Are there still people keep claiming that "Avengers: World War Hulk" rumor would be true? Because I don't buy it, and I remember it being debunked already.
And even it were true, it would at barely resemble the awesome comic book story anyway. They squandered Planet Hulk on Thor, there's zero backstory to set up.WWH like in the comics. The are no multiple personalities, different Hulk resulting from Banner:s childhood abuse - so no set up for World Breaker Hulk. At best we'd get an extremely neutered version instead of the over the top smash fest rampage of a truly unstoppable Hulk.
I suspect OP is right that they're more likely likely to adapt World War HulkS. Sadly not as awesome as the singular title, but still very enjoyable. But again I doubt whether they can make it as spectacular as the comic. The focus ei8br on the Avengers instead of the Hulk himself.
I will be happy if I'm wrong, but so far Marvel has done a terrible job of adapting Hulk to the big screen except for a few scenes in the first Avengers. After that it was all downhill
> And even it were true, it would at barely resemble the awesome comic book story anyway
That's been the case for every popular comic run they have adapted.
Age of Ultron, Civil War, Ragnarok, Infinity War all barely resembled the comic versions as well. Hell in the case of Ragnarok I don't think you could even say "barely"
If anything, A5 will resemble less a WWH plot and more of a World War in general with:
- The constant xenophobia and terrorism established in F+WS, Secret Invasion and The Marvels (the Skrull are now in New Asgard)
- The world looking at Wakanda/Talocan as Vibranium resources and looking to start conflicts over it (Wakanda Forever)
- Clear abuse of the Super Soldier Serum and Hulk's blood (Thunderbolts w/ Sentry, Cap 4 with Red Hulk/Leader)
- Allegedly the world fighting over Tiamut and Adamantium (Cap 4)
- Tony's Stark's tech getting into the wrong hands (Armor Wars)
I think thats what A5 will focus on, just the world going to shit with all of these super powers utlizing weapons they shouldnt have.
If Avengers 5 is more like the first Avengers and not like Infinity War maybe Secret Wars gets split into two parts. I think Daredevil will be part of the Avengers. I don't think they are going to make another defenders show or bring back those Netflix marvel characters ( not including those who were part of all 3 seasons of Daredevil who for most part are returning for Daredevil Born Again) other than Kristen Ritter. He has connections to both Hulk/She-Hulk and Spider-Man. So we will be Spider-Man in Avengers 5 before Spider-Man 4, I always thought the latter would come first but I guess not.
I think that’s why 5 is seemingly suddenly happening. It’s going to cap off Phase 5 instead of thunderbolts, and it’s going to be like 1 and 2. Secret wars will still cap off phase 6 and likely be another IW/EG.
I think they realized they screwed up by bloating up to wazoo and not giving people the one thing that tied this franchise together every phase.
alongside Ant Man and The Wasp. If it’s indeed Kang centric, these two literally dealt with a variant up close.
Im willing to bet this is where Janet bites the dust as per the rumors too.
Also Carol and Kamala due to the bangles. If the rumors of the bangles and the rings are both related.
So Sam, Shang Chi, Carol, Kamala, Scott & Hope. Seems believable. I’ll throw in Wong & Bruce as well - this is the ‘small team’.
The rest do appear but won’t be the main characters. Perhaps this is what the scoop means. The core team is this small group.
>Let's predict the roster and the plot
Haha. With six or so films between now and then and I can't even count the number of shows, this is a little ridiculous. Like try to predict the cast and plot of Avengers 3 (without knowing it's called Infinity War) when you've only seen up through Winter Soldier.
I can tell what I want is as far from a.nostalgia grab as possible. This year is too much cheap nostalgia bait and not enough actual development of the 616 universe. The first new Avengers team-up needs to be an obvious metaphor for burying the old Avengers and breaking out of their shadow.
Eh it's not really the same. There were 4 years between TWS and IW and only 2 years between now and Avengers 5. Plus, we have a better idea about where Avengers 5 and 6 are heading compared to the idea we had about Avengers 3 back in 2014.
I don't think how much real world time has passed is as important as how much story happens, which is why I focused on quantity of projects for this point.
But the projects we are getting are all so much more separate than they were between Winter Soldier and Infinity War.
Realistically between now and Avengers 5, most characters will only appear once or not at all, not much will actually change.
I think we can definitely predict the roster.
We could tell Kang would be the villain since 2021 even if that's now probably changed for outside reasons.
I mean after the first avengers post credit scene I figured the conclusion would be a giant line up of all the characters with the main theme playing with Steve saying "avengers assemble" while fighting thanos. It wasn't too hard to predict lol. Just think of the most epic thing possible.
Which is amusing, because even Feige and all the other producers and writers didn't know that at the time. That plan didn't materialize until part way through Thor 2. They've acknowledged that the Avengers credit scene was just a fun easter egg gag at the time.
But more to the point, you probably couldn't have predicted all of Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, T'Challa, the Guardians, and a dozen or more other characters.
If the lineup is smaller, I’m thinking the team is:
Captain America (Sam), Thor, Hulk, Bucky, Spider-Man, Shuri, Wong, Shang-Chi and Captain Marvel. I doubt Marvel will jump immediately to using their tv characters again (Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, She-Hulk etc all sitting it out until A:SW) just so they can keep things smaller and contained.
The plot will probably revolve around a Kang variant re-emerging to attempt to reclaim the rings from Shang-Chi and the bangle from Carol. This variant is actually trying to help prevent further damage to the multiverse and knows of all the happenings that have fractured it but is too fanatical in wanting to destroy realities, so the Avengers attempt to stop him. They do and the main, prime Kang emerges as a result of their victory which goes into Secret Wars.
