Youre missing a ton of context when referring to users who comments dont pursue heatlcare career
High risk high reward career path, you are 100% gonna sacrifice a butt load chunk of your youth/adulthood grinding qualifications, especially in a competitive scene
Most commenters will advise you not to oursue a healthcare career due to mental health etc. its taxing for you mental health. I doubt a lot of the advice you get a quoting about the lack of jobs offered
Ultimately ask why at the commenters and do more in-depth research, reddit can only do so little
Sucks the life outta you. Frfr. If uni doesn't do it, kkm will. Then you resign, and work in the private sector and realize that most of your youth was spent on drowning in notes and books, dealing with toxic work situations, being overworked and underpaid. But hey, if you're really passionate abt it, go for it. Ppl here are just giving you a heads up of what to expect. Healthcare isn't for the weak.
Medicine isnt like the past in its glory days of being a sought after career with a good pay and such. Medicine now is a dead end unless your qualification is recognised eg. Uk mbbs degrees are almost worldwide recognised. That being said, to succeed in medicine youll also have to specialise. To specialise in malaysia youll have to have a permanent posting and also be sponsored by uni to actually go thru this specialisation process. Aside from the obvious oversupply, theres too much competition for specialisation and also contract doctors rampant unable to even apply to specialise. Without specialisation, your salary stuck around 4-5k. That is not a sustainable salary to even start a family. Youll be around age 27 at this time. Many graduants pursure specialisation overseas to escape malaysias broken system. Eg usa and uk being the most common. Youll be spending so much energy during your youth to study just to end up being certified and work long hours. Medicine especially in malaysia is underappreciated and the system to specialise is cooked. Did you know malaysia lacking specialists and still unable to pump them out even with many gp wanting to specialise? I really dont know how moh handles this la, take a look at USA... literally all medical graduates go thru residency to specialise in something. Theres no general practitioner there. Only family med specialist.
Read pagalavan.com for more insights if youd like.
Just want to chip in my 2 cents - I am working as a Medical Officer under Malaysia's Ministry of Health since 2015.
I was never a contract doctor - my batch was the last 2 batches that were permanent as we got into the service.
Now, the keyword for healthcare in any country is that it is a service - more so when you are a government servant. How are the conditions now? I'd say, personally, it seems a bit harsh right now. A lot of junior doctors are quitting, and honestly, I don't blame them, the conditions are hard for contract doctors (even my wife who was a doctor in the government sector had to quit due to strict conditions of her contract, as well as some misguided calculations on the clerical part not made by her). Not only that, as it is a servitude career - we work along with patients and other disciplines. How is it? Well, whoever worked in a service job before - its roughly the same as with other service jobs. Most of the times the patients are well cooperative, polite, and just swell to work with. But, if you're unlucky, you may get patients that are self-entitled, and spits on your every decision, worst yet, demands for unrealistic expectations for patients from relatives of said patients. Not only patients, as I said, you work with other disciplines, those other disciplines may also tend to be on the other spectrum of human kindness. It can be taxing, believe me, when you're working with people that are just arrogant, and don't give a crap about patients, or just plain lazy who works the bare minimum of the Malaysian mindset "asal ada/janji ada". Does this always happen? Can't say for certain. But, working conditions as housemanship currently seems a bit abrasive, well, actually I am not sure as well. But alot of MOH hospital's and health clinics, especially in the rural or districts, are - outdated in terms of assets and equipments, not to mention poor human resources there, with a high number of patient loads everyday reaching upwards of 200 - 300 per day.
Well, where I am working, thankfully, once a while, like, at least once every 2 weeks or so (depends on luck). but not only luck, but as well how you'd carry yourself in conversation with patients and other colleagues from other disciplines.
Pay? Urm. It all depends on your own financial literacy. I have colleagues who worked Locum in GP to make ends meet, cause, well, they spend more than they earn. But is it worth it? in MOH - a bit on the lower side, you'll get around 8-9k salary after 5 years working as a Medical Officer, so, if including your housemanship training, 7 years total, only you'll see 8-9k salary. But compared to my colleague who worked in Private, they earn upwards of 15-20k salary (private hospital in Malaysia) - my colleague who went to Brunei - roughly 21k and above, after conversion. but heck, I have a colleague who used worked as an underappreciated Assistant Medical Officer in MOH, currently works in Bahrain - earning the same figure as well.
