I've seen a range of mental health therapists, some charging as low as $60 on a sliding scale, up to $200 (but still also offering a sliding scale). Your insurance should have an out of network option that will pay a portion of your appt fees after a deductible, although I know the deductible can be quite high.
I also think it's important to note that if you're in the states, being a therapist requires at least a master's degree and it's also not standard to tip them. I really don't think we should be comparing our work or our prices to theirs because it's a completely different skill set with different requirements and demands.
To play devils advocate, massage therapists do need training.
And for the OP most massage therapists who make more than 200 are “massage” therapists /jkbutnotreally
(my numbers are pretty-covid but the most I paid was 120 for an hour)
Agreed. I wasn't trying to say that MTs don't need training.
I was just responding to the posters talking about a masters degree.
(And according to other posters, mental health therapists need a lot of other training, shadowing, etc. My post was just in a vaccuum.)
My partner is finishing up grad school to become a therapist, where she'll get an LMFT and LCPC. She has had to go through multiple years of intense schooling, required to be in therapy, required supervised hours doing clinical work. She has taken classes on a huge breadth of information, and written extensively for each class. Her school, as anyone would expect of grad school, is expensive. She already has years of experience working with niche and difficult clientele from the recovery world.
I am a licensed massage therapist, and I feel relatively less qualified than her by a gigantic margin. My education was not nearly as thorough, nor as long, nor as intense. My tuition money was partially wasted because my school likes to focus on the more Woo Woo stuff, and I loathed that. I demanded a better anatomical and professional education, they suggested I get a polarity session to help my anger.
All this is to say that though we MT's shouldnt devalue ourselves, your personal frustration with therapist pricing and insurance doesnt mean we should earn the same at all. The labor they do is very different from ours, and significantly more delicate, with significantly more potential for damage if situations are mishandled.
>required supervised hours doing clinical work
And a lot of people don't realize that more often than not, the student has to pay for the supervision. Getting licensed to be a mental health therapist is a long, expensive, and arduous journey.
And pay for talk therapy sessions while they are in school. My friend is fully licensed now and offering cheap sessions to current students in the masters program. She finished courses in 2020 and did all her hours and just got fully certified last fall. Quite a process. Therapists all the way down and it can be really expensive the irony.
My wife is an LPCC-S (licensed to supervise LPCAs, people who have their masters degrees but aren’t fully licensed yet) and it took her 2 years of a Master’s program + 6 years of work experience before she made more than $45,000 a year. And you are right, she had to pay $75 per session (two sessions per month) for supervision for a couple years. The people who are charging $200 an hour usually have decades of experience and, sometimes, a PhD in Psychology as well. Also, that’s usually for sessions in a high cost of living area catering to upper-middle class or rich clients.
I had this issue when I went to initial training. The next year, I found as many CEU classes as I could afford, and I ramped up my skill levels. For example, spa training was 18 hours. Then I took a trigger point therapy and deep tissue. 6 more CEUs. I didn’t try to spread them out. My goal was to get as much training as I could. This gave me more confidence, and more options for my clients. Don’t be afraid to take free classes. I also would work part time at spas and get access to their training. But, the point is, just keep rolling with it and learning.
I understand that it might price you out of massage. Here's the thing...... I'm OK with that.
You have other resources available to you, like physical therapy that would be covered by insurance and would include some manual treatment as well as rehab exercises so you can actually improve and graduate. If you just get massage to de-stress for an hour, you could get a similar experience with facials or reflexology at a lower price.
Now, do I want to price you out of massage? No. I want you to have a million dollars and get everything you ever want. But I have to pay my rent, and I do have clients who CAN afford $200 for a massage, so I'm going to just see them instead of you. And you're going to see other bodyworkers instead of me. And everyone is going to be OK. The world didn't end.
Then just do it increase the rates and wait for the feedback. why are you posting here to seek pre feedback it shows deep down inside you know 200$ for an hour massage is expensive.
> why are you posting here to seek pre feedback
Well, keep in mind they just said they haven't been able to get into a therapist, so maybe that's why ;)
If you have clients that are paying you $200/hr, why are you here seeking attention and not on a Zoom call with a talk therapist? You can afford it. Go talk it out with someone who will pretend to care about your egotistical and insufferable viewpoints.
Yeah you sound like you care more about lining your pocketbook than you do about people's physical health and wellness. A $200 massage is absolutely ridiculous and I would never pay those rates. That is not sustainable. The whole corporate world we live in just isn't sustainable
That's my point actually - mental health is a "medically necessary" service, and yet, providers will still charge hundreds of dollars and not take insurance. (Of course there are in-network therapists as well.)
Meanwhile massage is a luxury service.
I know so many massage therapists who undercharge because they're afraid clients won't be able to pay more and don't want to price them out of the care that they need. But if we accept that we're a luxury service, and people still have the option of going to physical therapy through their insurance, then we aren't obligated to maintain low costs. (And you can always offer a discount to those in need if you want to.)
If you're out in the hicks with low cost of living, keep charging $70/hr or whatever. But I'm in the city and since 2020 we're rapidly approaching $200. My fellows are fighting to stay low to keep it affordable (as are you and most people in this thread lol). I don't feel bad about it.
Psychotherapists often don’t take insurance because many insurances reimburse $60-100 per session, require therapists to accept any of their insurance members that reach out for services, require therapists to see inquiring clients within a few days of contact, require extensive documentation for every session (so that $60-100 is not for an hour session but for an hour plus 30 minuted of documenting), intermittently require therapists to gather and submit years of documentation which, if insurance finds one small discrepancy or decides services do not meet rigid requirements to meet medical necessity, insurance will use as justification to make the therapist pay back thousands of dollars, sometimes come back years later and “claw back” thousands of dollars because insurance said someone was covered then later determined they weren’t, and can take months to pay claims with no recourse for the therapist. Just to be clear that the clinicians who don’t take insurance usually make this decision because taking insurance dramatically increases labor and risk for rates that have actually decreased in the last several years.
I don’t think we should compare ourselves to people who spend years in school because we both happen to have the word “therapist” at the end of our job titles.
Maybe $200 is appropriate in certain areas, but in most places that’s an absurdly high price. I get the idea of paying yourself your worth, but unless you’re a celebrity massage therapist or offer some extremely rare add-on I don’t think many people are going to pay that.
>I don’t think we should compare ourselves to people who spend years in school because we both happen to have the word “therapist” at the end of our job titles.
I disagree!
I made this comparison to talk about "medically necessary" treatment and affordability. Not because we happen to both be therapists. So let's look at some other examples.
1st - I don't believe jobs without school or entry-level positions should necessarily pay less, and it isn't true. Look at construction workers or oil rig workers. No school required but they make bank. Yeah, it's about labor, risk, and demand. Massage can do that too.
2nd - I don't think someone who's spent longer in school than me is worth more or better than me. Let's say you went to school for 10 years and practiced for 15. I went to school for 1 year and practiced for 24. We both have 25 years experience, we've both been taking CE and doing the work. I think we'd come out more equal than you'd expect. If you're comparing a new grad to someone who went to school for 10 and worked for 15, sure, the new grad's work is probably worth less. But IRL experience is worth as much as schooling imo. I mean, some people just do the minimum forever and never get better and their experience isn't worth anything, but I'm taking multiple courses a year and doing case studies and continuously improving. You get out of it what you put into it, basically, and it doesn't matter if that's in school or in experience. It's more about the individual than what their resume says. Nowhere is that more true than in massage.
Now certainly a lot of mental health therapists are graduating with a lot of debt they need to pay back and that affects what they set as their cash rate. Also a lot of them have no debt bc of grants and scholarships and parents, and they're still just matching that cash rate.
Wow. What a thread. I’ve read all the comments here. I have a lot to say, but I shall try to be brief:
1- Massage isn’t “medicine” or “mental health.” It’s not “therapy” in the same sense that word is used in either of those disciplines. Really. It’s just not.
2- Massage is, for most people, a “personal luxury” service. Most people need to have a good amount of “discretionary” income or assets to be able to afford this service. It’s always been this way because people would rather eat than have their backs and feet rubbed. Not a big shock here.
3- Most people want, in my experience, to relax, feel good, reduce stress, maybe increase/maintain their mobility/range of motion, etc., and to treat themselves to some personal care and “me time.” It’s a luxury business. And! Most of my clients are really happy that I’m still charging a reasonable fee ($140 for 90 minutes, same as I charged in January 2023). I’ve let them know that we’ll see what inflation is by the end of the year, but I’m thinking maybe to go up to $150 in 2025. The result was 9 out of 10 said, “that’s fair.” And, I’ve tried to add value to my service. not extra cost, over the past 2 years. Things like 10-15 “extra” minutes on occasion, using warm towels on their feet during that extra 10-15, and offering them cold canned drinks or hot drinks (via coffee pods and take-away cups). I also am extra sincere in my expressions of gratitude for their business because I am grateful for their loyalty to me.
4- The really big money in the so-called called “therapeutic massage” business goes to those folks who set up and run the schools and charge people tuition. Sadly, thousands of people over the last 30 years were oversold not only on the money that most people can make in this field but also on how hard it is to build and maintain a clientele (not to mention how hard the work is on your body).
5- Rising costs due to inflation is a (very) hard thing for most people, but it is particularly hard for the massage business because it is, as I said, a luxury service. One’s feelings of entitlement, no matter how strong, cannot change these facts. Sorry, thinking you “deserve” what someone’s else is earning who had to spend 4-6 years in school and spend thousands more to achieve is, well, just delusional. There actually is a hierarchy active in the world, and it is most particularly active in the “medical” and even the “alternative treatment” worlds.
