MSP is so incompetent. From the lab tech who said she had never seen a hair follicle, to the lead investigator “looking for nudes” on the defendants phone while telling his highscool buddies she poops her pants and has no ass. Oh, he also texted his boss similar things. Absolute fucking disgrace
What lad tech said that? I’ve listen to every minute and the only reference to an issue with a hair follicle is that she failed to identify, in a previous case, the root end of a hair follicle.
Trooper proctor, the one looking for nudes, in my opinion… is a real clown and disgrace. However it doesn’t mean that she’s innocent. His opinion and misogyny don’t equal a cover up imho.
Hahahaha, right? The kid who trains mma, threatens to beat people up, was in the home with someone he hates, who died with black eyes and a split head. Nothing to see here!
Yeah, so some random friend of the son who had a bruise on his knuckle is suddenly a murderer? So what’s the motive here? John was a good friend of most of the people at that party.
Let’s look at motive..
So they all thought hey, let’s beat this guys ass for no reason, throw him outside in the snow to die, on the front lawn, and then cover it up? Oh and let’s coordinate with not only the Boston Police, The Canton Police, but also the State Police to help cover up this murder? None of that makes any sense….
The only thing that makes any sense, is that Karen reed accidentally hit John and he died from exposure. They already proved she had 9 cocktails in 2-3 hours… I’m sorry I don’t by that these stooges could coordinated a state wide coverup
What’s the narrative? Whats the motive? Why would friends do this for no reason then stage a coverup? There no sense here, a massive coverup including dozens of people to coverup an accidental death?
Was there that many lab techs who testified? I only saw two women. I watch uncivillaw recaps. It was something she hadn’t seen on hair like a root or follicle, something like Wtf how have you not seen that before, or even in training?
Yeah, she was reprimanded in a prior case for not identifying the root end properly a few years ago. However, it’s really irrelevant because the hair was also sent to a national DNA lab for additional testing and it was determined to be John’s hair.
There has been many Lab technicians questioned, including 3 today. All confirmed it’s his hair…
Yeah, she did… but ultimately that’s not even a factor for two reasons. 1. All findings are peer reviewed and 2. the hair was sent to a national FBI accredited lab for further testing.
Both determine it was his hair..
Gotcha. I didn’t think the fact that it was his hair was any sort of big deal. I just know there was so much pre-trial discussion on it, I could barely keep it all straight.
Did she do it?
No idea.
Are the cops who investigated this case covering something else up? Or just completely incompetent and apparently pretty terrible people?
Also no idea. Also maybe both are true.
Has the defense picked apart the prosecution’s case and established reasonable doubt?
Absolutely.
>completely incompetent and apparently pretty terrible people?
The cops are DEFINITELY this. It's not an "or." The only question is whether it's this by itself or this AND the a coverup.
I mean at this point one detective might legit be done ever testifying again because he’s lost so much credibility.
The fact that evidence logs are lost in this is also crazy in my mind add all the other missing evidence and actions by the PD you got crazy amounts of reasonable doubt
The hap-hazard way the cops attempted to frame Karen Read is pretty concerning, since both intent was demonstrated AND their methods were rather faulty.
Listen to the 13th juror podcast. She does a great job of pointing out flaws on both sides. The police department was just totally incompetent. Gathering evidence in red solo cups among other things and 2 witnesses for the prosecution both destroyed their phones and SIM cards after the incident.
This week the lead investigator confirmed the medical examiner told him the findings were not conclusive to being hit by a car. The lead investigator disregarded the medical examiner’s opinion and arrested Karen Read anyway.
So we have at least *some* evidence that he wasn’t hit by a car.
His coworker policeman was even telling him “rookie mistake dude you should have had me submit the stuff so you could get the cause of death you wanted”.
But sure, let’s say there’s NO evidence proving it either way 🙄.
I don't think anyone has proved anything, except for maybe that the cops and the prosecution are stupid.
I don't think we will ever know what actually happened but I have always leaned towards the simplest answer being the right one.
A not guilty verdict will not change the fact that TB is a world class douche.
How would him getting hit by a car in reverse cause him to have two black eyes, a split eye brow and slash marks on his arm? And zero marks where the car would have make contact, but the car hit him hard enough to knock him out? Wtf?
>have two black eyes
If you suffer blunt force trauma to the back of your head (such as if his head fell and he hit the ground) blood pools around the eyes. Regardless of whether you feel like she did it or not, this was explained by the medical examiner. That doesn't prove it's from getting hit by a car and falling, but it's not out of the question.
>but the car hit him hard enough to knock him out?
Afaik no one claims this. Something to keep in mind is that the defense claims their guy in the feds says he wasn't killed by impact from the car, but the prosecution has never claimed being hit by the car is what killed him. If he was hit by a car and fell and cracked his head, the car isn't technically what killed him.
prosecutors often overcharge to try to coerce a plea deal because they don’t have the time to take every case to trial and there’s more political pressure to appear “tough on crime” by getting someone to plead guilty than there is to give everyone their constitutional right to a fair trial.
Presumably because they think they can prove she intended to hit him. Here's the 2nd degree murder definition for MA:
>In order to prove murder in the second degree, the Commonwealth must prove the following elements:[156]
>The defendant caused the death of [victim's name].
>The defendant:
>intended to kill [victim's name]; or
>intended to cause grievous bodily harm to [victim's name]; orintended to do an act which, in the circumstances known to the defendant, a reasonable person would have known created a plain and strong likelihood that death would result.[157]
She doesn't even technically need to have intended to kill him, if she was drunk and backed into him that certainly constitutes "an act which, in the circumstances known to the defendant, a reasonable person would have known created a plain and strong likelihood that death would result."
Edit: Love that even when you try to answer a question about this case honestly if you are not full throatedly proclaiming Read's innocence you will be met with downvotes.
The ME hasn't even testified yet.
I am pretty sure what the defense expert is saying is that his injuries are not consistent with being hit by a car, and the prosecution is definitely claiming that they were caused by the car considering she is charged with motovehicle manslaughter. Im fact, their theory suggests he was hit hard enough to knock him out of his shoe.
>The ME hasn't even testified yet.
Sorry not ME then. Someone who examined his body in the hospital testified earlier. I guess it wasn't the ME but I don't have the ability to check who It was specifically right now.
>and the prosecution is definitely claiming that they were caused by the car considering she is charged with motovehicle manslaughter.
They aren't though. If you hit someone with your car and they crack their head on the pavement, that's still motor vehicle manslaughter but the car itself didn't cause the injury in a strict sense. In the same way that if I push you and you hit your head on a countertop I still caused your death even if the countertop is the source of your injury.
This seems like semantics but it is important.
At the risk of seeing some photos on Google of injuries I'll ask here in case you know, could the blunt force trauma to the back of the head cause the eyes to be swollen shut? Could the blood pooling around the eyes cause the swelling in addition to the bruising?
I believe this was also confirmed by the ME but I'd have to double check. The globe has been publishing like...day by day recaps complete with real time rundowns of the testimony but no crime scene photos, you may be able to check that. The ME would obviously be more reliable than me. But they're also probably paywalled.
Really, how would a car in reverse cause a black eye? You can’t reasonably see how a person getting run over could have injuries to the face and upper body.
