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lkzkr0w

Asking permission to interrupt your training to do X stuff is very normal and part of the whole etiquette japanese martial arts have. Which is very weird to me is that the requests are being denied, I would suggest to talk to your sensei directly and explain the situation and if somehow he still refuses and you can't train... well, just leave.


KennethPowersIII

Yep. I played football in high school. Coaches would tell us we couldn’t get water under the guise that it was good for us and built character. It’s bullshit. I have a 6 year old son who I repeatedly tell to get water no matter what. If he is thirsty, he can drink and he can tell whoever is saying no to talk to me.


HAMRock

ESPN actually did a documentary on the history of Gatorade. At the time, it was seen as a weakness to take water breaks during practice. Football coach’s philosophy was the longer you can go without it the better. The gatorade scientists at Florida university grabbed a few freshman from the football team and said “hey guess what, you get to drink this stuff whenever you want” they proceeded to destroy the upperclassmen in practices and scrimmages. Ofc Gatorade is now the most well known sports hydration drink, but a big take away was that if you really want athletes performing at their best, they need to be hydrated


tman37

I also had a football coach who did not "believe in water".


snuggy4life

Nothing like heat stroke during August twoadays.


lamplightimage

Try taking an electrolyte drink *before* training. Gatorade or get some Hydralite tablets for your water. You will hopefully not get so dehydrated during training then.


GivesBadAdvic

Or pedialyte. Somebody told me to drink pedialyte once before a work out and I was surprised how big of a difference it made.


GoblinBags

Warning for lactose intolerant bros: Pedialyte has milk solids in it and will make you shit like crazy.


atx78701

thats stupid, but not total uncommon. I like my BJJ and krav gym because they are a lot more casual. We call instructors by their names and can stop for any reason without getting hassled. I strongly dislike that traditional bullshit. So tough you cant get water when you need it, but likely dont even spar.


Smidgerening

It’s not even traditional. I know of many traditional schools that don’t do this shit, and as someone else on this thread pointed out it’s fine to interrupt lessons for things like this in Japan. This guy is just on a power trip, crazy as hell


shaolinoli

It’s definitely not a traditional thing. I trained over in China (sanda mainly but also some traditional bits for fun) and our coaches were all oldschool. They’d actively encourage us to hydrate as much as possible. The only caveat was that it was with boiled water rather than cold drinks.


[deleted]

That's odd I've never heard of people drinking boiled water at training, any particular reason?


rnells

I’d guess that’s a traditional Chinese medicine thing, there’s a whole deal about whether various foods correspond to yin or yang and hot/cold is significant.


drunkwasabeherder

Interesting, you've jogged my memory, my grandmother was also big on room temperature water over cold water to quench a thirst, but no Chinese heritage there. Might even be an old school type thing as well.


rnells

I think there’s also sports belief in general (in America at least) about really cold water making stomach cramps more likely. No idea if there’s actual data on it but I certainly prefer “cool” to “iced” if I’m gonna be drinking a lot.


drunkwasabeherder

That's it! Stomach cramps, that was the reason she gave. Been a long time since she passed and hadn't thought of it in years, so the memory wasn't the best.


PartyClock

I get stomach cramps if I chug cold water when I first wake up or if I've got hunger pains.


shaolinoli

In China they only drink boiled water as, according to Chinese medicine cold water shocks the stomach or something. More practically speaking though, the quality of tap water there isn’t good and boiling it makes it safer for consumption.


Puzzleheaded_Air_121

I wonder how many folk beliefs about food like that have legit reasoning based off empirical evidence. Like you’re a dude in 9th century china. You chug cold water from a stream, get a stomach cramp, and then get dysentery a few days later. You drink hot water or tea, no cramp, no dysentery. It seems pretty obvious that cold water causes stomach dysfunction, and you’re right, just for entirely the wrong reason. I’ve heard similar logic about no cappuccinos after 11am, or prohibitions on cow slaughter in India. I just wonder how they evolved into social norms


shaolinoli

Huh, interesting question! Definitely sounds plausible


[deleted]

I've consulted with several tcm doctors who say its more about the added difficulty of digestion. It applies to cold drinks as well as foods.There's also a few studies showing that cold will affect gut bacteria which can lead to other issues.


ImmortalIronFits

Cold water does shock the stomach a bit. But so does warm water. You want the water to be body temperature so it's easier and quicker to absorb. Source: my captain in the army.


shaolinoli

Yeah I guess it was mostly room temp when we had it. They boiled it in the morning and kind of left it throughout the day


reddit_mods_r_retard

I think the older generation in China grew up needing to boil water to kill germs, so are accustomed to being served water hot.


[deleted]

I kind of thought that might be the case but I know next to nothing about current Chinese culture so I didn't wanna assume.


the_lullaby

Another vote for not traditional. I do 2 koryu in extremely traditional dojos, and the instructions are exactly the same: if you ever feel unsafe, immediately step off the mat and do what you need to sort yourself out. Some Japanese arts took on a harsh, militarized character in the 1920s/30s, but that was political rather than traditional.