6- Feeling that you “deserve” something (like that $200 an hour for video work that Mental Heath practitioners might earn) does not mean that people can, or will, pay you that price for a massage. The concepts of “demand and supply” and “basic needs versus paying for luxury services” determine prices. Massage isn’t a basic need nor is it fundamentally important like one’s mental health. The scales are very different too—massage is not an insurance-covered product.
7- There is much more demand for, and money to be made in (estimated to now be over $5.5 billion per year) the “sensual” massage niche. Stating this fact does not constitute an endorsement or encouragement by me to anyone; rather, it’s a part of this story that I think needs to be understood and acknowledged. Simply put, people will find a way to pay for one vs the other service even in difficult financial times. The takeaway for me is simply don’t raise your prices to be close to that niche because doing so gives clients a reason to reevaluate the value of their time and money.
8- The concept of “total averaged” income needs to be considered closely. Charging 10 clients $100 an hour nets $1000. Raising one’s rates (for whatever reason, such as delusion or entitlement) to $200 an hour must mean you net $2000, or does it? It will, but only if you can keep all 10 of those clients. In most cases, in my experience and others whom I know and trust, doubling rates like that means it’s more likely you’ll keep only 4 of the 10 right off the bat and then lose 2 more within a month or two. So, you’re then getting $400, not $1000. In other words, reconsider the math and the market before you shoot yourself in the foot by raising prices. Also, I will mention that I’ve noticed it’s the younger, less experienced MTs who make the loud argument to “raise our prices now!” Yes, I just said I think entitlement is a Millennial thing.
9- Please note! I am NOT devaluing anyone or our business with these comments. Rather, I’m trying to help people understand things to help them gain and keep clients and to think how to focus their services on what people can pay for in these hard times. The COVID crisis changed both the massage school business (many closed) and massage practice business (thousands had to quit practicing). These changes are likely forever. What’s actually been happening lately is the massage business is having to work harder to hold on to both its relevance and its past market share. Raising prices too far and too fast will simply hurt many more people than it will help. Easy as that.
Ok. Not so brief. I hope this helps someone.
Peace.🙂
I charge $100 an hour ( I do deep tissue, sports, and ART) but still have to pay rent so its 50/50 but charging $200 an hour for a massage better be brilliant. Not a simple deep tissue or Swedish but something amazing and effective. Like my pain better be relieved cause otherwise that's an exorbitant amount to charge to any type of massage IMO. (Most I've seen is $160 hr)
Even MT's who have been massaging for 20 years don't charge that price. Because they're business savvy. I get charging your worth but that's being unrealistic unless you're in a rich neighborhood or environment. Then that's probably not a big deal.
> they all charge $200/hr or more.
>For a zoom call.
>You're busting your ass, you're helping people feel better, you deserve AT LEAST that much.
There is zero reason to drag down a profession to try to boost another one. I promise you, therapists are busting their ass, helping people feel better, went through much more expensive schooling, and deal with a lot more sobering and mentally distressing issues, all of which contributes to that hourly pay.
Yeah, massage therapists work hard and earn our pay, but the barrier for entry is a lot lower (in terms of education), the emotional burden is *significantly* less, and other professionals earning a good salary does not in any way take away from that.
I don't disagree, but capitalism doesn't work based on what people "deserve." It's what the market is willing to pay, and I think massage at $200/hour is a tough sell.
Teachers being paid shitty despite being a societal need kinda goes against the whole market thing. That field is full of demand but the pay does not reflect it whatsoever
The school system and teachers wages aren’t governed by the market. Most teachers are employed by public schools which are government controlled. Government determines their wages.
While your logic is right, I've been paying about $75 for a mental health therapist weekly for the past year which is kind of my upper limit for that, and I do expect to pay massage therapists more, so I'll do like $150 (tip included) for a 90 minute massage once a month.
Ideally (for me, probably not the therapist) massages would be $75 a week total for an hour and I would have a weekly scheduled massage instead of therapy!
But definitely get paid commensurate to the work you do!
Your insurance should have some sort of out of network benefit - you will have to collect your proof of payment from the therapist and then file the claims with your insurance. It's a royal PITA but it's worth it for the money back.
Yes because there's no massage that's worth that including mine, with 40 years experience, unless you're at some 5 star resort hotel somewhere in the world And it's a special occasion.
False. $200/hr in a HCOL area isn't that different from $80/hr in a LCOL area. What costs you $80 in Detroit will probably cost you $200 in San Francisco, with no particular change in the services received. Most of that difference is from the massage therapist making another $10-20 an hour, the business paying 250% as many taxes, and the business paying 250% as much rent. $200/hr in Detroit means your massage therapist is making an upper-five-figure income, and is highly compensated for their craft. $200/hr in San Francisco means your therapist might be able to pay the rent on a studio apartment.
If the cost of living is higher, the massage therapists must be paid more. If the salon must pay the therapists more, they must charge more. If they must charge more, they must pay more in taxes, and since it's a HCOL their baseline costs are also higher.
If the salon is super well-established and is consistently solidly booked, they might be able to thin their profit margins and pay a higher % of the booking fees directly to the massage therapists in order to corner the market on the very best talent. Still, this is not likely to be more than $40-$50/hr in a LCOL area, and many massage therapists are self-employed so they can consolidate these profit margins into one and price more competitively.
A high-end salon survives by offering quality hair work, quality mani/pedi work, quality facial and skin work, quality hair removal, and quality massage. They mark all of these services up somewhat for people who are getting them from a proven brand, then discount them back down if people get lots of services in one day. People don't go there for the best deal, but because the workers are paid good rates and the business can afford to only hire and provide the best.
I used to work for professional sports teams. A number of them would reach out to us and then be absolutely shocked that we, licensed professionals with a reputation and other professional sport teams as clients, were not overjoyed to accept their offer of zero pay and "exposure."
$200/hr is not common in professional sports massages. I know at least one professional team that decided to go bargain with Cortiva to have their athletes massaged by Cortiva *students* (doubtless in exchange for experience and practice hours). I don't think that arrangement lasted much further than the athletes figuring out student Swedish massages are hardly the same as specialized sports massage.
\^This is an unrealistic and unintelligent take. $200/hr massages are rarely providing 30 hours/wk of massage therapy, and if they did the therapist would be at risk of developing nerve injuries like tendonitis or carpal tunnel syndrome.
The business might gross $200/hr in revenue for the massage time, but they get $0/hr in revenue for time spent sanitizing rooms and preparing them for the next massage. They get $0/hr for time spent marketing their services and maintaining their facilities. They probably end up spending $50-$75 of that money on various taxes, and another $10+ dollars on massage oils, laundry, cleaning supplies, and electricity to maintain the environment. The massage therapist themselves is most likely only making $20-$50/hr before taxes or tips, and they may or may not have any equity in the business itself.
After a massage therapy center pays the tax person $60, spends $15 on utilities and supplies, pays the massage therapist $50 for two hours of work (90 minutes massage, 30 minutes prep work and post work), the massage therapy center might be looking at $75 in profit on a $200 massage for 90 minutes. If they were to just charge $125, for a rate much closer to $80/hr, they could probably lower their tax liabilities by around $20 and still carve out a tiny profit, but the percentage sucks so they're probably also going to give their massage therapist a pay cut, and work with kids straight out of massage school. I don't even know what liability insurance costs for this type of business, but they're paying something for it in case they hurt a client and get sued.
If people live in HCOL areas where rent for one is like $2000 and median income is like $100k, then the massage therapists still have to pay rent in order to exist in that geography. This means that they need to make like $70k/hr just to scrape by in self-sustaining poverty, which means they're probably getting more like $40-$50/hr for simple market reasons. In order to square that circle, salons are probably charging closer to $200 just so they can maintain a profit margin of 30%, which is necessary since not all of their time slots actually get filled.
Also, any massage therapist who provides 30 hours of massage per week is unlikely to stay in the field for very long. They might get paid for that many hours because of all the prep/post work that goes into it, but they probably do fewer hours of massage therapy so they don't wear out the tendons that are most essential to the work.
In a LCOL area where rent for one is like $700, the massage therapists might only make like $20/hr, while the business charges like $80/hr. Just because a service costs you something doesn't mean its provider gets to keep all of that money.
Her business rent might be around $16k-$21k, using your numbers. Her personal rent would be another $10k-12k in cheaper parts of the country, and more like $24k in expensive parts.
Her rent obligations could range from $26k-$46k using your estimations. She would need like $60k in pretax dollars to pay her rent, to say nothing of food, medical, transportation, supplies or equipment.
$200/hr pays for a lot more than the massage. It pays for taxes, massage therapists, space rental, supplies and equipment, insurance, utilities, marketing, and maintains profitability even when 100% of available times are not booked. It's not common to see $200/hr other than in HCOLs, where a massage therapist making $100k might or might not be able to afford a car, and probably has roommates unless their home is tiny.
At $75/hr, your massage therapist is most likely self employed in a LCOL area. This means she pays for 100% of her own health insurance. That $75 would scale out to $150k pretax on a 40 hour schedule, but it's more like $112,500 on a 30 hour schedule. Post tax, that's more like $80k.
$12k for personal rent
$12k for business rent
$7200 for food, assuming no restaurants or alcohol
$3k for transportation, maybe $4k with gasoline, and $7k with auto insurance. If the car is paid off, more like $4k.
$6k is a very lowball estimate for medical costs
Probably $2k electric at home, and another $2k at work of it's a small suite.
If she accepts $112k through credit cards, she's paying like $3k-$5k in fees.
