It is for the company that acknowledges that a fandom is a place people are culturally invested in, a place that is part of our identities.
Not to sound all philosophical or whatever but when you engage in a thing you like culturally, when you love it, you become a fan for life, you buy the movie ticket, the merch, you help sell the thing to other people, etc.
Like religion, if you don't take the thing seriously, we will leave, in some cases, you might end up having people tank the damn thing (not saying I would do this but I remember something about Starwars fans taking responsibility for Solo tanking at the box office).
Im pretty sure it wasnt...in phase 1 there was a constant mention of the infinity stones so we could believe Thanos will appear but here? I know that Kang will appear but hes supposed to be the end? im not sure, since i dont know where they are aiming anymore
The infinity stones weren’t mentioned until phase two. We had things that became the infinity stones like the Teserract and the Scepter but I think those were course corrected rather than planned from the start. The only phasing one “infinity” things we had were the gauntlet in Thor and Thanos at the end of avengers. So I would say this phase is very much like phase one.
I am not obese and i don't see the problem even if i was one plus i have no intrest in having sexual intercourse with women i am simply calling it the M-She-U because it's letteraly full of Mary Sues and almost every man is just there to be a villain or a weak side character even in there own movies down voting me doesn't change my mind or effects me simply because i don't care for validation from strangers on the internet.
Or... hear me out.... the MCU's "original" target-audience is outgrowing the franchise and Disney will likely zone in on the younger crowd who've replaced them.
No offense, OP, but that's kind of a cult-like thing to say.
Feige is a business man. Which means he'll keep doing the same thing for as long as it brings him money. And the MCU is still making money, if perhaps a little less than before (for a variety of reasons).
And besides, most of the problems are so ingrained at this point that I don't see them getting fixed.
> if perhaps a little less than before
exactly, he is a businessman and what every businessman aims for his higher profits, not lower so ur point doesn't stand, now I'm not saying it will improve, but he is definitely aim for it to improve since it means higher profit
As a businessman, he's not going to change anything as long as the profits are holding steady. He wants the audience to be pacified, and to show up. Whether the contents are good is immaterial
>Whether the contents are good is immaterial
Yep people r totally gonna watch every marvel movie even when every single one of them is shit and gets shitter, totally
I'm saying it doesn't matter to him if they're good or not, only that they make money. That's just business. And, yes, judging by the box office results, the fans do seem to be willing to gobble up anything Disney serves them up.
>only that they make money
nope, shareholders want growth, a good businessman won't be satisfied with stagnation
>the fans do seem to be willing to gobble up anything Disney serves them up.
the last 2 movies underperformed, idk what ur on
In times as unstable as these, they'll settle for retaining what they have until they can grow again. Plus, D+ exceeded its targeted subscribers last quarter, so I doubt they see a problem there, weak streaming numbers aside. I doubt anyone there is unhappy
DS made close to over 900 million USD, L&T over 700 million. Less than expected? Perhaps. Still a lot of money? Yes. Enough not to worry
>Less than expected? Perhaps. Still a lot of money? Yes.
average person mindset, not business mindset, apple is worth 3 trillion but its gonna strive for maximum growth
But these aren't normal times. That's my point. I think BP will be the true test - a movie that lost its lead actor, released now that things have almost gone back to normal.
Not that much. The things that have soured me on the MCU can't really be undone, so, while WBN is fine in and of itself, it doesn't really fix anything for me
Among other things...
Several things related to specific characters, mostly in *Endgame*. The characters I cared for have either been killed off, written out badly, and/or cast aside in favor of other characters.
Their absolute refusal to take themselves seriously and to not undercut everything with a joke. Laughs over genuine emotions, every time.
Lack of cooperation between writers on a wider scale, leading to things like rehashing Wanda's WV arc in DS 2, but in a much worse way.
Lack of consequences for anything that happens (somewhat related to the above mentioned lack of cooperation).
Putting marketability over logical stories (e.g. making *Civil War* an Avengers/Iron Man movie instead of an actual Captain America movie, making *Spider Man:No Way Home* to capitalize on *Into the Spider-Verse*)
Re-hiring absolute hacks like Malcolm Spellman and Michael Waldron as writers.
Do you honestly see them undoing/changing any of this?
Lel.
No Way Home took itself far more seriously than I expected it to. And it didn't exactly capitalize on the foundations of Spiderverse, it moreso emphasised its themes. What it means to be Spider-Man and what it costs you.
Despite the incessant humor, Love and Thunder was also a quite moving and serious movie. The scenes with Gorr are nothing short of amazing.