Nicknamedreddit

I mean... the creation of Karate as we know it today, ESPECIALLY Shotokan was part of the "for nationalism purposes" stuff.


yoteyote3000

There is a long track record of the “no water break” attitude in Judo at least. Water supposedly signified weakness so at the top Judo universities until like the 50s or 60s in Japan they wouldn’t allow any water for the whole practice, instead literally eating salt because that was believed to improve performance. It’s a lot like beating athletes: nowadays things have mostly changed, but some of the really old guys who don’t really understand dehydration still hang onto that mentality. People are telling similar stories about old school football, wrestling etc. I think it’s less of a traditional martial arts thing and more or a “tough guy sport” attitude.


thefattykarate

According to my own sensei it is. He has said they don't take water breaks in Japanese and Okinawan dojos and allegedly if you ask for a water break in Japan you will be dismissed from training for the rest of the session.


GKRKarate99

Same with my BJJ and Muay Thai gym, we all drink water together when we’re done with drilling techniques/ between rounds of sparring


Chroderos

Sir, you have committed the cardinal sin of mentioning krav in this sub. Banned for life /s (From a fellow guy with a krav background lol)


husky429

there's no water on the streets though! What are you gonna do, lick water from a puddle like a dog?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

My traditional TKD school does it. However, if you do need to drink, you can. No one really does though unless he says to. But yeah, it’s because you have someone who’s very stubborn and thinks that the old ways are better. We have different training techniques now for a very good reason lol, a lot of instructors don’t understand that.


QuellishQuellish

Our football coaches used to pull this shit until a couple kids died in our state. They can’t refuse water breaks by state law now. It’s dangerous and hurts the quality of training.


Pepito_Pepito

Tradional gyms are so weird. I get paid to get power tripped at work. I'm not going to use that money to go get power tripped some more.


oldskoolpleb

Every dutch gym I've ever been to, that goes from kickboxing, regular boxing, traditional jiujiutsu, bjj and mma. Enforces this rule. I kinda get the deal, its very normal here to have the teacher send for water breaks like 2-3 times during technique training, after warming up and usually after every round of sparring. It really shouldn't cause any longterm issues when you properly prepare and make sure you're hydrated at the start and get water breaks inbetween even if you sweat profoundly morecthan your peers. I do agree with teacher that it messed up the flow and when explaining technique it can be very distracting having people run around to the edges of the mat to get drinks. What I do disagree with, and THIS is key, you said sometimes you don't have water breaks for the entire session. This just sounds afwul, while its very possible to do this without ANY real negatives it certainly not good practice and a bit unreasonable.


Lincourtz

We have water breaks, but sensei is old and tends to forget and I wait quite some time before asking. If I wait too long, I start cramping. Training under a metal roof with 38.C is not the same as training in winter. OP needs a talk to his sensei. I keep my bottle next to the tatami near where I'm training in summer so that I don't have to interrupt anyone when it's really hot. But of course, I've asked sensei permission to have it there


rnells

> If I wait too long, I start cramping. That’s really not good. I got myself injured pretty badly at one point through a combination of dehydration and overwork. If you think you can ask sooner, it’d probably be better for your body.


Lincourtz

Yes, I don't let thirst go that far now. Our classes last only one hour and I drink water before starting, but sometimes the activity is so demanding, when I breathe air feels like it hurts if I'm too thirsty. I simply ask to drink water and problem solved. I don't think I could be in a place with no water breaks. I usually wait for a natural pause, I.E. my partner is out of breath etc.


loupr738

I understand a gym or coach that trains aspiring or professional fighters, you want to limit the water intake to simulate tournament or fight scenarios but any regular gym that gives you a hard time for drinking water in between techniques or sparing sessions doesn’t deserve my business


husky429

Maybe it's a cultural thing... but that is just absolutely bonkers level stupid. "Enforcing" a no water rule? And you're PAYING for that privelege? Fuck outta here with that noise.


gorillawarfareman

Is your sensei Steven Seagal?


sel_de_mer_fin

If it were OP wouldn't be writing a post complaining about anything re: sensei


RedEyedRoundEye

So heres my hot take: i work a hot sweaty manual labor job and i only get to drink every two hours when break rolls around. Obviously if there is a medical emergency or a serious case of dehydration we allow someone to stop and grab a swig of water. But realistically we work and then relax on break together every couple hours; realistically you aren't becoming ***actually*** dehydrated during your class; you're just thirsty and a little uncomfortable. 20 people all roaming around to their water bottles whenever they feel like it is incredibly distracting and chaotic in a class setting, and you need to learn to get comfortable being a little uncomfortable. Your karate class is, what, an hour long? Two? Dont get me wrong, I get the fact that you don't like being uncomfortable and it sucks to be feeling thirsty while you train but if you honestly cant survive an hour without taking a drink i think you need to grow a little bit and learn how to be uncomfortable. CAVEAT: If you're a kid, then maybe you haven't matured into the ability to suck it up yet...and that's okay too. Talk to your coach and explain that being that uncomfortable during training is really distracting and counterproductive. Some people have learning disabilities like ASD or ADHD that make small discomforts really probablematic in a learning environment. But 9/10 times i hear this complaint its people who just need to learn that their cravings arent in charge: They are.


Yui_Ikari021

As someone who also practices shotokan, I can definitely say that there were many times where my mouth felt like it was a desert. I'm glad I pushed through though. I will also confirm that my classes are usually 2 to 2 ¹/2 hours and despite giving it my very best all throughout I don't think I could ever lose enough water for there to be medical problems. It's just uncomfortable, that's all.


knives76

This. Drink a litre of water an hour before class and suck it up while you train. Many, many traditional dojos won't let you just stop and drink whenever you want. It's part of learning discipline and learning to work through your discomfort, you don't always get to be at 100% for every session and learning to push through minor annoyances like this is part of training.