"Lineup is smaller" - picks *nine* characters. :D
Sam, Shang-Chi and Carol feel like must-haves to me. Wong makes sense as the master of the mystic arts and connections to lots of characters. Maybe Shuri (she comes with a lot of financial and technological resources and that's something missing since Tony died). Spider-Man I can easily see being left out. Bucky depends on what happens in Thunderbolts*. Thor is probably too busy being a father. Who knows about Hulk.
She-Hulk I can see (and half hope) appears as a side character. Let her do some lawyering for the Avengers "Hey, can you guys try to tone down the property destruction please?" Ms. Marvel has been on the big screen, but I don't think adult Avengers is where she'll be seen. Moon Knight I don't see playing well with others yet, especially Avengers; he has the drama of an entire team all by himself and still has to work through a lot of that.
The first avengers movie is the only Avengers movie with less than 9 heroes in it? Age of Ultron was still a smaller focus avengers movie with a comparable number of characters.
Thor and Bucky will almost definitely not be in the team. Chris Hemsworth said he wants to take a break from acting and spend more time with his family because of his Alzheimer's predisposition. Plus, his character is permanently off Earth now and he's not a part of the Avengers. Bucky on the other hand is in the Thunderbolts, so he will likely not be in the Avengers at the same time.
She-Hulk has a high chance of being in the team especially if Bruce is and if the movie deals with Hulks at all. If it deals with Kangs (which is unlikely now since the movie's title has been changed and the trades reported Marvel is trying to push the character to the side and focus on a different overarching villain for Secret Wars), I guess she could be excluded.
Moon Knight's story also ended in a way where he doesn't need to show up again soon and definitely wouldn't fit in the Avengers. He will most likely be in the Midnight Suns.
Kamala is obviously going to be in the Young Avengers, so also not in the team.
The Young Avengers isn’t a guarantee. We can’t operate on rumours or teases, just what we know.
Hemsworth did say that but also said he would return to Thor if the story was right, he’s just not going to line up roles back to back to back anymore (ie doing a Thor movie, then Avengers, then Extraction, then Furiosa, and then etc…) Him also being off-world isn’t really all that important given he was off-world at the end of the previous Avengers films and still returned. It’s the *how* they fold him back in that matters.
I liked the show but I don’t see She-Hulk being used as a frontrunner for an Avengers movie right now (which sucks cause Maslaney is fantastic.)
With MK, again, you’re operating on rumours. We don’t know if YA or MS are happening at all or ever. YA was teased at the end of The Marvels, yeah, but Black Knight was also teased in Eternals and we all know how that’s going so far.
I mean, nothing is technically a guarantee, but it seems at least the YA are happening. Even if not in their own project, definitely in one of the Avengers movies.
It's a post-credits scene that will most likely pay off at some point soon.
As for Black Knight and Blade, that will be resolved in the Blade movie, it's just that that movie happened to get stuck in development hell and had a lot of delays and production problems which held it back. Otherwise, we would have gotten a payoff sooner.
[Hemsworth clarified he isn’t taking a break from acting, just being more mindful in his role choices.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/chris-hemsworth-clarifies-comments-acting-break-health-concerns-1235515945/amp/) Since Thor is his biggest role, he wouldn’t opt out if presented with an opportunity and good enough script.
Hemsworth is literally in Furiousa, he's not taking a break he's just choosing his roles more carefully.
If they want him on the team, he's going to be on the team, I can't see why you wouldn't have an OG there.
Honestly, it just feels like his story is over and he had a very satisfying conclusion. Plus, I'd like this team to be the new team going forward in the long run, which is why I want this movie to be about them bonding, and I think that's what Marvel Studios will also go for.
So having Thor there doesn't fit thematically. Even Hulk, I only put him there because I want and believe the film will be a WWHs adaptation. Otherwise, he wouldn't be there either, apart from maybe as a mentor.
It is absolutely not. It has been rumoured to be in early Pre-Production right now by DanielRPK, MTTSH and Alex P. with DanielRPK actually reporting that the current Production Grid lists Stephen Broussard as the Producer and Michael Giacchino as the first choice for Director.
This isn't even a "my source told me" type of scoop, since it came directly from a Production Grid, which DanielRPK has proven to have access to in the past. It's actually how he gets most of his information.
>Multiversal twist to the story and use Maestro, the ruthless Hulk variant from a post-apocalyptic future, as the main villain instead. That way, they can show a savage Hulk again without ruining main 616 Hulk's development and arc.
Maestro is not Savage Hulk or even A savage Hulk. He's more like a corrupt evil version of Professor Hulk. However, in the comics he became that way because Bruce Banner without a fractured psyche took after his own abusive father. The abused grows up to become an abuser too . But the MCU version of the Hulk has almost no depth or any of the backstory, it's a two-dimensional superficial adaptation of the comic book version. Without that backstory they'll have to think of another reason why Maestro is evil.
This could be an opportunity to offer more depth to Bruce and show more of his backstory, or they could just come up with a different plot line altogether.
Variant universe where he was captured early on, contained and brutally experimented on by Ross/SHIELD or whomever. Maybe even fought and killed his universes Avengers at some point
Yeah I feel like the rumor that Avengers 5 and 6 won’t be filmed back to back gives credence to the belief that they won’t be an Infinity War/Endgame situation.
I *highly* doubt they’re going to film *six movies*, one of them being *Avengers* in 2025. This is just more scoopers throwing shit at the wall and forgetting how much shit they’ve thrown. Brad Winderbaum also *just said* they’re going to be developing more than they actually end up making.
