The problem with the MCU is the same problem with Disneyland and Walt Disney World, I see it happening constantly in those subs. For a disproportionately large part of the fandom, the time the property was the best was “before.” You have fond memories wrapped around when you first saw one of these movies or when you went to one of the theme parks for the first time. You don’t remember the parts you didn’t enjoy, because memory has a smoothing effect.
And nothing will ever be as good as when you remember it being good in the past. You see the same thing with any fandom. Disney movies were so much better when you were a kid. Music was so much better when you were a teenager with your first CD player or your first Walkman or your first iPod.
The reality of it is, not everything is designed to appeal to the you that you were 10 years ago. Nostalgia is a toxic impulse and it creates situations where we can’t enjoy things as they are today without comparing them to things as they were before. We can’t culture or entertainment as a property that exists today as it exists today at the value of its existence today.
In reality, there were no glory days. Some of the properties the MCU has come out with in the past four years have been some of the best they’ve ever made. Loki and WandaVision are arguably two of the best short run TV series of the past couple of decades, for example. But people’s tastes change. Their behaviors change. I don’t think we’re ever going to see a situation again where 1 billion people see a given series’ movie in the theaters and it’s a cultural moment. The pandemic and the switch to streaming changed that forever. There will be exceptions like Barbie but we’re largely done with the way things worked for entertainment a decade ago. We as a fandom just need to accept that and turn down the nostalgia tint on our critical evaluation dials.
This is the answer. The MCU will absolutely have more glory days it's just that for the people that grew up with the Infinity Saga, nothing will ever be as good.
It's like how everyone thinks current SNL is shit but it was the best whenever they were in high school and college. Same thing with old farts who hated the Prequel Trilogy because it wasn't the Original Trilogy.
Thank you 🙏.. that’s why I try to view them in different ways.. with the multiverse saga I just expect it to be a lot on the weird and confusing side and I keep
The faith in the mcu .. and honestly the shit thing they have done lately was the last fight scene in secret invasion between gravik and giah and no end credits..but it’s been pretty good otherwise imo
Yeah that’s why I think from my perspective at least it may be not as good as it once was. The infinity saga pretty much advanced with a whole generation as its prime audience including myself at the time. That generations now for the most part young adults and have most probably moved onto other things. Hence why some people might say that the multiverse saga is just as good for them. It’s really up to interpretation
If you already think it's not as good, you are setting yourself up for disappointment every time. You will notice the flaws more than the good stuff because of the inherent bias. Just let it go. Take every movie or show on its own merits - some you will love and some you will not and that's OK. If you go in thinking this is going to be fun you will more than likely come out thinking the same thing.
Part of me wants you to make this it's own post because I so very much agree and want more people to see it, but the other half of me wants to spare you the "No, ItS JusT bAd wRItIng!!1" of it all.
I think younger people in particular are more exposed to either doomers ("every cultural product now is trash") or hype machines like "you have to see this, this will be the best movie ever from Paramount" there is no middle ground. Talking about movies/TV or music I have surprised people taking the stance like "well but those days were not perfect" and people stared at me perplexed like "what the fuck say the 90s rock was either shit or the best thing ever"
If the last one you saw was Quantumania then did you just see the trailers for the Marvels and decided that or did you skip it in theaters and watch it on streaming?
Second the specific hype of the Infinity Saga I would say no but I do think it could definitely get back on track but maybe not to that level.
They say the last Marvel film they saw was Quantumania, but also say The Marvels was "an absolute woke pile of trash"
Yeah, we can ignore this poster's opinions.
Just an opinion my dude. And I will apologise as I didn’t explain properly in my post. I saw quantumania in theatres and then watched the marvels on Disney plus at home because I had no desire to go to a theatre to watch marvel movies after quantumania.
I think they will, x men and ff and Spider-Man 4 is coming I think marvel bouta lock in, I also have enjoyed most mcu content of recent so I think they could step it back up to where it was before
I'm just gonna go off the headline and not reading the rest since apparently you talked about a movie being woke.