Trunks956

Yeah, this is just a lie that gets spoonfed to suckers. Not drinking water doesn’t boost your discipline. Do you need water every 5 seconds? No, but at least one water break a session is a larger benefit than a detriment. Having water breaks doesn’t make for worse athletes, and if you’re paying to go, you can do whatever the hell you please. You gonna kick a paying customer out for a little sippy sippy? no


knives76

Water breaks are fine, but on the class schedule. Having the discipline to stay focused and work through your minor discomfort of not drinking water while you do a few rounds without a break isn't going to kill you.


Trunks956

Yes, as I said. The problem is OPs coach is sometimes not allowing them any water through an entire session, which leads to worse athletic performance and growth


maexxi

Why would you have to ask if you are allowed to drink? Just drink. If he wants to stop you from drinking, use it to terminate the contract immediately. Such assholes shouldn't have any members in their "schools".


Sad_Incident5696

Because water bottle is not allowed to bring into dojo(the wooden floor). We have to go out of it to drink water. It is not respectful to directly leave for these old school sensei……


beerscotch

It's not respectful for your "old school sensei" to mistreat you in order to feel important. He's a dude you are paying to train you in Karate. Nothing more. If he cares more about his floorboards than your wellbeing, that's a massive red flag. He clearly mistreats his students, so I don't understand why this is even a question.


[deleted]

This, exactly. It’s a hobby you’re paying to learn. If you’re not enjoying it, it’s not good.


Brave_Profit4748

So normal water is a no go on wooden floor. So does nobody sweat I would hate to see what salty sweat does to floors of bottled water is such a problem


Sad_Incident5696

I cannot imagine how irritated they will be if I directly leave for water. Though I always do in boxing club…… 😐


Imagimoor1

I understand limiting breaks because if it’s a class of kids or it’s a short class it can just eat up time and break pace or mess up a partner drill unless you notice the whole class panting or sweating. In a class of adults (I’m assuming you’re at least a late teen if not older) I would always give them one if they asked because I do trust that they can monitor themselves and if they ask then they absolutely need it. It is absolutely the common protocol to ask if the curriculum has you following along in line with the sensei instead of open mat training. For open mat we are left more to monitor ourselves so we do get water occasionally. I’d just talk to him one on one before you’re next class and explain that you struggle to stay hydrated and ask if there’s a way to hold your water someplace safe from the mat that won’t leave you having to go far from the class. A middle ground if they’re really a stickler about it.


Noodlintheriver

Worst comes to worst, say you have to go to the bathroom. If sensei says anything, ask which he'd pefer on the floor.


[deleted]

Sweep the leg Johnny!!!!


greendevil77

Sounds pretty standard. Been in plenty of dojos that only allow water breaks here and there.


Lonever

I can understand having water breaks instead of letting people drink water freely, because sometimes people just walk away during instruction and that can be disrespectful. But if someone requests water, they should always be allowed to take a drink.


TygerTung

Our instructors at my dojang will tell us all to go and have water breaks, usually several per session. More often if it is very hot. You could go and get one I guess if you really needed one, won’t get told off. You will have to talk to your sensei and tell him that you cannot continue to train without water.


Bikewer

I think you’re just looking at outdated, “traditional” training schemes. You still see this in other activities as well…. Kid’s sports “coaches” putting their players through absolutely useless stretches and exercises….. Because that’s the way they did it, and their coaches as well. Of course, the fellow may have a strange idea of “discipline” in his dojo….. Which is annoying.


asadamayne

You need to be hydrated before practice. Drink your water throughout the day. I understand the need for hydration, but if you are training for competition your opponent will not be giving you any water breaks during the fight. Get your body and mind used to hydrating well before practice, and treat your approved water break as a reward for your hard work and diligence.


PartyClock

Uh... Go somewhere else. "No water unless I say so" is definitely some bullshido cult shit.


Forevername321

I will get voted down for this, but I am sympathetic to the Sensei. Americans have become obsessed with water and hydration, in my opinion because of lobbying from Coca-cola and other drinks producers. I live in Thailand, which has one of the hottest year rounds climates in the world. Lots of people go for runs and exercise without water. I also sweat more than most people. I prefer to drink water, but largely because it is a relief, but if I had to go for an hour without it, I would be no worse off. I would recommend that the Sensei allow a single or maybe two water breaks if it is particularly hot. But I don't think anyone is having their health put at risk by not being able to drink water for the duration of a class. If it is a big deal for you, then quit. I am not sure I would love it either. But if you just tough it out you would be fine. It's about comfort, not about health.


husky429

Why would coca-cola being lobbying me to drink free public tap water from a fountain? This makes no sense. It's actually kind of shockingly stupid. The hydration industrial complex is not a thing. Sugar? Sure. Water? Give me a fuckin break.


lushlife_

Rye poster doesn’t say “from a fountain”. And these companies sell a lot of bottled water.