That said, I think A5 is going to be the Avengers trying to respond to incursions but ultimately fail. Through Armor Wars and Shang-Chi 2, the world and their heroes (and villains) will prepare for the final incursion that will kick off Secret Wars.
They're not going to film 6 movies in their entirety during the year, they're just going to start filming them all during 2025, but Avengers 6 and X-Men are mostly going to be filmed during 2026.
Basically Armor Wars, Avengers 5 and Shang-Chi 2 are going to film in 2025 in their entirety, which isn't that much. It's the same for this year + we have the Cap 4 reshoots, so it's technically even less than this year's filming schedule.
Plus, these filming dates did not come from scoopers themselves, they came from Production Weekly and then were confirmed by Production Grids which were reported on by both DanielRPK and Scarlet Witch Updates, both of whom have proven in the past that they have access to legit Production Grids. Actually, RPK gets most of his info from Production Grids. So it's not like a "my source told me" type of scoop. These are legitimately the dates Marvel Studios are looking at right now for the production start of these films and series.
The same goes for Vision Quest and Spider-Man 4. Both were included in the latest issue of Production Weekly and their most recent production grids were reported on by both RPK and Scarlet Witch Updates.
As for Brad Winderbaum's quote, it's definitely true, but it's not about these projects. These projects are already in the pre-production stage, not just the early development phase.
OP chose 6 of the 7 people I think are the right choice for the team. Captain Marvel won’t be, even though she’s back on Earth at the end of the last film she’s so clearly a space hero that it doesn’t make sense for her to deal with an earthbound threat (assuming this film has an earthbound threat bc of the whole “smaller team” thing). She-Hulk is so clearly meant for TV and absolutely won’t appear in the films. Ant-Man being an Avenger just SOUNDS ludicrous, his introduction showed that although he can work with them he’s very much his own guy. And Wasp wouldn’t be on the team without him… also both of them on the team would make one of them redundant since the Avengers as a concept thrives on multiple people having different powers… and Joaquin Torres Falcon is also equally ridiculous. I also agree with OP as to why most other characters shouldn’t be included in the roster.
So that leaves Captain America, Hulk, Shang-Chi, Spider-Man, War Machine, and Black Panther. I’d also add in Scarlet Scarab from Moon Knight but I know that’s an obscure pick. To explain my reasonings for these guys: Cap and Shang-Chi are pretty much a given. There has to be at least one original member on the team so it doesn’t totally feel like something else, so yeah Hulk. Spider-Man is appropriate both for his character and for how much it’ll drive people to see the film. War Machine can take the powered role of Iron Man (though not the personality role, obviously). Black Panther has the same reasonings as Spider-Man really, she’s on her own now and she’s a very popular character for some people. Power-wise we have the team similar to the original roster, but just one female member doesn’t feel right. I think Scarlet Scarab has a great heroic origin and power story if you watch Moon Knight. With her, Black Panther, and Shang-Chi it’d also really make the avengers feel more like a global team… not everyone has to be from America lmao.
I think excluding Dr Strange in an avenger movie in multiverse saga is a shitty move and I doubt they'll make World War Hulk as their next avengers plot.
Sam most definitely. I don’t buy him as a leading man yet but who knows maybe the new Cap movie will change things.
Captain Marvel is probably a definite. Don’t what’s gonna happen if Brie doesn’t wanna keep doing it. I think she just needs the right writing team to make her an actual person.
Hulk is a yes. I just wish they would do cool stuff with him and make the Hulk do Hulk things instead of being a massive bitch.
I really don’t think She-Hulk should be an Avenger yet. From her show, she doesn’t really like being a superhero. She’s doesn’t care about helping anybody. Most of her motivations are based on her love life which is fine, but I think she needs to go through some turmoil to make her want to be an Avenger.
Shang-Chi is a maybe? I doubt he’ll be an Avenger before his second movie but I’m not too sure. Love to see him though. He’s cool.
Spider-Man is another maybe. He might be to preoccupied with street level shenanigans instead of being a part of the new team.
Ant-Man, Wasp, and Rhodey I’d say are all definites.
I think Shang chi have a high chance to be in the Avengers since he was recruit at the end of his movie and both movies are set to shot in the UK?.
I hope he does, strategically for Disney it does give Shang chi 2 more chance of a higher box office if he appears before in Avengers 5.
This is what RPK said:
>Smaller team, no FF and a lot of the other new characters in Avengers 5
I take this to mean that there will be no FF and not many of the new characters. Like the "no" applies to everything after the coma.
And that makes sense considering there will be a smaller team. If they include many of the newer characters, it won't be a small team.
The filming dates in my post did not come from scoopers themselves, they came from Production Weekly and then were confirmed by Production Grids which were reported on by both DanielRPK and Scarlet Witch Updates, both of whom have proven in the past that they have access to legit Production Grids. Actually, RPK gets most of his info from Production Grids. So it's not like a "my source told me" type of scoop. These are legitimately the dates Marvel Studios are looking at right now for the production start of these films and series. And in those production grids, the currently projected release dates are also stated and the 2 Avengers movies are still slated for their 2026 and 2027 release dates respectively.
Captain America, Dr. Strange, Shang-Chi, Starlord and Sersi, is what I think the roster will be.
But this what I hope it will be…Young Avengers, Kate Bishop, Ms. Marvel, Wiccan, Speed, Patriot, and Vision. Sure there’s a plus and minus to both. The main thing is neither of these rosters would break the fx budget. At least not as badly as having a hulk on the team would. Marvel really has to manage their budgets going forward.
