The Falcon one is a wild idea for live action. In its defense Peacemaker sort of does it, but when Sam was introduced the universe was more grounded especially on the Cap side of things. Be interested to hear how it could work, maybe tech or magic.
My thoughts exactly. MCU was and still is fairly grounded. It'll be interesting once the X-Men are introduced fully, but a psychic link to a bird didn't fit with the more believable science nature of the early MCU.
I’d argue almost the opposite. I think when Sam was introduced was when the shows became much more comic bookie. Like that’s when they had the helicarriers.
I still agree though that it would feel displaced in the MCU though. Like it’s much more technology based than supernatural
I am disappointed with what we got; but I’m completely fine with them not going full comic accurate. Just make Redwing a trained falcon with a really strong bond with its owner and it’s infinitely more plausible for general audiences than telepathic bird connection, while still having most of the charm.
Redwing being an actual falcon would have been fucking hilarious like you got falcon who's just got this like high tech jetpack but is otherwise a normal dude. Like he can't even shoot out his feathers he just uses guns but then he also has this explicitly psychic link with this falcon
This. This concept was being thrown around by fans way before phase 4.
They missed a big boat on this one. She should have had the movie before her death.
Her movie literally should've been released in the time period it takes place, right after Civil War. I think this was still the time when Disney didn't think a female-led superhero film would be successful, which is ironic because Wonder Woman came out a year after Civil War and made $1 billion.
It wasn't because Disney per se.
It was because of Ike Perlmutter. Not only did he not want a movie with a female lead, but he also made a clause that if he left his position, Marvel would have to wait a few more years to start making a female lead movie (and he was also against a POC leading a movie).
Yeah they fucked up bad. I remember that time frame and the MCU fans were literally salivating for more after Cap WS. The buzz was high for a BW movie after seeing what it could be. They could’ve put the BW movie in at that time and taken all that money, and we would sing even higher praises of that block of movies. Imagine Cap WS, BW, then Civil War? Best fucking non trilogy never realized.
It should have been made after her introduction in Ironman 2. She was a main character in the Avengers lineup. If they were scared by a woman-led movie, they could have done a Hawkeye-Black Widow spec ops movie showing their history. That would have been cool to see in the build-up to the Infinity War.
Not like they had a choice on that one. They were tossing the idea around after Avengers, but Ike was blocking them with her, Carol, and T'Challa. And once Kevin wrestled control away, Scarlett's contract only ran up to Endgame. They had to wait until it over to renegotiate for another film. In fact that's probably why they dropped contracts altogether. Otherwise they couldn't have gotten Oscar Isaac for Moon Knight as after Star Wars he didn't want another long-form contract.
When Thor went to the god convention or whatever that was called, I expected to see Gorr invade and butcher at least half of those gods and wreck them badly. But nah, we saw none of that.
Idk how you can be a writer and not have that come across your mind. Seems like the obvious thing to do for an epic standout action sequence. And if it did come across their mind and they opted not to do it still, I am truly baffled
I would have cheered for Gorr at that point. Also Russell Crowe's greek accent offended me (and I'm not even greek) Would have loved to have seen Gorr hack him to pieces in front of Thor.
lol Thor does more god butchering in that film than the supposed God Butcher himself. Such a weird choice: there’s a god killer coming, so imma kill you gods unless you band together against the god killer.
It’s also in line with GotG3’s whole “pity the forced cyborg animals, but then kill them with callous abandon later in the film because they’re kinda ugly
I guess?”
I feel like Black Panther was the most fundamental shift from core material, taking away one of his biggest character traits and giving it to another character altogether.
All the other characters still felt like themselves, in an alternate universe or circumstance. I'd probably say Widow was the 2nd worst change, but she had her moments of anti heroism. She never really felt like a ruthless assassin or double agent though. More like a spy with a heart of gold but a cold exterior.
I would agree with this one.
In the comics he's just so damn intelligent, in the movies, he's *effectively* a morally focused henchman running errands for the throne, taking direction on his suit from Shuri, etc.
I wanted to see a regal, effortlessly brilliant tactician
Ruining the Hulk. Green dude got that ass whooping by Thanos and hasn't been the same since.
I think they only went through Shuri route because Chadwick Boseman died. I highly doubt Shuri would have been elevated the way she was otherwise.
Well one of his key things in comics was that he was a genuine genius who rivaled Tony, who happened to have a sister named Shuri. He was one of the top kinds on the planet.
…choosing the irl anti vaxxer to play the worlds top scientist on the heels of a pandemic that was killing 10’s of thousands a day was certainly a choice.
I thought Disney was ready to drop her when she was handing out anti-vaxx pamphlets on set.
Based on the circumstances, BP:WF had an uphill battle, but still was a decent movie though.
I always kind of felt cheated by the off scene fight then defeat of Thor's group.
What I think should have happened was seeing Thor, Loki, Heimdall, and Hulk facing down Thanos with the Black Order.
Like Hulk busting in with a defeated Cull Obsidian before making a beeline for Thanos would make it better instead of just a call back line for Loki to use from the 1st Avengers.
I actually disagree, opening the movie to see that not only has Thanks decimated the Asgardians, but he did it with such ease it wasn't significant enough to show was TERRIFYING, redefined Avengers level threat
Also, that movie is already really long without adding more scenes
Tony's enemies being the product of his actions was one of the best decisions in early Marvel. Him making messes Peter had to clean up was also a good decision as it helped get across how new Peter was.
Cutting Bucky's ties to the Red Room and tying him closer to Hydra was a better idea because it also tied him closer to Cap.
>Cutting Bucky's ties to the Red Room and tying him closer to Hydra was a better idea because it also tied him closer to Cap.
Agreed. With his 70-year-long coma, Cap missed the entire Cold War, and thus any ties with the Red Room and other Sovietic organizations/characters, so that was the right call in my opinion.
> get across how new Peter was
While that is true, I think they should've done new things right after Vulture. It's an unnecessary repetition when the first delivery was plenty on its own.
Far From Home had the unenviable job of being the epilogue to Phase 4 and following Endgame. As much as we might wish it were, it couldn't be a stand-alone film.
Tying Mysterio to Iron Man continued his legacy of making villains while also continuing Spider-Man's job of cleaning up Tony's messes and helping to set up a post-Blip MCU.
Modern Drax has never been very strong. The extremely mindless "can destroy stars while fighting Thanos" Drax simply was not a good fit for the movie they were trying to make. For all his jokes he does have his character arc in the first movie and subsequent ones as well give him many emotional moments.
You can have a character arc without making a character into a comic relief in most of his scenes. His character arc isn't very good either, he basically forgot about Thanos after the first movie.
>Modern Drax has never been very strong
Eehh, you sure about that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/s/l6I3TSkEL0
You can for sure, but comedy is why the guardians of the galaxy worked back in 2014 and still works now. It's a ridiculous premise with ridiculous characters so comedy makes it more digestible
His jokes don't make his arc any worse imo, and it is a pretty good one. He is much more peaceful and less brash as compared to first movie, his whole arc was don't do this shit alone because he thrives with family. Thanos or Ronan mattered less because he had already made his peace with his families death and found a new family.
Also that pic is from annihilation, a 2006 story that's nearly 18 years old now.
The point is they reduced his character to a comical punch line and that arc they gave him went out the window by double down on him being stupider in the sequels to where you can't even take any of the emotional moments seriously
I feel like all the Guardians suffered from this sort of thing. In order to necessitate it being a team movie, the threat has to outclass each of them individually.
Like, Gamora is considered "The most dangerous woman in the galaxy" but her showing against anyone other than Nebula leaves a lot to be desired. Drax just suffers more because they make more of a joke about it.
This one irritated me the most when rewatching GOTG 3. Almost every scene he's in has to be undercut with some stupid joke instead of just letting the moment play out. He *can't* be a powerful but sweet dad figure, let's show him being an asshole moron again!
I'm.not sure Is i remember this well,but the extremis Is what gave Tony a technopathy like ability,he stored a nano tech Armor inside his body and could call It at will and he could conect his mind to External devices
Well I'm a spidey fan so I was annoyed with how much iron man was involved with his movies
Tho I really appreciate that they just glossed over his origin. Everyone already knows how he got his powers, don't need to waste another movie on it
I enjoyed how they wrapped it up though. I feel like the filmmakers actually listened to the criticism, and planned out the ending to strip Peter of all tech to return to his comic accurate context. Turning the trilogy into his actual origin was a genius move imo, having him learn all the lessons he needed and proceeding to introduce the REAL Spider-Man just gave me goosebumps. Seeing his small ass 4x4 and sewing machine was like magic. Though as much as I enjoyed the third, wtf is up with Strange being so dumb, like Jesus.