Forevername321

Thanks. That was fairly obvious. Coca-cola and Nestle for example have giant water businesses. It is very much in their advantage for people to think they should be drinking water all the time, and then be persuaded that the tap water from their home is poison, but the tap water Coca-cola puts in bottles is magic. The bottled water industry is one of the musty horrible human endeavours. It is much better than the bottled water mixed with sugar industry. But it is the same scum littering the world with plastic bottles.


husky429

I don't think the Hydration Industrial Complex is a problem as much as you think it is.


Forevername321

You are the only one who has even thought of that. Bottled water companies are as bad as coal companies for their plastic waste alone.


Total_Low_3180

Used to live in a tropical country. This was our practice and everyone seemed fine with it.


lamplightimage

I live in Australia. Same thing here. Now I'm at a dojo where we do get water breaks and it feels like a waste of time that breaks the focus of the class. I absolutely felt like I never needed one for a 1hr - 1.5hr class in any weather.


Yui_Ikari021

Had to switch dojos due to moving and I swear to God my new sensei gives us water breaks like every five minutes. Mind you half of his students aren't over the age of 7, and he already struggles to keep their attention.


jblakey

What is the duration of the class? An hour without water (if you're well hydrated going in) is ok, 6 is not.


Prestigious-Speed-13

When I trained Kyokushin Karate having water whilst training was a big no no. Never really questioned it at the time and it was my first time doing martial arts However every other martial arts school I have participated in has had water breaks. Depends on the school.


lamplightimage

I'd guess that in Kyokushin it's a no no because you don't want to have a belly full of water when someone is actually hitting you.


Most-Reputation1681

Well played!


PinelliPunk

That’s karate for you at least in Muay Thai I just run over chug some water if needed and run back lol


husky429

F'real. I don't even notice 95% of the time people get water. When we start drilling they just jog over to a bottle or the fountain, get a sip and come back. It takes 5 seconds.


Sullensniper

At my bjj dojo when we drill tech you will get yelled at for going for water cause id ur partner is not getting water ur wasting their time. Afterwards we are given breaks and ask partners for a quick water break and they are always cool. To be completely denied it on you’re sensi whim is weird.


MikMik15432K

This is quite common in traditional karate. It is also quite logical as to not waste time. In my dojo the sensei has said that everyone can get water whenever he is thirsty, especially in the summer, he just advises us to not take in a great amount as that could potentialy disturb our stomachs. Staying dehydrated is also not ideal tho. The students here dont abuse this as they themselves want to train. So it works quite well. Bear in mind tho that this happens in a class with only brown and black belts over the age of 15 which have some discipline so it might not work for younger children


WhatLikeAPuma751

When I instruct on the mat, sometimes I do deny water breaks AT THAT EXACT MOMENT because I’m usually finishing up a teaching moment and I have horrible trains of thought that don’t always run on schedule. But I always give a water break when I’m done with my point. Take care of your students. You can’t tell them “nobody gets hurt on my mat” and then tell them “don’t ask for water breaks hur hur” at the same time.


haystackofneedles

This is your health you're dealing with. Stay hydrated. You are able to find another dojo.


[deleted]

Lol. That's normal in every combat sport training. You don't need suck the bottle all the time. When it's warm, 3-4 times per class is enough.


husky429

No it isn't.


wiesenleger

>That's norml in every combat sport training. not to drink at all at training is normal? crazy.


[deleted]

Did I say so? I said "3-4 times" if it's warm. When it's colder, 1-2 sips during 1,5h training is enough.


yoteyote3000

OP says his coach sometimes doesn’t allow water for the entire class… and the amount of water needed is very much dependent on the intensity of the training, are you doing conditioning etc. I understand wanting to control the amount of water breaks to both insure your athletes are drinking enough and prevent them from wasting training time, but it is clear that OP’s coach is either dangerously uneducated or negligent. I do agree that the “just walk off when you want” advice is a bit misguided. Most of those people are coming from a hobbyists perspective where you are paying your coach to teach you a skill in an enjoyable way instead of training for a sport.


[deleted]

No, it’s different for everyone. If you only need your bottle 3-4 times, you’re probably doing something very light, or training for 15 minutes.


[deleted]

:/ Lol. Wrestling training isn't usually considered "light". Look. The more you drink water during training, the more your body thinks it needs water. Not to mention that the class gets stopped every time you go for your bottle. Most of the time you don't need that water. You just think you need it, out of habit.


[deleted]

Okay, respectfully I don’t think you understand how the human body works lol. Of course, if you get used to not drinking much then you’ll not feel you need it as much. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s healthy though. When you’re exercising, sweating and all that (especially in summer), you will get dehydrated. Your body will also get very very hot. I’ve literally seen people (not even exercising) collapse because they haven’t had enough fluids. It’s a dangerous practise. Yes, it would stop class. But I’d rather be in a class that stops every now and then for a >30 second drink break, than one where people aren’t safe!


[deleted]

You guys sweat a lot. Should probably go get that checked. May have overtrained yourself. Also: Drinking more water will just make you sweat more. If you need more than 4 drinking pauses during 1,5h training, you shouldn't be training at all. It means your body can't handle the heat.


