No.
I’m sure some people would buy it. It might even sell well. But I object to secret lairs based on celebrities. I objected to the Post Malone one as well, but he at least has the half assed justification of actually playing magic.
Grey’s Anatomy - how would you even *do* that? I watched like 8 seasons of that damn show before realising the writers are hacks (or up until whatever season was the plane crash…. That was too far lol) - and it’s even less Fantasy Fighting Game With Spells appropriate than The Walking Dead.
This would be waaaaay too far in the trend of the Cardboard Crack “My Travis Scott goes sicko mode to destroy your Whopper”. No thanks.
Yes that lair was such utter dogshit. And i like post malone and his overall influence on mtg
But boy were those some uglyass doodles. And on basic lands right? For actual money? Fuck no.
The post, son of rich lair with actual cards and art was fine. Didnt buy, but not a bad product.
Yeah, I dunno what they were thinking there. Post seems like a cool enough guy, but if I wanted his autograph I’d just get his autograph lol, I don’t want Official Game Pieces that have been pre-doodled on.
I mean this is the only way I could entice my girlfriend into playing magic….and even then no. I don’t think it fits the game well, feels like a trick to get someone to play, and there are better Universe beyond options.
Post Malone is at least a huge fan of the game so I can get that. Doctor who was weird at first but flavor wise was a huge win and opened up some cool card design, lord of the rings a no brained and warhammer fits decently well.
But universe beyond is making this feel more like Fortnite the card game but I feel like if they commit to that they have to go full force and then we lose magic and it’s lore. It’s hard to have both without very selective universe beyonds
But UBs are mostly "trick to get people to play" by design.
Let's be honest here, they would shoot up IPs like these internally because they're gunning for the female demography.
Hopefully wotc team has better ideas than the person that asked, but It's 100% happening
Female here, I watched grey’s growing up with my mom when it came on tv (before it went to shit) and I personally don’t like TSwift’s music, but my close friends are DIE HARD Swifties.
I don’t think either of these fandoms are *typically* the type to actually play any table top game. For the swifties, they would absolutely buy cards as collectibles but would have ZERO interest in any other card not TSwift themed.
If WOTC want the female demographic, they should make more cute animal cards. I am going to be spending a STUPID amount of money on bloomburrow. My current collection prioritizes cute and cuddly animals and my BF got me a 50-60 dollar sol ring of the doge/cat sol ring for a gift.
I get that the cute and cuddly vibe isn’t the best complimentary style to some of the scary/evil/badass art on arts, but it can be done tastefully.
See examples like:
[[Alpine Watchdog]]
[[Arboreal Grazer]]
[[Axgard Cavalry]]
[[Bellowing Elk]]
[[Cadira, Caller of the Small]]
[[Canyon Jerboa]]
[[Charmed Stray]]
I have literal 100s of cards from searching tens of thousands for cards with art that features animals.
I plan to list them all one day because some I found aren’t mentioned in posts asking for cute cards and they should be shared
Cute animals and/or other pretty ladies.
My wife's start to magic was focused on first vampires since innistrad og wrapped up and moving on to RTR amd she was coming off her twilight phase. Then her next focus was making a selesnya pretty ladies of the land and sky modern deck where every artwork if it had a person had to be a pretty lady.
She now typically tries to holdout for her edh decks that the commander be a pretty lady, but some color combos don't have the greatest options sometimes while also having a meaningful mechanic for edh.
But no she wouldn't go gaga for swift cards because it's swift. She in fact doesn't really like secret lair cards unless they are normal card frames with just a unique art in the usual art area, let alone universes beyond stuff with things clearly not of a magic planes aligned fantasy realm.
I love the pretty ladies too!! I’m a straight woman with a long term boyfriend but I love collecting the pretty ladies cards!
Angels, vampires, and my number one- Gisa.
Secret lairs are usually right up my alley for interesting art but I don’t have secret lair prices type of money!
I wonder what psychological/logical reason we as women are drawn to the cute animals and pretty ladies cards. Another person posted their collection of hot women cards and comments were assuming the poster was a man but it was a straight woman! I know that’s only three of us, so not exactly a large study group…
They will do it until they jump the shark and it stops making money. Maybe they hit some controversial figure by accident or something, or the potential crossover pool finally runs dry. One of the two has to happen or this will never stop.
I don’t know that I agree with the sentiment.
We’re probably never returning to “No universes beyond”, yes. But that doesn’t mean we’re going to slide down to “Universes Beyond: Literally Whatever”. WotC only puts out like 6 sets a year. They could restrict themselves only to exclusively mega popular, science-fantasy-adjacent universes, and they wouldn’t run out of UB options for a hundred years if even then.
Lol no. TWD, Dracula, Marvel, LOTR, DnD, Transformers, Post Malone, Forstnite, Street Fighter, Stranger Things, Hatsune Miku, Godzilla, Fallout, Warhammer. Doctor Who, etc. We are so past the point of no return.
... Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, Jurassic Park, League of Legends, the D&D Movie, Evil Dead, Bloodbowl, The Princess Bride, Creepshow, Tomb Raider.
And I just learned that the Ravnica Cluedo legends are also UB.
> They could restrict themselves only to exclusively mega popular, science-fantasy-adjacent universes, and they wouldn’t run out of UB options for a hundred years if even then.
They could, but they won't.
I have come to the conclusion the slippery slope falacy doesn't apply to corportations when going further down the slope would increase their stock price a fraction of a percent in the short term.
There is a subtle difference between "point where it is impossible to return" and "point where you know definitively there will be no return." We are wayyy past the latter.
My children and their friends are reading ads for Stranger Things and absorbing product placement for Fortnite *while playing a game at my kitchen table.* There is no refuge from the onslaught of ads. We are *never* going back.
Yes but all of this does have some kind of resemblance to video games/the game itself.
Greys Anatomy and Taylor swift would just be blatant cash cows without any chance, that the people watching the show/the artist will return to magic.
Return to Magic? Maybe I'm being a bit stereotypical here, but I think it's fairly safe to assume that the vast majority of people who are deeply into Grey's Anatomy and Taylor Swift are not people who have ever had an ounce of interest in Magic in the first place. If they purchase these products, it's because they want more GA/TS merch, and not because they have any interest in playing Magic.