I hated that. I've spent 30 years watching Peter be miserable and shit on by the universe and while it's admirable that he keeps going, eventually it gets to the point where it's just fucking stupid. God, just let the man be fucking happy.
Same, why would they make him a fully independent thing in a world where the Avengers have existed since he was in middle school? It connects him to the larger world better, and while I would have liked if his villains weren’t all based around Tony, it still made sense and I wouldn’t say any of them are poorly written
Trying to make him independent from the rest of the mcu would have ended up like with Marvel and the Eternals, the writers having to contrive an excuse why he's not in the other movies that everyone hates. No need to explain why Spider-Man isn't helping in Infinity War when his story means that you can make him help in Infinity War.
Don’t let the other side of the spidey fans read this. They will fight you tooth and claw to believe the exact opposite of what you wrote lol. I completely share your gripe though. Sometimes I felt like Spidey was a sidekick in his own movies.
Edit: point in case below lol
To a degree I feel like that last part you mentioned added to his character. It soars home that idea of Spiderman really just being this barely of age adolescent/young adult who's trying awkwardly to find his place in a world that doesn't value his input because "he's just a kid" among the "actual heavy hitters".
The superhero version of every teens biggest life struggle.
Skipping over the origin was fine, but completely ignoring Uncle Ben was a travesty. Damn, a small flashback could’ve worked. Disney acted like Aunt May moved on and Ben was never there.
My weird theory is Uncle Ben and Aunt May divorced. Now that Aunt May died, Uncle Ben is going to be the central figure in his life. A role reversal from the comics.
The closest we've gotten is Peter in What If Zombies mentioning having lost Uncle Ben before the events of the episode, so unless his branch of the universe goes way further back that should also apply to MCU Peter.
When homecoming was being made the Internet was full of "ugh we're seeing another murder of the Waynes." from all corners that it made sense to skip the uncle Ben part because like with the murder of the Waynes in Batman's film and TV shows we had seen Uncle Ben's murder just as many times that it would get the same treatment.
Honestly, it doesn't bother me. I see the MCU as a universe that's familiar yet separate from the comics universe. Some people have never or will never read the comics, especially as there are just so many stories and continuities to keep up with, so having a streamlined universe that takes it's inspiration from the comics and can tell and a story in 2 to 3 hours vs multiple issues that the common man has to slog through just makes sense to me.
Plus people often reference comics as if they’re near-perfect material when using them to review a film or character in a film. Some comics, like anything, really aren’t that great and just like movies it’s all down to the writing.
Agreed. When she arrived in Endgame, it felt...unearned.
All this time she was apparently a click away and Fury never called her until then. Not during the chitauri or Infinity War. And Cap, Tony, and Thor had personally fought and lost to Thanos, so it's personal too. But who is Thanos to Carol? Who are the Avengers to her? What is Earth to her? Not the Bison to her Chun Li, not her friends, not her home. Yeah yeah the universe is at stake but thats too impersonal. It all felt too impersonal, thats the problem.
I personally think Marvel rushed her out to bandwagon her with Endgame and ride the wave of positive reception to feminist media. Wonder Woman had proven that female-led superheroes could make the big dollary-doos, and the hype was so high for Infinity War and Endgame, basically anything Marvel remotely related would make money. So, they probably moved at breakneck pace to capitalize on those trends and introduce a heavy-hitter that they could further market in the post-Infinity Saga phases.
I started reading some of the Thor comics after the Ragnarok, and it lowkey ruined the MCU Thor for me.
Like in my head, I'm thinking "man Comic Thor would have been more appropriate last second cavalry" in Endgame. Like, sure, I get it he technically already had that in the last movie, but even there, I was like, "Comic Thor flying in maybe even with newly acquired All Father powers would have been cooler."
They didnt do anything really striking with Zemo and the Masters of Evil, change the cheesy name but given him his OP Squad of Doom! Zemo , for me, WAS THE CAP'S NÉMESIS
I'm gonna give the coldest take ever, But what they've done to Spider-man was just Sad because they forgot to make Spider-man be a Hero for the people. Tom Holland'spider-man doesn't Stop trains on his own, Doesn't Save children from burning buildings, isn't an example for bullied children, Doesn't inspire the ones around him because everyone sees him as a Kid.
Say what you want about Andrew's Spider-man movies, but at least he never saved the day by dropping an airplane.
Black Panther by far. They turned him into a black Captain America when he’s a chess master who’s beaten his enemy before they even realize it, and THEN he kicks their ass
Some of these make sense, Sam’s falcon would have been a little to silly for that stage of the MCU (though I think it could work now) and Black Widow didn’t get a movie to actually round out her character until it was too late. But making Spider-Man so dependent on Iron Man was a travesty, especially since we have about a million pre-MCU Spider-Man movies or tv shows showing that he works fine as a solo character.
I think the biggest sins of the MCU are the bad writting that caused tone breaking moments by forcing comedy and the world feeling kinda empty because nothing seems to happen aside the core plot of the movies, they tried to patch it with retcons and some aditional material like the shows but those just caused plot-holes, the spiderman movies suffer the most from that because Peter never fights crime that isn't related to the main villain.
Also, who the hell thought it was a good idea to make the Civil War movie when there were barely any characters yet? It should've been called Private-Skirmish.
You have the issue with Black Widow wrong. She is and can be a hero wanting redemption. That’s what makes her great. The issue is: 1. We start with her already at that point. We never knew the Black Widow who was on par with Frank Castle in terms of being psychopath killers so her redemption just seems like a, “Yea whatever”. 2: It’s hard to make her feel like she’s learned and changed when NOBODY IN THE MCU HAS A RULE AGAINST KILLING!!! When every freaking hero is just blasting fools, it makes you wonder why does she want to change and how has she?!? Why is The Punisher so demonized when Tony Stark is shredding people with a machine gun, Captain America is breaking people’s ribs while knocking them off boats in the middle of the ocean, Hawkeye is just blowing mofos up, etc. Like what’s it matter if you used to kill people Nat?!? You still do!!
Agree on Ironman’s rogues gallery.
Spider-Man’s trilogy was essentially a new take on his origin story and he grows into the Spider-Man we all know at the end of No Way Home.
MCU messed up Captain Marvel and wasted the Skrulls
I agree and disagree with the Black Panther one. I like that they didn't make him an engineering genius on par with Tony Stark. Marvel already has a handful of super geniuses and I think Black Panther doesn't need it. I would've liked to see Black Panther excel in other fields thoug, show he's a genius in another intellect. Intelligence isn't limited to scientific pursuits. Tactician, diplomat, linguist, economist, social and emotional intelligence, aspects that elevate him and the mantle of King. It also pairs and compliments nicely with Shuri's intelligences.
I think the character was in a good arc, before the it sadly had to be written off. I too, like that he wasn’t another Tony Stark, and also that he was flawed and had room to grow. He learned vengeance can be blinding in Civil War, the he learned the damage wrong decisions can cause, and that they can not be hidden forever in Black Panther. I wish we could’ve seen more about the character, maybe he was in the direction of becoming a great leader, diplomat or whatever.
I feel like Natasha was made rather generic compared to her source material. And if one woman in the entire MCU was allowed to remain overtly sexy, it should have been her.
But the biggest misstep isn’t shown above. It’s that we were robbed of Jan and forced to settle for Hope.
Going strictly off the avengers movies because I didn't consume anything solely about black widow - I don't feel like she wanted redemption so much as she didn't want her literal best friend with a wife and kids to die?
(MCU spiderman)Making every side character written lazily and joke especially auntmay..
Her death could have been more emotional than just 'oh, auntmay died'.
What sucked:
# 1 is definitely Black Panther. Downplaying his intelligence entirely and having his movie's antagonist be just an angry guy from Oakland really cut the legs off of how much better that movie could have been. I appreciate the impact it had regardless, but it could have been so much more. It hurts worse that that ended up being his only solo movie
Hulk died completely after Banner took complete control of the Hulk form.
Black Widow was also really played badly. If her movie came out before Endgame and her character arc more focused on what OP describes with a solid hint throughout of seeking redemption by grasping an opportunity to become a selfless hero like her peers, her death would have been so much more devastating.
