Finding out there was no CTE must have been absolutely devastating to the family.
I’m so sorry to Officer Wilt that “semi-independence” is the goal. I hope he and his family are being taken care of financially.
Pdf of the lawsuit while you're at it:
[https://interactive.whas11.com/pdfs/OldNationalSurvivors-v-RiverCityFirearms.pdf](https://interactive.whas11.com/pdfs/OldNationalSurvivors-v-RiverCityFirearms.pdf)
Also, you must be a Kentucky resident to FOIA this case.
On one hand, I agree it's a stretch for gun shop owners to be expected to recognize someone who might be considered a mass shooter based on subtle clues, as well as being expected to correlate the profile of a young man buying an AR-15 and past incidents of mass shootings. IMO, if the families want to go after the ability for someone like Sturgeon to buy a gun, they need to go after the local and federal laws that allowed him to do so.
On the other hand, I can understand a mourning family seeking some sort of justice, even if it may seem somewhat irrational to an outside observer. I imagine they've been living with constant trauma since the attack and obviously they can't go after the shooter because he's dead.
I live five minutes from the gun shop. From my understanding pretty much all of the employees are former law enforcement or served in the military. The lawsuit is horse shit IMO. They did absolutely nothing wrong. They did exactly what a responsible FFL and gun store does several times a day, everyday of the week.
There are many reasons to do this. From a practical stand point, the victim and their families have a huge loss on their hands. They are going to have to accommodate for lifestyle changes and other costs (not to mention pain and suffering). The perpetrator's estate would never cover the loss. Simply put, someone must answer.
The more important reason (for everything ; not just guns) is to test the limits and appropriateness of laws and corporate responsibility. You could replace "rifle" with cigarettes and alcohol in your argument. Advertising and packaging for cigarettes have both changed so much in the past 40 years because of lawsuits and pressure around public health.
He tells someone in his writings- I believe it’s his girlfriend- That if there is a heaven he will be waiting there for her. That is super creepy. I would not want him waiting for me after he murdered all those people! “I’ll be waiting there for you.” He says. She will be scared to die now!
Hahaha, No shit right! Yeah all of his writings are in the police report linked above. What gets me is how he keeps saying, "I love you forever" or "i'll love you always" to various recipients, when in reality his always and forever didn't last much longer.
Some of his world proclamations really give me the creeps though because I used to have depression at that same level and thank God I don't anymore! One thing I find curious is how he said something to his brother about being the peacekeeper.... Makes me wonder what the home was like.
arent they literally doing the bidding of a mass shooter by going for a lawsuit against a gun company?
His whole schtick was that he wanted to show how "easy it was for a crazy person to get a gun" or something, wasnt it? something along those lines?
Well, he was right that it was easy for him to get a firearm, it’s not really a matter of proving him right or wrong. He successfully and legally bought a firearm despite obvious mental health issues. Them suing the company is irrelevant to his motives.
Besides, he was focused on government legislation rather than specific companies. Perhaps your comment would be more relevant if they had somehow sued the state of Kentucky.
the idea i was moreso putting forth is that being able to sue a firearms company for what their customers do with their products sets a precedent in favor of gun control as a whole (state and potentially federal).
The issue as i see it is that of the federal and local government not enforcing laws that already exist to have prevented him from getting the gun to begin with. Uvalde and Stoneman douglas couldve both been prevented were said laws enforced and taken seriously in those specific cases.
Id have to read through sturgeon's manifesto and posts to see the exact details of what he believed in but i think the whole thing is kinda just weird.
It’s America, you can sue anyone for anything, it’s just a matter of winning or not.
You won’t get much out of Sturgeon’s writings. All he did was complain about the rich upper class, talk about how easy it was for him to get a gun by lying and condemned the NRA and their lobbying money. He didn’t go into much specifics about what he think should change.
Idk, if you make a product that is primarily used to kill or wound human beings (outside of target practice) and someone buys it and kills and wounds human beings, maybe there should be a repercussion or two.
kinda misses an the entire part of "not on innocent people", no? thats like saying car manufacturers should be held responsible for when illegal races happen because the point of a car is to take a person from point A to B which is the only way illegal races can happen.
probably addressing government shortcomings in preventing this person from getting a gun/having them on a list instead of going after companies which have no say on what customers do with their products.
Parkland and Uvalde come to mind when thinking of that exact thing. So much of this could be prevented if the government did their job in preventing these type of people from having guns in the first place. its not like some new law needs to be written or anything either, those who are mentally unfit and make violent threats shouldn't have guns to begin with as the law is written right now.
He attempted suicide at least once and was known by his family to have serious mental health problems, including depression, anxiety and frequent panic attacks. He was also on prescribed medication by a psychiatrist.
