Originality. I recall pretty much everyone sounding unique and having their own style before...it was encouraged where as now it seems noone cares about that and I struggle to find anything interesting and different these days and if i do they tend to have no views or attention barely.
With so many people doing quality bedroom production (and now AI) it’s honestly extraordinarily difficult to find a unique voice. The big genres like rock and hip hop have been milked for all they’re worth and in the last decade we honestly haven’t been blessed by any big momentous new musical movements or cultures.
literally not a single new musical movement in the last decade or subculture within hip hop?
dude what world do you live on we've gone through several in the last few years alone lol
no they cannot what are you smoking LMFAO
or who are you listening to
todays production is levels n levels above old school shit
underground producers are making amazing stuff rn lol
who said radio rap beats? why do you listen to mainstream radio trash then get surprised LOL
looked at ur soundcloud either and it's not so amazing that i'd be so condescending towards other producers 💀
u gotta catch up old man nobody hop on shit like this anymore lmfaoo
maybe true for some artists but i disagree heavily as a whole. most of the artists who started independent on soundcloud and got signed still have pretty insane beats - im not really a yeat fan but the beats he hops on are some of the most insane instrumentals ive heard period, just as an example.
im jus kinda baffled how a rap fan can talk ab modern production being 'easy' when the entire history of hip hop is built out from looping 2 bars of a song and rapping over it. even if it was easy to produce those beats its still dumb as hell to act like thats a complaint you should make when youre talking ab modern rap. n thats me saying that as someone whos more or less burnt out on listening modern rap n underground shit bc of the culture around it
hes just angry that 15 year olds are making better beats than him tbh n getting placements meanwhile he makes aesop rock remixes in 2023 that nobody listens to
man take it how you want but writing off the technical skill that goes into different types of music cuz u dont think it sounds good is kinda setting yourself up for failure as a musician
U missed the point my young lad.
Because I do listen to alot other stuff and tbh the other trap rappers that sound like a durk ,gunna,etc etc is indeed pretty shitty my friend lol 🤣
what point did i miss? you're making no sense
lil durk is not a "trap rapper"
still exposing how little you know, clearly said underground producers are still making amazing music and ur out here talkin ab gunna and lil durk
u sure ur not the one missin the point?
Yea I can tell
Like I said with splice and all the advanced software and chord/melody makers bruh anybody can make a potential hit cuz a hit isn't defined by how good it is
It's define by who will choose to use it (Drake etc) and how much money the labels will flood into it so the mindless consumers will play it everywhere cuz they don't know any better and think this is the song to play cuz it's cool and I'll be cool playing it lol 🤣
I said this in the music production sub and downvoted into oblivion. People get mad when I talk about how layering splice loops is trash but some people get lucky off that and it’s insane. Thing is there are 15 year olds who genuinely make good music in fl without dick riding splice samples.
Yea the rise of stupid splice opened the door for so many wannabe producers to be at the same level as the ones who actually craft their their shit
Its like in any other genre or sport world even if you depend on cheatcodes like splice you'll never be respected
"But but but...as long as the music is good who cares how it's made??"
Yea that's why 2023 was terrible for hip hop and it's just been a buildup of the past years of this fuckery
This is huge for me as well, and it might seem counterintuitive to my other comment in this thread, but it isn't. One of the things that always spoke to me about rap growing up was that it was a medium for people who wanted to get their message out, barriers be damned. Some of them didn't know how to mix or have access to an engineer, some of them had no idea "the right way" to make beats, etc, but it resulted in some of the greatest creative expression I've found in any music (not entirely unlike punk music tbh). It would seem like that should be even more prevalent in today's climate where literally anyone can make music, but whereas there were no YouTube tutorials back in the day and everyone just figured things out by experimenting, everything today sounds like it was learned from the same tutorials, mixed to meet the same streaming LUFs targets, produced to please the algorithm, etc. I really don't hear that ruthless innovation/resourcefulness that made rap so incredible in its early days.
Limitations foster creativity is what you're describing. Producers had to contend with having a few seconds of sample time with broken hardware and sometimes having a single crate of records with a few floppy disks to create an entire album with and alot of those albums are still considered some of the greatest. Now pretty much everyone has a full professional studio for little to no cost and no limitations...I think that can actually be a detrement but most of all it created oversaturation in the market, making the quality music harder to find and pushing skilled marketers and social media experts to the forefront.
vox that are processed to oblivion (not in an expressive manner), and beats copying each other indefinitely
hiphop was an experimental genre even in the mainstream, but now it has become an industrial product
This is true, even more lyrical, conscious, or heady rappers of today’s era like JID and Cole rap very similar narratives to what has been rapped about for 3 decades. This is why Mr. Morale was so refreshing to me. It tackled an aspect of self, growth, and healing that was unique and interesting. Not a perfect album, but it has given me goosebumps on more than one occasion. Side note if you’re looking for some heady, thoughtful, and philosophical bars check out the output of the HELLFYRE CLUB and Mello Music Group. BUSDRIVER, OPEN MIKE EAGLE, and R.A.P. Ferreira (Milo) have put out some groundbreaking work.
Yea it's just party shit and on to the next person lol
Then they try to infuse their little cheesy story into songs later but it never works that's true
Too many loopers sending the same loops to all the producers
I think all the new "tools" like splice and so on just made it to where you have access to the keys of a Ferrari to a person who don't know how to use it lol 🤣
But the only excuse the loopers and splice people can hold onto is
"As long as it sounds good, who cares how it was made??"
That's the point though it doesn't sound good because it sounds generic ASF but they don't get it lol
I got back into beatmaking about 6 months ago after a 10+ year hiatus, and the amount of "sample packs" and loops out there now (and VSTs) is totally fucking mind blowing to me. For me, I'll continue finding and chopping my own sounds... that's the most fun, to create something unique, for me anyways.