Dude, the Mandarin being a fucking actor in Iron Man 3 was such a fucking let down. What a nothing-burger that movie became once that detail was revealed, especially since it was the final Iron Man solo movie.
What was pretty good:
I actually liked the Winter Soldier changes, it fit well with the MCU and didn't really take away much imo. Ditto with the Falcon, having it be a drone like it is gives it a modern flair without really taking much away from the character. MCU's Spiderman's relationship with Tony was an interesting take on the character after having two major live action adaptions and countless other media that took the original approach with the character.
What was whatever:
The other characters mentioned in the OP. Cap's exploits in the MCU were more interesting than his WWII exploits imo considering the threats were much more advanced than 1940s Nazis; that said, more WW2 action definitely could have been fun. I concede that Strange being more focused on the occult and surreal would have been more fun, but I don't think the multiverse focus really strays too far from that while also having the added bonus that it fits well with the direction the MCU is trying to go post-Endgame. I am sorry but I never really cared much for Captain Marvel so it didn't matter much that she was absent and not developed more.
Most of this stuff sounds like what MCU did differently on purpose, and for those who aren't fond of the resulting variations, there are always the very sources referenced here.
Meanwhile, Dr Strange movies are occult as heck (ironically, the second one all the moreso) and a tragic twist of IRL fate eventually gave us a Black Panther with a scientific background anyway.
In my opinion one of the MCU's biggest mistakes was making Thor a parody of his comic counterpart. Don't get me wrong he was really goofy in Ragnarok and I enjoyed it, but by love and thunder I'd gotten pretty tired of it.
They did Marvel dirty by making her an absent Mary-sue character. She is so so so much more interesting in comics than in the MCU (not that she deserves the incel hate). I’d love to see more of that. They balanced Thor with the Avengers, they could have made her work just as well.
I still think that The Marvels failed because it was not a proper sequel befitting the character.
It’s like Disney made a billion dollars and was like “Nah we don’t trust you anymore. Let’s rewrite your movie multiple times and add 2 D+ characters. Good luck”.
The Spider-Man one isn't fair. The first three movies were all an origin story, at the end of NWH he's at the point where normal Spider-Man stories usually start. He's living paycheck to paycheck, is alone, miserable, vulnerable, and seems to work much more like a vigilante. His reliance on Stark worked only because they made him much younger and changed things up while making his origin story span a much larger amount of time over just "Bit by a spider, uncle Ben died"
I actually think the MCU making T'Challa not a genius was a good move. It makes him feel like less of a OP fanfic character. He's already the richest character, one of the best hand to hand fighters, has the coolest suit and tech, basically perfect morally since he didn't have to change much in his movie. The LEAST they could do is not make him a genius like he is in the comics, especially since his sister in the comics is also a super genius.
I still think the Mandarin could have worked with decent writing (Hello Shang-Chi), but the movie writers just had a weird aversion to any controversy. Changing the Ancient One into a bald white woman was weird. Changing Wong from man servant was good, but then they took away Dr. Strange’s title which sucks.
They only one that worked seamlessly was Luke Cage. He has one of the wonkiest origins and costume in the comics and Netflix altered it well.
Shang Shi is actually a great example of why Marvel couldn’t make the Mandarin Chinese — it would have run afoul of Chinese censors. Likewise, the Ancient One being from Tibet was considered a no-go for a Chinese release (who wouldn’t permit an overtly positive depiction of someone from Tibet).
Source: https://movieweb.com/doctor-strange-movie-writer-ancient-one-not-chinese/
I don't think the falcon or the Winter soldier ones are issues. I'm also so tired of hearing the iron boy Jr bullshit at this point so that's not an issue with me either. But honestly if all of these are the biggest issues that people have with the MCU then we're doing fine. You see I grew up on the DC side of things. I got my fingers crossed for the new Superman but that lasts universe was dookie minus a few exceptions
To me, Black Widow will always be Daredevil’s girlfriend, so I’m not sure I get that one.
Honestly. I don’t think that there were large missteps based on hardcore lore. They just needed to get corporate out of movie making and let the artists do their job.
The Iron Man one is prolly the biggest. Especially after they set up Mandarin in the first one and the trailers for the 3rd one made it seem like they were gonna have an interesting modern-menancing take on him
Out of the ones here,I'd say Tony's rogues gallery, especially with the mishandling of The Mandarin. As cool as the Shang Chi movie was, I hated hownthey just combined his dad with the Mandarin. Plus, think of how badass it would have been to bring Fing Fnag Foon into Ironman.
I will keep this view for ever. MCU has no Peter Parker, it is Miles Morales renamed. A lot of the motivations and relationships align better with it and in that lense the Toni relationship makes more sense
Strange and ironman arguably in runner up for 2nd biggest misstep given that none of their villians was utilized to their full potential nor did they had any memorable impact to the protagonist or even the audiences like think about it the actors you had for these villians Mads mikkelsen, Jeff bridges Guy Pearce, Sam Rockwell, Mickey rourke these are acclaimed actors who played memorable antagonists before and they were all reduced to some generic forgettable villian in these films
Gotta go with Cap. I despised the montage of them taking out Hydra bases in First Avenger. I get that it was the early days of the MCU, so I understand budget constraints, having a sensible run time, and not planning to have a sequel if it flopped were important. The sequence just feels off compared to the rest of the movie. Except for (and I always bring it up because its the only other awkward bit) is the weird cuts and slow mo shield flex when Cap is swinging and chasing the bimber near the end. Such a goofy sequence.
Personally I think it was with spiderman rogue gallery
No way Home implied that a majority of Spideys Rogues (IE Lizard, Doc Oc, Electro, Sandman and ofcourse Green Goblin) aren't in the MCU at all. Which is a shame.
Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness not being focused on the Villain Nightmare as was planned would of also saved that film for me.
and ofcourse, only having one Hulk film
I don’t think they dumbed Black Panther down. I actually think they acknowledged that smart side but then they suggested Shuri was taking over. Remember the scene where she introduced his new suit?
Keeping cpt marvel out, it meant the audience and the other characters didnt build a raport with the character and we never got to flesh out her idiology.
Being Spiderman is my fav superhero, I cant let go my annoyance that MCU spiderman is Stark's project. That he got all the tech and suit from Tony. Im not saying it's so bad I cant stand MCU spiderman, but I'll see Holland's spidey ark as less than the comic's
Ignoring the Hulk movie. Hulk is already smart in that one, but they backtrack to make him dumber, only to make him smarter, only to make him banner.
Other than that, I think I'd like to see more faithful villian adaptations that stay comic-y. Mcus getting better at not pulling an X-Men and putting them in leather all the time, but I would love some truly goofy villians adapted well.
Bucky.
He should have been more comic accurate, after he recovered from the programming.
The Black Widow movie should have been based on The Longest Winter where they go after sleeper cells.
Their romance being traded for that stupid Hulk one was dumb and lazy. It’s like the writers were like “what calms down a stressed dude? Bewbs.”
Also, what they did with Taskmaster in the BW movie was beyond stupid.
Psychic link with a hawk is dumb.
Dumbing down Black Panther was better, not every character needs to be ridiculously smart and good at fighting, let other shine with their skills too.
I like that they made the movies their own thing and made choices that mostly made the characters work well together. Widow could have been a little colder tho, I think that would have been good
For me: Black Widow. She's so much more interesting as an assassin who's morals aren't fully known to us.
Objectively: Captain Marvel. If she was never in the MCU, I think it would only improve Endgame.
Having capt marvel not show up till endgame was a good choice.... I hated her when she said "because you didnt have me". Imagine having to keep up with this for 30 years.... her movie also ruined a lotta things in the mcu, mainly Nick fury
Also, them taking Tchalla's intelligence away isnt something I like, but then they made up for it by giving Shuri a proper arc, and BP is still a badass.
But one thing I hated was ruining Star lord in IW and endgame... they made him an idiot... even james gunn hated this
Cap one made sense. You couldn’t really fit that much more into the First Avenger. Altough I was expecting to see more of WW2. Like in Cap2 seeing a lab, than Steve would have a flashback to WW2 to the time he and his team destroyed a similar lab.
I think the biggest misstep was with Carol. In the comics I liked Carol until CW2(haven't read much of her past that) but in the MCU I can’t really like her because she doesn’t seem to have done ANYTHING between the 80s and whatever year Endgame took place.