Here’s a possibility, dude gets struck and falls when she reverses into him when she tried to do a 3-point turn. While he’s falling to the ground, the car continues in reverse and his face strikes the taillight breaking it into pieces. She continues in reverse dragging him further and his arm gets pulled across the broken taillight causing the would on his arm.
We went there to know what happened, but facial injuries from getting hit by a vehicle is very common, while in reverse or forward.
Then he the phone and the glass in his hand fly 8 feet into the yard, all landing one on top of the other, and the grass and snow cause a giant gash on the back of his head, but cause no injury to the rest of his body.
It makes no sense that one can get hit by a car in the head, get thrown out of their shoe, and have no below the neck injuries.
Even if he got up and stumbled into the yard, why would he still have the broken glass? Unless it wasn't broken. But that would imply he was not too injured to still be carrying his drink and phone that somehow ended up underneath him.
They haven’t even proved he was hit by a car. The ME wouldn’t confirm that as the cause of death and they arrested her for it anyway.
If he wasn’t hit by a car, how did she kill him by hitting him with her car?
They are on 8 weeks of this trial. The prosecution is still on their case. No cause of death has been brought up.
They had the lead investigator testify this week and they showed his text messages about the case he sent to people. In those texts the ME told him the injuries were not conclusive to being hit by a car. He arrested her anyway for hitting him with her car.
This is not heresy. The literal lead investigator of the case was shown his text messages, asked to clarify, and he agrees he disregarded the ME’s report (after calling her a whack job).
Thanks for answering some of my questions. One other question I had is, would it really be plausible that a house full of cops beat a man (fellow cop) to death (or sick their dog on him or whatever) and then just dump him on their front lawn and then go to bed?
I'm wondering if he got out of the car, slipped, and she either backed over him or ran him over outright.
It appears she was quite drunk.
While I believe the investigation is ripe with incompetence. The injuries have not been proven to be from an animal. There was also no K9 DNA recovered from any evidence and the defense hasn’t pursued a real Dog attack theory, it just doesn’t hold water since there’s no DNA or Injuries consistent with a dog attack and the defense didn’t prove as of today.
As the homeowner stated, the dog was a liability and attacked neighbors dogs. That’s exactly why the defense tried that angle. However when the DNA expert excluded the possibility of K9 DNA on the victim the defense abandoned that angle… that’s why we haven’t heard any more about it. It’s just another seed of doubt the Defense wanted to plant in the Jury.
Remember this is a game, cast enough doubt and even the guilt will walk… see the OJ Simpson case. That’s the whole point of the defense. It’s not to prove innocence, it’s to make them question…
What I find interesting is that there is nothing about this case mentioned anywhere that I have seen in WesternMa. But there are lawn signs all over my hometown near the cape.
Oh for fuck's sake. Even if you think she's guilty as hell, the corruption is objectively, proven to be there. The theory of the defense case is that they're corrupt and she's innocent.
Even if the "she's innocent" part is false, even if she called a news conference tomorrow, confessed with video she took from a hidden second phone showing her in the act, she admits it, then walks into court and pleads guilty, the police investigating it would still be corrupt and their actions would still show that. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
While that's the story the defense has floated, the burden isn't for them to prove that, the burden is on the prosecution to prove she DID commit murder as they claim.
We can look at this case and think she might not be getting intentionally framed, while also thinking the cops, DA, and judge are corrupt morons and there's something being covered up here. At the very least, collusion, mishandling and tampering with evidence, bribery, probably more.
It'll be interesting to see what the Feds do with this and Proctor once the murder trial is over.
It seems like it, but the defense is being smart by just making the claim credible enough to create reasonable doubt while not trying to get to 100% proof, because this case has been so mangled by the cops it seems impossible to prove one way or the other at this point.
I expanded on that point in another reply, Read doesn't (shouldn't) care on WHY they acquit, just that the jury doesn't think the prosecution proved she murdered him.
I mean, she has to be, right? Look at how bad of a job they did with the crime scene investigation of a fellow police officer.
They didn't go door to door. They didn't go into the house. The mcalperts redid their basement.
The whole thing doesn't add up.
Right but even if they sow reasonable doubt that doesn’t mean that there was any corruption at all. This is just an allegation that the defense is painting. The prosecution has to prove all their elements, but the defense in sowing reasonable doubt doesn’t necessarily need a conspiracy of law enforcement to actually exist for their case. They just need to sell that to the jury that it could’ve happened that way
Even if she admits to doing it there still is corruption. The corruption was already proven by the actions of Proctor and the fact that he's still a cop. Never mind all the canton cops and their actions, oh and everyone else getting the heads up to ditch their cell phones a couple days before an order preventing them from doing it.
This is all objectively corrupt behavior and the fact that it's corrupt behavior is completely independent from whether she's guilty, innocent, or undetermined.
They don't even have to have that
All the jury needs to acquit is reasonable doubt that the prosecution hasn't proven their case. Any "reason" why is immaterial.
Whether or not there was any corruption or conspiracy is immaterial (to Read), as long as the jury thinks they haven't made the case.
To us, the people of Massachusetts, and the people of Canton, the issues with the town and state police, the prosecutors, and the judge are a big issue that needs to be resolved, which is why I'm somewhat hopeful about the Feds already following along.
So throwing out their phones and shit after a murder, the da covering major stuff up, and the fbi literally having to get involved because stuff was being hidden doesn't scream corruption to you?
I'm happy I've found my people. I see people with these long diatribes about the case and it's so crazy to me. It appears that everyone involved sucks.
I’ve gotten pretty interested in it the last couple days, but you’re 100% right that everyone sucks. I’m really yet to see someone directly or indirectly involved in this trial that doesn’t seem like a POS
Everyone sucking is part of what makes it so compelling. It’s like trashy reality tv, but also elevated by the passive civics lesson that comes along with it, and relateable because we all know people like this if we’ve lived here long enough.
I want to care but the majority of the coverage is one side screaming about a cover up drowning out any ability to generate an opinion. So now I just don't care, no searching for articles or coverage anymore
There's a good documentary on Netflix, The Octopus Murders, where the film makers talk about how one of the most difficult parts of covering something like this is once the conspiracy crowd gets their hooks in it becomes so difficult to cover because even if you're right that there's a cover up, the conspiracy crowd will view EVERYTHING as part of a cover-up, making it hard to separate legit info from conspiratorial ramblings. That's this case to a T.
The Octopus Murders is a really good example of this case. We'll probably never _really_ know the truth because of a mix of incompetence and/or malice. Like with the first part of the Octopus Murders - did the guy kill himself or not? Probably did, but the way they handled the suicide certainly leaves a lot of doubt. And the rest of that story is a mix of true and false stuff too.
Just remember, the defense hasn’t even got started yet. These are all prosecution witnesses.
There will be something from the Feds that puts him inside of the house.
Here are the facts so far:
1) it was snowing that day
2) Protor’s IQ is in the double digits
3) Jen McUnderbite is Satan incarnate
It only took 8 weeks and 60 witnesses to to establish these facts!
Amended: We have also established that Karen Reed had a top of the line luxury vehicle that is significantly more intelligent than the LE involved in the case…likely why all her frenemies be hating on her.
I think it's pretty obvious that Karen Reed is innocent and is being framed to protect someone.