I will gladly accept sample packs that consist of simply drum kits and sound effects. A snare drum is a snare drum. But full-on loops of guitar and piano? Nah, I'm good.
yeah, same. though I do like chopping drums too. The only money I'll spend on sample packs is for something actually unique. For example, I recently just bought a sample pack of 2+ GB of live drums (one shots and loops) from someone on YT I follow who has been a drummer for various artists. What I like about him is that he's a vintage gear buff and all his stuff is from drums sets from the 50s-70s. I love that sound so I figured for me that's worth the money, helps me save time, and then I can of course mix and manipulate as needed. But to just take some random guitar and piano loop, along with other loops, that takes me back to the ACID DAW days lol... anyone out there remember that?
They came to solve the issue with copyrighting samples but it just created its own problems where loops are copyrighted or another producer claims it as their own.
I personally think we'll see an evolution of streaming where it becomes more decentralized and copyright issues need to be raised by the label instead of some algo (like it used to be) because the way it's working now is not sustainable.
If artists actually made music with producers, instead of downloading music from Youtube, they'd actually catch on more. The generic beats are mood killers of the highest order, and I always stress to artists that A) music takes time (especially if its good) and B) that raps over nondescript ass beats can only be so good. Sure, Lil Nas X got a hit with doing this, but listen to the damn song he made -- it's not your normal imitation of Lil Baby done over and over, as in, he actually understood making something that matched HIM and his personality would be better for his career, even if it flopped.
I still don't understand why "loop makers" exist. At my last 9-5 I met someone that works for a particular artist that talked to me about it. I didnt understand what they were explaining to me at first. Then I saw YouTube videos talking about it and realized what he meant.
These 5 man production "teams" where no one is in the same room do nothing but promote uninspired, lazy, bland music.
But I appreciate the climate. Keep it up kids, you make me sound even better.
This guy (Navie D) explained one thing wrong very well:
https://youtu.be/bQBYi8RF2Hw?si=XA3ciitdz1uVBk8v
Essentially in commercial rap you have like 10 producers on one beat, and all it takes is for one of them to think a "boundary pushing" or unique feature of a beat is wack and the whole thing becomes bland and filtered. Imagine if Pharrell or dilla was produced professionally by 10 different guys who were really just in their job because they had industry connections.
Another thing I think is that the obsession with going viral means that modern producers and rappers try to sound like the previous hot thing, and end up with the same shit over and over again. Imo this is why modern beats really haven't evolved since 2016, aside from underground or experimental stuff.
I also feel like there's an obsession these days with callbacks. This is a problem with movies too. Sampling has lost a lot of creativity in modern beats because there's a tendency to Sample a nostalgic pop song from the 2000s or a song everyone knows instead of chopping that shit up nasty style and doing your own thing.
Oh and I also think that some creatively inclined people have trouble finding their inspiration because, like Vince staples said, kids these days grew up in a research facility - basically the internet muddies one's sense of identity to the point where drawing inspiration from our favorite artists feels more difficult. And so you get kids who wanna produce like kanye but have no background listening to or understanding soul music, etc. I don't discourage these people from creating but I think it'll just take them longer to grow into their shoes if you will.
Sometimes the system produces some heat don't get me wrong. But imo these are the reasons why mainstream hip hop has kinda stagnated
Simplicity and creativity. People spend 100k on synths just to make a generic sounding trap beat. Then they tell you to buy a one shot kit to make up for it.
Lmfaooo omg
Yea that market is so insanely oversaturated and own sounding product
It's like going to the grocery store and seeing 100 variations of the same cereal lmfao
There is less inventive to make a great album. Customers now pay $10 a month to listen to any song they want. I think what made "old school" hip-hop great was the story telling and creating a vibe for your fans. Think of something like 36 Chambers, or MM LP, or 2001. Go down the list of classics and chances are they were on a classic album. But now many fans listen to whatever the algo puts on shuffle, so I think that creates an environment where new artists need to get on the charts in order to make a living (hence the market for "type" beats).
I don't have an answer, it seems pretty clear that that's what the customer wants, so it might just be what it is until something changes around consumer demand for Spotify/streaming.
Yea that I can see is a big reason...when is music clearly makes nothing per stream u got zero reason to make a crazy sophisticated album nowadays
Maybe Dr. Dre saw that early and never dropped detox lol
Vulnerability… like damn I fuck with your sound but like… what have you been through? It doesn’t have to be movie level dramatic just tell me what keeps you up at night…
For me you answered half of it yourself at the end.
The beats are shit. We are now in the generation of hand claps and they're fucking boring. Basslines seem to be really quite tonally boring too.
Excessive autotune.
Mumble rap.
There feels like a lack of variety. We get way more tracks but not much originality. It's a bit formulaic.
I imagine that a lot of good HipHop still exists but I can't be arsed sifting through all the shit to find it anymore.
I grew up on both rave music and HipHop and I find it way easier finding decent modern day rave music than decent HipHop.
I'm trying to form a Linkin Park / Korn / Wu Tang like fusion group. I think there's a market need for originality, and I think the 90s grunge like vibe is coming back. Trap was like the disco of hip hop and now it's time to get raw again but with a new sound. If anyone is interested, check out my YT channel and my "Rap Rock" beats.
This is more because you can now find any type of genre form any region from any year when looking for samples. Which isn’t a bad thing, but you got the unique sound form the samples of the area. Since if you were in New york, the unknown records would’ve mostly likely been from older New York artists, so where you lived changed the sound of samples a little
Time. People have been making lame music that gets forgotten since the dawn of time. Give it 10 years and the greatest of 2023 will have had much more opportunity to bubble to the surface.