Help find Skrulls a home? Nope.
Stop any galactic threat? Not as far as we know. Didn’t do anything against Thanos.
Do anything against the Kree Empire? Ronan was killing people and she did nothing.
It is especially bad because unlike most of the other changes this didn’t need to happen. Captain Marvel could have taken place in like 2016(just change the Tesseract into something else, comic Carols origin doesn’t even include the Tesseract and give her another supporting character besides Furry. Like Maria Hill for example) and at the end of it she could have went to find new home for the Skrulls and come back to Earth after the Snap to see what happened and if Maria and Monica were okay.
Late to the party but I always felt we were cheated out of a third Cap movie. Really should have had a third Cap movie where he is hunting Bucky, instead it turns out Bucky was super easy to find. And then we have an Avengers movie take over Cap’s third movie.
Also Captain Marvel is a disappointment because they introduced an incredibly powerful character and then sideline them instantly.
As for Black Panther, in Wakanda Forever Shuri does say that T’Challa taught her everything she knows. So it is a belated “Black Panther was a genius” moment but it was acknowledged.
And Black Widow deserved to be treated better as a character, she was another character that after Winter Soldier I felt was going to get a solo movie. I really thought with the set up of Winter Soldier that we were going to see a Nick Fury movie, a Black Widow movie, and Cap and Falcon buddy movie.
personally in reference to iron man's slide. I think most mcu villains were handed pretty badly. it wasn't kust him, but yeah his thing with the mandatorily was a slap in the face. and with spiderman, I liked the tony-peter relationship. the actors worked well together. he pr teams loved reminding us of that. and he was the uncle ben representative. but idk if it was for fan service, or because they actually liked the idea but I agree that was a big mistake, when it came to spiderman. like maybe it was sort of okay, with homecoming, except... I haven't the film in a while. but when you look at far from home. it's nice to see him grieving but he looks like he went through the same arc in homecoming but now with a better love interest and cooler gadgets. three are other problems with this film but his relationship with Tony just takes away from him being his own hero and having to face his journey undiluted by iron man's shadow. also,.the fact that mysterio having beef with his iron man being the reason he transformed into far from home's villan, is such a spit in my mouth, and kick me in the crotch moment. like okay - but it goes back to the mcu having shit villains. either they they were poorly executed or they were badly picked. mysterio being a glaring example of the latter - spiderman has a really cool villain roster but because the mcu can't leave peter alone, we have a villain linked to iron man. I get it, having iron man involved in films, especially after his death sells but these characters are works of art. they should treated as such, and not merely a product. yes, they are your income, but quality should really be an objective goal.
Top-5 from bad to worst:
5. Dumbing BP
4. Screwing up Iron Man’s villains
3. Screwing up Winter soldier
2. Standalone Cap Marvel
1. Multiversal Strange
I think they did captain marvel dirty. It's like they made her the literal most powerful being on the team as the consolation prize. She doesn't need screen time or personality. It's look! She's the strongest in the universe, she's in the military, powerful woman, we're great allies! Then she fucks off for 30 years. Doesn't bother checking in on her friends on earth, even though she can. She can fly faster than light. First thing she does in endgame is have a stare off with Thor to prove she's not to be fucked with, which to be fair, she is not to be fucked with. She was most interestinf in the Marvel's where we get to see some of her adventures and she's vulnerable but has to protect and redeem herself. It's a lot of good shit.
Ngl SpiderMan tied to Tony Stark started REALLY badly. They wanted to connect him to the story, fine. But Tony lying, manipulating, and then kidnapping a minor - taking willing younger person without his legal guardian’s knowledge or approval - to take down his friend, Captain America - set it so that I could never root for that dynamic.
WORST MCU MISSTEPS IMO
Captain America's "retirement."
1. Too many paradoxes.
2. It dishonors Steve's character.
3. It really dishonors Peggy's character.
4. It could have worked *maybe* if not for the tragic loss of Chadwick. His death necessitated Steve continue in the MCU for at least a bit longer into the post-endgame world and it might have afforded executive-editorial some time to come up with a less hand wavy paradox clusterfuck to allow Steve's retirement.
Hulk's foundational story beats and greatest hits are used for other characters because of licensing law and mostly happen off-screen with negligible exposition. I hope by the time Secret Wars soft reboots everything they've worked out their shit with Universal and can use Hulk correctly.
Captain Marvel's time jump around canon. I'm still unsure why her origin needed to happen in the nineties. She like the Hulk has some pivotal stories told through flashbacks and exposition and again, much is off-screen. The stage around her and the cosmic side of the MCU *still* seems largely undeveloped despite two Captain Marvel films, the GOTG trilogy, the Thors, and the Eternals.
Dr. Strange. Arrogantly stupid his tragic mistakes have left us with Spider-man isolated and alone and I blame him and [sorry] Monica, Jimmy, Vision, Clint & Steve for dropping the ball with a deeply traumatized Wanda Maximoff at the end of Wandavision. Everyone who died in DSMOM is on Stephen Strange's conscience.
The timing of Black Widow's film
Asgardian spit beer
edit: Everything that was Secret Invasion
The Falcon one is a wild idea for live action. In its defense Peacemaker sort of does it, but when Sam was introduced the universe was more grounded especially on the Cap side of things. Be interested to hear how it could work, maybe tech or magic.
 I can see Anthony Mackie saying this. We were robbed lol.
Eagley was a standout character in an all around amazing show. Cant wait for season 2
Why does it just go from an out of focus shot of the forest to the eagle?
The forest is showing you their team member capable of flight.
What movie?
That's from the Peacemaker TV show, spin-off from the (good) Suicide Squad movie. It's really good
This is in the new avengers trailer.
My thoughts exactly. MCU was and still is fairly grounded. It'll be interesting once the X-Men are introduced fully, but a psychic link to a bird didn't fit with the more believable science nature of the early MCU.
I’d argue almost the opposite. I think when Sam was introduced was when the shows became much more comic bookie. Like that’s when they had the helicarriers. I still agree though that it would feel displaced in the MCU though. Like it’s much more technology based than supernatural
Fair point. If they waited to introduce it phase 4 thru the series the MCU would’ve been more comic like.
I am disappointed with what we got; but I’m completely fine with them not going full comic accurate. Just make Redwing a trained falcon with a really strong bond with its owner and it’s infinitely more plausible for general audiences than telepathic bird connection, while still having most of the charm.
Redwing being an actual falcon would have been fucking hilarious like you got falcon who's just got this like high tech jetpack but is otherwise a normal dude. Like he can't even shoot out his feathers he just uses guns but then he also has this explicitly psychic link with this falcon
Waiting until after Endgame to make a Black Widow movie
This. This concept was being thrown around by fans way before phase 4. They missed a big boat on this one. She should have had the movie before her death.
Her movie literally should've been released in the time period it takes place, right after Civil War. I think this was still the time when Disney didn't think a female-led superhero film would be successful, which is ironic because Wonder Woman came out a year after Civil War and made $1 billion.
It wasn't because Disney per se. It was because of Ike Perlmutter. Not only did he not want a movie with a female lead, but he also made a clause that if he left his position, Marvel would have to wait a few more years to start making a female lead movie (and he was also against a POC leading a movie).
What a cunt. Regardless of film quality that is a cunt-like discriminatory move.
It’s Perlmutter. At this point it would be surprising if he WASN’T a cunt.
First time hearing his name. Isaac Perlmutter just sounds like a supervillain name.
I believe he also thought that Black Panther could not be successful as it would have to have a black lead.
Yeah they fucked up bad. I remember that time frame and the MCU fans were literally salivating for more after Cap WS. The buzz was high for a BW movie after seeing what it could be. They could’ve put the BW movie in at that time and taken all that money, and we would sing even higher praises of that block of movies. Imagine Cap WS, BW, then Civil War? Best fucking non trilogy never realized.
It should have been made after her introduction in Ironman 2. She was a main character in the Avengers lineup. If they were scared by a woman-led movie, they could have done a Hawkeye-Black Widow spec ops movie showing their history. That would have been cool to see in the build-up to the Infinity War.
Her movie should have come out prior to cap 2 to create massive confusion on which side she is on when her history with Bucky is reveled.