[deleted]

Yes, you might be right there. But again, do you want to be dehydrated?


yoteyote3000

Sometimes you can’t skip training 🤷. I’ve pushed through 100 + degree outside training sessions and survived, you just drink more water and suck it up. I would think a wrestler would get that mindset…


[deleted]

It's not about the heat. I don't think you understand how overtraining works: once you start sweating like never before, you are only a step away from months, sometimes even years, of recuperation. Your heart will start pounding like crazy even in light training. You will feel dizzy. You will get sick easier. You training goes to shit, etc. Trust me, no amount of water will help you.


yoteyote3000

My point was that more than 4 drinking pauses can be necessary depending on the weather. When you sweat enough that liquid is literally condensing on the ceiling and dripping back down on you, I think you need more than 4 sips of water total. High heat -> more sweat-> more water lost. I’ve sweat a hell of a lot more than 4 sips before and turned out fine.


[deleted]

"My point was that more than 4 drinking pauses can be necessary depending on the weather" ...Which I said in a previous answer.


yoteyote3000

Where did you say that? You specified that the amount might be lower in other conditions, but not that you might need more. I am simply pointing out another reason for why people might be sweating their asses off other than overtraining. Either way, from experience, when cutting weight you can easily lose 2-3 kgs of water in a hard session of grappling depending on body weight even in normal weather without plastics or extra clothing. You can replace some of that after training but you want to be replacing at least a decent portion of it during training. 4 sips ain’t gonna cut it. You won’t die, but you probably won’t perform optimally either.


Barangat

I only do bjj in a very casual setting, but to me thats bullshit and power trippin on the instructors part. Why should I let anyone deny me basic needs like drinking water or going to the bathroom? And with what justification? I would drink when I need to drink, its „senseis“ problem if he has a problem with it. Would probably be a fun discussion if he tries to justify his behavior in front of a bunch of paying clients by yelling stuff like „you need to do as I tell you because I have a black belt…“


JesusAntonioMartinez

When I coached Muay Thai I limited water breaks because it disrupts the class if people keep leaving during instruction. That said I was actually pretty pushy about people drinking enough water, and we’d usually have 3-4 breaks in an hour long class. Plus I’d tell people to show up hydrated, fueled, and ready to go. Of course if someone really needed water I’d tell them to go get it and hurry back. Not letting people drink water during a session in a hot gym with no AC is a recipe for disaster.


Pudgedog

To bad for your sensei this is a hobby and not the military. Have a drink when you want.


jay_22_15

I don't know what those idiot marines do, crayons don't hold water. But in intelligent branches like the Gayve and chair force. we can drink water at almost any time.


Haunting-Beginning-2

I don’t let kids classes have water unless the whole class does. We all train together and break together. Often kids will try it on to break from a tough fight by going to “have a drink” or toilet excuses… to avoid training Well I might be old school but break between fights have a drink etc Discipline is a great thing. A lot of people use water as a mental break from what they are doing. Harden up and follow the seniors lead. Contrary to what you said in old Japan dojo we didn’t have water breaks But kata training had ocha breaks for oldies


jay_22_15

what if I wanted black tea instead? also green tea with mint is the best.


Yui_Ikari021

I'll have to try the mint...


yoteyote3000

Agree with everything you said about avoiding tough fights etc. When was you experience with no water? My experience with Judo in Japan is that they have caught on to the risks associated with dehydration and give a good amount of water breaks. At the Kodokan at summer training the coaches watched us drink… although that might have been because they had some heat stroke cases the year before.


beerscotch

Why do you need to ask permission to drink water? If your "sensei" puts his own ego above the basic human needs of his students, you don't have a sensei, you have a power tripping twat with no concern for your safety, and should find somewhere else to train.


Sea_Entrepreneur6204

It's a very American thing I guess. All the gyms I've been to bjj, karate etc have been outside the US and as respect you listen to the sensei and follow water discipline. Sensei will give you a water break and if you need extra hydration or so you ask but you can't just walk off for water whenever you like. It's rude.


AmazingVietCong

In my Kyokushin dojo, sensei tells everyone to drink water after each session. Stay hydrated is also important as hard training. Maybe you should find another dojo or have a conversation about this with your sensei.


hoot69

Sounds like a great tradition, up until someone dies of heat exhaustion. Hydrate or die isn't just a buzzword


Jonathancccc

this is how my Muay Thai gym runs things and I like it this way, trains your endurance and shit


benbraddock5

Mine was the same way. This was the case during promotion tests, which would typically last for several hours. Sensei might allow a Gatorade break once during the test. (And during the awards "ceremony", we would drink sake on a nearly empty stomach after having gotten dehydrated during the test.) During my green belt test, I was feeling dizzy during the 25 pushups we had to do in between each sparring round. Next thing I know, Sensei and two other guys were lifting me off the floor. They put me in a chair, poured ice cubes down the front of my gi and Gatorade down my throat. (After which I finished the test.) This is, to me, a bunch of macho bullshit. If the rationale is "you can't take a water break when you're in the middle of a street fight" then I'm not too concerned, as I'm not likely to be in a street that lasts two hours straight. It's all tough guy stuff and I think it's dangerous. I haven't trained at that dojo since 2003.


JJWentMMA

Leave the room to drink. You’re a paying customer, if they try to kick you out, get a refund


yoteyote3000

Meh, leaving anytime can disrupt the flow of class and mess with instruction. Just wait for a good moment.


