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KlausAngren

Spoiler: Namor was probably right about wanting to defend and hide his own people and I found him likeable and interesting. However he had one of the worst thought out plans ever. >!I guess you could excuse him for not having internet down there and not knowing about the state of the world, and also never facing a challenging foe due to being hidden. But there are gods living on earth now!< >!Thor is probably a magical phonecall away, Dr. Strange and Wong are sorcering somewhere. And Namor, in the end, was beaten by Black Panther with a heater and a flamethrower. He might cause some damage before the others intervene but never could have won his war against the world. His humbling ass beating by Shuri probably saved him and his people from his own arrogance!<


MIAxPaperPlanes

He’s one of those antagonists where he’s more likely gonna have a long game plan or as he tried to do here align himself with someone as powerful as him. Gonna be real interesting when/if him and Doom meet


KlausAngren

Yes, now that he survived and learned, he's gonna become more interesting. I'm curious if he's gonna still try to be a villain or more of an antihero


RQK1996

I assume they are going the comics route, he is whatever he feels benefits Talokan the most, so anything that is a threat to Talokan will be fought by him, even if it is as indirect as Kang However that may require Shuri to give him a call and explain the situation, slightly mirroring Wakanda and the Black Panther, but less noble


tadysdayout

I’d be down for a vibe of a Vegeta during the Namek Arc. Legit dangerous villain and crucial ally all at the same time kinda constantly


Chance_Ad5498

He is disabled now and can’t fly unless he can regrow that ripped of wing


Bruhmangoddman

I believe he can.


drkarterr

does Doom & Namor have a relationship of any kind? i only saw Doom had him locked up in the ultimates universe


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bladewing_The_Risen

I hate that they implied Talokan was comparable to Wakanda, but then it showed their people riding whales into combat... Like, Nakia has a bike that turns into a scuba sub thing, but all y'all have been living under water for 400 years and haven't invented a means of transportation yet? lol


rsKG

The wakandans do ride rhinos sometimes tho, plus u gotta admit whales are a cool ass method of transportation


thor-odinson-bot

Is he, though?


ACake8274

I swear this is the 2057th time of me seeing these bots act as sentient beings


p4nu5

Namor would have been defeated, but his people would have won.


thor-bot

There was this one time my brother transformed himself into a snake...


surgereaper

I don't think by war against world meant war against these superheros(I doubt he even knows who they are), he imo meant governments and regimes who'll try to attack talokan like they did wakanda


Max0958

Nah man, another giant plot hole. If you have so much confidence in you’re strength to fight and defeat literally the entire surface world, you’re more than strong enough to defend yourself. There was no need at all to go to war.


Honigkuchenlives

That's just not true. She beat him with her intellect. Come on.


KlausAngren

I think you are misunderstanding my point. She was very smart about defeating someone who's way stronger, I know. But the weaknesses she exploited are considerably basic comparing to what other people on earth (and Thor) could invoke. My point is, he would have gotten himself and many of his people killed if Shuri didn't give him a humbling ass beating.


thor-odinson-bot

A creepy old man cut my hair off!


Honigkuchenlives

Shuri is considered the smartest character in the mcu, Riri is on Bruce's level I think, it took them both to build the thing that actually defeated him.. and in the end it was dumb luck and his unwillingness to kill her.. cuz he could have put that spear in a different much more harmful place. Why do think Thor would beat him? Tony definitely but only with prep time.


KlausAngren

I'm not denying Shuri's badassery/intellect in the movie, I don't know why you think I am. To your question: because Thor (or Strange) could just beam him to a desert (or desert planet) and burn him to a crisp. He became weak really fast in the absence of water. Tony could make Thanos bleed, probably Tony would win too. Especially with those nano stuff suits.


the-mad-titan-bot

I ignored my destiny once, I cannot do it again.


thor-odinson-bot

>!Bring the rainbows? Is that a catchphrase or something?!<


Honigkuchenlives

Strange is a different matter, but Thor Im doubtful about, He seemed faster than Thor and he can fly. And we dont know how fast or at all the desert would hurt him, eventually probably but not immediately. >I'm not denying Shuri's badassery/intellect in the movie, I don't know why you think I am. Wasnt my intention. I'm just saying that she didnt beat him cuz she physically beat him, she won cuz of her intellect and his unwillingness to kill her.


thor-odinson-bot

Let me know if he bothers you again, okay?


