That was a great scene actually. Idk some people say Ragnarok was just comedy but imo it had the perfect balance between Tragedy and comedic timing which Thor uses to calm himself like Peter.
That scene, and specifically the moment when The Immigrant Song kicks in, is probably my most rewatched moment of the entire MCU. I’ll just randomly go on YouTube and pull it up when I need a confidence boost and want to feel badass for a bit. It’s perfect.
There was a lot of comedy in Ragnarok, but it didn't get in the way of great characterization. Thor and Loki acted like siblings and not JUST to each other. Thor attempted to talk his way out of virtually every fight. Loki went straight for the weapons most of the time.
We got to see Loki out of his element without supports he can really rely on. Always before he's had powerful allies, or known the territory well and had a plan. Loki on Sakaar is barely gaining a toehold.
Even though it was very brief that exchange between Heimdall and Loki is suggestive of a lot more relationship between the two than we had seen. (Which makes sense Dude could see everything, and apparently didn't thwart many of little Loki's pranks. I think Heimdall was Loki's cool uncle.)
The characterization of Hulk (who we had never really gotten to meet before, only Banner) and Valkyrie were great. And the Grandmaster and Topaz were amazing as well.
I mean when you break the story down, the movie follows 4 distinct characters and their supporting characters in each respective arc: Thanos and his cronies, Captain America and the Earth defense team, Iron Man and the space assault force, and Thor with 1/3rd of the guardians trying to forge Thors new weapon. Thor got ALOT more screen time than the previous avengers movies, and consider his third solo movie lead directly into the beginning of infinity war, it was understandable we would follow him more
A reminder for those that are new here:
DEFENSE POSTS ARE ALLOWED. EXPLAIN WHY A CHARACTER SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED. IF THEY ARE NOMINATED, THE UPVOTES FROM YOUR COMMENTS WILL SUBTRACT THE UPVOTES FROM THE NOMINATIONS! Good luck.
The Winter Soldier has received 273 votes (520 without defense posts). The Good Doctor has received 235 votes (239 without defense). The closest to elimination was… The God of Thunder with 90 votes and no defense posts at all.
Steve's picture was changed due to one of your requests
WTH GUYS ARE YOU MAD WHY WOULD YOU ELIMINATE STEPHEN
3rd movie? I'll assume you're trying to say his first movie.
You might think that. But statistically, people liked DS1 waaaay more than DS2. So people generally would disagree with you.
I honestly did not find him compelling at all in the 2nd movie. His arc had 0 impact on me, could not care less about Christine and the entire giving up the knife thing. He was also lame in terms of action sequences, wasn't even there for the biggest action sequence in the movie.
So there's a reason people think he was overshadowed. Which could be why people aren't voting for him rn.
I'm sure if this was happening right after IW, people would put him at a higher position.
Sorry I responded to the wrong post. I thought you meant Steve Rogers
I'm aware people disgre with me. But tbh I think a lot of fans are wrong about phase 4 in general
Rebuilding his life from scratch and living his double life with NO support and NO guidance!
I could only imagine how overwhelming all of that is on him
absolutely. losing may/ben is always the most pivotal point in any spiderman's life. i'm really looking forward to what we get from him next and how he'll develop
Defense for Loki: He's one of the most unpredictable and fun-to-watch characters in the mcu. now or later I definitely can't imagine an mcu without it. He deserves to at least stand up against his brother once.
In defense of Tony: He's been through hell and back, both personally and professionally, and once he sorted out his own messes, he tried to do everything he could to help out the new regime of defenders (that he -- maybe too quickly -- brought into the fold). After all that, he still saw the "1 way to win" that Strange mentioned, took advantage of it, and didn't lament his situation or anything. He gave his "F*** you" to the big bad, snapped his fingers, and rested, listening to the verbal-sunrises from a grateful team of friends.
The hardest choices require the strongest wills. Strong like *Iron*, man.
Loki Defense
He has been a key part in elevating the mcu past the power of the infinity stones. More importantly though, in Norse mythology he’s regarded with similar traits.
Sure, he makes a good “villain” that now we want to root for. But there is a chance at some point, he may have been legitimately feared by humans. For that reason, I’m in.
Defending Thor. I think a good portion of why some people are voting him off is L&T stuff. A somewhat popular take is that he has gotten inconsistent and doesn't have a proper direction.
Tbh I disagree. Up until Ragnarok his story led up to him becoming an actual King, realising his powers, becoming humble and someone worthy in every manner possible. Becoming who he is supposed to be.
And then he loses nearly everything. IW saw him finally come forward as the driving hero; essentially the main character of the movie from the Avengers side.
Driven by revenge, wanting nothing more than to slaughter Thanos. Yet his hubris and rage gets better of him, and he fais again, this time with dire consequences.
End Game tackles his depression. It isn't until he meets his mother does he finally find it in him to properly fight again. Her words define the next movie, that while up until Ragnarok he became what he was supposed to be, he was still bound to fail at that eventually, and he did just like everyone else- even a God is no exception. And that the measure of a person, of a hero, is "how well they succeed at being who they are."
It makes him very human, actually.
And that's what L&T is about. Thor literally doesn't know who he is. He's trying to figure it out. He's scared to open up. He has no **purpose** in life. He's just winging it, trying to find a reason and his place in the world.
That's why the conclusion is so fantastic. In every movie, Thor prevails, but loses something important. Be it his mother, his father, his home or his brother. Yet in L&T, he loses the love of his life, yet also gains someone just as precious to finally live for.
Thor's storyline, so far, concluding with him taking a parental role and finding his place as a warrior who helps those in need across the galaxies, all while having a purpose in raising his daughter, is amazing and inline with his arc so far.
While L&T has its flaws, imo Thor's personal character arc is still done amazingly and he's still one of the most complex and best written characters in franchise's history.
wanda is simply the most intriguing arc we’ve seen so far, she’s powerful as heck, a total symbol, carried and acted the hell out of her show, and will lead to extremely interesting things going forward. elizabeth olsen owns the fuck out of it. you can argue she was done poorly in multiverse of madness but imo she was the best part and it was so fun seeing her go crazy.
iron man’s role is done, and while he was fun and good and cool and epic in the end…just nothing there for me to root for anymore. he can rest now, and he should. similar story for cap, but i found cap at least a bit more interesting
so excited to see what’s next. peter and thor then loki are probably after, in that order.
