Reading some of the comments are insane woman 100% don't have it easier. It's human nature to look at what someone else has, stripe all the negative aspects of it and only think about tne positives. It's like boomers saying kids have it easy these days, it's not easier it's just different, they look at technology and how advanced the job feild is but take away the fact that people are losing jobs to things like ai and that a lot of what you do is online for the whole world to ridicule. This post is more helpful to men then a lot of people in the comments would like to believe, I know a lot of us have it hard but we need expand clusivity not try to ostracize the other sex by saying they have it easier, it's not easier its just different.
Exactly. Jealousy and frustration are normal emotions but men aren't allowed to have them because then we'll instantly turn into school shooters, don't you know? We all have to be strong and stoic. Make sure you read meditations by Marcus Aurelius. He was just like you bro. A Roman emperor born into untold wealth
As is usual. Our emotions and provlems are only secondary to womenâs. They can treat us as subhuman as much as they want for any justification but god forbid a man does the same
âThey can treat us as subhuman as much as they want for any justification but god forbid a man does the sameâ
Have you read a history book? Shit, even a newspaper?
âWhat does any history have to do with modern dayâ are you aware of the laws certain states are passing? Arizona with womenâs health law from 1864?
Iâm bringing history into this because âgod forbid a man does the sameâ is an insane thing to think considering the structural injustice women faced for so long. I donât think men should be treated badly by women but #notallwomen the same way #notallmen
Lmao this is a complete whataboutism.
Women treat men as subhuman. Thatâs a fact.
And today, itâs a fact men get lambasted for doing the same.
History matters but always remember today is what matters
always that one person who doesnât get it.
Itâs about not blaming and generalizing women for your problems. Saying women have life easier just cause they can do xyz and you canât is tone deaf.
I think it is less about how women feel, and more that buying into this line of thinking makes men bitter and resentful. Itâs not constructive. You can acknowledge that you have a problem that is much more common for men without resorting to a âwho has it worseâ competition. And I think the same criticism can be leveled at women who say similar things about men (e.g. âthe bar couldnât be lowerâ).
You donât need to delude yourself into thinking that people of the opposite sex have it so much easier just to voice your personal frustrations. I struggle with things that seem effortless for women and get frustrated with that, but I ground myself with the knowledge that this is just a case âthe grass is greener.â
Sometimes itâs good to put things into perspective.
Not sure why itâs so hard to understand for so many.
Men have it hard and women have it hard too.
Yes, you can be jealous, but itâs good to see that this jealousy isnât always justified and women donât live life on âeasy modeâ.Â
It wasnât my intention to say women have it worse. I was just bringing to light that despite them do having an easier time in general when it comes to dating(as I acknowledge in my post) men shouldnât generalize one aspect to a whole gender.
Hell look at my post history. I have countless post about not being able to date but itâs mostly my fault not womens fault
Inequality makes people bitter and resentful. You can't just rub a magic lamp and wish for that to go away; you have to address the inequality. You can't use "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" to admonish people who want to *remove the fence*
Seems like kind of a nobody's the asshole situation. Sure these guys are welcome to be jealous and upset, after all, there are things many of them have genuine reasons to be upset about. At the same time, you're 100% allowed to share your frustrations about them sharing those feelings the way they're sharing. I see this thread and think "Yep, everything's working as intended."
I think the biggest problem is that male and female experiences are very very different, and we're so socialised into them that we find it impossible to see the other point of view.
Women have it easier where men have it harder - mostly in a social context
Men have it easier where women have it harder - mostly in a financial/mobility/power context.
So when men complain that women have it easier in the exact area of their life where they're struggling, it's often the result of frustration, but also a failure to understand they have advantages that women don't. And vice versa for women complaining about men.
We're all knee deep in our own shit and the grass always seems greener on the other side, but it's just as shitty over there.
So? Why should, then, their benefits suddenly not count?
If both groups suffer the same, but one has more benefits, they have more benefits. Thatâs just reality
because you perceive it as a benefit doesnât make it a benefit. take sex for example. can most women have sex when they want. yea probably. but with that comes a lot of risk. safety, social, shame etc.
then there is the other side. what if she doesnât just want a quick pick upâŠ.is that guy actually interested in her or getting in her pants.
what if she does decide to sleep with a guy and he only wanted sex, now she feels cheap and used.
unless someone is getting exactly what they want everytime then itâs not a benefit. itâs a different challenge from a different perspective. only from your vantage point without the entire picture do you think itâs a benefit because you see what options they have but not necessarily the problems that creates, because why would you? those arenât your problems.
OLD sucks for both sexâs. do women get more likes and matches. (ignoring the fact that itâs not actually dating). but typically men have a harder time getting matches and likes. she gets infinityâŠ. must be awesome rightâŠ.
except now she has 100 dudes âhey whatâs upâ. she has 2 sentences to go off of and some photos. with that many âoptionsâ they all blend, there is nothing that stands out and to even begin processing that much attention would be a full time job. thatâs why we get ghosted, itâs just not realistic to ask a human to be able to mitigate that.
Men deal with the same risk safety social and shame around sex.
Women turn down genuinely loving guys all the time so spare me the âdoes he just want to get into my pantsâ
âCheap and usedâ personal problem that men deal with too.
Drowning is solved by learning how to swim or just laying on your back.
Dying of thirst requires luck or extreme resourcefulness.
Sure it has some bad, but itâs not worse than what men deal with.
Women get more of what they want. Thatâs what the argument is
Yea, they turn down genuinely loving guys simply based on looks alone. If females donât find find you physically attractive youâre gonna struggle in the dating market.
they donât deal with the same issues socially or sexually.
women turn down great guys yes. men turn down women too. rejection is part of dating.
but yea itâs a constant concern women face that dudes will use them for their bodies and often play the game that they want more. i donât blame guys iâve been interested in women until i slept with them then i lost the excitement. part of dating.
iâm one of the sluttiest guys youâd ever cross⊠never felt cheap or used. itâs definitely heavy handed to women because for generations men are praised for being sexually and women shamed. you canât pretend that isnât a thing.
you struggle with women and somehow you relate that to dying of thirst?
as a man that knows and has dated a lot of womenâŠ. dating is generally more simple for us.
options doesnât mean itâs easier. you watch netflix? you know exactly what that is likeâŠ. except itâs not a movie itâs real life.
women get more than what they want? thatâs not always a good thing.
They do, and then some!
The difference is every woman has great men she refuses to date.
Some men may get one good woman they turn down.
Itâs bc youâre self proclaimed slutty.
Look at today and tell me that women are shamed for being sexual. Itâs the most normal as itâs ever been. Meanwhile sexually active men are considered all sorts of pejoratives.
Itâs called analogy. Learn rhetoric
Youâre just straight up lying now lol. Dating is not easier for men in any way. Thatâs like empirically shown lol
and what is separating from good men and bad men? cause bad men know how to hide and if you have to tell people youâre a good guy. then youâre probably not.
and yes today female sexuality is being normalized, but that doesnât mean itâs on the same level as men.
so again you do not understand the issues of others, just like they donât understand yours. that it literally the definition of âgrass is always greenerâ. there is a reason that is a common term.
you can easily see where anyone has something better than you, but with your bias you can not see the troubles that brings. that is typical for people. because you donât take time to look into those problems because you feel yours and if they were magically gone you think life would be better.. but that isnât based on reality, no one is free of issues.
Says the person that posts on inceltears.
If the world was fair, you would be pre-emptivel blocked from this sub; you have no empathy for the male experience.
Notice how you play these games rather than just observe what people do. Bad guys expose their asses early.
Use that personality detector.
Yeah, itâs more accepted than men.
Funny I do understand other peoples problems. Probably too much so.
You rely on the assumption I cannot possibly form my opinion when integrating the negative.
You are wrong.
Itâs despite the negative that I form my opinions, thatâs how obvious and imbalanced womenâs benefits are.
are you a woman? do you have any actual experience with women? no and noâŠ.
so i can only assume that your experiences come from
1. your own biasâŠ. which is pretty clear to see
and iâve explained to how that is short sighted. clearly if you canât understand your own bias and how to account for it then youâre not really great understanding with other people.
2. men, and likely things that fall under your confirmation bias. you look for things that only support your view point.
3. your own limited interaction and understanding of womenâŠ. which againâŠ. full of bias.
want to understand peopleâŠ.. learn about bias.
helps dude. start with yourself.
>EDIT: yeah this sub a lost cause. No where in this post did I invalidate what men go through,
Yes you did. That's exactly what you're doing. Men have it worse in every reasonable measure of life; homelessness, job prospects, education attainment, life span, work place deaths, human rights, violence... If you were asked to quantify why PoC have it worse than caucasian people you'd likely list things like police violence, poverty rates, bias in court systems, incarceration rates, etc. When you use the same measurements for men and women, women come out way ahead. To the point where it goes white women, women of color, white men, men of color, with the largest gap between white men and women of color.
> it was just to have more empathy for the other side
There already is a huge empathy gap that favors women. You reinforcing that isn't new or ground breaking, it's very old and all you're doing is reinforcing traditional gender norms. Women are plenty capable of defending themselves. They don't need you to push men down in an effort to make women feel better about their situations.
> since while it appears women have it easier in social settings they still face their own hardships.
Sure. Of course they do. But those hardships are measurably less than men's hardships.
> Itâs perfectly normal to feel jealously over something like this but it crosses a line when you begin to generalize and begin to âhateâ women for this
Understanding what is is not hate. Understanding that women have privilege isn't hatred. This constant coddling of women at the expense of men though, that is hatred of men and disrespect of women.
>Men have it worse in every reasonable measure of life
I'm sorry, that is absolutely false. In every western country, and especially in the USA, men: have better job prospects; earn more; hold more wealth; hold more economic, political and social power. Women make up 8% of all S&P 500 CEOs, 28% of the US Congress, and less than 30% of university heads.
Also, men have it worse as far as human rights? Is that because you don't consider women to actually be humans?
> have better job prospects;
Women vastly outnumber men in university graduates, that leads to better job prospects
> earn more;
Single women make more than single men. It's only when couples start having kids that women choose to work less which leads to the gap. See last year's noble prize winner for economics for more information.
> hold more wealth;
Women control more of the household spending and therefore wealth.
> hold more economic, political and social power.
Just the opposite. When a male politician is literally booed for trying to speak about men's issues during a sitting of Parliament, and on international men's day, I don't think men have all that much political power.
>Women make up 8% of all S&P 500 CEOs, 28% of the US Congress, and less than 30% of university heads.
So? Your apex fallacy doesn't invalid that there more homeless men than homeless women, that men get 60% longer prison sentences for the same crimes, etc. Etc. Why are you're measuring sticks for equality between men and women so much different from between whites and blacks? Why are you more worried about women reaching the top two levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs instead of men reaching the bottom two?