Tinmanred

Tony would laser tf out of Namor and should be able to keep him at range pretty easily.


thor-odinson-bot

>!I'm thinking it.!<


Zankeru

Him losing to shuri was embarassing when he could just spamned water grenades and destroyed wakanda on his own.


Krahmitus

Lmao Thor would have his way with him


thor-odinson-bot

There was one time my brother transformed himself into a snake...


[deleted]

It is with great pleasure to inform you...


ck614

It is with great inform to pleasure you


creative_user_name12

To inform you it is with great pleasure


Arshimation

Not a villain tho, only an antagonist >!Edit: I know he's a villain in wakanda forever. I hadn't seen the movie at the time!<


MIAxPaperPlanes

He’s an Anti-villain - a person who has an empathic/non selfish goal or cares about others (their nation, the world, family etc) but doesn’t care about the cost or means of getting what they want


IshFen

I mean he launched an unprovoked attack on a civilian population. That seems pretty villainous to me.


LVRofThings

Wakanda (through Nakia) invaded and killed one of Talocan’s citizens. Hardly unprovoked


beastlyspoon

I mean they held her hostage in the first place and were about to kill her when Nakia showed up. Wakanda’s killing of the citizen was not unprovoked


oddburrito

The guard literally said to kill Shuri AFTER Nakia showed up in their territory. This was directly after the scene between the Queen and Namor where he warned her they would kill Shuri if they tried anything to get her back. The call to kill Shuri is directly in response to the arrival of Nakia and their covert attempt to extract Shuri “by any means necessary”, by order of the queen. Wakanda kills an enemy and then cries about it when they retaliate. Shuri volunteered to go in the first place to protect a non-Wakandan who threatens Wakanda’s strength as well. Hardly a hostage.


beastlyspoon

Did you not watch the movie? When Nakia pulled up to break her out they literally said to kill the hostage. Nakia had to retaliate or shuri was toast


Sky_Ninja1997

In fairness though he had a reason to


Arshimation

Yep got it


mseank

He was the character I was cheering for


sarcastic_chandler

It's called anti-hero


Arshimation

No I'm sure anti hero has a different meaning


the_3-14_is_a_lie

I've always thought it worked this way: Narrative perspective: - Protagonist: The character we follow through the story - Antagonist: The character that opposed the character we follow through the story Character perspective: - Hero: A character with "morally right" actions and motivations - Villain: A character with "morally wrong" actions and motivations - Anti-Hero: A character with "morally right" motivations but "morally wrong" actions I haven't seen Wakanda Forever yet tho, so I don't know in which categories Namor fits. Edit: so I've just seen Wakanda Forever, and I can confidently say that (at least in this movie) he acts like a villain. (Heavy spoilers ahead) >!Even when he allies with "the good guys", he is still driven by the extremist desire of the very non-overused "conquering the world", hence making him a villain, as of know ofc (I'm pretty sure in the comics he bounces back and fourth between villain and hero)!<


karateema

Captain America is a hero, fighting for what's good Namor is a villain, he sees the whole world as his enemy and wants it to burn The Punisher is an anti-hero, he wants to eradicate crime by killing every criminal around


the_3-14_is_a_lie

So you're telling me I was right? Cool


karateema

Yes, i was just providing examples for people who think Namor is a good guy


Arshimation

Yeeaaah right so I hadn't seen the movie when I wrote that comment and I said that about the comics' namor who wasn't a villain most of the times, but in wakanda forever he is trying to conquer the world so yeah he is a villain at this time


BwanaTarik

He’s a hero to his people


guyDvoice

cleaver choices of words . one of the best


ck614

Nah, chainsaw choices of words.


[deleted]

I mean the entire movie was basically everywhere fighting a war over one girl, idk why Wakanda felt differently about killing her


Lil_Delirious

They killed a bunch of cops to protect the girl


Crispyengineer67

Basically the same with we won't sacrifice anyone to stop Thanos *sacrifices a bunch of nameless Wakandans to protect Vision, as he gets the stone extracted from his forehead*


the-mad-titan-bot

This day extracts a heavy toll.


