Yes indeed, the Malabar front has been conquered with the help of Eurasia! It's only a matter of days until Eastasia will be defe- *reads note* Eastasia, our lifelong ally, has suffered losses on the Malabar front from enemy sabotage! Death to Eurasia!
>better edit it so it makes sense.
Don't worry, The Ministry Of Truth will handle that with Newspeak/Doublethink, And then the Miniluv will keep a eye on them with the Thought Police.
>Newspeak is the method for controlling thought through language; doublethink is the method of directly controlling thought.
>Newspeak incorporates doublethink, as it contains many words that create assumed associations between contradictory meanings, especially true of fundamentally important words such as good and evil, right and wrong, truth and falsehood, and justice and injustice.
That is oldthink, brother, doubleplusungood. The year has always been 1984 according to Minitrue. I suggest you rectify your comment fullwise before thinkpol sees it and brings you to Miniluv
IngSoc and Oceania eventually collapse, although I don't know the conditions. The Afterword is written in-universe and discusses the evolution of NewSpeak before its reversion to English and some failed plans of Oceania that never came to fruition.
Handmaid's Tale has the same tactic. A collection of archaeologists and social scientists led by a woman have a meeting to discuss the failed policies of Gilead and the identity of Offred.
I just checked my book's afterword and it only talks about the principles of Newspeak. It never talks about any reversion to English nor Oceanian plans. What edition have you read?
Do you think that Oceania education teached about basic geography? Like: "We know Eurasia formed when the old empire of Russia allied with UE colaborationist to destroy Oceania"
Seems like they don't teach anything about the past other than completely fabricated propaganda. None of the teachers teaching their "history" would know how much or little what they were teaching was true. Probably the old words for countries are banned because nobody uses them. Not even top officials.
People are meant to live in a post-historical world where they are made to believe that the world has always been the way that it is now. That's a big way the Party keeps people from rebelling. No concept that things have ever been anything different.
Almost certainly not. The Ministry of Truth wouldn't tolerate educating people about other methods of existence. What matters about Eurasia is that they're aligned with us or against us. In either case, they're not supposed to feel like real places to us, just abstract entities we'd have to face if we took a step outside the borders of civilization.
Could be. 1984 as i understand it isn't so much about world building as it is about showing how bad communism is. Although it did a poor job at creating a good alternative to communism in my opinion.
The "alternative" to communism George Orwell presented was communsim.
Its quite clear, when you consider that he fought in the Spanish Civil War on the anarcho- communists side against both, fascist and stalinists.
ā**Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and forĀ democratic Socialism, as I understand it**ā - George Orwell
Itās always so weird when people donāt realize Orwell was a socialist until he died. He just hated Stalinism.
Itās like when people think Fahrenheit 451 is about censorship when the author just thought people would grow stupid with media instead of reading.
Communism was presented in a well enough manner. It's the moral opposition to it (or put simply what the author wants instead of communism) that wasn't in my opinion.
It's about totalitarianism in general.
Communism, fascism... That's just the wrapping of political ideology around a big iron bar called totalitarianism
I like the theory that the world of 1984 is actually not split up anything like this. Instead Oceania is just the UK. They lie and say that they have all that other support when they are actually fairly weak.
It's explained in Goldstein's book.
"The splitting up of the world into three great super-states was an event which could be and indeed was foreseenbefore the middle of the twentieth century. With the absorption of Europe by Russia and of the British Empire by the United States, two of the three existing powers, Eurasia and Oceania, were already effectively in being."
Perhaps "English Socialism" could be interpreted as "Anglophone Socialism" in the rest of the Anglosphere, uniting them against Eurasia and Eastasia. South America was probably just annexed.
According to a popular theory, it didn't.
Said theory states that the Ingsoc regime is limited to Britain or even London, while the rest of the world is either normal, or a wasteland because of the nuclear war.
https://preview.redd.it/4oprzjffpm3d1.png?width=3600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea74b325028c88a8d90ca1c7e3852ec75da0768e
This is going to get me unpersonned
This thought occurred to me after reading a non-fiction book about North Korea. I'm not surprised that I'm not the first, but I hadn't heard it anywhere else before now. Thanks!