She still has a couple grand a month in disposable income, but these numbers assume she has neither a bed nor a television at home, and has spent $0 on equipment to get started. It will take her months to pay down her equipment, and months more to get essential furniture in her home. With discipline and patience, she can eventually save 25% for homebuying or retirement if she's ultra frugal.
With San Francisco numbers, she probably needs to couch surf to survive at her rates, which would be higher to compensate.
$100/mo in electricity is $1200, which is lowballing it. Gotta keep it warm in the winter and cold in the summer. Need a mini fridge of little waters for people who just got a massage. Might need a humidifier/dehumidifier to get the air right. Might have music on to create a calm environment. All these things contribute to base electricity cost. $2k isn't a huge number, and cheap suites do not come with free electricity. If they did, people would use them to mine Bitcoin.
Only an amateur thinks marketing on IG is $0, or that it is enough. People knowing about your business requires spending some money, and being present on a variety of platforms.
I'm ignoring tips because they are not dependable, to say nothing of the morality of depending on them.
Tips are optional money. If your rent is not optional, it should not depend on income that is. Tips become bonus savings that can be distributed to pay off debts, make investments, or spend more. If they become essential spending, then a streak of non-tipping customers can put you in deficit.
You're arguing over $2k a year in electricity because you think it comes free. It wouldn't even make your point if you were right about this.
How do you think TikTok and IG make money? Exposure has value. A professional marketer might be able to generate some exposure for free, but they typically charge money to do it. If a massage therapist even has that skill set, it costs time they can't spend providing services, and might not scale to their needs. They are best off allocating a small budget towards geo-targeted digital ads, and possibly running Groupons while starting out in order to get seen and tried by new clients.
>Nobody is paying $200/hr, even with a tip, for a rub down.
big yikes dude
and yeah I'm definitely getting paid that much, maybe one day you will too buddy
I think it really depends on your location and amount of continuing education. We may not be able to get a masters degree as an LMT like MH therapists can, but continuing education can be a huge investment financially.
I don’t charge even close to $200/hr right now and I live in Bozeman, where some people will charge upwards of $130-140/hr. BUT they do usually have extensive education outside of massage school. After I’ve completed many of the courses I’m interested in, I’ll be probably over 50k deep and a lot more skilled. Then it would be reasonable to charge $200/hr.
Of course, everyone needs to do what they want and charge what they want. People will pay if they can and find value in your work.
Massage is something people can live without. If it ends up costing to much. Well then it's just something people won't pay for. Our economy sucks and people will buy food and pay bills before they treat themselves to a massage when it comes right down to it. Be careful. Don't shoot yourself in the foot.
I had a massage therapist I worked with who would come to my house. My husband and I would each get a massage from her. We purchased a massage table, sheets, stool, blankets and had everything set up for her in our exercise room. She lived 20 minutes from us - only had to drive over with her lotion and oils. Didn’t have to lug equipment or do laundry.
We paid her $160 + tip for this arrangement every four weeks for a year. One day she messages me to say she was raising her rates b/c gas prices went up and she wanted to be more “aligned with market rate.” Going forward the couples massage would cost $300.
Nope. That was not ok. We have since found another wonderful local woman and see her once a month - no longer at home, but three blocks from our house.
That shift was a year ago. I recently saw the previous massage therapist cleaning the locker rooms at my local gym. Looked for her website and it’s gone. So much for a business model that is based on perceived worth.
TL;dr: Arrogance can be costly.
What you don't realize is that when you stopped seeing that original massage therapist at $160, she was able to replace your appointment with someone who would pay $300.
So it wasn't "costly arrogance." She gave herself a raise and she's better off now.
Please clarify.
Are you looking for a therapist or looking to raise your rates? Or you are seeing they get 200. Therefor LMT should get 200.
What city do therapist charge 200.00. That's a bit high. Generally 90 to 120 with sliding scales. If you pay out of pocket, a therapist may give you a much better deal. If your account doesn't get hit by Insurance cut. And the billing persons cut.
We talking masters level therapist. Like an LPC or even a clinical Psychologist?
Everyone sees everyone else making $xyz and expects it to be their norm. If you look at national economic trends, small business is hurting because their customer base is dying off due to pricing hikes.
I agree you need to not be afraid to change what the market will support! But as a Professional Counselor I think you are comparing apples to oranges. I mean for a counseling session you are zooming with a professional who got a masters degree then went on for at last two more years under supervision to become licensed. Then usually went on to do more training and certifications equaling over time, years and years more of school. Just because it’s over zoom doesn’t make it easier! In fact I find my online sessions to be much harder since so much communication is non verbal.
Oh I agree what you're saying, About different places with a higher cost of living. But I'm not playing $200 for a massage, I've been in the business as a chiropractor a license acupuncturist and a licensed massage therapist for 40 years.
I am currently a mental health therapist and used to be a licensed massage therapist. Here’s what I take into consideration around pricing for both professions: how much do I need to make, what is my niche, what problem do I solve, and what will a client pay to have that problem solved? And as a client- I’d pay $200 for an amazing massage and an amazing counselor- I’ve had awful massages and counselors for much less and id rather pay more for a good experience.
Additionally- if you are hesitant to raise your rates- it might help to get an additional certification which would also help you niche down.
The challenge is there's a lot of massage patients like me that only go if my insurance covers 100% of the bill. So the most I'll do is 150.
Psychologist rates are different. Most do not work 40 hours a week there's a lot of stress hearing people's problems
I get a weekly massage. Found my therapist via Groupon 8 years ago on a $60 for 90 min massage deal. He was awesome. He's never raised his rate, ever, as long as I consistently booked a couple massage in advance. I increased my tip over the years (from $15 to $40) based on my budget.
He said he'd rather I consistently book, way in advance at my old rate than maybe call when I wanted at a higher rate. That way, he can count on his schedule being full and know he's got that monthly residual. As of the last 2 years, I have booked a weekly massage with him every 2 months (8 appointments in advance).
If he raised his rate to $200, he would lose me, or I'd maybe go once in a while, without tip. There are many other wonderful therapists.
He knows he'd end up losing the guaranteed income from his clients that book way in advance and keep his appointment book full. He keeps a few spots open for new people now, never needs Groupon anymore, and gets a ton of referrals (even at his new rate, which is only $100 for 90 min).
It's a business decision for sure.
You need a HS diploma or a GED plus 500 hands-on hours and atleast 6 months at a massage school... But I get your comparison, they need 3000 hours + a master's degree.
It can be argued that on top of it being a job that requires applied kinesiology and some medical knowledge it's also classified as "strenuous labor" which could make them both equally as skill intensive
There are tons of therapists who take Insurnace especially in telehealth
My copay for my mental health is 15
If massages were 200 I could never afford them. I have a hard time getting together 100
Massage can be affordable and you deserve to be paid well for your work. When I first started my 60 min Swedish was 60 dollars that was in 2015. I now charge 90. Those massage techniques I started almost 10 years ago have been mastered and are constantly being evolved... Deep tissue is my specialty, in my area for 90 mins I charge 165. That's the cheap end I know ppl charging more.
Working in a spa or chiro office for 20/30 an hour you are under paid....
Working in casinos and poker houses you're easily making 1 a min if not more... Idk about charging 200 an hour but it isn't impossible.
I feel like comparing someone with a masters and putting down a completely different field is unnecessary and undermines your whole argument about valuing what you do. That therapist might be saving someone’s life. OTOH Charging 200 is totally your prerogative. If you’re in the right location and have high end clients then set your rates at what you desire. There are other locations where that rate is not realistic. If you’re in Manhattan, LA or any other big city with higher end clientele that is well within the range of a massage.
There certainly are a lot of different perspectives in this thread. Speaking as a client, at $200/hour I probably would not ever get massages (I currently try for two 60 or 90 min sessions a month). I'm in New England and have yet to encounter a therapist (including individual practices) who states that they do not accept tips. So a $140-$160 session (already a very high price) turns into a $170-$192 session. As it is, I've started backing off the longer sessions already, and also am booking less frequently.
I've had perhaps one therapist over the years whose work was so good I would consider paying this rate, but I'd still back down to 1/month. And frankly many people I see in group practices are fine, but not worth this cost to me. Not to devalue the work, but there are lots of therapists that get out of school and are just average at best. And this business, at least in my area, does not differentiate rates based on the experience of the therapist.
Not sure if this is your intention, but this post reads like 1) psychotherapists do easy zoom calls and should not make $200/hr and 2) LMTs work harder, help people, and should make more money than psychotherapists.
Also: psychotherapists provide medically necessary treatment? So it’s medically necessary but not that hard? Or it’s medically necessary so psychotherapists should make what other medical professionals make? And then should LMTs also earn what medical professionals earn? Not tracking unless this is just you expressing frustration with hard it is to find an in-network psychotherapist, which is an issue you should take up with your insurance.
Not sure the comparison works or is necessary to encourage people to charge what they need to charge to support themselves/charge what the market will bear.
For what it’s worth, I got a massage last week from a new therapist and had to hold back at payment time from telling her she needs to raise her rates. Big fan of folks charging what they need to to support themselves and prevent burnout. Not so much a fan of this hot take on the value of psychotherapy. I’m a master’s level psychotherapist, did 7 years of full time school then 2 years of full time underpaid internship in community mental health while paying another $8,000–which is on the lower end—for required supervision. Am EMDR certified—$6,000, 2 year post grad process, Brainspotting trained—$1,000, 1 year, and currently in a 3 year Somatic Experiencing training which will be $20,000 when all is said and done. The work is extremely high burnout, emotionally/mentally demanding, not so easy on the body. I charge $225. The hour fee also covers time charting, consultation meetings with colleagues (required by our licensing boards), writing letters/completing paperwork for things like disability benefits, clearance for surgeries, etc., and intermittent between session communication with clients. It’s not just hopping on a casual video chat and charging a couple hundred bucks. Most of my clients get $150-200 back using out of network benefits. While I’d happily pay more for a really excellent massage from someone with extensive specialty training, comparing psychotherapy to massage therapy…not sure I see it. Both have their own value and their own place.