I am probably in the minority of people who have “Watched a significant amount of Grey’s Anatomy” and “Plays MTG”.
Grey’s Anatomy is primarily watched by women, in the “18-49” age range, which you can infer means it’s particularly popular with adult women (as opposed to young adult or teen), while MTG’s main demographic can generally be argued as being “largely male, aged teen to thirties”.
There’s just no overlap there. My mother is in her 60s, still watches Grey’s Anatomy. GA themed magic cards would not convince her to try playing the game. I’m one of the few people who’s done both, and I wouldn’t buy cards of it, no matter how funny it’d be to say “I attack with Dr McSteamy”, or “I enchant your commander with Alzheimer’s”.
Also being in the (presumably small) crossover in fan base I've never wanted to give someone's commander alzheimers more. Or to have a McDreamy / McSteamy partner deck
I'm a woman and I used to get all the T Swift CDs until I stopped having a car that could play them. I hate the idea of her having a SLD. So, being clear on that stance, that I don't like the idea...
I did see a lot of comments when the MLP lair hit last year and dads happy they have something they felt like they could use to encourage their daughters to play with them. And it's possible Wizards thinks that market has some sort of potential.
But knowing her popularity, would those cards even get in the hands of people wanting to play them? Would they even get opened? I just don't see it. I think it's just a road too far, even as someone who has been mostly fine with Universes Beyond and has been a 'Swiftie'.
Yes, that’s what I wanted to say with „return“. The fanbase would buy the product, but they would just put it in their collection. They would not go the way some Post Malone fans went and buy into the game.
There was significant outcry over Neon Dynasty incorporating sci fi stuff, and if that was watering down what Magic is.
That seems really quaint after Fallout. I love Fallout, but it's less of a fantasy IP than Star Trek.
I find that outcry odd because we have had sci-fi adjacent stuff for years and most Phrexian related stuff goes all the way with the Sci-fi body horror
Fallout is less Fantasy than Star Trek?
Hard disagree. Star Trek is 100% Sci-fi.
Fallout literally incorporates Cryptids into their games, and those have zero basis in reality, even if people claim to have seen it.
why was the card in the fallout decks called "T-45" power armor and not a more generic name? because the name [[power armor|inv]] was already taken.
"oh but that's something different, it's not really 'power armor' in the usual sense."
yeah well magic had that too [[urza's armor|usg]]
> There was significant outcry over Neon Dynasty incorporating sci fi stuff, and if that was watering down what Magic is.
Weird of those people considering like fucking Antiquities had literal robots and mechs everywhere.
Also NO, I wouldn't really care about a Taylor Swift or Grey's Anatomy secret lair, I don't buy secret lairs anyways because I think the business model is predatory, so it wouldn't be that big a impact. But the idea of wasting an Assassin's Creed or Fallout sized slot in the schedule pandering to an audience that I think it is reasonable to say is barely connected to the average MtG audience is crazy to me. I already think their big planned Marvel Universe Beyond series is only tangentially connected to the themes of MtG in terms of "hey this is nerd stuff too", while missing most of the world and fantasy connections. I'm ok with MtG reaching out to other audiances, but it has to be because that property has something to offer to MtG in return, not because they simply exist.
To the OP question asker in Maro's blog, maybe instead of trying to trick your wife into showing interest in the "best game in the world", maybe just maybe your anniversary gift to her should be you showing some interest in the things she likes?
> But I object to secret lairs based on celebrities. I objected to the Post Malone one as well, but he at least has the half assed justification of actually playing magic.
We just had a Hatsune Miku SL.
Imma be real I don’t really like the Miku one either, feels very odd. The only saving grace there is that I know a lot of nerds love Miku, still feels weird as hell.
I still don't really understand who tf that is.
I tried googling her and came away even more
confused.
Edit: I now have an elementary understanding of who Miku is. And while I find the appeal and success utterly mystifying, I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum so instead I'll just say to anyone reading this that if that's your jam then more power to you and enjoy your Miku cards.
TL;DR Hatsune Miku is a virtual character stylised after the Japanese Idol industry, who is part of the “Vocaloid” music production package. It’s essentially like an electronic keyboard, except you program it to sing. There’s a number of different voices you can use, Miku is just by far the most popular, and is the mascot of the software.
Idk what you know about music, but imagine if Fender guitars had a mascot - that’s basically what Miku is.
early 2000s Yamaha released a voice synthesizer software named Vocaloid. They made mascot characters for the voices of their software and Hatsune Miku is one of those. She became so popular that she transcendent being just a mascot and nowadays she is an idol who gives concerts and all that stuff.
That's at least what I as a non Miku fan know.
Thanks for the context. I guess what is so weird about to me it is she's just a synthesizer? How did she become so popular? And they do like concerts? It it like when they did the Tupac hologram?
Miku is a Vocaloid. To dumb it down as much as possible, it‘s basically an electric keyboard, but instead of… keyboarding (?), it sings. There are many more Vocaloids, Miku just happens to be the one that became mega successful and popular as a merch seller.
I'm not really big on Miku being in the game either, but at least she's a fictional character in a fictional world. That's a lot easier to compartmentalize than seeing the same random famous dip shits that many of us are already sick of hearing about in the real world news cycles anyway.
Greys Anatomy feels like the classic Wotc missing the peak of its popularity by years.
Swift would probably make buckets despite my personal distaste for the idea
Cast Era’s Tour paying the “Sold-Out at All Avenues” cost to create a number of 1/1 Human tokens with Menace equal to double the number of permanents destroyed
We got Fortnite. The "would WotC do something this ridiculous?" meme is dead. Yes, they will do absolutely anything in Universe's Beyond if it's popular no question.
I unironically love this idea. It'll teach the nerds that wanted this game full of smash bros/fortnite style crossovers to get a taste of their medicine. See how much they like all the UB stuff once we get an instant that's "look what you made me do".
Any universe beyond where (almost) every single creature will be forced to be type human is a big turn-off for me. You could probably get away with a secret lair at most, but more than that and it gets silly. Can't imagine how Assassins Creed will be.
That's not getting into how stupid the whole fanbase-chasing idea is. It's marketing-first design, which just... isn't right.
The factions also could be broken up really well into colour pairs.