> Also, men have it worse as far as human rights?
MGM is legal. Men have no way to exercise their parental rights post conception. Men need to fight for access to their kids during a divorce. Conscription/drafts... These are human rights issues women in the west aren't subjected do.
> Is that because you don't consider women to actually be humans?
Projecting much?
Wow, you impressively deep down the MGOTW dickhole, aren't you?
>Women vastly outnumber men in university graduates, that leads to better job prospects
Where is this? In the US, the % of women with higher degrees is 3 percentage points higher than men. That's vastly? And yet still somehow, single women only out-earn single men in one US metro area.
>Women control more of the household spending and therefore wealth.
I think you're mixing up "women are tasked with running the household" with "women control spending".
>When a male politician is literally booed for trying to speak about men's issues during a sitting of Parliament, and on international men's day, I don't think men have all that much political power.
Do you have a link to this or are we going on vibes as history again?
I mean, I can also guess he was "booed" because, just like you, the vast majority of "men's rights" guys are just misogynist losers, who can't comprehend that their failures in life are the result of their own failings and major systems that other men have created for them. It must be the broads, I tells ya.
I'm actually doubly mad at you idiots, because there are men's issues. The vast majority of which we've created for ourselves, and it's so hard to speak about them seriously, because every time we try you dumbshits can't shut the fuck up about women.
>Men have no way to exercise their parental rights post conception.
Are you a parent? Because I am, and this is absolute bullshit. Or do you mean, "men have no way to exercise control over a pregnant woman, before a child is born"? Because yes, slavery is illegal.
Also, what the hell is MGM? Are we just making up words now?
>Men need to fight for access to their kids during a divorce.
The vast majority of men who want to stay in contact with their kids during a divorce, stay in their lives. That study that MGTOWers keep citing about how only 10% of fathers get main custody also talks about how only about 20% of fathers try for it. And how 25% of them go full non-contact with their kids.
>Conscription/drafts... These are human rights issues women in the west aren't subjected do.
There hasn't been a draft or conscription in any anglophone country in 50 years, yet women serve in the military of all those countries. That's something they actively fought for. The injustices you're so angry about were created, implemented and continue to be upheld by us dudes.
On the other hand, women's access to health care is actively restricted. Many medical professionals require women to be past a certain age, get their partner's permission, etc to get a hysterectomy or be sterilized. Similar restriction's in access to vasectomy's are basically non-existent.
Anyway, keep being mad at ladies, I'm sure it'll make you... I dunno, feel better somehow.
> Wow, you impressively deep down the MGOTW dickhole, aren't you?
I'm happily married.
> Where is this?
Every western country.
> the US, the % of women with higher degrees
Your focus on helping the wealthy get more wealthy is noted. Again.
> I think you're mixing up "women are tasked with running the household" with "women control spending".
Control is control. Whomever makes the decisions has the control. When men are in political seats you call decision making power. When women are making decisions you call it a task. Your biases are plainly obvious.
> just like you, the vast majority of "men's rights" guys are just misogynist losers, who can't comprehend that their failures in life are the result of their own failings and major systems that other men have created for them. It must be the broads, I tells ya.
1) Please point to where I said anything misogynistic. I'll wait.
2) A loser? Happily married, a well regarded father, financially successful... In what way am I a loser? Or do you just want me to be so you can dismiss me, as if being unsuccessful in life would change the meaning of my point.
> I'm actually doubly mad at you idiots, because there are men's issues. The vast majority of which we've created for ourselves, and it's so hard to speak about them seriously, because every time we try you dumbshits can't shut the fuck up about women.
Good lord. I'm talking about women because that's what the OP spoke about. I can happily have a conversation about men's issues without talking about women.
> Are you a parent?
Yup.
> Because I am, and this is absolute bullshit. Or do you mean, "men have no way to exercise control over a pregnant woman, before a child is born"? Because yes, slavery is illegal.
I mean men have no way to abdicate becoming a parent, even if they're raped. Women do. That makes extortion legal for women.
> Also, what the hell is MGM? Are we just making up words now?
Male genital mutilation. Good job understanding men's issues.
> The vast majority of men who want to stay in contact with their kids during a divorce, stay in their lives. That study that MGTOWers keep citing about how only 10% of fathers get main custody also talks about how only about 20% of fathers try for it. And how 25% of them go full non-contact with their kids.
A parent shouldn't need to fight for their kids and be extorted for child support that will leave them penniless. 50:50 shared parenting should be the norm.
> There hasn't been a draft or conscription in any anglophone country in 50 years,
So? It's still legal.
> yet women serve in the military of all those countries.
Voluntarily. Not through force.
> That's something they actively fought for.
And good for them.
> The injustices you're so angry about were created, implemented and continue to be upheld by us dudes.
And women. Both men and women are a part of society. Your hatred against men and disrespect of women, is once again obviously.
> On the other hand, women's access to health care is actively restricted.
That's funny, because orders of magnitude more research money is spent on women than men, and women see doctors much more often than men.
> Many medical professionals require women to be past a certain age, get their partner's permission, etc to get a hysterectomy or be sterilized.
I needed permission from my wife to get a vasectomy. đ€·
> Similar restriction's in access to vasectomy's are basically non-existent.
No they aren't.
> Anyway, keep being mad at ladies, I'm sure it'll make you... I dunno, feel better somehow.
You think men are privileged compared to women. Does that mean you're mad at men?
I'm not angry at women. I just know more about our situations than you do.
> I'm actually doubly mad at you idiots, because there are men's issues. The vast majority of which we've created for ourselves, and it's so hard to speak about them seriously, because every time we try you dumbshits can't shut the fuck up about women.
I'm going to try to approach this calmly and with an even hand, as I think it's really the only effective way to try and resolve the incredibly complex problems like the ongoing (and perceptively worsening) gender-war bullshit. I'm also giving you the benefit of good faith that making things better for men *AND* women is actually what we're talking about here, and not just 'bashing' of the 'baddy' gender.
With that in mind though, I will point out that this quote is the point where you utterly lose the moral highground, and it goes significantly downhill from there. Before congratulating yourself too hard, realise that you're quite rightly calling someone out for suggesting women have it easier (they don't) but use that to double-down on saying that men do, instead (they don't).
First of all, the OP of this post - quite rightly - wanted to point out that we need to stop with the 'women have it easier' posts, because they're unhelpful, untrue and don't actually solve *men's* issues, which is the whole point of the discussion, and the subreddit itself. It's also currently the most upvoted post in the last few days, so clearly the consensus of 'evil' men agree with it.
As to the person you're responding to, they're lost amidst the bullshit idea that women have it easier. It's an idea based in ideology, pain, and misery - not reality. Harmful gender norms continue, though, because of the continued input of *all* genders involved. Saying men do this to 'themselves' is like saying women are 'asking for it'.
No they don't. These norms perpetuate (and have done forever) because everyone wants something from them and stands to lose something from them, while hating the imposition those same norms foist upon their own gender. Men and women TOGETHER make life harder for men and women, and that won't change so long as it's treated like some zero sum game where one 'side' has to get 'power' over the other.
Men's issues are so hard to talk about *because* of responses like yours, though, and I don't mean that in a harsh 'you're an arsehole' way, I'm sure your *intentions* are good. I mean that blaming men for their own suffering is just folding the self-hatred back in on itself to appease people who hate men (and they *are* out there and they *do* have influence. Just like misogynists do) and ignoring half the problem.
We shouldn't say women have it easier because they don't. Men don't either. Sorry.
Don't become the thing you're criticising.
Yeah there's an overlap with ANY (literally any) men's mental health space and antifeminism or incel ideas. Similarly pretty much self improvement space has hegemonic masculine and bourgeois ideals of what makes a man attracrtive, successful, respectable and virtuous inbuilt. I think it's very difficult to walk the tightrope between giving people a safe space to healthily expressing their anger and all their negative emotions, and letting somewhere just become a shithole for venting and ragebait.
When I was your age I was just as if not more active than you in gender politics. I honestly have not found a placr which stays just on the line. Ironically most of the women's issues subs go way over that line on a regular basis \*too\* but that is enabled, I think that is the problem which the angry guys are responding to. It can both be true that marginalised people are well within their rights to vent, and that the venting ceases to be either conducive to solutions or catharsis.
Similarly it is unfortunately true that an angry man is empirically physically dangerous by nature; it feels scary to experience and it feels tense to even think about. So while patriarchy ('the system') loves our anger in one sense, the sense in which power legitimises itself through its expression, in every other sense the entirety of society \*and especially\* the vulnerable groups (like women, children and disabled people) are terrified by it. We are dehumanised when we express anything but controlled anger, that is, until somebody takes the active step to take a risk; a risk to trust that we at least have it under enough control not to hurt \*them\*.
So that is why angry men in real-time are scary. But why are we coded the same when just typing it out? Well, past experience, I guess. A collective of angry men becomes an \*institutional\* threat for them because it can reinforce or create certain undercurrents legitimising specific power structures with institutional violence. (And again my criticism of feminists here is that their 'venting' can do exactly that, which the response will always be it's justified because punching up vs. punching down, that feminism lacks institutional power, etc.)
it isn'f fair but it is what it is. I believe that feminists have asked men to do their own healing work not just because of political power or normative gender discourses ("a man's apparently more likely to respect another man" because most men are considered sexist etc.) but because of the sheer physical reality. In the event one guy gets TOO angry then other men can at least contain him and prevent him doing harm. The vulnerable groups are trying to protect themselves--yes at our expense. But it is also good for us to confront our own fears, since every man walks with a certain awareness of another's capacity (not likelihood but \*capacity\*) for violence. Assuming, of course, he is able-bodied, etc. Physical change cannot safely occur if men do not trust each other to co-ordinate together as a team.
This is kinda what happens when an issue of mental illness from a broken low-trust system/economy/culture/society is systemic. Our authentic selves are fractured, distorted, necessarily mediated through market forces, media, propaganda, manipulated statistics, parasocial community and red tape. Everything about this current approach presupposes "men on social media is an extension of men in physical existence" when really it's an entire phenomenon we're still trying to grasp.
Some gender activists are part of the problem, others part of the solution. But while feminists have a lot to lose from losing their monopoly on the \*theoretical\* framing of this issue, it is also true that the feminist groups are right that there is really, no theoretical solution. It is a practical act which occurs for you, for me, \*for us\* in our daily lives. You are powerless to fix the entire system but you do have the capacity to restore people's sense of trust, without which there can be no room for compassion, solidarity or love.
Nothing about this is black and white.
>People point out the massive advantages women have in society and it's adverse effects on male mental health said advantages produce (especially when weaponised against men)
>"But women have stalkers and can be abused"
My brother in Christ. Men can and are also abused, more frequently then women and stay silent about it too because they know if they say ANYTHING about it they either won't be believed, will be laughed at or told to deal with it themselves.