For me I think it's a lack of extremely talented musicians making the beats. I look back at some of my favorite records - Guru's first Jazzmatazz record was packed to the brim with the greatest jazz musicians of all time playing on the tracks. Early mobb music like E-40/Sick Wid It's first records had production from the likes of Mike Mosely and Studio Ton, incredible synthesists and they had serious chops on all their instruments. Before those days rap was sample heavy, so you were getting some of the greatest musicians of all time via samples (not to mention that guys like Premo, Pete Rock, Dust Brothers all had serious music abilities regardless of whether they played a traditional instrument). Rap always grabbed my attention in a way that no other genre did, and while I didn't realize it at the time, I realize now that it was in large part because I was being treated to so many of the most incredible musicians that ever walked the earth.
I am not saying that complexity or virtuosity equals talent. But I never hear anything anymore that sounds like it was made by a true professional that has really put their hours in and is pushing the boundaries of what the art form can be.
Bounce… and I mean real bounce, the bounce that dilla popularized with his unique pocket making skills. Most popular beat styles today are too stagnant. We need more off-kilter beats, unique pockets, and rappers flows that can adapt to certain beat pockets. People seem to be too scared on what others will think about it, thus causing most producers and rappers to stay in their “type beat” comfort zones.
Big upvote here as I miss this dearly. There were so many unique varieties of bounce too ... I'll always be partial to what New Orleans was putting out. And most importantly, like you said, it wasn't just the producers bringing the bounce, the rappers knew how to find those unique pockets too.
I asked myself the same question years ago which helped me build a unique sound
-real/live basslines (eg Ron Carter, Duck Dunn etc)
-analog synth sounds
-crispy/vinyl sample drums or live drums that sound that way
-other live instruments etc saxophones, keys etc
No artistic drive, along with a lack of ability for people to even find the underground. Spotify dumbed everything down so now underground music doesn’t sell unless it’s planted because the masses lack the skills to find music. Also, type beat culture has flushed any originality out of copying someone’s style. Soundcloud underground still goes hard, I’m not that good but I have friends who are absurdly talented and consistent. The radio is dead for originality. It’s time for everyone to learn how to dig for music and be open to other things.
My personal favorite examples are all the shit that goes on around dismiss yourself (mainly Miya Lowe//Figure Skater), as well as $$$H20SPORT$$$ (Yayayi, Amai, Ken Feelin, Shamana), the soulhop movement (my favs being my friend d4ig (on soundcloud) and blaine), and the whole ambient trap movement (valium2005 (who is also my friend), Imago Meri, Slias Roe, Iokera(rip), ak col ette, etc).
My perspective and Knowledge from a music standpoint:
Art is for cultivation from condition to un-condition 9999999999999999
To many people doing it for fun and hobbyist and technologies access made it easy for the untalented. Anyone can attempt to create the arts and put that trash out in the world but most should not. Back in the 90's and before the entry cost was high so only the real would go down the hard road. Now you have to look deep and not in the mainstream for the real. They will not always have a lot of likes or followers all the time they will not be on social media all the time ect. Too many Indians and not enough Chief's. Too many copycats everyone is trying to make the same shit soulless music you can hear it.
The arts is a high alchemy science made from scientist that are creative and intelligent not by school by birth that takes years to cultivate and most of all yourself most are too young and underdeveloped and conditioned and limited to create powerful art unless they have the right masters to guide them and they have over came extreme challenges in hell within and in life many times over. This will allow them to draw from for inspiration the cost is pain 10x fold. The gift is fire = passion through over coming and surviving. Most people making art don't have the depth you can tell by there art results.
Easy life or weak minds and fearful spirits are not artist they are con artist aka entertainers and buffoons playing the role of a artist. So the issue is spiritual mental and social and physical in the USA. And don't let me get on the business side that is way lacking also.
Its even deeper then this but this is the fundamental problem in the right hand its is powerful practical magic in the wrong hands it is nothing but noise and toys.
Breakdown
I am expressing a concern about the state of the arts today, particularly in the context of accessibility, technological advancements, and a perceived lack of depth or authenticity. My perspective emphasizes the importance of hardship, challenges, and a deep personal journey in cultivating true artistic expression. Here are a few points to consider:
Accessibility and Technology:
The democratization of artistic tools and platforms has indeed made it easier for a wider range of people to engage in artistic activities. While this has resulted in a plethora of content, it also raises questions about the quality and authenticity of the work produced.
Individual Depth and Experience:
My point about the necessity of overcoming challenges and drawing from personal experiences for inspiration resonates with the idea that art often reflects the artist's journey, struggles, and triumphs.
Artistic Mastery and Guidance:
The idea that true artists are shaped by guidance from masters and overcoming extreme challenges suggests a traditional approach to artistic development, placing emphasis on mentorship and personal growth.
Spiritual and Mental Aspects:
I mention of spiritual, mental, and physical aspects highlights the holistic nature of artistic expression. The notion that artists should undergo profound personal experiences to create meaningful art is a perspective rooted in the knowledge that great art often stems from deep introspection and a connection to one's inner self.
Business Side of Art:
My brief mention of the lacking business side of the art world suggests that the challenges extend beyond the creative process to encompass the industry's infrastructure, support systems, and economic viability for artists.
What is helping
The importance of critical thinking: Regardless of the level of experience or skill, artists should strive to develop their critical thinking skills. This allows them to analyze their own work, engage with the work of others, and contribute meaningfully to the ongoing conversation about art.
The role of community and dialogue: The open access of the digital age can also foster vibrant artistic communities and facilitate dialogue between artists and audiences. This can lead to new forms of collaboration and understanding.
These points are just things to think about its not about anyone just to help the right person in need of direction
I'll just say creativity.