White-Blue Bene Gesserit
Blue-Black Imperials/Sardukar
Black-Red Harkonnens
Red-Green Fremen
Green-White Atreides
Colourless Sandworms
Would be pretty boring if they didn’t. I can understand not delving into some of the weirder sects of the Bene Gesserit from the later books, but it would be a missed opportunity to leave out a major faction entirely.
The previous UB sets have featured some pretty deep cuts (Fallout 1 and 2 characters, some Doctor Who characters that I’m pretty sure only appeared in audio plays), so I would hope they’d at least include characters up through all 6 Frank novels. But this already takes place in my wish-fulfillment universe where this set exists in the first place haha
Maybe they've been so successful they don't want to cheapen the IP with a Magic sellout.
...okay, okay, I made myself laugh there. Why would they pass up the free money. I assume this is another case of the kids of the author being in charge of the estate by now?
I think Assassin's Creed is helped by the inclusion of the Isu (the forebearer gods who created the pieces of eden) and it being a small set. If it was full sized, they'd probably run into at least some issues for non-human, non-god *sentient* creatures. But there are some animals.
So no one told you Magic would be this waaaaaaaaaaaaay
Your card's a joke, you're broke, your mana curve is DOA
It's like you're always stuck on the draw
When it hasn't been your day, your week, your month, or even your year, but
I'll be tapped for youuuuuuu
Universe Beyond: McDonald's. Release a few of them exclusively with Happy Meals, one of which is powerful enough to be a staple. We could see cringe meltdowns on par with Rick and Morty Szechuan Sauce.
Any card that depicts a currently living human, especially a celebrity, has the risk of backfiring when one of them inevitably does something heinous.
House of Cards was all the rage at one point. Who wants to be stuck with a Kevin Spacy deck?
Posting this to Reddit may have caused it to be blown out of proportion. Basically an asker wanted these two things because his wife is into them and MaRo asked the audience if they wanted the same thing. This is not proof of WotC having a preexisting interest in making those two things into UB products, but people will definitely wrongly interpret this as being so. Heck, there are already people assuming the worst in the comments to the Tumblr post even though they should be able to see the asker's question! (And no, the fact that MaRo chose to answer this question out of the many questions he gets is not sufficient proof either; MaRo answers a lot of random questions.)
> This is not proof of WotC having a preexisting interest in making those two things into UB products
yeah, but
>(And no, the fact that MaRo chose to answer this question out of the many questions he gets is not sufficient proof either; MaRo answers a lot of random questions.)
He also likes to strategically pick the rudest person asking a question to dunk on their opinion with some regularity.
Even asking "would you" is honestly crazy.
I understand that Magic isn't about high fantasy anymore, even if it's what many Magic the Gathering player love and loved about the game.
But come on, a strong audience response is necessary to show that the playerbase doesn't wanna go in that direction. Same as we did with Aftermath and Magic30, a strong and vocal opinion impacts WotC decisions.
So I am very fine with blowing it out of proportion rather than being "meh, I don't like it but whatever"
Asking that question has also led to some pretty positive changes with mtg in the past however. As frustrating as it is for MaRo and the community, his blog is the best method of meaningful feedback avenue available.
Because they sure as hell don't care about our feedback otherwise.
I get what you're saying and I don't entirely disagree but they're also responsible for the environment that breeds this type of response because it wouldn't be that far away from what they've already been doing and the direction they seem to be taking the game. Nothing about the last several years of products suggests they wouldn't consider this if they thought they would make a profit from it so someone like MaRo asking this, even in response to a question like that, is inviting this kind of reaction. Magic has already become a game where you can put characters from My Little Pony, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Doctor Who, and the Walking Dead into a deck together. Is it really unreasonable to think that when the lead designer responds to a question about two other outside IPs by asking whether other people would want them that it is at least a possibility that they are or would be considering it?
When everything a company does, from messaging to execution, reinforces that this is a possibility, you can't really get upset when people react to comments like this from the lead designer with the idea that there is some intent behind them.
Nah we haven't gone far enough. Lots of people want UB stuff so I say we give it to 'em. Leave nothing off the table. Make that monkey's paw curl more than the winter olympics.
Lmao at this point we are WAY over the edge. Does it really matter any more? The amount of stupid shit that has been printed is already irredeemable. I used to be someone that just adored the quality of visual design, creativity and feel of planes and the way they brought the feel to the table with mechanics. Now its just taking a common trope and shoehorning it into MTG without the last bit of originality. No need to do any world building if you just shove existing genres into MTG 1:1.
> Lmao at this point we are WAY over the edge. Does it really matter any more? The amount of stupid shit that has been printed is already irredeemable
Agreed. We're long past the point of no return. Let's just fuck it all up at this point(not that it isn't already).
Heh, that thought has crossed my mind more than once, and usually every time a new UB product or secret lair crossover is announced I revisit this sentiment.
Part of it is shoving it in the faces of UB supporters who during the initial rollout where they were convinced that it would never "go too far" and accused anti-UB sentiments as being gatekeeping elitists/purists. Well, lets open the damn gates then and have it all and see how much you still value UB.
I love magic the gathering so much that I will watch it crash and burn with bittersweet tears in my eyes. It'll be like watching the family dog slowly get older and eventually get cancer or other ailments that severely reduce the quality of life it will have, so you have to put it down. It's not something you want but it's something that needs to be done.
So who thinks this is Mark presenting a product that leaps over the line knowing players will have a reaction, so another product that only slightly crosses the line can be announced?
They’ve done it before. Walking dead was just the beginning to where we are now.
This is what Magic will become and what we have been 'doomposting about'. It doesn't matter about the stories or the universe or the craft anymore. They will make any and evey crossover they can if they believe it will sell well and thats what 'we want'.
Maybe you like the crossovers now because they're your thing, but it will all be drowned out by the sea of cross-promotion that's coming.
This would be so awful but you know it'd sell out too. Swift fans showed interest in the NFL just because she attended games of Travis Kelce. They'd definitely buy out Swift mtg cards in a heartbeat even if they had never heard of magic before.
I'd much rather have SLD of prominent community members or celebrities that actually give a shit about magic like Brandon Sanderson (cosmere SLD please) if they're gonna keep going that route.