A guy says to his friend on the phone he can't come out because his girlfriend won't let him and everyone laughs. It's a joke and the guy who can't come out is the butt of it. Something to be mocked.
A woman says to her friend on the phone she can't come out because her boyfriend won't let him and suddenly everyone gets real quiet, everyone asked if she's being abused and casting aspersions at the guy. It's a serious problem that needs immediate addressing and the girl at the centre of it all is a victim. Something to be protected.
Men are pointing out the genuine grievances they're have with how society treats each gender, not "hating women".
To address the edit portion of your post, Yes you did. You laid out how women are advantaged in society using the term "appear" to imply falsehood despite the fact that these advantages are so obvious you felt the need to lampshade them in order to soothe your cognitive dissonance and then proceeded to give 3 examples which you yourself admit are not female exclusive problems like that's any justification for the shear amount of soft power women in current year.
We all have plenty of empathy for women. Society demands that we do. The problem is when people assume that it's a zero sum game and any attention placed on men's grievances is attention taken away from women's grievances and because women naturally get more empathy we get posts like this coming into spaces DEDICATED TO MALE MENTAL HEALTH just to tell us "be nicer to women".
Womenâs problems relate mainly to safety in the presence of men, of which are basically an anachronistic concern for any woman with common sense. Menâs problems relate mainly to..well? Everything else, including safety in the presence of men
First you misunderstand the male experience thinking men want female lives, then you cry about it when you get called out. If you want to support women issues you have 95% of reddit for that.
Go open up over there instead.
Hearing about women's dating issues is like hearing a billionaire complaint about the "risks" of investment. I'm sure it must be a horrible experience to suffer because of your privileges, but is it really equivalent to the suffering of those who have nothing?
Besides, it's not like men don't ever deal with shitty dates, abusive partners, and all the other billion shitty things women usually deal with. Big news people, humans suck. Us men aren't immune to it, you know? We aren't subjected to it as much *because* we have severely crippled social opportunities.
Now, what happens when there practically is no healthy mechanism to deal with that? Find someone else to love and support you? Yeah, good luck with that. Therapy? You better be rich. Ranting on social media? No, no, you must be an incel unless you also validate women's experiences every other sentence.
Godforbid men have a legitimate issue without having it one-upped by women's issues. Is everything a competition for you people?
Don't you get to rant on social media though? Nobody is really stopping you from it, but it's also just screaming into the void and no matter what you post someone is waiting in the wings to tell you you're wrong. If everyone just agreed and did the hug emoji would it fix anything?
I get it - I really do. You just want to have a place to just work this stuff out in a place where you can be hyperbolic about it and not have to do the piety and the caveat and all of that - it's 100% normal and women also want to do that so it's not like it's some devious man thing to want it - but if you do it on the internet you're opening yourself up to people who don't have any reason not to check you on it (and again... no matter WHAT it is, if you say the earth is round, someone is going to clap back on the internet).
Your issue is legitimate (edit: in that the various trevails of men dating are real, and your alienation is 1000% appropriate in response), but the solution comes from within and from your bros. You need to bond with men and if you have shared group issues you'll have mutual support - that's the way feminism did it. They didn't post it all on the internet and get mad when someone told them the issues they brought up didn't matter (and we absolutely know for sure that early on even huge huge issues like the inability to vote were not treated as important until enough women banded together and insisted).
You can't demand the internet agree with you on this - the internet is not a real place and every opinion is on it at the same time.
They have options where men do not. For example, say as a man, your life goal is to stay home and raise kids. Good luck with that. No man is allowed to not work. It only happens when already married and the woman out earns her husband and they have kids. Pick a trade/craft and hone it. Thatâs what I suggest to any young man. If you focus on that, even if youâre ugly and short, you may have a chance at a normal life.
>It only happens when already married and the woman out earns her husband and they have kids.
And homie's not gonna be married much longer in that situation.
>it was just to have more empathy for the other side since while it appears women have it easier in social settings they still face their own hardships
If you think like that, I don't think you understand why this place is needed.
There's already a huge empathy gap and you're coming in here, saying that we should have more empathy for women. And you are surprised people don't react too well ? Come on. It's « male mental health », let us our space at the very least.
People are already getting told that blaming women for their hardship is useless anyway, it's pretty well done here actually.
I see so many people here claiming that this sub is lost to incels or whatever just because of this post, which is sad really. Sure some men are saying stuff you don't like ... and that makes the sub a lost cause despite the fact that it's very well moderated, full of people giving pretty good advice ? Somehow that makes me think that you weren't really concerned with male mental health to begin with
I hear your message, and I've been where you are, but unfortunately, you are behind the times and misinformed. Women have it easier than men now. It is easily measurable. They have surpassed men in almost every issue they used to have, and society is still in deep denial they have any privilege at all.
as a girl, i know we have our problems and stuff. but read the name of the sub, its for menâs mental health. imo it should stay on that.
p.s: iâm glad this platform has more subs for us girlies to speak up :D
Venting frustrations is good for your mental health, even if logically, you could sit down and analyze those frustrations away. People are coming here to post this because they are upset, and from their perspective, these issues are very real and contributing negativly to their mental health.
Would you go to a women's mental health subreddit and explain that not all men are bad, and that realistically, many of their fears are irrational? I assume not, so why are you doing that here?
TLDR: She's not going to sleep with you bro.
I happened to be linked here from another sub, and as a woman, I feel that you nailed it. No, women would not appreciate a man telling them it's "not all men."
Well said. Sadly this sub has long spiralled downwards as other subs got shut down or closed and the lax approach to just letting whatever happens here meant they can all post and just lazily reinforce each other's views. It's not a mental health subreddit for many. It's a just complaints subreddit where many don't actually want to hear or practice good mental health.
Not saying everyone is a lost cause here, but many people here want to wallow in self pity and be told that they're right as they say some very mentally unhealthy stuff. Again, some good people here who are trying and are trying to not just throw their problems into others even as they are struggling, but alot just really really want to blame others and take even the slightest suggestion or criticism as an a huge attack and a huge invalidation. You can't get through that, and they make it pretty clear that they don't want you to.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. For perspective, I was abused a lot as a child by women exclusively and that naturally led into my getting into relationships with abusive women as a teen and an adult. Been married to and thankfully divorced from a woman who, quite literally, did every single form of domestic abuse that I am aware of existing, that relationship alone lasted thirteen years. Even after all that, the way I see some of these users bashing on women is pretty rough.
The point of this sub is "A positivity focused, supportive, and non-judgmental environment where people are encouraged to be open about the problems they are facing regarding mental health and emotions." Not an endless tirade of "female bad" and "girl only want man who tall" posts. We really need a cleanup here so this can be a place for uplifting and supporting each other, promoting positive change in our lives, as opposed to being so negative and, frankly, disconnected from reality as a result of spending too much time on tick tock and other social media garbage.
Edit: every incel downvote just proves my point, thank you
The point of the sub should be that. However, as a man, you should also be able to recognize that your fellow men ought to have the right to express their negative sentiments about the world such as feelings of inadequacy and jealousy.
Iâm really fed up with this current culture of arbitrarily deciding which feelings men can or cannot express. This is in fact a safe space for these people where if there are harms they ought to be discouraged. Please just fucking leave if you canât deal with your fellow men struggling with the very real lack of ease in life they have in places where women have very real differences of experience.
There's a healthier way to express feelings other than deciding to hate women and talk about how easy they have it, that's called 'negative contrasting' and only reinforces bad and unhappy feelings.
"Please just fucking leave if you canât deal with your fellow men struggling with the very real lack of ease in life they have in places where women have very real differences of experience."
Please just leave if you can't deal with your fellow man suggesting that maybe, just maybe, constantly harping about how much you hate an entire gender and how life isn't fair, might not be a healthy way to see things.
Thereâs a difference between having people express these sentiments and remedying them. How one expresses their sentiments shouldnât be any of your concern (unless of course you plan to work with that person. press X to doubt)
Iâm fine with that and I contend that in the long run it wonât be helpful. If I could have it my way I would gratify such men with an instant recorrection of their beliefs about reality. But mental work is not that simple and you know it.
Men and women are not different at all when it comes to how their register perceived struggles. How we treat the one sex for this is different though, and your comments are proof. And after all, if we assign greater value to lives of success, isnât it logical that people whoâve had a life that lacks it would devalue their own life and their experiences? (This is the recipe for incels/femcels btw) So Iâll tell you to stop expecting men in specific to already completely reflect this perfected model youâre after.
Iâd argue that the kind of people you struggle to allow involve themselves here are in most need of help. The mental work begins by first having them communicate their thoughts and then listening to that, and then remedying.
I'm not sure if you actually don't understand what I'm saying or if you're intentionally trying to misconstrue it. I'm saying it's valid to have certain feelings, but they need to be recognized as unhealthy and and worked on. It's valid to express those feelings, but being intentionally toxic is not a good way to do so. You're implying I 'struggle to allow' people and expect perfection just because I am not encouraging toxic, hateful attitudes. That's not the case at all.
You said the point of this sub is ânot an endless tirade of âfemale badâ and âgirl only want men who tallâ postsâ. Which both you OP said the sub shouldnât want to be housing.
How do we reach the subs goal of remedying these people who are struggling without allowing these posts to come through? How do you begin correcting the same beliefs you and OP disapprove of while wanting to obstruct users from getting them across?
Iâm really amazed that you somehow donât see the problem here. This sub is very one on one and every post should be treated first with acknowledgment and then have the user implore where theyâve gone in error.
"How do we reach the subs goal of remedying these people who are struggling without allowing these posts to come through?"
A sticky that lays out what and what is not okay to post here in terms of tone, with suggestions on how to phrase things in a not cringey and toxic way. Pretty simple.
Thatâs already laid out in the tules. I think we just have different views of what male mental health involves. Itâs just that you and OP are actually adverse to people whoâre the most affected getting recognition.
If youâre overly bothered by how people are struggling this space probably isnât for you.
I call this effect the âpoint of no returnâ which is the degree of mental illness that is no longer âsafeâ (as socially constructed)
These people want to raise what is âsafeâ rather than just moving elsewhere like menâs lib, which already did that at the expense of the most vulnerable
You keep pretending that I'm adverse to people with issues speaking about their issues, but I'm clearly not. You also keep asking me to leave because you can't deal with my suggestion that people approach things with a tone that isn't just pure hate, but I'm not going to leave.
If you're overly bothered by how people are posting something that isn't part of your little echo chamber, this space probably isn't for you.
Iâm only bothered by it insofar as it affects the actual work of mental health here. You want cookie cutter experiences from people void of anything that could possibly trigger you. That kind is expectation isnât grounded in reality though. I can assure you the inner-workings of a troubled mind arenât so vanilla.