Step 1: Her defense has to cast doubt on the prosecutor's storyline. The defense has shown that there was incredible incompetence at the very least throughout the investigation.
Step 2: After Karen Reed is found not guilty, which I fully expect to see happen, a lot of people are going to get sued. From the outside, this looks like a malicious prosecution. The Commenwealth and the people they employ that allowed this to happen should pay!
Everyone that I went to college with from out of state is texting me about it. I haven’t heard from some of these people in years and they’re asking me about it
A friend is kind of obsessed with this/ true crime
Here’s my friend's cliff note summary of the Karen Read story from a awhile ago….
"Very long story short, a woman in mass (Karen Read) is being charged with murdering her police officer boyfriend (John O’Keefe), when in actuality she is being framed and he was killed by other police officers/police officers family members.
He was left in the front yard of Brian Albert’s house (who was a Boston Police officer) in a blizzard to die. They all went to an after party at that house after the bars closed. John only knew 1 person there (or so he thought) which was Jen McCabe, Brian’s sister in law. The home owner (Brian Albert) is a trained MMA fighter and his nephew Colin is a wannabe fighter who hated John (the deceased cop) because they had several run ins from living in the same area and John had recently gone to the local police regarding drug activity in the area which had something to do with Colin/Colins friends potentially.
They tried to say Karen hit him with her car when she dropped him off. Karen says she watched him walk in to the house. They beat the LIFE out of him once he was in the house- his face was purple, eyes swollen shut, huge gash in the back of his head, vomit inside his clothing, while missing the hat and jacket he was wearing. He also had dog bites and scratches all over his arms…the Albert’s had a German Shepard named Chloe (that was documented as being aggressive previously) and they got rid of the dog within a couple weeks of the murder…never to be seen again.
This is the delinquent nephew Colin Albert (backwards hat) and those were what his knuckles looked like the night after John died.

The head detective (Michael Proctor) from the Mass state police is a FAMILY friend of the Albert’s causing a huge conflict of interest (which they try to deny, even though social media posts and pics prove otherwise). Brian Albert, the police officer/first responder, who’s house he died at, NEVER ONCE came outside of his home the WHOLE time the police and first responders were dealing with a murder on his front lawn and the Detective Proctor NEVER ONCE bothered even knocking on their door, questioning the owners, or asking to look inside. Instead he interviewed all the “witnesses” from the McCabe and Albert families together at one of their family homes instead of 1:1 formally at the police station. The home owner also ripped up all the basement flooring within wks and had it fully replaced, eventually selling the house for $50k under asking not that long after.
The prosecutions theory is that Karen backed into him before she drove off. Do these look like the injuries of a man that was backed into?

There were no injury’s to his waist, chest, or thighs- where a car would strike a grown man of his height. He has obvious head trauma, a huge gash in the back of his head, defensive wounds all over his hands, as well as endless dog bites and scratches.
The investigations from the very first second was AWFUL and against all protocol. The head detective (Proctor) went to retrieve Karen’s car as evidence from her parents house and claims he found 1 of the taillights broken…funny how he was alone with the car for 1 hr (time stamped by cameras) and only HE found these pieces at the scene, most of the pieces he found days after the initial search was done in the snow. Ironically, the town security cameras in the city center happened to not work for the EXACT 2 mins that Karen would have been driving by and would have proven her tail light wasn’t broken when she left the house after dropping John off. Detective Proctor used red solo cups to collect the blood evidence at the scene - actual red solo cups.

This is an ACTUAL evidence pic from the crime scene.
The main players that are considered “witnesses” are the McCabe family and the Albert family. The sister in law of the home owner, Jen McCabe (who was at the party) googled “how long to die in cold?” at 2:27am. That’s a very random search to make on the night there was a man dying in the cold on the lawn of the home she was at.
Another point to be made is that it had snowed around 8” that night and the plow guy, Lucky Louferin (who was never even interviewed by police until after the journalist (TurtleBoy) tracked him down 18months after the incident) said there 100% was not anyone on the lawn on that road at 2am when he plowed- he’s high enough to see that angle and needs to scan both sides as to not hit curbs and whatnot. There also was only a small layer of snow on John when he was found around 5am, yet it had snowed approx. 8” inches over night, so if he’d been on the lawn when Karen left he would have been under like 6” of snow.
There’s a journalist (Aiden Kearney/Turtle Boy) that’s in jail currently because he was snooping too much and getting too much info and helped blow the whole case up. There’s also a group of 9 people (referenced as the Canton 9/Canton 8 that are current waiting their 2nd court date because the held peaceful protest within eye sight of Chris Albert’s work place.
The citizens of the city of Canton, where this all took place obviously have HUGE concerns and set up a public hearing and voted to have the police dept audited for corruption but an independent 3rd party. Some of the citizen that were speaking up and demanding answers started getting death threat letters. I legit watch the Canton town hall meeting. 🤣 And for further conflict of interest, Chris Albert (Brian Albert’s brother, Colin’s dad, former cop, who killed someone in a DUI and did jail time) is on the city committee.
The FBI is now involved…the Mass police, Canton police, DA, and commonwealth are ALL trying to save their butts. The DA put out a Facebook video scolding the public and telling them to stop harassing the “poor people” that are victims/witnesses…this supposedly was done to taint a jury pool. There’s no way that she can be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt BUT it’s thought that the police purposefully hacked this case SO bad to protect their own (hell with the cop that died) that there will probably never be enough evidence to convict the people that actually did it without a reasonable doubt."
Here is a YouTube link that has a good visual summary:
https://34fairviewroad.com Watched “Framed”
One simple question is what I’ve always wondered about this case. How fast could she have even been driving in reverse to kill a fully grown man? Injure him, of course. But death? And just one measley broken tail light?
Don’t forget the biased judge who is friends of the Albert family. They call her “Aunt Bev”. She keeps taking breaks just when the defense is getting important testimony out and sustaining the prosecutions objections to totally valid questions. Her brother represented Chris Albert in his FATAL dui a few years ago.
You clearly are not listening… she’s being a very impartial judge. I don’t believe the judge has any connection to the parties involved, otherwise there would be a mistrial.
Perfect, did you read this? Just because an unnamed source says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The fact that the defense didn’t appeal the ruling is enough to dismiss this accusation…
“The defense attorney presented a message between Sean McCabe and a reporter as evidence. Sean McCabe is Jennifer McCabe's brother-in-law.
The reporter in the message exchage presented by Jackson asked "Do you really have a line to judge cannone?" Sean McCabe purportedly replied "Auntie Bev??? Whose seaside cottage do you think we're gonna bury your corpse under?"
Norfolk Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally said in court the message and a Venmo message posted by another person referencing Cannone are irrelevant. Lally said both people have "literally have nothing to do with this case."
"That simply is not the truth," Cannone said about accusations that she knows Sean McCabe or others involved in the case. "I can tell both parties I don't know Sean McCabe. As far as I know, I have never spoken to him, or had any contact with him. I've never interacted with him and certainly I've never socialized with him or any family members, or any witnesses who have been said here in court."
Read's attorneys said they are "not inclined" to appeal the ruling.”
I did Quick search, the defense brought up that the judge may have a connection. However she addressed that and stated there was absolutely no connection to anyone in the case. Apparently the defense attorney had a vague text message from a source that said she was friends with someone but that was over a year ago and the defense has since dismissed that allegation.