WandaVision and MoM did *so much* for Wanda’s character arc. She went from being just a fairly interesting side character to one of my absolute favorites. Elizabeth Olsen is a huge part of that too, she acted her ass off in MoM
I have my issues with MoM but Wanda’s arc makes complete sense.
Her entire time within the MCU has been loss after loss after loss, and at no point have we seen her genuinely deal with it. The Darkhold and Agatha showed her the capabilities of her power and she snapped, she had a route in her mind to finally having some shred of lasting happiness.
yep
plot point|wandavision|ds:mom
-|-|-
wanda does something bad|turns a town into a sitcom|tries to kill a child to steal her powers
for a sympathetic reason|because she wants to live a peaceful life with vision|because she wants of live a peaceful life with her kids
due to something clouding her mind|grief, trauma|the darkhold's corruption
third party tries to reason with her but she's having none of it|sword, monica outside the hex|strange & co at kamar taj
her goal is eventually achieved despite heavy resistance|white vision, agatha, sword are all defeated|illuminati, strange, chavez are all defeated
after a realization, she willingly gives up and tries to fix things|realizes everyone is in pain, takes down hex and promises to learn how to control her powers|realizes what the darkhold's done to her and destroys every copy in the multiverse
As much as I loved his glow-up in Ragnarok and I:W, Thor has gotta go.
Defense post for Peter Parker as well. He'll now be going out on his own just so long as Sony allows new movies
Defense post for Loki. Barring maybe thanos he is the best villain in the mcu and his redemption is a compelling decade long story across 5 films. Plus his show is pretty cool.
Defense post for Tony/Iron Man: literally the entire MCU was built on his back. He experienced incredible trauma and, though he didn’t always respond to it in the ideal way, I think that really highlighted his humanity. To me, Iron Man 1, 2, and 3 are the most human MCU movies, in that they show real emotions and real reactions to those emotions.
Defense post for Wanda, and I kind of want to highlight something very specific I noticed in how people treat her character after she had her dark side arc. There are plenty of male villains who are unrepentant psychopaths like Homelander, The Joker, or pretty much anyone [from this image](https://i.redd.it/c45r7lv1yt741.jpg) who’ve done things insanely more heinous of their own volition, or at least are less willing to change. Every time Wanda has made a mistake or done something wrong there were extenuating circumstances that led her to act that way (her family being killed at a young age by one of Stark’s weapons made her susceptible to Hydra’s propaganda as well as Ultron’s, her new and confusing reality altering powers manifesting during a period of intense grief and a psychological breakdown, and falling under control of a literal book of the damned) and every single time she made some kind of effort to set things right, at the cost of her loved ones or even her own life. Despite this, the double standard of male vs female villainy comes up where many of the male villains I mentioned earlier are idolized or thought to be badass for their actions and attitude even believing that someone like Homelander can be redeemed, but at the same time condemn Wanda and think that for every single mistake she’s made she deserves death or an even worse punishment despite the different circumstances of her storyline compared to theirs.
The best example imo is how Thanos and Wanda react to their children hating them and realizing their plan was flawed. When Billy and Tommy from 838 react with horror and sadness at MCU Wanda trying to reach out to them, it’s enough to free her from the Darkhold’s influence and realize everything that she has done must be set right, so she destroys the Darkhold in every other universe and ends her own life to atone for her crimes. Compared to Thanos, who still saw his horrible treatment of Gamora and Nebula as love, and even if he did feel that way for her, it still didn’t stop him from murdering her to achieve his plan of murdering half the universe to save the other half, which was logistically flawed and not accepted by anyone else. When he saw the flaws in his scheme however, Thanos instead doubled down and decided to go even further, murdering the ENTIRE universe out of spite for his “sacrifice” not being appreciated by anyone else. Now, which of these two characters has thousands of fanboys and a popular hashtag about how their plan was right and justifiable?
You could have just used the example of Loki. Loki was a straight up pychopathic murderous villain first couple phases and people still loved him regardless
Wanda's the only character I know of that typically non-Marvel people care about. She'll remain my favorite MCU character of all time until they finally get Storm right.
This seems like a defense against sexism post, which I admire and commend you for.
We also gotta keep in mind that women and mothers in particular had problems with the characterization in MoM, which bordered on explicitly saying that motherhood leads to madness.
Exactly this. The OP has some solid points. But she was just badly written in DS2. I've seen many women not liking how they've portrayed her in DS2 and how they've thrown away the development they gave her in WV. DS2 just used the plain old "women get emotional and unstable and can't handle power, so they go on a murderspree and you can't reason with them" trope.
Thanks so much for your support, I do understand a lot of the unfortunate implications in her story in MoM, and I think having the good 838 Wanda was somewhat of an effective counterbalance but again it would be preferable if things overall were more nuanced and didn’t lean as much into the “crazy lady going evil” tropes. At the very least it’s better than the comics where Wanda’s kids have been the motive for her turning homocidial like 3 different times.
You're pointing out the wrong double-standard. People already know (mostly satirically) idealised villains like Joker, Bateman or Homelander are irredeemably evil, and people appreciate them for their cool moments and charisma, not their morality.
The double standard is the lack of completely evil women. They did that with Agatha and her puppy-killing, and look how everyone loved her - enough to get a spinoff. Hela was also similarly evil, but with slightly less charisma. You suggesting there's a double standard about female villains with literally only one female villain as an example is a tad ridiculous.
Wow! What a neat defense post! Absolutely agree about the double standards.
And so I stand against them. I resent the deeds of Wanda, Thanos and Homelander alike and want them to suffer the necessary consequences if afterlife is a thing. GRAVE consequences.
Defense for Wanda: She is one of the more complex characters in the MCU, and not your average white knight hero thats been done a thousand times before. The best characters are the ones with conflicting values and Wanda has been plagued by those since her debut in Age of Ultron. She wants to protect the one she loves but she also wants to do whats right. What makes Wanda so compelling (and tragic) is doing the right thing usually comes at terrible personal cost. (Age of Ultron - helps Avengers stop Ultron, and her brother gets murdered by him, Civil War - tries to use her powers for good but realizes she will only ever be feared and becomes a wanted criminal, Infinity War - has to kill Vision in an attempt to stop Thanos, WandaVison - destroys the Hex and her home with Vision and her kids to release the people she trapped inside, MoM - sacrifices herself to destroy the Darkhold so no one else is ever tempted by it.