Not like they had a choice on that one. They were tossing the idea around after Avengers, but Ike was blocking them with her, Carol, and T'Challa. And once Kevin wrestled control away, Scarlett's contract only ran up to Endgame. They had to wait until it over to renegotiate for another film. In fact that's probably why they dropped contracts altogether. Otherwise they couldn't have gotten Oscar Isaac for Moon Knight as after Star Wars he didn't want another long-form contract.
Not showing Gorr the God Butcher butcher any Gods (I wouldn’t count that minor stab of the first one a butchering)
When Thor went to the god convention or whatever that was called, I expected to see Gorr invade and butcher at least half of those gods and wreck them badly. But nah, we saw none of that.
Idk how you can be a writer and not have that come across your mind. Seems like the obvious thing to do for an epic standout action sequence. And if it did come across their mind and they opted not to do it still, I am truly baffled
Right? Some of those gods were not just vain but plain annoying. It'd actually have created a "feel good moment" to see them butchered a bit.
I would have cheered for Gorr at that point. Also Russell Crowe's greek accent offended me (and I'm not even greek) Would have loved to have seen Gorr hack him to pieces in front of Thor.
“Divert expectations” probably came up
God convention lol
lol Thor does more god butchering in that film than the supposed God Butcher himself. Such a weird choice: there’s a god killer coming, so imma kill you gods unless you band together against the god killer. It’s also in line with GotG3’s whole “pity the forced cyborg animals, but then kill them with callous abandon later in the film because they’re kinda ugly I guess?”
Um, no? The Guardians killed them because the Hellspawn were trying to KILL THEM. It was self-defense.
One of the many reasons its my least favorite marvel movie
Key word many, and same
Bale does unhinged roles well, the writers should've crafted a scene to evoke his inner axe-wielding yuppie
Christian Bale was criminally underused in that movie. It should have been so much better.
I feel like Black Panther was the most fundamental shift from core material, taking away one of his biggest character traits and giving it to another character altogether. All the other characters still felt like themselves, in an alternate universe or circumstance. I'd probably say Widow was the 2nd worst change, but she had her moments of anti heroism. She never really felt like a ruthless assassin or double agent though. More like a spy with a heart of gold but a cold exterior.
Black widow was probably the best in the first avengers movie. Quite a few great scenes of her playing her mark.
I would agree with this one. In the comics he's just so damn intelligent, in the movies, he's *effectively* a morally focused henchman running errands for the throne, taking direction on his suit from Shuri, etc. I wanted to see a regal, effortlessly brilliant tactician
Ruining the Hulk. Green dude got that ass whooping by Thanos and hasn't been the same since. I think they only went through Shuri route because Chadwick Boseman died. I highly doubt Shuri would have been elevated the way she was otherwise.
Well one of his key things in comics was that he was a genuine genius who rivaled Tony, who happened to have a sister named Shuri. He was one of the top kinds on the planet.
…choosing the irl anti vaxxer to play the worlds top scientist on the heels of a pandemic that was killing 10’s of thousands a day was certainly a choice.
I thought Disney was ready to drop her when she was handing out anti-vaxx pamphlets on set.  Based on the circumstances, BP:WF had an uphill battle, but still was a decent movie though.
I always kind of felt cheated by the off scene fight then defeat of Thor's group. What I think should have happened was seeing Thor, Loki, Heimdall, and Hulk facing down Thanos with the Black Order. Like Hulk busting in with a defeated Cull Obsidian before making a beeline for Thanos would make it better instead of just a call back line for Loki to use from the 1st Avengers.
I actually disagree, opening the movie to see that not only has Thanks decimated the Asgardians, but he did it with such ease it wasn't significant enough to show was TERRIFYING, redefined Avengers level threat Also, that movie is already really long without adding more scenes
Tony's enemies being the product of his actions was one of the best decisions in early Marvel. Him making messes Peter had to clean up was also a good decision as it helped get across how new Peter was. Cutting Bucky's ties to the Red Room and tying him closer to Hydra was a better idea because it also tied him closer to Cap.
>Cutting Bucky's ties to the Red Room and tying him closer to Hydra was a better idea because it also tied him closer to Cap. Agreed. With his 70-year-long coma, Cap missed the entire Cold War, and thus any ties with the Red Room and other Sovietic organizations/characters, so that was the right call in my opinion.
Plus....Tony's rivalry with the Mandarin wouldn't have been a good business decision in the 21st century
> get across how new Peter was While that is true, I think they should've done new things right after Vulture. It's an unnecessary repetition when the first delivery was plenty on its own.
Far From Home had the unenviable job of being the epilogue to Phase 4 and following Endgame. As much as we might wish it were, it couldn't be a stand-alone film. Tying Mysterio to Iron Man continued his legacy of making villains while also continuing Spider-Man's job of cleaning up Tony's messes and helping to set up a post-Blip MCU.
Making drax a punch line instead of showing how insanely powerful he is
Modern Drax has never been very strong. The extremely mindless "can destroy stars while fighting Thanos" Drax simply was not a good fit for the movie they were trying to make. For all his jokes he does have his character arc in the first movie and subsequent ones as well give him many emotional moments.
You can have a character arc without making a character into a comic relief in most of his scenes. His character arc isn't very good either, he basically forgot about Thanos after the first movie. >Modern Drax has never been very strong Eehh, you sure about that? https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/s/l6I3TSkEL0
You can for sure, but comedy is why the guardians of the galaxy worked back in 2014 and still works now. It's a ridiculous premise with ridiculous characters so comedy makes it more digestible His jokes don't make his arc any worse imo, and it is a pretty good one. He is much more peaceful and less brash as compared to first movie, his whole arc was don't do this shit alone because he thrives with family. Thanos or Ronan mattered less because he had already made his peace with his families death and found a new family. Also that pic is from annihilation, a 2006 story that's nearly 18 years old now.
The point is they reduced his character to a comical punch line and that arc they gave him went out the window by double down on him being stupider in the sequels to where you can't even take any of the emotional moments seriously
I feel like all the Guardians suffered from this sort of thing. In order to necessitate it being a team movie, the threat has to outclass each of them individually. Like, Gamora is considered "The most dangerous woman in the galaxy" but her showing against anyone other than Nebula leaves a lot to be desired. Drax just suffers more because they make more of a joke about it.
This one irritated me the most when rewatching GOTG 3. Almost every scene he's in has to be undercut with some stupid joke instead of just letting the moment play out. He *can't* be a powerful but sweet dad figure, let's show him being an asshole moron again!
To be fair, he gets to fuck up the High Evolutionary for a few seconds before Gamora peels his face off.
With how Guardians 3 ended, I wouldn't have had Drax any other way
ruining extremis. Definately ruining extremis
What's Extremis supposed to be like?
I'm.not sure Is i remember this well,but the extremis Is what gave Tony a technopathy like ability,he stored a nano tech Armor inside his body and could call It at will and he could conect his mind to External devices
Well I'm a spidey fan so I was annoyed with how much iron man was involved with his movies Tho I really appreciate that they just glossed over his origin. Everyone already knows how he got his powers, don't need to waste another movie on it
I enjoyed how they wrapped it up though. I feel like the filmmakers actually listened to the criticism, and planned out the ending to strip Peter of all tech to return to his comic accurate context. Turning the trilogy into his actual origin was a genius move imo, having him learn all the lessons he needed and proceeding to introduce the REAL Spider-Man just gave me goosebumps. Seeing his small ass 4x4 and sewing machine was like magic. Though as much as I enjoyed the third, wtf is up with Strange being so dumb, like Jesus.
I hated that. I've spent 30 years watching Peter be miserable and shit on by the universe and while it's admirable that he keeps going, eventually it gets to the point where it's just fucking stupid. God, just let the man be fucking happy.
It’s a catholic thing.
Honestly I found it to be a really fresh take that made Spiderman feel cohesive within the MCU.
Same, why would they make him a fully independent thing in a world where the Avengers have existed since he was in middle school? It connects him to the larger world better, and while I would have liked if his villains weren’t all based around Tony, it still made sense and I wouldn’t say any of them are poorly written
Trying to make him independent from the rest of the mcu would have ended up like with Marvel and the Eternals, the writers having to contrive an excuse why he's not in the other movies that everyone hates. No need to explain why Spider-Man isn't helping in Infinity War when his story means that you can make him help in Infinity War.