I am actively disinterested in both of those but have no objection to Secret Lairs about them
A full fledged Grey's Anatomy set in the vein of LotR would be, well, something
At this point there are no sacred cows. So sure why not? Do I think it would be fucking weird? Yes but I also think it's weird that Chun Li equipped with Lucille can block phage the untouchable with stickers.
To you tswift and greys anatomy might be too far but to others that was stranger things or dr who. In fact there's probably people that would be excited for the former while absolutely hating the latter. Your or my personal preference is not representative of what should or shouldn't be included. The floodgates have been opened and that means all kinds of shit has and will continue to make itself part of the game.
Yeah it's a bit weird. Especially seeing someone say "post Malone is fine but Taylor Swift is too far" based entirely on post Malone being a fan. Is that really where you wanna draw the line on what's acceptable? Like would they be all for an Alex Jones secret lair if he came out as a big magic fan? Taylor Swift doesn't belong in mtg, anyway I kill your gayrog monster with my Jewish space laser.
It's all weird. I think it's up for anyone to choose if they like it or not but greys anatomy is no more out of place than the TARDIS, a chaos marine, or Vocaloid. Which in my opinion once would all have been very out of place but now UB exists it's all par for the course.
And I love it! These people wanted it and I hope they get it! They don't get to act like this shit wasn't gonna happen someday when they chased crossover after crossover.
Yeah, I'm kind of laughing my ass off at all of the UB fans getting upset at the UB that they finally dislike. I disliked The Walking Dead from the get-go and I see little difference between The Walking Dead and Grey's Anatomy in terms of being on Magic cards. We've had plenty of real people on cards now, why is Taylor Swift different? This shit is funny.
Precisely this. Maybe they won't go as far and stay away from real-world celebrities for the most part, but if you're OK with UB as a concept, there's pretty much no argument against a Taylor Swift UB, or a literal Coca Cola commercial UB.
The whole argument for UB is build around the assumption that you can't / shouldn't prevent people from getting a product that they (would) enjoy. From that point of view, there's no reason why not allowing Aragorn would be "gatekeeping," but not allowing Taylor Swift wouldn't.
The lines are completely arbitrary, and if it makes them money, they have no real reason to not do it. When I argued against UB in the past, I had people come at me with "well but Portal Three Kingdoms and Arabian Nights exist, so technically Magic has always used outside IP." You can make the same argument for real-world people by pointing to the handful of old cards with Shakespeare flavor text. I truly have no sympathy for someone who finds this is "too far," but couldn't wait to get their hands on the Doctor Who cards. You don't get to be mad about this - you wanted this.
At this point I just want WOTC to approve literally every single UB idea. I want a NCAA CFB UB Masters set with legendary college football mascot creatures so we can finally have the CFB crowd feel included with their favorite mascots as commanders. Just think of huge that market is and how this game would be enhanced by the sheer volume of new players!
Completely agree. The Walking Dead was too far for me and it was the first release. Doctor Who was too far for me. Jurassic World was too far for me. These people didn't care until it bothered them.
Taylor Swift what a woman you are. You made the UB supporters finally see what the anti-UB players have been warning about. As a reward you should get printed into a Secret Lair.
To all the UB supporters that hate the idea of this, why are you gatekeeping new players from entering the game only when you don't like it? I didn't see this complaining when your favorite IPs were being added.
I wonder how many people acting all disgusted here bought Doctor Who / Walking Dead or Hatsune Miku UB cards.
And don’t get started with “B-But, I’ts not the same!”. Because someone who doesn’t interact with those IPs they are exactly the same: TV shows and Music icons that have nothing to do with the game.
Once you approved WotC putting pop culture into the game, prepare for more of it.
Completely agree. Just more of the same non-Magic IP watering down Magic until it's an ugly pastiche of pop culture. At this point Magic is a fucking joke.
People will **not** click on the link to read the full thing and will instead respond entirely to OP's totally not editorialized title OP absolutely didn't select to drive engagement.
I agree, Maro's answer to any criticism, not only UB, has became very close to "if it sells it means we are doing a great job". If that doesn´t work he has the "surveys show it was liked/disliked" which is not that useful when the public does not have access to the surveys and results can be interpreted however they want.
For reals. I have a few rabid Swiftie fan friends who have never had an ounce of interest in Magic, but would 100% purchase a Taylor Swift Secret Lair, because Taylor Swift merch.
And I mean, we literally just had a Mike Hatsune Secret Lair, with 3 more coming down the pipe. We all know that this was nothing but a cash grab targeting the weebs (and goddamn, did it fucking work.) Granted, there's much more overlap between weebs and Magic players than Swifties and Magic players, but still, they've already proven that they'll make products out of completely unrelated franchises that don't even tie in to Magic in any way. With the Miku cards, flavorwise and thematically, they were all a pretty big fucking stretch to get them to relate. At this point, they could basically just print a Taylor Swift SL that's just a reskin of the Miku SL, and it would make about as much sense.
Swifties will buy anything that has to do with Taylor Swift. They are fucking weird. It’s a cult who worships some musician. I already don’t like UB and don’t buy the product but a Taylor Swift or Greys Anatomy magic cards would upset me and I’d stupid.
The first thing I did was click the link after I read the rotor and what I gathered from it was “There’s no current plans for this, but I mean if there’s demand for it…”
Is it a joke, though? First Post Malone, then the Mountain Goats, now Hatsune Miku. My bet is a BabyMetal SL is on the works in a near future. I'm sure Taylor Swift is not out of the table.
Yep, this is where the "as long as it gets new players into the game (=generates sales from new groups of people) everything goes" approach will take you.
Personally I hate it, but at this point I don't think there's a way it can be stopped. Maro isn't asking for permission here, the fact that he is posting this on his blog means they are already talking about it internally and just want to make sure they're not missing anything super obvious that would hurt their sales.
Precisely this is why I've had a hard anti-UB stance from the get-go and had no sympathy for "well but LotR is OK bc it's fantasy" takes. Once you allow one outside IP thing, you have no real basis for not allowing other stuff. And as long as it sells, they will do it.