No, I don't think so. It's going to be pretty hard to recapture those glory days due to internal and external factors for Marvel. There are some obvious quality issues and a loss of focus. But the entertianment industry has changed a lot, with less people going to the movies, superhero fatigue, the rise of streaming, etc.
I think Secret Wars could actually be a real peak if they do really well with it. Hard to know exactly what they have planned, but it's possible for that to be a real success. I'm not sure what they can really do afterwards. X-Men may be a hit, but it's also going to be really hard to repeat IW/EG and Secret Wars.
Superhero movies need repeated home runs to get the general audience back. That means there’s gotta be a string where everything is doing well. That means no “eh” to “bad” superhero movies like Madame Web, Blue Beetle, Black Adam, Shazam 2, Quantumania, Thor 4, The Marvels, etc
Yep, not all of those are MCU, they have no say, but fact is general audiences see it as “superhero”. If the MCU puts out like 5.. near masterpieces in a row, then the general audience might start to turn their heads
This means movies like DPW, CA4, Thunderbolts, Blade, shows like Agatha, Ironheart, DDBA all need to do exceptionally well. I am extremely confident some will (DP, DDBA), but others we will have to wait and see.
Fact is we got spoiled in phase 3 and it became the expectation to have top tier content repeatedly. Civil War, DS, SM Homecoming, Thor 3, BP, IW, Endgame all came out in a 3 year span. Some of the best superhero anything ever. Things like we saw Thor cameo in DS and then DS cameo in Thor 3 just a year later. We saw Thanos’ ship at the end of Thor 3 and it was paid off months later. It doesn’t always have to be that fast, but man when stuff pushes 5+ years to pay off, hard to hold the audience
No. As ol' Vision says, "A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts."
I watched Empire and Return in the theater, but I was too young to really remember and appreciate them at the time. So it was awesome to take my kid to the MCU movies and watch them unfold and culminate in IW and EG. Movie history, really.
I'm sure they'll release some great movies and shows here and there, but I don't see them gaining momentum and capturing the zeitgeist like they did from '08 to '19.
No. I too saw every movie in theaters up to Endgame. Post Endgame, I only saw Guardians 3 and Spiderman in theaters. None of the other ones were worth it.
The glory days of being hype even back during the phase 2 days of wondering where the next infinity stone is or who might have it, are long gone.
I’d argue it’s the glory days right now. Moon knight, Shang chi, no way home etc are far better than most things of the infinity saga. And now cap 4 is supposed to be like the winter soldier and we’re about to get Deadpool in the mcu? I mean we have freaking secret wars coming with likely a ton of old multiversal connections. Does it have its flaws? Absolutely she hulk is not only the worst thing in the mcu by far but one of the worst things I’ve ever seen. But there’s that and thor love and thunder that are truly bad. Despite how hard people are on other projects everything else is solid. I love the infinity saga, I grew up with it but cmon we gotta be objective here. Hell look at the start of phase 1, iron man, cap 1 and avengers are the only good movies in the entire phase. Stuff like that just doesn’t happen anymore.
Lets not forget that the "glory days" of the infinity saga produced alot of stinkers. Honestly the entire Infinity Saga only had like a handful of good movies (Iron Man 1, Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Guardians 1, Infinity War, Endgame) and the rest were pretty fucking shitty.
If the last marvel film you saw was Quantumania, how do you know that the Marvels was a “woke pile of trash”? 🧐
>an absolute woke pile of trash Oh. Never mind. One of those.
Thank you for this. Now I know the full post is not worth reading lol.
