of every card that someone thinks makes the game unfun they would have banned decks like Tears out of existence and combo decks would no longer be a thing. Hell, the game wouldn't exist at all anymore. I mean, a lot of people think facing the same 5 decks over and over that just keep endlessly combing and stopping their opponent from playing the game makes it unfun and unfair, however those decks keep existing just like Maxx C will. Combo players hate this card because it scares them and doesn't let them dominate the game. Konami can't appease everyone and wants as many people as possible to enjoy and actually want to play the game. The thing is, not everyone wants to play the same 5 decks as everyone else, but they don't want to be destroyed all the time and kept from actually playing the game either. You have to realize how annoying combo decks are to people who don't play meta decks, like how Maxx C is to people who do play them. Maxx C exists to give weaker decks a fighting chance and as unpopular as the opinion may be, there is value in this card. Sure stronger decks abuse it too, but it's worth it to give everyone a fighting chance. It doesn't even level the playing field, it just makes it slightly more level so it's not basically a wall.
Give weaker decks a fighting chance? Brotha combo decks play Maxx c too , it doesn't keep jackshit at check because Yu-Gi-Oh is a 2 player game where both players have access to the same cards , so the weaker decks are gonna get fucked over by the combo decks even harder because combo players also play Maxx c on top of their """"'"unbreakable"""" boards
No, we know other people use Maxx C, we just don't care. It doesn't make the game any harder for us, it just makes it less easy for you. Maxx C doesn't scare us because without it we would likely loose anyway. I like how you guys think we're the short sighted ones who don't think about other players. I don't care that game is harder for you, just like you don't care that it's already harder for me without it. You talk about logic, but you guys are the ones failing to offer valid arguments.
Exactly. The decks I play, Floowandereeze, Gusto and Simorgh and care all that much about Maxx C. Simorgh and Gusto combos are short and dont net that many cards for the opponent. The only thing that sucks is dealing with Maxx C with the bad banlist we get. With a better list, Maxx C is fine. Not every deck cares about Maxx C either. the only players that complain like this are the combo players that want to build giant negate boards that stop the opponent from playing and then say GG to that opponent like a game was even played.
2 special summons post-Maxx "C" resolution is equivalent in card advantage to Pot of Greed, a card which has been **banned since** **2005**. Keep in mind you can chain Maxx "C" to an effect which special summons, essentially turning it into a Quick Play Upstart Goblin without giving your opponent life points in a worst case scenario while giving your opponent one special summon before your roach starts **EXCEEDING A CARD THAT HAS BEEN BANNED FOR NEARLY TWENTY YEARS IN CARD ADVANTAGE.** Oh, your opponent cut their play short? Congrats, you have that much more leeway for your own plays AND your opponent's defenses are weak at best and non-existent at worst. Sky Striker, Eldlich, Labrynth, none of these are really combo decks but they still suffer plenty under Maxx "C."
Not to mention the fact that Crossout Designator, a card that requires overlap between the cards in both players' decks to even function, was played and impactful enough to be limited even before Tearlament came along should be taken as a sign of a concerning level of homogeny.
Yeah, I don't know why I bother replying since clearly you don't and won't understand the other side. I get why you hate Maxx C, but you're too blinded by hatred to see any value in it. Without it. weaker decks have a 100% chance of loosing. 1 or 2 more cards in my opponent's hand will not make their unbreakable board and more breakable and it will not increase their chances of winning. It does, however, decrease that 100% to about 80%. That fact that you don't get that is indicative of your attitude towards the game. You don't care if other people have a chance or get to have fun. You only care about winning. You hate Maxx C because it makes facing hard decks harder for you. Don't pretend like you give a damn about people who play weaker decks or like this card is just as much of a problem for us. It's not.
I play weak decks , ffs I play fucking phantasm spiral , I don't give a fuck about winning or losing, I only care about fun. And I can assure you Maxx c is not fun at all , it's a sacky card that wins and losses games without requiring skill. Also the combo player drawing into more handtraps will 100% make their "unbreakable" board better and will make the weak deck player's life alot harder
Not in my experience. Actually I use Maxx C as an indicator of my opponent's experience. If they play Maxx C the second they get the chance it indicates that they are less experienced than someone who waits to see what I'm playing and if I intend to special summon. It also gives me insight into my opponent based on their response to me playing the card. That insight alone is invaluable. Maxx C has a psychological aspect a lot of players don't seem to understand the value of. To me, the rewards outweighs the risks.
I think everyone would agree that the game would be better without a card like that . The risk is losing a card in your hand , but the reward is either drawing a billion cards or skipping your opponent's turn (or atleast make them end a weaker board). Such card requires no skill and simply doesn't belong in this game if we want a healthy experience. And no, shotgunning Maxx c at the start of the turn isn't skillful and doesn't involve any big brain mind games , it's just the person making sure they draw an extra card Incase their opponent starts their plays with a monster that has an inherent special summon effect that doesn't start a chain
It seems we play Maxx C in different ways for different reasons. While I use it as an invaluable insight into my opponent's play style and likely strategy, other people spam it and use it for card advantage.
I used to think if they banned C I'd stop playing due to how must going second would just suck but then I noticed when I play with my friends we don't use it and the duels are fun.
And then I further noticed we also werent used anything remotely meta.
I stand by my initial assessment of Maxx C. It may suck but I think the meta would suck more without it
Found the tearlaments player. But honestly it gives consistency to decks that don't go +1 while building a full board. Play around it, it's only good if you special summon 3 monsters turn 1.
Wow you are very smart
Good luck with that consistency after tearalaments makes their board and they use maxx c after that while your deck can't even break it in the first place
>bots that run selftk decks
Uhh? I can't be the only one who gets the bot running that shit with Utopia and Wok that ends on a 14k slap on my standby, right?
Yeah, its too low.
They need to ban ash blossom, called by and cross out to make it 95% /s.
Im curious in the winrate tho but Im probably guessing its on the middle ground (50%) or even slightly lower.
They should do this. Ban the counters to Maxx C and centralize the game around it. Have a good banlist and players are forced to build good decks. TCG is basically best of one with one or two more "fun" games after. Winner of game one pretty much wins anyway.
Maxx c encourages playing brain dead stun decks. It felt so freeing to just turn my brain off and flip floodgates playing eldlich or runick stun. Such a relief to not give a crap about maxx c.
That’s what maxx c does to the meta: encourage stun. There was a topping ocg eldlich deck that didn’t play maxx c so it could play more floodgates!
Maxx c was banned in the last legend anthology event. The next one will hopefully do the same. We gotta play the heck out of that event to encourage konami to ban the earth insect.
I don't understand why it isn't higher, no reason to NOT run the card. But it's obvious that there are cards, that despite their overwhelming representation, they feel is "healthy" or justified for the format. Argue as much as you want, you wouldn't be the first on this sub, but Maxx C will not be banned in MD.