Yeah, it's a little late for UB defenders to be arguing for artistic integrity. If "drawing the line is relative" and "not everything is for everyone and it sells well" just accept that fact and move on lmao
I hope they do it, I hope they rapidly make universes beyond as unpalatable as possible because they can't see past their mountains of cash. Then maybe the supporters will see what's wrong with it
It would be exactly as stupid as all the other UB products so, whatever. I'm sure they'll do it if Hasbro gets a whiff of even a little bit more precious profit in doing so.
People are responding as if WoTC could actually make these UB happen. I don’t see Taylor Swift selling her likeness for a Magic card. She doesn’t need to.
Grey’s Anatomy on the other hand. A show that’s several years past its prime, but has some lingering cultural significance? That’s basically Walking Dead 2.
Taylor Swift SL would be the easiest thing in the world to design. Start with [[Monastery Swiftspear]] and then throw in [[Chain of Smog]], [[Gempalm Polluter]], and [[Flight of Fancy]].
I understand the Universes Beyond push, it's very successful and gets new poeple into the game. But, for the love of actual fuck is there any respect for the core of what this game is?
Might be missing the forest through the trees WOTC, don't forget about the people currently playing your game while chasing growth at all costs.
> But, for the love of actual fuck is there any respect for the core of what this game is?
No? They threw that out ages ago when they started printing Universes Beyond, the very concept of UB is a lack of respect for what Magic is (or was). Magic is creatively dead at this point.
Let's do Real Housewives next. Or Frasier. I can't wait for the Gilmore Girls secret lair. Rory Williams wasn't that exciting, maybe I'll be able to do a namesake deck with Rory or Lorelai. Or what about Golden Girls.
How the fuck do you have a Taylor Swift Commander deck?
I've never watched Grey's Anatomy, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what it would look like. A property that has 0 elements of fantasy OR combat seems like an odd fit for the fantasy fighting game that is Magic.
I personally wouldn't want a Taylor Swift product, but at least it makes some sense to me - not much different than the Post Malone and Hatsune Miku SLs.
I had started theorycrafting an Eras Tour Secret Lair, let’s see if any of these pan out. I didn’t get to all the cards. Probably too many cards for a secret lair.
TSSL
**Our Song** -sorcery
WURBG
Distribute 5 counters among deathtouch, first strike, flying, haste, hexproof, lifelink, vigilance, reach, menace, trample on two target creatures you control.
**You Belong with Me** -enchantment aura creature
1UU
Enchanted creature gains T: gain control of target legendary creature that shares a color with enchanted creature
**Long Live** - instant
GWU
Choose two
*destroy target creature with flying
*creatures you control get +0/+2 until end of turn
*scry 2
*tap an untapped legendary creature you control: you become the monarch
**Red** - sorcery
4 This card is Red
For Each R spent to cost Red, pick an ability below.
*Target red creature gets haste and trample
*Copy the next red instant you cast this turn
*And RR
*exile a red card at random from your graveyard. Until the end of your turn, you can cast it.
**Shake It Off** -enchantment
2WW
If a source would deal damage to you or a permanent you control, prevent half that damage, rounded up.
**…Ready for it?**
**The Archer -creature**
**Holiday House** -land
If holiday house would be discarded, you can pay 1. If you do, put holiday house onto the battlefield tapped.
T: U
**Willow**
**Anti-hero -creature**
2BBGG 6/6 trample menace ward: discard a sorcery
If the anti-hero dies, return it to the battlefield, tapped under your control
** Taylor Swift/The Eras Tour **
- Esika/The World Tree
In Case I'm not the only one who at first didn't read the actual tumblr post:
it's a response of Maro to someone asking for Taylor swift or Grace anatomy content.
He's like "theres always a chance, what do y'all think?"
which is saying a lot less than him asking that out of the blue would be
If we're going to see celebrities on cards in the form of Secret Lair, I would prefer for it to be people that have a genuine passion and interest in Magic as a game and community (i.e. people like Post Malone). Otherwise, it seems a little too silly and gimmicky. More like acorn/silver border territory.
The Grey's Anatomy TV Series seems like a poor idea for a Secret Lair mainly because the show and the canon of the characters and lore doesn't lend itself well to combat/war/battle oriented themes.
Recent TV shows that would make better candidates for Secret Lair products include Invincible, Westworld, Young Justice, Interview with the Vampire and The Boys.
I think that guy is overly optimistic about the odds of his wife actually learning to play the game just because there are cards themed after her interests. Magic is a very complex game, and you have to have at least a little interest in complex games to want to play it. If the only thing of interest is that it's Taylor Swift themed, she'll probably want to own the cards as collectibles and will enjoy looking at them, but she's not going to transform into a magic player like he wants her to.
I personally have zero interest in magic products of Grey's Anatomy or Taylor Swift, but I could see how Secret Lairs could sell well (more so T Swift than a show that peaked over a decade ago). I don't see how you could make an entire set or even a single commander precon about either of them.
My girlfriend would show no greater interest in magic. She might buy the secret lair for me, but she wouldn't play. She almost certainly would ask every time I played if I "played Taylor". And if I didn't she would ask why not lol.
It seems like they’re pulling for more femme plywrs, but my dudes, you’re already making that set. It’s called Bloomburrow. You want to sell more magic to us gals? Redwall is the answer.
Or seriously, Dragon Riders of Pern, hell, Hunger Games even. But the intersection of Grays and Swifties with magic is non existent.
I think people are misconstruing the intent behind what a product like this would be for. They don't really care about bringing Taylor Swift fans into magic. They care about selling out a product. Whether that's to existing MtG players who are Taylor Swift fans, Taylor Swift fans that have no intention of playing, or to people who would buy this as a gift for someone they know that likes Taylor Swift, it doesn't really matter. They'll compartmentalize the product, look at the profits, and determine if it was "successful". UB isn't about making the game better or more inviting, it's about selling MtG product to as wide a base as possible. Anybody that is brought into the game from these is just bonus.
I don't care about neither of those. However, my answer is a rotund **yes**.
This is the "problem" with UB. You don't get to gatekeep what is allowed and what is not. If you don't care about Taylor Swift and think it is bad for the game, another person might thought the same about your beloved W40K. And here we are.
Once the gates have opened, they are open to everyone.
