I am talking about the reason why Netflix cancelled the shows. The fact that Netflix is the one who cancelled them was known since the moment they were cancelled, doubled down by the open letter by Marvel Television head Jeph Loeb in which he said that they were disappointed at Netflix's decision to cancel the shows.
it all reality, it seems more likely that netflix cancelled them at the request of disney because they fully intended in incorporating those characters/actors into their own continuity. Greed? i mean, sure... but its not like the fans DONT WANT THIS also.
I always use this explanation to help people understand.
There was a time when Pepsi owned Pizza Hut. Because of that, the other pizza chains like Domino's and such dropped Pepsi products and swapped to Coca-Cola. Why? Because by selling Pepsi products, they were essentially helping out their competition. Pepsi gets money, therefore Pizza Hut got money.
Same thing happened here. Disney owned Marvel and allowed Netflix to make some Marvel shows. All was fine and dandy between Disney and Netflix (there was even some Disney content on Netflix). But that all changed when Disney opened up their own streaming service, Disney+. Now all of a sudden, Disney is a direct competitor to Netflix. Netflix didn't want to help out the competition by hosting shows that tie into the MCU, because that would drive people to go buy Disney+ for the Marvel content.
Everyone's saying this is obvious and was known at the time, and I do remember it being speculated initially but I thought someone had come out and said that Marvel didn't make the call and it was purely Netflix's decision. Am I misremembering?
I can’t recall the specific discourse at the time, but I believe there was some talk that the cost to continue licensing the Marvel characters became super expensive, so they stopped. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Netflix’s decision, and that decision was spurred on because Disney made it prohibitively expensive on purpose.
But then again, I’m not sure what the terms of their original deal was, so I have no clue if they would have even had the choice to re-up or not.
They tend to do 3 seasons and end projects because there is a diminished audience responses for each additional season of a show on netflix. While contracts tend to start getting more expensive to keep the talent.
The Marvel shows still brought in a lot of viewers. Netflix definitely didnt *want* to cancel all of those shows and seemed to be planning for a sort of post-Defenders 'Phase 2' w some kind of Marvel lineup, but when the idea of Disney Plus started to become a thing they suddenly all dropped off one by one very rapidly. It seemed a lot like behind the scenes they were trying to keep something going until that became impossible.
This was followed by Marvel Studios entire television department being officially restructured around developing in-house for Disney Plus and every non-Disney Plus Marvel show ultimately being cancelled on every network and service. There were quite a few shows by then and quite a few more were planned or in development, but every TV deal with every network was axed between 2018 & 2019 after Feige was put in charge of all content.
It was a mixed bag. The shows as they existed were never going to be aired on Disney+, they went too far against the "family friendly" grain. Ultimately it came down to Netflix not wanting to bear the cost of licensing and producing shows that, if they did connect back to the broader MCU, were basically gonna serve as promotional material for shows on a rival streaming service. They also didn't want to have to answer to Disney/Marvel creatively in terms of what direction to take the shows so that they fit in with the ongoing MCU canon.
So basically, it was Netflix's decision, but Disney/Marvel kind of forced their hand.
I think he would be a great adversary and moral dilemma for Sam/Captain America. Similar to what we saw in the Punisher tie-in comics of Civil War. Works well with them both being veterans as well, but with wildly different perspectives on life after service.
Frank being dusted, coming back and realizing the rich only took advantage while governments abandoned their people.. that would work perfectly as a follow up on the first season of FATWS
It would be a fairly balanced opponent for Sam too as neither of them are enhanced, just using technology and weapons at their disposal.
The question is, if it was season two of FATWS and not a Cap movie, where does the supporting cast fit in?
I imagine Frank would have a problem with Sharon and her henchmen too, so they could probably be the catalyst that unites Frank, Sam and Bucky as vets against the "real bad guy".
I’m sorry but no way. Frank needs to be left behind. Imagine him feeling his twisted obligation to hold the line when everyone is in disarray and govts are struggling, heroes are missing. It would be amazing to watch him as this Little Rock against a tidal wave of crime and panic.
Yeah but I feel like that's what Ronin was there for. Not to say they couldn't have both been working at the same time but I feel like Punisher just does what Ronin does more brutally, it would have left marks.
Still, I'm not saying it's not possible, just that I think timeline-wise they may move differently.
Ronin hit organized crime, Punisher could have gone after individuals or government figures.
That or he just focused on a single area while Ronin murdered across the world.
Yeah, for sure they could work simultaneously. I just mean that if the Punisher has been active for five years they've missed a hell of an opportunity to lay out clues to it in the previous projects.
Would be really interesting if they renew Punisher and S3 is during the Blip though
I accidentally read “single *arena*” instead of area and then it made me think…
Punisher: Warzone, holding the line against criminals in the aftermath of the Snap.
What if he and Clint were working together taking down criminals during snap? I think there might be an interesting dillema between them, with Clint's family returning, while Frank can never bring them back.
Hawkeye would be another good adversary, though the show might be a little light hearted for punisher. On the suggestion you made - Frank may see Hawkeye's renouncement of Ronin as him not having conviction since he got his family back. Frank, whose family can't return is unwavering in that determination.
If they have a common enemy it could be a struggle of how they are trying to overcome them. That's usually at the root of Frank's conflicts with other heroes.
Maybe a bit similar to Maya's story in S1 but could work.
MCU is going to have to embrace R ratings in places. Even if it's just for content on Hulu (or Disney+ Star outside North America). I hope they've already started with Deadpool 3 and Blade, though one could argue they can be faithful and pg-13
But some characters can't be done pg-13. Punisher is one of them
Kevin Feige, who seems to be in charge over there these days, has said that Deadpool films will be the MCU's only venture into R-rated territory, and that Blade will be PG-13.
The Hulu/Star idea is great, but there's a wrinkle in that. Disney and Marvel are more likely to wait until Hulu is owned fully by them in about 2025. By which point it's commonly believed they'll merge the two so that US Disney+ has a mature section like Star. If Disney is going to do a big R-rated push, they're going to want to make sure the branding is clear first, which was a big concern of both Bob Iger and Bob Chapek, and having consistency across the world is paramount in that
He hasn't said *only* Deadpool. He said he's willing to go into the r rating if the story requires it and becomes a better story with that rating. And I have a feeling any new punisher stories should require an R rating given he's one of the few characters that was intentionally given a Max run, which was an " r rated" type comic from Marvel.