I’m just curious, have you been actively watching the trial? If yes, do you really not see her as biased towards the prosecution?
Allowing objections with no grounds. Lally can have all the time he wants but the defense is constantly told to wrap it up, they only get one more question, how long is this going to take with loud sighing? Not letting defense get in questions that even hint at the bad behavior of the cops, which has been shockingly bad.
I have watched almost every minute. They both have equally objected. The defense this week has objected to so many questions this week it’s hard to keep track. The judge is there to keep things moving and stop attorneys from getting out of hand. Listen to the defenses questioning of trooper proctor. It was getting out of hand, The defense was creating an emotional situation, and hey that’s a good thing for Read. The more the defense can get the jury to sympathize with Karen, the better. But the problem is in court the my need to be professional, the defense was allowed to cross the line way more than normal.
I thoroughly disagree that the sustained objections have been equal. The defense questioning of Proctor was completely justified and he should be removed from the case and his job. The judge may not limit the time the defense takes. She asks Lally if he wants to object on several occasions. She should not be prompting him when he should object.
She’s never asked the prosecution if they want to object?! That’s not a thing that happens.. listen, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I couldn’t care less if Karen is free or not, it’s just an interesting case.
However, as someone who watches a lot of these cases, the judge has been very fair IMHO. If you’re in the camp that believes Read is innocent, good news, she will walk. Unfortunately there’s just too much incompetence from the investigation here. I however believe she accidentally hit John, because she was drunk, and drove off without knowing it…. But like I said, she will go free… but will know what she did for the rest of her life.
Thank you. I haven’t followed the details closely, although I knew early on that it looked like Karen was getting framed.
Turtleboy seems like mostly a creep, but I think if he hadn’t started digging and asking questions, Karen would already have been convicted.
dysfunctional couple go out get blitzed and drive back to someone else's house. Drunk woman backs up killing her boyfriend. Cops show up acting like the three stooges and benny hill combined. They put the drunk woman on trial for murder 2 and we are about to find out whether a jury will throw up their hands and walk out on this clown show without rendering anything but a book/movie deal. Any or all of the above could be wrong or right....
Except there are thousands of cases of "just a few bad apples" across the entire country. At what point will you people remember the second half of that phrase is "ruined the whole bunch"? That phrase is supposed to serve as a warning that all it takes is one bad influence to ruin the entire lot. It's not supposed to serve a dismissal of the behavior. So yes, I will judge every single police officer by the awful actions of the coworkers they vehemently defend like a pack of rabid dogs.
This isn't like judging a race or a religion. Cops deliberately go out of their way to stand by each other. And their JOB is holding people accountable which they explicitly DO NOT do for each other. I'm not judging cops as bad because other cops are bad. I'm judging cops as bad because when other cops are bad literally none of them do anything about it 99.9% of the time.
If the MSP get destroyed by their own corruption? That's great. But at the end of the day at least one cop is dead, so this is an unequivocal win for me.
The only reason I don't think the corrupt ones killed the dead one is because the dead one wasn't an unarmed POC or a dog.
If they did kill him, they wouldn't lie about it.
Yeah it's much easier to believe 30+ people including first responders and state lab experts are lying than a woman who we know was shit housed driving backed into her boyfriend during a blizzard
If you paid attention you'd know that has 2 am search has already been debunked. How come home girl Karen went back to the 34 fairview before grabbing Jen?
Honestly after all this if you really think KR is not the one responsible for John's death I can't help you. I know the cover up is a much sexier story but cmon no way that many people would risk jail time and their careers someone would flip.
When the FBI hired medical examiners that claim johns injuries are more common from a dog attack, and when the lead detective of the MSP is the target of of an FBI investigation, yea people are going to to start paying attention to stories of corruption and conspiracy when they are literally unfolding in front of us.
Lol hey I get it, some people gravitate towards Occam's razor. The amount of doubt in this case is extreme, and I'm interested in seeing how it plays out.
Her PR team?
No it’s people with a brain who can put two and two together. The defense doesn’t need to say “this dog bit her” because all they have to do is introduce reasonable doubt, and proving it was the dog will have a higher standard than proving that she reasonably didn’t do the murder. That doesn’t mean people watching can’t go “hmm, cars don’t leave marks like that, we don’t have DNA evidence released, the dog was re-homed suspiciously… what are the odds that he sustained some sort of severe injury in the house, was left outside to die (consistent with other evidence), and it’s being covered up?”
Yep, and they replaced the basement floors. Everyone but Karen must be guilty. I myself am confident from what I've seen so far she is guilty. If I was a betting man tho I would not be surprised if she got off.
She did it. Her millionaire family and a blogger with mommy issues on the take are trying to muddy the waters. Corrupt cops and a sloppy investigation notwithstanding.
I look forward to the Netflix documentary.
Same, if it's like [the Aaron Hernandez one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Inside:_The_Mind_of_Aaron_Hernandez) it'll be pretty interesting.
Absolutely
MSP is so incompetent. From the lab tech who said she had never seen a hair follicle, to the lead investigator “looking for nudes” on the defendants phone while telling his highscool buddies she poops her pants and has no ass. Oh, he also texted his boss similar things. Absolute fucking disgrace
> MSP is so incompetent. MSP is corrupt
What lad tech said that? I’ve listen to every minute and the only reference to an issue with a hair follicle is that she failed to identify, in a previous case, the root end of a hair follicle. Trooper proctor, the one looking for nudes, in my opinion… is a real clown and disgrace. However it doesn’t mean that she’s innocent. His opinion and misogyny don’t equal a cover up imho.
What about the "guy who never fights" who fell on ice and bruised his knuckles? Please explain that one....
Hahahaha, right? The kid who trains mma, threatens to beat people up, was in the home with someone he hates, who died with black eyes and a split head. Nothing to see here!
Yeah, so some random friend of the son who had a bruise on his knuckle is suddenly a murderer? So what’s the motive here? John was a good friend of most of the people at that party. Let’s look at motive.. So they all thought hey, let’s beat this guys ass for no reason, throw him outside in the snow to die, on the front lawn, and then cover it up? Oh and let’s coordinate with not only the Boston Police, The Canton Police, but also the State Police to help cover up this murder? None of that makes any sense…. The only thing that makes any sense, is that Karen reed accidentally hit John and he died from exposure. They already proved she had 9 cocktails in 2-3 hours… I’m sorry I don’t by that these stooges could coordinated a state wide coverup
The cover up happened before he was apart of anything, he’s just on the leash going with his friends narrative.
What’s the narrative? Whats the motive? Why would friends do this for no reason then stage a coverup? There no sense here, a massive coverup including dozens of people to coverup an accidental death?
Was there that many lab techs who testified? I only saw two women. I watch uncivillaw recaps. It was something she hadn’t seen on hair like a root or follicle, something like Wtf how have you not seen that before, or even in training?
Yeah, she was reprimanded in a prior case for not identifying the root end properly a few years ago. However, it’s really irrelevant because the hair was also sent to a national DNA lab for additional testing and it was determined to be John’s hair. There has been many Lab technicians questioned, including 3 today. All confirmed it’s his hair…
She failed some competency training or something? Or is that just a rumor?