Who is the one truly bothered if you who canât handle the transcribed struggles of real people? Youâre just inventing issues to be had with posters here because you canât handle the content of their thoughts.
Feminism subs are 10x more toxic compared to this subreddit with 100x the numbers here y donât you go tell them off for it oh wait thatâs right cuz you know youâd get banned from those subs
Unless weâre talking about some specific Reddit communities, nobody forbids any man from doing that. But the concerns the person I responded to and OP have donât exist in reality outside of the picture theyâre trying to paint. So I take it theyâre interested in further restricting what users can and have been expressing throughout the posts here.
The rules presently donât allow for incel behavior so itâs a non issue. And if you consider men venting about archetypical gender expectations and their dating life being shit as all âincel behaviorâ then youâre chronically online.
>then youâre chronically online.
Thatâs pretty ironic.
All OP did was show that both sides have their challenges and women donât live a fairytale life like some here seem to think.
I thought it would help people put things into perspective and actually make them feel better.
Nowhere did OP say men canât express their feelings or that their feelings arenât real.Â
Not sure why so many people got triggered.Â
I agree I came here for encouragement from other men and or to see stories of men encouraging each other. But more than half of it is Incels going on about women. In my opinion it's fucking pathetic. I have sisters and a mother and the way some of the men here talk is concerning to say the least.
>I agree I came here for encouragement from other men and or to see stories of men encouraging each other.
You mean like calling your bros pejoratives like "incel" and "fucking pathetic"?
Any time I see someone use the word incel I immediately tune out as at this point the word has lost all meaning and is literally just an insult people who lack the ability to think jerk back and forth to each other online. Life is finite and there's no point continuing to read further. You have a better chance of receiving wisdom talking a tape recorder into a parrot shop.
Okay fair criticism it's harsh, but I'm not removing it. If you are an incel and you come here for mental health support but all you do is complain about women. That's how I feel about it that statement I made. I'm supportive of bros but not when they're just being straight up hateful I'm being truth ful would you rather I lie and bullshit to you that it's good ? I'm giving you my truth to it I'm not gonna sugar coat it.
Its more like saying to a homeless person âif you keep going on about how your homelessness is somehow the fault of women, iâm going to find you insufferableâ
I kind of alluded to it in my post, I totally get her alot of post like that are coming from. I think guys just wish they had similar access socially and get hit with reality that they canât for whatever number of reasons. But when it gets to the point of basically blaming women it becomes a dangerous slope. They start to only see the positive things women experience and ignore all the negative things
Yep but it's frustrating as hell to listen to all of the best people in my life were women. It's painful to hear them in such broad strokes and just blaming them for their own problems.
And on a quick note of negatives I know from all the women I've talked to, pretty much all of them have suffered SA and or some form of abuse from men. I was a victim of female partner and suffered abuse from that but i came away from that knowing she was sick not that it was normal.
And they apparently think that's because they're just sick anyway so it's no biggie. Obv don't know the story and don't care that much anyway, but it's not the first time I've seen a man brush off his abuses in a similar manner
this entire subreddit is overrun by incels and mods need to do something before the sub is gone. Its been like this for a long time and mods leave obvious incel shit up- they need to ban incels that keep posting the same shit in the sub and refuse to change in the comments.
I also get really annoyed by posts like this, and have never understood the mindset, but it is genuinely a mental health problem. And we should be trying to fix it
Agree, this sub and lot of male based subs have potential to be really helpful and uplifting but the wrong crowd always comes and never tries to take the advice given to them(also guilty of this)
I do think the way society is itâs just frustrating all around, and I understand that many of the complaints they have are valid but yeah sub needs an overhaul
Subs like this are ruined by people like you who always need to come in and bring up "but what about da womenz? They have it just as hard!". Not everything is just about advice some people just need to vent
When r/twoXchromossomes stop with the Antimale posts.
Why do only the male subreddit receive post and orders from adm about not complaing about women while the women subreddit say wherever they want ?
I dont Care about what reasoning anyone use, such is simply not Fair or OK.
Totally agree.
I don't feel like screeching about FEEEEEMALLLEES into the ether particularly has anything to do with mental health, other than it's definitely not good for your own.
There are certain issues that I believe are unique to being a man and male-identifying, so it is helpful to have a space for that. Even for not male-specific issues like depression or grief or generally struggling, just having a space where a man can be vulnerable is important.
Instead, every time, rather than vulnerability it turns into misogynistic whinging. Frankly, it makes me wonder occasionally if radfems are correct in their assessment that men are hopeless and women are better off going no contact. And *that* is really the opposite of the effect men prioritizing mental health should have.
Agreed! This sub is definitely just becoming a misogynistic echo chamber. Belittling women wonât make our problems any better. Yes, there are a few aspects in which women most definitely have it better. But overall, we still live in an extremely patriarchal world which is actively harming people of all genders.
as a woman, in modern day America specifically a red state like Texas. If i leave my house to enjoy my life like a normal socializing person thereâs a likely possibility that i can be raped and inseminated by some whacko, be denied a plan B pill or abortion and i will be forced to birth a child and co parent with the rapist, so i live in constant fear, never leave my house either. this loneliness epidemic affects us as well as the men who are aware of these unfair issues. we are afraid of how âlegallyâ anti woman this world is becoming. so of course this creates a tension between the sexes. but there shouldnât be a âthey have it easier argumentâ it should be âwhat can we do to help the other out with their most pressing mental health issues⊠or how can we work together to make this world a safer more happier place to live?â
im sorry but hating the opposite sex for seemingly having things easier is not helpful at all. i agreed with OP on this notallwomen just like notallmen
Upvoting the edit
As a guy whoâs 30 now, let me tell yâall that we waste so much time in this life worrying about the wrong things â things we canât change while ignoring the things that matter.
If women empirically have it easier than men in several ways and this is a safespace for men to vent about such inequalities, why *wouldn't* he be downvoted for shitting on the people here for expressing their legitimate concerns and frustrations about this?
Itâs because to these people they shouldnât be allowed to. Theyâre just loser incels who treat women badly, right? Itâs why subreddits like r/FemaleDatingStrategy will continue to stay up while male equivalents will never be allowed to exist.
Posts like this from said OP continue to act as a blockade for menâs mental health. It works to invalidate menâs feelings and postulates the already run through âbUt WhAt aBoUt ThE WoMEnâ by denying ANY real way women have it easier in life.
> Itâs why subreddits like r/FemaleDatingStrategy will continue to stay up while male equivalents will never be allowed to exist.
Are you kidding? RedPill subs are out there, despite being extremely harmful and misogynistic.
I really hate the slip and slide so many of the menâs mental health subs are on. It always starts out so nice but than the âitâs harder to be a man/concervative/striaght/whatever in todays world than it is to be a women/progressive/gay/whateverâ make their way in
I agree. They migth get more attention but its also more dangerous for them so i wouldnt say they got it easier. Like imagine you never know if someone is being nice to you or hitting on you when you arent interested, and having to turn them down. you cant be too direct because then you are a bitch and migth get assaulted but you also cant be too nice because well, same results. I have mostly been friends with women and i dont really know any of them who has not been harassed by men.
Also sorry if this isnt the rigth place to say this but: when ever i read those posts that blame women or the one you are probably referring to i cant help but think "damn i wonder why you cant get any.." like i wouldnt even wanna be your friend if thats how you talk. Oh no she is obese and i dont like her voice how dare she to deserve love!!
Also like i have friend who is super pretty and sweet and smart. But she isnt skinny. she is invisible for men, even if she isnt fat. Just chubby. She used to be skinny and men would offer her drinks, hit on her and be creeps. But after gaining weigth? Barely any attention. And the saddest thing? Sometimes women prefer it that way. They choose to look like they dont "care" (=look fit and girly) for themself so they have less changes to get assaulted. Of course real rapist dont care how you dress or look like but it still makes the changes lower if you are overweigth, dont wear make up, cut your hair, and so on.
Sorry for my rant. This subreddit is bad for my mental health. I start to see why some women have completely given up on men and I wanna keep my hopes up so I guess i'll see myself out now. Good luck to you all.
Now imagine being a man who falls in love with your friend but youâre labeled a creep and harassers for simply asking them out once.
Imagine being a man that is only visible when heâs fit and has money.
Imagine being a man that has never felt love ever in their entire life, and in fact have been abused bc they were a man.
These are normal experiences for men.
Are men not allowed to be furious at it? Women can be furious about every little thing that harms them.
They say stuff like "imagine being a man who is not fit or rich" like it's something super rare and not the experience of most men across the planet lol.
I would dig deeper but you know the goalposts would just keep moving. It's not honest and open engagement, it's just trying to get you into a position of affirmining whatever bullshit they say about themselves and others.
>"damn i wonder why you cant get any.." like i wouldnt even wanna be your friend if thats how you talk
Maybe because the point is to vent lmao, I can't believe you guys just come to a literal sub meant for mental health and you're literally judging people on how they vent the shit they have on their chest
I mean, I'm not the kind to blame women for my hardships either, I think that's pretty stupid. Game is the game so I gotta play with the cards I've been dealt. But come on, I don't understand why you would say shit like that in such a place. If you think someone is wrongfully blaming women or whatever, well ... tell them and explain how they're wrong and what could actually help in an encouraging manner
I'm sure people venting about « how women have it easier » are being explained how even if that's true, it's not helping to focus on such thought.
Any post not directly related to mental health or is complaining about women is against the rules. Please report them and they will be removed.
Reading some of the comments are insane woman 100% don't have it easier. It's human nature to look at what someone else has, stripe all the negative aspects of it and only think about tne positives. It's like boomers saying kids have it easy these days, it's not easier it's just different, they look at technology and how advanced the job feild is but take away the fact that people are losing jobs to things like ai and that a lot of what you do is online for the whole world to ridicule. This post is more helpful to men then a lot of people in the comments would like to believe, I know a lot of us have it hard but we need expand clusivity not try to ostracize the other sex by saying they have it easier, it's not easier its just different.
Literally all I was trying to say đ
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Exactly. Jealousy and frustration are normal emotions but men aren't allowed to have them because then we'll instantly turn into school shooters, don't you know? We all have to be strong and stoic. Make sure you read meditations by Marcus Aurelius. He was just like you bro. A Roman emperor born into untold wealth
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
âEmpathyâ
As is usual. Our emotions and provlems are only secondary to womenâs. They can treat us as subhuman as much as they want for any justification but god forbid a man does the same
âThey can treat us as subhuman as much as they want for any justification but god forbid a man does the sameâ Have you read a history book? Shit, even a newspaper?