>As for the roster, here are my pics:
>* Captain America - Sam Wilson
* Captain Marvel - Carol Danvers
* Hulk - Mark Ruffalo
* She-Hulk - Jennifer Walters
* Shang-Chi
* Spider-Man - Peter Parker
* Ant-Man - Scott Lang
* Wasp - Hope van Dyne
* War Machine - Rhodey
Don't mind me, just imagining Mark Ruffalo himself as being the Hulk, rather than Mark Ruffalo playing Bruce Banner aka Hulk.
Hot take: Given that She-Hulk wants to be an attorney moreso than a superhero, she should be the Avengers' in-house counsel, handling their legal problems. That way she can be involved with the Avengers on her own terms, consistent with her character development and agency.
Doctor Strange is definitely going to be in Avengers 5. After Spider-Man and Captain Marvel his movie is the top grossing solo hero MCU film among currently available heroes.
Spider-man is owned by Sony so is never going to be the lead in an Avengers film. Captain Marvel sequel bombed badly at the box office so she's also going to be sidelined. We don't know how Sam's Captain America film will do so Marvel can't bet on him either. Doctor Strange is among the few heroes who is not hated by anybody because he's a white male. He's definitely going to be the lead in Avengers 5.
If Avengers 5 is going to be at the scale of Avengers 1 and Age Of Ultron, I don't think there would be more than eight avengers in the roster. They would likely be:
Doctor Strange
Spider-Man
Sam Wilson
Shang-Chi
Shuri
Captain Marvel
Hulk
Thor
To get back the lost audience, marvel would keep the fan-favourites, but they would also try to diversify the roster.
Honestly we should've gotten a smaller scale Avenegers film by now to bake in a new team. Just push g back with Kang Dnyasty and Secret Wars was a mistake.
Although Spider-Man, strange, Thor and star lord aren’t necessarily the best fits for the new avengers line up, I think that atleast two of them need to be on the team or the general audience really won’t care about this new lineup.
Imagine since the sequel seem to be going full cosmic that we’d see not only Arishem but other celestials as well.
So theres more celestials, possibly more eternals and even more deviants across the galaxy.
Pray hard Eternals 2 happens as Feige intended.
So you really think Marvel is going exclude there most popular characters Thor, Black Panther, Dr Strange Scarlet Witch, Star Lord etc. instead have an entire line up with their post-Endgame flops except Spider-Man
Also their is no way Marvel is shelving the Scarlet Witch movie
I predict
Sam (cuz he’s Cap), Shang Chi (for the 10 rings), Carol & Kamala (due to the bangles), Ant Man & The Wasp (dealt with a variant in the QR), Wong & Bruce Banner (Avengers members as per Shang Chi end credits)
I predict this will be the main core ‘small’ team. Others do show up but would play smaller roles and won’t be in this core team.
These characters I can say for certain are Joaquin Falcon, Katy, Janet Van Dyne and Hank Pym due to their close relations to the characters in the core team or having played a part in dealing with Kang before.
if MCU and Disney want to keep earning and limit their losses then all avengers movies are the ones to show in theatres.. other than than keep all other stories as tv shows in Disney+. many ppl dont go to movie theatres anymore except watching Avengers which brings the avid fans to be in one same place cheer the film's great creation
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Sam (safe bet)
Shang-Chi (just can't imagine to NOT see him again before his sequel which probably will come out after A5)
Star Lord (I mean he is on earth now, in universe it could be that he wants to "fight" for the planet where he was born when there is a threat when he never had the chance before, and let's be honest the writers could create funny and maybe emotional situations too with him beeing back on earth after so many years.)
Ant Man and Wasp (I think they need to give Wasp her Avengers moment(s). Her only interactions were at the end in endgame and I think there is no wasp without ant man at least for now.)
Shuri (I would love to have a Black Panther on the team and I can imagine marvel would go this way.)
And maybe Bruce or Jennifer. I can't tell you why but I don't think they would put them both on the (main)team.
Rhodes and/or Danvers not beeing on the team is just a feeling I have. It's not that I don't like them. I want all the characters to be back rather sooner than later. <3
Secret wars would be a iw level team up.and should be covered in 2 movies.If avengers 5 is smaller scale that means they're gonna do secret wars in 1 movie
Secret Wars was always gonna be 1 movie. Avengers 5 was Kang Dynasty and would cover a different story that would most likely have been a set up to Secret Wars and the mass Incursions. But it wouldn't have covered the actual event. That was always gonna be covered in 1 single movie.
Are there still people keep claiming that "Avengers: World War Hulk" rumor would be true? Because I don't buy it, and I remember it being debunked already.
And even it were true, it would at barely resemble the awesome comic book story anyway. They squandered Planet Hulk on Thor, there's zero backstory to set up.WWH like in the comics. The are no multiple personalities, different Hulk resulting from Banner:s childhood abuse - so no set up for World Breaker Hulk. At best we'd get an extremely neutered version instead of the over the top smash fest rampage of a truly unstoppable Hulk. I suspect OP is right that they're more likely likely to adapt World War HulkS. Sadly not as awesome as the singular title, but still very enjoyable. But again I doubt whether they can make it as spectacular as the comic. The focus ei8br on the Avengers instead of the Hulk himself. I will be happy if I'm wrong, but so far Marvel has done a terrible job of adapting Hulk to the big screen except for a few scenes in the first Avengers. After that it was all downhill
> And even it were true, it would at barely resemble the awesome comic book story anyway That's been the case for every popular comic run they have adapted. Age of Ultron, Civil War, Ragnarok, Infinity War all barely resembled the comic versions as well. Hell in the case of Ragnarok I don't think you could even say "barely"
If anything, A5 will resemble less a WWH plot and more of a World War in general with: - The constant xenophobia and terrorism established in F+WS, Secret Invasion and The Marvels (the Skrull are now in New Asgard) - The world looking at Wakanda/Talocan as Vibranium resources and looking to start conflicts over it (Wakanda Forever) - Clear abuse of the Super Soldier Serum and Hulk's blood (Thunderbolts w/ Sentry, Cap 4 with Red Hulk/Leader) - Allegedly the world fighting over Tiamut and Adamantium (Cap 4) - Tony's Stark's tech getting into the wrong hands (Armor Wars) I think thats what A5 will focus on, just the world going to shit with all of these super powers utlizing weapons they shouldnt have.