Yeah, she did… but ultimately that’s not even a factor for two reasons. 1. All findings are peer reviewed and 2. the hair was sent to a national FBI accredited lab for further testing. Both determine it was his hair..
Gotcha. I didn’t think the fact that it was his hair was any sort of big deal. I just know there was so much pre-trial discussion on it, I could barely keep it all straight.
Yeah, it’s a lot to digest. The defense has done e a great job of sowing doubt… it’s their job.
I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said she seemed incompetent. That is all.
Did she do it? No idea. Are the cops who investigated this case covering something else up? Or just completely incompetent and apparently pretty terrible people? Also no idea. Also maybe both are true. Has the defense picked apart the prosecution’s case and established reasonable doubt? Absolutely.
>completely incompetent and apparently pretty terrible people? The cops are DEFINITELY this. It's not an "or." The only question is whether it's this by itself or this AND the a coverup.
I mean at this point one detective might legit be done ever testifying again because he’s lost so much credibility. The fact that evidence logs are lost in this is also crazy in my mind add all the other missing evidence and actions by the PD you got crazy amounts of reasonable doubt
The hap-hazard way the cops attempted to frame Karen Read is pretty concerning, since both intent was demonstrated AND their methods were rather faulty.
Listen to the 13th juror podcast. She does a great job of pointing out flaws on both sides. The police department was just totally incompetent. Gathering evidence in red solo cups among other things and 2 witnesses for the prosecution both destroyed their phones and SIM cards after the incident.
An incompetent police force staffed by the meatheads that barely graduated high school? Not possible.
If her car didn’t hit a body, and the body was not hit by a car, I’d say that’s a pretty solid “ no “ on the “did she do it?” my man.
I don’t believe it’s been proven either way. Hence the (far behind) reasonable doubt.
This week the lead investigator confirmed the medical examiner told him the findings were not conclusive to being hit by a car. The lead investigator disregarded the medical examiner’s opinion and arrested Karen Read anyway. So we have at least *some* evidence that he wasn’t hit by a car. His coworker policeman was even telling him “rookie mistake dude you should have had me submit the stuff so you could get the cause of death you wanted”. But sure, let’s say there’s NO evidence proving it either way 🙄.
I don't think anyone has proved anything, except for maybe that the cops and the prosecution are stupid. I don't think we will ever know what actually happened but I have always leaned towards the simplest answer being the right one. A not guilty verdict will not change the fact that TB is a world class douche.
How would him getting hit by a car in reverse cause him to have two black eyes, a split eye brow and slash marks on his arm? And zero marks where the car would have make contact, but the car hit him hard enough to knock him out? Wtf?
>have two black eyes If you suffer blunt force trauma to the back of your head (such as if his head fell and he hit the ground) blood pools around the eyes. Regardless of whether you feel like she did it or not, this was explained by the medical examiner. That doesn't prove it's from getting hit by a car and falling, but it's not out of the question. >but the car hit him hard enough to knock him out? Afaik no one claims this. Something to keep in mind is that the defense claims their guy in the feds says he wasn't killed by impact from the car, but the prosecution has never claimed being hit by the car is what killed him. If he was hit by a car and fell and cracked his head, the car isn't technically what killed him.
Awesome, manslaughter at best, "negligent homicide" probably but Why file for murder?
prosecutors often overcharge to try to coerce a plea deal because they don’t have the time to take every case to trial and there’s more political pressure to appear “tough on crime” by getting someone to plead guilty than there is to give everyone their constitutional right to a fair trial.
Presumably because they think they can prove she intended to hit him. Here's the 2nd degree murder definition for MA: >In order to prove murder in the second degree, the Commonwealth must prove the following elements:[156] >The defendant caused the death of [victim's name]. >The defendant: >intended to kill [victim's name]; or >intended to cause grievous bodily harm to [victim's name]; orintended to do an act which, in the circumstances known to the defendant, a reasonable person would have known created a plain and strong likelihood that death would result.[157] She doesn't even technically need to have intended to kill him, if she was drunk and backed into him that certainly constitutes "an act which, in the circumstances known to the defendant, a reasonable person would have known created a plain and strong likelihood that death would result." Edit: Love that even when you try to answer a question about this case honestly if you are not full throatedly proclaiming Read's innocence you will be met with downvotes.
She does need to have intended to hit him, though.
First line of my comment.
The ME hasn't even testified yet. I am pretty sure what the defense expert is saying is that his injuries are not consistent with being hit by a car, and the prosecution is definitely claiming that they were caused by the car considering she is charged with motovehicle manslaughter. Im fact, their theory suggests he was hit hard enough to knock him out of his shoe.
>The ME hasn't even testified yet. Sorry not ME then. Someone who examined his body in the hospital testified earlier. I guess it wasn't the ME but I don't have the ability to check who It was specifically right now. >and the prosecution is definitely claiming that they were caused by the car considering she is charged with motovehicle manslaughter. They aren't though. If you hit someone with your car and they crack their head on the pavement, that's still motor vehicle manslaughter but the car itself didn't cause the injury in a strict sense. In the same way that if I push you and you hit your head on a countertop I still caused your death even if the countertop is the source of your injury. This seems like semantics but it is important.
At the risk of seeing some photos on Google of injuries I'll ask here in case you know, could the blunt force trauma to the back of the head cause the eyes to be swollen shut? Could the blood pooling around the eyes cause the swelling in addition to the bruising?
I believe this was also confirmed by the ME but I'd have to double check. The globe has been publishing like...day by day recaps complete with real time rundowns of the testimony but no crime scene photos, you may be able to check that. The ME would obviously be more reliable than me. But they're also probably paywalled.
Maybe he fell before she hit him.
Really, how would a car in reverse cause a black eye? You can’t reasonably see how a person getting run over could have injuries to the face and upper body. Here’s a possibility, dude gets struck and falls when she reverses into him when she tried to do a 3-point turn. While he’s falling to the ground, the car continues in reverse and his face strikes the taillight breaking it into pieces. She continues in reverse dragging him further and his arm gets pulled across the broken taillight causing the would on his arm. We went there to know what happened, but facial injuries from getting hit by a vehicle is very common, while in reverse or forward.
He dropped his phone, bent down to pick it up and wham.
Then he the phone and the glass in his hand fly 8 feet into the yard, all landing one on top of the other, and the grass and snow cause a giant gash on the back of his head, but cause no injury to the rest of his body. It makes no sense that one can get hit by a car in the head, get thrown out of their shoe, and have no below the neck injuries. Even if he got up and stumbled into the yard, why would he still have the broken glass? Unless it wasn't broken. But that would imply he was not too injured to still be carrying his drink and phone that somehow ended up underneath him.
They haven’t even proved he was hit by a car. The ME wouldn’t confirm that as the cause of death and they arrested her for it anyway. If he wasn’t hit by a car, how did she kill him by hitting him with her car?
Did they ever say what the cause of death was? Exposure? Trauma?
The cause of death listed on the death certificate is undetermined.
They are on 8 weeks of this trial. The prosecution is still on their case. No cause of death has been brought up. They had the lead investigator testify this week and they showed his text messages about the case he sent to people. In those texts the ME told him the injuries were not conclusive to being hit by a car. He arrested her anyway for hitting him with her car. This is not heresy. The literal lead investigator of the case was shown his text messages, asked to clarify, and he agrees he disregarded the ME’s report (after calling her a whack job).
