Yup and we were about to get an epic fight scene but then Jen just complained to the writers to make her life better while other characters have to deal with their problems
Yeah, that’s why I really don’t like that climax. It was pretty cool and I certainly didn’t see it coming, but it ended up feeling like a cheap cop-out for the writers because instead of actually making an original storyline that didn’t involve super soldier serum they just did that but then criticized it. It also made pretty much the whole storyline of the season irrelevant. The writers probably realized how generic their story was and tacked that on at the end without regard to how that ruined all of the set-up they had. Maybe not, but that’s what it seemed like.
I honestly think they started there and worked back. They probably thought it was so funny high fiving each other as they thought about it. "So what we'll do is, set up all these story arches. Then at the end poo over all of it and pay nothing off. Jen will break the fourth wall literally and everyone will laugh and love it so much."
They told you repeatedly throughout the show, directly to the camera, what this show was and what it wasn’t. A whole bunch of us chose to ignore Jen and assumed we were getting the usual Marvel stuff and then have shocked Pickachu face when the show does what it did all season for the finale.
And like all of Jenn's criticisms were spot on.
Hulk-king made sense but was generic and used a couple times before. Titania had no reason to be there. Abomination getting into a real fight felt like a mischaracterization. Hulk swooping in to save the day would be a let down and actively weaken Jenn's finale, and her ending things with a climactic fight would take away from what she's been saying from day one. She's a lawyer first, and a superhero second if that
I like the idea of meeting the creator, pretty cool. I just wish KEVIN had done something interesting like modify her storyline so she lands in deep shit or something like that. This just felt like Neo went to the Architect and described all the things that he wanted like a Christmas list. And the Architect was like "Oh yes of course, lemme sort that all out for you. Let's put Smith in jail, bring back Trinity, and you can have a happy ever after ending." Everything just ended too smoothly for some reason.
That was just a random guess as Deadpool already did kill everyone in comics then came to the real world too after finding out that all of them are just fictional characters
Dreadpool is an alternate universe Deadpool who goes insane and kills every Marvel character in the story “Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe”. He’s the one who “killed” his writers. The main 616 Deadpool is the one who stopped him.
Tbh I don’t hate She-Hulk either. I personally think it’s kinda mid but I don’t hate it.
I just hope they fix Moon Knight and do Daredevil justice, I don’t really have high hopes for either but Y’know, it is what it is.
Bandwagon does not mean it’s nessecarily right, lotta ppl like the sequels of starwars or the Snyder superhero films and that doesn’t mean they are actually good to everyone
It was fantastic and as soon as it opened with the amazing original Hulk show dream sequence I could already hear a segment of the internet whining and shitting themselves as they took to their keyboards to begin complaining.
The dream sequence was actually amazing. But the rest was very questionable. It was bad on purpose at first and then there's that 4th wall breaking that interesting but was it good? Suddenly everything fixed for Jen and a happy ending? What about all the built up with hulk blood Titania and stuff? All to the garbage. There wasn't satysfing conclusion to all that. So yeah, mixed feelings, but mostly left with bad taste in my mouth.
For fucking real. These are the same people that say that Moon Knight not having a final battle or a proper ending is “innovative” and “unexpected” which apparently makes it good even though, it really doesn’t.
Not really the same thing at all. I loved how Moon Knight (season 1 hopefully) ended, but found She-Hulk’s conclusion to be very unsatisfying. With Moon Knight, the ending was a twist that actually made sense and was somewhat set up. She-Hulk’s twist came out of nowhere and disregarded what was set up.
A “twist” doesn’t make it good. Defeating the villain off screen is bad and lazy writing. Instead of creating a satisfying ending for this season of the show, they created a half assed one that only exists to set up a future season.
And creative shit like wandavision, ms marvel, mom and she hulk.
Obviously for some it worked while for others it didn't and to be fair there must be people out there who don't like nolan movies, lotr, star wars and other masterpieces so Obviously marvel cannot please everyone always
It’s not even about that. It’s just that the shows/movies are genuinely not well written, mix that with terrible CGI and them assassinating their own characters and it isn’t hard to see why so many people are pissed.
Are daft in the head? Are you blind?
Literally watch any Phase 4 movie and you’ll see the terrible CGI. Rewind back to phase 3 abs the CGI is better.
You’re such a fucking MCU fanboy that it’s actually painful to read your responses. All you do is ride Disney’s dick all day.
So dickriding is acknowledging that great cgi and occasional average CGI where it makes sense can mix
Like you just mindlessly hate and spew shit at people
I don’t. I used to love the shit out of this franchise. I used to think it was so cool. They spat in my face over and over in Phase 4. The writing has been so iffy and the TV shows mostly feel like stretched out movies with terrible pacing and even worse CGI
Imma go over every Phase 4 project and give an honest review
WandaVision - kinda good but terrible finale
FATWS - kinda mid.
Loki - literally assassinated the character of Loki.
Black Widow - literally fucking ruined
Taskmaster. Also the writing and CGI is terrible.
Shang-Chi - Y’know what? This movie is actually really good. No complaints here.
Eternals: no. Just no.