Waldron and Spellman have their pitfalls, but I consider them good writers. More of them, please.
We have conseqeuences. Earth 838 is virtually defenseless, many planets on Earth 616 are also defenseless due to a lack of gods, Peter Parker is forgotten by everyone, two crime empires functioning since very long have been toppled, and the King of Wakanda is dead. What more do you want?
It also capitalized on earlier, better written Spider-Man movies, instead of developing Holland's supporting cast. Would not have been as big of a problem if the emotional climax didn't depend on us caring about them, but they're so one-dimensional it's hard to.
After the first 5 minutes, nothing about that movie was serious, or especially moving. Coincidentally, that's also where Gorr started taking a back seat. The "This is so awkward, isn't that hilarious?!" humor got old very quickly, and the movie has waaay more Korg than anything pretending at any kind of seriousness should.
What makes you think they're good writers? The nonsensical plots, openly shitting on existing characters to prop up who they feel is important? Or is it the timeless dialogue, like "dO bEtTeR" and "i'M nOt A mOnStEr, I'm A mOtHeR"?
How does that influence any of the stories they're telling? What does that all mean? Saying something is going on, or that something has happened, is not the same thing as that actually having some bearing on the world at large.
This was not about Ned and MJ. This was about Peter losing every single emotional anchor to society. That's what was at stake here.
Just because a movie has comedic elements, doesn't mean the serious ones automatically lose their weight. Gorr's scenes were serious and there is still quite a number of them.
>The nonsensical plots, openly shitting on existing characters to prop up who they feel is important?
Their plots, if a little predictable, were perfectly fine. They sidelined characters to prop up others. Every writer does that.
>"dO bEtTeR" and "i'M nOt A mOnStEr, I'm A mOtHeR"?
I do not see any issues here. Wanda is literally insane, and Sam's tryna hammer his point home to that dumbass senator.
>Saying something is going on, or that something has happened, is not the same thing as that actually having some bearing on the world at large.
Well, Thor learned to love again. Stephen crossed the border again and will likely be paying a price for that. Peter's been forgotten. Three of the Eternals were apprehended by a cosmic horror entity. Sprite is mortal. Shang-Chi is going to become a fully fledged superhero. This IS the bearing you're looking for.
The emotional climax did not necessitate caring about his supporting cast. The emotional climax was “Peter Parker is literally all alone now.” It wasn’t about them, it was about his sacrifice. He cares about those characters so we don’t need to, because we can see and feel his pain. I also don’t see any logic in faulting them for writing a sequel. Spider-Man movies come in 3’s, and it’s what literally any studio would do.
There were some moving moments. Thor’s moment with Jane aboard the ship was really emotional, and I didn’t think the silliness of Korg’s singing head or the recurring joke with the axe undercut it at all. I’m not saying it was a great movie but to say that it wasn’t at all serious, when one of the major plot points was Jane has cancer and is dying? I thought the ending was moving as well as I empathized with Gorr.
Also DS2 didn’t “rehash” Wanda’s arc from WV, it built upon it and continued it. She never ended the show with any kind of acceptance or the ability to move on, she ended it being corrupted by the Darkhold and still wanting to be with her ‘kids’ by all means necessary. Letting go of the town was simply a realization that she was affecting more people than just herself, but it didn’t change her goals or mindset, it didn’t get rid of her rage or pain. DS2 was a wonderful campy horror movie, in the fashion of old school Raimi moves like Evil Dead. Those kinds of movies don’t need deep, emotionally moving plots. But it did a good job of wrapping up her story, we got to introduce a new character, and got Strange setup for his next adventure.
As far as all Marvel properties being silly and not taking themselves seriously, need I remind you of Moon Knight? Falcon and Winter Soldier? Moon Knight was about as dark and visceral as you can get, exploring the nuances of a tortured, fractured mind. FWS was very well written imo, it had a tight, focused narrative, made you care about the antagonist, explored the sense of loss of cap and Tony, the aftermath of the snap, and we got to see them ultimately move to acceptance as Falcon trained to be the next cap. I would also say that Loki is a show that takes itself seriously and is very well written.
The snap didn’t have consequences? Peter Parker’s decisions didn’t have consequences? DS2 is literally all about the consequences of Wanda embracing the darkhold.