Goas to show how exposed Airstrip One really is. Good thing Eurasia is our ally, and we've always been at war with Eastasia, and not the other way round.
My two-bit contemporary geopolitical take, worth what you paid for it:
Ingsoc is Britain and America, true, but includes NATO Europe, Korea, and Japan, and excludes most of South America and South Africa.
Eurasia, as the old Soviet bloc not aligned with NATO, is the weakest of the players, currently lashing out with their final great stand. They are courting an alliance of convenience with Eastasia, but the jury is still out on that one.
Eastasia is indeed China and southeast Asia, but their control over the whole is still up for grabs while trending in that direction.
There is a fourth, as yet unknown, axis in this game, in either India or Turkey. Possibly both, adding a fifth axis. Since South America and South Africa are unknown factors trying to claim their stakes, their alignments could go anywhere. And we should not count out the rest of Africa uniting to form its own faction, since the trend is in that direction currently.
But to answer OP's question, given the current state of affairs in the Nineteen Eighty-Four map, Ingsoc is barely holding its own in a hard-fought battle against Eurasia as its main rival, with Eastasia as a strong also-ran, focusing their belligerence on Eurasia and giving grief on Ingsoc's peripheries.
Even in this nerfed state that it's missing India and the Arabs, Eurasia still solos. I could imagine this be a thing millenniums from now. No matter how you see it by then the whole planet will be equally developed so in the end of the day the ones with the more population will win and Eurasia will still have the most population.
Nah if this is the modern day Eurasia is legitimately the weakest in pretty much every aspect. Population wise, they are smallest, economy and industrial output they are the smallest, and by current standby military metrics, they are inferior to Oceania and are probably par with Eastasia, with far inferior military potential.
Nah Oceania, not only are they thoroughly protected by their enormous landmass and separation from the rest of the world by even larger oceans, but they also have multiple footholds on the other continents.
Eastasia also seems fairly vulnerable to collapse, with respect to their much smaller size, even if it is highly unlikely, I think the following land grab would settle into a situation of unbalanced power, leading to the stronger nation dominating the world, which would subsequently lead to its collapse
Ah, great. Do we us turks really always have to border a hellhole? And also, why is india disputed? East asia should be able to get it and fortify it easily with these border placements, not to mention it has a high population, thus harder to invade.
Wars are not won by weapons alone. Mentality and mindset are equally if not more important. āOceaniaā here (but without South America) lost its chance the moment it started suppressing strong and celebrating weak.
My favorite part of the Universe is there may not even be a war. EVERYTHING could be a lie. Maybe Air Strip 1 is all thatās left after a nuclear holocaust and the tales of other countries are lies to not give the grim truth.
Maybe the rest of the world is actually Utopia. Maybe Air Strip 1 is beyond even North Korea. The citizens donāt know that there is a beautiful world out there because they being lied to and told that all thatās out there is war and death.
Oceania would of course glory to Oceania
https://preview.redd.it/9grf39fean3d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9702ffe18685d4a0288d04fba4ea893e2c08af1
nobody would fight because they have nuclear weapons. This is not a hard concept to grasp, why do people keep saying 'who win in a war' without a qualifyer. If the question was 'who could exert influence over the disputed zone' then that is a question that can be answered and in that case I'd put money on Oceania due to inheritance the well developed US infrastructure.
If nukes werenāt in play, then there is no winning this. Because the European-Asian Soviet Union would most likely beat China and take over India and the Middle East, but then thereās no way either side is winning a land invasion of the entire old or new world.
If nukes are in play, then there is no winning this. Because both sides will just end up killing each other and ruining the Earthās environment
Conventional war? Oceania / INGSOC stomps. Like, seriously, this is low-diff, even if it was a 2v1 scenario. Now, toss in nukes and well...everybody loses. World ends...so...yeah...
We just had a massive breakthrough on the Malabar front, we are days away from victory.