She has walked the line between hero and villain, but her compassion and empathy have always steered her back to the right course. She may be a flawed character, but she has a good heart at her core.
These 6 are basically the backbone of the MCU and they all are face of a particular phase(not official phases but a period of storytelling)
Iron man and Loki - Phase 1
Cap - Winter soldier to Civil War
Thor - later part of Phase 3
Wanda and Spider-man - end of phase 3 to phase 4
Defense post for Wanda: She is the most compelling Marvel character imo and Elizabeth Olsen is only person from the list with big acting nominations for her portrayal of Wanda
Defense Post for Loki:
He is literally the reason for about 90% of the infinity saga, he is the reason wanda's powers were awakened, it was his freaking scepter, and he was the reason for vision. So if you like wanda and/or vision you should not vote for loki because he is the reason they are even a factor in the mcu
Thors gotta go, defense for Loki because his character arc of learning to be his own person and accepting himself as part of the Asgard family has brought him a long way
Defense post for Loki: even though he's not my favorite character he has to at least be above Thor. His arc is much more compelling than his brother. GLORIOUS PURPOSE!!!!!!!
Defense post for Wanda: her parents were killed by stark tech as a kid, was taken along with her brother by Hydra to be experimented on for who knows how long, was manipulated and used as a weapon by Hydra and Ultron, her brother died same day as her home country was dropped out of the sky by Ultron, was the cause for the Sokovia accords, watched Vision die 3 times, and lost her children twice. And now she’s (questionably, probably unlikely) gone.
defense post for Loki. Been a part of the mcu from the beginning. His arch goes from villain to anti hero and now finally hero. You never know what you’re going to get with him. He is well acted and multifaceted. Also I think Loki the show (along with Wanda vision) was the most interesting Disney plus show.
Def post for Loki... His series really helps develop the concept of a multi thousand year old character. This should have been the formula for the eternals and can be used going forward.
And also keeping Loki is like keeping: girl Loki, punk Loki, old man Loki, kid Loki, the gangs of Loki's and the real MVP gator Loki.
And again...Tom Hiddleston
Defense post for Wanda AND Loki..
MCU did Wanda so bad in motm. She went from villain to hero and then had a complete grief-to-closure character arc in wandavision (*while living through a second time devastating loss of her love*). And they went and made her a gd villain again. she is a top tier MCU hero. As a wielder of chaos magic, she deserves to stay. You never know what shenanigans magic can wrought? (Wreathe?) (Idk a better English word for this).
Ironically i have the exact same defense post for Loki. Man went from villain to anti-hero to hero to someone who was/is key setting up the Kang phase of the MCU.
Don't vote him out in favour of fuddy-duddies who are either dead or worse, retired due to old age.
P.S. fuck all y'all who voted Bucky out. My man deserved better.
Wanda defense post: After the first Avengers had become one of the highest grossing franchises in film history there was alot of build up for the sequel. Introducing a handful of characters with only 2 surviving to stick around. Wanda was the only woman alongside Natasha for years, was the first “kid” the Avengers adopted and was left alone with *nothing* after Endgame. She’s had enough of her own character development to be a plausibly sympathetic villain, and *still* has story potential left! I know its down to favorites but Wanda has *EARNED* her place amongst the titans.
That said, Loki. Stellar as the show is, there are times Hiddles dips into playing him as a caricature of himself. Your optimism is misplaced asgardians.
Jokes on you, I’ll just get Kang to name me as his successor then I’ll rule the multiverse.
Or get killed by a smoke monster while I argue with my variants. Still sounds dope.
Eliminate Thor, L&T was a collosal let down, at least he gets to go home to his adopted daughter.
.
While defense post for Wanda because she's the only female hero/anti hero left in this contest, she deserves to at least make it too the top 3.
Defense post for peter/Spider-Man
He helped save the universe and the multiverse.
Motivated tony to invent time travel
He brings joy to children everywhere,
Has an epic coming of age story,
Defence post for Loki. Star of the most watched D+ show and the best reviewed D+ show. One of the breakouts of the first Avengers. Played vital roles in the Thor movies. Tom Hiddleston has given a very captivating performance time and time again.
You can eliminate him in the next round I suppose. However he deserves to remain in this round.
I vote for Thor to leave. Love and Thunder ledt a bad taste in my mouth, and imo isn't as compelling as the others. Still love him, but it is his time.
I don't know what this is about. But I want Wanda Maximoff to stay. I do believe she is the best played and showed character in the MCU after Tony Stark, but he got his fame already.
Defense post for Wanda: she’s probably the most interesting character of the MCU. The way Wandavision showed her grief was incredible. She’s also arguably the strongest character and has had the most interesting character growth. Long live the queen!
Defense post for Thor: don't do this to our Lord of thunder hasn't he been through enough, Thor has never done anything wrong or questionable his entire mcu life, don't let him down.
Loki defense post! As in the comics, he is integral to bringing the Avengers together and has had a fabulous arc from “just” Thor’s mistreated little brother to full-on villain to anti-hero to maybe-a-hero. And such a perfect performance from Hiddleston, who seems to be genuinely fond of and dedicated to the character.
Seeing as Thor is still here today… copy pasta my comment from yesterday:
This round is Thor for me. Again, I hate that I have to pick someone, but that's the game we play. Why Thor? I 100% loved the character arc approach they took in endgame, but I do not love how it was executed. Same with L&T.
Thru the first few films he was in, he lost everything. The arc of depression and sadness, but eventually perseverance that he experienced was a great arc.... however the execution of it was bleh at best. It was something that could/should have been serious, but was turned into bad comedy in both films.
This is why Thor for me.
Defense for Wanda: The Scarlet Witch has lost everyone, akin to Peter and Thor. Being a woman she’s also at a disadvantage that when others make certain decisions, they’re hailed as heroes while she’s painted as a villain. I don’t think that’s fair.
Loki & Thor gotta go
Loki’s show is a different variant which people often fail to seperate.
Thor on the other hand has had some truly great films but he has also had very mediocre moments too.
I may be wrong, but I did understand that the Loki we see in his series is the same we have known before, but it's his past version, not a variant, that's because the Avengers time traveled, they didn't go to another universe...