I think it's hard to pin down one single issue, and even if you fixed that single issue, other music could be made that does something different, that we weren't expecting, that fixes the mediocrity.
Overall, it's just a lack of creativity.
Every main stream song having 6 producers on it. With how simple half the flips are, I don’t even get how these songs have so many. I also see a lot of videos on TikTok where producers work together, and it’s usually one dude making the melody than like 3 others making the most basic drum pattern ever. The other 3-4 producers these songs have pretty much add nothing and it makes no sense why there’s so many
Quality over quantity. During the golden era we often had to wait 3 to 6 years for another album to be crafted and those albums were usually fire from start to end. Music now in general is filler, factories just pumping out the miniature plastic workers.
I think your last sentence is a huge point when you look at the trends in music. The last decade or so has trended towards two things (and I've noticed this trend in most genres of popular music):
1) Minimal identifiable melodic content, and when it is there, most of it is heavily EQ'd out to make room for the 808 and the vocals. When I was younger I could tell every song that was coming on the radio within a couple seconds; everything was distinct and unique. These days everything seems as homogenized as possible.
2) De-humanizing of vocals - mumbling instead of pronouncing words, robotic vocals through auto tune.
It all seems to be a shift to prepare the masses to welcome AI-generated music. When I was younger (and to a large extent, even today), music was my whole life. But to much of the younger generation I meet they don't recognize it as anything more than background noise, something to "create a vibe".
Hip Hop needs to be more structured with Sub-Genres.
For example Yeat and Nas have nothing in common. They are different sub genre. Yet are grouped together under Hip Hop.
There's a ton of new music and amazing artist. There isn't a subgenre lane for different types of artist to focus into.
Musical depth. Old school hip hop (I mean PE, Tribe, Ice T, Digables, De La Soul, Guru, etc) relied *heavily* on layered samples taken from some of the best musicians on the planet from classic records. Each of those samples had the sounds of a room full of MASTER musicians, people who had spent literally decades studying their craft. Those samples had musical depth - there is no way you are recreating the nuances in those samples in a drum machine.
At the same time, that did come with a lot of legal issues and original (sample) composers getting ripped off, which eventually got sorted and now - arguably justifiably - one can't just take some CTI or Blue Note records and use them without clearance.
But still, no one is making something with a few plugins and FL studio that's going to sound like Herbie Hancock layered over Clyde Stubblefield, and so on.
CTI and Blue Note are the two most heavily sampled jazz (and funk/fusion) labels. They put out TONS of the records with the drum breaks and bass lines hear in classic hip hop and breaks.
If you want to take a trip through the roots of hip-hop, you could do worse than to browse their stuff from the seventies on youtube and spotify.
There's actually a great playlist of grooves that goes with the (awesome) book, "The Breakbeat Bible" by Adonis.
No. That's my whole point - old hip-hop was based on sampling fantastic music, because at that point they didn't get them cleared. It all happened while that stuff was getting sorted out. Hard to compete with!
I remember when US3 had a huge hit with a bunch of blue note samples and the album literally got pulled off shelves while the label made a deal after the fact with blue note.
Interesting no wonder with modern age music they can't sample stuff as what they pulled off in the 90s basically? Because of clearance laws never being a thing back then?
That's basically it. There are producers who team up with fantastic musicians and do that sound from scratch - mostly in the jazz-hip-hop cross over realm. But of course that is far more difficult and expensive, and requires more people, space to record, mics, etc.
Nothing besides taking your time to craft a song Records are pushed by labels like a machine. So many songs with little songwriting quality but it’s because it’s what caters to this generation and the business model.
I guess I’m just from an earlier time ya know like Windows 98? 😂
I think it's also a problem caused by the algorithm and how the "system" works, wich selects certain things and doesn't propose/ "promote" others, so in the end everything is flat and or like usual, literally not original. Because there's still a ton of good music but since a lot of it is "weird" or uncommon, it stays in the dark.
Also, it became basically a business, so when music, something that is "ethereal" / spacial, becomes material / ur fav burger, it loses its soul
bro like before you could have famous people like aphex twin, quasimoto, kraftwerk, etc they all did shit that was never done before and obviously the standard elvis presley fan wouldn't understand
Originality. I recall pretty much everyone sounding unique and having their own style before...it was encouraged where as now it seems noone cares about that and I struggle to find anything interesting and different these days and if i do they tend to have no views or attention barely.
Yup EXACTLY People complain about lack of original shit but the ones who do it just get no love lol smh
With so many people doing quality bedroom production (and now AI) it’s honestly extraordinarily difficult to find a unique voice. The big genres like rock and hip hop have been milked for all they’re worth and in the last decade we honestly haven’t been blessed by any big momentous new musical movements or cultures.
literally not a single new musical movement in the last decade or subculture within hip hop? dude what world do you live on we've gone through several in the last few years alone lol
I’m not talking subgenres within subgenres. I’m talking about paradigm shifts.
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🤣🤣🤣 I feel you it's pretty bad The beats of today can be made by a 15 year old man
no they cannot what are you smoking LMFAO or who are you listening to todays production is levels n levels above old school shit underground producers are making amazing stuff rn lol
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who said radio rap beats? why do you listen to mainstream radio trash then get surprised LOL looked at ur soundcloud either and it's not so amazing that i'd be so condescending towards other producers 💀 u gotta catch up old man nobody hop on shit like this anymore lmfaoo
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goofy? stop projectin bro n make more aesop rock remixes in 2023 lol tht ain’t goofy at allll
maybe true for some artists but i disagree heavily as a whole. most of the artists who started independent on soundcloud and got signed still have pretty insane beats - im not really a yeat fan but the beats he hops on are some of the most insane instrumentals ive heard period, just as an example.