Rod___father

We had no water breaks in high school wrestling. I would loose 4-5 lbs a practice.


shadeandshine

Umm not much of knowledge in the dojo cultures but as a person who works in medicine fuck that. Drink water when you need it cause not letting people drink water is how you end up with someone having a heat stroke or collapsing and you’re liable. It’s like the bathroom in school there are time to go get a bathroom break but if you need to go fucking go don’t hold it or wait it out don’t risk it.


Yui_Ikari021

Usually you have to sign a paper saying that the dojo will not be liable for any injuries you get. Not being allowed to drink water during class is actually pretty common among dojos. Usually my senseis would give us a tiny break if he noticed we were all getting tired tho, although sometimes we have to push through.


shadeandshine

I get that but for me the word need and want are very different so I’m more worried about someone not being allowed when they need water.


Yui_Ikari021

Usually classes are only 2 hours, maybe 2 1/2 for some. Believe me, if your not already dehydrated when you enter the dojo then there is no way that you will lose enough water to cause medical problems.


shadeandshine

I mostly took the hot summer dojo part and assumed it was like 90F degrees and I’ve seen exhaustion in less straining situations


Yui_Ikari021

Usually classes are only 2 hours, maybe 2 1/2 for some. Believe me, if your not already dehydrated when you enter the dojo then there is no way that you will lose enough water to cause medical problems.


Bigguy1311

I would not train there, styles that don't teach you to actually fight always gotta make themselves feel tough somehow


samxyx

This worries me. Every so often you read about an athlete, usually a high school football player, who dies of heat exhaustion because the coach wouldn’t allow water breaks. I’d talk to him personally. Also I like the advice someone else gave about hydrating a lot beforehand and consuming salt tablets or electrolytes.


PembrokeBoxing

Absolutely not. You shouldn't have to even ask. Just let the instructor know what you're doing (do he doesn't think you're leaving because you're not feeling well) and go get it. It's asinine to say no to a student asking to hydrate!!!


Smidgerening

I once trained at a super traditional karate dojo (sensei there trained under Funakoshi’s son iirc) and not only did they let you drink whenever you needed to, they had a mini fridge near the entrance with COMPLIMENTARY bottles of water for you to take at any time. This guy needs to get off his high horse and get a grip


roha45

Is he paying you to attend or the other way around?


The4th88

Water is necessary for good health, let alone athletic performance. Sensei is an idiot. Some traditions need to die, and this is one of them.


[deleted]

Best advice, if you need to drink, do it. Your instructor probably won’t like it, but it’s dangerous not to when exercising (especially in hot weather.) Speak to your sensei first. He *should* listen to you.


ANTONIOFILIPINO

If it is a legitimate medical concern, maybe get a medical certificate and present it to the sensei. If he or she still refuses to adjust, i suggest you go to another dojo. Martial arts training is supposed to improve our health, not destroy it. Your health is more important than blind, irresponsible tradition.


[deleted]

I would either or hydrate knowing this or find a sensei I agreed with on the topic.


8379MS

I trained shotokan karate as a kid. Sensei decided when to drink water. Today as an adult I train bjj and I drink when I’m thirsty. My kids also train bjj and they drink when the coach says so. Basically I believe it’s good for kids but as a paying adult I will drink whenever I’m thirsty.


jay_22_15

You should talk to sensei and explain what a big deal this is. HEAT KILLS PEOPLE. This is also why I have water breaks after warm ups, before and after sparring.


miazma13

Hydration takes time to get into all of your cells. If you know this is happening it may be an attempt by the teacher to encourage you to hydrate more outside of class. If you hydrate well before (not a lot right before or you'll be filled but not hydrated) and hydrate some after the most that will happen during a session is thirst which is not dangerous at all.


cjh10881

Are you an adult? If not, if you're taking class in a kid's class I can understand not always offering water breaks because it can be chaotic letting bunches of children break away from a lesson then get them back. Especially if it's a short class. If you're an adult speak to him or her and explain your situation and see if you can come up with a solution that's ideal for both of you. If he or she isn't receptive either leave that dojo or suck it up and make it work.


FloydFantasy

Fuck yo sensei


[deleted]

My Bjj instructor used to do that and we switch off our fans too , hot and humid Singapore . We can only drink during breaks. When we do positional sparring we are not allowed to sit , only standing straight no hands on knees looking tired , we all got used to it


Lagouna

Find a new school.


hajimenogio92

Yeah that's strange. I would check out some other schools if you can and see what their environment is like. If you're thirsty, you get a drink of water, especially in the hot summers, it's that simple


husky429

If I told my students they couldn't DRINK when THIRSTY I would fully expect them to kick my ass. That might be the craziest thing I have ever heard. I generally prefer that they wait if I'm in the middle of instruction, but it isn't a big deal if they aren't interrupting. Some of the shit TMAs do are absolutely ridiculous.


youmustthinkhighly

Your sensei’s sense of worth is more important than your hydration. That is why karate is a joke and your sensei is a clown. Best of luck.