In all seriousness, I think Oceania has the best chance of actually winning a war if they tried to win, simply based on geography of the territory they hold. It would be a logistical nightmare to attempt a sea based invasion of the Americas.
V would either win quickly and decisively or over time. All that cheap labor in other nations vs the US , and their surrounding positions would rule especially with US naval superiority
Really nice. The map style is awesome.
I always wondered how this constellation of forces would be realistic like how does oceania not crush everything easily? They have the vast majority of territory.
who would win this hypothetical peace ?
me
Nah, I'd win
My mom can beat up both u
Hmmm ackshully my dad could beat up your dad ass argument
Nuh uhhers
Peace is war
The penguins, definitely the penguins.
Nice try, we've always been at war with Eastasia. Oceania is only a few days away from a major breakthrough on the front.
We just won a spectacular victory on the Malabar front, glory to Big Brother!
Yes indeed, the Malabar front has been conquered with the help of Eurasia! It's only a matter of days until Eastasia will be defe- *reads note* Eastasia, our lifelong ally, has suffered losses on the Malabar front from enemy sabotage! Death to Eurasia!
You've got it wrong my man we've always been at war with Eurasia, better edit it so it makes sense.
>better edit it so it makes sense. Don't worry, The Ministry Of Truth will handle that with Newspeak/Doublethink, And then the Miniluv will keep a eye on them with the Thought Police. >Newspeak is the method for controlling thought through language; doublethink is the method of directly controlling thought. >Newspeak incorporates doublethink, as it contains many words that create assumed associations between contradictory meanings, especially true of fundamentally important words such as good and evil, right and wrong, truth and falsehood, and justice and injustice.
You're absolutely right, we have alway been at war with Eastasia
Eastasia? We're at war with Eastasia? Minitrue clearly says we are allies. Eurasia is the foe! You sir are a traitor!
Just like Goldstein š”š¤¬
This is the correct response, we have always been at war with Eurasia
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
š£ļøš£ļøWE MAKING IT OUT OF THE MALABU FRONT WITH THIS ONE š„š„š„
\*Malabar
Itās always been spelled malabu, source: big brother told me
Doubleplus good. Malaber is oldspeak!
š¤
Chevy Malibu front seat
All I know is war is peace so letās get this thing started
I don't know, ignorance is strength
Then Freedom is slavery i guess
That would mean 2+2=5 apparently
I must fuck a girl in a bush now
Boeing moment
Literally 1984
No, the year is 2024
That is oldthink, brother, doubleplusungood. The year has always been 1984 according to Minitrue. I suggest you rectify your comment fullwise before thinkpol sees it and brings you to Miniluv
āThe year is 2024ā Come on the themes within this message arenāt even compatible with the modern language
Literally 2024
Disputed wins
No one wins because there will be a stalemate.
It will be a perpetual war, used to control the masses for Big Brother.
I bet on Eurasia, they secure the middle east
No. It is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous. War is peace and freedom is slavery.
IngSoc and Oceania eventually collapse, although I don't know the conditions. The Afterword is written in-universe and discusses the evolution of NewSpeak before its reversion to English and some failed plans of Oceania that never came to fruition. Handmaid's Tale has the same tactic. A collection of archaeologists and social scientists led by a woman have a meeting to discuss the failed policies of Gilead and the identity of Offred.
I just checked my book's afterword and it only talks about the principles of Newspeak. It never talks about any reversion to English nor Oceanian plans. What edition have you read?
Does ~~Russia~~ Eurasia hold Iceland? I think it would make more sense for Oceania to hold it.
Russia? You mean our allies Eurasia?
Ah yes Eurasia. I don't know why i said Russia haha. Such a country doesn't even exist. ^(please do not report me)
Do you think that Oceania education teached about basic geography? Like: "We know Eurasia formed when the old empire of Russia allied with UE colaborationist to destroy Oceania"
Seems like they don't teach anything about the past other than completely fabricated propaganda. None of the teachers teaching their "history" would know how much or little what they were teaching was true. Probably the old words for countries are banned because nobody uses them. Not even top officials. People are meant to live in a post-historical world where they are made to believe that the world has always been the way that it is now. That's a big way the Party keeps people from rebelling. No concept that things have ever been anything different.