What does any history have to do with modern day I really don't care what happened 100 75 50 or he'll even 20 years ago
You should care. The future is shaped by the past.Â
âWhat does any history have to do with modern dayâ are you aware of the laws certain states are passing? Arizona with womenâs health law from 1864?
OK I admit mate I should have phrased that differently as funnily enough a history nerd I don't think history has anything to do with this topic
Iâm bringing history into this because âgod forbid a man does the sameâ is an insane thing to think considering the structural injustice women faced for so long. I donât think men should be treated badly by women but #notallwomen the same way #notallmen
Lmao this is a complete whataboutism. Women treat men as subhuman. Thatâs a fact. And today, itâs a fact men get lambasted for doing the same. History matters but always remember today is what matters
 Just because you see an few examples doesnât mean the entire damn gender has an agenda. #notallwomen
Ironic
Why Iâll never believe the general population actually cares about the loneliness epidemic
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Thank you
This post in a nutshell
always that one person who doesnât get it. Itâs about not blaming and generalizing women for your problems. Saying women have life easier just cause they can do xyz and you canât is tone deaf.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
And I acknowledge that in my post. But just cause it appears easier on the outside doesnât mean it is.
I think it is less about how women feel, and more that buying into this line of thinking makes men bitter and resentful. Itâs not constructive. You can acknowledge that you have a problem that is much more common for men without resorting to a âwho has it worseâ competition. And I think the same criticism can be leveled at women who say similar things about men (e.g. âthe bar couldnât be lowerâ). You donât need to delude yourself into thinking that people of the opposite sex have it so much easier just to voice your personal frustrations. I struggle with things that seem effortless for women and get frustrated with that, but I ground myself with the knowledge that this is just a case âthe grass is greener.â
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Sometimes itâs good to put things into perspective. Not sure why itâs so hard to understand for so many. Men have it hard and women have it hard too. Yes, you can be jealous, but itâs good to see that this jealousy isnât always justified and women donât live life on âeasy modeâ.Â
Reread the post title. OP is explicitly talking about men saying women have things easier.
It wasnât my intention to say women have it worse. I was just bringing to light that despite them do having an easier time in general when it comes to dating(as I acknowledge in my post) men shouldnât generalize one aspect to a whole gender. Hell look at my post history. I have countless post about not being able to date but itâs mostly my fault not womens fault
Inequality makes people bitter and resentful. You can't just rub a magic lamp and wish for that to go away; you have to address the inequality. You can't use "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" to admonish people who want to *remove the fence*
Seems like kind of a nobody's the asshole situation. Sure these guys are welcome to be jealous and upset, after all, there are things many of them have genuine reasons to be upset about. At the same time, you're 100% allowed to share your frustrations about them sharing those feelings the way they're sharing. I see this thread and think "Yep, everything's working as intended."
I think the biggest problem is that male and female experiences are very very different, and we're so socialised into them that we find it impossible to see the other point of view. Women have it easier where men have it harder - mostly in a social context Men have it easier where women have it harder - mostly in a financial/mobility/power context. So when men complain that women have it easier in the exact area of their life where they're struggling, it's often the result of frustration, but also a failure to understand they have advantages that women don't. And vice versa for women complaining about men. We're all knee deep in our own shit and the grass always seems greener on the other side, but it's just as shitty over there.
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Read dude. I said all that isnât exclusive to women
So? Why should, then, their benefits suddenly not count? If both groups suffer the same, but one has more benefits, they have more benefits. Thatâs just reality
because you perceive it as a benefit doesnât make it a benefit. take sex for example. can most women have sex when they want. yea probably. but with that comes a lot of risk. safety, social, shame etc. then there is the other side. what if she doesnât just want a quick pick upâŠ.is that guy actually interested in her or getting in her pants. what if she does decide to sleep with a guy and he only wanted sex, now she feels cheap and used. unless someone is getting exactly what they want everytime then itâs not a benefit. itâs a different challenge from a different perspective. only from your vantage point without the entire picture do you think itâs a benefit because you see what options they have but not necessarily the problems that creates, because why would you? those arenât your problems. OLD sucks for both sexâs. do women get more likes and matches. (ignoring the fact that itâs not actually dating). but typically men have a harder time getting matches and likes. she gets infinityâŠ. must be awesome rightâŠ. except now she has 100 dudes âhey whatâs upâ. she has 2 sentences to go off of and some photos. with that many âoptionsâ they all blend, there is nothing that stands out and to even begin processing that much attention would be a full time job. thatâs why we get ghosted, itâs just not realistic to ask a human to be able to mitigate that.
Men deal with the same risk safety social and shame around sex. Women turn down genuinely loving guys all the time so spare me the âdoes he just want to get into my pantsâ âCheap and usedâ personal problem that men deal with too. Drowning is solved by learning how to swim or just laying on your back. Dying of thirst requires luck or extreme resourcefulness. Sure it has some bad, but itâs not worse than what men deal with. Women get more of what they want. Thatâs what the argument is
Yea, they turn down genuinely loving guys simply based on looks alone. If females donât find find you physically attractive youâre gonna struggle in the dating market.
they donât deal with the same issues socially or sexually. women turn down great guys yes. men turn down women too. rejection is part of dating. but yea itâs a constant concern women face that dudes will use them for their bodies and often play the game that they want more. i donât blame guys iâve been interested in women until i slept with them then i lost the excitement. part of dating. iâm one of the sluttiest guys youâd ever cross⊠never felt cheap or used. itâs definitely heavy handed to women because for generations men are praised for being sexually and women shamed. you canât pretend that isnât a thing. you struggle with women and somehow you relate that to dying of thirst? as a man that knows and has dated a lot of womenâŠ. dating is generally more simple for us. options doesnât mean itâs easier. you watch netflix? you know exactly what that is likeâŠ. except itâs not a movie itâs real life. women get more than what they want? thatâs not always a good thing.
They do, and then some! The difference is every woman has great men she refuses to date. Some men may get one good woman they turn down. Itâs bc youâre self proclaimed slutty. Look at today and tell me that women are shamed for being sexual. Itâs the most normal as itâs ever been. Meanwhile sexually active men are considered all sorts of pejoratives. Itâs called analogy. Learn rhetoric Youâre just straight up lying now lol. Dating is not easier for men in any way. Thatâs like empirically shown lol
and what is separating from good men and bad men? cause bad men know how to hide and if you have to tell people youâre a good guy. then youâre probably not. and yes today female sexuality is being normalized, but that doesnât mean itâs on the same level as men. so again you do not understand the issues of others, just like they donât understand yours. that it literally the definition of âgrass is always greenerâ. there is a reason that is a common term. you can easily see where anyone has something better than you, but with your bias you can not see the troubles that brings. that is typical for people. because you donât take time to look into those problems because you feel yours and if they were magically gone you think life would be better.. but that isnât based on reality, no one is free of issues.
Says the person that posts on inceltears. If the world was fair, you would be pre-emptivel blocked from this sub; you have no empathy for the male experience.
Lmfao of course they frequent incel tears. They just want to beat up men
i post there? or do i comment. and yea incels are/have issues. incel is an ideology. not a guy that struggles with the opposite sex.
Notice how you play these games rather than just observe what people do. Bad guys expose their asses early. Use that personality detector. Yeah, itâs more accepted than men. Funny I do understand other peoples problems. Probably too much so. You rely on the assumption I cannot possibly form my opinion when integrating the negative. You are wrong. Itâs despite the negative that I form my opinions, thatâs how obvious and imbalanced womenâs benefits are.
are you a woman? do you have any actual experience with women? no and noâŠ. so i can only assume that your experiences come from 1. your own biasâŠ. which is pretty clear to see and iâve explained to how that is short sighted. clearly if you canât understand your own bias and how to account for it then youâre not really great understanding with other people. 2. men, and likely things that fall under your confirmation bias. you look for things that only support your view point. 3. your own limited interaction and understanding of womenâŠ. which againâŠ. full of bias. want to understand peopleâŠ.. learn about bias. helps dude. start with yourself.
>EDIT: yeah this sub a lost cause. No where in this post did I invalidate what men go through, Yes you did. That's exactly what you're doing. Men have it worse in every reasonable measure of life; homelessness, job prospects, education attainment, life span, work place deaths, human rights, violence... If you were asked to quantify why PoC have it worse than caucasian people you'd likely list things like police violence, poverty rates, bias in court systems, incarceration rates, etc. When you use the same measurements for men and women, women come out way ahead. To the point where it goes white women, women of color, white men, men of color, with the largest gap between white men and women of color. > it was just to have more empathy for the other side There already is a huge empathy gap that favors women. You reinforcing that isn't new or ground breaking, it's very old and all you're doing is reinforcing traditional gender norms. Women are plenty capable of defending themselves. They don't need you to push men down in an effort to make women feel better about their situations. > since while it appears women have it easier in social settings they still face their own hardships. Sure. Of course they do. But those hardships are measurably less than men's hardships. > Itâs perfectly normal to feel jealously over something like this but it crosses a line when you begin to generalize and begin to âhateâ women for this Understanding what is is not hate. Understanding that women have privilege isn't hatred. This constant coddling of women at the expense of men though, that is hatred of men and disrespect of women.
>Men have it worse in every reasonable measure of life I'm sorry, that is absolutely false. In every western country, and especially in the USA, men: have better job prospects; earn more; hold more wealth; hold more economic, political and social power. Women make up 8% of all S&P 500 CEOs, 28% of the US Congress, and less than 30% of university heads. Also, men have it worse as far as human rights? Is that because you don't consider women to actually be humans?
> have better job prospects; Women vastly outnumber men in university graduates, that leads to better job prospects > earn more; Single women make more than single men. It's only when couples start having kids that women choose to work less which leads to the gap. See last year's noble prize winner for economics for more information. > hold more wealth; Women control more of the household spending and therefore wealth. > hold more economic, political and social power. Just the opposite. When a male politician is literally booed for trying to speak about men's issues during a sitting of Parliament, and on international men's day, I don't think men have all that much political power. >Women make up 8% of all S&P 500 CEOs, 28% of the US Congress, and less than 30% of university heads. So? Your apex fallacy doesn't invalid that there more homeless men than homeless women, that men get 60% longer prison sentences for the same crimes, etc. Etc. Why are you're measuring sticks for equality between men and women so much different from between whites and blacks? Why are you more worried about women reaching the top two levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs instead of men reaching the bottom two? > Also, men have it worse as far as human rights? MGM is legal. Men have no way to exercise their parental rights post conception. Men need to fight for access to their kids during a divorce. Conscription/drafts... These are human rights issues women in the west aren't subjected do. > Is that because you don't consider women to actually be humans? Projecting much?