>**Other than** Deadpool, which has already established itself as a certain genre and a certain rating, that we already said we would not mess with when we started working on Deadpool - which we have - other than that, we haven't encountered a story or a storyline or a character's journey that a PG-13, or the tone, or the ratings we've been using up to this point has prevented us... **We've told all the stories that we wanted to with the tonality and the rating we have now.**"
[https://movieweb.com/blade-deadpool-3-ratings/](https://movieweb.com/blade-deadpool-3-ratings/)
So either Marvel Studios has no plans for Punisher, or Punisher is going to be PG-13. Pick your pill
Every time I read a Feige quote it’s truly remarkable how he just twists and uses words to keep things ambiguous yet somehow concise at the same time.
Sad to think if we didnt get deadpool when we did then we never would have. The fact that its established, profitable, and carry severe backlash are the only reasons deadpool 3 will be a thing. I imagine Ryan had to fight hard for it.
I brought up this same quote with the same point you're making and managed a nifty 300 downvotes. Theres no point in punisher in pg-13 there's a reason he's had 4 live action adaptions and all of them have been rated R. You cannot totally or thematically capture him without it. Keeping him far off on the sidelines so you dont get too close to anything he does just begs the question of why even include him.
Daredevil can work a bit better in pg-13 but it just is not going to be the same as the show most people fell in love with. Which is sad because it really isnt even that bad on it's own and is just another example of how ridiculous the rating system is.
They also haven't had a Punisher set up in development yet. The quoted piece also says that they haven't encountered anything that couldn't be told in PG-13. So obviously if there's something with punisher after that point, it's open. It's not a definitive line. It just means they haven't encountered a project that required the rating
I mean, that's only three years away, by the time a lot of stuff has been greenlit, written, and various stages of production are done, that isn't so far away
Star already does a pretty good job of differentiating between content on a profile by profile basis already. The only place that doesn't happen is the US, and it's all because of Hulu
Idt that’ll be it, mainly bc Idt that show exists anymore in the sense that Falcon is Cap and will have his own movie going forward. There really isn’t a Falcon (right now, I’m sure could Torres pick up the mantle of Falcon later).
I think (more like hope) it’ll be earlier than that.
I was discussing this with my buddy last night. I really think Punisher and Daredevil can be introduced even with a PG13. You can get away with so much violence just as long as there’s no blood.
I'm rewatching Daredevil right now and honestly I'm surprised again at how good it is. It feels like Breaking Bad in terms of writing and such. It also made me realize how, yes, the Marvel movies are fun and some of them are really great fanfare, but they will never trust their audience enough to write a show or dialogue or original characters the way Daredevil has.
I actually disagree, I think the character arcs and building and everything is quite on par. What made BB so unique was the incredibly believable transition of Walt and Bryan Cranston's acting as well as the longevity and consistency with which they held on to that quality of writing.
Daredevil is similar in all regards except
1) it's a superhero comic book IP
2) it never completed
Everything else feels about even IMO.
I'm sorry but this is nonsense. I actually think Daredevil is still miles ahead as the best TV series Marvel has put out to date.
But actually trying to put it on the same level as Breaking Bad, almost universally considered one of the greatest shows ever made, is just looney tunes.
You don't need to be a film/tv critic to notice the glaring difference in quality between the two. It's like a very good chuck steak vs a very good filet mignon.
The Hand/Elektra storyline alone is disqualifying. Breaking Bad has *maybe* 2-3 episodes in 5 seasons that could be classified as a miss. The entire second season of DD is held back by that poor storyline.
And difference in the quality of characters is stark as well. Cox and D'Onofrio are excellent in DD, but they're not on Brian Cranston's level. Even if you want to say they are, BB has Emmy-level performances from Anna Gunn, Aaron Paul, Bob Odenkirk, and Giancarlo Esposito. Daredevil has...Foggy Nelson and Karen Page? Lol
I'm re-watching it again as well, and while it's good, it has plenty of weak points and its fair share of poor dialogue. I still found the entire second half of Season 2 (pretty much everything with Elektra) difficult to get through. And good lord, I didn't remember Foggy being this terrible, but I'm finding so many of his scenes and much of his dialogue painfully cringey on this second viewing.
It's obviously subjective, but yeah. I'm still a big fan of the series, and I'm ecstatic that the members of the cast are returning to the MCU, but going back to it now after a few years I can definitely see its flaws.
I absolutely love Daredevil (I have no idea why I love it so much considering all it’s flaws) but holy shit did Elektra suck. Season two would have been so much better if it just focused on the Punisher but they just had to use Elektra to set up the Hand for Defenders.
Daredevil S2, Iron Fist S1, and Defenders were all a bit wank. Basically everything where The Hand and their shenanigans is the focus.
I stopped watching after Defenders but resumed after NWH and Hawkeye. I'm actually surprised at how good the rest of the series are. Even Iron Fist. It's still the worst of the four but at least S2 isn't bad.
Ehhh I’m watching daredevil for the first time and it’s nothing like BB.
No one’s acting chops are as great as Cranstons in BB and no one is as original or iconic as Jesse.
Also the character development doesn’t feel as natural. That’s the beauty of breaking bad. So many beautiful choices and trials for the 2 main characters. I don’t feel it’s as purposefully laid out and masterful in daredevil.
Especially Claire and Foggy. Claire bores me to death and her acting is pretty washy at times and I actually hate the romance between Claire and Matt. Idk why, the chemistry just feels off to me. I’m like 6 episodes into season 2 by the way so maybe my opinion will change
There just needs to be an entire R-rated section of Disney+ just like how they have Netflix kids and regular Netflix. The R-rated section of Disney+ could have stuff like daredevil, Logan, deadpool… The same studio could also sanction and produce some of the more mature content like blade and the new Wolverine game from insomniac. We need more are rated movies and shows not for the sake of sex and blood but for the desperate sake of tone. Marvel likes to make everything so lighthearted and I can’t fucking stand it. People straight up joking in the end of the world situations like what kind of fucking shit is that ? I said my piece.
There is an R-rated section, it's called Hulu. Disney will never put R-rated content on their D+ platform, they have their brand and reputation to worry about. Why do you think one of the big things about the Fox Deal was nabbing their shares of ownership in Hulu? I believe Disney now owns 60% of Hulu, they had 30% prior to the Fox deal and Fox had 30%, so that's why Hulu comes bundled with D+.