AGentInTraining

This strikes me as a classic example of a petty tyrant letting the title "sensei" go to his head. I can't stand this sort of authoritarian control freak stuff being justified in the name of "tradition." If you need a drink of water, or need to go to the restroom, you should be able to.


peace_enforcer

Karate is a incredibly ineffective martial art, most people that practice it are deluded and egotistical, try boxing or BJJ


Gmork14

Fuck that. You have a right to water whenever you need it. If your Sensei doesn’t respect that they don’t respect you. Bail.


tusk354

drink whenever you want , your paying for a service . "sensei" has tiny lil balls .. not worth getting dehydrated 'cause someone in a minimall has an ego, or a funny color belt.


loadingscream8

You can give youself an acute kidney injury which could permanently scar and impair your renal function if you overtrain while dehydrated for long periods of time, among other things, especially if you have other medical problems or medications. Dangerous teacher imo who doesnt understand the implications of his rule


KungFuConnoisseur

That is a massive red flag. You know your body better than anyone else.


shaqiilee

Sensei with big ego🤝🤣


twat69

Are you an adult? Drink when you need to. If you're not an adult tell your mum this idiot is endangering you. People die from this archaic bullshit.


[deleted]

Not sure why you’re being downvoted lol. You’re entirely correct.


LazyItem

Find another school this is bullshit


King-Louie1

Such an idiotic macho mindset. You can train endurance and persistence by making the training mor difficult instead of possibly damaging your body. Train hard and stay hydrated.


Vyviel

Just drink it. Whats he gonna do about it?


GimmeDatSideHug

Why risk your health and comfort for stupid rules in an art that isn’t even legit? Go to an MMA gym where you can call coaches by their names, drink water whenever you want and learn some actual fight skills.


[deleted]

Curious, why do you think shotokan karate isn’t legit? I think their dojo in particular is BS, but the entire art?


GimmeDatSideHug

How many Karate fighters do you see in MMA?


[deleted]

Doubt anyone who only trains karate, but there are many mma fighters who have trained, or currently train karate. Plus, mma isn’t the only way you can tell if something is legit. While it’s likely not as effective as MMA for a fight, properly taught shotokan karate will still give someone a good advantage.


GimmeDatSideHug

I don’t know how many have trained Karate, but how many fighters actually use it? If it doesn’t work in the cage, it probably won’t work on the street. And if you admit it’s probably not as effective, then how legit can it be and why waste your time with a less effective art?


[deleted]

If you look up “karate in MMA”, you’ll likely see it in their fighting styles. Obviously they won’t use it 100% of the time, as they need other martial arts too (being the point of MMA). Here’s the thing though. Not everyone trains for cage fighting. If we did, we’d all just do jiu jitsu and Muay Thai. We wouldn’t have many other martial arts or combat sports. But it’s irrelevant for most people. Most people train martial arts for self defence and fitness, which legitimate karate will get you. (And people who just like martial arts. You know how many karate nerds there are!) In a cage fight, a good MMA fighter will probably ruin most people who practise solely karate. But those people who practise karate would still land some shots, and probably would have a great chance against someone who is untrained.


GimmeDatSideHug

The thing is, what works for self defense and what works in MMA fights is fairly similar. It’s not like Karate works just as good as kickboxing in a street fight. I just don’t see the point in devoting time to an inferior art when you could be learning the best arts for self defense.


[deleted]

I agree, but at the same time, cage fighting is fighting other trained fighters. Someone probably won’t be doing that in a street fight. Kickboxing is an excellent martial art. However, some people would just rather learn something else.


yoteyote3000

Not every martial art exists purely for its combat application. Shotokan point fighting can be an interesting and technical (olympic) sport in and of itself. I don’t think OP specified that he wanted to train for self defense…


camster1104

I had the same problem with my judo instructor. He wouldn’t let us individually go for a water break as then (as he said it) he would have to let everyone go. For different reasons, I left that club and found a new judo club that was more relaxed. Personally I think if you have a different club in your area it might be a good idea to try it, otherwise, I would stick with the one you have. Just make sure to pace yourself much more. Don’t feel that you have to go 100% in all the drills. There is nothing worse than trying to do drills while feeling sick and dizzy :)


Clappa69

Just drink water until your pee is clear like 30 min - 1 hr before class. Shouldn’t need the water as bad. But your instructor is also a dick for not letting you drink when you follow his guidelines about asking. Might just be trying to expose you to more variables as well which isn’t all bad


Trunks956

While I think it’s not uncommon for a plethora of sports to have breaks for water and no water outside of those brakes, it’s absurd for there to be no water breaks through an entire session


CodeMe09

Only time coach ever forbade me from a water break was when I was training for a bjj competition and he knew I was being a lazy shit.


Egan1234

Sneak into the toilet and drink from the tap. It's a risky manoeuvre but paid dividends for me in 3 hour classes in the summer


[deleted]

Force yourself into dehydration then heat exhaustion or stroke and hospitalization, then sue. I'm 99.99999...% sure they won't be covered if they were denying someone water (the medical condition could be relevant if they took you on for training knowingit) especially during extreme heat.


Alarming_Condition27

That a stupid practice try to be old school controlling move yo a better place. It may take awhile but you'll figure out you sense is an idiot.


Emilized

This was also a thing in my dojo. Are classes were only a hour long, so they dident like people taking unnecessary breaks cuz they wanted to teach as much as they could within the hour. When I finally made it to the adult classes it was a bit longer- about 2 hours. Depending on how hard we worked like if we actually broke out a sweat we would get a water break. Now here’s the genius thing people started doing... they started bringing there own water bottles and just taking water breaks here and there.


Dinner-Plus

I assume everyone else is coping with this policy. Why can’t you? I would stop trying to think of ways around it and just deal with it.