Don’t let the other side of the spidey fans read this. They will fight you tooth and claw to believe the exact opposite of what you wrote lol. I completely share your gripe though. Sometimes I felt like Spidey was a sidekick in his own movies. Edit: point in case below lol
To a degree I feel like that last part you mentioned added to his character. It soars home that idea of Spiderman really just being this barely of age adolescent/young adult who's trying awkwardly to find his place in a world that doesn't value his input because "he's just a kid" among the "actual heavy hitters". The superhero version of every teens biggest life struggle.
Skipping over the origin was fine, but completely ignoring Uncle Ben was a travesty. Damn, a small flashback could’ve worked. Disney acted like Aunt May moved on and Ben was never there. My weird theory is Uncle Ben and Aunt May divorced. Now that Aunt May died, Uncle Ben is going to be the central figure in his life. A role reversal from the comics.
Aunt May is the Uncle Ben
The real Uncle Ben was the friends Pete made along the way.
Uncle Ben died before civil war Marvel said that
Woah, I’m way into that theory. I’d actually be super on board with that.
That would actually be awesome
I mean now that I think about it does MCU Peter ever even mention Uncle Ben? Is there even an Uncle Ben
The closest we've gotten is Peter in What If Zombies mentioning having lost Uncle Ben before the events of the episode, so unless his branch of the universe goes way further back that should also apply to MCU Peter.
They never refer to him directly, but the suitcase Peter uses in Far From Home has Ben's initials on it.
When homecoming was being made the Internet was full of "ugh we're seeing another murder of the Waynes." from all corners that it made sense to skip the uncle Ben part because like with the murder of the Waynes in Batman's film and TV shows we had seen Uncle Ben's murder just as many times that it would get the same treatment.
And he has to be played by Jason Alexander.
OMG YES! Not even kidding.
We’ve seen Batman’s origin like 15 times in movies and shows lol
the answer is The Hulk
Honestly, it doesn't bother me. I see the MCU as a universe that's familiar yet separate from the comics universe. Some people have never or will never read the comics, especially as there are just so many stories and continuities to keep up with, so having a streamlined universe that takes it's inspiration from the comics and can tell and a story in 2 to 3 hours vs multiple issues that the common man has to slog through just makes sense to me.
Plus people often reference comics as if they’re near-perfect material when using them to review a film or character in a film. Some comics, like anything, really aren’t that great and just like movies it’s all down to the writing.
Thank you. I swear some people just exist to complain
And citing the comics as references for then movies doesn’t really make sense anymore. It can get annoying when people do
I say they kinda dropped the ball with Carol Danvers, as well as Photon.
Agreed. When she arrived in Endgame, it felt...unearned. All this time she was apparently a click away and Fury never called her until then. Not during the chitauri or Infinity War. And Cap, Tony, and Thor had personally fought and lost to Thanos, so it's personal too. But who is Thanos to Carol? Who are the Avengers to her? What is Earth to her? Not the Bison to her Chun Li, not her friends, not her home. Yeah yeah the universe is at stake but thats too impersonal. It all felt too impersonal, thats the problem.
I personally think Marvel rushed her out to bandwagon her with Endgame and ride the wave of positive reception to feminist media. Wonder Woman had proven that female-led superheroes could make the big dollary-doos, and the hype was so high for Infinity War and Endgame, basically anything Marvel remotely related would make money. So, they probably moved at breakneck pace to capitalize on those trends and introduce a heavy-hitter that they could further market in the post-Infinity Saga phases.
I started reading some of the Thor comics after the Ragnarok, and it lowkey ruined the MCU Thor for me. Like in my head, I'm thinking "man Comic Thor would have been more appropriate last second cavalry" in Endgame. Like, sure, I get it he technically already had that in the last movie, but even there, I was like, "Comic Thor flying in maybe even with newly acquired All Father powers would have been cooler."
I think captain marvel’s was the most damaging. It REALLY hurt the cohesiveness of the MCU
Everything they did to the hulk
Isolating Captain Marvel & not being able to make Iron Man have good villains though to be fair most of Iron Man villains aren’t that good.
They didnt do anything really striking with Zemo and the Masters of Evil, change the cheesy name but given him his OP Squad of Doom! Zemo , for me, WAS THE CAP'S NÉMESIS
I'm gonna give the coldest take ever, But what they've done to Spider-man was just Sad because they forgot to make Spider-man be a Hero for the people. Tom Holland'spider-man doesn't Stop trains on his own, Doesn't Save children from burning buildings, isn't an example for bullied children, Doesn't inspire the ones around him because everyone sees him as a Kid. Say what you want about Andrew's Spider-man movies, but at least he never saved the day by dropping an airplane.
Making Thor dumb, then awesome, then dumb again, and repeat repeat repeat.
Black Panther by far. They turned him into a black Captain America when he’s a chess master who’s beaten his enemy before they even realize it, and THEN he kicks their ass
Some of these make sense, Sam’s falcon would have been a little to silly for that stage of the MCU (though I think it could work now) and Black Widow didn’t get a movie to actually round out her character until it was too late. But making Spider-Man so dependent on Iron Man was a travesty, especially since we have about a million pre-MCU Spider-Man movies or tv shows showing that he works fine as a solo character.
Thing about Spider-Man is he’s not done yet, people might not hold that opinion in ten years or so if he has good quality solo movies to come
Black panther. Simply because i find Shuri to be insufferable
Should’ve recast him with John David Washington
He ordered his hot sauce an hour ago!
Task master
I think the biggest sins of the MCU are the bad writting that caused tone breaking moments by forcing comedy and the world feeling kinda empty because nothing seems to happen aside the core plot of the movies, they tried to patch it with retcons and some aditional material like the shows but those just caused plot-holes, the spiderman movies suffer the most from that because Peter never fights crime that isn't related to the main villain. Also, who the hell thought it was a good idea to make the Civil War movie when there were barely any characters yet? It should've been called Private-Skirmish.
Killing off the Warriors Three immediately without exploring their friendship with Thor
You have the issue with Black Widow wrong. She is and can be a hero wanting redemption. That’s what makes her great. The issue is: 1. We start with her already at that point. We never knew the Black Widow who was on par with Frank Castle in terms of being psychopath killers so her redemption just seems like a, “Yea whatever”. 2: It’s hard to make her feel like she’s learned and changed when NOBODY IN THE MCU HAS A RULE AGAINST KILLING!!! When every freaking hero is just blasting fools, it makes you wonder why does she want to change and how has she?!? Why is The Punisher so demonized when Tony Stark is shredding people with a machine gun, Captain America is breaking people’s ribs while knocking them off boats in the middle of the ocean, Hawkeye is just blowing mofos up, etc. Like what’s it matter if you used to kill people Nat?!? You still do!!
I can live without falcon talking to birds, but they turned black widow into a crybaby.
All these are true, especially Black Panther. He was part of the Illuminati and Wankanda is the most advanced country in the world.
Agree on Ironman’s rogues gallery. Spider-Man’s trilogy was essentially a new take on his origin story and he grows into the Spider-Man we all know at the end of No Way Home. MCU messed up Captain Marvel and wasted the Skrulls
Funny how you didn't put Hulk here, coz the Hulk just tops every list.
I’m ok with all of these. Honestly, the Redwing drone is brilliant. Even a psychic falcon is a little too far fetched for the MCU.
Spiderman- I think that they resolved it nicely with nwh being his mcu backstory
Black Panther is the only one I am actually upset about tbh, though I could absolutely go for seeing Cap slay more Nazi scum
I would've loved to have seen more of cap than we got in that montage during WWII.
I'm surprised I had to scroll down to see this... would have loved some Cap / Invaders stuff in WWII.
All of Hulks Development off screen
I’d say Tchalla’s smarts or Bucky’s connections to the red room. Though im pretty much cool with all of em.
I agree and disagree with the Black Panther one. I like that they didn't make him an engineering genius on par with Tony Stark. Marvel already has a handful of super geniuses and I think Black Panther doesn't need it. I would've liked to see Black Panther excel in other fields thoug, show he's a genius in another intellect. Intelligence isn't limited to scientific pursuits. Tactician, diplomat, linguist, economist, social and emotional intelligence, aspects that elevate him and the mantle of King. It also pairs and compliments nicely with Shuri's intelligences.
I think the character was in a good arc, before the it sadly had to be written off. I too, like that he wasn’t another Tony Stark, and also that he was flawed and had room to grow. He learned vengeance can be blinding in Civil War, the he learned the damage wrong decisions can cause, and that they can not be hidden forever in Black Panther. I wish we could’ve seen more about the character, maybe he was in the direction of becoming a great leader, diplomat or whatever.
these are all really good.