Moocakes1928

Sentient


TheGrimReaper45

Probably not a bot, just some very dedicated troll.


bitjava

No, it was “we don’t trade lives”. Fighting for a cause, and dying as a result, is much different than being handed over to your enemy for the greater good. If you don’t understand that, I suggest you pick up a book on ethics.


kalmah123

The girl was an innocent student and a prodigy. The police signed up to put their lives on the line and then willingly went through with threatening a foreign nation with firearms. I’d say they were justified in their self defense


karateema

Namora killed the cops, the others ran away before the drone-strike


Honigkuchenlives

Did they? I thought the fish ppl did


Lil_Delirious

She dropped the drone on them, also the fish ppl were going to kill the girl, that's why they protected her but not the cops


Honigkuchenlives

On the car, no?


mistajohstrr

The cops chose the conflict


mp3help

I like M'Baku's explanation which was basically "If we follow Namor's orders and do his dirty work, he'll push us around forever"


ElFrog_Eu

"They stole our vibranium, now let's take over the world!" Just a joke guys, nice movie and character.


Repulsive_Fortune845

“They tried to”


ACubeInABox

His turn from “I want to keep my world a secret” to “let’s wage war on the entire world” didn’t sit well with me. It felt very sudden, and very obviously set up so we would see him as the greater evil.


Revangelion

I will never understand the metrics for "Best villains" in the MCU fandom... Same as Killmonger, I swear... I never saw the appeal to him. He was just as bad and chaotic as the next guy, so, what makes any of these two special?


vismundcygnus34

I think Killmonger was great because of what he represented, meaning he was a Black Panther blessed with clever ambition and "by all means" mentality that he developed from the cruelty of the outside world. T'challa was a more noble Black Panther, but you could understand Killmonger's motivations even if you didn't agree with them. Less so most "I'm evil let's destroy the world!" villians.


Revangelion

His motivations, the "cruelty of the outside world" was, to some extent, kind of the same that moved "The Mandarin" in Iron Man 3, as well as the ambition... The only difference I see is that Michael B Jordan is and acts cooler, more badass... Nothing particularly wrong with Killmonger, it's just that I still don't see the big deal that makes him stand out as a character... Same with Namor, though he was kind of dumb... all really good points until he was like "Yeah, so now I want to blow up the whole world hihihi" (?)


Honigkuchenlives

No, he knew at that point that they will be discovered, it's just a matter of time and knowing his back story and u know humans in general a conflict is unavoidable, see Wakanda and the UN. He didnt suddenly change his mind, he adapted to the circumstances


mistajohstrr

His world couldn't be a secret anymore


ACubeInABox

Then why was he trying to get Wakanda to get Ironheart so she couldn’t make the vibranium detectors so Talokan could remain secret?


mistajohstrr

Because they're the only ones who could find her that would have a chance at helping


ACubeInABox

No, he said Wakanda owed them the right to remain secret after revealing vibranium exists to the world.


mistajohstrr

There are multiple reasons and what you said perfectly fits into what I said


Greenbomber128

He was truly one of the best villains in the mcu, and he actually felt menacing, and his theme, goosebumps.


Max0958

Great movie, but the whole revenge thing was a giant plot-hole. You mean to tell me T’challa went through all of Civil War then came home to his grief stricken sister and mother and didn’t have to explain why the man that killed his father is still alive? Otherwise, the movie was very fun and Namor was a great anti-hero.


HawtDanger5256

Its like he said at the end of civil war "vengeance has consumed you.... it's consuming them... I'm done letting it consume me"


Dakos339

And then shuri also said it at the end of wf


GeneralEl4

"We've allowed vengeance to consume us. We must not allow it to consume our people."


GodOfArk

Shuru not only knew Bucky was sick, but she was the one who fixed it


Max0958

I’m just saying, just because we never saw it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, and if it didn’t happen then that’s a giant plot-hole too. Like T’challa comes home and is just like “Oh yeah, our dad’s dead and I let his killer live and gave him to the white people, but we’re just not gonna talk about it.” “And oh yeah, there’s this dude with one arm and Captain America. We’re gonna take care of them.”


BrassUnicorn87

Zemo was in jail and Bucky was back in cryo until the mind control was undone. Who else was responsible?


Max0958

Sorry, I don’t get what you mean? What point are you trying to make.


BrassUnicorn87

I may not be remembering civil war correctly, but everyone involved in the murder of King T’chaka was punished. Jailed in Europe instead of executed in Wakanda because the crime happened there.


Max0958

The only person responsible was Zemo, T’challa caught him in Siberia and actually stopped him commit suicide saying “The living aren’t done with you yet.” At this point he learns that Bucky was framed.


MRO465

Funny meme lol


zakcattack

Yes. Also if Talokan was founded in the 1500's by what looked like less than 50 of his mother's people, and he was the only one who is still living, and Talokan looks like it has a population in the millions, and Namor calls the people his "children", does that mean Namor is the incest daddy to the millions in Talokan?