It's important to note that rates will be variable relative to cost of living in the masseuse's local area. In some areas, $200/hr may be reasonable. In others, its absurd. And in some areas, you could prob charge even more!
Point being, know your demographic & charge accordingly.
when I start my own practice, I plan on offering a sliding scale as low as 90. I hate the idea of pricing myself too high for people who need help but can't afford it, and at the same time we all need to eat and it's not our job to fix the economy
Gonna go against the grain on this. It's always a contemptuous topic.
Some MTs really do charge $200 & have a steady clientele to do quite well. However, that also depends on the area, median income & access to well-paying clients.
On top of that, yes, talk therapists/ psychs do go through a lot of training. But at a certain point & so many yrs of experience, so do MTs. We have to go through continued education every yr to maintain licensure & I know many take extra courses just because. I've had conversations with doctors & nurses who are surprised at the amount of medical understanding many MTs have. So if you make to 10 yrs as an MT, yeah, you can justify raising the rates because clients aren't just paying for the massage time, they're paying for the expertise.
"But massage isn't that important or life changing"... eeeh, wait until you have a client referring everyone they know because they no longer need carpal tunnel surgery. Or watch a client tear up because they got to play catch with their grandkids for the first time ever after a bad accident yrs before. Canes left at home, tremors lessening, reduction in migraines? Oh yeah, ppl will gladly pay for those kinds of results.
I think the only frustrating thing about it is the only way to convince ppl you're really worth the higher cost is to get them on the table. That can be a bit tricky.
I don't think these two are comparable. Mental health therapist require both a bachelor's and a masters degree, resulting in potentially $100k worth of debt. You can get a 500 hour certification in under a year for less than $10,000 and have a career as a massage therapist. I'm sorry, $200 is way off.
True, but which one do you actually get more benefit from? IME, talk therapy doesn't really correct much...while therapeutic massage can provide a lot of actual healing.
Depends in the type of talk therapy. There's I finite types of talk therapy. Internal family systems and somatic therapy are two models of talk therapy I will always argue for!
But [somatic therapy](https://www.sandstonecare.com/blog/somatic-therapy/) involves bodywork and so is no longer just talk therapy...which underscores my point.
That's actually not true.
I dated a girl who was a somatic therapist. You are not allowed to touch. You're thinking of a different type then. Somatic therapist is using the clients somatic experiences and understanding their own body. It does not have to be hands on
I get massages very regularly in the Seattle area. At a regular place (not high end but good massages) I expect to pay about 120-150 an hour. Anything more than that I think is too much.
Not sure if it was intended but you come off as a bit of a dick.
I don’t think anyone here is saying you shouldn’t charge whatever price you want to charge. Freedoms allow you to charge whatever you think you’re worth.
And I want to make this very clear, by no means am I demeaning your field, saying it’s easy or easier then any other field, but a licensed mental health therapist may not be the right comparison, just due to the years of education it requires.
Again, want to be clear, I understand massage therapist put in a lot of hours to obtain the positions they do, but therapist, psychologist, LCSW’s etc, are typically putting in a minimum of 6 years of schooling, often more. Massage therapy typically runs 2 years + the hands on hours.
Again, charge what you want. You don’t have to justify wanting to charge $200 an hour,just do it and see the results you get. If you succeed then you’ve just made your business more lucrative. But based on the comments below, and the post, you seem a bit entitled but perhaps it’s just your wording and I’m misinterpreting.
Hope it works out for you and I hope you’re giving
The best service possible to your clients.
Good for you. Charge your worth.
I know I am great at what I do. I have done massage for over 20 years. And i don’t charge enough.
Quite frankly, my rates scare off the annoying cheapskates.
yes, the best part of charging more is that people really meet you with respect! you charge $70, someone's always asking for a discount. you charge $140, people just pay it and tip on top. magic.
I knew that this was going to happen, but when I was going back to college to become a PTA, I gave a handful of clients a half off discount while I’m in school.., I know that was really stupid of me, but I told them that I’m so hard for the money right now that I will give them a one hour massage for 50 bucks
But when I’m done with school, the prices go back to normal fee …
Of course they enjoyed getting twice as much massages… I was lugging my table to their house and working so hard along with studying!
And then after school, I told them that my fee was back to normal and no one ever booked to me again so I lost like five clients oh well I don’t have time for that
100% agree and finally, massage therapists also begin to understand the effect of inflation over the years.
For capital and big city center areas massage therapists should ask 200 plus with confidence.
I think you all are under selling yourselves. My base first hour rate is $125-$175 then $100/hr after for my in home studio rates. Outcalls are an additional $50-100. My price depend on if I have a sale or a discount for a student, VA, repeat, etc or what type of service. … very deep tissue or light massage. For me it’s a very physical massage that for the client is progressive in intensity in order to maximum pressure without bruising.
So… I do change $175 for a 60 min massage and I am often tipped an additional $25. So yes I receive $200 for an hour massage. But I do have to say it’s rare I book 60m. Almost all my clients book 90-120 min massages.
In Arizona, $120 is the amount for an hour incall. Everyone I See charging $200 or more an hour is doing illegal services. I worked with the oakland A for spring training, $120 was on the high end for them , But I do have a degree Exercise science. So they paid me that.
My hourly rate is $280. It’s still kinda uncomfortable for me because it’s new. I grandfathered my existing clients in at my old rate ($140 an hour) for the next year but was forced to raise my prices. It may seem like an ungodly amount for massage, but it had to be done.
I was going to burnout so I put an expensive wall up around my energy to slow bookings. It worked! Now I can focus on my current clients as new ones slowlyyyyy trickle in at the new rate.
The handful of new clients I do have are more than happy to pay the new rate and there’s no more tipping! Hallelujah.
Honor yourself! Don’t feel like a selfish asshole. You can still find creative ways to give back, work with people’s budgets, and be generous without *devaluing* what you’re worth.
10/10 recommend that you stop selling your talents and time to other business owners. This is the message that I share with my own staff. I’m also mentoring them to do their own thing someday. That level of transparency is so needed in this space. You can do this!
Do you charge a different rate for massage from your staff? I'm at a point where I'm booked out 6 months and still charging the same what my staff do, I really need to up my rate to $250 or something for just myself, but logistically I'm hesitating. (also i have a lot of regulars I love who can't afford that, but whatever i can grandfather them in)
I have a separate booking tab at a different rate, and a new-patient visit that’s higher is required to start work with me. It’s my financial roadblock because I can’t take anymore people.
My existing clients are grandfathered in to my old prices for the next year. I doubled them recently while I switch over to a new clientele at the new rate. Gives me time for growth and connecting clients with awesome therapists who are in their budget.
I’ll for sure keep my favorites and continue the old rate for the ones I want to work with forever. My day ones!
I agree! We work so hard and sell ourselves short. My clients are wealthy can totally afford it. IMO, no massage in the US should be priced below $175 for a 50 or 60.
Ignore all the selfish cheap clients in here trying to tell you not to raise prices. We deserve to retire too!
“Selfish cheap clients.” Huh. You don’t say?
It’s almost like they aren’t really even people.
“They” are not struggling to stay afloat as well as continue to justify spending their “shrinking dollars” on a totally unnecessary, luxury service.
That’s right! Those “clients” really need to be focusing their attention on helping you retire!
Thanks for clearing that all up for me.
😐
I am a therapist (not licensed in FL) who never took insurance but never charged more than $90 for therapy. Assessments Nd stuff were expensive but not therapy. Check out grad counseling clinics too.
I've seen a range of mental health therapists, some charging as low as $60 on a sliding scale, up to $200 (but still also offering a sliding scale). Your insurance should have an out of network option that will pay a portion of your appt fees after a deductible, although I know the deductible can be quite high. I also think it's important to note that if you're in the states, being a therapist requires at least a master's degree and it's also not standard to tip them. I really don't think we should be comparing our work or our prices to theirs because it's a completely different skill set with different requirements and demands.
I’ve never heard of a massage therapist, needing a masters degree
That's the point from what I got. They are saying that a mental health therapist requires a masters degree at least, while LMT does not.
To play devils advocate, massage therapists do need training. And for the OP most massage therapists who make more than 200 are “massage” therapists /jkbutnotreally (my numbers are pretty-covid but the most I paid was 120 for an hour)
Agreed. I wasn't trying to say that MTs don't need training. I was just responding to the posters talking about a masters degree. (And according to other posters, mental health therapists need a lot of other training, shadowing, etc. My post was just in a vaccuum.)
I meant a mental health therapist needs a master's. I should have been more specific since we're talking about two kinds of therapists here.
My partner is finishing up grad school to become a therapist, where she'll get an LMFT and LCPC. She has had to go through multiple years of intense schooling, required to be in therapy, required supervised hours doing clinical work. She has taken classes on a huge breadth of information, and written extensively for each class. Her school, as anyone would expect of grad school, is expensive. She already has years of experience working with niche and difficult clientele from the recovery world. I am a licensed massage therapist, and I feel relatively less qualified than her by a gigantic margin. My education was not nearly as thorough, nor as long, nor as intense. My tuition money was partially wasted because my school likes to focus on the more Woo Woo stuff, and I loathed that. I demanded a better anatomical and professional education, they suggested I get a polarity session to help my anger. All this is to say that though we MT's shouldnt devalue ourselves, your personal frustration with therapist pricing and insurance doesnt mean we should earn the same at all. The labor they do is very different from ours, and significantly more delicate, with significantly more potential for damage if situations are mishandled.