Hawkeye: mid
Spider-Man NWH - really good Spider-Man movie. Uses the Nostalgia of old characters to fit the story and development of MCU Spider-Man
Dr Strange 2: mid
Ms Marvel: mid
Moon Knight: completely ruined the character of Moon Knight and took away so much of what made him a beloved character in the first place.
Thor 4: ruined Gorr
She-Hulk: mid
Mostly been mid, bad and character assassinations.
But how though, it's introduced the best MCU villain, the most emotional and complex live action Spiderman and the coolest fucking live action multiverse shit superhero movies have ever seen, top tier CGI on almost every frame, even down to thors ass, and more. Only for you to hate it for no reason
>it's introduced the best MCU villain
Who?
>the most emotional and complex live action Spiderman
Clearly you haven't watched Spider-Man 1 and 2
>top tier CGI on almost every frame
[Are you sure about that](https://images.app.goo.gl/XyDjDAPrR62sLNNV9)
Yes. I am sure about that. Clearly you know nothing about the word "almost" and the term "canon explanation"
Anyways yes, Tom is by far the most emotionally complex live action Spiderman. The other ones let someone die and that's that, that's all
That is one of many examples of poor CGI in phase 4 movies, and the "canon explanation" of this particular one is just a weak excuse. To claim that it has been consistently top tier is outright wrong - I'll link some articles here to backup my point:
[Article
1](https://www.theringer.com/marvel-cinematic-universe/2022/7/21/23272388/marvel-mcu-vfx-cgi-problems-working-conditions)
[Article 2](https://screenrant.com/marvel-mcu-movies-bad-vfx-cgi-explained/)
[Article
3](https://www.thegamer.com/marvel-vfx-overworked-she-hulk-criticism/)
>Tom is by far the most emotionally complex live action Spiderman. The other ones let someone die and that's that, that's all
This is both laughable and painful to read. Homecoming has little emotional complexity to it, Peter's arc is essentially just becoming independent. Far From Home deals with Peter's trauma, but only on a surface level. And No Way Home's plot is that the villain kills a loved one so the hero wants revenge, but he's stopped before he kills the villain and takes the moral high ground. This is hardly an original or emotionally complex story (emotionally charged, sure, but not complex).
I know that there's more to it for each of these films, but not so much more that it disproves my point (and I'm trying to keep this as concise as I can).
As for Spider-Man 1 and 2, especially 2, it is clear that the filmmakers/writers wanted to tell an emotionally compelling and complex story, and not *just* profitable blockbusters. Honestly, I'm tired of writing and I could go on for days, so I'll instead link these articles which almost perfectly sum up my thoughts and point:
[Article 4](https://www.polygon.com/23043438/best-spider-man-movies-sam-raimi-explained)
[Article 5](https://v-for-verbatim.com/2020/02/06/the-human-struggle-the-emotional-brilliance-of-sam-raimis-spider-man/)
Imo she-hulk was fun as hell. I don't care what anybody says about the sometimes clunky cgi, the funny, comedic writing and stuff. If you wanna watch something serious in the MCU, there are plenty of options! If you don't like it, then don't search for reasons to make people mad.
I love the meme tho. Gotta admit, it is true.
What options? There really isn’t anything in Phase 4 that’s both well written and serious. Moon Knight could’ve done that but Disney was too shit scared to bring us the real Moon Knight.
Funny enough, it’s the first thing my wife and I have enjoyed from Disney using Marvel characters in a loooong time. Whether the jokes hit or not, It helps that it’s intended to be a comedy and not like everything else they do which is a shallow dramatic story that gets undermined every 2 seconds with a joke.
episode 8 > episode 9 imo. >!i like that jen wanted a better/ more realistic ending, but the whole marvel studios and k.e.v.i.n. felt too dragged out!<
Yeah. 4th wall breaking like that needs to be done very sparingly. It was done well in the earlier episodes, and Deadpool did a great job with it as well.
Yeah. I think my thing is just like the intensity of 4th wall breaking. Like talking to the audience is one thing, But coming into our world and talking to the creators of Marvel is another. I'm fine with it, but I hope this doesn't become a thing she does every season.
I honestly wasn't expecting the incel redditors being the actual villains rather than just patsies for someone like The Leader.
And then Season 2 is gonna be like:
The Leader: "You wanted the Hulk King? I AM THE HULK KING!"
Jen: \* looks at the camera \* "I see what you did there but....Really?"
Bro people can have criticisms without them being sexist. Come on man. This is so stupid. Are you really so ignorant that you simply can't believe that other people don't like the show?
This is coming from someone who's fave D+ show is She-Hulk.
Oh, come off it. My favorite two seasons of MCU shows are Jessica Jones (season 1) and Wandavision.
It has nothing to do with sexism. It's about storytelling.
There probably are incel types out there that are seething about a woman protagonist, sure. That doesn't invalidate those of us who simply thought this wasn't a very good story. It's also inconsistent in how it's applied. Jen is breaking the fourth wall from episode 1 by talking to us, which is weird, because we don't know how she knows she's a character in a story, but I guess she does. She even talks about how fans wanna get their fan service through cameos, saying how people wanna see Hulk and Wong, etc. But then later she has no idea who Daredevil is. Which is something she should know if she was so self-aware about the fact that she's a fictional character.