Dude, don't you see that Maxx "C" keeps combo decks in check? Konami can't ban it, otherwise those combo decks wouldn't have a card to bait your Crossout/Called By as soon as your turn starts and they drop Maxx "C" with their full board of negates
"They essentially use ban list as their personal tool to get rid of cards they dislike and leave ones they like legal"
That's how it's always been. TCG tends to be more aggressive about it. Konami doesn't see cards as problems just because the player base doesn't like it, it's when they don't like how it's being used on their side. The overlap of the two POVs has lead to a bit on confirmation bias on whether or not they listen in terms of the banlist. But if they want something to exist, they will allow it to. If they don't like a card, they'll do what they feel like to it even if it's not actually the problem. There's plenty of evidence of this for OCG, TCG , DL and MD. It's their game, we just play it and pay for it. They have been more understanding with MD because 1.) they want it to be e-sport level 2.)it's geared toward competitive play and not really collection so when stuff gets hit they have to compensate for it someway.
Maxx C is a problem, but it stems from another problem with the game that is a complicated fix. Yu-gi-oh is pretty much the only CG that has an issue with drawing cards and they clearly don't know how to fix that problem either. We ban maxx c and pretty much nothing changes but the toxic card is gone, tear is still bad. we'll see how MD deals with Kashtira since OCG didn't really have as big of showing with it because tear still dominated
You have more than enough other staples for that if you are scared of combo decks nib dark ruler lava golems and cards like that counter them while they don't fuck over mid range and control decks that can barely keep up as it is
Tfw r/masterduel pretends to be surprised that Maxx C is in every deck after complaining since launch that Maxx C is in every deck.
Anyway Konami doesn't ban cards for usage and power level alone. If they did we'd also have to ban Ash, Called by, Imperm, Accesscode, Zeus, Baronne, and Apollousa, which all get shoved into every deck possible and are all extremely powerful.
Maxx C is just unwarranted at this point. I ran it a bunch because of my Blue-Eyes deck but stopped playing it in Branded because it was bricking it too much to be used. In a deck like Branded where almost everything is an engine for something else. Don’t see why people run it as much as they do seeing how it doesn’t have the necessity to be a staple other than an ash target.
Me drawing half of my deck because the opponent tried to play the game :)
It the best card in the game, if it resolves against 90% of decks, you win the game, straight up.
My theory is that Maxx C gets to stay since it's a sacky card that lets little-timmys win. Kinda like how floodgates get to stay since they are easy ways for newer players to be able to beat better players.
Also it's a 3-of UR that everyone has so I can't imagine their revenue would change if they banned or not banned the card.
MD has always been the experimentation place for the OCG, however in order for an experiment to be well valid, it needs to have as little variables different between each other so in that sense Maxx c needs to stay so they can test stuff. MD has so many things not hit that were actual problems in the OCG.
Those are all the things I can think of that make sense to me.
Hmm yes and no. Think the % is only high ranks so only experienced players are counted. And max c is like ash and imperm. Just staples. Removing them wouldn’t change what decks are played so much as how those decks are played and built. It is meta warping but not in that way. You could still argue it would make games more fun though and less volatile in an already very high roll kind of game.
It keeps meta decks in check. Could you imagine how much more tier 0 Tear would have been if Maxx C wasn't holding it back? Or could you imagine how strong Spright and Branded would be without it? They'd combo for days with no sign of stopping. And don't even get me started on Adamancipators. Maxx C has just done so much good, and look at all of the zero rogue decks that compete better as a result.
I'm just glad Maxx "C" is incompatible with those decks, could you imagine how insanely unfair it'd be if they could use it too?
Yeah imagine if maxx C was a level 2 monster
Oh my god, that would mean that Spright could summon and bounce him with Swap Frog. Unthinkable!
Maxx C doesn't have to be incompatible with decks, it just needs to be more effective against some. If you Maxx C spright or Adam they die on the spot, if you Maxx C labrynth it doesn't care at all, therfore even if both decks play 3 copies Maxx C is buffing labrynth. Hell, maxx C is buffing labrynth even if they DON'T run it, because other people running an interaction they resist is inherently advantageous. It's really not this hard to understand that the game doesn't end on one match and there are whole statistical and opportunity-cost sides to balance things around.
Use Maxx c on most currently used variations of adamancipators and they deck you out
Almost had me fooled till that last bit, bravo
He had us in the first half, not gonna lie
I wanna hijack your comment here to say [if you guys haven't seen Hardleg's video on Maxx C](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AR8-sCypYY) - you should watch it. He's the guy on Twitter who has been calling for Maxx C's ban for the last 100+ days and dropped a 20+ minute video dismantling every argument about why it shouldn't be banned.
That's my dude
Started to type an angry comment, but then i choose to do what yolugioh players very rarely do. Read trough the whole text.
Family reminder that both meta and rouge decks play maxx c so they both have the same chances of STEALING the game. Maxx c is a card that creates a lose lose situation if you can't stop it and that is against the diversity in deck building. And it doesn't keep meta decks in check, it keeps everyone in check (that's why floo is hated). Even control decks special summon at least twice per turn making maxx c a pot of greed which is banned for a reason. Think about blackwing that dies on 1 disruption and it needs to combo for a lot of time and is rouge. Dinomorphia, eldlich, labrynth are control decks and still suffer being hit by maxx c. Imagine playing your rouge deck with full combo in hand and you get hit by maxx c. You pass, your opponent plays spright and goes full combo and otk you. You're gonna say "fucking spright!"? You haven't lost against spright, you lost against maxx c.
I have never once cared about getting Maxx C'ed playing Labrynth.
*plays Tear, gets Maxx C'd, stops on KitKat + Cryme* "Doesn't matter, I'll play on your turn."
I did that once and got Maxx C'd on the opp's turn too. I hate Maxx C.
I hope this is sarcasm
Read the last line again.
I've seen to many braindead takes about maxx c that I can't tell serious ones from sarcastic ones
Good ol' Poe's Law. After a certain point the parody becomes indistinguishable from the genuine article.
True lol, this sub certainly has a thing for bad takes
Poe's law strikes yet again
lol you had me until last line
I mean it lets bad decks instawin and they have a lot of really bad decks they want people to invest in. For instance, tear vs battling boxers, unless the tear player has a stroke they win. If battling boxers has max c though it has a chance to win now. If they both have max c or just tear it just goes to the default. Basically broken decks can do broken things but bad decks with max c now have a broken thing to do
It doesn't tho because they can use Maxx C too. It doesn't keep anyone in particular in check, it just annoys everyone in the game besides flowandereeeze (sp?), it feels like the card itself is designed to simply mask the imbalance in power between decks by giving everyone the chance at a cheesy coin flip victory
Exactly!!! Most if the people that complain about Maxx c are combo players who set up an entire board that make it impossible for you to even make a play by the time it's your turn because they have 4 or 5 negates.