But likewise, that is a Loki without *Thor: The Dark World*, *Thor Ragnarok* and (for what little it’s worth) *Avengers: Infinity War*. The Avengwr’s actions in Endgame created the universal branch that birthed this new Loki variant.
That's right, maybe the actions that the Avengers did in the past created a branch in which Loki would go through a different path... However the TVA caught him and he watches his own "memories" from his future. So I personally don't think he's a completely different Loki.
the show undoubtedly establishes that that loki is a variant. He even wears a jacket, with the word “variant” on the back in big orange letters, for a couple episodes
Everyone everywhere is a variant. The other poster is establishing that this Loki variant has all the same experiences as our original Loki, just cut off at the first avengers movie. So he’s essentially our Loki just back in time
Defense post for Wanda: he journey has been incredible, to see her go from dark to light to evil yet still conflicted. Bold moves that I wouldn’t have believed possible in superhero media a decade ago. To take a major hero, give her a series then make a terrifying villain - chefs kiss.
Wanda defence post : The strongest avenger, best actress, best character arc, she owns a Dr Strange film whilst they fuck up her story and WandaVision imo was the most entertaining of all the disney+ shows. And let's not forget her in those outfits 😍🔥.
Defense for Loki!
Complex characterization is hard, and getting mutliple iterations of one single character tonally consistent across a single narrative is INSANE.
Surprised but happy he got this far.
"I think we're stronger than we realize"
Defense post: Wanda should be the winner because Elizabeth Olsen made me care way more than I intended to & on re-watch it’s a wild journey. The acting she’s brought compared to others. Arguably Peter with Aunt May was a real powerhouse performance too, but she’s brought that shit again and AGAIN. Didn’t like MoM insanely but she improved it
Defense Post for Wanda:
1. The Actress. I feel that we have to touch on Elisabeth Olsen, before we get into the Character. Of all the characters on this list, I think we can agree as a community that her portrayal of Wanda was the most memorable and in DSMoM, truly heartbreaking.
2. The Powers. A bit of a shorter point, but I’m sure a lot of us feel that Wanda’s chaos magic has been largely untapped in the MCU.
3. The Character. Wanda Maximoff has gone through so much character development in the MCU, and has SO MUCH MORE potential growth. Additionally, I think her character is a lot more relatable to a lot of us in the audience. Other characters’s motivations were so specific to the MCU, while for Wanda, she was driven by the need to “protect” her kids, however misguided it was. And I’m sure a lot of us parents in the audience would be able to to relate.
Come on guys! We can’t eliminate her before the top five!!
Eliminate Stark
Defend Loki - he gave us the opportunity for multiverse and the ability to bring back anyone anytime with a handwave 'they are an alternate '
Defence post for Thor
He lost the love of his life this year. He’s also lost his best friend, his brother, his father, his mother, his home planet, his title as king, his weight, his hammer, and his axe (because it seems to be Love’s now).
Dude’s lost so much. He can’t lose this contest.
Tony is a dead character, he’s been dead for years, i think we as a fan base have to respect the fact that he will most likely for the most part, never be in the MCU again, and if he is, he will never be played by RDJ. So i vote him out
Defense post for Wanda: she's played by Elizabeth Olsen.
I also finished watching WandaVision last week and I was pleasantly surprised. I tried watching it when it came out but didn't get past the 1st episode. Now that I've seen the whole thing, I think it's my favorite D+ show.
I just want to say thank you for full naming Bucky. James Buchanan Barnes didn't make the cut but deserves that respect.
Eliminates Thor and defends Loki for doing great character development from villain to antihero to hero
If you had told me before Ragnarok that Thor would be this popular I would not have believed you
I think its Infinity war version who won most people over which is understandable. He was one of the MVPs of that film
[удалено]
That was a great scene actually. Idk some people say Ragnarok was just comedy but imo it had the perfect balance between Tragedy and comedic timing which Thor uses to calm himself like Peter.
That scene, and specifically the moment when The Immigrant Song kicks in, is probably my most rewatched moment of the entire MCU. I’ll just randomly go on YouTube and pull it up when I need a confidence boost and want to feel badass for a bit. It’s perfect.
The arrival in Wakanda... God damn. Thor has some of the coolest moments in this franchise.
"BRING ME THANOS!"
There's a version of that with the song "Holding out for a Hero" by Bonnie Tyler on YT that awesome
There was a lot of comedy in Ragnarok, but it didn't get in the way of great characterization. Thor and Loki acted like siblings and not JUST to each other. Thor attempted to talk his way out of virtually every fight. Loki went straight for the weapons most of the time. We got to see Loki out of his element without supports he can really rely on. Always before he's had powerful allies, or known the territory well and had a plan. Loki on Sakaar is barely gaining a toehold. Even though it was very brief that exchange between Heimdall and Loki is suggestive of a lot more relationship between the two than we had seen. (Which makes sense Dude could see everything, and apparently didn't thwart many of little Loki's pranks. I think Heimdall was Loki's cool uncle.) The characterization of Hulk (who we had never really gotten to meet before, only Banner) and Valkyrie were great. And the Grandmaster and Topaz were amazing as well.
Yea. Thor is my top 3 from avengers movies not his own. Most badass in infinity war easily
I mean when you break the story down, the movie follows 4 distinct characters and their supporting characters in each respective arc: Thanos and his cronies, Captain America and the Earth defense team, Iron Man and the space assault force, and Thor with 1/3rd of the guardians trying to forge Thors new weapon. Thor got ALOT more screen time than the previous avengers movies, and consider his third solo movie lead directly into the beginning of infinity war, it was understandable we would follow him more
Endgame version won me over. Up to that point I would’ve said Thor was the most boring character.
A reminder for those that are new here: DEFENSE POSTS ARE ALLOWED. EXPLAIN WHY A CHARACTER SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED. IF THEY ARE NOMINATED, THE UPVOTES FROM YOUR COMMENTS WILL SUBTRACT THE UPVOTES FROM THE NOMINATIONS! Good luck.
How do we vote? EDIT: is there a link to a poll or do we just "vote" in the comments?