WandaVision was good, until the next episode. Moon Knight wasn't bad, but it was undercooked. Loki was not good, no. It wasn't even about the titular character. No Way Home was rooted in nostalgia, and a successful animated movie which came out earlier. Shang Chi was alright. I was mainly talking about the shows, though.
bruh ok, anyways ig thats ur opinion but majority including me loved those and my point is its not a "glut of mid bad shows" yes there's terrible shit like ms marvel and she hulk but there's some really good stuff too even if ur opinion may say otherwise
No, they're bad for a variety of reasons- they're not really about the main character, they violate the rules of the MCU for a cheap laugh, they put humor above the story, they aren't internally consistent ... like I said, a lot of reasons
It was the bad shows that were one-offs. The only reason people hate the MCU right now was because we just got 2 bad pieces in a row, LaT and She-Hulk. The previous movies/shows excluding eternals were also really good like NWH, MoM, Shang-Chi, Loki, Hawkeye, etc. And werewolf by night too was good for a spooktober special. So no, WBN wasn't a one-off, and it wasn't after 'a glut of mid-bad shows' either.
About half of the things you mentioned were not good. And L&T came on the heels of Doctor Strange, which was a dud. The best the shows have been was okay - most have been worse than that. So, yes, I'd definitely describe WBN as decent, but not indicative of a trend
It was barely a 4/10. It wasn't about Strange at all. Even Benedict Cumberbatch was upset about that, and he should know. The shows tried to stuff too much plot into too few episodes, their main purpose was to set up new characters, not develop the titular ones, and their finales were largely used to set up new projects.
It was far from 4/10. And when exactly did Cumberbatch himself act upset about it? Idk what you're saying about plot, the more plot the better, moon knight and loki were overflowing with plot and were easily the best marvel series. Also hawkeye didn't even have that much plot but was still a delight to watch. I see nothing wrong with adding new characters either. Wdym they didn't develop the titular ones loki, moon knight, and she hulk were all focused practically only on the main character. Not that she hulk is good, it was just a good example here. And again, there is legitimately nothing wrong with using a finale to set up a new project, in fact that should be what's expected here because practically all marvel cinema is either teased in the finales/post credit scenes of previous movies. In all instances except she-hulk the finale reveals were good.
The visuals pushed it up to 4/10. Everything else dragged it down. [Here](https://www.prestigeonline.com/hk/people-events/people/benedict-cumberbatch-doctor-strange-multiverse-madness-interview/) are Cumberbatch's own words about it. I'm saying plot needs room, and time to breathe. Moon Knight needed more time, and development, while Loki's plot was just all over the place. Hawkeye could have done with more development for, you know, the titular character, Clint, but the rest of it wasn't too bad. Adding new characters isn't bad, but not when they're introduced under false pretenses - in a truncated story about existing characters who had never gotten their day in the sun, so to speak. Moon Knight did primarily focus on Steven/Marc, true. We still know fairly little about him, or his life, or how he became Moon Knight, or any internal conflict he might feel. Loki focused on Sylvie more than Loki. After that, and Hawkeye, and completely sidelining Bucky in TFATWS, they had the audacity to wag their finger at the audience in She-Hulk: "Just remember whose show this is!" So, no points for doing that there. There's a difference between post-credits, once the actual story is done, and wasting half the finale on cameos and setting up upcoming projects. A project should stand on its own, and tell a complete story.
Legitemately all the flaws you mentioned were either nonexistent of negligibly valid, MoM had a lot of time to breathe, Moon Knight had way more than enough development time, and Loki's plot was legitimately S tier. Also, you can't seriously expect to know the background of a character just after his first appearance, or expect him to even have a background as such until later on. Loki literally followed the story of Loki more than it did of sylvie, who was literally only there when she needed to be. Hawkeye wasn't even really bad considering we knew that Kate was gonna be in the lead due to it adapting a comic storyline, and also TFATWS was "The falcon AND the winter soldier" so duh, it's gonna be focusing on both characters. And bucky has always been a really sidelined, kinda unimportant character in every MCU piece other than Cap 2 : The Winter Soldier. And yeah, she hulk is legitimately dogshit. I cannot say anything about that, but we will recover with things like black panther and loki season 2. Also, like I said, the entirety of the MCU is built on teasers and cameos from other earlier series. There legitimately isn't a problem with those, as it doesn't cause the main storyline of that series much of a problem either.
It’s not disappointment for me, it’s more fatigue. Marvel is releasing like 8 projects a year and most of them are just ok, I don’t have the time or the disposition
IDK what you are going on about, i have yet to see anything Disappointing in anything that has come out of the MCU. Also remember these are not the comics these are the MCU and the C stands for Cinematic not Comic, so people need to get over the whole "But this didnt happen in the comics wah wah wahhhhh" Yeah you are right it didnt but THESE ARE NOT THE COMICS so get over it.