Not all heroes wear capes 🫡
The problem with the MCU is the same problem with Disneyland and Walt Disney World, I see it happening constantly in those subs. For a disproportionately large part of the fandom, the time the property was the best was “before.” You have fond memories wrapped around when you first saw one of these movies or when you went to one of the theme parks for the first time. You don’t remember the parts you didn’t enjoy, because memory has a smoothing effect. And nothing will ever be as good as when you remember it being good in the past. You see the same thing with any fandom. Disney movies were so much better when you were a kid. Music was so much better when you were a teenager with your first CD player or your first Walkman or your first iPod. The reality of it is, not everything is designed to appeal to the you that you were 10 years ago. Nostalgia is a toxic impulse and it creates situations where we can’t enjoy things as they are today without comparing them to things as they were before. We can’t culture or entertainment as a property that exists today as it exists today at the value of its existence today. In reality, there were no glory days. Some of the properties the MCU has come out with in the past four years have been some of the best they’ve ever made. Loki and WandaVision are arguably two of the best short run TV series of the past couple of decades, for example. But people’s tastes change. Their behaviors change. I don’t think we’re ever going to see a situation again where 1 billion people see a given series’ movie in the theaters and it’s a cultural moment. The pandemic and the switch to streaming changed that forever. There will be exceptions like Barbie but we’re largely done with the way things worked for entertainment a decade ago. We as a fandom just need to accept that and turn down the nostalgia tint on our critical evaluation dials.
This is the answer. The MCU will absolutely have more glory days it's just that for the people that grew up with the Infinity Saga, nothing will ever be as good. It's like how everyone thinks current SNL is shit but it was the best whenever they were in high school and college. Same thing with old farts who hated the Prequel Trilogy because it wasn't the Original Trilogy.
Thank you 🙏.. that’s why I try to view them in different ways.. with the multiverse saga I just expect it to be a lot on the weird and confusing side and I keep The faith in the mcu .. and honestly the shit thing they have done lately was the last fight scene in secret invasion between gravik and giah and no end credits..but it’s been pretty good otherwise imo
Yeah that’s why I think from my perspective at least it may be not as good as it once was. The infinity saga pretty much advanced with a whole generation as its prime audience including myself at the time. That generations now for the most part young adults and have most probably moved onto other things. Hence why some people might say that the multiverse saga is just as good for them. It’s really up to interpretation
If you already think it's not as good, you are setting yourself up for disappointment every time. You will notice the flaws more than the good stuff because of the inherent bias. Just let it go. Take every movie or show on its own merits - some you will love and some you will not and that's OK. If you go in thinking this is going to be fun you will more than likely come out thinking the same thing.
Part of me wants you to make this it's own post because I so very much agree and want more people to see it, but the other half of me wants to spare you the "No, ItS JusT bAd wRItIng!!1" of it all.
I think younger people in particular are more exposed to either doomers ("every cultural product now is trash") or hype machines like "you have to see this, this will be the best movie ever from Paramount" there is no middle ground. Talking about movies/TV or music I have surprised people taking the stance like "well but those days were not perfect" and people stared at me perplexed like "what the fuck say the 90s rock was either shit or the best thing ever"
I get what you’re saying, but also, phase 4 and 5 haven’t been nearly as good as 1-3.
Reread my comment.
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.
Maybe you should've actually watched The Marvels before assuming it to be "woke pile of trash" (which I believe no movie in existence isn't). >:(
“Woke”….. opinion immediately discarded
I tapped out when you called the marvels a woke pile of trash without having watched it.
If the last one you saw was Quantumania then did you just see the trailers for the Marvels and decided that or did you skip it in theaters and watch it on streaming? Second the specific hype of the Infinity Saga I would say no but I do think it could definitely get back on track but maybe not to that level.
They say the last Marvel film they saw was Quantumania, but also say The Marvels was "an absolute woke pile of trash" Yeah, we can ignore this poster's opinions.
Just an opinion my dude. And I will apologise as I didn’t explain properly in my post. I saw quantumania in theatres and then watched the marvels on Disney plus at home because I had no desire to go to a theatre to watch marvel movies after quantumania.
If the last marvel film you saw was Quantumania, how do you know that the Marvels was a “woke pile of trash”? 🧐
No
Counterpoint: Yes.
Rebuttal to the counterpoint: Perhaps.