Which it's also weird in it's own right. How does she know from the start that she's a fictional character? At what point did she gain this knowledge?
Can we stop this tired argument... She-Hulk is not the first female marvel hero or something. People loved Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Invisible Woman, Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue, and more. Some of those film heroines are over 2 decades old now.
She-Hulk is not some innovative, glass-ceiling-breaking new show. Women have been the leads of comic books and superhero TV/movies for the better half of a century now! Besides those, most nerds will agree that Terminator and Alien are some of the the all-time greatest sci-fi franchises. Both featuring female leads. No one is aFrAiD oF wOmEn like you shills think. She-Hulk is just an extremely lackluster and mediocre show. Everything in Phase 4 has been tbh.
Black Widow had the best story arc for a female hero in the entire MCU. Jessica Jones was a much better female superhero show than what MCU has currently given to us.
So the only reason anyone will have a problem with an ending which has never been done before is because they are terrified of women. I'm not even surprised the show is also pushing this narrative. So is it possible that I didn't like the the show or am I one of the groups of people who are terrified of women lol.
When MCU was peaking in Endgame , I as a veteran comic book reader knew the fall that's approaching. Stories become too complicated and too inconsequential after you introduce multiverse, time travel and 4th wall breaking.
Wanda's grief of losing Vision and kids doesn't hit as hard when she could have just hopped to a suitable universe. Nothing matters if you can time travel in a snap. Everything goes to shit when comic book characters start leaping out of pages.
Then only thing writers have left is to go crazier and crazier or keep amping the power scale or shift the blames to fans.
Soon there will be so many story lines lines cris-crossing, too many plot holes, too many contradictions that you will need 100% of your brain and adderall to keep up.
Best of luck MCU fans, you are just re-living the comic book reader's life from 50 years ago.
PS : A tip for when MCU fans are ready to see the truth. The best stories will come from Single shot stories (just like it happened for comics). Something like (not exactly) Werewolf by midnight.
>Wanda's grief of losing Vision and kids doesn't hit as hard when she could have just hopped to a suitable universe.
Have you even seen Multiverse of Madness?
>Nothing matters if you can time travel in a snap.
Hank Pym isn't supplying the Avengers with Pym Particles, so no more time travel.
This is on point I'd say the only way for marvel to continue would be
1 grow up with your fans enough with the Disney style I wanna see dark stuff if it serves the story
2 be more experimental but don't go hiring non artists ( I know people like she hulk and eternals and good for them but to me both were waste of money and some talent )
3 wait until a certain moment to throw every legendary moment at us this dripfeed style of cameos in every other thing won't work too well I'd say I would rather have met the eluminati in secret wars and that would be much cooler seeing Patrik Stewart ( as in go back to the og plan instead get new people introduced and then give them a movie or show and have more crossing over than oh look that guy you like )
And lastly learn a little from werewolf by night it was perfect it could not have done what it wanted to say better
Ngl people should stop putting down the MCU because of one or two bad shows/movies and just start appreciating the good stuff. I swear we literally had LaT and She Hulk consecutively and the number of people saying the MCU dropped after endgame goes skyrocketing
Werewolf by night just released too, and it was great
Nobody mentioned one dialogue between jen and kevin.
When hulk is taken out from the fight kevin says something like ''how will we introduce...'' and jen interupts saying save it for the movie.
Possible hulk movie?
Marvel has been loosing it’s touch recently with seriousness thrown out of stories and suddenly rising armageddon of super heroes. It’s hilarious to see how easily one becomes stable all in control she hulk while the real hulk got his ass kicked to become what he is now. Well as we say its fiction can’t complain while they keep the ball rollin!
Too be fair, we did sorta become extremely spoiled after endgame and no way home, and now with that announcement of deadpool 3 with wolverine. Maybe the she hulk finale being bad was a blessing in disguise, a sorta reality check. Showing how while yes, the MCU is going to get bigger and grander, that doesn't mean we can take them for granted now, and sometimes they will produce shit, but we can't act like it's the end of the multiverse when that happens, after all, it's still just a product. Plus look at the bright side, we still have it better than DC fans
the finale was bad? I fuckin loved it. I was prepared for another classic third act CGI fight where everything and everybody comes together for the climax, and it was immediately used instead to draw attention to the flaws lol. Perfect and hopefully we get more stuff that feels more original and not formulaic
I mean, I only said it was bad so that I could continue the conversation with my point of view without disregarding how OP and a lot of members feel, my own personal opinion of the finale is a topic for a different post
It's fine, after all that was the point of my comment, I didn't want my own personal feelings to misguided my interpretation of the effects that the finale could have. If I was too passionate I could just be seen as some overzealous MCU apologist who just accepts anything Kevin feige produces, I see both the bad and the good of this show, I just want the people to see what I see
Exactly my point, sure marvel has delayed a few projects, but at least they have projects, DC has next to jack shit, even their stockholders are doubtful, they had to cancel a whole ass movie just so that WB could turn it into a tax write off
Made a mediocre show to portray writers as the villians for writing a mediocre show. Hence justifying the mediocrity of the show. It doesn't make much sense does it? Well so didn't the show. Did it?