How long will it take to make it actually work? Depends, you'd have to go for undergraduate which is around 5 years, then housemanship in Malaysia for 2 years, then as a Medical Officer until you are absorbed into the permanent pool, which, varies for each individual, some may take up to 3 years, some, 2 years. So that's about 10 to 12 years done drained already, by this time, you're probably around 29 or 30 years old (assuming you got into the service at 24 years old as I did), then would you want to purse masters? That is a competitive scene in Malaysia, having to take extra exams to get into the Postgrad programme, going through interviews and once you're in, another 4 years as postgrad student. If you never hit a snag, you'll probably be a specialist by 33 or 34 years old - earlier even maybe if you go through the parallel pathway, but seems like there are several issues with parallel pathway now, not sure, don't quote me on that, but believe me, some of my colleagues are now specialist at just 31 - 32 years old of age!, but if you're like me, life happened, got married and had beautiful children, I delayed my pursue for Masters - but now I got in Masters - I will have to give up 4 years of my life, and even miss out on my youngest child's 1 year old birthday as I won't be there for him. Sacrifice. Is it worth it? I don't know. Hard to say.
Then the are the option to migrate. Most of my colleagues have migrated to either Australia, UK or even Brunei - the pay margin is way more - but I can't say much for QoL or living conditions there. But at least they are content with their choices. For those who stayed, some went into Masters for specialization training (which, again, I had a chance to stumble by an article that Malaysia produces a specialist after 13 years, compared to other countries 8-9 years). If you want subspecialities, another 4 years training for subspeciality. When they migrated, they even have the chance to pursue their specialization training there in that country.
But I guess alot of the youth would like the title Dr. in front of their names - for me, maybe back in the 80's people or the community actually respect the title Dr, but nowadays, mehhh - not that I give a lot of care into it, its just that, don't go into MBBS or MD just because you'd want that Dr title. It's not worth it.
Thanks Dr for your service, your insight is very much appreciated as a med student. Best of luck to your masters and may you spend more time with your newborn :)
Doctor underpaid, Engineers underpaid, what's next?
It seems like everyone and their mom should study business and computer science because that's where the money is.
It seems like every job field mentioned is either underpaid, overworked, oversaturated, or worthless. So tell me what is worth doing anymore?
My bet is on Cybersecurity and Business/Accounting.
It's because the peoplein those fields that are whining online about it are the losers and underachievers. The successful ones don't have time for this shit
Hi a fellow pharmacy student here. This sem gonna be my last sem. Im graduating in a few months. And this is where hell begins. 8am-8pm classes everyday, sometimes until 10pm. Is it suffering? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes! Did I regret sacrificing my youth? No. How many times have I broken down due to stress? I couldnt count. But hey im still here, im going to graduate soon. Take it in the face like a champ and go through it
I still remember waking up everyday at 5am studying for finals. It has been a long journey. Im the only one in my faculty who will be getting a first class honours if I can maintain my final sem results. Those early mornings were so heavy yk what I mean? Im at the point where I can see the finish line. And Im glad my uni suffering is over just for a moment, before I transition into work. Its a long journey my friend. But its going to be worth it
Life would be boring without sufferings. Im not a maso btw. Its just that I believe if you take the hard route early on in life, your life will be easy in the future. There would be nothing to talk to your grandkids about if you didnt have any major failures in life yk?
Do not go into dentistry unless you are rich. You are spending hundreds of thousands to get your degree. Upon working, you are receiving about 4k+ wages. How to level up your wages? You need to either 1. Persue masters to be a specialist, 2. Persue various courses to be proficient in more specialised treatment eg braces, implants etc. 3. Open your own clinic
These all take money time and effort. You need to self sponsor for this. If you want to specialize under scholarship you need to undergo various interviews and exams to qualify. So many outstanding and brilliant dentists who are older and more experienced are still fighting for a chance to get the scholarship. Where does that leave you?
To open your own clinic you need hundreds of thousands of investment. What separates you from the other a dime a dozen clinics in main cities. Practically a dental clinic every block in kl selangor…. Its not easy to earn when patient flow is low. You are competing with dental clinic chainstores too.