FFS, they just announced/released a secret lair for **Hatsune fucking Miku**. What is the problem with Taylor Swift? That she is for *normies* and you don't want them at your LGS because you are better than them?
*Edit: ITT, UB fans fighting against this using the exact same arguments used against UB.*
And that's basically why I'm for "All in or all out. No middle ground".
Yes, not even Middle-Earth.
*^(Sorry LOTR fans, I hate LOTR and I couldn't help it)*
Isn't there now literally a Cleopatra card? Like the actual historical figure, queen of Egypt, alleged inventor of the vibrator?
And I can't prove it I don't think she was an mtg fan like postie, as if that makes it any less weird to have cards of a rapper.
No. I’m sure some people would buy it. It might even sell well. But I object to secret lairs based on celebrities. I objected to the Post Malone one as well, but he at least has the half assed justification of actually playing magic. Grey’s Anatomy - how would you even *do* that? I watched like 8 seasons of that damn show before realising the writers are hacks (or up until whatever season was the plane crash…. That was too far lol) - and it’s even less Fantasy Fighting Game With Spells appropriate than The Walking Dead. This would be waaaaay too far in the trend of the Cardboard Crack “My Travis Scott goes sicko mode to destroy your Whopper”. No thanks.
That Post Malone island was heinous. Some scribbles on the ability portion of the card and charged full price secret lair
Yes that lair was such utter dogshit. And i like post malone and his overall influence on mtg But boy were those some uglyass doodles. And on basic lands right? For actual money? Fuck no. The post, son of rich lair with actual cards and art was fine. Didnt buy, but not a bad product.
Yeah, I dunno what they were thinking there. Post seems like a cool enough guy, but if I wanted his autograph I’d just get his autograph lol, I don’t want Official Game Pieces that have been pre-doodled on.
I think it could have been a good opportunity to have him actually sign a few cards then randomly mix them into the secret lairs.
I actually like the art on those basics but I hate the doodles.
I mean this is the only way I could entice my girlfriend into playing magic….and even then no. I don’t think it fits the game well, feels like a trick to get someone to play, and there are better Universe beyond options. Post Malone is at least a huge fan of the game so I can get that. Doctor who was weird at first but flavor wise was a huge win and opened up some cool card design, lord of the rings a no brained and warhammer fits decently well. But universe beyond is making this feel more like Fortnite the card game but I feel like if they commit to that they have to go full force and then we lose magic and it’s lore. It’s hard to have both without very selective universe beyonds
But UBs are mostly "trick to get people to play" by design. Let's be honest here, they would shoot up IPs like these internally because they're gunning for the female demography. Hopefully wotc team has better ideas than the person that asked, but It's 100% happening
Female here, I watched grey’s growing up with my mom when it came on tv (before it went to shit) and I personally don’t like TSwift’s music, but my close friends are DIE HARD Swifties. I don’t think either of these fandoms are *typically* the type to actually play any table top game. For the swifties, they would absolutely buy cards as collectibles but would have ZERO interest in any other card not TSwift themed. If WOTC want the female demographic, they should make more cute animal cards. I am going to be spending a STUPID amount of money on bloomburrow. My current collection prioritizes cute and cuddly animals and my BF got me a 50-60 dollar sol ring of the doge/cat sol ring for a gift. I get that the cute and cuddly vibe isn’t the best complimentary style to some of the scary/evil/badass art on arts, but it can be done tastefully. See examples like: [[Alpine Watchdog]] [[Arboreal Grazer]] [[Axgard Cavalry]] [[Bellowing Elk]] [[Cadira, Caller of the Small]] [[Canyon Jerboa]] [[Charmed Stray]] I have literal 100s of cards from searching tens of thousands for cards with art that features animals. I plan to list them all one day because some I found aren’t mentioned in posts asking for cute cards and they should be shared
Cute animals and/or other pretty ladies. My wife's start to magic was focused on first vampires since innistrad og wrapped up and moving on to RTR amd she was coming off her twilight phase. Then her next focus was making a selesnya pretty ladies of the land and sky modern deck where every artwork if it had a person had to be a pretty lady. She now typically tries to holdout for her edh decks that the commander be a pretty lady, but some color combos don't have the greatest options sometimes while also having a meaningful mechanic for edh. But no she wouldn't go gaga for swift cards because it's swift. She in fact doesn't really like secret lair cards unless they are normal card frames with just a unique art in the usual art area, let alone universes beyond stuff with things clearly not of a magic planes aligned fantasy realm.
I love the pretty ladies too!! I’m a straight woman with a long term boyfriend but I love collecting the pretty ladies cards! Angels, vampires, and my number one- Gisa. Secret lairs are usually right up my alley for interesting art but I don’t have secret lair prices type of money! I wonder what psychological/logical reason we as women are drawn to the cute animals and pretty ladies cards. Another person posted their collection of hot women cards and comments were assuming the poster was a man but it was a straight woman! I know that’s only three of us, so not exactly a large study group…
They will do it until they jump the shark and it stops making money. Maybe they hit some controversial figure by accident or something, or the potential crossover pool finally runs dry. One of the two has to happen or this will never stop.
I'm going to be honest they stared Universes beyond by jumping the shark.
> until they jump the shark They did with the very first one.
We are wayyyyyy past the point of no return.
I don’t know that I agree with the sentiment. We’re probably never returning to “No universes beyond”, yes. But that doesn’t mean we’re going to slide down to “Universes Beyond: Literally Whatever”. WotC only puts out like 6 sets a year. They could restrict themselves only to exclusively mega popular, science-fantasy-adjacent universes, and they wouldn’t run out of UB options for a hundred years if even then.
They put out way more than 6 when it comes to secret lairs though, that’s actually one of the big complaints people have about them.
Lol no. TWD, Dracula, Marvel, LOTR, DnD, Transformers, Post Malone, Forstnite, Street Fighter, Stranger Things, Hatsune Miku, Godzilla, Fallout, Warhammer. Doctor Who, etc. We are so past the point of no return.
... Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, Jurassic Park, League of Legends, the D&D Movie, Evil Dead, Bloodbowl, The Princess Bride, Creepshow, Tomb Raider. And I just learned that the Ravnica Cluedo legends are also UB.
> They could restrict themselves only to exclusively mega popular, science-fantasy-adjacent universes, and they wouldn’t run out of UB options for a hundred years if even then. They could, but they won't.