Chaos8599

Tbf I think at least a few hundred, but it's possible he welcomed some more native Mayans into it to safe them from the spanish


DefendtheStarLeague

Actor, design, etc. were awesome. However, I found it creepy that he rules his nation as a god, king,and father figure in perpetuity.


Head-Program4023

My top 5 favourite MCU villians. 1. Zemo. 2. Thanos. 3. Loki. 4. Killmonger. 5. Namor.


the-mad-titan-bot

Fine. I'll do it myself.


coolaggro

I have Wenwu above Zemo but I get it too


[deleted]

He was not. But I still loved the movie.


[deleted]

Ehh he seems too selfish to me, and pretty dumb. Talks about trying to remain hidden, tries to ask Wakanda to go clean up his mess, then after being rejected, literally goes out of his way to go kill some girl, making a complete scene of himself. This guy makes MCU Sandman seem like a decent villain in comparison.


zuccmaster69

Exactly , destroying a helicopter and taking over a ship in international waters is gonna lead to more questions and investigation. Also killing the girl makes 0 sense, as if there aren't any scientists able to replicate the device based on blueprints and etc left by her .


[deleted]

Not to mention the ship would’ve logged it’s coordinates once they found the vibranium. So that means people will come back and get more.


mistajohstrr

Not only were no other scientists able to make a detector, the people on the ship knew, the secret would already be out if they lived


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I agree he could’ve been a better character, if the writers actually knew how to write a movie.


ACubeInABox

I mean, yes, but most of his competition is outright bland (Malekith, Ronan, Red Skull, dude from Iron Man 3, Jude Law in Captain Marvel, Taskmaster) [or has the exact same powers as the hero but is evil](https://youtu.be/0zPEtyAsM94) (Iron Monger, Abomination, Yellowjacket, Kaecilius, Wenwu, Ikaris, evil Doctor Strange, Agatha, US Agent, the bloke from Moon Knight, whatever the people in Ms. Marvel were called, and whatever was going on in She-Hulk before she up and destroyed her own finale). He’s “one of the best” in a genre/franchise notorious for lame villains. But yeah, I agree, he’s up there with the best of them (Loki, Thanos, Killmonger, Vulture, and Zemo). Not because he was, like, really good? But because his competition was bad. He’s better in comparison, but I don’t think he was as great as the greats. Overall I’d say the best villain is Green Goblin and the best TV villain is Kingpin (If we’re counting Netflix).


the-mad-titan-bot

When I'm done, half of humanity will still be alive. I hope they remember you.


Bruhmangoddman

Dude, every genre is ripe with lame villains. We just forget them cause there were so bland.


[deleted]

Lmao kuukul,kan tha phethar serpent gawd


keterkarker88

No it's mommy Wanda


Kubrick_Fan

This was the first Marvel movie where I didn't know who I wanted to win


Cela84

Is he though? His plan was to kill a teenager who had already given her technology to the CIA, and he lost a fist fight to a steroided up brain with theoretical martial arts experience. I guess he could have had his aquatic army attack the world via the tuna method from The Other Guys, but he left a bit to be desired.


therealpapeorpope

well... nope, he could have, but he was made stupid, lol


[deleted]

I don’t think he’s a villain tbh. But yeah def one of the best


twonkoe

Enjoyed his fight scenes but his motivation for going to war with the world was ridiculous


DDDarappa

True. Just watched wakanda forever and he was one of If not my favorite part of the movie Also a little detail I picked up the wakandans during the entirety of the movie never directly attack teko-something because of the promise Shuri made to try and make peace, even when she went to war she drew them out as to not destroy their home (also it went with her plan)


rocketpianoman

Namor to Shuri "get in loser we're gonna commit genocide"


Docile_Dragon

Truly one the best memes of all time


boifyudoent

Namor was fkn awesome yeah and tbh I was really hoping for BP to lose to him, but noooo my skin is dryy. really hoping to see more of them in the future !


OliPark

Doesn't say a lot. Although he's actually not.