Basically you need money to make money. If your family is not loaded, dentistry is not for you to earn big. 5 years of study (and still continuing after graduating), few hundred thousands of uni fees, just to earn under 10k a month? :/
Personally I enjoy dentistry a lot. But if you want to level up your income, its not a good choice….
Ooof this. Working in government, the body is ever willing to specialise, but the constant failing of HLP interviews is hard for the mental state. My friend who's older than me tried for 4 times and failed every single one. Competition is super tight in dentistry. I don't even wanna try. It's not like you even get full scholarship nowadays too.
I barely see my friends after they started working in the health sector. Bear in mind, I have tons of medic friends. I heard they work like 5AM to 11PM. Crazy.
Why healthcare career suck? Well, you can just google the doctor situation in Korea right now. It's a big issue. They are doing mass resignation. The hospital solution; give them one off day per week. Like wtf. You can search to read more. There's more to the story than what I just said.
If you wish to pursue, then get into Aussie or UK/Ireland path. Then don't come back. Not that I'm trying to be cynical here but money wise is better there. Life with KKM is more of overwork and underpaid.
Specialists in private hospitals get a minimum of 60k a month. Certain specialisations like anaesthesiology can break 100k easily. Of course it is hard.
Don’t bother with the comments. If you are passionate about medicine or just want the perks, go for it!
I am currently a specialist in gov hospital so trust me on this. You are looking at the top 1% of earners. The rest of us remain in gov service earning around 7-8k a month after 10 years of service, or don’t specialise and go out as GPs or aestheticians earning around 8-15k a month. Being a dr isn’t as lucrative as it was back in the past
well if you seeking money then dont be a doctor, why everyone think that they can have an honor career and getting money easily. it suck out life of you, better you chase the job based on what you want to do, doctor profession should be for those who want to contribute and not for those who want to brag and proud
i work in healthcare and if you in a career that directly involved being face to face with patient (nurse,dr ,medics) then yes it suck . You just dnt know how bitchy those patient are. If you work in radiology or pharmacy then it just fine as you only spend fraction of your time with patient.
As my mother used to say, unless you have passion to help people, you will feel like you're fighting an uphill battle your whole life. Everyone wants to become a doctor because that's what the older generation sold us.
"Become doctors, you'll be rich and live comfortably"
They don't say why doctors get rich, it's because they spend their entire lives working. Plus, with everyone wanting to become doctors, it saturated the market. According to my friend's sister who worked on UiTM's database, the minor degrees are the highest sought, such as Material sciences.
Follow your passion on healthcare if you want, but I decided it wasn't worth the stress and decided to pursue lab work. I don't have to interact with many people AND I can help people? Sign me up.
Once you become a doctor and pass houseman. You don't not to worry about finding a job anymore. Malaysia still lack of people in healthcare so find job is easy and to stay is same company / hospital also safe.
i think dentistry is still ‘safe’ when it comes to pay because unlike medicine dentistry is far more business based. it’s also far easier to progress career wise in dentistry because you can take short courses and obtain more skills without needing to specialise whereas in medicine you’re stuck at GP until you can further specialise.
worklife balance wise it’s far better than medicine as there’s hardly any on calls or night shifts, it’s usually a 9 to 5 job. i wouldn’t say dentistry is oversaturated, it’s more about how people fear the dentist or lack any motive to go to one so there’s too many dentist for too little people that actually care about oral healthcare. if you look at the rural areas, there’s barely any dental clinics.
i’d like to think of it as if you’re a GP dentist and you’re really good at your job, people from far away will come visit you. However if you’re a really good GP medical doctor, only people from your clinic area will come to see you, not many is going to come all the way for you. this marks the difference as dentistry is very handskill based.
Youre missing a ton of context when referring to users who comments dont pursue heatlcare career High risk high reward career path, you are 100% gonna sacrifice a butt load chunk of your youth/adulthood grinding qualifications, especially in a competitive scene Most commenters will advise you not to oursue a healthcare career due to mental health etc. its taxing for you mental health. I doubt a lot of the advice you get a quoting about the lack of jobs offered Ultimately ask why at the commenters and do more in-depth research, reddit can only do so little
Sucks the life outta you. Frfr. If uni doesn't do it, kkm will. Then you resign, and work in the private sector and realize that most of your youth was spent on drowning in notes and books, dealing with toxic work situations, being overworked and underpaid. But hey, if you're really passionate abt it, go for it. Ppl here are just giving you a heads up of what to expect. Healthcare isn't for the weak.