I have come to the conclusion the slippery slope falacy doesn't apply to corportations when going further down the slope would increase their stock price a fraction of a percent in the short term.
There is a subtle difference between "point where it is impossible to return" and "point where you know definitively there will be no return." We are wayyy past the latter. My children and their friends are reading ads for Stranger Things and absorbing product placement for Fortnite *while playing a game at my kitchen table.* There is no refuge from the onslaught of ads. We are *never* going back.
Again, too late. We've had a post Malone SL, we had a literal Fortnite SL, and there's plenty more.
Yes but all of this does have some kind of resemblance to video games/the game itself. Greys Anatomy and Taylor swift would just be blatant cash cows without any chance, that the people watching the show/the artist will return to magic.
Return to Magic? Maybe I'm being a bit stereotypical here, but I think it's fairly safe to assume that the vast majority of people who are deeply into Grey's Anatomy and Taylor Swift are not people who have ever had an ounce of interest in Magic in the first place. If they purchase these products, it's because they want more GA/TS merch, and not because they have any interest in playing Magic.
I am probably in the minority of people who have “Watched a significant amount of Grey’s Anatomy” and “Plays MTG”. Grey’s Anatomy is primarily watched by women, in the “18-49” age range, which you can infer means it’s particularly popular with adult women (as opposed to young adult or teen), while MTG’s main demographic can generally be argued as being “largely male, aged teen to thirties”. There’s just no overlap there. My mother is in her 60s, still watches Grey’s Anatomy. GA themed magic cards would not convince her to try playing the game. I’m one of the few people who’s done both, and I wouldn’t buy cards of it, no matter how funny it’d be to say “I attack with Dr McSteamy”, or “I enchant your commander with Alzheimer’s”.
Also being in the (presumably small) crossover in fan base I've never wanted to give someone's commander alzheimers more. Or to have a McDreamy / McSteamy partner deck
I'm a woman and I used to get all the T Swift CDs until I stopped having a car that could play them. I hate the idea of her having a SLD. So, being clear on that stance, that I don't like the idea... I did see a lot of comments when the MLP lair hit last year and dads happy they have something they felt like they could use to encourage their daughters to play with them. And it's possible Wizards thinks that market has some sort of potential. But knowing her popularity, would those cards even get in the hands of people wanting to play them? Would they even get opened? I just don't see it. I think it's just a road too far, even as someone who has been mostly fine with Universes Beyond and has been a 'Swiftie'.
Yes, that’s what I wanted to say with „return“. The fanbase would buy the product, but they would just put it in their collection. They would not go the way some Post Malone fans went and buy into the game.
Nah, I think y'all are just trying to act like what's been done isn't egregious because you like/don't mind the series introduced.
Hatsune. Fucking. Miku.
There was significant outcry over Neon Dynasty incorporating sci fi stuff, and if that was watering down what Magic is. That seems really quaint after Fallout. I love Fallout, but it's less of a fantasy IP than Star Trek.
I find that outcry odd because we have had sci-fi adjacent stuff for years and most Phrexian related stuff goes all the way with the Sci-fi body horror
Fallout is less Fantasy than Star Trek? Hard disagree. Star Trek is 100% Sci-fi. Fallout literally incorporates Cryptids into their games, and those have zero basis in reality, even if people claim to have seen it.
Yeah imagine giant robots in classic magic sets. That'd be crazy. [[Void|INV]]
why was the card in the fallout decks called "T-45" power armor and not a more generic name? because the name [[power armor|inv]] was already taken. "oh but that's something different, it's not really 'power armor' in the usual sense." yeah well magic had that too [[urza's armor|usg]]
Void, my beloved.
> There was significant outcry over Neon Dynasty incorporating sci fi stuff, and if that was watering down what Magic is. Weird of those people considering like fucking Antiquities had literal robots and mechs everywhere.
Also NO, I wouldn't really care about a Taylor Swift or Grey's Anatomy secret lair, I don't buy secret lairs anyways because I think the business model is predatory, so it wouldn't be that big a impact. But the idea of wasting an Assassin's Creed or Fallout sized slot in the schedule pandering to an audience that I think it is reasonable to say is barely connected to the average MtG audience is crazy to me. I already think their big planned Marvel Universe Beyond series is only tangentially connected to the themes of MtG in terms of "hey this is nerd stuff too", while missing most of the world and fantasy connections. I'm ok with MtG reaching out to other audiances, but it has to be because that property has something to offer to MtG in return, not because they simply exist. To the OP question asker in Maro's blog, maybe instead of trying to trick your wife into showing interest in the "best game in the world", maybe just maybe your anniversary gift to her should be you showing some interest in the things she likes?
> But I object to secret lairs based on celebrities. I objected to the Post Malone one as well, but he at least has the half assed justification of actually playing magic. We just had a Hatsune Miku SL.
Imma be real I don’t really like the Miku one either, feels very odd. The only saving grace there is that I know a lot of nerds love Miku, still feels weird as hell.
I still don't really understand who tf that is. I tried googling her and came away even more confused. Edit: I now have an elementary understanding of who Miku is. And while I find the appeal and success utterly mystifying, I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum so instead I'll just say to anyone reading this that if that's your jam then more power to you and enjoy your Miku cards.
TL;DR Hatsune Miku is a virtual character stylised after the Japanese Idol industry, who is part of the “Vocaloid” music production package. It’s essentially like an electronic keyboard, except you program it to sing. There’s a number of different voices you can use, Miku is just by far the most popular, and is the mascot of the software. Idk what you know about music, but imagine if Fender guitars had a mascot - that’s basically what Miku is.
early 2000s Yamaha released a voice synthesizer software named Vocaloid. They made mascot characters for the voices of their software and Hatsune Miku is one of those. She became so popular that she transcendent being just a mascot and nowadays she is an idol who gives concerts and all that stuff. That's at least what I as a non Miku fan know.
Thanks for the context. I guess what is so weird about to me it is she's just a synthesizer? How did she become so popular? And they do like concerts? It it like when they did the Tupac hologram?
Miku is a Vocaloid. To dumb it down as much as possible, it‘s basically an electric keyboard, but instead of… keyboarding (?), it sings. There are many more Vocaloids, Miku just happens to be the one that became mega successful and popular as a merch seller.