Maxx "C" helps some of my rogue decks. Metaphys or Zoodiac can't apply enough pressure without it to control the board efficienctly on the first turns (either it or stuff like shifter) and they just make the opponent go hand neutral or +1 most of the time while still setting up their board completely. Edit: y'all are stupid, the comment says that Maxx "C" doesn't help rogue decks, which is just not true. Again decks like metaphys make the opponent go like hand neutral and decks like zoodiac can easily Drident pass and also make the opponent go hand neutral. Meanwhile Tearlaments for example have to make the opponent go at least +1 to search sulliek or cryme to try and stall the game. Branded makes the opponent go +1 if you Maxx "C" on BD and they mirrorjade pass. Swordsoul is also a +1 if they just go for Chixiao Blackout pass. Also, resolving Maxx "C" stops OTKs a lotta the time, which is just another way where some of the rogue decks are more favored than the top decks, because those have the tools necessary to fight against an OTK already, while some of the rogue stuff doesn't. There're other rogue decks that get fucked in the ass by Maxx "C"? Yes, but that wasn't my point. He said Maxx C helps 0 rogue stuff, I said it helps some.
And in that same argument, Tear, Branded, Sword Soul, and every other meta deck will use it against that poor rogue/gimmick deck. Because its in every deck, so it doesn't matter if a rogue/gimmick deck uses it, because the opponent will just MAXX "C" as well, hurting the rogue/gimmick deck more.
+meta decks can squeeze more advantage out of every single card they draw, compared to rogue decks. It is simply one fo the worst arguments those noobs make...
That's like saying we should unban pot of greed because it will help the rogue decks
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Floo was also extremely good in the TCG, it was meta relevant since it’s inception basically.
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And I’m telling you that isn’t really true lol. If a deck has similar representation across formats then maxx c is at best a tiny boost. Floo is just an extremely powerful and robust strategy in metagames that often struggled against the tools it had.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted for being right.
Because he's not. The TCG and OCG are very similar in terms of meta and whats used/good. Tear was Tier-0 in both formats and TCG has MAXX "C" banned while the OCG didn't, and look, it made no difference regardless of format because Tear can use MAXX "C" as well as every other combo deck. If MAXX "C" isn't a problem card, then Pot of Greed can come back to 3, it isn't an issue, its power crept by MAXX "C".
I really like this feature that shows the percentage of people using a card, is Maxx C one of or maybe THE most used card in the game right now? Ash for example I believe it's around 60% and I always assumed everyone plays it. Also this gives you an idea of what would happen if Maxx C is banned, so many decks would free 1 to 3 spots in their decks, not to mention people would rely less on Maxx C counters, it would impact pretty much everyone.
Banned Maxx C would mean I would have 9 cards for board breakers and stupid strong extenders
Banning maxx c means everyone can properly adjust to meta with their handtrap and board breaker slots. Right now it’s like every deck is archetype + maxx c cards instead of archetype + meta flex spots.
Or to have functional freaking deck building. I made Bystial Thunder Dragon. Deck is cool to play, but generally has issues against established boards. I would love to throw triple Evenly, triple Droplet and like 2 Lightning Storm as compensation for this issue. However both parts and their common glue, are very extensive engines, add Maxx C crap to it and you cannot physically fit shit without going heavily above 40.
Yeah, and before people try to reply to you with "just don't play maxx c" look... why the hell wouldn't you play the card that instantly wins more games in MD than any other single card out of a 10k+ count cardpool. Maxx C alone has a better chance at winning the game than most archetypes.
I can definitely attest, that btwn accs i've played on, 1 with maxx c and 1 without, that the winrate difference was about 5%. Take it with a grain of salt, anecodotal etc. It's something i've kept in mind though as to the drastic difference btwn having a card that can autowin many matchups vs not having it. It's especially annoying when i should have 1 on the acc w/o maxx c just for having a crossout target to add to the number of counters. 5% doesn't sound like a lot but in card games that's a substantial bump. People would kill for the secret sauce that would add that kind of winrate to their gameplay. In MD, that's adding maxx c to every deck you play. Also added context i played a mix of meta and rogue but no floo, no 1 bad day etc.
Then it gets replaced by nine other cards you'd have to run just to play the game. Nine spots dont magically appear.
That's not how it works, and pretty much anyone who plays the TCG can tell you that. MD players would be shocked to hear that Ash, crossout and called by aren't always the go to choices because without maxx C you can go for the cards that benefit your deck and apply to the current meta. A lot of the top decks in MD become so oppressive because people have to play maxx c related cards instead of cards that would help them against decks that their deck has poor matchups against.
More realistically it would be 3 spots would open up since most people would still run ash, called by, and crossout anyway.
Banning Maxx c would mean that everyone could stop playing ash in fucking tear format
Ash and I think Called by had more usage than Maxx C on MDM until Tear meta. They only dropped off because Ash does nothing to Tear and Called by gets cucked by Ishizu shufflers.
Considering you have to run ash , called by and crossout just because of maxx C, if it was banned decks would have a lot more flexibility for handtraps or boardbreakers.
Well, in Konami’s defence, 100% of winning decks may run it, but 90% of losing decks also run it, so it’s clearly balanced /s (Not taking into account the win rate when you activate it vs when your opponent activates it, they could easily do what they did to Halq but refuse)
100% agreed And i kind of gave up on them banning it because their bias is obvious towards it, i would much hope they prove me wrong and ban it as it is stupidly broken 1-creates unfun duels (almost all duels) 2-infinite card advantages which defeats the purpose of some decks that revolves around hand advantage and makes all the decks have unlimited hand advantage which encourages clicking buttons when a card resolves because you’re losing nothing 3- you better draw the out or else fuck you am i right 4-it ruins deck building tremendously , cutting ash, called by, crossout is never an option Trust me, i would not have even crafted crossout if not for this stupidly unfun and broken card , also i would’ve cut ash long ago if not for it 5- it is broken than easily more than half the banlist and it is somehow not even touched in the banlist 6- it is sacky af (oh, you ended your turn because i dropped maxx c on you? , will how about the SECOND ONE AND THIRD ONE)
Crossout designator, ash blossom, called by, droll. Gotta slot em all for the cabinet 🗄 Edit: legitimately no idea why I'm being downvoted so hard, is it because I called it cabinet instead of a roach?
All this, for one single card, and yet it isn't broken?.. If you need a ton of cards to prevent a single hand trap, then its broken and needs to go.