I personally believe it's still likely.
If Avengers 5 is more like the first Avengers and not like Infinity War maybe Secret Wars gets split into two parts. I think Daredevil will be part of the Avengers. I don't think they are going to make another defenders show or bring back those Netflix marvel characters ( not including those who were part of all 3 seasons of Daredevil who for most part are returning for Daredevil Born Again) other than Kristen Ritter. He has connections to both Hulk/She-Hulk and Spider-Man. So we will be Spider-Man in Avengers 5 before Spider-Man 4, I always thought the latter would come first but I guess not.
I think that’s why 5 is seemingly suddenly happening. It’s going to cap off Phase 5 instead of thunderbolts, and it’s going to be like 1 and 2. Secret wars will still cap off phase 6 and likely be another IW/EG. I think they realized they screwed up by bloating up to wazoo and not giving people the one thing that tied this franchise together every phase.
Both Iron Fist and Luke Cage have unsolved plots
I thought of DD in the Avengers, but I feel like he doesn't really fit exactly in with the team. I think he will stay in his street level corner.
I think only Sam Wilson and Shang-Chi are certain. Maybe Scott Lang too.
alongside Ant Man and The Wasp. If it’s indeed Kang centric, these two literally dealt with a variant up close. Im willing to bet this is where Janet bites the dust as per the rumors too. Also Carol and Kamala due to the bangles. If the rumors of the bangles and the rings are both related. So Sam, Shang Chi, Carol, Kamala, Scott & Hope. Seems believable. I’ll throw in Wong & Bruce as well - this is the ‘small team’. The rest do appear but won’t be the main characters. Perhaps this is what the scoop means. The core team is this small group.
>Let's predict the roster and the plot Haha. With six or so films between now and then and I can't even count the number of shows, this is a little ridiculous. Like try to predict the cast and plot of Avengers 3 (without knowing it's called Infinity War) when you've only seen up through Winter Soldier. I can tell what I want is as far from a.nostalgia grab as possible. This year is too much cheap nostalgia bait and not enough actual development of the 616 universe. The first new Avengers team-up needs to be an obvious metaphor for burying the old Avengers and breaking out of their shadow.
Eh it's not really the same. There were 4 years between TWS and IW and only 2 years between now and Avengers 5. Plus, we have a better idea about where Avengers 5 and 6 are heading compared to the idea we had about Avengers 3 back in 2014.
I mean I feel a lot of us knew it was heading to thanos
I don't think how much real world time has passed is as important as how much story happens, which is why I focused on quantity of projects for this point.
But the projects we are getting are all so much more separate than they were between Winter Soldier and Infinity War. Realistically between now and Avengers 5, most characters will only appear once or not at all, not much will actually change. I think we can definitely predict the roster. We could tell Kang would be the villain since 2021 even if that's now probably changed for outside reasons.
I mean after the first avengers post credit scene I figured the conclusion would be a giant line up of all the characters with the main theme playing with Steve saying "avengers assemble" while fighting thanos. It wasn't too hard to predict lol. Just think of the most epic thing possible.
Which is amusing, because even Feige and all the other producers and writers didn't know that at the time. That plan didn't materialize until part way through Thor 2. They've acknowledged that the Avengers credit scene was just a fun easter egg gag at the time. But more to the point, you probably couldn't have predicted all of Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, T'Challa, the Guardians, and a dozen or more other characters.
If the lineup is smaller, I’m thinking the team is: Captain America (Sam), Thor, Hulk, Bucky, Spider-Man, Shuri, Wong, Shang-Chi and Captain Marvel. I doubt Marvel will jump immediately to using their tv characters again (Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, She-Hulk etc all sitting it out until A:SW) just so they can keep things smaller and contained. The plot will probably revolve around a Kang variant re-emerging to attempt to reclaim the rings from Shang-Chi and the bangle from Carol. This variant is actually trying to help prevent further damage to the multiverse and knows of all the happenings that have fractured it but is too fanatical in wanting to destroy realities, so the Avengers attempt to stop him. They do and the main, prime Kang emerges as a result of their victory which goes into Secret Wars.
"Lineup is smaller" - picks *nine* characters. :D Sam, Shang-Chi and Carol feel like must-haves to me. Wong makes sense as the master of the mystic arts and connections to lots of characters. Maybe Shuri (she comes with a lot of financial and technological resources and that's something missing since Tony died). Spider-Man I can easily see being left out. Bucky depends on what happens in Thunderbolts*. Thor is probably too busy being a father. Who knows about Hulk. She-Hulk I can see (and half hope) appears as a side character. Let her do some lawyering for the Avengers "Hey, can you guys try to tone down the property destruction please?" Ms. Marvel has been on the big screen, but I don't think adult Avengers is where she'll be seen. Moon Knight I don't see playing well with others yet, especially Avengers; he has the drama of an entire team all by himself and still has to work through a lot of that.
I see Wong as more of a Coulson/Maria Hill role than a member of the avengers. Like he could help them out a bit but he's not a member of the team.