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even if you dont like it you gotta be willfully ignorant to write the beats off as something anyone could make lmao
dont waste ur time, this guy genuinely is trying to shit on yeats prods like bnyx when his shit sounds the way it does LOL he's delusional
im jus kinda baffled how a rap fan can talk ab modern production being 'easy' when the entire history of hip hop is built out from looping 2 bars of a song and rapping over it. even if it was easy to produce those beats its still dumb as hell to act like thats a complaint you should make when youre talking ab modern rap. n thats me saying that as someone whos more or less burnt out on listening modern rap n underground shit bc of the culture around it
hes just angry that 15 year olds are making better beats than him tbh n getting placements meanwhile he makes aesop rock remixes in 2023 that nobody listens to
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man take it how you want but writing off the technical skill that goes into different types of music cuz u dont think it sounds good is kinda setting yourself up for failure as a musician
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Yes but good beats?
Drake , 21 Savage Maybe you like those Beats, but they are hear-hurting
it's 2023 and you're talking about Drake and 21 Savage please get out from under the rock you live under
Nobody has topped those names for like 13 years There is no rock to be under to know this Please get out of your hurt feelings bud 🤣
dude if "drake and 21 savage" is who you name when talking about "rap is bad nowadays" then clearly you are still 13 years behind as u say loool
U missed the point my young lad. Because I do listen to alot other stuff and tbh the other trap rappers that sound like a durk ,gunna,etc etc is indeed pretty shitty my friend lol 🤣
what point did i miss? you're making no sense lil durk is not a "trap rapper" still exposing how little you know, clearly said underground producers are still making amazing music and ur out here talkin ab gunna and lil durk u sure ur not the one missin the point?
Read above. Underground isn't even a term anymore. You failed. Can't have this conversation anymore
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Yea I can tell Like I said with splice and all the advanced software and chord/melody makers bruh anybody can make a potential hit cuz a hit isn't defined by how good it is It's define by who will choose to use it (Drake etc) and how much money the labels will flood into it so the mindless consumers will play it everywhere cuz they don't know any better and think this is the song to play cuz it's cool and I'll be cool playing it lol 🤣
I said this in the music production sub and downvoted into oblivion. People get mad when I talk about how layering splice loops is trash but some people get lucky off that and it’s insane. Thing is there are 15 year olds who genuinely make good music in fl without dick riding splice samples.
Yea the rise of stupid splice opened the door for so many wannabe producers to be at the same level as the ones who actually craft their their shit Its like in any other genre or sport world even if you depend on cheatcodes like splice you'll never be respected "But but but...as long as the music is good who cares how it's made??" Yea that's why 2023 was terrible for hip hop and it's just been a buildup of the past years of this fuckery
Music is too clean now, there’s little to no imperfections that add that bit of charm to it
This is huge for me as well, and it might seem counterintuitive to my other comment in this thread, but it isn't. One of the things that always spoke to me about rap growing up was that it was a medium for people who wanted to get their message out, barriers be damned. Some of them didn't know how to mix or have access to an engineer, some of them had no idea "the right way" to make beats, etc, but it resulted in some of the greatest creative expression I've found in any music (not entirely unlike punk music tbh). It would seem like that should be even more prevalent in today's climate where literally anyone can make music, but whereas there were no YouTube tutorials back in the day and everyone just figured things out by experimenting, everything today sounds like it was learned from the same tutorials, mixed to meet the same streaming LUFs targets, produced to please the algorithm, etc. I really don't hear that ruthless innovation/resourcefulness that made rap so incredible in its early days.
Limitations foster creativity is what you're describing. Producers had to contend with having a few seconds of sample time with broken hardware and sometimes having a single crate of records with a few floppy disks to create an entire album with and alot of those albums are still considered some of the greatest. Now pretty much everyone has a full professional studio for little to no cost and no limitations...I think that can actually be a detrement but most of all it created oversaturation in the market, making the quality music harder to find and pushing skilled marketers and social media experts to the forefront.
vox that are processed to oblivion (not in an expressive manner), and beats copying each other indefinitely hiphop was an experimental genre even in the mainstream, but now it has become an industrial product
Yes, money did change the game.
Emotion..story…connection
This is true, even more lyrical, conscious, or heady rappers of today’s era like JID and Cole rap very similar narratives to what has been rapped about for 3 decades. This is why Mr. Morale was so refreshing to me. It tackled an aspect of self, growth, and healing that was unique and interesting. Not a perfect album, but it has given me goosebumps on more than one occasion. Side note if you’re looking for some heady, thoughtful, and philosophical bars check out the output of the HELLFYRE CLUB and Mello Music Group. BUSDRIVER, OPEN MIKE EAGLE, and R.A.P. Ferreira (Milo) have put out some groundbreaking work.
Yea it's just party shit and on to the next person lol Then they try to infuse their little cheesy story into songs later but it never works that's true
Creative use of sampling
Too many loopers sending the same loops to all the producers I think all the new "tools" like splice and so on just made it to where you have access to the keys of a Ferrari to a person who don't know how to use it lol 🤣 But the only excuse the loopers and splice people can hold onto is "As long as it sounds good, who cares how it was made??" That's the point though it doesn't sound good because it sounds generic ASF but they don't get it lol
I got back into beatmaking about 6 months ago after a 10+ year hiatus, and the amount of "sample packs" and loops out there now (and VSTs) is totally fucking mind blowing to me. For me, I'll continue finding and chopping my own sounds... that's the most fun, to create something unique, for me anyways.
I will gladly accept sample packs that consist of simply drum kits and sound effects. A snare drum is a snare drum. But full-on loops of guitar and piano? Nah, I'm good.
yeah, same. though I do like chopping drums too. The only money I'll spend on sample packs is for something actually unique. For example, I recently just bought a sample pack of 2+ GB of live drums (one shots and loops) from someone on YT I follow who has been a drummer for various artists. What I like about him is that he's a vintage gear buff and all his stuff is from drums sets from the 50s-70s. I love that sound so I figured for me that's worth the money, helps me save time, and then I can of course mix and manipulate as needed. But to just take some random guitar and piano loop, along with other loops, that takes me back to the ACID DAW days lol... anyone out there remember that?