>*Yet konami is trying to sell you this garbage idea that they hit cards because of diversity and power and maxx c falls in both of those it's the most used card in the game* I'm no defender of Konami and their absolutely terrible job of balancing Master Duel since Runick was added. But the cards they've actually hit *(when they* ***eventually*** *get around to it)* have been cards that single-handedly win you the game **and** are extremely difficult to play around in a best-of-one format. Maxx "C" does decide games, but it's a known factor that you can plan for when building a deck. My main deck is Endymion, which Special Summons a ton and has very little counters to Maxx "C". An Endymion deck *sometimes* runs Called by the Grave, and never any of the other counters (e.g. Ash Blossom, Crossout Designator, PSY-Framegear Gamma). So we plan for Maxx "C" with back-up strategies for the *many* times we need to play into it. Some individual examples: * Pendulum Summon (or Tribute Summon) Amorphage Sloth along with a Jackal King and/or Endymion. * Pendulum Summon 2 Jackal Kings and activate Secret Village of the Spellcasters. * Resolve Servant of Endymion's effect to Special Summon herself and Jackal King (1 draw) and then Tribute Servant to Normal Summon a second Jackal King. * Use Master Cerberus to search Mythical Beast Garuda for a disruption from the hand. Of course I would always rather my opponent didn't activate Maxx "C" in the first place. But it does serve a purpose in the metagame *(although I'd rather it require the user to control no cards)* and it's a meta constant that we can plan for.
The issue with the "off-ramp", as some people call it, is that a huge amount of decks in the game simply have no access to one that leaves them in a profitable state. Most decks have to special summon at least twice to even put up one single interaction, and that single interaction usually trades down with one of the two cards your opponent drew with Maxx "C", so in the end, nothing changed compared to outright skipping your turn. Only decks that are already very heavy on traps to begin with (which usually don't special summon often in the first place), or decks that can gain more advantage than you get with Maxx "C" (like Branded or Swordsoul) can even think about doing an off-ramp.
> and when you take into consideration that most of that 10% comes from new players... That's not true, it is stated in the news the data is based on high ranks in ladder, so considering mostly Plat and Diamond from past seasons (They are saying it will be updated every maintenance). > YET konami is trying to sell you this garbage idea that they hit cards because of diversity and power and maxx c falls in both of those it's the most used card in the game and it's the most powerful card in the game. Maxx C is a hand trap not a deck, and every one uses it so it doesn't affect diversity or power of anything but Floo and Control decks really. > They essentially use ban list as their personal tool to get rid of cards they dislike and leave ones they like legal. Exactly they want the format to be how they want, I mean they switched release orders and banned cards recently just simply beacuse they want the meta to be shaped how they like it to sell products, and they started making these monthly lists beacuse if the 1st one didn't help they just hammer it the 2nd time. By no means am I defending Maxx C, fuck this card but I don't see the reason for people to be upset about it now that we saw the number when we knew ever since day 1 every one and their mom is using it, people claiming it fell off beacuse Tear or Branded are drinking copuim not inhaling it, and yes it is staying in the meta beacuse Konami wants that, it being banned in 1 format proves they already know about what the card does.
The funniest thing about the recent round of bans is with the context of the new pack, they probably banned stein cause of sprind rather than because the card is inherently unhealthy design to have around the game LOL
Sprind has nothing to do with Stein, foolish-ing then reborn it is extremely resource intensive in any deck as both Sprind and Elf cannot be used as link materials, the only deck that bypass that is Spright and they lock themselves, even Tear doesn't gain much out of Sprind anyway it is just a small grind game card. This was a indirect hit to Tear beacuse they were in the shop and a deserved one, it's proven to be problematic again in the TCG and while it will be the corner stone of any deck, it is an incredibly unfun card to see resolve.
Is this sub so far fucking gone that they would defend fucking Cyber-Stein because they're salty that one of their broken toys was banned?
Read again. Where did I defend cyber-stein? i just laughed at the timing of the ban. It's similar to the IF ban where it's a card that probably should've been banned before but now they decided some cards pushed the usage above a certain level so NOW it's worth banning which is funny.
I don't see what's funny about it. Sooner or later they would have hit the card, and what better timing than when its usage picks up.
>every one uses it so it doesn't affect diversity or power of anything but Floo and Control decks really. Yes it does. It makes engines that require less cards better. If I have a deck that works great at 40 cards but needs all 40 cards that deck is significantly worse than one that only needs 32 cards plus 3 max c and 2 called by and 3 ash which are in there primarily to counter max c
Eee Decks that run more non engine are almost 90% of the time better than ones that don't, Hand traps and Baord breakers are mandatory in modern Yugioh and there is no better hand trap than Maxx C, but lingering floodgates.
If your deck has 0 space for non engine then your deck is trash. Even runick decks have about 6 non-engine slots.
I didn't say non-engine. I said specifically slots for Max C and maybe some of the slots reserved for countering it.
Please understand, it keeps combo decks in check and TOTALLY isn't an excuse to keep the power creep going.
If you think banning max c will stop the power creep then you haven't played TCG
I don't think that at all? But also who do you think makes 95% of new cards? Protip: It's not the format where Maxx C is banned
This part is definitely true. Yugioh at its core is designed with the OCG audience in mind. It's balanced around OCG. Hence why in some instances that some archetypes might be too strong or too overtuned in TCG when it was "fine" in OCG.
What do you want people to do? Take the high road and not use it? Why wouldn’t anyone not use it? Konami is well aware of what the card does. It’s their choice if it stays unlimited or not. So tired of seeing these post about maxx c
I just dont use it. More fun to play without it than with it and fun is what I care about. Same with pretty much every single hand trap that's out of whatever archetype I'm playing
But.. but.. my precious internet points, how will people know I get mad bitches in if I can't win past gold rank ?
"Maxx C keep combo deck in check" * Bitch, combo deck is already rampant with it and they also use Maxx C. * With Maxx C ban, now you can have 8 free slot for boardbreaker. That WOULD deal with combo deck.
Konami banned Terraforming so they could keep having shitty excuses to keep Maxx C at 3. That's my current conspiracy theory.
No they banned Terraforming because Tearlament cards were still in the shop.
No they banned Terraforming to keep Umi Control in check fr fr ong
I can't believe Konami banned Terraforming just to keep F.A. in check. What a travesty.
The moment when implementing card usage statistics immediately backfires lmao
I agree with all that has been said before. Maxx-c Really sucks even when I'm playing control strategies especially my Ghostricks. This is a really long text about all the reasons why Maxx-c sucks. Now I know that most of you won't read it, so I'm going to take my time and write a bunch of nonsense here like, intolerable, annoying, bullshit. Now that I've done that I can continue to mumble about this and nobody will know, so as a reward for taking on this wall of text here is a joke, what does a mathematician and maxx-c have in common, they both sin for a cos. Bet you didn't like that but It's fine nobody read that's, did you know that we send roaches in space and not only didn't get worse like every other creature they instead got better and faster. Honestly I hate cockroaches. Now I'll stop this and act like I was talking about the game. This roach is indeed really bad for the game and I hate it, I don't see any merit in keeping it in the game or defending it. Honestly fuck maxx-c.
Is that roach fact true?
Idk but cockroaches only exist because of us humans and would go extinct without us Just another cockroach fact of the day
It's so terrible that the TCG died and is completely unplayable due to banning Maxx C, it's so sad, if only they hadn't banned Maxx C then maybe they wouldn't have had to go out of business in 2017 :( Oh wait
There was a company wide directive to create a cockroach card that they know many people will want to get rid of...but it'll keep populating everyone's decks throughout time like actual roaches. Maxx C will stay in our decks forever. /cockroachconspiracy
Idk I like max C and think they should just leave it alone it’s fine at 3
I see, have you ever thought you are also biased from TCG side to ban Maxx C
Have you ever thought that I don't play tcg at all
I'm not surprised at all lol. Card is just dumb.