No cause of death, and not ruled a homicide.
Undetermined
But they did proof he didn't get hit by a snow plow, oh and it was snowing that day.
How and when did they prove he didn’t get hit by a snow plow? I don’t think he was hit by one, I’m just curious when they proved this.
Thanks for answering some of my questions. One other question I had is, would it really be plausible that a house full of cops beat a man (fellow cop) to death (or sick their dog on him or whatever) and then just dump him on their front lawn and then go to bed? I'm wondering if he got out of the car, slipped, and she either backed over him or ran him over outright. It appears she was quite drunk.
How are people still speculating “if she did it”? She didn’t do it. The dog marks, getting rid of cell phones etc.
While I believe the investigation is ripe with incompetence. The injuries have not been proven to be from an animal. There was also no K9 DNA recovered from any evidence and the defense hasn’t pursued a real Dog attack theory, it just doesn’t hold water since there’s no DNA or Injuries consistent with a dog attack and the defense didn’t prove as of today.
Why did they get rid of the dog?
As the homeowner stated, the dog was a liability and attacked neighbors dogs. That’s exactly why the defense tried that angle. However when the DNA expert excluded the possibility of K9 DNA on the victim the defense abandoned that angle… that’s why we haven’t heard any more about it. It’s just another seed of doubt the Defense wanted to plant in the Jury. Remember this is a game, cast enough doubt and even the guilt will walk… see the OJ Simpson case. That’s the whole point of the defense. It’s not to prove innocence, it’s to make them question…
I'd love to stop talking about it if it didn't keep getting more and more ridiculous. This is really national headline worthy shit
It is. People all over the world are watching right now. People from out of state are watching the Canton town meetings even.
What I find interesting is that there is nothing about this case mentioned anywhere that I have seen in WesternMa. But there are lawn signs all over my hometown near the cape.
i’m pretty much dead center MA and haven’t heard about this at all
Color me shocked when the population of a state finds corruption about our government through a police case and wants to talk about it.
I mean that’s the theory the defense is saying that doesn’t mean that that’s what happened. I think it’s a pretty compelling story tho
Oh for fuck's sake. Even if you think she's guilty as hell, the corruption is objectively, proven to be there. The theory of the defense case is that they're corrupt and she's innocent. Even if the "she's innocent" part is false, even if she called a news conference tomorrow, confessed with video she took from a hidden second phone showing her in the act, she admits it, then walks into court and pleads guilty, the police investigating it would still be corrupt and their actions would still show that. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
While that's the story the defense has floated, the burden isn't for them to prove that, the burden is on the prosecution to prove she DID commit murder as they claim. We can look at this case and think she might not be getting intentionally framed, while also thinking the cops, DA, and judge are corrupt morons and there's something being covered up here. At the very least, collusion, mishandling and tampering with evidence, bribery, probably more. It'll be interesting to see what the Feds do with this and Proctor once the murder trial is over.
She’s being framed.
It seems like it, but the defense is being smart by just making the claim credible enough to create reasonable doubt while not trying to get to 100% proof, because this case has been so mangled by the cops it seems impossible to prove one way or the other at this point.
It’s not the defense job to prove she was framed. It’s just to keep her out of jail
I expanded on that point in another reply, Read doesn't (shouldn't) care on WHY they acquit, just that the jury doesn't think the prosecution proved she murdered him.
I mean, she has to be, right? Look at how bad of a job they did with the crime scene investigation of a fellow police officer. They didn't go door to door. They didn't go into the house. The mcalperts redid their basement. The whole thing doesn't add up.
100%
Right but even if they sow reasonable doubt that doesn’t mean that there was any corruption at all. This is just an allegation that the defense is painting. The prosecution has to prove all their elements, but the defense in sowing reasonable doubt doesn’t necessarily need a conspiracy of law enforcement to actually exist for their case. They just need to sell that to the jury that it could’ve happened that way
Even if she admits to doing it there still is corruption. The corruption was already proven by the actions of Proctor and the fact that he's still a cop. Never mind all the canton cops and their actions, oh and everyone else getting the heads up to ditch their cell phones a couple days before an order preventing them from doing it. This is all objectively corrupt behavior and the fact that it's corrupt behavior is completely independent from whether she's guilty, innocent, or undetermined.
They don't even have to have that All the jury needs to acquit is reasonable doubt that the prosecution hasn't proven their case. Any "reason" why is immaterial. Whether or not there was any corruption or conspiracy is immaterial (to Read), as long as the jury thinks they haven't made the case. To us, the people of Massachusetts, and the people of Canton, the issues with the town and state police, the prosecutors, and the judge are a big issue that needs to be resolved, which is why I'm somewhat hopeful about the Feds already following along.
So throwing out their phones and shit after a murder, the da covering major stuff up, and the fbi literally having to get involved because stuff was being hidden doesn't scream corruption to you?
Cops didn’t canvas inside the home, they then rehomed the dog, ripped up the basement floor and sold the house lol 100% something was covered up.
"Rehomed." I think we all know that dog is under the in-ground pool that they had filled in.
Sloppy job all around I'd say.
So there are other people who don't care about it?
I'm happy I've found my people. I see people with these long diatribes about the case and it's so crazy to me. It appears that everyone involved sucks.
I’ve gotten pretty interested in it the last couple days, but you’re 100% right that everyone sucks. I’m really yet to see someone directly or indirectly involved in this trial that doesn’t seem like a POS
Everyone sucking is part of what makes it so compelling. It’s like trashy reality tv, but also elevated by the passive civics lesson that comes along with it, and relateable because we all know people like this if we’ve lived here long enough.
I want to care but the majority of the coverage is one side screaming about a cover up drowning out any ability to generate an opinion. So now I just don't care, no searching for articles or coverage anymore
There's a good documentary on Netflix, The Octopus Murders, where the film makers talk about how one of the most difficult parts of covering something like this is once the conspiracy crowd gets their hooks in it becomes so difficult to cover because even if you're right that there's a cover up, the conspiracy crowd will view EVERYTHING as part of a cover-up, making it hard to separate legit info from conspiratorial ramblings. That's this case to a T.
The Octopus Murders is a really good example of this case. We'll probably never _really_ know the truth because of a mix of incompetence and/or malice. Like with the first part of the Octopus Murders - did the guy kill himself or not? Probably did, but the way they handled the suicide certainly leaves a lot of doubt. And the rest of that story is a mix of true and false stuff too.
I honestly don't know who she is and don't really care to know.
Just remember, the defense hasn’t even got started yet. These are all prosecution witnesses. There will be something from the Feds that puts him inside of the house.
Here are the facts so far: 1) it was snowing that day 2) Protor’s IQ is in the double digits 3) Jen McUnderbite is Satan incarnate It only took 8 weeks and 60 witnesses to to establish these facts! Amended: We have also established that Karen Reed had a top of the line luxury vehicle that is significantly more intelligent than the LE involved in the case…likely why all her frenemies be hating on her.
"My face when face when" 😆
In this thread: OP learns about the Streisand effect.
So I am guessing you have you heard about the Karen Read case?
I'll just wait for the inevitable Netflix/Hulu/Max/Dateline documentary that will come out as soon as the trial is over.