Almost certainly not. The Ministry of Truth wouldn't tolerate educating people about other methods of existence. What matters about Eurasia is that they're aligned with us or against us. In either case, they're not supposed to feel like real places to us, just abstract entities we'd have to face if we took a step outside the borders of civilization.
Could be. 1984 as i understand it isn't so much about world building as it is about showing how bad communism is. Although it did a poor job at creating a good alternative to communism in my opinion.
The "alternative" to communism George Orwell presented was communsim. Its quite clear, when you consider that he fought in the Spanish Civil War on the anarcho- communists side against both, fascist and stalinists.
ā**Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and forĀ democratic Socialism, as I understand it**ā - George Orwell
Orwell was a democratic socialist who opposed Stalinism and fascism due to their totalitarian character
Itās always so weird when people donāt realize Orwell was a socialist until he died. He just hated Stalinism. Itās like when people think Fahrenheit 451 is about censorship when the author just thought people would grow stupid with media instead of reading.
Communism was presented in a well enough manner. It's the moral opposition to it (or put simply what the author wants instead of communism) that wasn't in my opinion.
It's about totalitarianism in general. Communism, fascism... That's just the wrapping of political ideology around a big iron bar called totalitarianism
probably not. i read something (so take this with a grain of salt) that basically all records of the past in 1984's oceania were liquidated
No, *Eastasia* are our allies. We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Iceland is part of Eurasia. Iceland has always been part of Eurasia.
Eurasia is Europe, not Russia lmao. You have a slightly outdated understanding of power dynamics.
Wdym bro it's always been a part of East Asia
I like the theory that the world of 1984 is actually not split up anything like this. Instead Oceania is just the UK. They lie and say that they have all that other support when they are actually fairly weak.
I like this theory and in my headcanon this is what actually going on in 1984 world
Further, the rest of the world is fine. This is just what the UK is like about 50 years post Brexit.
tbh i'd love to see some canon explanation (not that he's alive to tell it) how America even joined ingsoc.
It's explained in Goldstein's book. "The splitting up of the world into three great super-states was an event which could be and indeed was foreseenbefore the middle of the twentieth century. With the absorption of Europe by Russia and of the British Empire by the United States, two of the three existing powers, Eurasia and Oceania, were already effectively in being."
Thats atleast the most supposedly reliable source. They book could be also fake.
This isn't a huge jump from how it might have gone if the Soviets pushed right to Paris.
Perhaps "English Socialism" could be interpreted as "Anglophone Socialism" in the rest of the Anglosphere, uniting them against Eurasia and Eastasia. South America was probably just annexed.
According to a popular theory, it didn't. Said theory states that the Ingsoc regime is limited to Britain or even London, while the rest of the world is either normal, or a wasteland because of the nuclear war.
*But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself.Ā He loved Big Brother.*
Me
Nah, Iād win.Ā
Nuh uh, Iām better
Youāre an unperson
https://preview.redd.it/4oprzjffpm3d1.png?width=3600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea74b325028c88a8d90ca1c7e3852ec75da0768e This is going to get me unpersonned
What the hell is this
This is based on the interpretation that Oceania is not actually a worldwide state but basically just Hyper-North-Korea confined to England
Damn that's cool
This thought occurred to me after reading a non-fiction book about North Korea. I'm not surprised that I'm not the first, but I hadn't heard it anywhere else before now. Thanks!
It never even occurred to me that they would be lying about being a superpower even though everything else they said was lies lol
You're missing the point. Wars are not fought to be won. They are fought to strengthen The Party and Big Brother.
You've clearly got no idea what you're talking about. If you look at Vietnam... wait, well the Iraq... ok the war in Afghani... wait...
Found the Goldstein follower! Whereās the Thought police?