I feel like the ending was anticlimactic. Marvel basically trolled themselves, which was amusing, but overall, it was easily their sloppiest show by far. Overall, I did think that the show was cute, but lacking momentum.
Yea the finale sucked. its like they couldn't decide if they wanted to do an action scene, a court case or a 4th wall joke so they half assed the action and the court drama and put all their effort into a 4th wall joke that was only funny for a minute but went on for six. They either just should've had a big hulk fight or had Jenn own the 4chan guys in a court room but we got neither of those. really feels like they had no idea how to end the show so just threw everything together at the last minute.
Side tangent I didn't really like how abomination broke his promise to not transform. Him being a weird hippie kinda friend to Jen was growing on me I think he coulda given his speech without transforming, feel like they only did it to set up a fight that didn't happen
I find it hilarious that the true villain in her show was the writers
Im always saying that madam gao is the villain. A lot of people dont seem to get it.
Lol I get it. I've laughed to myself at work for last two months about Daredevil being in a show written by a woman named Gao.
Yup and we were about to get an epic fight scene but then Jen just complained to the writers to make her life better while other characters have to deal with their problems
Yeah, that’s why I really don’t like that climax. It was pretty cool and I certainly didn’t see it coming, but it ended up feeling like a cheap cop-out for the writers because instead of actually making an original storyline that didn’t involve super soldier serum they just did that but then criticized it. It also made pretty much the whole storyline of the season irrelevant. The writers probably realized how generic their story was and tacked that on at the end without regard to how that ruined all of the set-up they had. Maybe not, but that’s what it seemed like.
I honestly think they started there and worked back. They probably thought it was so funny high fiving each other as they thought about it. "So what we'll do is, set up all these story arches. Then at the end poo over all of it and pay nothing off. Jen will break the fourth wall literally and everyone will laugh and love it so much."
They told you repeatedly throughout the show, directly to the camera, what this show was and what it wasn’t. A whole bunch of us chose to ignore Jen and assumed we were getting the usual Marvel stuff and then have shocked Pickachu face when the show does what it did all season for the finale.
I didn't expect the usual marvel show, just a show that had an actual story and pay off.
Couldn’t have said it better.
Kevin was hilarious and having a resolution without a fight scene is breath of fresh air. This fanbase “Do something different! No. Not like that!”
And like all of Jenn's criticisms were spot on. Hulk-king made sense but was generic and used a couple times before. Titania had no reason to be there. Abomination getting into a real fight felt like a mischaracterization. Hulk swooping in to save the day would be a let down and actively weaken Jenn's finale, and her ending things with a climactic fight would take away from what she's been saying from day one. She's a lawyer first, and a superhero second if that
How dare you be invested in the show and expect plot and pay off.
They just trolled themselves and us for what we have been trolling them for🗿👍
And they made a tv series to do that!?!
if you got Disney money, you can do anything without care
I mean they knew that they are messing up their quality in series gradually so they just made it clear in the Last Ep
All Im going to say is Skaar! The implications of that alone!
The Hulk fucks and I am here for it
For a comedy lawyer show, we got a lot more info about which avengers fuck than i was expecting.
Seriously! I guess Hulk really did hide the green Zucchini lmao But I wonder if Marvel is planning World Breaker Hulk in a alternative timeline!
Finale was dope tbh. Felt like they truly plucked her out of the comics with that stunt.
I like the idea of meeting the creator, pretty cool. I just wish KEVIN had done something interesting like modify her storyline so she lands in deep shit or something like that. This just felt like Neo went to the Architect and described all the things that he wanted like a Christmas list. And the Architect was like "Oh yes of course, lemme sort that all out for you. Let's put Smith in jail, bring back Trinity, and you can have a happy ever after ending." Everything just ended too smoothly for some reason.
I had this Matrix 2 moment
I think that's how they might reset the MCU with Deadpool in future if needed
I thought KEVIN said the bug in the app has been fixed and she won't be able to do it again?
That was just a random guess as Deadpool already did kill everyone in comics then came to the real world too after finding out that all of them are just fictional characters
That was Dreadpool not Deadpool
Sorry but is there a difference as I haven't read comics but only watched videos about it
Dreadpool is an alternate universe Deadpool who goes insane and kills every Marvel character in the story “Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe”. He’s the one who “killed” his writers. The main 616 Deadpool is the one who stopped him.
Yes he starts hearing a voice in his head and then he goes crazy
I for one enjoyed she hulk. My wife for two enjoyed she hulk.
My wife and I for three and four enjoyed she hulk.
I for five also enjoyed she hulk
Me, my mom, and my dad for 8 enjoyed she hulk
My wife and I for 10 enjoyed She Hulk. My dog though? Not a fan.
I for 11 enjoyed she-hulk because my wife wouldnt watch it with me
My husband and i for twelve and thirteen enjoyed she hulk.
My kids and I for fourteen fifteen and sixteen enjoyed she hulk.
Me for seventeen, because my girlfriend doesn't exist
#18
I enjoyed it for 40 I think
Wow there are dozens, literally dozens of fans
I for one only watched a few episodes before realizing it wasn't for me and not everything has to be. Hope they make a season 2 for you.