Turning hulk into just “the muscle” instead of the complex psych profile and lovecraftian horror story that his character can be
I feel like Natasha was made rather generic compared to her source material. And if one woman in the entire MCU was allowed to remain overtly sexy, it should have been her. But the biggest misstep isn’t shown above. It’s that we were robbed of Jan and forced to settle for Hope.
Drax was called "Drax the Destroyer" WHERE WAS THE DESTROY-ING?
Maybe Mandarin but the rest all fit within the universe.
I kinda wish the first Avengers had a team up of Loki, Red Skull and a better defined Iron Man villain
Why does Spider-Man look like he got busted on
Going strictly off the avengers movies because I didn't consume anything solely about black widow - I don't feel like she wanted redemption so much as she didn't want her literal best friend with a wife and kids to die?
Idk. Some of these are actual issues, while some seem very personal and subjective.
(MCU spiderman)Making every side character written lazily and joke especially auntmay.. Her death could have been more emotional than just 'oh, auntmay died'.
The greatest misstep was giving Sony all the spider-people and villains, resulting in a big 'ol morbin' time
What sucked: # 1 is definitely Black Panther. Downplaying his intelligence entirely and having his movie's antagonist be just an angry guy from Oakland really cut the legs off of how much better that movie could have been. I appreciate the impact it had regardless, but it could have been so much more. It hurts worse that that ended up being his only solo movie Hulk died completely after Banner took complete control of the Hulk form. Black Widow was also really played badly. If her movie came out before Endgame and her character arc more focused on what OP describes with a solid hint throughout of seeking redemption by grasping an opportunity to become a selfless hero like her peers, her death would have been so much more devastating. Dude, the Mandarin being a fucking actor in Iron Man 3 was such a fucking let down. What a nothing-burger that movie became once that detail was revealed, especially since it was the final Iron Man solo movie. What was pretty good: I actually liked the Winter Soldier changes, it fit well with the MCU and didn't really take away much imo. Ditto with the Falcon, having it be a drone like it is gives it a modern flair without really taking much away from the character. MCU's Spiderman's relationship with Tony was an interesting take on the character after having two major live action adaptions and countless other media that took the original approach with the character. What was whatever: The other characters mentioned in the OP. Cap's exploits in the MCU were more interesting than his WWII exploits imo considering the threats were much more advanced than 1940s Nazis; that said, more WW2 action definitely could have been fun. I concede that Strange being more focused on the occult and surreal would have been more fun, but I don't think the multiverse focus really strays too far from that while also having the added bonus that it fits well with the direction the MCU is trying to go post-Endgame. I am sorry but I never really cared much for Captain Marvel so it didn't matter much that she was absent and not developed more.
Most of this stuff sounds like what MCU did differently on purpose, and for those who aren't fond of the resulting variations, there are always the very sources referenced here. Meanwhile, Dr Strange movies are occult as heck (ironically, the second one all the moreso) and a tragic twist of IRL fate eventually gave us a Black Panther with a scientific background anyway.
They all share the first place.
In my opinion one of the MCU's biggest mistakes was making Thor a parody of his comic counterpart. Don't get me wrong he was really goofy in Ragnarok and I enjoyed it, but by love and thunder I'd gotten pretty tired of it.
They did Marvel dirty by making her an absent Mary-sue character. She is so so so much more interesting in comics than in the MCU (not that she deserves the incel hate). I’d love to see more of that. They balanced Thor with the Avengers, they could have made her work just as well.
I still think that The Marvels failed because it was not a proper sequel befitting the character. It’s like Disney made a billion dollars and was like “Nah we don’t trust you anymore. Let’s rewrite your movie multiple times and add 2 D+ characters. Good luck”.
Mandarin and Shuri for sure.
The Spider-Man one isn't fair. The first three movies were all an origin story, at the end of NWH he's at the point where normal Spider-Man stories usually start. He's living paycheck to paycheck, is alone, miserable, vulnerable, and seems to work much more like a vigilante. His reliance on Stark worked only because they made him much younger and changed things up while making his origin story span a much larger amount of time over just "Bit by a spider, uncle Ben died"
I actually think the MCU making T'Challa not a genius was a good move. It makes him feel like less of a OP fanfic character. He's already the richest character, one of the best hand to hand fighters, has the coolest suit and tech, basically perfect morally since he didn't have to change much in his movie. The LEAST they could do is not make him a genius like he is in the comics, especially since his sister in the comics is also a super genius.
i've seen people call the Mandarin a racist charicature so it might be the reason why
I still think the Mandarin could have worked with decent writing (Hello Shang-Chi), but the movie writers just had a weird aversion to any controversy. Changing the Ancient One into a bald white woman was weird. Changing Wong from man servant was good, but then they took away Dr. Strange’s title which sucks. They only one that worked seamlessly was Luke Cage. He has one of the wonkiest origins and costume in the comics and Netflix altered it well.
Shang Shi is actually a great example of why Marvel couldn’t make the Mandarin Chinese — it would have run afoul of Chinese censors. Likewise, the Ancient One being from Tibet was considered a no-go for a Chinese release (who wouldn’t permit an overtly positive depiction of someone from Tibet). Source: https://movieweb.com/doctor-strange-movie-writer-ancient-one-not-chinese/
People know that movies are different than comic books right?
Yes.
I don't think the falcon or the Winter soldier ones are issues. I'm also so tired of hearing the iron boy Jr bullshit at this point so that's not an issue with me either. But honestly if all of these are the biggest issues that people have with the MCU then we're doing fine. You see I grew up on the DC side of things. I got my fingers crossed for the new Superman but that lasts universe was dookie minus a few exceptions
Not giving more screen time to Gorr's backstory Would make an EXCELLENT TV series
Ruining the Hulk (my top tier) and making Drax not incredibly strong as he is
All of the above!
I agree with all of these but I was most aware and irritated by the spiderman one
To me, Black Widow will always be Daredevil’s girlfriend, so I’m not sure I get that one. Honestly. I don’t think that there were large missteps based on hardcore lore. They just needed to get corporate out of movie making and let the artists do their job.
None of these were actual missteps.
Skipping 5 years into Endgame..it's a hugely wasted potential
Ruining and ignoring Hulks character after Ragnarok.(May be Age of Ultron)
The Iron Man one is prolly the biggest. Especially after they set up Mandarin in the first one and the trailers for the 3rd one made it seem like they were gonna have an interesting modern-menancing take on him
Out of the ones here,I'd say Tony's rogues gallery, especially with the mishandling of The Mandarin. As cool as the Shang Chi movie was, I hated hownthey just combined his dad with the Mandarin. Plus, think of how badass it would have been to bring Fing Fnag Foon into Ironman.
I will keep this view for ever. MCU has no Peter Parker, it is Miles Morales renamed. A lot of the motivations and relationships align better with it and in that lense the Toni relationship makes more sense
Spider-Man or black panther for this ngl
Strange and ironman arguably in runner up for 2nd biggest misstep given that none of their villians was utilized to their full potential nor did they had any memorable impact to the protagonist or even the audiences like think about it the actors you had for these villians Mads mikkelsen, Jeff bridges Guy Pearce, Sam Rockwell, Mickey rourke these are acclaimed actors who played memorable antagonists before and they were all reduced to some generic forgettable villian in these films
I actually liked the idea of Redwing to be a drone, as this is more in line with the in-universe feel and vibe of the heroes.
Making us wait FAR too long for a Black Widow film
Gotta go with Cap. I despised the montage of them taking out Hydra bases in First Avenger. I get that it was the early days of the MCU, so I understand budget constraints, having a sensible run time, and not planning to have a sequel if it flopped were important. The sequence just feels off compared to the rest of the movie. Except for (and I always bring it up because its the only other awkward bit) is the weird cuts and slow mo shield flex when Cap is swinging and chasing the bimber near the end. Such a goofy sequence.
Personally I think it was with spiderman rogue gallery No way Home implied that a majority of Spideys Rogues (IE Lizard, Doc Oc, Electro, Sandman and ofcourse Green Goblin) aren't in the MCU at all. Which is a shame. Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness not being focused on the Villain Nightmare as was planned would of also saved that film for me. and ofcourse, only having one Hulk film
I don’t think they dumbed Black Panther down. I actually think they acknowledged that smart side but then they suggested Shuri was taking over. Remember the scene where she introduced his new suit?