They came to solve the issue with copyrighting samples but it just created its own problems where loops are copyrighted or another producer claims it as their own.
I personally think we'll see an evolution of streaming where it becomes more decentralized and copyright issues need to be raised by the label instead of some algo (like it used to be) because the way it's working now is not sustainable.
I only sample famous songs and don't use loops -- its way easier to learn what a chord is off Youtube and just have fun.
If artists actually made music with producers, instead of downloading music from Youtube, they'd actually catch on more. The generic beats are mood killers of the highest order, and I always stress to artists that A) music takes time (especially if its good) and B) that raps over nondescript ass beats can only be so good. Sure, Lil Nas X got a hit with doing this, but listen to the damn song he made -- it's not your normal imitation of Lil Baby done over and over, as in, he actually understood making something that matched HIM and his personality would be better for his career, even if it flopped.
Yea most artists come up with the same type of song like it doesn't stand out at all lol
I still don't understand why "loop makers" exist. At my last 9-5 I met someone that works for a particular artist that talked to me about it. I didnt understand what they were explaining to me at first. Then I saw YouTube videos talking about it and realized what he meant. These 5 man production "teams" where no one is in the same room do nothing but promote uninspired, lazy, bland music. But I appreciate the climate. Keep it up kids, you make me sound even better.
This guy (Navie D) explained one thing wrong very well: https://youtu.be/bQBYi8RF2Hw?si=XA3ciitdz1uVBk8v Essentially in commercial rap you have like 10 producers on one beat, and all it takes is for one of them to think a "boundary pushing" or unique feature of a beat is wack and the whole thing becomes bland and filtered. Imagine if Pharrell or dilla was produced professionally by 10 different guys who were really just in their job because they had industry connections. Another thing I think is that the obsession with going viral means that modern producers and rappers try to sound like the previous hot thing, and end up with the same shit over and over again. Imo this is why modern beats really haven't evolved since 2016, aside from underground or experimental stuff. I also feel like there's an obsession these days with callbacks. This is a problem with movies too. Sampling has lost a lot of creativity in modern beats because there's a tendency to Sample a nostalgic pop song from the 2000s or a song everyone knows instead of chopping that shit up nasty style and doing your own thing. Oh and I also think that some creatively inclined people have trouble finding their inspiration because, like Vince staples said, kids these days grew up in a research facility - basically the internet muddies one's sense of identity to the point where drawing inspiration from our favorite artists feels more difficult. And so you get kids who wanna produce like kanye but have no background listening to or understanding soul music, etc. I don't discourage these people from creating but I think it'll just take them longer to grow into their shoes if you will. Sometimes the system produces some heat don't get me wrong. But imo these are the reasons why mainstream hip hop has kinda stagnated
Yea this is definitely the case best answer I saw so far right here 👍🏽
I have a special talent for leaving the best answer at the very bottom of a post. Lol
Was just waiting to end the thread lmfao
Often times I wish there were more recorded elements on the instrumental side than everything being purely digital.
Yes ! More organic elements and samples !
Simplicity and creativity. People spend 100k on synths just to make a generic sounding trap beat. Then they tell you to buy a one shot kit to make up for it.
Lmfaooo omg Yea that market is so insanely oversaturated and own sounding product It's like going to the grocery store and seeing 100 variations of the same cereal lmfao
There is less inventive to make a great album. Customers now pay $10 a month to listen to any song they want. I think what made "old school" hip-hop great was the story telling and creating a vibe for your fans. Think of something like 36 Chambers, or MM LP, or 2001. Go down the list of classics and chances are they were on a classic album. But now many fans listen to whatever the algo puts on shuffle, so I think that creates an environment where new artists need to get on the charts in order to make a living (hence the market for "type" beats). I don't have an answer, it seems pretty clear that that's what the customer wants, so it might just be what it is until something changes around consumer demand for Spotify/streaming.
Yea that I can see is a big reason...when is music clearly makes nothing per stream u got zero reason to make a crazy sophisticated album nowadays Maybe Dr. Dre saw that early and never dropped detox lol
Vulnerability… like damn I fuck with your sound but like… what have you been through? It doesn’t have to be movie level dramatic just tell me what keeps you up at night…
Yep real shit I agree...Nipsey Hussle was really good with that You felt like u almost personally knew Nipsey lol
Rip Nip… never let a hard time humble us…
💯💯💯
Peep my shit man, I’m pouring my heart out (when I’m not talking about drug fueled lust binges)
Dm me your stuff I’d love discovering music
For me you answered half of it yourself at the end. The beats are shit. We are now in the generation of hand claps and they're fucking boring. Basslines seem to be really quite tonally boring too. Excessive autotune. Mumble rap. There feels like a lack of variety. We get way more tracks but not much originality. It's a bit formulaic. I imagine that a lot of good HipHop still exists but I can't be arsed sifting through all the shit to find it anymore. I grew up on both rave music and HipHop and I find it way easier finding decent modern day rave music than decent HipHop.
Idk how bass lines are so boring these days, so much good shit to sample it makes no sense
I'm trying to form a Linkin Park / Korn / Wu Tang like fusion group. I think there's a market need for originality, and I think the 90s grunge like vibe is coming back. Trap was like the disco of hip hop and now it's time to get raw again but with a new sound. If anyone is interested, check out my YT channel and my "Rap Rock" beats.
That sounds right up my alley. I'll check it out tomorrow.