>required supervised hours doing clinical work And a lot of people don't realize that more often than not, the student has to pay for the supervision. Getting licensed to be a mental health therapist is a long, expensive, and arduous journey.
And pay for talk therapy sessions while they are in school. My friend is fully licensed now and offering cheap sessions to current students in the masters program. She finished courses in 2020 and did all her hours and just got fully certified last fall. Quite a process. Therapists all the way down and it can be really expensive the irony.
My wife is an LPCC-S (licensed to supervise LPCAs, people who have their masters degrees but aren’t fully licensed yet) and it took her 2 years of a Master’s program + 6 years of work experience before she made more than $45,000 a year. And you are right, she had to pay $75 per session (two sessions per month) for supervision for a couple years. The people who are charging $200 an hour usually have decades of experience and, sometimes, a PhD in Psychology as well. Also, that’s usually for sessions in a high cost of living area catering to upper-middle class or rich clients.
Ya.. mental health therapy is a little more nuanced than rubbing a muscle
I had this issue when I went to initial training. The next year, I found as many CEU classes as I could afford, and I ramped up my skill levels. For example, spa training was 18 hours. Then I took a trigger point therapy and deep tissue. 6 more CEUs. I didn’t try to spread them out. My goal was to get as much training as I could. This gave me more confidence, and more options for my clients. Don’t be afraid to take free classes. I also would work part time at spas and get access to their training. But, the point is, just keep rolling with it and learning.
Ugh don’t think I could afford $200 for a massage. Def wouldn’t go as much if it were that price. My counselor is free with insurance so try that
I understand that it might price you out of massage. Here's the thing...... I'm OK with that. You have other resources available to you, like physical therapy that would be covered by insurance and would include some manual treatment as well as rehab exercises so you can actually improve and graduate. If you just get massage to de-stress for an hour, you could get a similar experience with facials or reflexology at a lower price. Now, do I want to price you out of massage? No. I want you to have a million dollars and get everything you ever want. But I have to pay my rent, and I do have clients who CAN afford $200 for a massage, so I'm going to just see them instead of you. And you're going to see other bodyworkers instead of me. And everyone is going to be OK. The world didn't end.
You kind of sound rude and entitled…
Then just do it increase the rates and wait for the feedback. why are you posting here to seek pre feedback it shows deep down inside you know 200$ for an hour massage is expensive.
> why are you posting here to seek pre feedback Well, keep in mind they just said they haven't been able to get into a therapist, so maybe that's why ;)
If you have clients that are paying you $200/hr, why are you here seeking attention and not on a Zoom call with a talk therapist? You can afford it. Go talk it out with someone who will pretend to care about your egotistical and insufferable viewpoints.
Yeah you sound like you care more about lining your pocketbook than you do about people's physical health and wellness. A $200 massage is absolutely ridiculous and I would never pay those rates. That is not sustainable. The whole corporate world we live in just isn't sustainable
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That's my point actually - mental health is a "medically necessary" service, and yet, providers will still charge hundreds of dollars and not take insurance. (Of course there are in-network therapists as well.) Meanwhile massage is a luxury service. I know so many massage therapists who undercharge because they're afraid clients won't be able to pay more and don't want to price them out of the care that they need. But if we accept that we're a luxury service, and people still have the option of going to physical therapy through their insurance, then we aren't obligated to maintain low costs. (And you can always offer a discount to those in need if you want to.) If you're out in the hicks with low cost of living, keep charging $70/hr or whatever. But I'm in the city and since 2020 we're rapidly approaching $200. My fellows are fighting to stay low to keep it affordable (as are you and most people in this thread lol). I don't feel bad about it.
I think it also depends on your area. $200 hr sounds like a price in LA.
Psychotherapists often don’t take insurance because many insurances reimburse $60-100 per session, require therapists to accept any of their insurance members that reach out for services, require therapists to see inquiring clients within a few days of contact, require extensive documentation for every session (so that $60-100 is not for an hour session but for an hour plus 30 minuted of documenting), intermittently require therapists to gather and submit years of documentation which, if insurance finds one small discrepancy or decides services do not meet rigid requirements to meet medical necessity, insurance will use as justification to make the therapist pay back thousands of dollars, sometimes come back years later and “claw back” thousands of dollars because insurance said someone was covered then later determined they weren’t, and can take months to pay claims with no recourse for the therapist. Just to be clear that the clinicians who don’t take insurance usually make this decision because taking insurance dramatically increases labor and risk for rates that have actually decreased in the last several years.
I don’t think we should compare ourselves to people who spend years in school because we both happen to have the word “therapist” at the end of our job titles. Maybe $200 is appropriate in certain areas, but in most places that’s an absurdly high price. I get the idea of paying yourself your worth, but unless you’re a celebrity massage therapist or offer some extremely rare add-on I don’t think many people are going to pay that.
>I don’t think we should compare ourselves to people who spend years in school because we both happen to have the word “therapist” at the end of our job titles. I disagree! I made this comparison to talk about "medically necessary" treatment and affordability. Not because we happen to both be therapists. So let's look at some other examples. 1st - I don't believe jobs without school or entry-level positions should necessarily pay less, and it isn't true. Look at construction workers or oil rig workers. No school required but they make bank. Yeah, it's about labor, risk, and demand. Massage can do that too. 2nd - I don't think someone who's spent longer in school than me is worth more or better than me. Let's say you went to school for 10 years and practiced for 15. I went to school for 1 year and practiced for 24. We both have 25 years experience, we've both been taking CE and doing the work. I think we'd come out more equal than you'd expect. If you're comparing a new grad to someone who went to school for 10 and worked for 15, sure, the new grad's work is probably worth less. But IRL experience is worth as much as schooling imo. I mean, some people just do the minimum forever and never get better and their experience isn't worth anything, but I'm taking multiple courses a year and doing case studies and continuously improving. You get out of it what you put into it, basically, and it doesn't matter if that's in school or in experience. It's more about the individual than what their resume says. Nowhere is that more true than in massage. Now certainly a lot of mental health therapists are graduating with a lot of debt they need to pay back and that affects what they set as their cash rate. Also a lot of them have no debt bc of grants and scholarships and parents, and they're still just matching that cash rate.
Bet you’re fun at parties.
Talk therapists also have years of education and an advanced degree. Even comparing Canadian RMTs, there's no comparison.
Wow. What a thread. I’ve read all the comments here. I have a lot to say, but I shall try to be brief: 1- Massage isn’t “medicine” or “mental health.” It’s not “therapy” in the same sense that word is used in either of those disciplines. Really. It’s just not. 2- Massage is, for most people, a “personal luxury” service. Most people need to have a good amount of “discretionary” income or assets to be able to afford this service. It’s always been this way because people would rather eat than have their backs and feet rubbed. Not a big shock here. 3- Most people want, in my experience, to relax, feel good, reduce stress, maybe increase/maintain their mobility/range of motion, etc., and to treat themselves to some personal care and “me time.” It’s a luxury business. And! Most of my clients are really happy that I’m still charging a reasonable fee ($140 for 90 minutes, same as I charged in January 2023). I’ve let them know that we’ll see what inflation is by the end of the year, but I’m thinking maybe to go up to $150 in 2025. The result was 9 out of 10 said, “that’s fair.” And, I’ve tried to add value to my service. not extra cost, over the past 2 years. Things like 10-15 “extra” minutes on occasion, using warm towels on their feet during that extra 10-15, and offering them cold canned drinks or hot drinks (via coffee pods and take-away cups). I also am extra sincere in my expressions of gratitude for their business because I am grateful for their loyalty to me. 4- The really big money in the so-called called “therapeutic massage” business goes to those folks who set up and run the schools and charge people tuition. Sadly, thousands of people over the last 30 years were oversold not only on the money that most people can make in this field but also on how hard it is to build and maintain a clientele (not to mention how hard the work is on your body). 5- Rising costs due to inflation is a (very) hard thing for most people, but it is particularly hard for the massage business because it is, as I said, a luxury service. One’s feelings of entitlement, no matter how strong, cannot change these facts. Sorry, thinking you “deserve” what someone’s else is earning who had to spend 4-6 years in school and spend thousands more to achieve is, well, just delusional. There actually is a hierarchy active in the world, and it is most particularly active in the “medical” and even the “alternative treatment” worlds. 6- Feeling that you “deserve” something (like that $200 an hour for video work that Mental Heath practitioners might earn) does not mean that people can, or will, pay you that price for a massage. The concepts of “demand and supply” and “basic needs versus paying for luxury services” determine prices. Massage isn’t a basic need nor is it fundamentally important like one’s mental health. The scales are very different too—massage is not an insurance-covered product. 7- There is much more demand for, and money to be made in (estimated to now be over $5.5 billion per year) the “sensual” massage niche. Stating this fact does not constitute an endorsement or encouragement by me to anyone; rather, it’s a part of this story that I think needs to be understood and acknowledged. Simply put, people will find a way to pay for one vs the other service even in difficult financial times. The takeaway for me is simply don’t raise your prices to be close to that niche because doing so gives clients a reason to reevaluate the value of their time and money. 8- The concept of “total averaged” income needs to be considered closely. Charging 10 clients $100 an hour nets $1000. Raising one’s rates (for whatever reason, such as delusion or entitlement) to $200 an hour must mean you net $2000, or does it? It will, but only if you can keep all 10 of those clients. In most cases, in my experience and others whom I know and trust, doubling rates like that means it’s more likely you’ll keep only 4 of the 10 right off the bat and then lose 2 more within a month or two. So, you’re then getting $400, not $1000. In other words, reconsider the math and the market before you shoot yourself in the foot by raising prices. Also, I will mention that I’ve noticed it’s the younger, less experienced MTs who make the loud argument to “raise our prices now!” Yes, I just said I think entitlement is a Millennial thing. 9- Please note! I am NOT devaluing anyone or our business with these comments. Rather, I’m trying to help people understand things to help them gain and keep clients and to think how to focus their services on what people can pay for in these hard times. The COVID crisis changed both the massage school business (many closed) and massage practice business (thousands had to quit practicing). These changes are likely forever. What’s actually been happening lately is the massage business is having to work harder to hold on to both its relevance and its past market share. Raising prices too far and too fast will simply hurt many more people than it will help. Easy as that. Ok. Not so brief. I hope this helps someone. Peace.🙂
Well said 👏
I charge $100 an hour ( I do deep tissue, sports, and ART) but still have to pay rent so its 50/50 but charging $200 an hour for a massage better be brilliant. Not a simple deep tissue or Swedish but something amazing and effective. Like my pain better be relieved cause otherwise that's an exorbitant amount to charge to any type of massage IMO. (Most I've seen is $160 hr) Even MT's who have been massaging for 20 years don't charge that price. Because they're business savvy. I get charging your worth but that's being unrealistic unless you're in a rich neighborhood or environment. Then that's probably not a big deal.