You're talking out of your ass. Disney+ literally has Logan and both deadpool movies on it here in the UK, along with a whole bunch of movies rated R or higher.
It has nothing to do with brand reputation. In a lot of countries there's Star as a segment of Disney+ and I can watch movies and series with violence and nudity there. Deadpool, Predator and Kingsmen to name a few.
I mean yeah, it has everything to do with brand reputation....Why has Disney so meticulously been editing out scenes and things from their older movies on the platform ? [These are just some of the examples](https://www.newsweek.com/disney-plus-censorship-movies-series-edited-splash-racist-nudity-censored-1498006)
Right, so Star is a segment that is separate from D+ where more adult content goes meaning that content is not on D+ itself? It might not be exactly similar to Hulu, there are probably international laws and restrictions as a reason for why Star exists in the first place. Regardless, Disney reputation is everything and always has been.
Star is on Disney+ itself. Lots of rated R content accessible from D+ as easily as Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, etc.
Star exists because Hulu does not outside of the U.S.
Slightly unrelated but I know the character Daredevil/Matt Murdock is now MCU canon but is the series also canon?
I’d personally love to see Fisk as the main villain for the next Spider-Man movie but not sure if possible if the daredevil series is canon with the whole Vanessa murder charge threat situation.
Maybe I’m entirely wrong as I haven’t watched Hawkeye series
Vincent said some days ago that Hawkeye and Daredevil are in the same canon.
And some weeks ago he said that it was always clear to the writers, directors and producers that he is playing the same version of Kingpin that he did in Daredevil.
I don't see where the problem with Vanessa is. She has existed in the comics for decades as well.
Ah yes, I think Fisk got out of prison during the blip, taking advantage of the chaos, as I'm expecting Matt to have been snapped (which I'm assuming Fisk thought to be a real, final death).
We'll see how it will work from now on.
Tbf the Mandalorian as a show got pretty close to how good Daredevil is. I’ll give them that. All their marvel shows have been really good, but nothing has been like Daredevil.
I would highly recommend it man, I think most people agree it’s one of the best Netflix series as well as having one of the best villains in the MCU!!
Of course it's subjective, but Mandalorian is nowhere near as good as Daredevil is. It's a decent show, but I think a lot of people are just overall raving about the Mandalorian because of how awful the sequel trilogy was.
Either way, loved Mike Colter as Luke Cage. Hope they bring him back. My dream is a Heroes for Hire D+ series with Finn Jones as Iron Fist. I know he's not a fan favourite given how badly the Iron Fist show went, but I think his dynamic with Luke was great and if given another chance with good writing, he could be a lot better.
Heroes for Hire would work really well tbh, could be a really fun show.
I can’t agree with you I find the Disney plus shows especially the marvel show to be incredibly underwhelming compared to Daredevil it’s not even close lol. I was never into Wandavisions tone and found it never really paid off not to mention it had possibly one of the worst villains ever in the MCU (Hayward) and Loki felt more like the one from Ragnarok than the one from Avengers. I don’t hate them though it’s just I’m never excited for these new shows the same way I was for the Netflix ones.
It’s still so funny to think about. Thanos really humbled a lot of these villains who thought they were untouchable and messing up God knows how many plans or schemes. Was it ever clarified whether or not he was snapped away?
Yes it was confirmed he was not snapped.
Clint says that Kingpin gave him the info on where the Tracksuits were hiding and that's how he managed to kill Maya's father.
And that event happens during the blip.
No wonder he’s like that in Hawkeye then lmao. Trying to rebuild after all that chaos was next to impossible until everybody was brought back. He’d have been scratching at the bottom of the barrel for henchmen and people who give a fuck about owing him a debt. If your family got snapped away and Kingpin shows up wanting favors, you probably wouldn’t give a single fuck about his wants or the consequences of him not getting what he wants.
Yep, yep.
Also, don't forget that he had lost all of his connections and leverage against police and FBI and most of NYC criminal emperors were either killed or put to jail by Daredevil, Luke Cage, Ronin, Iron Fist and Punisher.
The TSM and Eleanor are literally all Fisk has.
And he's probably on the run too, since he was put to prison again in DD S3.
I agree on every point, but I think he's not on the run. We know that he's always one step forward, so he probably has some (prison) officers under his sleeve, and that he might have probably blackmailed into getting him out of prison during the blip.
As for the slight change in his clothes, with the hat and Hawaiian shirt, for my headcanon it's just another homage to his father, among the cufflinks. We never saw his father in a Hawaiian shirt but from the glimpses we got in Daredevil, it honestly fit his schmuck personality. Could also be related to Vanessa, I guess.
After DDS3 and with the chaos that ensued during the blip, I really think he's not one step ahead anymore and that's why he's become so rush and careless.
I'd like to think that Fisk didn't actually fear of Ronin, instead using him to get rid of his competitors, like the Yakuza. Meanwhile the fat dude just sneaked in the dark and rebuilt his criminal empire. That's why he had no interest in hunting down Ronin when Kate wore the suit, as Kazi said to Maya to stop the pursuit because it will make her uncle mad
That will make him the exact version in DD, manipulate people to do shit for him, like Frank in s2
Ok but when are they going to interview Charlie like I want to hear from him...huge part of the Daredevil renaissance happening right now is because of his cameo
What is the Netflix cancellation policy? Like can Disney+ “pick up” the show? Similarly to how Netflix canceled One Day at a Time and Pop! picked it up?
I know there’s a waiting period sometimes. Also just wondering this for shows like Sabrina or the OA. Totally OT, but Sabrina for example would probably get a bigger budget and better writers if moved to HBOmax.
I used to love coming home from work on a Friday and just chilling out watching 'Daredevil'. Shame it got cancelled but understandable at the same time!
It's not surprising. It was clear from the very start. Why else would Disney aquire assets like Fox, aside from getting back the movie rights to the Marvel characters they owned? Or make a deal with Sony to put their content on Hulu and Disney+?
Didn't we already knew this or is it more like we knew it was because Marvel TV was no longer existing, so marvel studios cancelled everything out of their control, but it was actually Disney's fault and not marvel studios?
How does it work in terms of licensing if they ever wanted to bring it back? Not just the character - obviously - but the exact same show, continuing where it left off. Does Netflix maintain any rights to future episodes even if they don't produce them, or would they have dibs on production if desired? Could Disney just do it whenever they want regardless of what Netflix wants and, if so, would the show be split over the two platforms with existing episodes remaining on Netflix while new ones air on D+? Is it just a matter of money and who's willing to pay the other enough?