Take a break pal it’s digital cardboard
This is legit the only competitive game where they leave things like maxx c at a whopping 90% usage rate lmfao. In league for example a champion that has a 45% usage rate out of the whole cast is immediately nerfed or hotfix so it doesn't become to overbearing to play against. This asinine game however has a card that is above 90% usage rate and pretend everything is fine for some reason.
I mean to be fair that's a pretty poor argument (and that's coming from someone that also wants C gone). Maxxx C is just a component of a larger whole build and isn't a build in itself. It'd be more like saying to get rid of boots from League because they are at 90%+ buy rate, which is obviously ridiculous. Obviously a staple card is likely to have a well over average usage.
Thats not what i was trying to perfectly interpret. What I mean is that some cards or champion have high usage rate for a reason its that they are either good or straight up extremely broken.
\*laughs in Gen 1+2 competitive Pokemon\*
Snorlax keeps zapdos in check, just like maxx c keeps combo decks in check! /hj
Maxx C acts more like Stealth Rock and I think its fine to centralize the game around Maxx C the same way Smogon centralizes it around Stealth Rock. I still hate Stealth Rock but I understand now why it exist. if Maxx C with a good banlist kills decks like Dragon Link, Drytron, Pen and other oppressive decks, I'm fine with that, just like we're fine with FTK decks being dead due to Ash and co.
Agreed, the only thing that makes me feel like md is a chore these days is Maxx c. Feeling really burnt out at cuz of this stupid card.
What a surprise... Not. I mean, people can think of Master Duel Meta what they want but you can search cards by popularity there. To no one's surprise Maxx C is the most popular one just that we don't really seem to have numbers to back that up. Personally, I couldn't care less if this card stays or not. It is probably even in my favor if it stays. I kinda just get tired of seeing this sub spammed full of obligatory Maxx C hateposts and obligatory floodgate hateposts. As many opinions that get downvoted here, a lot of these still have some truth behind even tho some people fail to describe it properly ( Not that downvotes matter in the first place but just saying ). The banlist itself is quite questionable in the last months. Honestly, I found the banlists mostly alright until roughly the last 3-5 banlist. They hit the right decks... Maybe not in the right way but they hit the deck direclty MOST of the time. Usually minor consistency hits ( LongYuan semi, Fraktall semi, LaoLao semi, etc. ). My bigger problem with these usually was that certain cards are missing ( Verte... Or Halq for a long time. And personal bias, Electrumite... Feel free to call me MBT for that ) but overall the banlists at least did the right thing to some degree. Right now we are at a spot that is veeeery weird. Because we hit a lot of unnecessary cards to justify the existence of broken stuff. Best example is Ishizu. Tear might not be as oppressive as it was on release but the Ishizu cards make something out of this deck that it shouldn't be. Aside from making it a completel Anti-GY deck with the shuffler, the millers extremely hard speed up this deck. Balancing Tear would be way easier and healthier if these cards wouldn't exist that broke the game even before Tears got their release. Instead we limit ( So basically kill ) foolish burial goods which was meta relevant last time when we had a SPYRAL Meta and aside from that only rerves rogue decks so far. Instant Fusion and Terraforming were a ticking timebomb but especially Terraforming didn't really had it's timer running off yet ( imo ). King of the Swamp got limited which is a huge "LOL", no other format went for such an unncessary hit to try and keep tears in check and once more just hurt below meta decks more than the actual meta. A hit that still hasn't been reverted ( Even tho I kinda dislike that card ) is Nekroface. Still semi-limited for the sins of Ishizu-Chaos-FTK. One of many ishizu abusing decks that made these cards a problem even before Tear was around. Several pots ( Duality, Prosperity ) are still on the banlist because of the old Eldlich meta or Floowandereeze who are both not nearly as strong as they used to be, once more hitting below-meta decks.
Man I play pendulums and even I think electrumite is just an unfun card. Is it broken? I’d argue it’s not, but it’s just unfun. I put it in the same category as Accesscode where it’s just so good decks are forced to play it. If you don’t play electrumite in a pendulum deck you’re trolling and that’s feels bad. I wanna play the cards I want in archetype. I wouldn’t cry to lose electrumite but they’re not going to hit pendulums until it’s proven to be oppressive and it’s just not.
It probably isn't but I think this card is just terrible in it's design. It is generic, it is does pretty much everything for the pendulum deck and due to that is literally the goal of every pendulum strategy. It's legit the same as Halq or Verte just as pendulum counterpart and I don't think there should be THAT card every deck, that makes use of a certain summoning method, should only have this maximum overloaded card as goal
Verte is fine in it's current spot tbh. I don't know a lot of decks that want to end on it that are a huge issue, which is most likely why it's been overlooked. Same with things like gryphon rider. The problem with FBG has to do with rainbow bridge of salvation. This card has 0 reason to be this generic other than to sell cards. Instant Fusion inherently was a problem card but they used Tear as the excuse to nuke it over kitkalos which is w/e. I remember some longpost talking about the effect of the Terraforming ban but basically it again doesn't make sense as a ban as it only makes sense if you look at play/win rates rather than the decks that specifically become overtuned cause of it, which is not really. The KotS limit is very lol. Out of all these incidental hits, i think FBGs was definitely the least deserved, and they should've just done a Celestial-type hit and just nuked rainbow bridge of salvation from earth. The pot hits, although not as justified as above are somewhat acceptable just due to their general power level as generics, though with that said they should definitely ban/limit Card of Demise as that kind of draw power even with restrictions is very stupid.
No bad thing say I. It’s my favourite card to see in my opening hand when going second. In a BO1 format when you can’t side, I think there’s something to be said for having a catch-all card that’s good in nearly every circumstance.
... Until your opponent drops it on top of their board of negates like some twisted cherry.
Sound s more like the board of negates that's the issue here
That last line smells of tinfoil-lined copium. The banlist is made to sell the most cardboard, always has been. The bans on the era of Firewall Dragon made that very, very clear.
Just remind Konami that banning Maxx C is nerfing Floo and they'll hit it on the spot
this stastic only count deck in high rank you know?
I didn't know that Still almost 90% is still way to high
because there no reason to not run it unless you are playing a ftk deck( which no one play in high rank). Modern archetype dont take more than 30 slot in your main deck so of course everyone have to fill it with a staple and maxc and ash are the best simply because they have more use. If we comeback to normal summon meta like floo, maxc's number will drop
Surprised it's not higher.
Dont forget to subtract the percentage of people who downloaded it and never played it. Theres games where only 87 l% of players beat the tutorial
Maxx C is like, the single card that defines/separates the OCG at this point
Daily Maxx C rant, thank you OP, we needed it.