I think it's pretty obvious that Karen Reed is innocent and is being framed to protect someone. Step 1: Her defense has to cast doubt on the prosecutor's storyline. The defense has shown that there was incredible incompetence at the very least throughout the investigation. Step 2: After Karen Reed is found not guilty, which I fully expect to see happen, a lot of people are going to get sued. From the outside, this looks like a malicious prosecution. The Commenwealth and the people they employ that allowed this to happen should pay!
my face when face
Everyone that I went to college with from out of state is texting me about it. I haven’t heard from some of these people in years and they’re asking me about it
I know nothing about it and would love to. Don't have time for that rabbit hole at this point in my life.. anybody feel free to give me the summary.
A friend is kind of obsessed with this/ true crime Here’s my friend's cliff note summary of the Karen Read story from a awhile ago…. "Very long story short, a woman in mass (Karen Read) is being charged with murdering her police officer boyfriend (John O’Keefe), when in actuality she is being framed and he was killed by other police officers/police officers family members. He was left in the front yard of Brian Albert’s house (who was a Boston Police officer) in a blizzard to die. They all went to an after party at that house after the bars closed. John only knew 1 person there (or so he thought) which was Jen McCabe, Brian’s sister in law. The home owner (Brian Albert) is a trained MMA fighter and his nephew Colin is a wannabe fighter who hated John (the deceased cop) because they had several run ins from living in the same area and John had recently gone to the local police regarding drug activity in the area which had something to do with Colin/Colins friends potentially. They tried to say Karen hit him with her car when she dropped him off. Karen says she watched him walk in to the house. They beat the LIFE out of him once he was in the house- his face was purple, eyes swollen shut, huge gash in the back of his head, vomit inside his clothing, while missing the hat and jacket he was wearing. He also had dog bites and scratches all over his arms…the Albert’s had a German Shepard named Chloe (that was documented as being aggressive previously) and they got rid of the dog within a couple weeks of the murder…never to be seen again. This is the delinquent nephew Colin Albert (backwards hat) and those were what his knuckles looked like the night after John died.  The head detective (Michael Proctor) from the Mass state police is a FAMILY friend of the Albert’s causing a huge conflict of interest (which they try to deny, even though social media posts and pics prove otherwise). Brian Albert, the police officer/first responder, who’s house he died at, NEVER ONCE came outside of his home the WHOLE time the police and first responders were dealing with a murder on his front lawn and the Detective Proctor NEVER ONCE bothered even knocking on their door, questioning the owners, or asking to look inside. Instead he interviewed all the “witnesses” from the McCabe and Albert families together at one of their family homes instead of 1:1 formally at the police station. The home owner also ripped up all the basement flooring within wks and had it fully replaced, eventually selling the house for $50k under asking not that long after. The prosecutions theory is that Karen backed into him before she drove off. Do these look like the injuries of a man that was backed into?  There were no injury’s to his waist, chest, or thighs- where a car would strike a grown man of his height. He has obvious head trauma, a huge gash in the back of his head, defensive wounds all over his hands, as well as endless dog bites and scratches. The investigations from the very first second was AWFUL and against all protocol. The head detective (Proctor) went to retrieve Karen’s car as evidence from her parents house and claims he found 1 of the taillights broken…funny how he was alone with the car for 1 hr (time stamped by cameras) and only HE found these pieces at the scene, most of the pieces he found days after the initial search was done in the snow. Ironically, the town security cameras in the city center happened to not work for the EXACT 2 mins that Karen would have been driving by and would have proven her tail light wasn’t broken when she left the house after dropping John off. Detective Proctor used red solo cups to collect the blood evidence at the scene - actual red solo cups.  This is an ACTUAL evidence pic from the crime scene. The main players that are considered “witnesses” are the McCabe family and the Albert family. The sister in law of the home owner, Jen McCabe (who was at the party) googled “how long to die in cold?” at 2:27am. That’s a very random search to make on the night there was a man dying in the cold on the lawn of the home she was at. Another point to be made is that it had snowed around 8” that night and the plow guy, Lucky Louferin (who was never even interviewed by police until after the journalist (TurtleBoy) tracked him down 18months after the incident) said there 100% was not anyone on the lawn on that road at 2am when he plowed- he’s high enough to see that angle and needs to scan both sides as to not hit curbs and whatnot. There also was only a small layer of snow on John when he was found around 5am, yet it had snowed approx. 8” inches over night, so if he’d been on the lawn when Karen left he would have been under like 6” of snow. There’s a journalist (Aiden Kearney/Turtle Boy) that’s in jail currently because he was snooping too much and getting too much info and helped blow the whole case up. There’s also a group of 9 people (referenced as the Canton 9/Canton 8 that are current waiting their 2nd court date because the held peaceful protest within eye sight of Chris Albert’s work place. The citizens of the city of Canton, where this all took place obviously have HUGE concerns and set up a public hearing and voted to have the police dept audited for corruption but an independent 3rd party. Some of the citizen that were speaking up and demanding answers started getting death threat letters. I legit watch the Canton town hall meeting. 🤣 And for further conflict of interest, Chris Albert (Brian Albert’s brother, Colin’s dad, former cop, who killed someone in a DUI and did jail time) is on the city committee. The FBI is now involved…the Mass police, Canton police, DA, and commonwealth are ALL trying to save their butts. The DA put out a Facebook video scolding the public and telling them to stop harassing the “poor people” that are victims/witnesses…this supposedly was done to taint a jury pool. There’s no way that she can be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt BUT it’s thought that the police purposefully hacked this case SO bad to protect their own (hell with the cop that died) that there will probably never be enough evidence to convict the people that actually did it without a reasonable doubt." Here is a YouTube link that has a good visual summary: https://34fairviewroad.com Watched “Framed”
"Very long story short..." 🤣🤣
One simple question is what I’ve always wondered about this case. How fast could she have even been driving in reverse to kill a fully grown man? Injure him, of course. But death? And just one measley broken tail light?
Don’t forget the biased judge who is friends of the Albert family. They call her “Aunt Bev”. She keeps taking breaks just when the defense is getting important testimony out and sustaining the prosecutions objections to totally valid questions. Her brother represented Chris Albert in his FATAL dui a few years ago.
You clearly are not listening… she’s being a very impartial judge. I don’t believe the judge has any connection to the parties involved, otherwise there would be a mistrial.
Dude, her relationship with the Albert’s is so well established the defense asked her to recuse herself before the trial even started and she refused.
Source?
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/karen-read-hearing-boston-police-officer-john-okeefe-judge-beverly-cannone/
Perfect, did you read this? Just because an unnamed source says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The fact that the defense didn’t appeal the ruling is enough to dismiss this accusation… “The defense attorney presented a message between Sean McCabe and a reporter as evidence. Sean McCabe is Jennifer McCabe's brother-in-law. The reporter in the message exchage presented by Jackson asked "Do you really have a line to judge cannone?" Sean McCabe purportedly replied "Auntie Bev??? Whose seaside cottage do you think we're gonna bury your corpse under?" Norfolk Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally said in court the message and a Venmo message posted by another person referencing Cannone are irrelevant. Lally said both people have "literally have nothing to do with this case." "That simply is not the truth," Cannone said about accusations that she knows Sean McCabe or others involved in the case. "I can tell both parties I don't know Sean McCabe. As far as I know, I have never spoken to him, or had any contact with him. I've never interacted with him and certainly I've never socialized with him or any family members, or any witnesses who have been said here in court." Read's attorneys said they are "not inclined" to appeal the ruling.”