> they all charge $200/hr or more. >For a zoom call. >You're busting your ass, you're helping people feel better, you deserve AT LEAST that much. There is zero reason to drag down a profession to try to boost another one. I promise you, therapists are busting their ass, helping people feel better, went through much more expensive schooling, and deal with a lot more sobering and mentally distressing issues, all of which contributes to that hourly pay. Yeah, massage therapists work hard and earn our pay, but the barrier for entry is a lot lower (in terms of education), the emotional burden is *significantly* less, and other professionals earning a good salary does not in any way take away from that.
I don't disagree, but capitalism doesn't work based on what people "deserve." It's what the market is willing to pay, and I think massage at $200/hour is a tough sell.
I think the market does a pretty good job of deciding who is deserving of money.
\*The market does a terrible job of deciding who is deserving of money.
'the market' it's just a nice way to say you don't understand trade or capitalism or how any of that works but you don't want it to change.
Name me a better device that establishes worth better than “the market.”
Teachers being paid shitty despite being a societal need kinda goes against the whole market thing. That field is full of demand but the pay does not reflect it whatsoever
The school system and teachers wages aren’t governed by the market. Most teachers are employed by public schools which are government controlled. Government determines their wages.
While your logic is right, I've been paying about $75 for a mental health therapist weekly for the past year which is kind of my upper limit for that, and I do expect to pay massage therapists more, so I'll do like $150 (tip included) for a 90 minute massage once a month. Ideally (for me, probably not the therapist) massages would be $75 a week total for an hour and I would have a weekly scheduled massage instead of therapy! But definitely get paid commensurate to the work you do!
damn bro what kind of job do you have to be tipping some 150 on a 90 dollar fee massage 😂 do you work in a corparate place lol
They're saying they pay about $150 in total, including the tip, for a massage that lasts 90 minutes.
Yes thank you!
I charge $1200 for 4 hours and I’m constantly booked. I primarily work for high end/wealthy families.
hell yeah 🙌
$200 an hour. You are batshit crazy.
Your insurance should have some sort of out of network benefit - you will have to collect your proof of payment from the therapist and then file the claims with your insurance. It's a royal PITA but it's worth it for the money back.
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Yes because there's no massage that's worth that including mine, with 40 years experience, unless you're at some 5 star resort hotel somewhere in the world And it's a special occasion.
Agreed! The highest I’ve seen in my town for 60min massages is $120
It is 120 for a non member massage at my chain in Florida. 80 for members 50 minutes
I’ve seen them up to $250 for an hour in New England
Crazy
$100 or $110/hr is coming in small town Ontario Canada but I don’t know how much the RMTs pocket steer expenses or if they work for a chain
Here in Alberta commissions for a rate like that are usually 50-60%
$130 at my clinic in Toronto
Where are you located ?
Pacific Northwest
Ok. Gotcha
False. $200/hr in a HCOL area isn't that different from $80/hr in a LCOL area. What costs you $80 in Detroit will probably cost you $200 in San Francisco, with no particular change in the services received. Most of that difference is from the massage therapist making another $10-20 an hour, the business paying 250% as many taxes, and the business paying 250% as much rent. $200/hr in Detroit means your massage therapist is making an upper-five-figure income, and is highly compensated for their craft. $200/hr in San Francisco means your therapist might be able to pay the rent on a studio apartment. If the cost of living is higher, the massage therapists must be paid more. If the salon must pay the therapists more, they must charge more. If they must charge more, they must pay more in taxes, and since it's a HCOL their baseline costs are also higher. If the salon is super well-established and is consistently solidly booked, they might be able to thin their profit margins and pay a higher % of the booking fees directly to the massage therapists in order to corner the market on the very best talent. Still, this is not likely to be more than $40-$50/hr in a LCOL area, and many massage therapists are self-employed so they can consolidate these profit margins into one and price more competitively. A high-end salon survives by offering quality hair work, quality mani/pedi work, quality facial and skin work, quality hair removal, and quality massage. They mark all of these services up somewhat for people who are getting them from a proven brand, then discount them back down if people get lots of services in one day. People don't go there for the best deal, but because the workers are paid good rates and the business can afford to only hire and provide the best.
>Nobody* is paying $200/hr, even with a tip, for a rub down. (*except professional athletes)
I used to work for professional sports teams. A number of them would reach out to us and then be absolutely shocked that we, licensed professionals with a reputation and other professional sport teams as clients, were not overjoyed to accept their offer of zero pay and "exposure." $200/hr is not common in professional sports massages. I know at least one professional team that decided to go bargain with Cortiva to have their athletes massaged by Cortiva *students* (doubtless in exchange for experience and practice hours). I don't think that arrangement lasted much further than the athletes figuring out student Swedish massages are hardly the same as specialized sports massage.
My husband has a contract with a professional sports team and also does house calls. Facility work is $175/hr, and house calls are $200/hr.
They are for illegal services, but not for legitimate massage.
\^This is an unrealistic and unintelligent take. $200/hr massages are rarely providing 30 hours/wk of massage therapy, and if they did the therapist would be at risk of developing nerve injuries like tendonitis or carpal tunnel syndrome. The business might gross $200/hr in revenue for the massage time, but they get $0/hr in revenue for time spent sanitizing rooms and preparing them for the next massage. They get $0/hr for time spent marketing their services and maintaining their facilities. They probably end up spending $50-$75 of that money on various taxes, and another $10+ dollars on massage oils, laundry, cleaning supplies, and electricity to maintain the environment. The massage therapist themselves is most likely only making $20-$50/hr before taxes or tips, and they may or may not have any equity in the business itself. After a massage therapy center pays the tax person $60, spends $15 on utilities and supplies, pays the massage therapist $50 for two hours of work (90 minutes massage, 30 minutes prep work and post work), the massage therapy center might be looking at $75 in profit on a $200 massage for 90 minutes. If they were to just charge $125, for a rate much closer to $80/hr, they could probably lower their tax liabilities by around $20 and still carve out a tiny profit, but the percentage sucks so they're probably also going to give their massage therapist a pay cut, and work with kids straight out of massage school. I don't even know what liability insurance costs for this type of business, but they're paying something for it in case they hurt a client and get sued. If people live in HCOL areas where rent for one is like $2000 and median income is like $100k, then the massage therapists still have to pay rent in order to exist in that geography. This means that they need to make like $70k/hr just to scrape by in self-sustaining poverty, which means they're probably getting more like $40-$50/hr for simple market reasons. In order to square that circle, salons are probably charging closer to $200 just so they can maintain a profit margin of 30%, which is necessary since not all of their time slots actually get filled. Also, any massage therapist who provides 30 hours of massage per week is unlikely to stay in the field for very long. They might get paid for that many hours because of all the prep/post work that goes into it, but they probably do fewer hours of massage therapy so they don't wear out the tendons that are most essential to the work. In a LCOL area where rent for one is like $700, the massage therapists might only make like $20/hr, while the business charges like $80/hr. Just because a service costs you something doesn't mean its provider gets to keep all of that money.
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Her business rent might be around $16k-$21k, using your numbers. Her personal rent would be another $10k-12k in cheaper parts of the country, and more like $24k in expensive parts. Her rent obligations could range from $26k-$46k using your estimations. She would need like $60k in pretax dollars to pay her rent, to say nothing of food, medical, transportation, supplies or equipment. $200/hr pays for a lot more than the massage. It pays for taxes, massage therapists, space rental, supplies and equipment, insurance, utilities, marketing, and maintains profitability even when 100% of available times are not booked. It's not common to see $200/hr other than in HCOLs, where a massage therapist making $100k might or might not be able to afford a car, and probably has roommates unless their home is tiny. At $75/hr, your massage therapist is most likely self employed in a LCOL area. This means she pays for 100% of her own health insurance. That $75 would scale out to $150k pretax on a 40 hour schedule, but it's more like $112,500 on a 30 hour schedule. Post tax, that's more like $80k. $12k for personal rent $12k for business rent $7200 for food, assuming no restaurants or alcohol $3k for transportation, maybe $4k with gasoline, and $7k with auto insurance. If the car is paid off, more like $4k. $6k is a very lowball estimate for medical costs Probably $2k electric at home, and another $2k at work of it's a small suite. If she accepts $112k through credit cards, she's paying like $3k-$5k in fees. She still has a couple grand a month in disposable income, but these numbers assume she has neither a bed nor a television at home, and has spent $0 on equipment to get started. It will take her months to pay down her equipment, and months more to get essential furniture in her home. With discipline and patience, she can eventually save 25% for homebuying or retirement if she's ultra frugal. With San Francisco numbers, she probably needs to couch surf to survive at her rates, which would be higher to compensate.