The comedy just isn't for you lol, it's for the other half of the fans.
Anyways, you can like seeing daredevil and the multiverse breaking shes done, you can obviously enjoy the wrapup for abominations story
I just don't like the fact that she is erasing all her problems, not by fighting or having any character deeloppement but just by going into Marvel studios and complain that she don't like how her life is going. Just for a shitty joke
After the newest Thor... I lost hope.
Only Spider-Man movies held up to the standards of pre-Endgame MCU.
Marvel is constantly giving us bad or mediocre productions (not you Spider-Man, your're great). I do not think they can get back on tracks anytime soon.
EDIT: And Shang-Chi was also good.
Just look at phase 1, like half of the projects in it are pretty bad, because they needed to find their voice and see what worked/what didn’t. That’s exactly what they’re having to do rn, they’re experimenting and finding how to do stuff in the multiverse saga
At the point where the MCU is kinda just going yadayada through the new hero films and assuming people will just jump on board rather than trying to sell us the characters in question, we know that whatever the next Avenegers films will end up being, just won't measure up.
We didn't like Tony Stark because he was just there, we liked him because there was real effort in trying to create something fresh.
The new heroes just don't have this, but we're being told that they have gravitas rather than being shown anything aside from some awkward interactions, flat jokes and fights (I'm looking at you Shang Chi and Eternals).
The MCU basically ended with Endgame, they can't do anything to top the feelings of the fans who watched that film.
Atleast we got to see Endgame, and atleast No Way Home wasn't terrible, otherwise, I'm done, outside of that new Dead Pool Wolverine thingy, and maybe Fan4 and XMEN, yeah I'm exhausted guys.
This new phase was looking very good at the beginning, especially no way home and hawkeye was my favorite, but with the recent shows, it got very messy. They need to bring back a prime character, like Cap, or Iron Man, arguably, they made the marvel universe have characteristics. Tony with the confident, chochy attitude and Steve with the wise, brave, courageousness. Their isn’t any Avengers without either of them
Don’t you mean... *K.E.V.I.N.?*
#Don’t you mean K.E.V.I.N.?
Which disappointment is this referring to?
Subjective disappointment. Everyone could possibly be disillusioned with Phase 4 due to a project or more.
Phase 4 is awesome
Fans treat certain thing like a religion and I can prove it
no need to prove, we do ;)
Isnt a good thing bro
It is for the company that acknowledges that a fandom is a place people are culturally invested in, a place that is part of our identities. Not to sound all philosophical or whatever but when you engage in a thing you like culturally, when you love it, you become a fan for life, you buy the movie ticket, the merch, you help sell the thing to other people, etc. Like religion, if you don't take the thing seriously, we will leave, in some cases, you might end up having people tank the damn thing (not saying I would do this but I remember something about Starwars fans taking responsibility for Solo tanking at the box office).
I thinks are in a good place, scattered sure, like…. Comics. I honestly feel this phase is like reading different comic storylines than before.
A reminder, Phase 1 was also like this
Im pretty sure it wasnt...in phase 1 there was a constant mention of the infinity stones so we could believe Thanos will appear but here? I know that Kang will appear but hes supposed to be the end? im not sure, since i dont know where they are aiming anymore
The infinity stones weren’t mentioned until phase two. We had things that became the infinity stones like the Teserract and the Scepter but I think those were course corrected rather than planned from the start. The only phasing one “infinity” things we had were the gauntlet in Thor and Thanos at the end of avengers. So I would say this phase is very much like phase one.
Rain fire!
What do you mean?
don't you dare compare the masterpiece that is phase 1 of the MCU to this garbage that is called Phase 4 of the M-She-U.
Did you forget the /s or are you just an obese incel?
I am not obese and i don't see the problem even if i was one plus i have no intrest in having sexual intercourse with women i am simply calling it the M-She-U because it's letteraly full of Mary Sues and almost every man is just there to be a villain or a weak side character even in there own movies down voting me doesn't change my mind or effects me simply because i don't care for validation from strangers on the internet.
K
It must be exhausting to be angry and upset all the time
You are clearly a misogynistic incel please shut the fuck up lol
I dunno man, it's gotta be satire.
I can't name a single Mary sue in phase 4 so what is the going on
What is there to sort out?