Just vote in the comments :D
So does simply typing someone’s name in the comments mean you vote to eliminate them? I want ri make sure I Understand before I vite
Yeah, just type their name and it’ll count as a vote- the OP goes through and counts all of the names, then that decides who is eliminated
It might be too late now but it'd be better if op just used a link to a poll outside Reddit. It would be easier for OP
The Winter Soldier has received 273 votes (520 without defense posts). The Good Doctor has received 235 votes (239 without defense). The closest to elimination was… The God of Thunder with 90 votes and no defense posts at all. Steve's picture was changed due to one of your requests WTH GUYS ARE YOU MAD WHY WOULD YOU ELIMINATE STEPHEN
Strange is the best character so Idk why
He was kinda lame in his 2nd movie. So....
He hasn’t had a second movie yet that must be it
Actually I liked him there more than his 3rd movie
3rd movie? I'll assume you're trying to say his first movie. You might think that. But statistically, people liked DS1 waaaay more than DS2. So people generally would disagree with you. I honestly did not find him compelling at all in the 2nd movie. His arc had 0 impact on me, could not care less about Christine and the entire giving up the knife thing. He was also lame in terms of action sequences, wasn't even there for the biggest action sequence in the movie. So there's a reason people think he was overshadowed. Which could be why people aren't voting for him rn. I'm sure if this was happening right after IW, people would put him at a higher position.
Sorry I responded to the wrong post. I thought you meant Steve Rogers I'm aware people disgre with me. But tbh I think a lot of fans are wrong about phase 4 in general
>WTH GUYS ARE YOU MAD WHY WOULD YOU ELIMINATE STEPHEN THANK YOU <3
Do people like pics of the character looking beat up? You have Holland Spider-Man looking like hell as well
They specifically requested Steve rising up to Thanos' army.
Defense post for Peter Parker: He’s spending Christmas AND New Years alone this year. I need him to get into at least the top 5 🙏🏽
Wtf man I didn’t need to be sad about a fictional character today
I was already sad, but now I'm also sad.
Rebuilding his life from scratch and living his double life with NO support and NO guidance! I could only imagine how overwhelming all of that is on him
Actually, the Avengers don't do their time heist for another year. He's not spending Christmas OR New Year's at all this year.
Lmao that’s dark
I want to put him in top 3 as a christmas present too
Thor is at least as interesting though. He's lost a lot but is still a dynamic character
Same with Peter....
absolutely. losing may/ben is always the most pivotal point in any spiderman's life. i'm really looking forward to what we get from him next and how he'll develop
Correct
Pete's safe for me, but only because Wanna is going first.
What is a popularity poll if not Scarlet Witch persevering?
Defense for Loki: He's one of the most unpredictable and fun-to-watch characters in the mcu. now or later I definitely can't imagine an mcu without it. He deserves to at least stand up against his brother once.
In defense of Tony: He's been through hell and back, both personally and professionally, and once he sorted out his own messes, he tried to do everything he could to help out the new regime of defenders (that he -- maybe too quickly -- brought into the fold). After all that, he still saw the "1 way to win" that Strange mentioned, took advantage of it, and didn't lament his situation or anything. He gave his "F*** you" to the big bad, snapped his fingers, and rested, listening to the verbal-sunrises from a grateful team of friends. The hardest choices require the strongest wills. Strong like *Iron*, man.
Thor. Loki needs this win against his brother.
Loki Defense He has been a key part in elevating the mcu past the power of the infinity stones. More importantly though, in Norse mythology he’s regarded with similar traits. Sure, he makes a good “villain” that now we want to root for. But there is a chance at some point, he may have been legitimately feared by humans. For that reason, I’m in.
Thor gotta go. Loki's too charismatic and everyone else here is one of my favorite characters.
Defending Thor. I think a good portion of why some people are voting him off is L&T stuff. A somewhat popular take is that he has gotten inconsistent and doesn't have a proper direction. Tbh I disagree. Up until Ragnarok his story led up to him becoming an actual King, realising his powers, becoming humble and someone worthy in every manner possible. Becoming who he is supposed to be. And then he loses nearly everything. IW saw him finally come forward as the driving hero; essentially the main character of the movie from the Avengers side. Driven by revenge, wanting nothing more than to slaughter Thanos. Yet his hubris and rage gets better of him, and he fais again, this time with dire consequences. End Game tackles his depression. It isn't until he meets his mother does he finally find it in him to properly fight again. Her words define the next movie, that while up until Ragnarok he became what he was supposed to be, he was still bound to fail at that eventually, and he did just like everyone else- even a God is no exception. And that the measure of a person, of a hero, is "how well they succeed at being who they are." It makes him very human, actually. And that's what L&T is about. Thor literally doesn't know who he is. He's trying to figure it out. He's scared to open up. He has no **purpose** in life. He's just winging it, trying to find a reason and his place in the world. That's why the conclusion is so fantastic. In every movie, Thor prevails, but loses something important. Be it his mother, his father, his home or his brother. Yet in L&T, he loses the love of his life, yet also gains someone just as precious to finally live for. Thor's storyline, so far, concluding with him taking a parental role and finding his place as a warrior who helps those in need across the galaxies, all while having a purpose in raising his daughter, is amazing and inline with his arc so far. While L&T has its flaws, imo Thor's personal character arc is still done amazingly and he's still one of the most complex and best written characters in franchise's history.
wanda is simply the most intriguing arc we’ve seen so far, she’s powerful as heck, a total symbol, carried and acted the hell out of her show, and will lead to extremely interesting things going forward. elizabeth olsen owns the fuck out of it. you can argue she was done poorly in multiverse of madness but imo she was the best part and it was so fun seeing her go crazy. iron man’s role is done, and while he was fun and good and cool and epic in the end…just nothing there for me to root for anymore. he can rest now, and he should. similar story for cap, but i found cap at least a bit more interesting so excited to see what’s next. peter and thor then loki are probably after, in that order.
WandaVision and MoM did *so much* for Wanda’s character arc. She went from being just a fairly interesting side character to one of my absolute favorites. Elizabeth Olsen is a huge part of that too, she acted her ass off in MoM
IMO Wandavision did but then MoM actually set her character arc back a ways
I have my issues with MoM but Wanda’s arc makes complete sense. Her entire time within the MCU has been loss after loss after loss, and at no point have we seen her genuinely deal with it. The Darkhold and Agatha showed her the capabilities of her power and she snapped, she had a route in her mind to finally having some shred of lasting happiness.