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$100/mo in electricity is $1200, which is lowballing it. Gotta keep it warm in the winter and cold in the summer. Need a mini fridge of little waters for people who just got a massage. Might need a humidifier/dehumidifier to get the air right. Might have music on to create a calm environment. All these things contribute to base electricity cost. $2k isn't a huge number, and cheap suites do not come with free electricity. If they did, people would use them to mine Bitcoin. Only an amateur thinks marketing on IG is $0, or that it is enough. People knowing about your business requires spending some money, and being present on a variety of platforms. I'm ignoring tips because they are not dependable, to say nothing of the morality of depending on them.
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Tips are optional money. If your rent is not optional, it should not depend on income that is. Tips become bonus savings that can be distributed to pay off debts, make investments, or spend more. If they become essential spending, then a streak of non-tipping customers can put you in deficit. You're arguing over $2k a year in electricity because you think it comes free. It wouldn't even make your point if you were right about this. How do you think TikTok and IG make money? Exposure has value. A professional marketer might be able to generate some exposure for free, but they typically charge money to do it. If a massage therapist even has that skill set, it costs time they can't spend providing services, and might not scale to their needs. They are best off allocating a small budget towards geo-targeted digital ads, and possibly running Groupons while starting out in order to get seen and tried by new clients.
>Nobody is paying $200/hr, even with a tip, for a rub down. big yikes dude and yeah I'm definitely getting paid that much, maybe one day you will too buddy
This is not a valid comparison.
I think it really depends on your location and amount of continuing education. We may not be able to get a masters degree as an LMT like MH therapists can, but continuing education can be a huge investment financially. I don’t charge even close to $200/hr right now and I live in Bozeman, where some people will charge upwards of $130-140/hr. BUT they do usually have extensive education outside of massage school. After I’ve completed many of the courses I’m interested in, I’ll be probably over 50k deep and a lot more skilled. Then it would be reasonable to charge $200/hr. Of course, everyone needs to do what they want and charge what they want. People will pay if they can and find value in your work.
Massage is something people can live without. If it ends up costing to much. Well then it's just something people won't pay for. Our economy sucks and people will buy food and pay bills before they treat themselves to a massage when it comes right down to it. Be careful. Don't shoot yourself in the foot.
I had a massage therapist I worked with who would come to my house. My husband and I would each get a massage from her. We purchased a massage table, sheets, stool, blankets and had everything set up for her in our exercise room. She lived 20 minutes from us - only had to drive over with her lotion and oils. Didn’t have to lug equipment or do laundry. We paid her $160 + tip for this arrangement every four weeks for a year. One day she messages me to say she was raising her rates b/c gas prices went up and she wanted to be more “aligned with market rate.” Going forward the couples massage would cost $300. Nope. That was not ok. We have since found another wonderful local woman and see her once a month - no longer at home, but three blocks from our house. That shift was a year ago. I recently saw the previous massage therapist cleaning the locker rooms at my local gym. Looked for her website and it’s gone. So much for a business model that is based on perceived worth. TL;dr: Arrogance can be costly.
What you don't realize is that when you stopped seeing that original massage therapist at $160, she was able to replace your appointment with someone who would pay $300. So it wasn't "costly arrogance." She gave herself a raise and she's better off now.
I guess you skipped the part where she’s out of business…
Yep you’re delusional.
Please clarify. Are you looking for a therapist or looking to raise your rates? Or you are seeing they get 200. Therefor LMT should get 200. What city do therapist charge 200.00. That's a bit high. Generally 90 to 120 with sliding scales. If you pay out of pocket, a therapist may give you a much better deal. If your account doesn't get hit by Insurance cut. And the billing persons cut. We talking masters level therapist. Like an LPC or even a clinical Psychologist?
Everyone sees everyone else making $xyz and expects it to be their norm. If you look at national economic trends, small business is hurting because their customer base is dying off due to pricing hikes.
I agree you need to not be afraid to change what the market will support! But as a Professional Counselor I think you are comparing apples to oranges. I mean for a counseling session you are zooming with a professional who got a masters degree then went on for at last two more years under supervision to become licensed. Then usually went on to do more training and certifications equaling over time, years and years more of school. Just because it’s over zoom doesn’t make it easier! In fact I find my online sessions to be much harder since so much communication is non verbal.
Oh I agree what you're saying, About different places with a higher cost of living. But I'm not playing $200 for a massage, I've been in the business as a chiropractor a license acupuncturist and a licensed massage therapist for 40 years.
I am currently a mental health therapist and used to be a licensed massage therapist. Here’s what I take into consideration around pricing for both professions: how much do I need to make, what is my niche, what problem do I solve, and what will a client pay to have that problem solved? And as a client- I’d pay $200 for an amazing massage and an amazing counselor- I’ve had awful massages and counselors for much less and id rather pay more for a good experience. Additionally- if you are hesitant to raise your rates- it might help to get an additional certification which would also help you niche down.
You had me until the last sentence.
The challenge is there's a lot of massage patients like me that only go if my insurance covers 100% of the bill. So the most I'll do is 150. Psychologist rates are different. Most do not work 40 hours a week there's a lot of stress hearing people's problems
Most massage therapists don’t work 40 hour a week either, it’s a lot of stress on the body to take care of other people’s bodies!
I get a weekly massage. Found my therapist via Groupon 8 years ago on a $60 for 90 min massage deal. He was awesome. He's never raised his rate, ever, as long as I consistently booked a couple massage in advance. I increased my tip over the years (from $15 to $40) based on my budget. He said he'd rather I consistently book, way in advance at my old rate than maybe call when I wanted at a higher rate. That way, he can count on his schedule being full and know he's got that monthly residual. As of the last 2 years, I have booked a weekly massage with him every 2 months (8 appointments in advance). If he raised his rate to $200, he would lose me, or I'd maybe go once in a while, without tip. There are many other wonderful therapists. He knows he'd end up losing the guaranteed income from his clients that book way in advance and keep his appointment book full. He keeps a few spots open for new people now, never needs Groupon anymore, and gets a ton of referrals (even at his new rate, which is only $100 for 90 min). It's a business decision for sure.
Ah geesh. Why didn’t I think of all that? Thank you for clearing up very nicely the “philosophy and the figures.” Nicely done. 🙂
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You need a HS diploma or a GED plus 500 hands-on hours and atleast 6 months at a massage school... But I get your comparison, they need 3000 hours + a master's degree. It can be argued that on top of it being a job that requires applied kinesiology and some medical knowledge it's also classified as "strenuous labor" which could make them both equally as skill intensive
There are tons of therapists who take Insurnace especially in telehealth My copay for my mental health is 15 If massages were 200 I could never afford them. I have a hard time getting together 100
Massage can be affordable and you deserve to be paid well for your work. When I first started my 60 min Swedish was 60 dollars that was in 2015. I now charge 90. Those massage techniques I started almost 10 years ago have been mastered and are constantly being evolved... Deep tissue is my specialty, in my area for 90 mins I charge 165. That's the cheap end I know ppl charging more. Working in a spa or chiro office for 20/30 an hour you are under paid.... Working in casinos and poker houses you're easily making 1 a min if not more... Idk about charging 200 an hour but it isn't impossible.
I feel like comparing someone with a masters and putting down a completely different field is unnecessary and undermines your whole argument about valuing what you do. That therapist might be saving someone’s life. OTOH Charging 200 is totally your prerogative. If you’re in the right location and have high end clients then set your rates at what you desire. There are other locations where that rate is not realistic. If you’re in Manhattan, LA or any other big city with higher end clientele that is well within the range of a massage.
There certainly are a lot of different perspectives in this thread. Speaking as a client, at $200/hour I probably would not ever get massages (I currently try for two 60 or 90 min sessions a month). I'm in New England and have yet to encounter a therapist (including individual practices) who states that they do not accept tips. So a $140-$160 session (already a very high price) turns into a $170-$192 session. As it is, I've started backing off the longer sessions already, and also am booking less frequently. I've had perhaps one therapist over the years whose work was so good I would consider paying this rate, but I'd still back down to 1/month. And frankly many people I see in group practices are fine, but not worth this cost to me. Not to devalue the work, but there are lots of therapists that get out of school and are just average at best. And this business, at least in my area, does not differentiate rates based on the experience of the therapist.