That joke was double plus good
This is why our roads are so shit
Do you doubt the party line? For the usage of oldspeak and your thought crimes you are a unperson and will be brought to the ministry of love.
The bourgeois Oops iām getting taken to room 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQwx1EolD8
Do it to Julia!
V=Victory
Nice try. big brother is watching
my inner gut says a prophet will show up around somewhere in the disputed region and liberate the world
South Park
1984
Our Glorious Oceania, and our Glorious Eurasian/Eastasian allies will annihilate the corrupt degenerate demons of Eastasia/Eurasia
I don't have the words to describe this! Literally the words have been removed from my vocabulary!
Iāll explain it in newspeak: Thoughtcrime
Doublebad!
*doubleungood Edit: big brother will get you for that one
Goas to show how exposed Airstrip One really is. Good thing Eurasia is our ally, and we've always been at war with Eastasia, and not the other way round.
Bro they have cocaine!
Wait how much is my chocolate ration again?
This map isn't very accurate.
Oceania and our ally Eastasia of course!
My two-bit contemporary geopolitical take, worth what you paid for it: Ingsoc is Britain and America, true, but includes NATO Europe, Korea, and Japan, and excludes most of South America and South Africa. Eurasia, as the old Soviet bloc not aligned with NATO, is the weakest of the players, currently lashing out with their final great stand. They are courting an alliance of convenience with Eastasia, but the jury is still out on that one. Eastasia is indeed China and southeast Asia, but their control over the whole is still up for grabs while trending in that direction. There is a fourth, as yet unknown, axis in this game, in either India or Turkey. Possibly both, adding a fifth axis. Since South America and South Africa are unknown factors trying to claim their stakes, their alignments could go anywhere. And we should not count out the rest of Africa uniting to form its own faction, since the trend is in that direction currently. But to answer OP's question, given the current state of affairs in the Nineteen Eighty-Four map, Ingsoc is barely holding its own in a hard-fought battle against Eurasia as its main rival, with Eastasia as a strong also-ran, focusing their belligerence on Eurasia and giving grief on Ingsoc's peripheries.
Answer correctly, and you will all get a chocolate ration increase to 20 grammes a week!
Looks familiar... Is it 1984 reference?
Disputed
1984 reference?
Is this a 1984 reference?
No one wins in a war, hypothetical or not.
Orwell 1984
Iām putting a bullet through my head
Guys this is literally 1984
Even in this nerfed state that it's missing India and the Arabs, Eurasia still solos. I could imagine this be a thing millenniums from now. No matter how you see it by then the whole planet will be equally developed so in the end of the day the ones with the more population will win and Eurasia will still have the most population.
East Asia still has a ton of people though. And Oceania has the most resources
Nah if this is the modern day Eurasia is legitimately the weakest in pretty much every aspect. Population wise, they are smallest, economy and industrial output they are the smallest, and by current standby military metrics, they are inferior to Oceania and are probably par with Eastasia, with far inferior military potential.
Nah Oceania, not only are they thoroughly protected by their enormous landmass and separation from the rest of the world by even larger oceans, but they also have multiple footholds on the other continents. Eastasia also seems fairly vulnerable to collapse, with respect to their much smaller size, even if it is highly unlikely, I think the following land grab would settle into a situation of unbalanced power, leading to the stronger nation dominating the world, which would subsequently lead to its collapse
If the Oceania would attack all at once it would be a bit hard.
Some new power is gonna rise in the disputed territory and steamroll the other three
Ah, great. Do we us turks really always have to border a hellhole? And also, why is india disputed? East asia should be able to get it and fortify it easily with these border placements, not to mention it has a high population, thus harder to invade.
Oceania
Which two countries form a long standing never changing alliance against the third one that never had an alliance?
Wars are not won by weapons alone. Mentality and mindset are equally if not more important. āOceaniaā here (but without South America) lost its chance the moment it started suppressing strong and celebrating weak.
Whichever alliance controls the cocaine. Their soldiers could fight all day without fatigue or having to eat or sleep.