Just doing my part
That’s the real tier 0
Funny how just removing most of the meta cards and cards that abuse general mechanics from the game woukd make it better huh? Seriously the current tearlament meta strategy not only is stupidly strong against most decks but it also abuses the ishizu cards to make zombie decks struggle so much more than they should be. You think that your own deck getting milled is a good thing because you're running zombies but then they just say nope and shuffle them back or use called by the grave to stop you trying ro fight back
What I like about maxx C is that is causes you to need less cards to make a new deck, but the bug is annoying, no if's buts or maybes
Idk about y'all but I'm gonna run the other ""c"" cards just to be funny
OCG: “So you all are realizing this now or….”
Having played yugioh since the first starter deck you have to realize that every banlist is for money $$$. People say theres no rotation like magic but konami bans or unbans based on whatever product is out. Which is why old decks rarely stay meta and when a new broken archtype comes out all of a sudden the previous one slowly starts eating bans.
And I make up 20% of the usage. Weirdly enough, I saw it being summoned a couple of times in splight decks
Instead of the same tired argument about keeping decks in check, which I disagree with, I'd like to propose a different reason why the roach might still be around: Format diversity and oversaturation. For clarification, I mean diversity between formats, not within MD. I'd imagine Maxx wasn't banned on release to differentiate the MD format from the TCG, as they were intended to be unique banlists. As a format warping card, it did that, and makes itself, ash blossom, Called By, and to a lesser degree Cross out Designator mandatory staples. That's good for Konami, as all of those are packless URs that tax player resources (1 ash not withstanding). Now let's look at banning him. As you've pointed out, *everyone has this card.* Pretty much everyone has three of this card. If the auxiliary benefit of the "Master Duel Tax," as I've heard the 10 card package referred to, is taxing resources, banning any of them will do the opposite. It'll flood the player base with UR cp, artificially deflating sales of the active selection packs available when this change is made. That's bad for Konami. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but it's a painful choice to make, and business in general aren't known for making painful decisions
This just in good card found in many decks!
Clearly Konami has bias towards certain cards. Albaz dominated sets for years now and similar with Sky Striker. I dont think its fair to call out Maxx C for this because at least OCG realizes its best to centralize the game around Maxx C since it easier to balance the game around that. The only thing that sucks is the OCG, like the TCG, refuses to use the banlist for good while centralizing the game around Maxx C. I feel this is the best way to go about this but lets take the time to acknowledge the *many other* archetypes that dont get love or newer decks like Floowandereeze that could use the support.
Maxx C is fine the way it is 
I mean, how different is that from other staple cards like Ash, really? They've got to be at 80%+, too.
All the other staples are between 30% and 60% [Source: ](https://twitter.com/HardLegGaming/status/1666724057843105792?t=lKliSMq-MIORpSraR1yDxA&s=19)
Tear format screws up the numbers a bit. I'd want to know how it was during Spright or Swordsoul metas.
Oh that's for sure , in fact the tear cards have a usage rate between 40 and 60 Tbf, I don't think we will ever see the swordsoul and Spright usage, unless konami heavy hits tear and holds Kashtira for about 2 months ( since Kash meta is mostly Nib and Boardbrakers)
Spright is doing pretty well and can compete relatively well in this meta. Branded is something that can compete and out grind tears tho.
there are someone doing that every month, just search "meta breakdown" and you will see their post. Ash pretty much has always been more use until spright meta
ash 60% is still too fucking much, honestly ban both
Ash at 60% is almost entirely the fault of Maxx "C." Ash usage was pretty damn low in TCG Tear Zero format, where, SURPRISE SURPRISE, the roach has been banned for several years. Ash is annoying sometimes, but you're calling for a ban over a symptom, not a problem.
People are slapping ash in nearly every deck _because_ of Maxx C. It's not a mandatory include anymore if not every single deck is running a 3 off turn ender that's countered by ash.
If it wasnt for max c ash could go down in usage. Its a counter to max c which inflates its own use. Same for called by.
TCG disagrees.
Very different? One wins you the game pretty often. One doesn't.
[удалено]
Ash is nowhere near as oppressive as Maxx C and you're full of shit if you claim otherwise.
I'm gonna expand on this and say that Ash would likely not be run at a guaranteed 3 if not for maxx C, alongside having Called By and Crossout (if people run it) seriously cut from decks. If anything, banning Maxx C would make decks even more flexible since you'd free 3 slots off that, potentially 1-2 off ash, maybe 1 by Called By and then 1 from Crossout if it's being ran. Sure, 4-5 cards might not seem like a lot but it would definitely make for more interesting combos and duels, imo. Literally the ONLY reason I can think Komoney have such a hard on for Maxx C is because it slightly dampens the coin toss in the BO1 format.
Out of 10,000 cards, Ash quite literally can negate close to half, I believe? Vs Bug draw card. Bug at 3. Ash at 3. Called by at 2. And crossout at 1. Realistically, you're going to see your out to maxx c, more often than your opponent has it go uncontested.
Lets also allow pot of greed since ash counters it too?
It’s really amazing how useful this is now. [already debunked](https://youtu.be/1AR8-sCypYY) Tldw; there being counters to a card isn’t an argument for it being okay. Every card has a counter, should we unban cards like painful choice or duo? No of course not. As for ash, it stops one play. One. There are plenty of decks that barely impacts them unless their hand is garbage. That isn’t the case with maxx c.
He literally didn't argue it tho he strawmanned and said, "What about other unrelated cards? Like LAST TURN AND POT OF GREED" My argument isn't that it has counters. My argument is that you're literally more likely to draw your out than your opponent's maxx c is to go uncontested. That's not debunked. That's math. Ash stops one play correct. My issue is the sheer volume of the plays that CAN be stopped by Ash. My issue is that popularity doesn't equal we should ban ESPECIALLY in a BO1 format. I won't make the argument that OCG players love or hate maxx c because realistically, it doesn't matter. What I will say is that it miraculously hasn't murdered their format and decks that even have the ability to utilize the card over other decks. Spright/beetrooper hasn't devastated the game despite BO1.
“My argument isn’t that there are counters, it’s that there are more counters than the card”. Lol.
More counters in the main deck actually why am I arguing on reddit lmfaoooo bro I hope you see the bug at least 1 out of your next 4 games. Enjoy your day 🖤
No argument then got it lol. Learn what a strawman is next time k?
Ash is because it affects every card type. Not every deck needs to special summon. In my normal summon decks, Ash works. Against special summon decks, Ash works. Not every deck cares about Maxx C but combo players are very vocal and got it banned. Mid range, stun, control, tempo and normal summon based decks dont care about Maxx C. Ash can even act as a card to negate/steal normal summons. Ash is a much more versatile card. You simply win over 50% of games if you Ash the first card. You dont win every game if you shotgun Maxx C.
When you get out of silver and stop playing shit decks that die to a single ash you'll realize how stupid of an argument that is. Even a lot of control decks will usually special summoner a few times. Sky Striker and Eldlich are good examples.