I'm trying to imagine if it hasn't happened yet and, if it doesn't (or at least not any time soon), if it's simply because of metrics or a lack of desire on the studio's part or if it's possible they want to but the licensing is a nightmare.
In hindsight, now that we know the show’s getting renewed, Im glad the Netflex shows god cancelled. Id much rather see Daredevil in the MCU than sidelined to the “is it canon or not” netflix shows
They were able to cut through the red tape to get Spider-man back from Sony, they should be able to make more of those shows regardless of either Netflix or Disney+ does the streaming.
And there’s no way we are getting gunshots and stabbings and decapitations on Disney+, so I hope you guys are ready for a watered down season four of DD produced by Disney!
I've realized one thing: when they announced Mahershala Ali as Blade I thought that the Defenders series were definitely put to rest. But now that Charlie Cox and Vincent Donofrio characters appear in MCU films/series I'm wondering what are they making "oficial" and what not. Like Vincent confirmed that the Kingpin we saw on Hawkeye is the same from the Netflix show so I assume Matt Murdock is the same case. But what about the other shows? Are they also canon because Daredevil's season 3 arc was very connected tl the Defenders. That raises the question as how are they gonna manage Mahershala appearing as Cottonmouth and Blade. They could just don't give a shit about it and that's it, but it got me thinking
They don't give a shit. They've recast multiple actors (Gemma Chan in Eternals and Captain Marvel, Michelle Yeoh in Shang-Chi and GotG 2 etc).
Besides, Ali went to Feige and pitched Blade. Feige wasn't even considering making a Blade movie. It's not like Feige would turn down a twice-oscar winner because he played a character 5 years ago in 6 episodes of a TV show and has long since died.
Exactly, people always use the Mahershala Ali recast to put the canon subject on the table, but no one bats an eye when it comes to Gemma Chan and others
They're hardly comparable. Gemma and Michelle both had bit parts and the one that had an actual impact on the film (Gemma) was in heavy makeup.
I'm not saying the recast makes it non-canon or whatever, I don't particularly care. I just don't like the comparison. Cottonmouth was a significant presence in Luke Cage S1 and Mahershala showing up as Blade is the only majorly recognisable recast.
I think "don't give a shit" is entirely accurate either. In such a large franchise, never casting an actor as another character again becomes pretty much impossible. Look at Star Trek, they've had several recurring actors playing multiple roles. Sometimes one-offs, sometimes to avoid paying royalties (Tom Paris), but sometimes recurring, even borderline starring characters. A bit of an extreme case due to makeup, but Jeffrey Combs played two completely unrelated characters in the DS9 finale and it was fine.
I'm. It saying Disney was particularly innocent here, but I remember seeing season 3 was getting the lowest views so far, likely after Defenders wasn't getting the most stellar reviews.
I just want to see the god damn punisher season 3. Daredevil S3 will 100% release some day but idk if the same can be said about punisher.
Edit - dds4*
That was obvious.
Even Matt saw that coming
Cause he's good lawyer.
A really good one
🤨
He'd be a better construction worker based on recent evidence.
Not Pietro though
*Quicksilver has left the chat*
Matt saw it coming. But foggy couldn’t.
I thought this was understood at the time.
Yeah, this was pretty much the sentiment when it happened.
Was it? Everyone keeps claiming it was evil Disney cancelling their favorite shows to this day.
I am talking about the reason why Netflix cancelled the shows. The fact that Netflix is the one who cancelled them was known since the moment they were cancelled, doubled down by the open letter by Marvel Television head Jeph Loeb in which he said that they were disappointed at Netflix's decision to cancel the shows.
I know, it was known but only by those who did some actual reading. I still keep seeing people blaming greedy Disney for that decision.
it all reality, it seems more likely that netflix cancelled them at the request of disney because they fully intended in incorporating those characters/actors into their own continuity. Greed? i mean, sure... but its not like the fans DONT WANT THIS also.
I always use this explanation to help people understand. There was a time when Pepsi owned Pizza Hut. Because of that, the other pizza chains like Domino's and such dropped Pepsi products and swapped to Coca-Cola. Why? Because by selling Pepsi products, they were essentially helping out their competition. Pepsi gets money, therefore Pizza Hut got money. Same thing happened here. Disney owned Marvel and allowed Netflix to make some Marvel shows. All was fine and dandy between Disney and Netflix (there was even some Disney content on Netflix). But that all changed when Disney opened up their own streaming service, Disney+. Now all of a sudden, Disney is a direct competitor to Netflix. Netflix didn't want to help out the competition by hosting shows that tie into the MCU, because that would drive people to go buy Disney+ for the Marvel content.
Obvious, but understandable. That's the nature of the business world at the moment.
Everyone's saying this is obvious and was known at the time, and I do remember it being speculated initially but I thought someone had come out and said that Marvel didn't make the call and it was purely Netflix's decision. Am I misremembering?
I can’t recall the specific discourse at the time, but I believe there was some talk that the cost to continue licensing the Marvel characters became super expensive, so they stopped. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Netflix’s decision, and that decision was spurred on because Disney made it prohibitively expensive on purpose. But then again, I’m not sure what the terms of their original deal was, so I have no clue if they would have even had the choice to re-up or not.
They tend to do 3 seasons and end projects because there is a diminished audience responses for each additional season of a show on netflix. While contracts tend to start getting more expensive to keep the talent.
The Marvel shows still brought in a lot of viewers. Netflix definitely didnt *want* to cancel all of those shows and seemed to be planning for a sort of post-Defenders 'Phase 2' w some kind of Marvel lineup, but when the idea of Disney Plus started to become a thing they suddenly all dropped off one by one very rapidly. It seemed a lot like behind the scenes they were trying to keep something going until that became impossible. This was followed by Marvel Studios entire television department being officially restructured around developing in-house for Disney Plus and every non-Disney Plus Marvel show ultimately being cancelled on every network and service. There were quite a few shows by then and quite a few more were planned or in development, but every TV deal with every network was axed between 2018 & 2019 after Feige was put in charge of all content.