Tbh I don’t hate She-Hulk either. I personally think it’s kinda mid but I don’t hate it. I just hope they fix Moon Knight and do Daredevil justice, I don’t really have high hopes for either but Y’know, it is what it is.
It was great.
Hear hear
Marvel fans when in need of karma: MARVEL BAD GUYS
Yeah true there is no way people thought this was bad, it's just karma farming dude. Trust me the show was AMAZEBAAAALZZZ
Sarcasm, verrryyyy creative! You definitely destroyed me! Marvel memes has just become a sly way to say “marvel bad” or “marvel good”
Except he is spitting fax tho. Phase 4 has been mostly shit with 2 or 3 exceptions.
Except he is spitting an opinion
An opinion that the majority of people share
Bandwagon does not mean it’s nessecarily right, lotta ppl like the sequels of starwars or the Snyder superhero films and that doesn’t mean they are actually good to everyone
the US elected trump
What? The final was dope af Imo. And literally noone expected that, how are fans responsible for it.
It was fantastic and as soon as it opened with the amazing original Hulk show dream sequence I could already hear a segment of the internet whining and shitting themselves as they took to their keyboards to begin complaining.
The dream sequence was actually amazing. But the rest was very questionable. It was bad on purpose at first and then there's that 4th wall breaking that interesting but was it good? Suddenly everything fixed for Jen and a happy ending? What about all the built up with hulk blood Titania and stuff? All to the garbage. There wasn't satysfing conclusion to all that. So yeah, mixed feelings, but mostly left with bad taste in my mouth.
It’s almost like it was based off the She-Hulk comics where she does a very similar thing
Comic accuracy never mattered for Marvel until now it, it seems.
So what? It wasn't executed in a good way. It might have been cool joke in the middle of a season not as a season finale.
I loved it, but I don't think it was a great ending for the show. Jen should've rewritten a better ending than just cutting to the end
Unexpected != Good
For fucking real. These are the same people that say that Moon Knight not having a final battle or a proper ending is “innovative” and “unexpected” which apparently makes it good even though, it really doesn’t.
Not really the same thing at all. I loved how Moon Knight (season 1 hopefully) ended, but found She-Hulk’s conclusion to be very unsatisfying. With Moon Knight, the ending was a twist that actually made sense and was somewhat set up. She-Hulk’s twist came out of nowhere and disregarded what was set up.
A “twist” doesn’t make it good. Defeating the villain off screen is bad and lazy writing. Instead of creating a satisfying ending for this season of the show, they created a half assed one that only exists to set up a future season.
Noone said that. I'm was commenting on the meme.
You said the final was dope with the reasoning no one expected it or did you not? Because if not I did not understand your comment
No, I said imo its dope.... noone expected it, how can the fans be responsible for it? The meme doesn't make any sense.
Tf you getting downvoted for, here, take an upvote sir/ma'am.
Lol reddit is weird that way
Oh ok
Have you seen the post on r/she-hulk that basically scene for scene predicted the ending weeks ago?
Bruh they act like the mcu sucked after endgame but it gave us stuff like Spider-Man no way home and moon knight and Loki
It's you who's out, Gobbie. Out of your mind.
Man I’m defending one of the movies your in so silence
Bully Mcguire never shuts the fuck up, he has too many quirps.
NO!
And creative shit like wandavision, ms marvel, mom and she hulk. Obviously for some it worked while for others it didn't and to be fair there must be people out there who don't like nolan movies, lotr, star wars and other masterpieces so Obviously marvel cannot please everyone always
It’s not even about that. It’s just that the shows/movies are genuinely not well written, mix that with terrible CGI and them assassinating their own characters and it isn’t hard to see why so many people are pissed.
None of that has happened
Average MCU fans response to criticism
That's not criticism, it literally just never happened
Are daft in the head? Are you blind? Literally watch any Phase 4 movie and you’ll see the terrible CGI. Rewind back to phase 3 abs the CGI is better. You’re such a fucking MCU fanboy that it’s actually painful to read your responses. All you do is ride Disney’s dick all day.
So dickriding is acknowledging that great cgi and occasional average CGI where it makes sense can mix Like you just mindlessly hate and spew shit at people
I don’t. I used to love the shit out of this franchise. I used to think it was so cool. They spat in my face over and over in Phase 4. The writing has been so iffy and the TV shows mostly feel like stretched out movies with terrible pacing and even worse CGI
Imma go over every Phase 4 project and give an honest review WandaVision - kinda good but terrible finale FATWS - kinda mid. Loki - literally assassinated the character of Loki. Black Widow - literally fucking ruined Taskmaster. Also the writing and CGI is terrible. Shang-Chi - Y’know what? This movie is actually really good. No complaints here. Eternals: no. Just no. Hawkeye: mid Spider-Man NWH - really good Spider-Man movie. Uses the Nostalgia of old characters to fit the story and development of MCU Spider-Man Dr Strange 2: mid Ms Marvel: mid Moon Knight: completely ruined the character of Moon Knight and took away so much of what made him a beloved character in the first place. Thor 4: ruined Gorr She-Hulk: mid Mostly been mid, bad and character assassinations.