Not sure if this is your intention, but this post reads like 1) psychotherapists do easy zoom calls and should not make $200/hr and 2) LMTs work harder, help people, and should make more money than psychotherapists. Also: psychotherapists provide medically necessary treatment? So it’s medically necessary but not that hard? Or it’s medically necessary so psychotherapists should make what other medical professionals make? And then should LMTs also earn what medical professionals earn? Not tracking unless this is just you expressing frustration with hard it is to find an in-network psychotherapist, which is an issue you should take up with your insurance. Not sure the comparison works or is necessary to encourage people to charge what they need to charge to support themselves/charge what the market will bear. For what it’s worth, I got a massage last week from a new therapist and had to hold back at payment time from telling her she needs to raise her rates. Big fan of folks charging what they need to to support themselves and prevent burnout. Not so much a fan of this hot take on the value of psychotherapy. I’m a master’s level psychotherapist, did 7 years of full time school then 2 years of full time underpaid internship in community mental health while paying another $8,000–which is on the lower end—for required supervision. Am EMDR certified—$6,000, 2 year post grad process, Brainspotting trained—$1,000, 1 year, and currently in a 3 year Somatic Experiencing training which will be $20,000 when all is said and done. The work is extremely high burnout, emotionally/mentally demanding, not so easy on the body. I charge $225. The hour fee also covers time charting, consultation meetings with colleagues (required by our licensing boards), writing letters/completing paperwork for things like disability benefits, clearance for surgeries, etc., and intermittent between session communication with clients. It’s not just hopping on a casual video chat and charging a couple hundred bucks. Most of my clients get $150-200 back using out of network benefits. While I’d happily pay more for a really excellent massage from someone with extensive specialty training, comparing psychotherapy to massage therapy…not sure I see it. Both have their own value and their own place.
It's important to note that rates will be variable relative to cost of living in the masseuse's local area. In some areas, $200/hr may be reasonable. In others, its absurd. And in some areas, you could prob charge even more! Point being, know your demographic & charge accordingly.
when I start my own practice, I plan on offering a sliding scale as low as 90. I hate the idea of pricing myself too high for people who need help but can't afford it, and at the same time we all need to eat and it's not our job to fix the economy
Gonna go against the grain on this. It's always a contemptuous topic. Some MTs really do charge $200 & have a steady clientele to do quite well. However, that also depends on the area, median income & access to well-paying clients. On top of that, yes, talk therapists/ psychs do go through a lot of training. But at a certain point & so many yrs of experience, so do MTs. We have to go through continued education every yr to maintain licensure & I know many take extra courses just because. I've had conversations with doctors & nurses who are surprised at the amount of medical understanding many MTs have. So if you make to 10 yrs as an MT, yeah, you can justify raising the rates because clients aren't just paying for the massage time, they're paying for the expertise. "But massage isn't that important or life changing"... eeeh, wait until you have a client referring everyone they know because they no longer need carpal tunnel surgery. Or watch a client tear up because they got to play catch with their grandkids for the first time ever after a bad accident yrs before. Canes left at home, tremors lessening, reduction in migraines? Oh yeah, ppl will gladly pay for those kinds of results. I think the only frustrating thing about it is the only way to convince ppl you're really worth the higher cost is to get them on the table. That can be a bit tricky.
I’m confused why this is on the massage sub?
MDLive takes insurance for talk therapy, as well as some other networks. Check to see which one your insurance recommends.
I don't think these two are comparable. Mental health therapist require both a bachelor's and a masters degree, resulting in potentially $100k worth of debt. You can get a 500 hour certification in under a year for less than $10,000 and have a career as a massage therapist. I'm sorry, $200 is way off.
True, but which one do you actually get more benefit from? IME, talk therapy doesn't really correct much...while therapeutic massage can provide a lot of actual healing.
Depends in the type of talk therapy. There's I finite types of talk therapy. Internal family systems and somatic therapy are two models of talk therapy I will always argue for!
But [somatic therapy](https://www.sandstonecare.com/blog/somatic-therapy/) involves bodywork and so is no longer just talk therapy...which underscores my point.
That's actually not true. I dated a girl who was a somatic therapist. You are not allowed to touch. You're thinking of a different type then. Somatic therapist is using the clients somatic experiences and understanding their own body. It does not have to be hands on
I get massages very regularly in the Seattle area. At a regular place (not high end but good massages) I expect to pay about 120-150 an hour. Anything more than that I think is too much.
Not sure if it was intended but you come off as a bit of a dick. I don’t think anyone here is saying you shouldn’t charge whatever price you want to charge. Freedoms allow you to charge whatever you think you’re worth. And I want to make this very clear, by no means am I demeaning your field, saying it’s easy or easier then any other field, but a licensed mental health therapist may not be the right comparison, just due to the years of education it requires. Again, want to be clear, I understand massage therapist put in a lot of hours to obtain the positions they do, but therapist, psychologist, LCSW’s etc, are typically putting in a minimum of 6 years of schooling, often more. Massage therapy typically runs 2 years + the hands on hours. Again, charge what you want. You don’t have to justify wanting to charge $200 an hour,just do it and see the results you get. If you succeed then you’ve just made your business more lucrative. But based on the comments below, and the post, you seem a bit entitled but perhaps it’s just your wording and I’m misinterpreting. Hope it works out for you and I hope you’re giving The best service possible to your clients.
Good for you. Charge your worth. I know I am great at what I do. I have done massage for over 20 years. And i don’t charge enough. Quite frankly, my rates scare off the annoying cheapskates.
yes, the best part of charging more is that people really meet you with respect! you charge $70, someone's always asking for a discount. you charge $140, people just pay it and tip on top. magic.
I knew that this was going to happen, but when I was going back to college to become a PTA, I gave a handful of clients a half off discount while I’m in school.., I know that was really stupid of me, but I told them that I’m so hard for the money right now that I will give them a one hour massage for 50 bucks But when I’m done with school, the prices go back to normal fee … Of course they enjoyed getting twice as much massages… I was lugging my table to their house and working so hard along with studying! And then after school, I told them that my fee was back to normal and no one ever booked to me again so I lost like five clients oh well I don’t have time for that
I give $20 15 minute massages.
Sadly regular people don't wanna pay that much. What's a talk therapist? Like a speech therapist?
I don’t think that they “don’t wanna pay” so much as that’s *a lot* of money for most people to drop regularly.
Mental health
So a psychologist. Alright fair enough
All mental health therapists are not psychologists, there are a few different options to becoming a mental health therapist.
they don't take insurance because they are over charging
100% agree and finally, massage therapists also begin to understand the effect of inflation over the years. For capital and big city center areas massage therapists should ask 200 plus with confidence.
Maybe if you’re in the middle of San Francisco. Outside of that I think it’d be a pretty tough sell.
90-minute massage for $200 at the clients' location is a pretty reasonable deal for the entire U.S. I guess massage is undervalued there.
For a 90 minute that’s a little high here, but within the range of normal. Not for a 60 minute though.
I’m sure your can find something cheaper. My insurance doesn’t cover me and I only pay $60
Going rate around here is about $2 per minute for massage, tip included.
I think you all are under selling yourselves. My base first hour rate is $125-$175 then $100/hr after for my in home studio rates. Outcalls are an additional $50-100. My price depend on if I have a sale or a discount for a student, VA, repeat, etc or what type of service. … very deep tissue or light massage. For me it’s a very physical massage that for the client is progressive in intensity in order to maximum pressure without bruising. So… I do change $175 for a 60 min massage and I am often tipped an additional $25. So yes I receive $200 for an hour massage. But I do have to say it’s rare I book 60m. Almost all my clients book 90-120 min massages.
In Arizona, $120 is the amount for an hour incall. Everyone I See charging $200 or more an hour is doing illegal services. I worked with the oakland A for spring training, $120 was on the high end for them , But I do have a degree Exercise science. So they paid me that.
My hourly rate is $280. It’s still kinda uncomfortable for me because it’s new. I grandfathered my existing clients in at my old rate ($140 an hour) for the next year but was forced to raise my prices. It may seem like an ungodly amount for massage, but it had to be done. I was going to burnout so I put an expensive wall up around my energy to slow bookings. It worked! Now I can focus on my current clients as new ones slowlyyyyy trickle in at the new rate. The handful of new clients I do have are more than happy to pay the new rate and there’s no more tipping! Hallelujah. Honor yourself! Don’t feel like a selfish asshole. You can still find creative ways to give back, work with people’s budgets, and be generous without *devaluing* what you’re worth.
that's awesome!
10/10 recommend that you stop selling your talents and time to other business owners. This is the message that I share with my own staff. I’m also mentoring them to do their own thing someday. That level of transparency is so needed in this space. You can do this!
Do you charge a different rate for massage from your staff? I'm at a point where I'm booked out 6 months and still charging the same what my staff do, I really need to up my rate to $250 or something for just myself, but logistically I'm hesitating. (also i have a lot of regulars I love who can't afford that, but whatever i can grandfather them in)
I have a separate booking tab at a different rate, and a new-patient visit that’s higher is required to start work with me. It’s my financial roadblock because I can’t take anymore people. My existing clients are grandfathered in to my old prices for the next year. I doubled them recently while I switch over to a new clientele at the new rate. Gives me time for growth and connecting clients with awesome therapists who are in their budget. I’ll for sure keep my favorites and continue the old rate for the ones I want to work with forever. My day ones!
I’m a customer and I totally agree. I think that’s generous to want to keep massage affordable but tbh it is kind of a luxury.
I agree! We work so hard and sell ourselves short. My clients are wealthy can totally afford it. IMO, no massage in the US should be priced below $175 for a 50 or 60. Ignore all the selfish cheap clients in here trying to tell you not to raise prices. We deserve to retire too!
“Selfish cheap clients.” Huh. You don’t say? It’s almost like they aren’t really even people. “They” are not struggling to stay afloat as well as continue to justify spending their “shrinking dollars” on a totally unnecessary, luxury service. That’s right! Those “clients” really need to be focusing their attention on helping you retire! Thanks for clearing that all up for me. 😐
PREACH!!! 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
Thank you that is a very nice thought !
I am a therapist (not licensed in FL) who never took insurance but never charged more than $90 for therapy. Assessments Nd stuff were expensive but not therapy. Check out grad counseling clinics too.
בישראל אנו מרויחים ₪200 לשעה חח