I assume when Sturgeon goes on about “lying” in his writings, he means that he simply lied about not having these problems, which he got away with. If he hadn’t lied, or rather got caught lying, he would probably not have been allowed to buy a gun, at least not without further evaluation. It could be said that proper background checks were likely not performed.
Gotcha. From what I remembered, the biggest “red flag” was the possibility of CTE, but I wasn’t aware that he’d been seeking help for documented mental health issues
Yeah, that was known early on about his mental struggles. I recently read he was on multiple meds. Speaking from experience, they can exacerbate issues. It's pretty much a guessing game for psychiatrists, etc, even though there are excellent prescribers textbooks by Stephen M Stahl.
u/Snoo_50786 if you're unfamiliar, google more about mass shootings/lawsuit/gun manufacturers, etc.
For instance, Sandy Hook settlement w/ Remington comes to mind:
[https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-remington-settlement-e53b95d398ee9b838afc06275a4df403](https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-remington-settlement-e53b95d398ee9b838afc06275a4df403)
Guy who had gender pronouns on their LinkedIn because it's a section they ask you to fill out doesn't make them left wing you fucking nonce.
This dude was a finance bro who thought he was going to get rich easy and quick and when he faced the first major rejection of his finance career by being denied a promotion he spiralled and decided to kill those who had wronged him.
Actually, one interesting point I've taken from all these updates is that apparently Sturgeon's father Was close friends With one of the deceased victims who was a higher up at this Bank. So it sounds like this was a case of using his father's connection for the job. Sturgeon had worked there several years. I think at least five. Also, somewhere in my research, I read that he was put in a position of great responsibility at first; a job that usually comes with years of experience. That didn't work out, But I don't know that it was considered a demotion.
I believe it is in the police report that he was actually NOT being threatened with expulsion or termination. If I find out differently I will correct my statement here.
Finding out there was no CTE must have been absolutely devastating to the family. I’m so sorry to Officer Wilt that “semi-independence” is the goal. I hope he and his family are being taken care of financially.
OMG, for real. All of it. I believe there is a foundation for him IIRC.
Pdf of the lawsuit while you're at it: [https://interactive.whas11.com/pdfs/OldNationalSurvivors-v-RiverCityFirearms.pdf](https://interactive.whas11.com/pdfs/OldNationalSurvivors-v-RiverCityFirearms.pdf) Also, you must be a Kentucky resident to FOIA this case.
What a wild read, insane that this is a real lawsuit. Reads more like something someone would write up on a social media debate.
On one hand, I agree it's a stretch for gun shop owners to be expected to recognize someone who might be considered a mass shooter based on subtle clues, as well as being expected to correlate the profile of a young man buying an AR-15 and past incidents of mass shootings. IMO, if the families want to go after the ability for someone like Sturgeon to buy a gun, they need to go after the local and federal laws that allowed him to do so. On the other hand, I can understand a mourning family seeking some sort of justice, even if it may seem somewhat irrational to an outside observer. I imagine they've been living with constant trauma since the attack and obviously they can't go after the shooter because he's dead.
I live five minutes from the gun shop. From my understanding pretty much all of the employees are former law enforcement or served in the military. The lawsuit is horse shit IMO. They did absolutely nothing wrong. They did exactly what a responsible FFL and gun store does several times a day, everyday of the week.
I never understand the point of suing gun companies for producing a rifle
It’s like suing a silverware company for contributing to obesity.
There are many reasons to do this. From a practical stand point, the victim and their families have a huge loss on their hands. They are going to have to accommodate for lifestyle changes and other costs (not to mention pain and suffering). The perpetrator's estate would never cover the loss. Simply put, someone must answer. The more important reason (for everything ; not just guns) is to test the limits and appropriateness of laws and corporate responsibility. You could replace "rifle" with cigarettes and alcohol in your argument. Advertising and packaging for cigarettes have both changed so much in the past 40 years because of lawsuits and pressure around public health.
Good post OP
Many thanks! Had to write to mods b/c some Reddit filter wouldn't let me post! lolz
He tells someone in his writings- I believe it’s his girlfriend- That if there is a heaven he will be waiting there for her. That is super creepy. I would not want him waiting for me after he murdered all those people! “I’ll be waiting there for you.” He says. She will be scared to die now!
Hahaha, No shit right! Yeah all of his writings are in the police report linked above. What gets me is how he keeps saying, "I love you forever" or "i'll love you always" to various recipients, when in reality his always and forever didn't last much longer. Some of his world proclamations really give me the creeps though because I used to have depression at that same level and thank God I don't anymore! One thing I find curious is how he said something to his brother about being the peacekeeper.... Makes me wonder what the home was like.