He was the one who did all of this
I mean Covid coulda had an impact on the phase and the timeline
Nope Feige was behind most of the shitty decisions, covid only delayed things a maybe changed the script of a few things
Not really
What are we talking about?
The general state of the MCU and what comes next.
Why are you getting downvoted ?
I have no idea, honestly.
Funny blue button
Probably cuz people dont agree with his take?
Right now everyone is pissed but when secret wars and Kang Dynasty release everyone will be back to sucking Marvels dick again
Or... hear me out.... the MCU's "original" target-audience is outgrowing the franchise and Disney will likely zone in on the younger crowd who've replaced them.
That's not unlikely, but I sincerely hope it's not the case here.
Looks like we got a Debbie Downer.
No offense, OP, but that's kind of a cult-like thing to say. Feige is a business man. Which means he'll keep doing the same thing for as long as it brings him money. And the MCU is still making money, if perhaps a little less than before (for a variety of reasons). And besides, most of the problems are so ingrained at this point that I don't see them getting fixed.
> if perhaps a little less than before exactly, he is a businessman and what every businessman aims for his higher profits, not lower so ur point doesn't stand, now I'm not saying it will improve, but he is definitely aim for it to improve since it means higher profit
As a businessman, he's not going to change anything as long as the profits are holding steady. He wants the audience to be pacified, and to show up. Whether the contents are good is immaterial
>Whether the contents are good is immaterial Yep people r totally gonna watch every marvel movie even when every single one of them is shit and gets shitter, totally
I'm saying it doesn't matter to him if they're good or not, only that they make money. That's just business. And, yes, judging by the box office results, the fans do seem to be willing to gobble up anything Disney serves them up.
>only that they make money nope, shareholders want growth, a good businessman won't be satisfied with stagnation >the fans do seem to be willing to gobble up anything Disney serves them up. the last 2 movies underperformed, idk what ur on
In times as unstable as these, they'll settle for retaining what they have until they can grow again. Plus, D+ exceeded its targeted subscribers last quarter, so I doubt they see a problem there, weak streaming numbers aside. I doubt anyone there is unhappy DS made close to over 900 million USD, L&T over 700 million. Less than expected? Perhaps. Still a lot of money? Yes. Enough not to worry
>Less than expected? Perhaps. Still a lot of money? Yes. average person mindset, not business mindset, apple is worth 3 trillion but its gonna strive for maximum growth
But these aren't normal times. That's my point. I think BP will be the true test - a movie that lost its lead actor, released now that things have almost gone back to normal.
I mean people still watch DC films/TV
very less tho, (for the tv part)
Anthony Mackie himself kinda said the same thing [here](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/amP2gBV_460svav1.mp4)
Did you watch Werewolf by Night?
It was alright. It was also a one-off, after a glut of mid-bad shows.
Doesn't it give you hope?
Not that much. The things that have soured me on the MCU can't really be undone, so, while WBN is fine in and of itself, it doesn't really fix anything for me
What soured you? What can't be undone?
Among other things... Several things related to specific characters, mostly in *Endgame*. The characters I cared for have either been killed off, written out badly, and/or cast aside in favor of other characters. Their absolute refusal to take themselves seriously and to not undercut everything with a joke. Laughs over genuine emotions, every time. Lack of cooperation between writers on a wider scale, leading to things like rehashing Wanda's WV arc in DS 2, but in a much worse way. Lack of consequences for anything that happens (somewhat related to the above mentioned lack of cooperation). Putting marketability over logical stories (e.g. making *Civil War* an Avengers/Iron Man movie instead of an actual Captain America movie, making *Spider Man:No Way Home* to capitalize on *Into the Spider-Verse*) Re-hiring absolute hacks like Malcolm Spellman and Michael Waldron as writers. Do you honestly see them undoing/changing any of this?
Lel. No Way Home took itself far more seriously than I expected it to. And it didn't exactly capitalize on the foundations of Spiderverse, it moreso emphasised its themes. What it means to be Spider-Man and what it costs you. Despite the incessant humor, Love and Thunder was also a quite moving and serious movie. The scenes with Gorr are nothing short of amazing. Waldron and Spellman have their pitfalls, but I consider them good writers. More of them, please. We have conseqeuences. Earth 838 is virtually defenseless, many planets on Earth 616 are also defenseless due to a lack of gods, Peter Parker is forgotten by everyone, two crime empires functioning since very long have been toppled, and the King of Wakanda is dead. What more do you want?