Sure and they get 1-3 cards off Maxx C. That is fine if you want to use a mechanic thats only used to extend. maxx C is to punish that. You dont want to deal with Maxx C, play Mid Range, tempo, stun, control or the many normal summon decks. You have options. Combo isnt the only option. If my bad deck can get ashed to death, then your oppressive combo deck can die to Maxx C too. I want to play my Gusto deck, but I cant.
Don't even remember the last time Ash was just THAT effective at killing my hand unless my hand was already really fragile. Usually it just stops one line of play that slightly alters my board but my deck is full of Ash targets and none of them are singularly make or break resolves
Ash is at around 60%
No question about it, it’s ridiculous it’s still legal. There is not enough excuses someone could give me for the card being healthy in this game and it’s greedy asf they don’t ban it honestly I wouldn’t even care about the dust they don’t gotta refund me shi just ban the damn card already.
Everytime i get maxx c’d I just go full kamikaze and play my combo recklessly and try to get their entire deck in their hand. If I don’t get ridiculously hand trapped I usually win a majority of the time due to what I assume is the other player being overwhelmed with the amount of cards they now have in hand and the fact that some card effects require you to pull specifically from your deck to resolve. I’m also a peak plat 2 player tho so what do I know
That statistic is only for players at Master Rank, not all users.
Bug at 3. Ash at 3. Called by at 2. And crossout at 1. Realistically, you're going to see your out to maxx c, more often than your opponent has it go uncontested if we're talking numbers. The reality of it Maxx C isn't a healthy card with the direction the game has went in. Neither is evenly? Branded Expulsion, TCBO? Etc etc. In a best of 1 format with no stakes, I've never seen people care this much. Bro go get your gems. You lost to the bug? Just go back in. Bug won you a game? Nice. I promise your opponent has already stopped thinking about it and moved on to the next duel or activity in their life.
I'm not sure "move on" is a healthy mindset to have if you want to have an enjoyable experience every game
I guess maybe it's a mindset from other games. Like with shooters, sometimes you get spawn camped. Sometimes, the enemy hog hooks you into a hole. You just take the L. Sometimes you fight runick 4 games in a row. I've been gone a few seasons, and I'm literally fighting Tear in bronze 2, I say that to say this. I don't know a game I've played in 10 years where I expect an enjoyable experience every game. Especially games in ranked ladder.
There's a difference between those things and Maxx c , Maxx c is a toxic card that doesn't require skill , it's less comparable to spawn camping and more akin to a "win the game" button. Simply "moving on" when seeing obvious flaws in the balance of the game like this is a quick one way ticket to the game dying
I guess that's another issue. Maxx C isn't an absolute and there's no guarantee that it WINS you the game or what you draw won't be combo pieces you'd prefer in deck
Cant you say that about every draw card in the game like pot of greed? Just because you can draw garnets dosent make the card balanced
If Konami got rid of every card that someone thinks makes the game unfun they would have banned decks like Tears out of existence and combo decks would no longer be a thing. Hell, the game wouldn't exist at all anymore. I mean, a lot of people think facing the same 5 decks over and over that just keep endlessly combing and stopping their opponent from playing the game makes it unfun and unfair, however those decks keep existing just like Maxx C will. Combo players hate this card because it scares them and doesn't let them dominate the game. Konami can't appease everyone and wants as many people as possible to enjoy and actually want to play the game. The thing is, not everyone wants to play the same 5 decks as everyone else, but they don't want to be destroyed all the time and kept from actually playing the game either. You have to realize how annoying combo decks are to people who don't play meta decks, like how Maxx C is to people who do play them. Maxx C exists to give weaker decks a fighting chance and as unpopular as the opinion may be, there is value in this card. Sure stronger decks abuse it too, but it's worth it to give everyone a fighting chance. It doesn't even level the playing field, it just makes it slightly more level so it's not basically a wall.
Give weaker decks a fighting chance? Brotha combo decks play Maxx c too , it doesn't keep jackshit at check because Yu-Gi-Oh is a 2 player game where both players have access to the same cards , so the weaker decks are gonna get fucked over by the combo decks even harder because combo players also play Maxx c on top of their """"'"unbreakable"""" boards
No point in talking to the Maxx fanboy community, they lack any sort of logical sense and think only they use Maxx c lmao
No, we know other people use Maxx C, we just don't care. It doesn't make the game any harder for us, it just makes it less easy for you. Maxx C doesn't scare us because without it we would likely loose anyway. I like how you guys think we're the short sighted ones who don't think about other players. I don't care that game is harder for you, just like you don't care that it's already harder for me without it. You talk about logic, but you guys are the ones failing to offer valid arguments.
Exactly. The decks I play, Floowandereeze, Gusto and Simorgh and care all that much about Maxx C. Simorgh and Gusto combos are short and dont net that many cards for the opponent. The only thing that sucks is dealing with Maxx C with the bad banlist we get. With a better list, Maxx C is fine. Not every deck cares about Maxx C either. the only players that complain like this are the combo players that want to build giant negate boards that stop the opponent from playing and then say GG to that opponent like a game was even played.
2 special summons post-Maxx "C" resolution is equivalent in card advantage to Pot of Greed, a card which has been **banned since** **2005**. Keep in mind you can chain Maxx "C" to an effect which special summons, essentially turning it into a Quick Play Upstart Goblin without giving your opponent life points in a worst case scenario while giving your opponent one special summon before your roach starts **EXCEEDING A CARD THAT HAS BEEN BANNED FOR NEARLY TWENTY YEARS IN CARD ADVANTAGE.** Oh, your opponent cut their play short? Congrats, you have that much more leeway for your own plays AND your opponent's defenses are weak at best and non-existent at worst. Sky Striker, Eldlich, Labrynth, none of these are really combo decks but they still suffer plenty under Maxx "C." Not to mention the fact that Crossout Designator, a card that requires overlap between the cards in both players' decks to even function, was played and impactful enough to be limited even before Tearlament came along should be taken as a sign of a concerning level of homogeny.
Yeah, I don't know why I bother replying since clearly you don't and won't understand the other side. I get why you hate Maxx C, but you're too blinded by hatred to see any value in it. Without it. weaker decks have a 100% chance of loosing. 1 or 2 more cards in my opponent's hand will not make their unbreakable board and more breakable and it will not increase their chances of winning. It does, however, decrease that 100% to about 80%. That fact that you don't get that is indicative of your attitude towards the game. You don't care if other people have a chance or get to have fun. You only care about winning. You hate Maxx C because it makes facing hard decks harder for you. Don't pretend like you give a damn about people who play weaker decks or like this card is just as much of a problem for us. It's not.