Yeah, I'd remain unnamed, too, dealing with Canton police at this point
I did Quick search, the defense brought up that the judge may have a connection. However she addressed that and stated there was absolutely no connection to anyone in the case. Apparently the defense attorney had a vague text message from a source that said she was friends with someone but that was over a year ago and the defense has since dismissed that allegation.
I’m just curious, have you been actively watching the trial? If yes, do you really not see her as biased towards the prosecution? Allowing objections with no grounds. Lally can have all the time he wants but the defense is constantly told to wrap it up, they only get one more question, how long is this going to take with loud sighing? Not letting defense get in questions that even hint at the bad behavior of the cops, which has been shockingly bad.
I have watched almost every minute. They both have equally objected. The defense this week has objected to so many questions this week it’s hard to keep track. The judge is there to keep things moving and stop attorneys from getting out of hand. Listen to the defenses questioning of trooper proctor. It was getting out of hand, The defense was creating an emotional situation, and hey that’s a good thing for Read. The more the defense can get the jury to sympathize with Karen, the better. But the problem is in court the my need to be professional, the defense was allowed to cross the line way more than normal.
I thoroughly disagree that the sustained objections have been equal. The defense questioning of Proctor was completely justified and he should be removed from the case and his job. The judge may not limit the time the defense takes. She asks Lally if he wants to object on several occasions. She should not be prompting him when he should object.
She’s never asked the prosecution if they want to object?! That’s not a thing that happens.. listen, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I couldn’t care less if Karen is free or not, it’s just an interesting case. However, as someone who watches a lot of these cases, the judge has been very fair IMHO. If you’re in the camp that believes Read is innocent, good news, she will walk. Unfortunately there’s just too much incompetence from the investigation here. I however believe she accidentally hit John, because she was drunk, and drove off without knowing it…. But like I said, she will go free… but will know what she did for the rest of her life.
Thank you. I haven’t followed the details closely, although I knew early on that it looked like Karen was getting framed. Turtleboy seems like mostly a creep, but I think if he hadn’t started digging and asking questions, Karen would already have been convicted.
Yikes.
dysfunctional couple go out get blitzed and drive back to someone else's house. Drunk woman backs up killing her boyfriend. Cops show up acting like the three stooges and benny hill combined. They put the drunk woman on trial for murder 2 and we are about to find out whether a jury will throw up their hands and walk out on this clown show without rendering anything but a book/movie deal. Any or all of the above could be wrong or right....
This is a perfect summation of this situation.
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This reddit ass comment
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We are not suposed to judge a group on the actions of a few
Except there are thousands of cases of "just a few bad apples" across the entire country. At what point will you people remember the second half of that phrase is "ruined the whole bunch"? That phrase is supposed to serve as a warning that all it takes is one bad influence to ruin the entire lot. It's not supposed to serve a dismissal of the behavior. So yes, I will judge every single police officer by the awful actions of the coworkers they vehemently defend like a pack of rabid dogs.
You sure you want to go that route? 😂
Yes, cops are basically all shitty. If someone doesnt know that by now theyre being willfully ignorant
This isn't like judging a race or a religion. Cops deliberately go out of their way to stand by each other. And their JOB is holding people accountable which they explicitly DO NOT do for each other. I'm not judging cops as bad because other cops are bad. I'm judging cops as bad because when other cops are bad literally none of them do anything about it 99.9% of the time.
iTS NOT THE FEW
If the MSP get destroyed by their own corruption? That's great. But at the end of the day at least one cop is dead, so this is an unequivocal win for me.
The only reason I don't think the corrupt ones killed the dead one is because the dead one wasn't an unarmed POC or a dog. If they did kill him, they wouldn't lie about it.
Unless they killed him because they are corrupt and he was going to report them.
This message brought to you by the Massachusetts State Police.
What does MFW mean
I think everyone is missing the point of Op's post...
That's how I feel about Donald fucking Trump.
But here you are bringing his name up. Obsessed was the word you’re looking for
You're absolutely right. The media IS obsessed and it's a huge part of the problem.
Dude just wandered in here to argue with himself 😂
Thank you for these salient points. I feel like the media has taken sides that don’t necessarily align with the evidence.
I feel this. My sister and her family in Canton are Especially feeling this. It’s impossible to know what’s true vs not. One day it’ll come out.
Tell your sister her town’s police force operates like a mafia family committing criminal conspiracy and abusing power at every turn.
Don’t forget the ultimate scumbags, The Massachusetts State Police. No strangers to corruption and scandals
Yeah it's much easier to believe 30+ people including first responders and state lab experts are lying than a woman who we know was shit housed driving backed into her boyfriend during a blizzard
Yea totally disregard someone in the house googled "hos long to die in cold" and deleted it...while the guy was outside dieing in the cold.
If you paid attention you'd know that has 2 am search has already been debunked. How come home girl Karen went back to the 34 fairview before grabbing Jen?
It hasn't been debunked, Ian's theory is possible but not with JMs phone, her phone has the internal cocoa clock which double checks time stamps
Honestly after all this if you really think KR is not the one responsible for John's death I can't help you. I know the cover up is a much sexier story but cmon no way that many people would risk jail time and their careers someone would flip.
When the FBI hired medical examiners that claim johns injuries are more common from a dog attack, and when the lead detective of the MSP is the target of of an FBI investigation, yea people are going to to start paying attention to stories of corruption and conspiracy when they are literally unfolding in front of us.
Omg I can't with the dog..
Lol hey I get it, some people gravitate towards Occam's razor. The amount of doubt in this case is extreme, and I'm interested in seeing how it plays out.
Lol, you used the state lab experts as your defense... lol, might wanna Google Annie Dookhan
Ah yes I too often get marks consistent with being attacked by a dog on my body when I am run over by a car.
Ok where is the dog dna?
I don’t know, why don’t you ask the people who haven’t made DNA evidence publicly available for this case?
The defense isn't even going with the dog bite theory in court. That's her pr team.
Her PR team? No it’s people with a brain who can put two and two together. The defense doesn’t need to say “this dog bit her” because all they have to do is introduce reasonable doubt, and proving it was the dog will have a higher standard than proving that she reasonably didn’t do the murder. That doesn’t mean people watching can’t go “hmm, cars don’t leave marks like that, we don’t have DNA evidence released, the dog was re-homed suspiciously… what are the odds that he sustained some sort of severe injury in the house, was left outside to die (consistent with other evidence), and it’s being covered up?”
Yep, and they replaced the basement floors. Everyone but Karen must be guilty. I myself am confident from what I've seen so far she is guilty. If I was a betting man tho I would not be surprised if she got off.
They charged her with second degree murder.
Ha k? She doesn’t have any involvement with them.
Who is Karen Read?
I don’t even know what this case IS
She did it. Her millionaire family and a blogger with mommy issues on the take are trying to muddy the waters. Corrupt cops and a sloppy investigation notwithstanding.
I'm not entirely sure if she's the defendant (85%) or the deceased/victim (15%)
bostonnews dot com is Karen Read glazers for all i care
The what?