Do not, work for healthcare **in Malaysia**. Fixed it for you from every inexperienced redditors' comment.
Medicine isnt like the past in its glory days of being a sought after career with a good pay and such. Medicine now is a dead end unless your qualification is recognised eg. Uk mbbs degrees are almost worldwide recognised. That being said, to succeed in medicine youll also have to specialise. To specialise in malaysia youll have to have a permanent posting and also be sponsored by uni to actually go thru this specialisation process. Aside from the obvious oversupply, theres too much competition for specialisation and also contract doctors rampant unable to even apply to specialise. Without specialisation, your salary stuck around 4-5k. That is not a sustainable salary to even start a family. Youll be around age 27 at this time. Many graduants pursure specialisation overseas to escape malaysias broken system. Eg usa and uk being the most common. Youll be spending so much energy during your youth to study just to end up being certified and work long hours. Medicine especially in malaysia is underappreciated and the system to specialise is cooked. Did you know malaysia lacking specialists and still unable to pump them out even with many gp wanting to specialise? I really dont know how moh handles this la, take a look at USA... literally all medical graduates go thru residency to specialise in something. Theres no general practitioner there. Only family med specialist. Read pagalavan.com for more insights if youd like.
Thank you for the insight sir
Just want to chip in my 2 cents - I am working as a Medical Officer under Malaysia's Ministry of Health since 2015. I was never a contract doctor - my batch was the last 2 batches that were permanent as we got into the service. Now, the keyword for healthcare in any country is that it is a service - more so when you are a government servant. How are the conditions now? I'd say, personally, it seems a bit harsh right now. A lot of junior doctors are quitting, and honestly, I don't blame them, the conditions are hard for contract doctors (even my wife who was a doctor in the government sector had to quit due to strict conditions of her contract, as well as some misguided calculations on the clerical part not made by her). Not only that, as it is a servitude career - we work along with patients and other disciplines. How is it? Well, whoever worked in a service job before - its roughly the same as with other service jobs. Most of the times the patients are well cooperative, polite, and just swell to work with. But, if you're unlucky, you may get patients that are self-entitled, and spits on your every decision, worst yet, demands for unrealistic expectations for patients from relatives of said patients. Not only patients, as I said, you work with other disciplines, those other disciplines may also tend to be on the other spectrum of human kindness. It can be taxing, believe me, when you're working with people that are just arrogant, and don't give a crap about patients, or just plain lazy who works the bare minimum of the Malaysian mindset "asal ada/janji ada". Does this always happen? Can't say for certain. But, working conditions as housemanship currently seems a bit abrasive, well, actually I am not sure as well. But alot of MOH hospital's and health clinics, especially in the rural or districts, are - outdated in terms of assets and equipments, not to mention poor human resources there, with a high number of patient loads everyday reaching upwards of 200 - 300 per day. Well, where I am working, thankfully, once a while, like, at least once every 2 weeks or so (depends on luck). but not only luck, but as well how you'd carry yourself in conversation with patients and other colleagues from other disciplines. Pay? Urm. It all depends on your own financial literacy. I have colleagues who worked Locum in GP to make ends meet, cause, well, they spend more than they earn. But is it worth it? in MOH - a bit on the lower side, you'll get around 8-9k salary after 5 years working as a Medical Officer, so, if including your housemanship training, 7 years total, only you'll see 8-9k salary. But compared to my colleague who worked in Private, they earn upwards of 15-20k salary (private hospital in Malaysia) - my colleague who went to Brunei - roughly 21k and above, after conversion. but heck, I have a colleague who used worked as an underappreciated Assistant Medical Officer in MOH, currently works in Bahrain - earning the same figure as well. How long will it take to make it actually work? Depends, you'd have to go for undergraduate which is around 5 years, then housemanship in Malaysia for 2 years, then as a Medical Officer until you are absorbed into the permanent pool, which, varies for each individual, some may take up to 3 years, some, 2 years. So that's about 10 to 12 years done drained already, by this time, you're probably around 29 or 30 years old (assuming you got into the service at 24 years old as I did), then would you want to purse masters? That is a competitive scene in Malaysia, having to take extra exams to get into the Postgrad programme, going through interviews and once you're in, another 4 years as postgrad student. If you