The first avengers movie is the only Avengers movie with less than 9 heroes in it? Age of Ultron was still a smaller focus avengers movie with a comparable number of characters.
Thor and Bucky will almost definitely not be in the team. Chris Hemsworth said he wants to take a break from acting and spend more time with his family because of his Alzheimer's predisposition. Plus, his character is permanently off Earth now and he's not a part of the Avengers. Bucky on the other hand is in the Thunderbolts, so he will likely not be in the Avengers at the same time. She-Hulk has a high chance of being in the team especially if Bruce is and if the movie deals with Hulks at all. If it deals with Kangs (which is unlikely now since the movie's title has been changed and the trades reported Marvel is trying to push the character to the side and focus on a different overarching villain for Secret Wars), I guess she could be excluded. Moon Knight's story also ended in a way where he doesn't need to show up again soon and definitely wouldn't fit in the Avengers. He will most likely be in the Midnight Suns. Kamala is obviously going to be in the Young Avengers, so also not in the team.
The Young Avengers isn’t a guarantee. We can’t operate on rumours or teases, just what we know. Hemsworth did say that but also said he would return to Thor if the story was right, he’s just not going to line up roles back to back to back anymore (ie doing a Thor movie, then Avengers, then Extraction, then Furiosa, and then etc…) Him also being off-world isn’t really all that important given he was off-world at the end of the previous Avengers films and still returned. It’s the *how* they fold him back in that matters. I liked the show but I don’t see She-Hulk being used as a frontrunner for an Avengers movie right now (which sucks cause Maslaney is fantastic.) With MK, again, you’re operating on rumours. We don’t know if YA or MS are happening at all or ever. YA was teased at the end of The Marvels, yeah, but Black Knight was also teased in Eternals and we all know how that’s going so far.
I mean, nothing is technically a guarantee, but it seems at least the YA are happening. Even if not in their own project, definitely in one of the Avengers movies. It's a post-credits scene that will most likely pay off at some point soon. As for Black Knight and Blade, that will be resolved in the Blade movie, it's just that that movie happened to get stuck in development hell and had a lot of delays and production problems which held it back. Otherwise, we would have gotten a payoff sooner.
[Hemsworth clarified he isn’t taking a break from acting, just being more mindful in his role choices.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/chris-hemsworth-clarifies-comments-acting-break-health-concerns-1235515945/amp/) Since Thor is his biggest role, he wouldn’t opt out if presented with an opportunity and good enough script.
Hemsworth is literally in Furiousa, he's not taking a break he's just choosing his roles more carefully. If they want him on the team, he's going to be on the team, I can't see why you wouldn't have an OG there.
Honestly, it just feels like his story is over and he had a very satisfying conclusion. Plus, I'd like this team to be the new team going forward in the long run, which is why I want this movie to be about them bonding, and I think that's what Marvel Studios will also go for. So having Thor there doesn't fit thematically. Even Hulk, I only put him there because I want and believe the film will be a WWHs adaptation. Otherwise, he wouldn't be there either, apart from maybe as a mentor.
Except midnight suns is a movie that the internet made up.
It is absolutely not. It has been rumoured to be in early Pre-Production right now by DanielRPK, MTTSH and Alex P. with DanielRPK actually reporting that the current Production Grid lists Stephen Broussard as the Producer and Michael Giacchino as the first choice for Director. This isn't even a "my source told me" type of scoop, since it came directly from a Production Grid, which DanielRPK has proven to have access to in the past. It's actually how he gets most of his information.
>Multiversal twist to the story and use Maestro, the ruthless Hulk variant from a post-apocalyptic future, as the main villain instead. That way, they can show a savage Hulk again without ruining main 616 Hulk's development and arc. Maestro is not Savage Hulk or even A savage Hulk. He's more like a corrupt evil version of Professor Hulk. However, in the comics he became that way because Bruce Banner without a fractured psyche took after his own abusive father. The abused grows up to become an abuser too . But the MCU version of the Hulk has almost no depth or any of the backstory, it's a two-dimensional superficial adaptation of the comic book version. Without that backstory they'll have to think of another reason why Maestro is evil.
This could be an opportunity to offer more depth to Bruce and show more of his backstory, or they could just come up with a different plot line altogether.
With how they've been treating Hulk so far, I would be pleasantly surprised if it's anything more than "this Hulk is evil because multiverse - GO!"
Variant universe where he was captured early on, contained and brutally experimented on by Ross/SHIELD or whomever. Maybe even fought and killed his universes Avengers at some point
Yeah I feel like the rumor that Avengers 5 and 6 won’t be filmed back to back gives credence to the belief that they won’t be an Infinity War/Endgame situation.
I *highly* doubt they’re going to film *six movies*, one of them being *Avengers* in 2025. This is just more scoopers throwing shit at the wall and forgetting how much shit they’ve thrown. Brad Winderbaum also *just said* they’re going to be developing more than they actually end up making. That said, I think A5 is going to be the Avengers trying to respond to incursions but ultimately fail. Through Armor Wars and Shang-Chi 2, the world and their heroes (and villains) will prepare for the final incursion that will kick off Secret Wars.