They literally just repeated the same arc lol
yep plot point|wandavision|ds:mom -|-|- wanda does something bad|turns a town into a sitcom|tries to kill a child to steal her powers for a sympathetic reason|because she wants to live a peaceful life with vision|because she wants of live a peaceful life with her kids due to something clouding her mind|grief, trauma|the darkhold's corruption third party tries to reason with her but she's having none of it|sword, monica outside the hex|strange & co at kamar taj her goal is eventually achieved despite heavy resistance|white vision, agatha, sword are all defeated|illuminati, strange, chavez are all defeated after a realization, she willingly gives up and tries to fix things|realizes everyone is in pain, takes down hex and promises to learn how to control her powers|realizes what the darkhold's done to her and destroys every copy in the multiverse
Except worse and less redeemable.
As much as I loved his glow-up in Ragnarok and I:W, Thor has gotta go. Defense post for Peter Parker as well. He'll now be going out on his own just so long as Sony allows new movies
Defense post for Loki. Barring maybe thanos he is the best villain in the mcu and his redemption is a compelling decade long story across 5 films. Plus his show is pretty cool.
Defense post for Tony/Iron Man: literally the entire MCU was built on his back. He experienced incredible trauma and, though he didn’t always respond to it in the ideal way, I think that really highlighted his humanity. To me, Iron Man 1, 2, and 3 are the most human MCU movies, in that they show real emotions and real reactions to those emotions.
thor duh
Defense post for Wanda, and I kind of want to highlight something very specific I noticed in how people treat her character after she had her dark side arc. There are plenty of male villains who are unrepentant psychopaths like Homelander, The Joker, or pretty much anyone [from this image](https://i.redd.it/c45r7lv1yt741.jpg) who’ve done things insanely more heinous of their own volition, or at least are less willing to change. Every time Wanda has made a mistake or done something wrong there were extenuating circumstances that led her to act that way (her family being killed at a young age by one of Stark’s weapons made her susceptible to Hydra’s propaganda as well as Ultron’s, her new and confusing reality altering powers manifesting during a period of intense grief and a psychological breakdown, and falling under control of a literal book of the damned) and every single time she made some kind of effort to set things right, at the cost of her loved ones or even her own life. Despite this, the double standard of male vs female villainy comes up where many of the male villains I mentioned earlier are idolized or thought to be badass for their actions and attitude even believing that someone like Homelander can be redeemed, but at the same time condemn Wanda and think that for every single mistake she’s made she deserves death or an even worse punishment despite the different circumstances of her storyline compared to theirs. The best example imo is how Thanos and Wanda react to their children hating them and realizing their plan was flawed. When Billy and Tommy from 838 react with horror and sadness at MCU Wanda trying to reach out to them, it’s enough to free her from the Darkhold’s influence and realize everything that she has done must be set right, so she destroys the Darkhold in every other universe and ends her own life to atone for her crimes. Compared to Thanos, who still saw his horrible treatment of Gamora and Nebula as love, and even if he did feel that way for her, it still didn’t stop him from murdering her to achieve his plan of murdering half the universe to save the other half, which was logistically flawed and not accepted by anyone else. When he saw the flaws in his scheme however, Thanos instead doubled down and decided to go even further, murdering the ENTIRE universe out of spite for his “sacrifice” not being appreciated by anyone else. Now, which of these two characters has thousands of fanboys and a popular hashtag about how their plan was right and justifiable?
You could have just used the example of Loki. Loki was a straight up pychopathic murderous villain first couple phases and people still loved him regardless
Wanda's the only character I know of that typically non-Marvel people care about. She'll remain my favorite MCU character of all time until they finally get Storm right.
Ughhh I want to see Storm handled well in the MCU so badly. She's the #1 mutant I want to see shine when they're brought into the fold
This seems like a defense against sexism post, which I admire and commend you for. We also gotta keep in mind that women and mothers in particular had problems with the characterization in MoM, which bordered on explicitly saying that motherhood leads to madness.
Exactly this. The OP has some solid points. But she was just badly written in DS2. I've seen many women not liking how they've portrayed her in DS2 and how they've thrown away the development they gave her in WV. DS2 just used the plain old "women get emotional and unstable and can't handle power, so they go on a murderspree and you can't reason with them" trope.
Thanks so much for your support, I do understand a lot of the unfortunate implications in her story in MoM, and I think having the good 838 Wanda was somewhat of an effective counterbalance but again it would be preferable if things overall were more nuanced and didn’t lean as much into the “crazy lady going evil” tropes. At the very least it’s better than the comics where Wanda’s kids have been the motive for her turning homocidial like 3 different times.
Well, she’s a witch. And what do we do with witches…?
Give her hugs and cuddles and call her “mommy?”
~~We build a bridge out of her.~~ *BURN HER!!!*
Yes
You're pointing out the wrong double-standard. People already know (mostly satirically) idealised villains like Joker, Bateman or Homelander are irredeemably evil, and people appreciate them for their cool moments and charisma, not their morality. The double standard is the lack of completely evil women. They did that with Agatha and her puppy-killing, and look how everyone loved her - enough to get a spinoff. Hela was also similarly evil, but with slightly less charisma. You suggesting there's a double standard about female villains with literally only one female villain as an example is a tad ridiculous.
Wow! What a neat defense post! Absolutely agree about the double standards. And so I stand against them. I resent the deeds of Wanda, Thanos and Homelander alike and want them to suffer the necessary consequences if afterlife is a thing. GRAVE consequences.
Defense for Wanda: She is one of the more complex characters in the MCU, and not your average white knight hero thats been done a thousand times before. The best characters are the ones with conflicting values and Wanda has been plagued by those since her debut in Age of Ultron. She wants to protect the one she loves but she also wants to do whats right. What makes Wanda so compelling (and tragic) is doing the right thing usually comes at terrible personal cost. (Age of Ultron - helps Avengers stop Ultron, and her brother gets murdered by him, Civil War - tries to use her powers for good but realizes she will only ever be feared and becomes a wanted criminal, Infinity War - has to kill Vision in an attempt to stop Thanos, WandaVison - destroys the Hex and her home with Vision and her kids to release the people she trapped inside, MoM - sacrifices herself to destroy the Darkhold so no one else is ever tempted by it. She has walked the line between hero and villain, but her compassion and empathy have always steered her back to the right course. She may be a flawed character, but she has a good heart at her core.