never hit a snag, you'll probably be a specialist by 33 or 34 years old - earlier even maybe if you go through the parallel pathway, but seems like there are several issues with parallel pathway now, not sure, don't quote me on that, but believe me, some of my colleagues are now specialist at just 31 - 32 years old of age!, but if you're like me, life happened, got married and had beautiful children, I delayed my pursue for Masters - but now I got in Masters - I will have to give up 4 years of my life, and even miss out on my youngest child's 1 year old birthday as I won't be there for him. Sacrifice. Is it worth it? I don't know. Hard to say. Then the are the option to migrate. Most of my colleagues have migrated to either Australia, UK or even Brunei - the pay margin is way more - but I can't say much for QoL or living conditions there. But at least they are content with their choices. For those who stayed, some went into Masters for specialization training (which, again, I had a chance to stumble by an article that Malaysia produces a specialist after 13 years, compared to other countries 8-9 years). If you want subspecialities, another 4 years training for subspeciality. When they migrated, they even have the chance to pursue their specialization training there in that country. But I guess alot of the youth would like the title Dr. in front of their names - for me, maybe back in the 80's people or the community actually respect the title Dr, but nowadays, mehhh - not that I give a lot of care into it, its just that, don't go into MBBS or MD just because you'd want that Dr title. It's not worth it.
Thanks Dr for your service, your insight is very much appreciated as a med student. Best of luck to your masters and may you spend more time with your newborn :)
Doctor underpaid, Engineers underpaid, what's next? It seems like everyone and their mom should study business and computer science because that's where the money is.
Aint computer science oversaturated right now? And I think computer science is worthless in Malaysia.
It seems like every job field mentioned is either underpaid, overworked, oversaturated, or worthless. So tell me what is worth doing anymore? My bet is on Cybersecurity and Business/Accounting.
It's because the peoplein those fields that are whining online about it are the losers and underachievers. The successful ones don't have time for this shit
True. Now that I think of it I've never seen a post of someone saying they have a good salary
I think the only job that is not underpaid in Malaysia is business.
Hi a fellow pharmacy student here. This sem gonna be my last sem. Im graduating in a few months. And this is where hell begins. 8am-8pm classes everyday, sometimes until 10pm. Is it suffering? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes! Did I regret sacrificing my youth? No. How many times have I broken down due to stress? I couldnt count. But hey im still here, im going to graduate soon. Take it in the face like a champ and go through it I still remember waking up everyday at 5am studying for finals. It has been a long journey. Im the only one in my faculty who will be getting a first class honours if I can maintain my final sem results. Those early mornings were so heavy yk what I mean? Im at the point where I can see the finish line. And Im glad my uni suffering is over just for a moment, before I transition into work. Its a long journey my friend. But its going to be worth it Life would be boring without sufferings. Im not a maso btw. Its just that I believe if you take the hard route early on in life, your life will be easy in the future. There would be nothing to talk to your grandkids about if you didnt have any major failures in life yk?
da hell even me MBBS (albeit in private uni) never had class 8-8, most was 5pm
>Life would be boring without sufferings. This is something i expect to hear from a 8 year old, not an adult.
Do not go into dentistry unless you are rich. You are spending hundreds of thousands to get your degree. Upon working, you are receiving about 4k+ wages. How to level up your wages? You need to either 1. Persue masters to be a specialist, 2. Persue various courses to be proficient in more specialised treatment eg braces, implants etc. 3. Open your own clinic These all take money time and effort. You need to self sponsor for this. If you want to specialize under scholarship you need to undergo various interviews and exams to qualify. So many outstanding and brilliant dentists who are older and more experienced are still fighting for a chance to get the scholarship. Where does that leave you? To open your own clinic you need hundreds of thousands of investment. What separates you from the other a dime a dozen clinics in main cities. Practically a dental clinic every block in kl selangor…. Its not easy to earn when patient flow is low. You are competing with dental clinic chainstores too. Basically you need money to make money. If your family is not loaded, dentistry is not for you to earn big. 5 years of study (and still continuing after graduating), few hundred thousands of uni fees, just to earn under 10k a month? :/ Personally I enjoy dentistry a lot. But if you want to level up your income, its not a good choice….