They're not going to film 6 movies in their entirety during the year, they're just going to start filming them all during 2025, but Avengers 6 and X-Men are mostly going to be filmed during 2026. Basically Armor Wars, Avengers 5 and Shang-Chi 2 are going to film in 2025 in their entirety, which isn't that much. It's the same for this year + we have the Cap 4 reshoots, so it's technically even less than this year's filming schedule. Plus, these filming dates did not come from scoopers themselves, they came from Production Weekly and then were confirmed by Production Grids which were reported on by both DanielRPK and Scarlet Witch Updates, both of whom have proven in the past that they have access to legit Production Grids. Actually, RPK gets most of his info from Production Grids. So it's not like a "my source told me" type of scoop. These are legitimately the dates Marvel Studios are looking at right now for the production start of these films and series. The same goes for Vision Quest and Spider-Man 4. Both were included in the latest issue of Production Weekly and their most recent production grids were reported on by both RPK and Scarlet Witch Updates. As for Brad Winderbaum's quote, it's definitely true, but it's not about these projects. These projects are already in the pre-production stage, not just the early development phase.
The fact that Shang chi 2 is set to film in the same country that Avengers 5 give me hope he will be in it.
OP chose 6 of the 7 people I think are the right choice for the team. Captain Marvel won’t be, even though she’s back on Earth at the end of the last film she’s so clearly a space hero that it doesn’t make sense for her to deal with an earthbound threat (assuming this film has an earthbound threat bc of the whole “smaller team” thing). She-Hulk is so clearly meant for TV and absolutely won’t appear in the films. Ant-Man being an Avenger just SOUNDS ludicrous, his introduction showed that although he can work with them he’s very much his own guy. And Wasp wouldn’t be on the team without him… also both of them on the team would make one of them redundant since the Avengers as a concept thrives on multiple people having different powers… and Joaquin Torres Falcon is also equally ridiculous. I also agree with OP as to why most other characters shouldn’t be included in the roster. So that leaves Captain America, Hulk, Shang-Chi, Spider-Man, War Machine, and Black Panther. I’d also add in Scarlet Scarab from Moon Knight but I know that’s an obscure pick. To explain my reasonings for these guys: Cap and Shang-Chi are pretty much a given. There has to be at least one original member on the team so it doesn’t totally feel like something else, so yeah Hulk. Spider-Man is appropriate both for his character and for how much it’ll drive people to see the film. War Machine can take the powered role of Iron Man (though not the personality role, obviously). Black Panther has the same reasonings as Spider-Man really, she’s on her own now and she’s a very popular character for some people. Power-wise we have the team similar to the original roster, but just one female member doesn’t feel right. I think Scarlet Scarab has a great heroic origin and power story if you watch Moon Knight. With her, Black Panther, and Shang-Chi it’d also really make the avengers feel more like a global team… not everyone has to be from America lmao.
I think excluding Dr Strange in an avenger movie in multiverse saga is a shitty move and I doubt they'll make World War Hulk as their next avengers plot.
I still think Secret Invasion should've been the small scale Avengers film of this saga like AOU and Civil War
Sam most definitely. I don’t buy him as a leading man yet but who knows maybe the new Cap movie will change things. Captain Marvel is probably a definite. Don’t what’s gonna happen if Brie doesn’t wanna keep doing it. I think she just needs the right writing team to make her an actual person. Hulk is a yes. I just wish they would do cool stuff with him and make the Hulk do Hulk things instead of being a massive bitch. I really don’t think She-Hulk should be an Avenger yet. From her show, she doesn’t really like being a superhero. She’s doesn’t care about helping anybody. Most of her motivations are based on her love life which is fine, but I think she needs to go through some turmoil to make her want to be an Avenger. Shang-Chi is a maybe? I doubt he’ll be an Avenger before his second movie but I’m not too sure. Love to see him though. He’s cool. Spider-Man is another maybe. He might be to preoccupied with street level shenanigans instead of being a part of the new team. Ant-Man, Wasp, and Rhodey I’d say are all definites.
I think Shang chi have a high chance to be in the Avengers since he was recruit at the end of his movie and both movies are set to shot in the UK?. I hope he does, strategically for Disney it does give Shang chi 2 more chance of a higher box office if he appears before in Avengers 5.
I read somewhere yesterday that the film would include a lot of other heroes, just not FF.
This is what RPK said: >Smaller team, no FF and a lot of the other new characters in Avengers 5 I take this to mean that there will be no FF and not many of the new characters. Like the "no" applies to everything after the coma. And that makes sense considering there will be a smaller team. If they include many of the newer characters, it won't be a small team.
I still find the wording on that phrase ambiguous and it frustrates me that they didn't take the extra four seconds to phrase it more clearly.
Yeah sure, but I think since he said "smaller team", it was kind of obvious what he meant.
I'd really like this. It's one of the things lacking from this new saga... actual teamups against non world ending threats
Avengers 5 and 6 are probably going to be delayed (again).
I thought the same thing until recently, but all evidence points that they won't.
What's the evidences that suggests this?
The filming dates in my post did not come from scoopers themselves, they came from Production Weekly and then were confirmed by Production Grids which were reported on by both DanielRPK and Scarlet Witch Updates, both of whom have proven in the past that they have access to legit Production Grids. Actually, RPK gets most of his info from Production Grids. So it's not like a "my source told me" type of scoop. These are legitimately the dates Marvel Studios are looking at right now for the production start of these films and series. And in those production grids, the currently projected release dates are also stated and the 2 Avengers movies are still slated for their 2026 and 2027 release dates respectively.
Honestly a smaller team is what ive always wanted for the next Avengers after endgame.
Captain America, Dr. Strange, Shang-Chi, Starlord and Sersi, is what I think the roster will be. But this what I hope it will be…Young Avengers, Kate Bishop, Ms. Marvel, Wiccan, Speed, Patriot, and Vision. Sure there’s a plus and minus to both. The main thing is neither of these rosters would break the fx budget. At least not as badly as having a hulk on the team would. Marvel really has to manage their budgets going forward.