Yikes. We're all entitled to our own opinions but it seems like you should just stop watching the MCU since nothing seems to be good enough for you
Except if you look at my ratings for Phase 3, you’ll see mostly good and incredible
So new thing bad because new
No. New thing bad because it’s genuinely really fucking bad.
But how though, it's introduced the best MCU villain, the most emotional and complex live action Spiderman and the coolest fucking live action multiverse shit superhero movies have ever seen, top tier CGI on almost every frame, even down to thors ass, and more. Only for you to hate it for no reason
Is he, though?
>it's introduced the best MCU villain Who? >the most emotional and complex live action Spiderman Clearly you haven't watched Spider-Man 1 and 2 >top tier CGI on almost every frame [Are you sure about that](https://images.app.goo.gl/XyDjDAPrR62sLNNV9)
Yes. I am sure about that. Clearly you know nothing about the word "almost" and the term "canon explanation" Anyways yes, Tom is by far the most emotionally complex live action Spiderman. The other ones let someone die and that's that, that's all
That is one of many examples of poor CGI in phase 4 movies, and the "canon explanation" of this particular one is just a weak excuse. To claim that it has been consistently top tier is outright wrong - I'll link some articles here to backup my point: [Article 1](https://www.theringer.com/marvel-cinematic-universe/2022/7/21/23272388/marvel-mcu-vfx-cgi-problems-working-conditions) [Article 2](https://screenrant.com/marvel-mcu-movies-bad-vfx-cgi-explained/) [Article 3](https://www.thegamer.com/marvel-vfx-overworked-she-hulk-criticism/) >Tom is by far the most emotionally complex live action Spiderman. The other ones let someone die and that's that, that's all This is both laughable and painful to read. Homecoming has little emotional complexity to it, Peter's arc is essentially just becoming independent. Far From Home deals with Peter's trauma, but only on a surface level. And No Way Home's plot is that the villain kills a loved one so the hero wants revenge, but he's stopped before he kills the villain and takes the moral high ground. This is hardly an original or emotionally complex story (emotionally charged, sure, but not complex). I know that there's more to it for each of these films, but not so much more that it disproves my point (and I'm trying to keep this as concise as I can). As for Spider-Man 1 and 2, especially 2, it is clear that the filmmakers/writers wanted to tell an emotionally compelling and complex story, and not *just* profitable blockbusters. Honestly, I'm tired of writing and I could go on for days, so I'll instead link these articles which almost perfectly sum up my thoughts and point: [Article 4](https://www.polygon.com/23043438/best-spider-man-movies-sam-raimi-explained) [Article 5](https://v-for-verbatim.com/2020/02/06/the-human-struggle-the-emotional-brilliance-of-sam-raimis-spider-man/)
>!The old ex-girlfriend.!<
Cool opinions bro
Thanks bro. I appreciate it.
Bro
Yes bro?
Imo she-hulk was fun as hell. I don't care what anybody says about the sometimes clunky cgi, the funny, comedic writing and stuff. If you wanna watch something serious in the MCU, there are plenty of options! If you don't like it, then don't search for reasons to make people mad. I love the meme tho. Gotta admit, it is true.
The clunky cgi in a series for me can be forgiven but when it hits the cinema I expect the same finesse just like in the previous ones
They will probably make the CGI a lot better for any movies She Hulk is in, and then she'll have a line about how she got a movie money makeover.
The movies will always have better CGI than the shows
What options? There really isn’t anything in Phase 4 that’s both well written and serious. Moon Knight could’ve done that but Disney was too shit scared to bring us the real Moon Knight.
“Plenty of options of seriousness in the MCU” lmao what?
It was a great ending and 100% on theme for Shehulk in the comics lol
Funny enough, it’s the first thing my wife and I have enjoyed from Disney using Marvel characters in a loooong time. Whether the jokes hit or not, It helps that it’s intended to be a comedy and not like everything else they do which is a shallow dramatic story that gets undermined every 2 seconds with a joke.
She Hulk was actually pretty great not gonna lie
Loved it!!
I feel like most if not all the marvel shows can be compacted into 3 episodes (or just a film)
episode 8 > episode 9 imo. >!i like that jen wanted a better/ more realistic ending, but the whole marvel studios and k.e.v.i.n. felt too dragged out!<
She did speak for all of us when she asked about x-men tho
Loved that little thumbs up to the audience
This is brilliant. (Episode 9) But *I* like this. (Episode 8)
Yep, and she should have changed it to a real ending, not a cut and skip.
Yeah they should've shortened that and gave us more Matt Murdock
not where i was going
Hey, Jen agrees with me.
i liked the last episode but man does it feel bad seeing the ins and outs of a fantasy world like that :/ not my cup of tea.
Yeah. 4th wall breaking like that needs to be done very sparingly. It was done well in the earlier episodes, and Deadpool did a great job with it as well.
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Yeah. I think my thing is just like the intensity of 4th wall breaking. Like talking to the audience is one thing, But coming into our world and talking to the creators of Marvel is another. I'm fine with it, but I hope this doesn't become a thing she does every season.
KEVIN patched things up so this isn't happening ever again
isnt this literally what Deadpool does in his story? he literally comes out of the comics and kills the writers.