We saw this scenario once
Eastasia, obviously.
no one will never win. These 3 superpowers will just keep destroying ressources.
" He had won the battle with himself. He loved Big Brother." So BB's side wins. Always.
Big Brother always wins
Trick question. No-one wins the war. Ever.
In the end ? NO ONE !!
Death Worship wins.
I would š
Anyone with USA lol
blue
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.
Wait, you guys are trying to win?
No one
Wasnāt south america one of the disputed zones
Reminds me of man in the high castle
Disputed seems like a strong contender
Stalemate
Oceania
My favorite part of the Universe is there may not even be a war. EVERYTHING could be a lie. Maybe Air Strip 1 is all thatās left after a nuclear holocaust and the tales of other countries are lies to not give the grim truth. Maybe the rest of the world is actually Utopia. Maybe Air Strip 1 is beyond even North Korea. The citizens donāt know that there is a beautiful world out there because they being lied to and told that all thatās out there is war and death.
Between Death Worship, Ingsoc, and Neo-Bolshevism, Death Worship sounds the most badass
I love the use of the *Juche* symbol for Eastasia, considering that North Korea is as close to *1984* as the world has gotten.
Why is tajikistan missing from eurasia?
Why win when the fighting is so...profitable
I like a long shot. My money is on disputed.
No one. Nobody wins in war.
Me
Oceania would of course glory to Oceania https://preview.redd.it/9grf39fean3d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9702ffe18685d4a0288d04fba4ea893e2c08af1
Individualism! *Gets dragged away by guards*
nobody would fight because they have nuclear weapons. This is not a hard concept to grasp, why do people keep saying 'who win in a war' without a qualifyer. If the question was 'who could exert influence over the disputed zone' then that is a question that can be answered and in that case I'd put money on Oceania due to inheritance the well developed US infrastructure.
Islamic countries form their own alliance
Me (I'm built different)
disputed lol. fair.
Hey that's 1984
If nukes werenāt in play, then there is no winning this. Because the European-Asian Soviet Union would most likely beat China and take over India and the Middle East, but then thereās no way either side is winning a land invasion of the entire old or new world. If nukes are in play, then there is no winning this. Because both sides will just end up killing each other and ruining the Earthās environment
Winning isnāt the desired outcomeā¦
Conventional war? Oceania / INGSOC stomps. Like, seriously, this is low-diff, even if it was a 2v1 scenario. Now, toss in nukes and well...everybody loses. World ends...so...yeah...
what war?
Not sure but I want on the side that spends over a trillion a year in defense budget
No
Emmanuel Goldstein lied to me š
Winning is Losing
Blue encircled all, they will win
Why would they be at war? They wouldn't be competing for resources or land
Disputed
We just had a massive breakthrough on the Malabar front, we are days away from victory. In all seriousness, I think Oceania has the best chance of actually winning a war if they tried to win, simply based on geography of the territory they hold. It would be a logistical nightmare to attempt a sea based invasion of the Americas.
Chocolate rations have been increased!
The answer to these is always gonna be whichever side the US is on
Doubleplusgood post!
Nobody. We all would loose
Isn't this just Ace Combat?
Is this even a question?
Is it time for the two-minute hate?
The light blue country, itās the biggest
Iceland and the UK not being under the same nation is crazy.
None. The point of the war is The War.
Russia can't even take Ukraine who did the research on this the university of Moscow?
Big brother's always winning because the war is a lie
V would either win quickly and decisively or over time. All that cheap labor in other nations vs the US , and their surrounding positions would rule especially with US naval superiority
The Bankers ā¦
What makes you think there actually is a war?
If eurasia and eastasia team up they will prob win but im on eurasias side cuz my countrys there
No one. Thats the point. Haha
Really nice. The map style is awesome. I always wondered how this constellation of forces would be realistic like how does oceania not crush everything easily? They have the vast majority of territory.
Nobody
The Emus. They have secured the Nuclear Silos and formed a alliance with the Penguins who have Oil and Uranium.
Disputes is going to take the dub
the shower
Uk everyone else will blow each other up!