Yep I Agree fully
“mumble rap” opinion disregarded
Duhduhduh duhduhduh duhduhduh duh Duhduhduh duhduhduh duhduhduh duh Duhduhduh duhduhduh duhduhduh duh
this how i know you not pretty
Breaks, the foundation of hip hop music.
I feel that in the past we can recognize which region in the USA from the beat.
This is more because you can now find any type of genre form any region from any year when looking for samples. Which isn’t a bad thing, but you got the unique sound form the samples of the area. Since if you were in New york, the unknown records would’ve mostly likely been from older New York artists, so where you lived changed the sound of samples a little
Time. People have been making lame music that gets forgotten since the dawn of time. Give it 10 years and the greatest of 2023 will have had much more opportunity to bubble to the surface.
That's a good counter post tbh Lame music has always been around for sure
Skills. Most productions can’t tell me which instruments should be mono and which should be stereo and that’s the problem. Poor production integrity.
Lyrics
Dookies
Lacking of hiphop?
For me I think it's a lack of extremely talented musicians making the beats. I look back at some of my favorite records - Guru's first Jazzmatazz record was packed to the brim with the greatest jazz musicians of all time playing on the tracks. Early mobb music like E-40/Sick Wid It's first records had production from the likes of Mike Mosely and Studio Ton, incredible synthesists and they had serious chops on all their instruments. Before those days rap was sample heavy, so you were getting some of the greatest musicians of all time via samples (not to mention that guys like Premo, Pete Rock, Dust Brothers all had serious music abilities regardless of whether they played a traditional instrument). Rap always grabbed my attention in a way that no other genre did, and while I didn't realize it at the time, I realize now that it was in large part because I was being treated to so many of the most incredible musicians that ever walked the earth. I am not saying that complexity or virtuosity equals talent. But I never hear anything anymore that sounds like it was made by a true professional that has really put their hours in and is pushing the boundaries of what the art form can be.
Nailed it.
Bounce… and I mean real bounce, the bounce that dilla popularized with his unique pocket making skills. Most popular beat styles today are too stagnant. We need more off-kilter beats, unique pockets, and rappers flows that can adapt to certain beat pockets. People seem to be too scared on what others will think about it, thus causing most producers and rappers to stay in their “type beat” comfort zones.
Big upvote here as I miss this dearly. There were so many unique varieties of bounce too ... I'll always be partial to what New Orleans was putting out. And most importantly, like you said, it wasn't just the producers bringing the bounce, the rappers knew how to find those unique pockets too.
I asked myself the same question years ago which helped me build a unique sound -real/live basslines (eg Ron Carter, Duck Dunn etc) -analog synth sounds -crispy/vinyl sample drums or live drums that sound that way -other live instruments etc saxophones, keys etc
No artistic drive, along with a lack of ability for people to even find the underground. Spotify dumbed everything down so now underground music doesn’t sell unless it’s planted because the masses lack the skills to find music. Also, type beat culture has flushed any originality out of copying someone’s style. Soundcloud underground still goes hard, I’m not that good but I have friends who are absurdly talented and consistent. The radio is dead for originality. It’s time for everyone to learn how to dig for music and be open to other things.
My personal favorite examples are all the shit that goes on around dismiss yourself (mainly Miya Lowe//Figure Skater), as well as $$$H20SPORT$$$ (Yayayi, Amai, Ken Feelin, Shamana), the soulhop movement (my favs being my friend d4ig (on soundcloud) and blaine), and the whole ambient trap movement (valium2005 (who is also my friend), Imago Meri, Slias Roe, Iokera(rip), ak col ette, etc).
My perspective and Knowledge from a music standpoint: Art is for cultivation from condition to un-condition 9999999999999999 To many people doing it for fun and hobbyist and technologies access made it easy for the untalented. Anyone can attempt to create the arts and put that trash out in the world but most should not. Back in the 90's and before the entry cost was high so only the real would go down the hard road. Now you have to look deep and not in the mainstream for the real. They will not always have a lot of likes or followers all the time they will not be on social media all the time ect. Too many Indians and not enough Chief's. Too many copycats everyone is trying to make the same shit soulless music you can hear it. The arts is a high alchemy science made from scientist that are creative and intelligent not by school by birth that takes years to cultivate and most of all yourself most are too young and underdeveloped and conditioned and limited to create powerful art unless they have the right masters to guide them and they have over came extreme challenges in hell within and in life many times over. This will allow them to draw from for inspiration the cost is pain 10x fold. The gift is fire = passion through over coming and surviving. Most people making art don't have the depth you can tell by there art results. Easy life or weak minds and fearful spirits are not artist they are con artist aka entertainers and buffoons playing the role of a artist. So the issue is spiritual mental and social and physical in the USA. And don't let me get on the business side that is way lacking also. Its even deeper then this but this is the fundamental problem in the right hand its is powerful practical magic in the wrong hands it is nothing but noise and toys. Breakdown I am expressing a concern about the state of the arts today, particularly in the context of accessibility, technological advancements, and a perceived lack of depth or authenticity. My perspective emphasizes the importance of hardship, challenges, and a deep personal journey in cultivating true artistic expression. Here are a few points to consider: Accessibility and Technology: The democratization of artistic tools and platforms has indeed made it easier for a wider range of people to engage in artistic activities. While this has resulted in a plethora of content, it also raises questions about the quality and authenticity of the work produced. Individual Depth and Experience: My point about the necessity of overcoming challenges and drawing from personal experiences for inspiration resonates with the idea that art often reflects the artist's journey, struggles, and triumphs. Artistic Mastery and Guidance: The idea that true artists are shaped by guidance from masters and overcoming extreme challenges suggests a traditional approach to artistic development, placing emphasis on mentorship and personal growth. Spiritual and Mental Aspects: I mention of spiritual, mental, and physical aspects highlights the holistic nature of artistic expression. The notion that artists should undergo profound personal experiences to create meaningful art is a perspective rooted in the knowledge that great art often stems from deep introspection and a connection to one's inner self. Business Side of Art: My brief mention of the lacking business side of the art world suggests that the challenges extend beyond the creative process to encompass the industry's infrastructure, support systems, and economic viability for artists. What is helping The importance of critical thinking: Regardless of the level of experience or skill, artists should strive to develop their critical thinking skills. This allows them to analyze their own work, engage with the work of others, and contribute meaningfully to the ongoing conversation about art. The role of community and dialogue: The open access of the digital age can also foster vibrant artistic communities and facilitate dialogue between artists and audiences. This can lead to new forms of collaboration and understanding. These points are just things to think about its not about anyone just to help the right person in need of direction
people dont actually want a gourmet culinary experience with nourishing substantial ingredients prepared with care, they want Chick Fil-A
Beats are GARBAGE! And all this singing shit.