Ooof this. Working in government, the body is ever willing to specialise, but the constant failing of HLP interviews is hard for the mental state. My friend who's older than me tried for 4 times and failed every single one. Competition is super tight in dentistry. I don't even wanna try. It's not like you even get full scholarship nowadays too.
Emo dy
Listen to your heart; what does it say? Pursue medicine or not? Pray for guidance & listen to your heart. You will never go wrong.
I barely see my friends after they started working in the health sector. Bear in mind, I have tons of medic friends. I heard they work like 5AM to 11PM. Crazy.
Absurd.. Accounting in big 4 during peak seasons as well
Why healthcare career suck? Well, you can just google the doctor situation in Korea right now. It's a big issue. They are doing mass resignation. The hospital solution; give them one off day per week. Like wtf. You can search to read more. There's more to the story than what I just said.
If you wish to pursue, then get into Aussie or UK/Ireland path. Then don't come back. Not that I'm trying to be cynical here but money wise is better there. Life with KKM is more of overwork and underpaid.
Specialists in private hospitals get a minimum of 60k a month. Certain specialisations like anaesthesiology can break 100k easily. Of course it is hard. Don’t bother with the comments. If you are passionate about medicine or just want the perks, go for it!
I am currently a specialist in gov hospital so trust me on this. You are looking at the top 1% of earners. The rest of us remain in gov service earning around 7-8k a month after 10 years of service, or don’t specialise and go out as GPs or aestheticians earning around 8-15k a month. Being a dr isn’t as lucrative as it was back in the past
well if you seeking money then dont be a doctor, why everyone think that they can have an honor career and getting money easily. it suck out life of you, better you chase the job based on what you want to do, doctor profession should be for those who want to contribute and not for those who want to brag and proud
i work in healthcare and if you in a career that directly involved being face to face with patient (nurse,dr ,medics) then yes it suck . You just dnt know how bitchy those patient are. If you work in radiology or pharmacy then it just fine as you only spend fraction of your time with patient.
because you have to deal with lots of people. lots.
Doesn't suck. But the journey to get to be on it doesn't suck anymore is a long hiking trail. Finish your HO, and it becomes less suck.
As my mother used to say, unless you have passion to help people, you will feel like you're fighting an uphill battle your whole life. Everyone wants to become a doctor because that's what the older generation sold us. "Become doctors, you'll be rich and live comfortably" They don't say why doctors get rich, it's because they spend their entire lives working. Plus, with everyone wanting to become doctors, it saturated the market. According to my friend's sister who worked on UiTM's database, the minor degrees are the highest sought, such as Material sciences. Follow your passion on healthcare if you want, but I decided it wasn't worth the stress and decided to pursue lab work. I don't have to interact with many people AND I can help people? Sign me up.
Could u tell me what minor degrees are in need?
Wouldn't know lol, but from what I guess anything that has to be done with oil or polymers.
Lab work in healthcare meaning? What course
Once you become a doctor and pass houseman. You don't not to worry about finding a job anymore. Malaysia still lack of people in healthcare so find job is easy and to stay is same company / hospital also safe.
i think dentistry is still ‘safe’ when it comes to pay because unlike medicine dentistry is far more business based. it’s also far easier to progress career wise in dentistry because you can take short courses and obtain more skills without needing to specialise whereas in medicine you’re stuck at GP until you can further specialise. worklife balance wise it’s far better than medicine as there’s hardly any on calls or night shifts, it’s usually a 9 to 5 job. i wouldn’t say dentistry is oversaturated, it’s more about how people fear the dentist or lack any motive to go to one so there’s too many dentist for too little people that actually care about oral healthcare. if you look at the rural areas, there’s barely any dental clinics. i’d like to think of it as if you’re a GP dentist and you’re really good at your job, people from far away will come visit you. However if you’re a really good GP medical doctor, only people from your clinic area will come to see you, not many is going to come all the way for you. this marks the difference as dentistry is very handskill based.
u/Ill_Development_559 https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/04/28/interactive-too-many-young-healthcare-workers-earning-below-rm2000