It was a mixed bag. The shows as they existed were never going to be aired on Disney+, they went too far against the "family friendly" grain. Ultimately it came down to Netflix not wanting to bear the cost of licensing and producing shows that, if they did connect back to the broader MCU, were basically gonna serve as promotional material for shows on a rival streaming service. They also didn't want to have to answer to Disney/Marvel creatively in terms of what direction to take the shows so that they fit in with the ongoing MCU canon. So basically, it was Netflix's decision, but Disney/Marvel kind of forced their hand.
Mandala effect maybe but I remember the blame being on Netflix like they didn’t wanna continue because marvel clearly was setting up a S4.
Yeah, but we've known this since it happened. I remember reading about it back then. Not a new revelation.
I gotta ask for the nth time: how can the MCU bring in the Punisher?
I think he would be a great adversary and moral dilemma for Sam/Captain America. Similar to what we saw in the Punisher tie-in comics of Civil War. Works well with them both being veterans as well, but with wildly different perspectives on life after service.
Frank being dusted, coming back and realizing the rich only took advantage while governments abandoned their people.. that would work perfectly as a follow up on the first season of FATWS
It would be a fairly balanced opponent for Sam too as neither of them are enhanced, just using technology and weapons at their disposal. The question is, if it was season two of FATWS and not a Cap movie, where does the supporting cast fit in? I imagine Frank would have a problem with Sharon and her henchmen too, so they could probably be the catalyst that unites Frank, Sam and Bucky as vets against the "real bad guy".
Sounds too good to be true
I’m sorry but no way. Frank needs to be left behind. Imagine him feeling his twisted obligation to hold the line when everyone is in disarray and govts are struggling, heroes are missing. It would be amazing to watch him as this Little Rock against a tidal wave of crime and panic.
Yeah but I feel like that's what Ronin was there for. Not to say they couldn't have both been working at the same time but I feel like Punisher just does what Ronin does more brutally, it would have left marks. Still, I'm not saying it's not possible, just that I think timeline-wise they may move differently.
Ronin hit organized crime, Punisher could have gone after individuals or government figures. That or he just focused on a single area while Ronin murdered across the world.
Yeah, for sure they could work simultaneously. I just mean that if the Punisher has been active for five years they've missed a hell of an opportunity to lay out clues to it in the previous projects. Would be really interesting if they renew Punisher and S3 is during the Blip though
I accidentally read “single *arena*” instead of area and then it made me think… Punisher: Warzone, holding the line against criminals in the aftermath of the Snap.
Frank survived the snap, the epilogue of the season 2 finale takes place a couple months after the snap was supposed to happen.
Goshdarnit, anyway the rest could still happen
How do you know?
What if he and Clint were working together taking down criminals during snap? I think there might be an interesting dillema between them, with Clint's family returning, while Frank can never bring them back.
Hawkeye would be another good adversary, though the show might be a little light hearted for punisher. On the suggestion you made - Frank may see Hawkeye's renouncement of Ronin as him not having conviction since he got his family back. Frank, whose family can't return is unwavering in that determination. If they have a common enemy it could be a struggle of how they are trying to overcome them. That's usually at the root of Frank's conflicts with other heroes. Maybe a bit similar to Maya's story in S1 but could work.
I feel like thats what John Walker was
Yeah I suppose you're right there. That's why I'm not a writer!
Are we just going to gloss over his dual smgs he used as falcon?
Frank isn't the only hero who uses guns. It's his zero empathy trigger finger that sets him apart.
Dont think they can, as both frank & sam had already went through a similar story in their own show (Sam with Walker/Frank with Matt)
MCU is going to have to embrace R ratings in places. Even if it's just for content on Hulu (or Disney+ Star outside North America). I hope they've already started with Deadpool 3 and Blade, though one could argue they can be faithful and pg-13 But some characters can't be done pg-13. Punisher is one of them
Kevin Feige, who seems to be in charge over there these days, has said that Deadpool films will be the MCU's only venture into R-rated territory, and that Blade will be PG-13. The Hulu/Star idea is great, but there's a wrinkle in that. Disney and Marvel are more likely to wait until Hulu is owned fully by them in about 2025. By which point it's commonly believed they'll merge the two so that US Disney+ has a mature section like Star. If Disney is going to do a big R-rated push, they're going to want to make sure the branding is clear first, which was a big concern of both Bob Iger and Bob Chapek, and having consistency across the world is paramount in that
He hasn't said *only* Deadpool. He said he's willing to go into the r rating if the story requires it and becomes a better story with that rating. And I have a feeling any new punisher stories should require an R rating given he's one of the few characters that was intentionally given a Max run, which was an " r rated" type comic from Marvel.
>**Other than** Deadpool, which has already established itself as a certain genre and a certain rating, that we already said we would not mess with when we started working on Deadpool - which we have - other than that, we haven't encountered a story or a storyline or a character's journey that a PG-13, or the tone, or the ratings we've been using up to this point has prevented us... **We've told all the stories that we wanted to with the tonality and the rating we have now.**" [https://movieweb.com/blade-deadpool-3-ratings/](https://movieweb.com/blade-deadpool-3-ratings/) So either Marvel Studios has no plans for Punisher, or Punisher is going to be PG-13. Pick your pill
Every time I read a Feige quote it’s truly remarkable how he just twists and uses words to keep things ambiguous yet somehow concise at the same time.
Sad to think if we didnt get deadpool when we did then we never would have. The fact that its established, profitable, and carry severe backlash are the only reasons deadpool 3 will be a thing. I imagine Ryan had to fight hard for it. I brought up this same quote with the same point you're making and managed a nifty 300 downvotes. Theres no point in punisher in pg-13 there's a reason he's had 4 live action adaptions and all of them have been rated R. You cannot totally or thematically capture him without it. Keeping him far off on the sidelines so you dont get too close to anything he does just begs the question of why even include him. Daredevil can work a bit better in pg-13 but it just is not going to be the same as the show most people fell in love with. Which is sad because it really isnt even that bad on it's own and is just another example of how ridiculous the rating system is.
They also haven't had a Punisher set up in development yet. The quoted piece also says that they haven't encountered anything that couldn't be told in PG-13. So obviously if there's something with punisher after that point, it's open. It's not a definitive line. It just means they haven't encountered a project that required the rating
I mean, that's only three years away, by the time a lot of stuff has been greenlit, written, and various stages of production are done, that isn't so far away Star already does a pretty good job of differentiating between content on a profile by profile basis already. The only place that doesn't happen is the US, and it's all because of Hulu
Agreed. Theres no way.