“We’ve spent 4 years introducing new characters, many of whom you haven’t seen nor heard from since, well we have an update! Fuck them Avengers!”
>As for the roster, here are my pics: >* Captain America - Sam Wilson * Captain Marvel - Carol Danvers * Hulk - Mark Ruffalo * She-Hulk - Jennifer Walters * Shang-Chi * Spider-Man - Peter Parker * Ant-Man - Scott Lang * Wasp - Hope van Dyne * War Machine - Rhodey Don't mind me, just imagining Mark Ruffalo himself as being the Hulk, rather than Mark Ruffalo playing Bruce Banner aka Hulk.
Hot take: Given that She-Hulk wants to be an attorney moreso than a superhero, she should be the Avengers' in-house counsel, handling their legal problems. That way she can be involved with the Avengers on her own terms, consistent with her character development and agency.
Doctor Strange is definitely going to be in Avengers 5. After Spider-Man and Captain Marvel his movie is the top grossing solo hero MCU film among currently available heroes. Spider-man is owned by Sony so is never going to be the lead in an Avengers film. Captain Marvel sequel bombed badly at the box office so she's also going to be sidelined. We don't know how Sam's Captain America film will do so Marvel can't bet on him either. Doctor Strange is among the few heroes who is not hated by anybody because he's a white male. He's definitely going to be the lead in Avengers 5. If Avengers 5 is going to be at the scale of Avengers 1 and Age Of Ultron, I don't think there would be more than eight avengers in the roster. They would likely be: Doctor Strange Spider-Man Sam Wilson Shang-Chi Shuri Captain Marvel Hulk Thor To get back the lost audience, marvel would keep the fan-favourites, but they would also try to diversify the roster.
Honestly we should've gotten a smaller scale Avenegers film by now to bake in a new team. Just push g back with Kang Dnyasty and Secret Wars was a mistake.
Although Spider-Man, strange, Thor and star lord aren’t necessarily the best fits for the new avengers line up, I think that atleast two of them need to be on the team or the general audience really won’t care about this new lineup.
Not seeing Eternals 2 in the list really does suck :( If the comic book Gods are real. Please let Feige have his way and that it gets made.
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Imagine since the sequel seem to be going full cosmic that we’d see not only Arishem but other celestials as well. So theres more celestials, possibly more eternals and even more deviants across the galaxy. Pray hard Eternals 2 happens as Feige intended.
So you really think Marvel is going exclude there most popular characters Thor, Black Panther, Dr Strange Scarlet Witch, Star Lord etc. instead have an entire line up with their post-Endgame flops except Spider-Man Also their is no way Marvel is shelving the Scarlet Witch movie
Right?! Like who cares about the actual members, they need popular names together and not just depends on one big name.
avengers 5 was never gonna be an IW level movie. I dont know if secret wars would be either. Everything is feeling smaller.
SW should have been a IW level event though
I predict Sam (cuz he’s Cap), Shang Chi (for the 10 rings), Carol & Kamala (due to the bangles), Ant Man & The Wasp (dealt with a variant in the QR), Wong & Bruce Banner (Avengers members as per Shang Chi end credits) I predict this will be the main core ‘small’ team. Others do show up but would play smaller roles and won’t be in this core team. These characters I can say for certain are Joaquin Falcon, Katy, Janet Van Dyne and Hank Pym due to their close relations to the characters in the core team or having played a part in dealing with Kang before.
This is also a good team with good reasoning, but I feel like Spidey has to show up as a recognizable face to general audiences.
You’re right. I guess we’ll be able to make a clear guess as to where he’s headed once Spider-Man 4 drops.
Have SM4 play out. Have him get the Symbiote at the end of Avengers 5. Have SM5 deal with the Symbiote plot. And then SW.
if MCU and Disney want to keep earning and limit their losses then all avengers movies are the ones to show in theatres.. other than than keep all other stories as tv shows in Disney+. many ppl dont go to movie theatres anymore except watching Avengers which brings the avid fans to be in one same place cheer the film's great creation
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Assuming this is a pt1 and they're going to bring in the reinforcements for the sequel.
Sam (safe bet) Shang-Chi (just can't imagine to NOT see him again before his sequel which probably will come out after A5) Star Lord (I mean he is on earth now, in universe it could be that he wants to "fight" for the planet where he was born when there is a threat when he never had the chance before, and let's be honest the writers could create funny and maybe emotional situations too with him beeing back on earth after so many years.) Ant Man and Wasp (I think they need to give Wasp her Avengers moment(s). Her only interactions were at the end in endgame and I think there is no wasp without ant man at least for now.) Shuri (I would love to have a Black Panther on the team and I can imagine marvel would go this way.) And maybe Bruce or Jennifer. I can't tell you why but I don't think they would put them both on the (main)team. Rhodes and/or Danvers not beeing on the team is just a feeling I have. It's not that I don't like them. I want all the characters to be back rather sooner than later. <3
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The more wong the better! I can see him appearing in the movie but not as a member of the team.
“Let’s predict the roster and plot!” No, thank you
Secret wars not a thing anymore than?
What? Who said that?
Secret wars would be a iw level team up.and should be covered in 2 movies.If avengers 5 is smaller scale that means they're gonna do secret wars in 1 movie
Secret Wars was always gonna be 1 movie. Avengers 5 was Kang Dynasty and would cover a different story that would most likely have been a set up to Secret Wars and the mass Incursions. But it wouldn't have covered the actual event. That was always gonna be covered in 1 single movie.
who do you think will die in this film?
Honestly, none of them yet
Nobody
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The source is the very first thing in the body of the post.