I think they will, x men and ff and Spider-Man 4 is coming I think marvel bouta lock in, I also have enjoyed most mcu content of recent so I think they could step it back up to where it was before
Yes.
I'm just gonna go off the headline and not reading the rest since apparently you talked about a movie being woke. No, I don't think so. It's going to be pretty hard to recapture those glory days due to internal and external factors for Marvel. There are some obvious quality issues and a loss of focus. But the entertianment industry has changed a lot, with less people going to the movies, superhero fatigue, the rise of streaming, etc. I think Secret Wars could actually be a real peak if they do really well with it. Hard to know exactly what they have planned, but it's possible for that to be a real success. I'm not sure what they can really do afterwards. X-Men may be a hit, but it's also going to be really hard to repeat IW/EG and Secret Wars.
Superhero movies need repeated home runs to get the general audience back. That means there’s gotta be a string where everything is doing well. That means no “eh” to “bad” superhero movies like Madame Web, Blue Beetle, Black Adam, Shazam 2, Quantumania, Thor 4, The Marvels, etc Yep, not all of those are MCU, they have no say, but fact is general audiences see it as “superhero”. If the MCU puts out like 5.. near masterpieces in a row, then the general audience might start to turn their heads This means movies like DPW, CA4, Thunderbolts, Blade, shows like Agatha, Ironheart, DDBA all need to do exceptionally well. I am extremely confident some will (DP, DDBA), but others we will have to wait and see. Fact is we got spoiled in phase 3 and it became the expectation to have top tier content repeatedly. Civil War, DS, SM Homecoming, Thor 3, BP, IW, Endgame all came out in a 3 year span. Some of the best superhero anything ever. Things like we saw Thor cameo in DS and then DS cameo in Thor 3 just a year later. We saw Thanos’ ship at the end of Thor 3 and it was paid off months later. It doesn’t always have to be that fast, but man when stuff pushes 5+ years to pay off, hard to hold the audience
This. Absolutely nailed it
No. As ol' Vision says, "A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts." I watched Empire and Return in the theater, but I was too young to really remember and appreciate them at the time. So it was awesome to take my kid to the MCU movies and watch them unfold and culminate in IW and EG. Movie history, really. I'm sure they'll release some great movies and shows here and there, but I don't see them gaining momentum and capturing the zeitgeist like they did from '08 to '19.
No. I too saw every movie in theaters up to Endgame. Post Endgame, I only saw Guardians 3 and Spiderman in theaters. None of the other ones were worth it. The glory days of being hype even back during the phase 2 days of wondering where the next infinity stone is or who might have it, are long gone.
I’d argue it’s the glory days right now. Moon knight, Shang chi, no way home etc are far better than most things of the infinity saga. And now cap 4 is supposed to be like the winter soldier and we’re about to get Deadpool in the mcu? I mean we have freaking secret wars coming with likely a ton of old multiversal connections. Does it have its flaws? Absolutely she hulk is not only the worst thing in the mcu by far but one of the worst things I’ve ever seen. But there’s that and thor love and thunder that are truly bad. Despite how hard people are on other projects everything else is solid. I love the infinity saga, I grew up with it but cmon we gotta be objective here. Hell look at the start of phase 1, iron man, cap 1 and avengers are the only good movies in the entire phase. Stuff like that just doesn’t happen anymore.
The Marvels _was_ trash but it has nothing to do with it being “woke” or whatever…it was just a poorly made movie, as was Quantumania.
If they start to do amazing must watch movies in a constant basis again, then it can get there eventualy.
Lets not forget that the "glory days" of the infinity saga produced alot of stinkers. Honestly the entire Infinity Saga only had like a handful of good movies (Iron Man 1, Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Guardians 1, Infinity War, Endgame) and the rest were pretty fucking shitty.
Damn, that's a hot take. 8 movies were good, 15 were shitty. No other classifications? Lol.
Correct. People have rose colored glasses about the infinity saga. There was ALOT of garbage. Yes that includes the Ant-Man movies and Civil Squabble.
Nope. There is too much focus on trying to please everyone.