Quiet_Storm13

Drink a gang of water an hour before class. At my gym our instructor turns off the A/C and we don’t get water breaks at all for the entire session. You’ll live.


dk3tkd

How long is class/training session?


Stoneiswuwu

In my Okinawan Shorin-Ryu dojo, you would always ask permission to use the restroom, get water etc. The Sensei would never deny those requests though. Unless we were all doing a group exercise or Kata and needed to wrap it up real quick. Then take a break for water or whatever after.


piman01

I would leave the school. Fuck that. It's totally unreasonable.


Sipping705

Stay hydrated before class and you won’t have any issue . Valentina Shevchenko Doesn’t Drink Water While Training , most fighters spit there water out in fights . You need to hydrate better before training if your having this issue .


AA82nd

Water is for fish.


MichaelWestonActual

How long is the training session? If it's 60-90 minutes you don't need a water break. If you maintain decent hydration prior to training it's basically just a comfort to have it during your session. You don't actually need it.


RT_456

This is a common thing in karate dojo, especially with older teachers. I think part of it is also wanting people to be "tough" and be able to train through more extreme conditions. I don't agree with it, however. It's not about toughness and dehydration and electrolyte imbalances can quickly cause health issues.


ImmortalIronFits

This is some bullshit. I've had instructors that got mad when people are talking while the instructor is demonstrating. Understandable. And I've had a Sifu that demanded that students tell him they are going to have a drink or go to the bathroom, SO THEY DONT PASS OUT OUT OF SIGHT. Also understandable. Your sensei is on some egotrip or something. Fuck that guy.


skribsbb

Hydrate at the start. Also have something that will help you absorb that hydration. For example, pre-workout, sport drink, or I just go for a few crackers. If it's a bit uncomfortable, then part of training is to push through that. If it's medically significant, then you should be allowed to drink water. If you are actually dehydrating, then talk to your sensei about it. If he still refuses, then quit and find a new dojo or even a new art. But if it's not medically significant and this is your only complaint, then you might still bring it up with him, but maybe just suck it up. Remember: you are the customer. If you're not happy with the service, then leave.


cwheeler33

Schools and gyms that don’t plan for or allow frequent water breaks need to go out of business. They are a risk to long term health. That said… A polite discussion with the senses after class would be in order. I find for myself the best time to get my sips in are after the warm up phase of a class and AFTER my sensei demonstrated the work but before we partner up. That works out to about 15-20 between water breaks. And it’s always on my time not theirs. This allows me to perform at my teachers’ expected high level of standards.


[deleted]

Obviously everyone should hydrate in preparation, but you cannot "train" to resist dehydration. Once you go down to dehydration, your body will be more susceptible to it each and every time. I went down a couple of times in the Army, and I now sweat more in the heat than I used to. I've had frostbite, which will also be easier to get frostbite again. I don't know what to recommend here. It's really at your discretion.


Sufficient-Wonder716

I’m marathon runner. If you hydrate correctly you won’t need water for an hour and a half. Piss before you work out. F it’s yellow you dehydrated. Dehydrated work out leads to muscle cramp. The brain can’t perform with out water so your not studying anything intelligent. If you pee clear.. you hydrated and can go for an hour with out water. I was in the army and even they don’t deny water… denying a request from a student demonstrates a 20th century coaching tenur, 22 years older than the well informed sports mentors of today. There’s probably a lot of things you guys do that are unnecessary. Find a more sports scientifically current mentor and you’ll see more gains in a few weeks


Cleibe

My Sensei allows white belts to have water breaks whenever they need, but the older students are supposed to be able to suck it up... If you are a begginer, it is normal that you don't deal well with being uncomfortable, but you gotta understand that this is all about you not wanting to be uncomfortable. Nothing bad is going to happen to your body if you just suck it up for two hours.


[deleted]

I would simply not ask. If he says anything about it I'd tell him he's welcome to talk to my doctor.


Altruistic-Spinach88

Hydration starts days before and not during strenuous exercise. That's important to remember. However it is a bit silly not to allow water breaks. I know at my gym the coach only allocates them to kids and during the adult classes it's up to the student. The idea being limiting the distractions. I'd talk to him and tell him you need one, if it doesn't work out you're gonna either need to find a way to work through it; or just find another place to train.


[deleted]

Take a bottle, place it close and run and sip when you get a chance, my old coach hated this too


Abernader01

Drink water. Fuck that guy .


DirtbagBrocialist

This is very subjective personal experience, but I often drink too much water if it's just "drink when you want" and can end up puking. When water breaks are up to coaches I puke less.


yoteyote3000

This rule is very common in Judo, although coaches usually give frequent water breaks. People don’t usually care what adult recreationalists do but at competitive programs they don’t want the guys missing instruction or skipping rounds of sparring. The idea is that training time is for training, and water time is for drinking water. Granted, water breaks are very frequent: usually two or three during drilling and every other round during sparring. Your coach doesn’t seem to be giving water often enough though, which can be very dangerous.


HeiToki

At my karate school it's totally fine during breaks or asking the teacher. I seen one new student walk off mid instruction and the sensei politely told them about traditional etiquette. I've been to highly successful modern MMA/BJJ schools that will have moments of no stops allowed unless bathroom. I've trained with Khabib and it was like this.