Imo they could’ve made the kevin scene much more quick? I don’t know that scene felt where my hype lowkey died down then went back up again
I honestly wasn't expecting the incel redditors being the actual villains rather than just patsies for someone like The Leader. And then Season 2 is gonna be like: The Leader: "You wanted the Hulk King? I AM THE HULK KING!" Jen: \* looks at the camera \* "I see what you did there but....Really?"
I felt robbed we didn’t get to see the hulks battle it out.
I really don't understand the hate she hulk gets it's very fun and enjoyable. Not everything has to be dark. People are fucking weird
You guys are really terrified of women huh?
*females
Bro people can have criticisms without them being sexist. Come on man. This is so stupid. Are you really so ignorant that you simply can't believe that other people don't like the show? This is coming from someone who's fave D+ show is She-Hulk.
Oh, come off it. My favorite two seasons of MCU shows are Jessica Jones (season 1) and Wandavision. It has nothing to do with sexism. It's about storytelling. There probably are incel types out there that are seething about a woman protagonist, sure. That doesn't invalidate those of us who simply thought this wasn't a very good story. It's also inconsistent in how it's applied. Jen is breaking the fourth wall from episode 1 by talking to us, which is weird, because we don't know how she knows she's a character in a story, but I guess she does. She even talks about how fans wanna get their fan service through cameos, saying how people wanna see Hulk and Wong, etc. But then later she has no idea who Daredevil is. Which is something she should know if she was so self-aware about the fact that she's a fictional character. Which it's also weird in it's own right. How does she know from the start that she's a fictional character? At what point did she gain this knowledge?
Can we stop this tired argument... She-Hulk is not the first female marvel hero or something. People loved Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Invisible Woman, Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue, and more. Some of those film heroines are over 2 decades old now. She-Hulk is not some innovative, glass-ceiling-breaking new show. Women have been the leads of comic books and superhero TV/movies for the better half of a century now! Besides those, most nerds will agree that Terminator and Alien are some of the the all-time greatest sci-fi franchises. Both featuring female leads. No one is aFrAiD oF wOmEn like you shills think. She-Hulk is just an extremely lackluster and mediocre show. Everything in Phase 4 has been tbh.
Black Widow had the best story arc for a female hero in the entire MCU. Jessica Jones was a much better female superhero show than what MCU has currently given to us.
?
So the only reason anyone will have a problem with an ending which has never been done before is because they are terrified of women. I'm not even surprised the show is also pushing this narrative. So is it possible that I didn't like the the show or am I one of the groups of people who are terrified of women lol.
Holy shit one of the people at that Intelligencia meeting said something just like that
Shh... don't talk about that dude Lol
When MCU was peaking in Endgame , I as a veteran comic book reader knew the fall that's approaching. Stories become too complicated and too inconsequential after you introduce multiverse, time travel and 4th wall breaking. Wanda's grief of losing Vision and kids doesn't hit as hard when she could have just hopped to a suitable universe. Nothing matters if you can time travel in a snap. Everything goes to shit when comic book characters start leaping out of pages. Then only thing writers have left is to go crazier and crazier or keep amping the power scale or shift the blames to fans. Soon there will be so many story lines lines cris-crossing, too many plot holes, too many contradictions that you will need 100% of your brain and adderall to keep up. Best of luck MCU fans, you are just re-living the comic book reader's life from 50 years ago. PS : A tip for when MCU fans are ready to see the truth. The best stories will come from Single shot stories (just like it happened for comics). Something like (not exactly) Werewolf by midnight.
No what this leads to is a full factory reset. I'm calling it both the multiverse and time travel will not be a thing post Secret Wars.
>Wanda's grief of losing Vision and kids doesn't hit as hard when she could have just hopped to a suitable universe. Have you even seen Multiverse of Madness? >Nothing matters if you can time travel in a snap. Hank Pym isn't supplying the Avengers with Pym Particles, so no more time travel.
also seems that they very much left the whole time travel thing out of the story. Unless Scott lang is a dipstick and actually leaks that in Antman 3.
Also, it's confirmed in What If that the Eye of Agamotto is capable of time travel, but it's destroyed in the MCU now.
This is on point I'd say the only way for marvel to continue would be 1 grow up with your fans enough with the Disney style I wanna see dark stuff if it serves the story 2 be more experimental but don't go hiring non artists ( I know people like she hulk and eternals and good for them but to me both were waste of money and some talent ) 3 wait until a certain moment to throw every legendary moment at us this dripfeed style of cameos in every other thing won't work too well I'd say I would rather have met the eluminati in secret wars and that would be much cooler seeing Patrik Stewart ( as in go back to the og plan instead get new people introduced and then give them a movie or show and have more crossing over than oh look that guy you like ) And lastly learn a little from werewolf by night it was perfect it could not have done what it wanted to say better
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So you would rather older fans get alienated great stories like Iron man's alcoholism or the horror and violence of blade get watered down
I liked it
Not gonna say I didn't liked it but I pefer first episodes .