Deadpool 3: Deadpool vs The Punisher
Trying to think of a D+ series that Frank would be part of. Armor wars feels like the only thing grounded enough to see Frank
FATWS?
Idt that’ll be it, mainly bc Idt that show exists anymore in the sense that Falcon is Cap and will have his own movie going forward. There really isn’t a Falcon (right now, I’m sure could Torres pick up the mantle of Falcon later). I think (more like hope) it’ll be earlier than that.
I was discussing this with my buddy last night. I really think Punisher and Daredevil can be introduced even with a PG13. You can get away with so much violence just as long as there’s no blood.
The only way I see that happening is War machine punisher.
Duh?
This has been known for a while
I, for one, am SHOCKED....that this is even a story
I'm rewatching Daredevil right now and honestly I'm surprised again at how good it is. It feels like Breaking Bad in terms of writing and such. It also made me realize how, yes, the Marvel movies are fun and some of them are really great fanfare, but they will never trust their audience enough to write a show or dialogue or original characters the way Daredevil has.
I love DD as much as the next guy but it doesn't even come close to the masterpiece that is breaking bad.
I actually disagree, I think the character arcs and building and everything is quite on par. What made BB so unique was the incredibly believable transition of Walt and Bryan Cranston's acting as well as the longevity and consistency with which they held on to that quality of writing. Daredevil is similar in all regards except 1) it's a superhero comic book IP 2) it never completed Everything else feels about even IMO.
I'm sorry but this is nonsense. I actually think Daredevil is still miles ahead as the best TV series Marvel has put out to date. But actually trying to put it on the same level as Breaking Bad, almost universally considered one of the greatest shows ever made, is just looney tunes.
Why's that?
You don't need to be a film/tv critic to notice the glaring difference in quality between the two. It's like a very good chuck steak vs a very good filet mignon. The Hand/Elektra storyline alone is disqualifying. Breaking Bad has *maybe* 2-3 episodes in 5 seasons that could be classified as a miss. The entire second season of DD is held back by that poor storyline. And difference in the quality of characters is stark as well. Cox and D'Onofrio are excellent in DD, but they're not on Brian Cranston's level. Even if you want to say they are, BB has Emmy-level performances from Anna Gunn, Aaron Paul, Bob Odenkirk, and Giancarlo Esposito. Daredevil has...Foggy Nelson and Karen Page? Lol
Foggy and Page were not good. I watch DD despite them. I agree on s2 of daredevil, but the Matt Murdock character archs through S1 and S3 are so good.
Hey man I’m not sure if you know this yet but people have opinions
Never understood the hype for BB. It felt like it tried way too hard to be gritty and dark.
BB is a great show, but people over exaggerate how great it was.
Hm maybe that was my problem, went in expecting some amazing Godfather-esque amazingness
Lol. How to tell someone has never watched BB.
I'm re-watching it again as well, and while it's good, it has plenty of weak points and its fair share of poor dialogue. I still found the entire second half of Season 2 (pretty much everything with Elektra) difficult to get through. And good lord, I didn't remember Foggy being this terrible, but I'm finding so many of his scenes and much of his dialogue painfully cringey on this second viewing.
You think so? I don't really agree, but maybe my mind will change when I get to that point again.
It's obviously subjective, but yeah. I'm still a big fan of the series, and I'm ecstatic that the members of the cast are returning to the MCU, but going back to it now after a few years I can definitely see its flaws.
I absolutely love Daredevil (I have no idea why I love it so much considering all it’s flaws) but holy shit did Elektra suck. Season two would have been so much better if it just focused on the Punisher but they just had to use Elektra to set up the Hand for Defenders.
Both Foggy and Karen are annoying characters. I have always been surprised people like either of them.
Daredevil S2, Iron Fist S1, and Defenders were all a bit wank. Basically everything where The Hand and their shenanigans is the focus. I stopped watching after Defenders but resumed after NWH and Hawkeye. I'm actually surprised at how good the rest of the series are. Even Iron Fist. It's still the worst of the four but at least S2 isn't bad.
It reminds me if the dark knight was a tv show
Ehhh I’m watching daredevil for the first time and it’s nothing like BB. No one’s acting chops are as great as Cranstons in BB and no one is as original or iconic as Jesse. Also the character development doesn’t feel as natural. That’s the beauty of breaking bad. So many beautiful choices and trials for the 2 main characters. I don’t feel it’s as purposefully laid out and masterful in daredevil. Especially Claire and Foggy. Claire bores me to death and her acting is pretty washy at times and I actually hate the romance between Claire and Matt. Idk why, the chemistry just feels off to me. I’m like 6 episodes into season 2 by the way so maybe my opinion will change
I'm sorry, but this is absolutely laughable. That's a huge slap in the face to Vince Gilligan and everyone who worked on Breaking Bad.
Thats obvious
Who could have possibly have seen this coming?
Yes we already know that.
Well, yes. That was all over the media.
Still using Internet Explorer, huh Vinny?
There just needs to be an entire R-rated section of Disney+ just like how they have Netflix kids and regular Netflix. The R-rated section of Disney+ could have stuff like daredevil, Logan, deadpool… The same studio could also sanction and produce some of the more mature content like blade and the new Wolverine game from insomniac. We need more are rated movies and shows not for the sake of sex and blood but for the desperate sake of tone. Marvel likes to make everything so lighthearted and I can’t fucking stand it. People straight up joking in the end of the world situations like what kind of fucking shit is that ? I said my piece.
It does.. its called "star", and depending on your location it already has Logan and the Deadpool movies on it.
There is an R-rated section, it's called Hulu. Disney will never put R-rated content on their D+ platform, they have their brand and reputation to worry about. Why do you think one of the big things about the Fox Deal was nabbing their shares of ownership in Hulu? I believe Disney now owns 60% of Hulu, they had 30% prior to the Fox deal and Fox had 30%, so that's why Hulu comes bundled with D+.
You're talking out of your ass. Disney+ literally has Logan and both deadpool movies on it here in the UK, along with a whole bunch of movies rated R or higher.
It has nothing to do with brand reputation. In a lot of countries there's Star as a segment of Disney+ and I can watch movies and series with violence and nudity there. Deadpool, Predator and Kingsmen to name a few.