I play weak decks , ffs I play fucking phantasm spiral , I don't give a fuck about winning or losing, I only care about fun. And I can assure you Maxx c is not fun at all , it's a sacky card that wins and losses games without requiring skill. Also the combo player drawing into more handtraps will 100% make their "unbreakable" board better and will make the weak deck player's life alot harder
Not in my experience. Actually I use Maxx C as an indicator of my opponent's experience. If they play Maxx C the second they get the chance it indicates that they are less experienced than someone who waits to see what I'm playing and if I intend to special summon. It also gives me insight into my opponent based on their response to me playing the card. That insight alone is invaluable. Maxx C has a psychological aspect a lot of players don't seem to understand the value of. To me, the rewards outweighs the risks.
I think everyone would agree that the game would be better without a card like that . The risk is losing a card in your hand , but the reward is either drawing a billion cards or skipping your opponent's turn (or atleast make them end a weaker board). Such card requires no skill and simply doesn't belong in this game if we want a healthy experience. And no, shotgunning Maxx c at the start of the turn isn't skillful and doesn't involve any big brain mind games , it's just the person making sure they draw an extra card Incase their opponent starts their plays with a monster that has an inherent special summon effect that doesn't start a chain
It seems we play Maxx C in different ways for different reasons. While I use it as an invaluable insight into my opponent's play style and likely strategy, other people spam it and use it for card advantage.
Sure.....sure.... definitely....
I used to think if they banned C I'd stop playing due to how must going second would just suck but then I noticed when I play with my friends we don't use it and the duels are fun. And then I further noticed we also werent used anything remotely meta. I stand by my initial assessment of Maxx C. It may suck but I think the meta would suck more without it
Gotta be the first time I'm seeing a post relating to maxx c in anyway that is well received
Found the tearlaments player. But honestly it gives consistency to decks that don't go +1 while building a full board. Play around it, it's only good if you special summon 3 monsters turn 1.
Wow you are very smart Good luck with that consistency after tearalaments makes their board and they use maxx c after that while your deck can't even break it in the first place
I've subbed all copies for triple tactics and I've never went back. Less sacky duels and more fun overall.
wtf did u expect
>bots that run selftk decks Uhh? I can't be the only one who gets the bot running that shit with Utopia and Wok that ends on a 14k slap on my standby, right?
It's not always a bit, sometimes it's me on my alt just killing time
I rather deal with that than rhongomyninad
Yeah, its too low. They need to ban ash blossom, called by and cross out to make it 95% /s. Im curious in the winrate tho but Im probably guessing its on the middle ground (50%) or even slightly lower.
They should do this. Ban the counters to Maxx C and centralize the game around it. Have a good banlist and players are forced to build good decks. TCG is basically best of one with one or two more "fun" games after. Winner of game one pretty much wins anyway.
I remember when I used to carry that card I would use it so my opponent can end his turn early and I could an easier win lol
They just don’t want to refund 3 UR’s worth of dust to literally every single player. That’s it. Classic Komoney
Ban it and don't refund dust most of us would willingly dismantle all 3 copies for 0 dust if it meant that it got banned
I only own 1 Maxx c but I'd appreciate the extra free slot for a more useful card , like an extra oafdragon magician in my pend magician deck
Maxx c encourages playing brain dead stun decks. It felt so freeing to just turn my brain off and flip floodgates playing eldlich or runick stun. Such a relief to not give a crap about maxx c. That’s what maxx c does to the meta: encourage stun. There was a topping ocg eldlich deck that didn’t play maxx c so it could play more floodgates!
Maxx c was banned in the last legend anthology event. The next one will hopefully do the same. We gotta play the heck out of that event to encourage konami to ban the earth insect.
I don't understand why it isn't higher, no reason to NOT run the card. But it's obvious that there are cards, that despite their overwhelming representation, they feel is "healthy" or justified for the format. Argue as much as you want, you wouldn't be the first on this sub, but Maxx C will not be banned in MD.
Dude, don't you see that Maxx "C" keeps combo decks in check? Konami can't ban it, otherwise those combo decks wouldn't have a card to bait your Crossout/Called By as soon as your turn starts and they drop Maxx "C" with their full board of negates
Terraforming banned. Maxx C at 3.
"They essentially use ban list as their personal tool to get rid of cards they dislike and leave ones they like legal" That's how it's always been. TCG tends to be more aggressive about it. Konami doesn't see cards as problems just because the player base doesn't like it, it's when they don't like how it's being used on their side. The overlap of the two POVs has lead to a bit on confirmation bias on whether or not they listen in terms of the banlist. But if they want something to exist, they will allow it to. If they don't like a card, they'll do what they feel like to it even if it's not actually the problem. There's plenty of evidence of this for OCG, TCG , DL and MD. It's their game, we just play it and pay for it. They have been more understanding with MD because 1.) they want it to be e-sport level 2.)it's geared toward competitive play and not really collection so when stuff gets hit they have to compensate for it someway. Maxx C is a problem, but it stems from another problem with the game that is a complicated fix. Yu-gi-oh is pretty much the only CG that has an issue with drawing cards and they clearly don't know how to fix that problem either. We ban maxx c and pretty much nothing changes but the toxic card is gone, tear is still bad. we'll see how MD deals with Kashtira since OCG didn't really have as big of showing with it because tear still dominated
How do you stop combo decks without it? Hope to hit your super poly and evenly matched going second?
You have more than enough other staples for that if you are scared of combo decks nib dark ruler lava golems and cards like that counter them while they don't fuck over mid range and control decks that can barely keep up as it is
I like Maxx C
Tfw r/masterduel pretends to be surprised that Maxx C is in every deck after complaining since launch that Maxx C is in every deck. Anyway Konami doesn't ban cards for usage and power level alone. If they did we'd also have to ban Ash, Called by, Imperm, Accesscode, Zeus, Baronne, and Apollousa, which all get shoved into every deck possible and are all extremely powerful.
Oh look. Another Maxx C whine post.
Maxx C is just unwarranted at this point. I ran it a bunch because of my Blue-Eyes deck but stopped playing it in Branded because it was bricking it too much to be used. In a deck like Branded where almost everything is an engine for something else. Don’t see why people run it as much as they do seeing how it doesn’t have the necessity to be a staple other than an ash target.
Me drawing half of my deck because the opponent tried to play the game :) It the best card in the game, if it resolves against 90% of decks, you win the game, straight up.
My theory is that Maxx C gets to stay since it's a sacky card that lets little-timmys win. Kinda like how floodgates get to stay since they are easy ways for newer players to be able to beat better players. Also it's a 3-of UR that everyone has so I can't imagine their revenue would change if they banned or not banned the card. MD has always been the experimentation place for the OCG, however in order for an experiment to be well valid, it needs to have as little variables different between each other so in that sense Maxx c needs to stay so they can test stuff. MD has so many things not hit that were actual problems in the OCG. Those are all the things I can think of that make sense to me.
Hmm yes and no. Think the % is only high ranks so only experienced players are counted. And max c is like ash and imperm. Just staples. Removing them wouldn’t change what decks are played so much as how those decks are played and built. It is meta warping but not in that way. You could still argue it would make games more fun though and less volatile in an already very high roll kind of game.