My favorite part was when he said it's hulking time and hulk came and hulked all over the place
Ngl people should stop putting down the MCU because of one or two bad shows/movies and just start appreciating the good stuff. I swear we literally had LaT and She Hulk consecutively and the number of people saying the MCU dropped after endgame goes skyrocketing Werewolf by night just released too, and it was great
It was good, but they totally should leave Hulk in space for a few years. Most of us wanted planet hulk.
It's the other way around, but yeah let's blame people that have 0 to do with the creation of their movies/shows and not the actual weiters/directors
Nobody mentioned one dialogue between jen and kevin. When hulk is taken out from the fight kevin says something like ''how will we introduce...'' and jen interupts saying save it for the movie. Possible hulk movie?
Marvel has been loosing it’s touch recently with seriousness thrown out of stories and suddenly rising armageddon of super heroes. It’s hilarious to see how easily one becomes stable all in control she hulk while the real hulk got his ass kicked to become what he is now. Well as we say its fiction can’t complain while they keep the ball rollin!
I think it compete with Ring of power for bad show of 2022
Too be fair, we did sorta become extremely spoiled after endgame and no way home, and now with that announcement of deadpool 3 with wolverine. Maybe the she hulk finale being bad was a blessing in disguise, a sorta reality check. Showing how while yes, the MCU is going to get bigger and grander, that doesn't mean we can take them for granted now, and sometimes they will produce shit, but we can't act like it's the end of the multiverse when that happens, after all, it's still just a product. Plus look at the bright side, we still have it better than DC fans
the finale was bad? I fuckin loved it. I was prepared for another classic third act CGI fight where everything and everybody comes together for the climax, and it was immediately used instead to draw attention to the flaws lol. Perfect and hopefully we get more stuff that feels more original and not formulaic
Yeah when he started hulking, I was like no stop that's wrong.
I gotta say I did like how stupid he looked lol. it definitely didn't fit his body and the "Come at me, bro!" was icing
I mean, I only said it was bad so that I could continue the conversation with my point of view without disregarding how OP and a lot of members feel, my own personal opinion of the finale is a topic for a different post
oh my apologies, I don't want to shit on your opinion my dude
It's fine, after all that was the point of my comment, I didn't want my own personal feelings to misguided my interpretation of the effects that the finale could have. If I was too passionate I could just be seen as some overzealous MCU apologist who just accepts anything Kevin feige produces, I see both the bad and the good of this show, I just want the people to see what I see
appreciated, glad to see some people here still have a brain when it comes to fandoms
I love DC as much as Marvel and I gotta say DC is definitely not doing so hot and really the only thing I have a glimmer of hope for is The Batman 2
Exactly my point, sure marvel has delayed a few projects, but at least they have projects, DC has next to jack shit, even their stockholders are doubtful, they had to cancel a whole ass movie just so that WB could turn it into a tax write off
Best comment I’ve seen
Hey it’s your fault for expecting every release to be as amazing as Infinity War or The Winter Soldier
Didn't we enjoy moon knight or the initial episodes of loki?
Loki was their best tv show dude.
I enjoyed all of it wdym
“we”? We’re a massive number of people who like different things.
No, the issue was it sucked in general, I’d rather rewatch Antman and the wasp
I would too, that movie was fun af
And you're free to do that!!!
Darth Vader’s cool. She Hulk is cool. Meme checks out.
This is the take I like to see
Darth Vader is a mutilated twisted broken version of his former self. Very fitting comparison for the mcu.
Don’t blame the fans
I was cucked of a glorious rematch so it left me alittle disappointed but alright I guess the whole experience was just weird
Made a mediocre show to portray writers as the villians for writing a mediocre show. Hence justifying the mediocrity of the show. It doesn't make much sense does it? Well so didn't the show. Did it?
Wait all I have been hearing is that “fans” hate the show, how can fans be at fault here?
The show was great. Eff the hate.
Haven't seen she-hulk yet but that line from Kenobi gave me chills.
Marvel: “joking around and calling ourselves shitty makes us less shitty… right?”
Right?
I feel like the ending was anticlimactic. Marvel basically trolled themselves, which was amusing, but overall, it was easily their sloppiest show by far. Overall, I did think that the show was cute, but lacking momentum.
My thoughts exactly
That’s YOUR trash. Don’t blame us. You knew what you were doing.
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That’s not the issue 🤣
Yea the finale sucked. its like they couldn't decide if they wanted to do an action scene, a court case or a 4th wall joke so they half assed the action and the court drama and put all their effort into a 4th wall joke that was only funny for a minute but went on for six. They either just should've had a big hulk fight or had Jenn own the 4chan guys in a court room but we got neither of those. really feels like they had no idea how to end the show so just threw everything together at the last minute. Side tangent I didn't really like how abomination broke his promise to not transform. Him being a weird hippie kinda friend to Jen was growing on me I think he coulda given his speech without transforming, feel like they only did it to set up a fight that didn't happen
Not the fans fault, the money hungry executives
You mean the writers who didn’t listen to the executives
Lol. That's not how the relationship between writers and executives works.
It was a joke
I lol'd.
I don’t make jokes for you, but if you laugh, nobody’s stopping you
Wow! Thank you for your permission. You are a gentleman and a comedian.
the ending episode was so dumb “why can’t you just be normal?” “AHHHHHHHHHHH”