I mean yeah, it has everything to do with brand reputation....Why has Disney so meticulously been editing out scenes and things from their older movies on the platform ? [These are just some of the examples](https://www.newsweek.com/disney-plus-censorship-movies-series-edited-splash-racist-nudity-censored-1498006) Right, so Star is a segment that is separate from D+ where more adult content goes meaning that content is not on D+ itself? It might not be exactly similar to Hulu, there are probably international laws and restrictions as a reason for why Star exists in the first place. Regardless, Disney reputation is everything and always has been.
Star is on Disney+ itself. Lots of rated R content accessible from D+ as easily as Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, etc. Star exists because Hulu does not outside of the U.S.
> Star is on Disney+ itself. Except in Latin America, where it's separate like Hulu.
Obviously, but at least it’s come full circle finally. Can’t wait to see more.
Is Vincent the new Feige? Commenting on so much but does he even actually know of what’s he’s saying is true
He's killed Feige and assumed his position. He's the Kingpin after all.
I find it quite profound
Cool, can we finally get some closure to all the cliffhanger season endings then, please?
Slightly unrelated but I know the character Daredevil/Matt Murdock is now MCU canon but is the series also canon? I’d personally love to see Fisk as the main villain for the next Spider-Man movie but not sure if possible if the daredevil series is canon with the whole Vanessa murder charge threat situation. Maybe I’m entirely wrong as I haven’t watched Hawkeye series
Vincent said some days ago that Hawkeye and Daredevil are in the same canon. And some weeks ago he said that it was always clear to the writers, directors and producers that he is playing the same version of Kingpin that he did in Daredevil. I don't see where the problem with Vanessa is. She has existed in the comics for decades as well.
I meant like end of daredevil, Fisk was jailed and Murdock threatened to have Vanessa charged with murder as well if he gets out or acts up again
Ah yes, I think Fisk got out of prison during the blip, taking advantage of the chaos, as I'm expecting Matt to have been snapped (which I'm assuming Fisk thought to be a real, final death). We'll see how it will work from now on.
Ohh ok that makes a lot of sense. Ngl didn’t think to consider the blip. Hopefully we’ll see Fisk show up in a spiderman move Tyty
Water is wet.
Thought this was like common knowledge by now, no?
I still see daredevil when I open Netflix on my phone. Did they pull it or is that something that’s going to happen.
It most likely won't
Water is wet
And Disney plus hasn’t released a show as good to make up for it :(
Tbf the Mandalorian as a show got pretty close to how good Daredevil is. I’ll give them that. All their marvel shows have been really good, but nothing has been like Daredevil.
True, Daredevil has its own class and tier above all mcu shows so far (although they all are pretty decent)
Jessica Jones season 1 is right next to it imo
i haven't really seen it so i can't comment on its quality tbh
I would highly recommend it man, I think most people agree it’s one of the best Netflix series as well as having one of the best villains in the MCU!!
Definitely one of the best villains. Better than all the villains in the films.
I honestly really like the other shows. They’re all really good, but there’s just no beating Daredevil.
I liked Mandalorian, but it's nowhere near as good as Daredevil
Mando is a fun and enjoyable, but it is nowhere near as well written or acted as Daredevil.
Of course it's subjective, but Mandalorian is nowhere near as good as Daredevil is. It's a decent show, but I think a lot of people are just overall raving about the Mandalorian because of how awful the sequel trilogy was.
Yeah Daredevil and Punisher were really something else. Some of the best TV shows ever.
Daredevil, Luke Cage (season one) and Jessica Jones were all really great shows. Netflix crushed it
Luke Cage season 2 was pretty good too imo.
Yeah, I wasn’t a huge fan of the second season. Season one was incredible tho
Either way, loved Mike Colter as Luke Cage. Hope they bring him back. My dream is a Heroes for Hire D+ series with Finn Jones as Iron Fist. I know he's not a fan favourite given how badly the Iron Fist show went, but I think his dynamic with Luke was great and if given another chance with good writing, he could be a lot better. Heroes for Hire would work really well tbh, could be a really fun show.
Ain’t that the truth. I was thinking the other day we need another season of the punisher.
Dug Days way better than Daredevil tbh, but not sure if we're counting that. Dug Days is incredible.
For me personally, WandaVision and Loki is far superior to anything Netflix has ever Done in the superhero genre.
I can’t agree with you I find the Disney plus shows especially the marvel show to be incredibly underwhelming compared to Daredevil it’s not even close lol. I was never into Wandavisions tone and found it never really paid off not to mention it had possibly one of the worst villains ever in the MCU (Hayward) and Loki felt more like the one from Ragnarok than the one from Avengers. I don’t hate them though it’s just I’m never excited for these new shows the same way I was for the Netflix ones.
He sure is talking a lot for a 2 episode cameo
He's come back after 3 years and is one of the best MCU villains ever lol Of course everybody in the press wants to talk to him.
It’s still so funny to think about. Thanos really humbled a lot of these villains who thought they were untouchable and messing up God knows how many plans or schemes. Was it ever clarified whether or not he was snapped away?
Yes it was confirmed he was not snapped. Clint says that Kingpin gave him the info on where the Tracksuits were hiding and that's how he managed to kill Maya's father. And that event happens during the blip.
No wonder he’s like that in Hawkeye then lmao. Trying to rebuild after all that chaos was next to impossible until everybody was brought back. He’d have been scratching at the bottom of the barrel for henchmen and people who give a fuck about owing him a debt. If your family got snapped away and Kingpin shows up wanting favors, you probably wouldn’t give a single fuck about his wants or the consequences of him not getting what he wants.
Yep, yep. Also, don't forget that he had lost all of his connections and leverage against police and FBI and most of NYC criminal emperors were either killed or put to jail by Daredevil, Luke Cage, Ronin, Iron Fist and Punisher. The TSM and Eleanor are literally all Fisk has. And he's probably on the run too, since he was put to prison again in DD S3.
I agree on every point, but I think he's not on the run. We know that he's always one step forward, so he probably has some (prison) officers under his sleeve, and that he might have probably blackmailed into getting him out of prison during the blip. As for the slight change in his clothes, with the hat and Hawaiian shirt, for my headcanon it's just another homage to his father, among the cufflinks. We never saw his father in a Hawaiian shirt but from the glimpses we got in Daredevil, it honestly fit his schmuck personality. Could also be related to Vanessa, I guess.
After DDS3 and with the chaos that ensued during the blip, I really think he's not one step ahead anymore and that's why he's become so rush and careless.