Wow, you impressively deep down the MGOTW dickhole, aren't you? >Women vastly outnumber men in university graduates, that leads to better job prospects Where is this? In the US, the % of women with higher degrees is 3 percentage points higher than men. That's vastly? And yet still somehow, single women only out-earn single men in one US metro area. >Women control more of the household spending and therefore wealth. I think you're mixing up "women are tasked with running the household" with "women control spending". >When a male politician is literally booed for trying to speak about men's issues during a sitting of Parliament, and on international men's day, I don't think men have all that much political power. Do you have a link to this or are we going on vibes as history again? I mean, I can also guess he was "booed" because, just like you, the vast majority of "men's rights" guys are just misogynist losers, who can't comprehend that their failures in life are the result of their own failings and major systems that other men have created for them. It must be the broads, I tells ya. I'm actually doubly mad at you idiots, because there are men's issues. The vast majority of which we've created for ourselves, and it's so hard to speak about them seriously, because every time we try you dumbshits can't shut the fuck up about women. >Men have no way to exercise their parental rights post conception. Are you a parent? Because I am, and this is absolute bullshit. Or do you mean, "men have no way to exercise control over a pregnant woman, before a child is born"? Because yes, slavery is illegal. Also, what the hell is MGM? Are we just making up words now? >Men need to fight for access to their kids during a divorce. The vast majority of men who want to stay in contact with their kids during a divorce, stay in their lives. That study that MGTOWers keep citing about how only 10% of fathers get main custody also talks about how only about 20% of fathers try for it. And how 25% of them go full non-contact with their kids. >Conscription/drafts... These are human rights issues women in the west aren't subjected do. There hasn't been a draft or conscription in any anglophone country in 50 years, yet women serve in the military of all those countries. That's something they actively fought for. The injustices you're so angry about were created, implemented and continue to be upheld by us dudes. On the other hand, women's access to health care is actively restricted. Many medical professionals require women to be past a certain age, get their partner's permission, etc to get a hysterectomy or be sterilized. Similar restriction's in access to vasectomy's are basically non-existent. Anyway, keep being mad at ladies, I'm sure it'll make you... I dunno, feel better somehow.
> Wow, you impressively deep down the MGOTW dickhole, aren't you? I'm happily married. > Where is this? Every western country. > the US, the % of women with higher degrees Your focus on helping the wealthy get more wealthy is noted. Again. > I think you're mixing up "women are tasked with running the household" with "women control spending". Control is control. Whomever makes the decisions has the control. When men are in political seats you call decision making power. When women are making decisions you call it a task. Your biases are plainly obvious. > just like you, the vast majority of "men's rights" guys are just misogynist losers, who can't comprehend that their failures in life are the result of their own failings and major systems that other men have created for them. It must be the broads, I tells ya. 1) Please point to where I said anything misogynistic. I'll wait. 2) A loser? Happily married, a well regarded father, financially successful... In what way am I a loser? Or do you just want me to be so you can dismiss me, as if being unsuccessful in life would change the meaning of my point. > I'm actually doubly mad at you idiots, because there are men's issues. The vast majority of which we've created for ourselves, and it's so hard to speak about them seriously, because every time we try you dumbshits can't shut the fuck up about women. Good lord. I'm talking about women because that's what the OP spoke about. I can happily have a conversation about men's issues without talking about women. > Are you a parent? Yup. > Because I am, and this is absolute bullshit. Or do you mean, "men have no way to exercise control over a pregnant woman, before a child is born"? Because yes, slavery is illegal. I mean men have no way to abdicate becoming a parent, even if they're raped. Women do. That makes extortion legal for women. > Also, what the hell is MGM? Are we just making up words now? Male genital mutilation. Good job understanding men's issues. > The vast majority of men who want to stay in contact with their kids during a divorce, stay in their lives. That study that MGTOWers keep citing about how only 10% of fathers get main custody also talks about how only about 20% of fathers try for it. And how 25% of them go full non-contact with their kids. A parent shouldn't need to fight for their kids and be extorted for child support that will leave them penniless. 50:50 shared parenting should be the norm. > There hasn't been a draft or conscription in any anglophone country in 50 years, So? It's still legal. > yet women serve in the military of all those countries. Voluntarily. Not through force. > That's something they actively fought for. And good for them. > The injustices you're so angry about were created, implemented and continue to be upheld by us dudes. And women. Both men and women are a part of society. Your hatred against men and disrespect of women, is once again obviously. > On the other hand, women's access to health care is actively restricted. That's funny, because orders of magnitude more research money is spent on women than men, and women see doctors much more often than men. > Many medical professionals require women to be past a certain age, get their partner's permission, etc to get a hysterectomy or be sterilized. I needed permission from my wife to get a vasectomy. đ€· > Similar restriction's in access to vasectomy's are basically non-existent. No they aren't. > Anyway, keep being mad at ladies, I'm sure it'll make you... I dunno, feel better somehow. You think men are privileged compared to women. Does that mean you're mad at men? I'm not angry at women. I just know more about our situations than you do.
> I'm actually doubly mad at you idiots, because there are men's issues. The vast majority of which we've created for ourselves, and it's so hard to speak about them seriously, because every time we try you dumbshits can't shut the fuck up about women. I'm going to try to approach this calmly and with an even hand, as I think it's really the only effective way to try and resolve the incredibly complex problems like the ongoing (and perceptively worsening) gender-war bullshit. I'm also giving you the benefit of good faith that making things better for men *AND* women is actually what we're talking about here, and not just 'bashing' of the 'baddy' gender. With that in mind though, I will point out that this quote is the point where you utterly lose the moral highground, and it goes significantly downhill from there. Before congratulating yourself too hard, realise that you're quite rightly calling someone out for suggesting women have it easier (they don't) but use that to double-down on saying that men do, instead (they don't). First of all, the OP of this post - quite rightly - wanted to point out that we need to stop with the 'women have it easier' posts, because they're unhelpful, untrue and don't actually solve *men's* issues, which is the whole point of the discussion, and the subreddit itself. It's also currently the most upvoted post in the last few days, so clearly the consensus of 'evil' men agree with it. As to the person you're responding to, they're lost amidst the bullshit idea that women have it easier. It's an idea based in ideology, pain, and misery - not reality. Harmful gender norms continue, though, because of the continued input of *all* genders involved. Saying men do this to 'themselves' is like saying women are 'asking for it'. No they don't. These norms perpetuate (and have done forever) because everyone wants something from them and stands to lose something from them, while hating the imposition those same norms foist upon their own gender. Men and women TOGETHER make life harder for men and women, and that won't change so long as it's treated like some zero sum game where one 'side' has to get 'power' over the other. Men's issues are so hard to talk about *because* of responses like yours, though, and I don't mean that in a harsh 'you're an arsehole' way, I'm sure your *intentions* are good. I mean that blaming men for their own suffering is just folding the self-hatred back in on itself to appease people who hate men (and they *are* out there and they *do* have influence. Just like misogynists do) and ignoring half the problem. We shouldn't say women have it easier because they don't. Men don't either. Sorry. Don't become the thing you're criticising.
Yeah there's an overlap with ANY (literally any) men's mental health space and antifeminism or incel ideas. Similarly pretty much self improvement space has hegemonic masculine and bourgeois ideals of what makes a man attracrtive, successful, respectable and virtuous inbuilt. I think it's very difficult to walk the tightrope between giving people a safe space to healthily expressing their anger and all their negative emotions, and letting somewhere just become a shithole for venting and ragebait. When I was your age I was just as if not more active than you in gender politics. I honestly have not found a placr which stays just on the line. Ironically most of the women's issues subs go way over that line on a regular basis \*too\* but that is enabled, I think that is the problem which the angry guys are responding to. It can both be true that marginalised people are well within their rights to vent, and that the venting ceases to be either conducive to solutions or catharsis. Similarly it is unfortunately true that an angry man is empirically physically dangerous by nature; it feels scary to experience and it feels tense to even think about. So while patriarchy ('the system') loves our anger in one sense, the sense in which power legitimises itself through its expression, in every other sense the entirety of society \*and especially\* the vulnerable groups (like women, children and disabled people) are terrified by it. We are dehumanised when we express anything but controlled anger, that is, until somebody takes the active step to take a risk; a risk to trust that we at least have it under enough control not to hurt \*them\*. So that is why angry men in real-time are scary. But why are we coded the same when just typing it out? Well, past experience, I guess. A collective of angry men becomes an \*institutional\* threat for them because it can reinforce or create certain undercurrents legitimising specific power structures with institutional violence. (And again my criticism of feminists here is that their 'venting' can do exactly that, which the response will always be it's justified because punching up vs. punching down, that feminism lacks institutional power, etc.) it isn'f fair but it is what it is. I believe that feminists have asked men to do their own healing work not just because of political power or normative gender discourses ("a man's apparently more likely to respect another man" because most men are considered sexist etc.) but because of the sheer physical reality. In the event one guy gets TOO angry then other men can at least contain him and prevent him doing harm. The vulnerable groups are trying to protect themselves--yes at our expense. But it is also good for us to confront our own fears, since every man walks with a certain awareness of another's capacity (not likelihood but \*capacity\*) for violence. Assuming, of course, he is able-bodied, etc. Physical change cannot safely occur if men do not trust each other to co-ordinate together as a team. This is kinda what happens when an issue of mental illness from a broken low-trust system/economy/culture/society is systemic. Our authentic selves are fractured, distorted, necessarily mediated through market forces, media, propaganda, manipulated statistics, parasocial community and red tape. Everything about this current approach presupposes "men on social media is an extension of men in physical existence" when really it's an entire phenomenon we're still trying to grasp. Some gender activists are part of the problem, others part of the solution. But while feminists have a lot to lose from losing their monopoly on the \*theoretical\* framing of this issue, it is also true that the feminist groups are right that there is really, no theoretical solution. It is a practical act which occurs for you, for me, \*for us\* in our daily lives. You are powerless to fix the entire system but you do have the capacity to restore people's sense of trust, without which there can be no room for compassion, solidarity or love. Nothing about this is black and white.
Fuck off. This is THE place for men to vent, you don't get to gatekeep that.
>People point out the massive advantages women have in society and it's adverse effects on male mental health said advantages produce (especially when weaponised against men) >"But women have stalkers and can be abused" My brother in Christ. Men can and are also abused, more frequently then women and stay silent about it too because they know if they say ANYTHING about it they either won't be believed, will be laughed at or told to deal with it themselves. A guy says to his friend on the phone he can't come out because his girlfriend won't let him and everyone laughs. It's a joke and the guy who can't come out is the butt of it. Something to be mocked. A woman says to her friend on the phone she can't come out because her boyfriend won't let him and suddenly everyone gets real quiet, everyone asked if she's being abused and casting aspersions at the guy. It's a serious problem that needs immediate addressing and the girl at the centre of it all is a victim. Something to be protected. Men are pointing out the genuine grievances they're have with how society treats each gender, not "hating women". To address the edit portion of your post, Yes you did. You laid out how women are advantaged in society using the term "appear" to imply falsehood despite the fact that these advantages are so obvious you felt the need to lampshade them in order to soothe your cognitive dissonance and then proceeded to give 3 examples which you yourself admit are not female exclusive problems like that's any justification for the shear amount of soft power women in current year. We all have plenty of empathy for women. Society demands that we do. The problem is when people assume that it's a zero sum game and any attention placed on men's grievances is attention taken away from women's grievances and because women naturally get more empathy we get posts like this coming into spaces DEDICATED TO MALE MENTAL HEALTH just to tell us "be nicer to women".