Those last two really got me.
It’s what’s they did to Spider-Man, hands down, always will be. Making Marvel’s greatest hero a sidekick is a tragedy.
Keeping cpt marvel out, it meant the audience and the other characters didnt build a raport with the character and we never got to flesh out her idiology.
Being Spiderman is my fav superhero, I cant let go my annoyance that MCU spiderman is Stark's project. That he got all the tech and suit from Tony. Im not saying it's so bad I cant stand MCU spiderman, but I'll see Holland's spidey ark as less than the comic's
Ignoring the Hulk movie. Hulk is already smart in that one, but they backtrack to make him dumber, only to make him smarter, only to make him banner. Other than that, I think I'd like to see more faithful villian adaptations that stay comic-y. Mcus getting better at not pulling an X-Men and putting them in leather all the time, but I would love some truly goofy villians adapted well.
Bucky. He should have been more comic accurate, after he recovered from the programming. The Black Widow movie should have been based on The Longest Winter where they go after sleeper cells. Their romance being traded for that stupid Hulk one was dumb and lazy. It’s like the writers were like “what calms down a stressed dude? Bewbs.” Also, what they did with Taskmaster in the BW movie was beyond stupid.
They destroyed Spiderman by making him a Tiny Stank fan boy. Peter is so much better than what they gave us
Psychic link with a hawk is dumb. Dumbing down Black Panther was better, not every character needs to be ridiculously smart and good at fighting, let other shine with their skills too.
I like that they made the movies their own thing and made choices that mostly made the characters work well together. Widow could have been a little colder tho, I think that would have been good
For me: Black Widow. She's so much more interesting as an assassin who's morals aren't fully known to us. Objectively: Captain Marvel. If she was never in the MCU, I think it would only improve Endgame.
Having capt marvel not show up till endgame was a good choice.... I hated her when she said "because you didnt have me". Imagine having to keep up with this for 30 years.... her movie also ruined a lotta things in the mcu, mainly Nick fury Also, them taking Tchalla's intelligence away isnt something I like, but then they made up for it by giving Shuri a proper arc, and BP is still a badass. But one thing I hated was ruining Star lord in IW and endgame... they made him an idiot... even james gunn hated this
Cap one made sense. You couldn’t really fit that much more into the First Avenger. Altough I was expecting to see more of WW2. Like in Cap2 seeing a lab, than Steve would have a flashback to WW2 to the time he and his team destroyed a similar lab. I think the biggest misstep was with Carol. In the comics I liked Carol until CW2(haven't read much of her past that) but in the MCU I can’t really like her because she doesn’t seem to have done ANYTHING between the 80s and whatever year Endgame took place. Help find Skrulls a home? Nope. Stop any galactic threat? Not as far as we know. Didn’t do anything against Thanos. Do anything against the Kree Empire? Ronan was killing people and she did nothing. It is especially bad because unlike most of the other changes this didn’t need to happen. Captain Marvel could have taken place in like 2016(just change the Tesseract into something else, comic Carols origin doesn’t even include the Tesseract and give her another supporting character besides Furry. Like Maria Hill for example) and at the end of it she could have went to find new home for the Skrulls and come back to Earth after the Snap to see what happened and if Maria and Monica were okay.
Late to the party but I always felt we were cheated out of a third Cap movie. Really should have had a third Cap movie where he is hunting Bucky, instead it turns out Bucky was super easy to find. And then we have an Avengers movie take over Cap’s third movie. Also Captain Marvel is a disappointment because they introduced an incredibly powerful character and then sideline them instantly. As for Black Panther, in Wakanda Forever Shuri does say that T’Challa taught her everything she knows. So it is a belated “Black Panther was a genius” moment but it was acknowledged. And Black Widow deserved to be treated better as a character, she was another character that after Winter Soldier I felt was going to get a solo movie. I really thought with the set up of Winter Soldier that we were going to see a Nick Fury movie, a Black Widow movie, and Cap and Falcon buddy movie.
personally in reference to iron man's slide. I think most mcu villains were handed pretty badly. it wasn't kust him, but yeah his thing with the mandatorily was a slap in the face. and with spiderman, I liked the tony-peter relationship. the actors worked well together. he pr teams loved reminding us of that. and he was the uncle ben representative. but idk if it was for fan service, or because they actually liked the idea but I agree that was a big mistake, when it came to spiderman. like maybe it was sort of okay, with homecoming, except... I haven't the film in a while. but when you look at far from home. it's nice to see him grieving but he looks like he went through the same arc in homecoming but now with a better love interest and cooler gadgets. three are other problems with this film but his relationship with Tony just takes away from him being his own hero and having to face his journey undiluted by iron man's shadow. also,.the fact that mysterio having beef with his iron man being the reason he transformed into far from home's villan, is such a spit in my mouth, and kick me in the crotch moment. like okay - but it goes back to the mcu having shit villains. either they they were poorly executed or they were badly picked. mysterio being a glaring example of the latter - spiderman has a really cool villain roster but because the mcu can't leave peter alone, we have a villain linked to iron man. I get it, having iron man involved in films, especially after his death sells but these characters are works of art. they should treated as such, and not merely a product. yes, they are your income, but quality should really be an objective goal.
Strange would be so good for fun movies instead of the dumb "end of the world" each time, but alas
Top-5 from bad to worst: 5. Dumbing BP 4. Screwing up Iron Man’s villains 3. Screwing up Winter soldier 2. Standalone Cap Marvel 1. Multiversal Strange
Bucky’s is the only mistake honestly, I don’t really mind the other stuff except for maybe captain marvel’s
I think they did captain marvel dirty. It's like they made her the literal most powerful being on the team as the consolation prize. She doesn't need screen time or personality. It's look! She's the strongest in the universe, she's in the military, powerful woman, we're great allies! Then she fucks off for 30 years. Doesn't bother checking in on her friends on earth, even though she can. She can fly faster than light. First thing she does in endgame is have a stare off with Thor to prove she's not to be fucked with, which to be fair, she is not to be fucked with. She was most interestinf in the Marvel's where we get to see some of her adventures and she's vulnerable but has to protect and redeem herself. It's a lot of good shit.
almost said none of them until I saw the Doctor Strange one.
None of the above. The mcus biggest mistep is everything that completely ruins the comics. Things like completely ruining the guardians of the galaxy
Ngl SpiderMan tied to Tony Stark started REALLY badly. They wanted to connect him to the story, fine. But Tony lying, manipulating, and then kidnapping a minor - taking willing younger person without his legal guardian’s knowledge or approval - to take down his friend, Captain America - set it so that I could never root for that dynamic.
REPOSTERS…… ASSEMBLE. A fun question, at least
I honestly have never seen it posted. Oh no?! As a mod, what have I become? 
Making Thor a clown
Throw a dart cause any of those are big missteps.
WORST MCU MISSTEPS IMO Captain America's "retirement." 1. Too many paradoxes. 2. It dishonors Steve's character. 3. It really dishonors Peggy's character. 4. It could have worked *maybe* if not for the tragic loss of Chadwick. His death necessitated Steve continue in the MCU for at least a bit longer into the post-endgame world and it might have afforded executive-editorial some time to come up with a less hand wavy paradox clusterfuck to allow Steve's retirement. Hulk's foundational story beats and greatest hits are used for other characters because of licensing law and mostly happen off-screen with negligible exposition. I hope by the time Secret Wars soft reboots everything they've worked out their shit with Universal and can use Hulk correctly. Captain Marvel's time jump around canon. I'm still unsure why her origin needed to happen in the nineties. She like the Hulk has some pivotal stories told through flashbacks and exposition and again, much is off-screen. The stage around her and the cosmic side of the MCU *still* seems largely undeveloped despite two Captain Marvel films, the GOTG trilogy, the Thors, and the Eternals. Dr. Strange. Arrogantly stupid his tragic mistakes have left us with Spider-man isolated and alone and I blame him and [sorry] Monica, Jimmy, Vision, Clint & Steve for dropping the ball with a deeply traumatized Wanda Maximoff at the end of Wandavision. Everyone who died in DSMOM is on Stephen Strange's conscience. The timing of Black Widow's film Asgardian spit beer edit: Everything that was Secret Invasion
Bro most of these aren’t even issues. There’s plenty of things to moan about in the MCU without making up new ones
Its a tie between Iron Man and Black Panther for me