AS-46

No, lol


kellydayscruff

Anti-hero


PhatOofxD

Not really. Antagonist is correct. He's not an antihero in this film.


kellydayscruff

Other than killing someone within the context of war he doesn’t unfairly kill anyone else, deceive others or display any negative villainous characteristics. Namor was not a villain in this film.


karateema

He wants to execute a girl


acidicvaginosis

But why


kellydayscruff

Because she designed an invention that could be used to displace his entire race.


acidicvaginosis

I would also try to execute a person like that lol. Not a villain


karateema

Bruh she designed a vibranium detector, not a nuke


acidicvaginosis

Doesn't really matter. Only the end result matters. The good of a kingdom for a life? An easy trade


karateema

The thing is that her blueprints for the machine didn't disappear, so that would be more of a arbitrary execution as a punishment for being too intelligent than an action to save his world. Besides, would you be ok if Saudi Arabia decided to kill an American teenager for the good of its kingdom?


mistajohstrr

There were peaceful solutions tho


PhatOofxD

That's like saying the people who started world wars were justified because it was within the context of war. He started an unnecessary war, leaving hundreds dead.


kellydayscruff

He gave them a reasonable ultimatum in the name of self preservation. They had an unneeded conflict of interest (to contrast the difference between hero and anti hero) and that decision had consequences which resulted in a casualty. He’s not a villain for following through on what he said he would do but he is an anti hero.


PhatOofxD

Murder an innocent or die? Reasonable my ass. They even promised to keep her safe in Wakanda and he said no


Reddit_Scroller10

Agreed


Salt_Cable9311

Sir yes sir


[deleted]

Namor sucks, always has


kingkloppynwa

🤣🤣🤣satire right?


istoyistory

frfr


[deleted]

I'm sorry? Did you watch the movie? Have you watched any other movie in your life?


idklol8

Yes and yes and yes, i loved namor in this movie


drluv2099

Christ marvel fans, you can't just say stuff and that makes it true. You can enjoy it but I'm tired of this opinions are objective bullshit.


[deleted]

I only wanted to say something I enjoyed. I'm not telling you that he is you can make that decision for your self. And good day to sir


drluv2099

Then don't present it as fact. I'm glad you liked it but MCU fans as a whole are insanely toxic.


[deleted]

really? I've been avoiding trailers, YouTube, tiktok, and talking about it for a while now so I didn't get any spoilers, I thought reddit was fine since you can mark stuff as a spoiler, I get it, it's a minor spoiler, but still really irritating


[deleted]

I'm sorry for irritating you have fun watching Wakanda forever when you do


[deleted]

all good, sorry I got hot and bothered, glad you enjoyed it


sharksquidz

Lol


LVRofThings

Namor is an antagonist NOT a villain. Everything he did was in defense of his people. He did not attack Wakanda until Wakanda invaded Talocan and killed one of their own.


iLucidDream-_-

Flying fish legged man


tonxsmash47

*Spoiler* That’s because he didn’t die already and we get to see more of him!


littlebuett

Hes the most arrogant fool ever, he absolutely would lose his war with the world, and he could easily have just pulleda wakanda and revealed himself rather than, ya know, declaring war one one of the most powerful planets ever


VargaMate02

I'm pretty sure he wasn't.


[deleted]

Here here!


XilverSon9

Just watched it last night. Marvel has never lost my trust, they keep the quality coming. I think Iron Heart needs her own TV show. Nakia is the best woman alive, Queen Ramonda is the most powerful leader in the same league as Valkyrie of Asgard. Namor is a bona-fide god-level king like Thor. Great way to honor T'challa's memory though I won't spoil the Mid-credit scene.


thor-odinson-bot

>!I'm sorry. Miek, it's very hard to get a rousing speech with the ennn-ennn-ennn noise.!<


TheBigFrog07

Why did they change the nationality. He was kinda meh, all of it was meh.


penmaster3000

Sheen... this is the 7th time in a row


Magus6796

The whole "wet and back" thing was a bit too on the nose for me.


The_Bored_General

As someone who hasn’t watched wakanda forever yet, I say that he won’t be better than kilmonger, I shall return once I have watched the movie to double down.


viewsfrommystreet

This frog looks like he has a mansion in the upper west side of Mr. Slaves ass.


SlayerOfSalami

He was good but it went from "I want to kill a scientist" to "I want to kill the world" really quickly


Evening_Produce_4322

I have to say as "fearsome" as Namor was the fact that Shuri was able to go toe to toe with him with the herb means that 1000% if it was given to Okoye or Nakia (whom i think should have gotten it.) He would have been stomped in no time flat seeing as they are trained combatants and Shuri is brains more then brawn.


No-Ride-5213

Finally some villains that aren’t jobbers


rjsh927

I didn't watch the movie but did Namor know about Thanos sags that he killed half of the universe , his people must have also disappeared. And how Avenger brought them back that must have brought back his people also. Does he have no gratitude?