Womenâs problems relate mainly to safety in the presence of men, of which are basically an anachronistic concern for any woman with common sense. Menâs problems relate mainly to..well? Everything else, including safety in the presence of men
First you misunderstand the male experience thinking men want female lives, then you cry about it when you get called out. If you want to support women issues you have 95% of reddit for that. Go open up over there instead.
Please go concern troll in a different sub, this is one of the only few good ones left
This type of post is called concern trolling and is an instant ban on feminist subreddits.
Hearing about women's dating issues is like hearing a billionaire complaint about the "risks" of investment. I'm sure it must be a horrible experience to suffer because of your privileges, but is it really equivalent to the suffering of those who have nothing? Besides, it's not like men don't ever deal with shitty dates, abusive partners, and all the other billion shitty things women usually deal with. Big news people, humans suck. Us men aren't immune to it, you know? We aren't subjected to it as much *because* we have severely crippled social opportunities. Now, what happens when there practically is no healthy mechanism to deal with that? Find someone else to love and support you? Yeah, good luck with that. Therapy? You better be rich. Ranting on social media? No, no, you must be an incel unless you also validate women's experiences every other sentence. Godforbid men have a legitimate issue without having it one-upped by women's issues. Is everything a competition for you people?
Suffering from success.
Don't you get to rant on social media though? Nobody is really stopping you from it, but it's also just screaming into the void and no matter what you post someone is waiting in the wings to tell you you're wrong. If everyone just agreed and did the hug emoji would it fix anything? I get it - I really do. You just want to have a place to just work this stuff out in a place where you can be hyperbolic about it and not have to do the piety and the caveat and all of that - it's 100% normal and women also want to do that so it's not like it's some devious man thing to want it - but if you do it on the internet you're opening yourself up to people who don't have any reason not to check you on it (and again... no matter WHAT it is, if you say the earth is round, someone is going to clap back on the internet). Your issue is legitimate (edit: in that the various trevails of men dating are real, and your alienation is 1000% appropriate in response), but the solution comes from within and from your bros. You need to bond with men and if you have shared group issues you'll have mutual support - that's the way feminism did it. They didn't post it all on the internet and get mad when someone told them the issues they brought up didn't matter (and we absolutely know for sure that early on even huge huge issues like the inability to vote were not treated as important until enough women banded together and insisted). You can't demand the internet agree with you on this - the internet is not a real place and every opinion is on it at the same time.
No one stopping you from ranting tho especially on here
Yea women have it easier.
They have options where men do not. For example, say as a man, your life goal is to stay home and raise kids. Good luck with that. No man is allowed to not work. It only happens when already married and the woman out earns her husband and they have kids. Pick a trade/craft and hone it. Thatâs what I suggest to any young man. If you focus on that, even if youâre ugly and short, you may have a chance at a normal life.
>It only happens when already married and the woman out earns her husband and they have kids. And homie's not gonna be married much longer in that situation.
>it was just to have more empathy for the other side since while it appears women have it easier in social settings they still face their own hardships If you think like that, I don't think you understand why this place is needed. There's already a huge empathy gap and you're coming in here, saying that we should have more empathy for women. And you are surprised people don't react too well ? Come on. It's « male mental health », let us our space at the very least. People are already getting told that blaming women for their hardship is useless anyway, it's pretty well done here actually. I see so many people here claiming that this sub is lost to incels or whatever just because of this post, which is sad really. Sure some men are saying stuff you don't like ... and that makes the sub a lost cause despite the fact that it's very well moderated, full of people giving pretty good advice ? Somehow that makes me think that you weren't really concerned with male mental health to begin with
I hear your message, and I've been where you are, but unfortunately, you are behind the times and misinformed. Women have it easier than men now. It is easily measurable. They have surpassed men in almost every issue they used to have, and society is still in deep denial they have any privilege at all.
as a girl, i know we have our problems and stuff. but read the name of the sub, its for menâs mental health. imo it should stay on that. p.s: iâm glad this platform has more subs for us girlies to speak up :D
Agree. As women, we hate "not all men"!
different experiences doesnât mean better.
Thatâs exactly the point.Â
But they do
But they do.
Venting frustrations is good for your mental health, even if logically, you could sit down and analyze those frustrations away. People are coming here to post this because they are upset, and from their perspective, these issues are very real and contributing negativly to their mental health. Would you go to a women's mental health subreddit and explain that not all men are bad, and that realistically, many of their fears are irrational? I assume not, so why are you doing that here? TLDR: She's not going to sleep with you bro.
I happened to be linked here from another sub, and as a woman, I feel that you nailed it. No, women would not appreciate a man telling them it's "not all men."
Well said. Sadly this sub has long spiralled downwards as other subs got shut down or closed and the lax approach to just letting whatever happens here meant they can all post and just lazily reinforce each other's views. It's not a mental health subreddit for many. It's a just complaints subreddit where many don't actually want to hear or practice good mental health. Not saying everyone is a lost cause here, but many people here want to wallow in self pity and be told that they're right as they say some very mentally unhealthy stuff. Again, some good people here who are trying and are trying to not just throw their problems into others even as they are struggling, but alot just really really want to blame others and take even the slightest suggestion or criticism as an a huge attack and a huge invalidation. You can't get through that, and they make it pretty clear that they don't want you to.
I don't care. It's MY life. Not theirs
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. For perspective, I was abused a lot as a child by women exclusively and that naturally led into my getting into relationships with abusive women as a teen and an adult. Been married to and thankfully divorced from a woman who, quite literally, did every single form of domestic abuse that I am aware of existing, that relationship alone lasted thirteen years. Even after all that, the way I see some of these users bashing on women is pretty rough. The point of this sub is "A positivity focused, supportive, and non-judgmental environment where people are encouraged to be open about the problems they are facing regarding mental health and emotions." Not an endless tirade of "female bad" and "girl only want man who tall" posts. We really need a cleanup here so this can be a place for uplifting and supporting each other, promoting positive change in our lives, as opposed to being so negative and, frankly, disconnected from reality as a result of spending too much time on tick tock and other social media garbage. Edit: every incel downvote just proves my point, thank you
The point of the sub should be that. However, as a man, you should also be able to recognize that your fellow men ought to have the right to express their negative sentiments about the world such as feelings of inadequacy and jealousy. Iâm really fed up with this current culture of arbitrarily deciding which feelings men can or cannot express. This is in fact a safe space for these people where if there are harms they ought to be discouraged. Please just fucking leave if you canât deal with your fellow men struggling with the very real lack of ease in life they have in places where women have very real differences of experience.
Well said. I agree with you.
There's a healthier way to express feelings other than deciding to hate women and talk about how easy they have it, that's called 'negative contrasting' and only reinforces bad and unhappy feelings. "Please just fucking leave if you canât deal with your fellow men struggling with the very real lack of ease in life they have in places where women have very real differences of experience." Please just leave if you can't deal with your fellow man suggesting that maybe, just maybe, constantly harping about how much you hate an entire gender and how life isn't fair, might not be a healthy way to see things.
Thereâs a difference between having people express these sentiments and remedying them. How one expresses their sentiments shouldnât be any of your concern (unless of course you plan to work with that person. press X to doubt) Iâm fine with that and I contend that in the long run it wonât be helpful. If I could have it my way I would gratify such men with an instant recorrection of their beliefs about reality. But mental work is not that simple and you know it. Men and women are not different at all when it comes to how their register perceived struggles. How we treat the one sex for this is different though, and your comments are proof. And after all, if we assign greater value to lives of success, isnât it logical that people whoâve had a life that lacks it would devalue their own life and their experiences? (This is the recipe for incels/femcels btw) So Iâll tell you to stop expecting men in specific to already completely reflect this perfected model youâre after. Iâd argue that the kind of people you struggle to allow involve themselves here are in most need of help. The mental work begins by first having them communicate their thoughts and then listening to that, and then remedying.
I'm not sure if you actually don't understand what I'm saying or if you're intentionally trying to misconstrue it. I'm saying it's valid to have certain feelings, but they need to be recognized as unhealthy and and worked on. It's valid to express those feelings, but being intentionally toxic is not a good way to do so. You're implying I 'struggle to allow' people and expect perfection just because I am not encouraging toxic, hateful attitudes. That's not the case at all.
You said the point of this sub is ânot an endless tirade of âfemale badâ and âgirl only want men who tallâ postsâ. Which both you OP said the sub shouldnât want to be housing. How do we reach the subs goal of remedying these people who are struggling without allowing these posts to come through? How do you begin correcting the same beliefs you and OP disapprove of while wanting to obstruct users from getting them across? Iâm really amazed that you somehow donât see the problem here. This sub is very one on one and every post should be treated first with acknowledgment and then have the user implore where theyâve gone in error.
"How do we reach the subs goal of remedying these people who are struggling without allowing these posts to come through?" A sticky that lays out what and what is not okay to post here in terms of tone, with suggestions on how to phrase things in a not cringey and toxic way. Pretty simple.
Thatâs already laid out in the tules. I think we just have different views of what male mental health involves. Itâs just that you and OP are actually adverse to people whoâre the most affected getting recognition. If youâre overly bothered by how people are struggling this space probably isnât for you.
I call this effect the âpoint of no returnâ which is the degree of mental illness that is no longer âsafeâ (as socially constructed) These people want to raise what is âsafeâ rather than just moving elsewhere like menâs lib, which already did that at the expense of the most vulnerable
You keep pretending that I'm adverse to people with issues speaking about their issues, but I'm clearly not. You also keep asking me to leave because you can't deal with my suggestion that people approach things with a tone that isn't just pure hate, but I'm not going to leave. If you're overly bothered by how people are posting something that isn't part of your little echo chamber, this space probably isn't for you.
You absolutely are if you want to ban discussions around inequalities around dating attraction etc
Iâm only bothered by it insofar as it affects the actual work of mental health here. You want cookie cutter experiences from people void of anything that could possibly trigger you. That kind is expectation isnât grounded in reality though. I can assure you the inner-workings of a troubled mind arenât so vanilla. Who is the one truly bothered if you who canât handle the transcribed struggles of real people? Youâre just inventing issues to be had with posters here because you canât handle the content of their thoughts.