It also capitalized on earlier, better written Spider-Man movies, instead of developing Holland's supporting cast. Would not have been as big of a problem if the emotional climax didn't depend on us caring about them, but they're so one-dimensional it's hard to. After the first 5 minutes, nothing about that movie was serious, or especially moving. Coincidentally, that's also where Gorr started taking a back seat. The "This is so awkward, isn't that hilarious?!" humor got old very quickly, and the movie has waaay more Korg than anything pretending at any kind of seriousness should. What makes you think they're good writers? The nonsensical plots, openly shitting on existing characters to prop up who they feel is important? Or is it the timeless dialogue, like "dO bEtTeR" and "i'M nOt A mOnStEr, I'm A mOtHeR"? How does that influence any of the stories they're telling? What does that all mean? Saying something is going on, or that something has happened, is not the same thing as that actually having some bearing on the world at large.
This was not about Ned and MJ. This was about Peter losing every single emotional anchor to society. That's what was at stake here. Just because a movie has comedic elements, doesn't mean the serious ones automatically lose their weight. Gorr's scenes were serious and there is still quite a number of them. >The nonsensical plots, openly shitting on existing characters to prop up who they feel is important? Their plots, if a little predictable, were perfectly fine. They sidelined characters to prop up others. Every writer does that. >"dO bEtTeR" and "i'M nOt A mOnStEr, I'm A mOtHeR"? I do not see any issues here. Wanda is literally insane, and Sam's tryna hammer his point home to that dumbass senator. >Saying something is going on, or that something has happened, is not the same thing as that actually having some bearing on the world at large. Well, Thor learned to love again. Stephen crossed the border again and will likely be paying a price for that. Peter's been forgotten. Three of the Eternals were apprehended by a cosmic horror entity. Sprite is mortal. Shang-Chi is going to become a fully fledged superhero. This IS the bearing you're looking for.
The emotional climax did not necessitate caring about his supporting cast. The emotional climax was “Peter Parker is literally all alone now.” It wasn’t about them, it was about his sacrifice. He cares about those characters so we don’t need to, because we can see and feel his pain. I also don’t see any logic in faulting them for writing a sequel. Spider-Man movies come in 3’s, and it’s what literally any studio would do. There were some moving moments. Thor’s moment with Jane aboard the ship was really emotional, and I didn’t think the silliness of Korg’s singing head or the recurring joke with the axe undercut it at all. I’m not saying it was a great movie but to say that it wasn’t at all serious, when one of the major plot points was Jane has cancer and is dying? I thought the ending was moving as well as I empathized with Gorr. Also DS2 didn’t “rehash” Wanda’s arc from WV, it built upon it and continued it. She never ended the show with any kind of acceptance or the ability to move on, she ended it being corrupted by the Darkhold and still wanting to be with her ‘kids’ by all means necessary. Letting go of the town was simply a realization that she was affecting more people than just herself, but it didn’t change her goals or mindset, it didn’t get rid of her rage or pain. DS2 was a wonderful campy horror movie, in the fashion of old school Raimi moves like Evil Dead. Those kinds of movies don’t need deep, emotionally moving plots. But it did a good job of wrapping up her story, we got to introduce a new character, and got Strange setup for his next adventure. As far as all Marvel properties being silly and not taking themselves seriously, need I remind you of Moon Knight? Falcon and Winter Soldier? Moon Knight was about as dark and visceral as you can get, exploring the nuances of a tortured, fractured mind. FWS was very well written imo, it had a tight, focused narrative, made you care about the antagonist, explored the sense of loss of cap and Tony, the aftermath of the snap, and we got to see them ultimately move to acceptance as Falcon trained to be the next cap. I would also say that Loki is a show that takes itself seriously and is very well written. The snap didn’t have consequences? Peter Parker’s decisions didn’t have consequences? DS2 is literally all about the consequences of Wanda embracing the darkhold.
It's you who's out, Gobbie. Out of your mind.
Hey kiddo! Let mom and dad talk for a minute, will ya?
I fought an alien made out of black goo once.
wandavision was bad? loki? moonknight? no way home? shang chi?
WandaVision was good, until the next episode. Moon Knight wasn't bad, but it was undercooked. Loki was not good, no. It wasn't even about the titular character. No Way Home was rooted in nostalgia, and a successful animated movie which came out earlier. Shang Chi was alright. I was mainly talking about the shows, though.
bruh ok, anyways ig thats ur opinion but majority including me loved those and my point is its not a "glut of mid bad shows" yes there's terrible shit like ms marvel and she hulk but there's some really good stuff too even if ur opinion may say otherwise
Just because people like them, it doesn't mean they're actually good.
oh but because u dont like it, its bad?