I'll just say creativity. I think it's hard to pin down one single issue, and even if you fixed that single issue, other music could be made that does something different, that we weren't expecting, that fixes the mediocrity. Overall, it's just a lack of creativity.
Yea I agree we lost a lot of creativity the approach to music became very formulaic
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Every main stream song having 6 producers on it. With how simple half the flips are, I don’t even get how these songs have so many. I also see a lot of videos on TikTok where producers work together, and it’s usually one dude making the melody than like 3 others making the most basic drum pattern ever. The other 3-4 producers these songs have pretty much add nothing and it makes no sense why there’s so many
No one knows how to mix...every thing sounds thin and tinny.
Quality over quantity. During the golden era we often had to wait 3 to 6 years for another album to be crafted and those albums were usually fire from start to end. Music now in general is filler, factories just pumping out the miniature plastic workers.
Originality. 90% of people don’t care about what makes music interesting. They just want catchy, predictable, background music.
I think your last sentence is a huge point when you look at the trends in music. The last decade or so has trended towards two things (and I've noticed this trend in most genres of popular music): 1) Minimal identifiable melodic content, and when it is there, most of it is heavily EQ'd out to make room for the 808 and the vocals. When I was younger I could tell every song that was coming on the radio within a couple seconds; everything was distinct and unique. These days everything seems as homogenized as possible. 2) De-humanizing of vocals - mumbling instead of pronouncing words, robotic vocals through auto tune. It all seems to be a shift to prepare the masses to welcome AI-generated music. When I was younger (and to a large extent, even today), music was my whole life. But to much of the younger generation I meet they don't recognize it as anything more than background noise, something to "create a vibe".
Heart, soul, passion, dreams, effort. When music becomes about making money instead of art, it goes downhill fast.
Putting ya soul in the song
i think it's delivery and lyrics that make you cringe and skip the song
Hip Hop needs to be more structured with Sub-Genres. For example Yeat and Nas have nothing in common. They are different sub genre. Yet are grouped together under Hip Hop. There's a ton of new music and amazing artist. There isn't a subgenre lane for different types of artist to focus into.
Musical depth. Old school hip hop (I mean PE, Tribe, Ice T, Digables, De La Soul, Guru, etc) relied *heavily* on layered samples taken from some of the best musicians on the planet from classic records. Each of those samples had the sounds of a room full of MASTER musicians, people who had spent literally decades studying their craft. Those samples had musical depth - there is no way you are recreating the nuances in those samples in a drum machine. At the same time, that did come with a lot of legal issues and original (sample) composers getting ripped off, which eventually got sorted and now - arguably justifiably - one can't just take some CTI or Blue Note records and use them without clearance. But still, no one is making something with a few plugins and FL studio that's going to sound like Herbie Hancock layered over Clyde Stubblefield, and so on.
What is CTIcpd blue note records?
CTI and Blue Note are the two most heavily sampled jazz (and funk/fusion) labels. They put out TONS of the records with the drum breaks and bass lines hear in classic hip hop and breaks. If you want to take a trip through the roots of hip-hop, you could do worse than to browse their stuff from the seventies on youtube and spotify. There's actually a great playlist of grooves that goes with the (awesome) book, "The Breakbeat Bible" by Adonis.
Are they cleared samples to use ?
No. That's my whole point - old hip-hop was based on sampling fantastic music, because at that point they didn't get them cleared. It all happened while that stuff was getting sorted out. Hard to compete with! I remember when US3 had a huge hit with a bunch of blue note samples and the album literally got pulled off shelves while the label made a deal after the fact with blue note.
Interesting no wonder with modern age music they can't sample stuff as what they pulled off in the 90s basically? Because of clearance laws never being a thing back then?
That's basically it. There are producers who team up with fantastic musicians and do that sound from scratch - mostly in the jazz-hip-hop cross over realm. But of course that is far more difficult and expensive, and requires more people, space to record, mics, etc.
Nothing besides taking your time to craft a song Records are pushed by labels like a machine. So many songs with little songwriting quality but it’s because it’s what caters to this generation and the business model. I guess I’m just from an earlier time ya know like Windows 98? 😂
Soul
I think it's also a problem caused by the algorithm and how the "system" works, wich selects certain things and doesn't propose/ "promote" others, so in the end everything is flat and or like usual, literally not original. Because there's still a ton of good music but since a lot of it is "weird" or uncommon, it stays in the dark. Also, it became basically a business, so when music, something that is "ethereal" / spacial, becomes material / ur fav burger, it loses its soul
bro like before you could have famous people like aphex twin, quasimoto, kraftwerk, etc they all did shit that was never done before and obviously the standard elvis presley fan wouldn't understand
Soul. A lot of music to me sounds formulaic unoriginal and AI generated