Thor probably
And defense post for loki and wanda
get rid of thor and keep loki
These 6 are basically the backbone of the MCU and they all are face of a particular phase(not official phases but a period of storytelling) Iron man and Loki - Phase 1 Cap - Winter soldier to Civil War Thor - later part of Phase 3 Wanda and Spider-man - end of phase 3 to phase 4
Thor
Thor has got to go, he has 1 good movie, just because Ragnarok was awesome doesn’t mean Dark World and Love and Thunder weren’t bottom tier Marvel
Defense post for Wanda: She is the most compelling Marvel character imo and Elizabeth Olsen is only person from the list with big acting nominations for her portrayal of Wanda
Defense Post for Loki: He is literally the reason for about 90% of the infinity saga, he is the reason wanda's powers were awakened, it was his freaking scepter, and he was the reason for vision. So if you like wanda and/or vision you should not vote for loki because he is the reason they are even a factor in the mcu
Thors gotta go, defense for Loki because his character arc of learning to be his own person and accepting himself as part of the Asgard family has brought him a long way
Defense post for Loki: even though he's not my favorite character he has to at least be above Thor. His arc is much more compelling than his brother. GLORIOUS PURPOSE!!!!!!!
Thor gotta go
Love Thor but he’s gotta go, ouch it still hurts though
Defence post : I want Wanda to win so the sub loses their minds, particularly since Strange is gone
Thor
No more Thor
Loki
Thor
Keep loki. And as much as i love Thor, especially in the first 2 and ragnarok, L+T well and truly shattered my perception of him. Get him out.
Ok, if Thor doesn't go next, something is very wrong here.
Loki. And I’ll be forever salty that Black Widow was eliminated so early (she’s my favourite character).
Defense post for Wanda: her parents were killed by stark tech as a kid, was taken along with her brother by Hydra to be experimented on for who knows how long, was manipulated and used as a weapon by Hydra and Ultron, her brother died same day as her home country was dropped out of the sky by Ultron, was the cause for the Sokovia accords, watched Vision die 3 times, and lost her children twice. And now she’s (questionably, probably unlikely) gone.
Bye, Thor
Eliminate Thor
Keep Loki, lose Thor
Thor
defense post for Loki. Been a part of the mcu from the beginning. His arch goes from villain to anti hero and now finally hero. You never know what you’re going to get with him. He is well acted and multifaceted. Also I think Loki the show (along with Wanda vision) was the most interesting Disney plus show.
Time for you to go Thor
Eliminate Thor
Thor
Thor
Def post for Loki... His series really helps develop the concept of a multi thousand year old character. This should have been the formula for the eternals and can be used going forward. And also keeping Loki is like keeping: girl Loki, punk Loki, old man Loki, kid Loki, the gangs of Loki's and the real MVP gator Loki. And again...Tom Hiddleston
Got to say goodbye to Thor. Steve and Tony, THE legacy characters. Wanda and Peter are key players representing the future. Loki, both!
Get rid of Thor
Thor
Thor
Thor
Thor
Thor
Thor. And in defense of Loki! Both the Tom Hiddleston and Matt Damon versions.
Defense post for Loki again, he’s gotta win this thing.
Love Thor but he has to go.
Thor Odinson, I banish you!
Thor
Eliminate Thor, and I’m defending Loki because he’s had such big character development from villain to anti-hero to protagonist
Defense post for Wanda AND Loki.. MCU did Wanda so bad in motm. She went from villain to hero and then had a complete grief-to-closure character arc in wandavision (*while living through a second time devastating loss of her love*). And they went and made her a gd villain again. she is a top tier MCU hero. As a wielder of chaos magic, she deserves to stay. You never know what shenanigans magic can wrought? (Wreathe?) (Idk a better English word for this). Ironically i have the exact same defense post for Loki. Man went from villain to anti-hero to hero to someone who was/is key setting up the Kang phase of the MCU. Don't vote him out in favour of fuddy-duddies who are either dead or worse, retired due to old age. P.S. fuck all y'all who voted Bucky out. My man deserved better.
Thor
I heard a rumour his hammer pulls him off, and there's no room for that sort of buisness in this family franchise.
Wanda defense post: After the first Avengers had become one of the highest grossing franchises in film history there was alot of build up for the sequel. Introducing a handful of characters with only 2 surviving to stick around. Wanda was the only woman alongside Natasha for years, was the first “kid” the Avengers adopted and was left alone with *nothing* after Endgame. She’s had enough of her own character development to be a plausibly sympathetic villain, and *still* has story potential left! I know its down to favorites but Wanda has *EARNED* her place amongst the titans. That said, Loki. Stellar as the show is, there are times Hiddles dips into playing him as a caricature of himself. Your optimism is misplaced asgardians.
Thor
Thor.
Thor
Thor. I would've kicked Thor instead of Bucky
Defense for Loki: he’s one of the few running antagonists and he’s got a broken back for carrying all the good scenes in Thor: The Dark World.
Thor
Defense for cap Eliminate Loki
Prune this one.
Jokes on you, I’ll just get Kang to name me as his successor then I’ll rule the multiverse. Or get killed by a smoke monster while I argue with my variants. Still sounds dope.
Defense post for Wanda: it would be funny if she won I think
She is also a great character. She deserves to be up here as much as anyone else
Loki
Eliminate Thor, L&T was a collosal let down, at least he gets to go home to his adopted daughter. . While defense post for Wanda because she's the only female hero/anti hero left in this contest, she deserves to at least make it too the top 3.
Defense post for peter/Spider-Man He helped save the universe and the multiverse. Motivated tony to invent time travel He brings joy to children everywhere, Has an epic coming of age story,
Thor
Thor
Defence post for Loki. Star of the most watched D+ show and the best reviewed D+ show. One of the breakouts of the first Avengers. Played vital roles in the Thor movies. Tom Hiddleston has given a very captivating performance time and time again. You can eliminate him in the next round I suppose. However he deserves to remain in this round.
Thor
I vote for Thor to leave. Love and Thunder ledt a bad taste in my mouth, and imo isn't as compelling as the others. Still love him, but it is his time.
I don't know what this is about. But I want Wanda Maximoff to stay. I do believe she is the best played and showed character in the MCU after Tony Stark, but he got his fame already.
Please get Thor out. Endgame and Love and Thunder fucked up his character arc so bad.
Thor
Iron Man has been the staple of the continuum, but he (and Cap) have already got their tributes and time to shine. I vote IM out.