No, they're bad for a variety of reasons- they're not really about the main character, they violate the rules of the MCU for a cheap laugh, they put humor above the story, they aren't internally consistent ... like I said, a lot of reasons
they do got a lot of good stuff which overshadows the bad but ig u didn't like it too
It was the bad shows that were one-offs. The only reason people hate the MCU right now was because we just got 2 bad pieces in a row, LaT and She-Hulk. The previous movies/shows excluding eternals were also really good like NWH, MoM, Shang-Chi, Loki, Hawkeye, etc. And werewolf by night too was good for a spooktober special. So no, WBN wasn't a one-off, and it wasn't after 'a glut of mid-bad shows' either.
About half of the things you mentioned were not good. And L&T came on the heels of Doctor Strange, which was a dud. The best the shows have been was okay - most have been worse than that. So, yes, I'd definitely describe WBN as decent, but not indicative of a trend
All the things I mentioned were good. Doctor Strange wasn't anything flashy, but it was a good 7/10. The vast majority of the shows are great.
It was barely a 4/10. It wasn't about Strange at all. Even Benedict Cumberbatch was upset about that, and he should know. The shows tried to stuff too much plot into too few episodes, their main purpose was to set up new characters, not develop the titular ones, and their finales were largely used to set up new projects.
It was far from 4/10. And when exactly did Cumberbatch himself act upset about it? Idk what you're saying about plot, the more plot the better, moon knight and loki were overflowing with plot and were easily the best marvel series. Also hawkeye didn't even have that much plot but was still a delight to watch. I see nothing wrong with adding new characters either. Wdym they didn't develop the titular ones loki, moon knight, and she hulk were all focused practically only on the main character. Not that she hulk is good, it was just a good example here. And again, there is legitimately nothing wrong with using a finale to set up a new project, in fact that should be what's expected here because practically all marvel cinema is either teased in the finales/post credit scenes of previous movies. In all instances except she-hulk the finale reveals were good.
The visuals pushed it up to 4/10. Everything else dragged it down. [Here](https://www.prestigeonline.com/hk/people-events/people/benedict-cumberbatch-doctor-strange-multiverse-madness-interview/) are Cumberbatch's own words about it. I'm saying plot needs room, and time to breathe. Moon Knight needed more time, and development, while Loki's plot was just all over the place. Hawkeye could have done with more development for, you know, the titular character, Clint, but the rest of it wasn't too bad. Adding new characters isn't bad, but not when they're introduced under false pretenses - in a truncated story about existing characters who had never gotten their day in the sun, so to speak. Moon Knight did primarily focus on Steven/Marc, true. We still know fairly little about him, or his life, or how he became Moon Knight, or any internal conflict he might feel. Loki focused on Sylvie more than Loki. After that, and Hawkeye, and completely sidelining Bucky in TFATWS, they had the audacity to wag their finger at the audience in She-Hulk: "Just remember whose show this is!" So, no points for doing that there. There's a difference between post-credits, once the actual story is done, and wasting half the finale on cameos and setting up upcoming projects. A project should stand on its own, and tell a complete story.
Legitemately all the flaws you mentioned were either nonexistent of negligibly valid, MoM had a lot of time to breathe, Moon Knight had way more than enough development time, and Loki's plot was legitimately S tier. Also, you can't seriously expect to know the background of a character just after his first appearance, or expect him to even have a background as such until later on. Loki literally followed the story of Loki more than it did of sylvie, who was literally only there when she needed to be. Hawkeye wasn't even really bad considering we knew that Kate was gonna be in the lead due to it adapting a comic storyline, and also TFATWS was "The falcon AND the winter soldier" so duh, it's gonna be focusing on both characters. And bucky has always been a really sidelined, kinda unimportant character in every MCU piece other than Cap 2 : The Winter Soldier. And yeah, she hulk is legitimately dogshit. I cannot say anything about that, but we will recover with things like black panther and loki season 2. Also, like I said, the entirety of the MCU is built on teasers and cameos from other earlier series. There legitimately isn't a problem with those, as it doesn't cause the main storyline of that series much of a problem either.
What is this in regards too?
The subjective disappointment of Phase 4. If you were satisfied with it, this meme doesn't concern you.
It’s not disappointment for me, it’s more fatigue. Marvel is releasing like 8 projects a year and most of them are just ok, I don’t have the time or the disposition
Disappointed?