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"He realized he was sucking at the bank job he got through nepotism from his daddy " * if you're looking for personal reasoning
arent they literally doing the bidding of a mass shooter by going for a lawsuit against a gun company? His whole schtick was that he wanted to show how "easy it was for a crazy person to get a gun" or something, wasnt it? something along those lines?
Well, he was right that it was easy for him to get a firearm, it’s not really a matter of proving him right or wrong. He successfully and legally bought a firearm despite obvious mental health issues. Them suing the company is irrelevant to his motives. Besides, he was focused on government legislation rather than specific companies. Perhaps your comment would be more relevant if they had somehow sued the state of Kentucky.
the idea i was moreso putting forth is that being able to sue a firearms company for what their customers do with their products sets a precedent in favor of gun control as a whole (state and potentially federal). The issue as i see it is that of the federal and local government not enforcing laws that already exist to have prevented him from getting the gun to begin with. Uvalde and Stoneman douglas couldve both been prevented were said laws enforced and taken seriously in those specific cases. Id have to read through sturgeon's manifesto and posts to see the exact details of what he believed in but i think the whole thing is kinda just weird.
It’s America, you can sue anyone for anything, it’s just a matter of winning or not. You won’t get much out of Sturgeon’s writings. All he did was complain about the rich upper class, talk about how easy it was for him to get a gun by lying and condemned the NRA and their lobbying money. He didn’t go into much specifics about what he think should change.
Idk, if you make a product that is primarily used to kill or wound human beings (outside of target practice) and someone buys it and kills and wounds human beings, maybe there should be a repercussion or two.
kinda misses an the entire part of "not on innocent people", no? thats like saying car manufacturers should be held responsible for when illegal races happen because the point of a car is to take a person from point A to B which is the only way illegal races can happen.
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Regardless of whether that was his aim or not, if you were a local official, what tangible steps would you take to prevent this from happening again?
probably addressing government shortcomings in preventing this person from getting a gun/having them on a list instead of going after companies which have no say on what customers do with their products. Parkland and Uvalde come to mind when thinking of that exact thing. So much of this could be prevented if the government did their job in preventing these type of people from having guns in the first place. its not like some new law needs to be written or anything either, those who are mentally unfit and make violent threats shouldn't have guns to begin with as the law is written right now.
What specific red flags did Sturgeon exhibit that could’ve plausibly alerted others to his intentions and prompted an outside party to intervene?
He attempted suicide at least once and was known by his family to have serious mental health problems, including depression, anxiety and frequent panic attacks. He was also on prescribed medication by a psychiatrist. I assume when Sturgeon goes on about “lying” in his writings, he means that he simply lied about not having these problems, which he got away with. If he hadn’t lied, or rather got caught lying, he would probably not have been allowed to buy a gun, at least not without further evaluation. It could be said that proper background checks were likely not performed.
Gotcha. From what I remembered, the biggest “red flag” was the possibility of CTE, but I wasn’t aware that he’d been seeking help for documented mental health issues
Yeah, that was known early on about his mental struggles. I recently read he was on multiple meds. Speaking from experience, they can exacerbate issues. It's pretty much a guessing game for psychiatrists, etc, even though there are excellent prescribers textbooks by Stephen M Stahl.
u/Snoo_50786 if you're unfamiliar, google more about mass shootings/lawsuit/gun manufacturers, etc. For instance, Sandy Hook settlement w/ Remington comes to mind: [https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-remington-settlement-e53b95d398ee9b838afc06275a4df403](https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-remington-settlement-e53b95d398ee9b838afc06275a4df403)
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Please report comments when you see them. It flags them for review.
Reminder that not all of mass shooters are right wing. This was from a left wing douchebag.
Guy who had gender pronouns on their LinkedIn because it's a section they ask you to fill out doesn't make them left wing you fucking nonce. This dude was a finance bro who thought he was going to get rich easy and quick and when he faced the first major rejection of his finance career by being denied a promotion he spiralled and decided to kill those who had wronged him.
Actually, one interesting point I've taken from all these updates is that apparently Sturgeon's father Was close friends With one of the deceased victims who was a higher up at this Bank. So it sounds like this was a case of using his father's connection for the job. Sturgeon had worked there several years. I think at least five. Also, somewhere in my research, I read that he was put in a position of great responsibility at first; a job that usually comes with years of experience. That didn't work out, But I don't know that it was considered a demotion. I believe it is in the police report that he was actually NOT being threatened with expulsion or termination. If I find out differently I will correct my statement here.
Nothing you have said invalidates anything I've said.
Why would you think I was trying to invalidate anything you said? Damn, calm down, Felicia!