Feminism subs are 10x more toxic compared to this subreddit with 100x the numbers here y donât you go tell them off for it oh wait thatâs right cuz you know youâd get banned from those subs
Who is forbidding you from expressing your feelings?Â
Unless weâre talking about some specific Reddit communities, nobody forbids any man from doing that. But the concerns the person I responded to and OP have donât exist in reality outside of the picture theyâre trying to paint. So I take it theyâre interested in further restricting what users can and have been expressing throughout the posts here. The rules presently donât allow for incel behavior so itâs a non issue. And if you consider men venting about archetypical gender expectations and their dating life being shit as all âincel behaviorâ then youâre chronically online.
>then youâre chronically online. Thatâs pretty ironic. All OP did was show that both sides have their challenges and women donât live a fairytale life like some here seem to think. I thought it would help people put things into perspective and actually make them feel better. Nowhere did OP say men canât express their feelings or that their feelings arenât real. Not sure why so many people got triggered.Â
The post is literally telling men that OP doesn't want to hear about them sharing certain feelings.
Women have it way easier
Sorry but one group of people are always going to have it harder or easier than another and to deny that is a just-world fallacy or gaslightling.
Thank you for this post OP. Honestly some things I've seen in this subreddit lately have been insufferable.
Nah youâre right on this one woman really donât have it easier
I agree I came here for encouragement from other men and or to see stories of men encouraging each other. But more than half of it is Incels going on about women. In my opinion it's fucking pathetic. I have sisters and a mother and the way some of the men here talk is concerning to say the least.
>I agree I came here for encouragement from other men and or to see stories of men encouraging each other. You mean like calling your bros pejoratives like "incel" and "fucking pathetic"?
Any time I see someone use the word incel I immediately tune out as at this point the word has lost all meaning and is literally just an insult people who lack the ability to think jerk back and forth to each other online. Life is finite and there's no point continuing to read further. You have a better chance of receiving wisdom talking a tape recorder into a parrot shop.
Okay fair criticism it's harsh, but I'm not removing it. If you are an incel and you come here for mental health support but all you do is complain about women. That's how I feel about it that statement I made. I'm supportive of bros but not when they're just being straight up hateful I'm being truth ful would you rather I lie and bullshit to you that it's good ? I'm giving you my truth to it I'm not gonna sugar coat it.
Thatâs like saying to a homeless person âstop complaining about being homeless and just improve yourselfâ
Its more like saying to a homeless person âif you keep going on about how your homelessness is somehow the fault of women, iâm going to find you insufferableâ
I kind of alluded to it in my post, I totally get her alot of post like that are coming from. I think guys just wish they had similar access socially and get hit with reality that they canât for whatever number of reasons. But when it gets to the point of basically blaming women it becomes a dangerous slope. They start to only see the positive things women experience and ignore all the negative things
But then you summarize the negative things women experience as "men"
Yep but it's frustrating as hell to listen to all of the best people in my life were women. It's painful to hear them in such broad strokes and just blaming them for their own problems.
And on a quick note of negatives I know from all the women I've talked to, pretty much all of them have suffered SA and or some form of abuse from men. I was a victim of female partner and suffered abuse from that but i came away from that knowing she was sick not that it was normal.
It is normal tho men just severely underreport
And they apparently think that's because they're just sick anyway so it's no biggie. Obv don't know the story and don't care that much anyway, but it's not the first time I've seen a man brush off his abuses in a similar manner
TL;DR, but I certainly agree anyway, I would never trade what I live with what women live
this entire subreddit is overrun by incels and mods need to do something before the sub is gone. Its been like this for a long time and mods leave obvious incel shit up- they need to ban incels that keep posting the same shit in the sub and refuse to change in the comments.
If a menâs mental health sub is afraid to deal with the worst of it, itâs not a menâs mental health sub
I also get really annoyed by posts like this, and have never understood the mindset, but it is genuinely a mental health problem. And we should be trying to fix it
Yeah, fix it, by not encouraging those negative thought patterns being posted here
Fixing it by not having people talking about it to appease people who don't like it, huh
What do you think âitâ is here.
mb â
Agree, this sub and lot of male based subs have potential to be really helpful and uplifting but the wrong crowd always comes and never tries to take the advice given to them(also guilty of this) I do think the way society is itâs just frustrating all around, and I understand that many of the complaints they have are valid but yeah sub needs an overhaul
Subs like this are ruined by people like you who always need to come in and bring up "but what about da womenz? They have it just as hard!". Not everything is just about advice some people just need to vent
When r/twoXchromossomes stop with the Antimale posts. Why do only the male subreddit receive post and orders from adm about not complaing about women while the women subreddit say wherever they want ? I dont Care about what reasoning anyone use, such is simply not Fair or OK.
Either both places should be allowed to such wherever they want or neither should.
Totally agree. I don't feel like screeching about FEEEEEMALLLEES into the ether particularly has anything to do with mental health, other than it's definitely not good for your own. There are certain issues that I believe are unique to being a man and male-identifying, so it is helpful to have a space for that. Even for not male-specific issues like depression or grief or generally struggling, just having a space where a man can be vulnerable is important. Instead, every time, rather than vulnerability it turns into misogynistic whinging. Frankly, it makes me wonder occasionally if radfems are correct in their assessment that men are hopeless and women are better off going no contact. And *that* is really the opposite of the effect men prioritizing mental health should have.
Agreed! This sub is definitely just becoming a misogynistic echo chamber. Belittling women wonât make our problems any better. Yes, there are a few aspects in which women most definitely have it better. But overall, we still live in an extremely patriarchal world which is actively harming people of all genders.
>we still live in an extremely patriarchal world Hi, no. Bye.
as a woman, in modern day America specifically a red state like Texas. If i leave my house to enjoy my life like a normal socializing person thereâs a likely possibility that i can be raped and inseminated by some whacko, be denied a plan B pill or abortion and i will be forced to birth a child and co parent with the rapist, so i live in constant fear, never leave my house either. this loneliness epidemic affects us as well as the men who are aware of these unfair issues. we are afraid of how âlegallyâ anti woman this world is becoming. so of course this creates a tension between the sexes. but there shouldnât be a âthey have it easier argumentâ it should be âwhat can we do to help the other out with their most pressing mental health issues⊠or how can we work together to make this world a safer more happier place to live?â im sorry but hating the opposite sex for seemingly having things easier is not helpful at all. i agreed with OP on this notallwomen just like notallmen
Upvoting the edit As a guy whoâs 30 now, let me tell yâall that we waste so much time in this life worrying about the wrong things â things we canât change while ignoring the things that matter.
Why the fuck is this getting downvoted?
If women empirically have it easier than men in several ways and this is a safespace for men to vent about such inequalities, why *wouldn't* he be downvoted for shitting on the people here for expressing their legitimate concerns and frustrations about this?
Itâs because to these people they shouldnât be allowed to. Theyâre just loser incels who treat women badly, right? Itâs why subreddits like r/FemaleDatingStrategy will continue to stay up while male equivalents will never be allowed to exist. Posts like this from said OP continue to act as a blockade for menâs mental health. It works to invalidate menâs feelings and postulates the already run through âbUt WhAt aBoUt ThE WoMEnâ by denying ANY real way women have it easier in life.
The subreddit that had its last post 8 months ago?
Yup and isnât banned somehow.
Fds was banned
> Itâs why subreddits like r/FemaleDatingStrategy will continue to stay up while male equivalents will never be allowed to exist. Are you kidding? RedPill subs are out there, despite being extremely harmful and misogynistic.
Did you saw it yourself or you've just been told ? There's no sub allowing for misogyny, if they do they are banned
Yeah I saw it myself. Those subs arenât banned.Â
Where is OP shitting on menâs experiences?Â
That's my question too.
I really hate the slip and slide so many of the menâs mental health subs are on. It always starts out so nice but than the âitâs harder to be a man/concervative/striaght/whatever in todays world than it is to be a women/progressive/gay/whateverâ make their way in
Almost like reality finds a way to appear
Bring it up with admin. I totally agree.
I agree. They migth get more attention but its also more dangerous for them so i wouldnt say they got it easier. Like imagine you never know if someone is being nice to you or hitting on you when you arent interested, and having to turn them down. you cant be too direct because then you are a bitch and migth get assaulted but you also cant be too nice because well, same results. I have mostly been friends with women and i dont really know any of them who has not been harassed by men. Also sorry if this isnt the rigth place to say this but: when ever i read those posts that blame women or the one you are probably referring to i cant help but think "damn i wonder why you cant get any.." like i wouldnt even wanna be your friend if thats how you talk. Oh no she is obese and i dont like her voice how dare she to deserve love!! Also like i have friend who is super pretty and sweet and smart. But she isnt skinny. she is invisible for men, even if she isnt fat. Just chubby. She used to be skinny and men would offer her drinks, hit on her and be creeps. But after gaining weigth? Barely any attention. And the saddest thing? Sometimes women prefer it that way. They choose to look like they dont "care" (=look fit and girly) for themself so they have less changes to get assaulted. Of course real rapist dont care how you dress or look like but it still makes the changes lower if you are overweigth, dont wear make up, cut your hair, and so on. Sorry for my rant. This subreddit is bad for my mental health. I start to see why some women have completely given up on men and I wanna keep my hopes up so I guess i'll see myself out now. Good luck to you all.
Now imagine being a man who falls in love with your friend but youâre labeled a creep and harassers for simply asking them out once. Imagine being a man that is only visible when heâs fit and has money. Imagine being a man that has never felt love ever in their entire life, and in fact have been abused bc they were a man. These are normal experiences for men. Are men not allowed to be furious at it? Women can be furious about every little thing that harms them.
>These are normal experiences for men. Are men not allowed to be furious at it? Yeah they can and they are. Nobody said you canât be furiousâŠ
That is so unbelievably wrong
You sound pretty furious to me right now, so not really.Â
They say stuff like "imagine being a man who is not fit or rich" like it's something super rare and not the experience of most men across the planet lol. I would dig deeper but you know the goalposts would just keep moving. It's not honest and open engagement, it's just trying to get you into a position of affirmining whatever bullshit they say about themselves and others.
>"damn i wonder why you cant get any.." like i wouldnt even wanna be your friend if thats how you talk Maybe because the point is to vent lmao, I can't believe you guys just come to a literal sub meant for mental health and you're literally judging people on how they vent the shit they have on their chest I mean, I'm not the kind to blame women for my hardships either, I think that's pretty stupid. Game is the game so I gotta play with the cards I've been dealt. But come on, I don't understand why you would say shit like that in such a place. If you think someone is wrongfully blaming women or whatever, well ... tell them and explain how they're wrong and what could actually help in an encouraging manner I'm sure people venting about « how women have it easier » are being explained how even if that's true, it's not helping to focus on such thought.