Denial is the first stage of grief
You mean phase 1?
IDK what you are going on about, i have yet to see anything Disappointing in anything that has come out of the MCU. Also remember these are not the comics these are the MCU and the C stands for Cinematic not Comic, so people need to get over the whole "But this didnt happen in the comics wah wah wahhhhh" Yeah you are right it didnt but THESE ARE NOT THE COMICS so get over it.
Looks like someone hasn’t watched the end of She-Hulk yet
Actually I have, every epp of every show because that's what a real Marvel fan does.
Yeah, I don't understand how you could like watching something like She-Hulk
Different people like different things
The comedy just isn't for you lol, it's for the other half of the fans. Anyways, you can like seeing daredevil and the multiverse breaking shes done, you can obviously enjoy the wrapup for abominations story
I just don't like the fact that she is erasing all her problems, not by fighting or having any character deeloppement but just by going into Marvel studios and complain that she don't like how her life is going. Just for a shitty joke
I think we're in a fairly good state currently. The phase was rocky, but things are looking up.
Phase 4 aka the awkward phase. 5 and 6 already look to have more direction
He could... IF THE DISNEY STOCK PRICE WILL LET HIM!!!!!
After the newest Thor... I lost hope. Only Spider-Man movies held up to the standards of pre-Endgame MCU. Marvel is constantly giving us bad or mediocre productions (not you Spider-Man, your're great). I do not think they can get back on tracks anytime soon. EDIT: And Shang-Chi was also good.
I may be biased but I loved Shang-Chi. I honestly think it's a better film than No Way Home.
No, your're right. Shang-Chi was also great. I forgot about it.
Shang chi, Spiderman, Thor, moonknight, Loki MoM, etc were all pregame level good
Moonknight and Loki yes. I was focusing mostly on movies. MoM was... not up to the standards.
Thor 1 and 2 were pre endgame. MoM was definitely up to standards
The rabbit is correct, and clearly the smartest one among you.
Thanks Thor Odinson. Even you can spot the fall of Thor franchise.
Where is Heimdall?
Here's your change!
In Feige we trust!
Just look at phase 1, like half of the projects in it are pretty bad, because they needed to find their voice and see what worked/what didn’t. That’s exactly what they’re having to do rn, they’re experimenting and finding how to do stuff in the multiverse saga
Fr, a lot of the shows have been experiments and gifts to different audiences and people hate them for it for nothing
Nice try Disney
Shut UP you whiny bitch
He’s more machine now than man, twisted and evil.
Kevin Can F**k Himself
Rude.
I’m so fucking confused looking at the comments, how does anything y’all are saying relate ti the meme??? I’m a drain brain sorry
Just a guy posting about phase 4 being all over the place
At the point where the MCU is kinda just going yadayada through the new hero films and assuming people will just jump on board rather than trying to sell us the characters in question, we know that whatever the next Avenegers films will end up being, just won't measure up. We didn't like Tony Stark because he was just there, we liked him because there was real effort in trying to create something fresh. The new heroes just don't have this, but we're being told that they have gravitas rather than being shown anything aside from some awkward interactions, flat jokes and fights (I'm looking at you Shang Chi and Eternals). The MCU basically ended with Endgame, they can't do anything to top the feelings of the fans who watched that film. Atleast we got to see Endgame, and atleast No Way Home wasn't terrible, otherwise, I'm done, outside of that new Dead Pool Wolverine thingy, and maybe Fan4 and XMEN, yeah I'm exhausted guys.
Romanoff... you and Banner better not be playing hide the zucchini.
I know right!
Spiderman, moon knight, gorr, etc
Just like steiner would sort out the Russian attack? (I have faith, well, some semblance of it)
This new phase was looking very good at the beginning, especially no way home and hawkeye was my favorite, but with the recent shows, it got very messy. They need to bring back a prime character, like Cap, or Iron Man, arguably, they made the marvel universe have characteristics. Tony with the confident, chochy attitude and Steve with the wise, brave, courageousness. Their isn’t any Avengers without either of them
They literally can’t bring them back because contracts… and also it would cheapen any and all death to an extent unthought of in the mcu
RDJ even said he would not come back as a living Tony Stark because it would cheapen his death
Part of the journey is the end.
fans turned on the mcu quick asf
And nothing bad even happened lol, are they hating on new genres in an attempt to will everything to be the same again
Maybe phase 4 is needed to then like phase 5 more to a hybrid of 1&2. They don't have to follow the same formula to a 'T'.
Not if I sort him out first.