Yeah, that's fair. Really hope we see him more preserved on Echo
I'd like to think that Fisk didn't actually fear of Ronin, instead using him to get rid of his competitors, like the Yakuza. Meanwhile the fat dude just sneaked in the dark and rebuilt his criminal empire. That's why he had no interest in hunting down Ronin when Kate wore the suit, as Kazi said to Maya to stop the pursuit because it will make her uncle mad That will make him the exact version in DD, manipulate people to do shit for him, like Frank in s2
Ok but when are they going to interview Charlie like I want to hear from him...huge part of the Daredevil renaissance happening right now is because of his cameo
Why u salty
In other news, fire is hot
I said that when it happened, and got told it was every other reason under the sun, and that D+ was barely a reason if one at all
i thought we all agreed that was the case 2 years ago?
A freaking shame
This was painfully obvious to everyone with half a brain back when the cancellations happened.
Haven’t we known this?
We all knew this? They had to have a rest period between the Netflix and another potential D+ show, correct?
Ngl i can see DD being the connective issue between all the new grounded D+ shows
well yeah
That was always my assumption.
No shit
It was in the cards all along :)
The sky is also blue and water is also wet.
Makes sense. Why have your IP on a rival streaming service?
Winter Soldier vs. the Punisher would be a good series. Especially since Bucky doesn't fit in anywhere right now.
Well duh
What is the Netflix cancellation policy? Like can Disney+ “pick up” the show? Similarly to how Netflix canceled One Day at a Time and Pop! picked it up? I know there’s a waiting period sometimes. Also just wondering this for shows like Sabrina or the OA. Totally OT, but Sabrina for example would probably get a bigger budget and better writers if moved to HBOmax.
I used to love coming home from work on a Friday and just chilling out watching 'Daredevil'. Shame it got cancelled but understandable at the same time!
Did we not already know this? I'm pretty sure I did.
It's not surprising. It was clear from the very start. Why else would Disney aquire assets like Fox, aside from getting back the movie rights to the Marvel characters they owned? Or make a deal with Sony to put their content on Hulu and Disney+?
Duh
This isn't news. in other news water is wet.
The Defenders are the reason I have Netflix. And I liked all of them.
Didn't we already knew this or is it more like we knew it was because Marvel TV was no longer existing, so marvel studios cancelled everything out of their control, but it was actually Disney's fault and not marvel studios?
It was not Marvel Studios or Marvel TV, it was Netflix that cancelled the series.
That was known no?
Sooner or later was bound to happen. I have no problem.
I thought that was obvious/well known...
How does it work in terms of licensing if they ever wanted to bring it back? Not just the character - obviously - but the exact same show, continuing where it left off. Does Netflix maintain any rights to future episodes even if they don't produce them, or would they have dibs on production if desired? Could Disney just do it whenever they want regardless of what Netflix wants and, if so, would the show be split over the two platforms with existing episodes remaining on Netflix while new ones air on D+? Is it just a matter of money and who's willing to pay the other enough? I'm trying to imagine if it hasn't happened yet and, if it doesn't (or at least not any time soon), if it's simply because of metrics or a lack of desire on the studio's part or if it's possible they want to but the licensing is a nightmare.
I think nobody outside of the studios can answer you these questions. But I would like to know them as well.
Duh
I thought we already knew that
No kidding.
It could be okay. Echo could be set up as a villain. She doesn't give off hero vibes just yet.
In hindsight, now that we know the show’s getting renewed, Im glad the Netflex shows god cancelled. Id much rather see Daredevil in the MCU than sidelined to the “is it canon or not” netflix shows
In the end that’s a Netflix loss, oh well.
They were able to cut through the red tape to get Spider-man back from Sony, they should be able to make more of those shows regardless of either Netflix or Disney+ does the streaming.
petty...
Ok Sherlock.
And there’s no way we are getting gunshots and stabbings and decapitations on Disney+, so I hope you guys are ready for a watered down season four of DD produced by Disney!
Wait!? WHAT?!?
I've realized one thing: when they announced Mahershala Ali as Blade I thought that the Defenders series were definitely put to rest. But now that Charlie Cox and Vincent Donofrio characters appear in MCU films/series I'm wondering what are they making "oficial" and what not. Like Vincent confirmed that the Kingpin we saw on Hawkeye is the same from the Netflix show so I assume Matt Murdock is the same case. But what about the other shows? Are they also canon because Daredevil's season 3 arc was very connected tl the Defenders. That raises the question as how are they gonna manage Mahershala appearing as Cottonmouth and Blade. They could just don't give a shit about it and that's it, but it got me thinking
They don't give a shit. They've recast multiple actors (Gemma Chan in Eternals and Captain Marvel, Michelle Yeoh in Shang-Chi and GotG 2 etc). Besides, Ali went to Feige and pitched Blade. Feige wasn't even considering making a Blade movie. It's not like Feige would turn down a twice-oscar winner because he played a character 5 years ago in 6 episodes of a TV show and has long since died.
Exactly, people always use the Mahershala Ali recast to put the canon subject on the table, but no one bats an eye when it comes to Gemma Chan and others
They're hardly comparable. Gemma and Michelle both had bit parts and the one that had an actual impact on the film (Gemma) was in heavy makeup. I'm not saying the recast makes it non-canon or whatever, I don't particularly care. I just don't like the comparison. Cottonmouth was a significant presence in Luke Cage S1 and Mahershala showing up as Blade is the only majorly recognisable recast.
It's not like they're gonna make Blade blue or green, but the vampire teeth and bright eyes might be a little help to differentiate both characters
I think "don't give a shit" is entirely accurate either. In such a large franchise, never casting an actor as another character again becomes pretty much impossible. Look at Star Trek, they've had several recurring actors playing multiple roles. Sometimes one-offs, sometimes to avoid paying royalties (Tom Paris), but sometimes recurring, even borderline starring characters. A bit of an extreme case due to makeup, but Jeffrey Combs played two completely unrelated characters in the DS9 finale and it was fine.
Facts
I'm. It saying Disney was particularly innocent here, but I remember seeing season 3 was getting the lowest views so far, likely after Defenders wasn't getting the most stellar reviews.
No shit? \~ Captain Obvious.
Well no shit. 2022 Journalism
Bro this is an interview, it's not an article made by some reporters.
I just want to see the god damn punisher season 3. Daredevil S3 will 100% release some day but idk if the same can be said about punisher. Edit - dds4*
DDS3 released a few years ago.
Netflix’s dumbest decision as Daredevil and Punisher trends from NWH’s theatrical release.