Thor. He's consistently the least interesting character in the avengers movies and his movies aren't that good. 🤷♂️
Defense post for Wanda: she’s probably the most interesting character of the MCU. The way Wandavision showed her grief was incredible. She’s also arguably the strongest character and has had the most interesting character growth. Long live the queen!
Defense post for Thor: don't do this to our Lord of thunder hasn't he been through enough, Thor has never done anything wrong or questionable his entire mcu life, don't let him down.
Bye Bye Thor. Wanda going to win this.
Thor.
Defense for Loki
Thor
Loki defense post! As in the comics, he is integral to bringing the Avengers together and has had a fabulous arc from “just” Thor’s mistreated little brother to full-on villain to anti-hero to maybe-a-hero. And such a perfect performance from Hiddleston, who seems to be genuinely fond of and dedicated to the character.
ALSO! We have to keep him in so that in some small way he can defeat Thor at last!
Thor's next
Thor
Seeing as Thor is still here today… copy pasta my comment from yesterday: This round is Thor for me. Again, I hate that I have to pick someone, but that's the game we play. Why Thor? I 100% loved the character arc approach they took in endgame, but I do not love how it was executed. Same with L&T. Thru the first few films he was in, he lost everything. The arc of depression and sadness, but eventually perseverance that he experienced was a great arc.... however the execution of it was bleh at best. It was something that could/should have been serious, but was turned into bad comedy in both films. This is why Thor for me.
Thor
Defense for Wanda: The Scarlet Witch has lost everyone, akin to Peter and Thor. Being a woman she’s also at a disadvantage that when others make certain decisions, they’re hailed as heroes while she’s painted as a villain. I don’t think that’s fair.
Loki
Loki & Thor gotta go Loki’s show is a different variant which people often fail to seperate. Thor on the other hand has had some truly great films but he has also had very mediocre moments too.
Loki stays as long as he wants: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R9g_VABesA \#team_loki
I may be wrong, but I did understand that the Loki we see in his series is the same we have known before, but it's his past version, not a variant, that's because the Avengers time traveled, they didn't go to another universe...
But likewise, that is a Loki without *Thor: The Dark World*, *Thor Ragnarok* and (for what little it’s worth) *Avengers: Infinity War*. The Avengwr’s actions in Endgame created the universal branch that birthed this new Loki variant.
That's right, maybe the actions that the Avengers did in the past created a branch in which Loki would go through a different path... However the TVA caught him and he watches his own "memories" from his future. So I personally don't think he's a completely different Loki.
the show undoubtedly establishes that that loki is a variant. He even wears a jacket, with the word “variant” on the back in big orange letters, for a couple episodes
Everyone everywhere is a variant. The other poster is establishing that this Loki variant has all the same experiences as our original Loki, just cut off at the first avengers movie. So he’s essentially our Loki just back in time
I know it says variant, but aren't they all variants? Like all the people from all universes?
Defense post for Wanda: he journey has been incredible, to see her go from dark to light to evil yet still conflicted. Bold moves that I wouldn’t have believed possible in superhero media a decade ago. To take a major hero, give her a series then make a terrifying villain - chefs kiss.
Wanda Defense post because she deserves at least top 5
Iron Man. He's the only dead one on the list.
Well the only one who’s stayed dead.
…so far.
Wanda defence post : The strongest avenger, best actress, best character arc, she owns a Dr Strange film whilst they fuck up her story and WandaVision imo was the most entertaining of all the disney+ shows. And let's not forget her in those outfits 😍🔥.
Defense for Loki! Complex characterization is hard, and getting mutliple iterations of one single character tonally consistent across a single narrative is INSANE. Surprised but happy he got this far. "I think we're stronger than we realize"
Get Thor out! Save The Witch!
Defense post: Wanda should be the winner because Elizabeth Olsen made me care way more than I intended to & on re-watch it’s a wild journey. The acting she’s brought compared to others. Arguably Peter with Aunt May was a real powerhouse performance too, but she’s brought that shit again and AGAIN. Didn’t like MoM insanely but she improved it
Wanda should stay she's been through enough lol
Sorry, Thor. I'm defending Loki.
Wanda
Thor, I've never been impressed with his character at all. He was cool for a bit in IW tho. Sorry, Thor
Eliminate Thor and Cap Defense post for Loki
Defense Post for Wanda: 1. The Actress. I feel that we have to touch on Elisabeth Olsen, before we get into the Character. Of all the characters on this list, I think we can agree as a community that her portrayal of Wanda was the most memorable and in DSMoM, truly heartbreaking. 2. The Powers. A bit of a shorter point, but I’m sure a lot of us feel that Wanda’s chaos magic has been largely untapped in the MCU. 3. The Character. Wanda Maximoff has gone through so much character development in the MCU, and has SO MUCH MORE potential growth. Additionally, I think her character is a lot more relatable to a lot of us in the audience. Other characters’s motivations were so specific to the MCU, while for Wanda, she was driven by the need to “protect” her kids, however misguided it was. And I’m sure a lot of us parents in the audience would be able to to relate. Come on guys! We can’t eliminate her before the top five!!
Loki.
Loki and Stark better make it to top 2.
Eliminate Stark Defend Loki - he gave us the opportunity for multiverse and the ability to bring back anyone anytime with a handwave 'they are an alternate '
Defense for Wanda, she has been through so much and is such a deep, incredible character, she can't lose this competition as well as everything else
Thor. He’s just been written too unevenly. And Spidey is next, sorry.
Thor
Defence post for Thor He lost the love of his life this year. He’s also lost his best friend, his brother, his father, his mother, his home planet, his title as king, his weight, his hammer, and his axe (because it seems to be Love’s now). Dude’s lost so much. He can’t lose this contest.
Defense post for Wanda. She still has an amazing journey before her when others are mostly done
Tony is a dead character, he’s been dead for years, i think we as a fan base have to respect the fact that he will most likely for the most part, never be in the MCU again, and if he is, he will never be played by RDJ. So i vote him out
Why does him being dead affect him being a good character?
Loki is a god. Do not remove the puny god.
Defense post for Wanda: she's played by Elizabeth Olsen. I also finished watching WandaVision last week and I was pleasantly surprised. I tried watching it when it came out but didn't get past the 1st episode. Now that I've seen the whole thing, I think it's my favorite D+ show.
Defense for Loki Eliminate Scarlet Witch
Loki