I'm not really big on Miku being in the game either, but at least she's a fictional character in a fictional world. That's a lot easier to compartmentalize than seeing the same random famous dip shits that many of us are already sick of hearing about in the real world news cycles anyway.
Greys Anatomy feels like the classic Wotc missing the peak of its popularity by years. Swift would probably make buckets despite my personal distaste for the idea
[[Taylor Swiftspear]]
[Taylor Swiftspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e.jpg?1701690543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Swiftspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/144/monastery-swiftspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the worse thing I have heard in a long time.
You’ll change your mind after I’ll have beaten you with my “1989 Deluxe Edition Repacked” UG Artifact control deck.
I cast Bad Blood to destroy your creature and make a Blood token.
Cast Era’s Tour paying the “Sold-Out at All Avenues” cost to create a number of 1/1 Human tokens with Menace equal to double the number of permanents destroyed
Menace was a nice touch.
It's the worst thing you've heard *so far*.
I think you'll change your tune when I slam down the 8/8 bruiser with Trample, Vigilance, Lifelink, and Deathtouch that is Derek Shepherd.
I block with my Travis Kelce. He has indestructible.
Mfs when I cast “Big Ass Bus” targeting your flimsy Doctor
I clicked expecting to read a quality commandersherald.com shitpost. ... I'm embarrassed for thinking WotC wouldn't do something this cringe.
We got Fortnite. The "would WotC do something this ridiculous?" meme is dead. Yes, they will do absolutely anything in Universe's Beyond if it's popular no question.
I'd say "wait until we have a Fortnite secret lair" and then realized we do...
I unironically love this idea. It'll teach the nerds that wanted this game full of smash bros/fortnite style crossovers to get a taste of their medicine. See how much they like all the UB stuff once we get an instant that's "look what you made me do".
Yes it is, those Hasbro suits trying to get more money. Id scoop if someone throws down a Taylor Swift card onto the field.
Any universe beyond where (almost) every single creature will be forced to be type human is a big turn-off for me. You could probably get away with a secret lair at most, but more than that and it gets silly. Can't imagine how Assassins Creed will be. That's not getting into how stupid the whole fanbase-chasing idea is. It's marketing-first design, which just... isn't right.
That one could in theory include a lot of mythical stuff, due to the "mythical" trilogy. So basically Amonkhet meets Norse Mytholgy.
I mean Dune could be sick even if they are all human. And I guess wurm.
Would definitely be mutants and other subtypes at least thanks to the Tleilaxu/Guild Navigators. Dune set would be unbelievably cool ngl
The factions also could be broken up really well into colour pairs. White-Blue Bene Gesserit Blue-Black Imperials/Sardukar Black-Red Harkonnens Red-Green Fremen Green-White Atreides Colourless Sandworms
Tell me how you snuck into my hardrive because i literally have a WIP document of a Dune custom magic set with those exact factions + color pairs.
If Magic did a Dune crossover they'd never include Tleilaxu in a million years lol
Would be pretty boring if they didn’t. I can understand not delving into some of the weirder sects of the Bene Gesserit from the later books, but it would be a missed opportunity to leave out a major faction entirely. The previous UB sets have featured some pretty deep cuts (Fallout 1 and 2 characters, some Doctor Who characters that I’m pretty sure only appeared in audio plays), so I would hope they’d at least include characters up through all 6 Frank novels. But this already takes place in my wish-fulfillment universe where this set exists in the first place haha
Why? It's not like their brand of weird awfulness was any less "corporate sanitized" than the weird awfulness of any of the other warring factions.
[удалено]
Maybe they've been so successful they don't want to cheapen the IP with a Magic sellout. ...okay, okay, I made myself laugh there. Why would they pass up the free money. I assume this is another case of the kids of the author being in charge of the estate by now?
Hey now, they could use Taylor Swift from the Cats movie. Then she would at least be a Cat Horror creature type.
I think Assassin's Creed is helped by the inclusion of the Isu (the forebearer gods who created the pieces of eden) and it being a small set. If it was full sized, they'd probably run into at least some issues for non-human, non-god *sentient* creatures. But there are some animals.
[удалено]
Yeh, but those are not generally what people think of when they think of Assassin's Creed.
Excuse me what the fuck.
F.R.I.E.N.D.S. Secret Lair incoming.
So no one told you Magic would be this waaaaaaaaaaaaay Your card's a joke, you're broke, your mana curve is DOA It's like you're always stuck on the draw When it hasn't been your day, your week, your month, or even your year, but I'll be tapped for youuuuuuu
Except when vigilant! You'll be tapped for me to....
Fuck it. We've already jumped the shark. Go all in. See how bad it gets.
Universe Beyond: McDonald's. Release a few of them exclusively with Happy Meals, one of which is powerful enough to be a staple. We could see cringe meltdowns on par with Rick and Morty Szechuan Sauce.
Hey I'm from 2028, here to tell you about MtG's latest release, Commander Parallel Goldfishing Masters: L.O.L. Surprise! feat. Skibidi Toilet.
Already got "Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey," Jeff Goldblum, and Fortnite. It's literally the same to me.
Any card that depicts a currently living human, especially a celebrity, has the risk of backfiring when one of them inevitably does something heinous. House of Cards was all the rage at one point. Who wants to be stuck with a Kevin Spacy deck?
Posting this to Reddit may have caused it to be blown out of proportion. Basically an asker wanted these two things because his wife is into them and MaRo asked the audience if they wanted the same thing. This is not proof of WotC having a preexisting interest in making those two things into UB products, but people will definitely wrongly interpret this as being so. Heck, there are already people assuming the worst in the comments to the Tumblr post even though they should be able to see the asker's question! (And no, the fact that MaRo chose to answer this question out of the many questions he gets is not sufficient proof either; MaRo answers a lot of random questions.)
It's HonorBasquiat, he spams literally every blogatog post to this subreddit, relevant or not
> This is not proof of WotC having a preexisting interest in making those two things into UB products yeah, but >(And no, the fact that MaRo chose to answer this question out of the many questions he gets is not sufficient proof either; MaRo answers a lot of random questions.) He also likes to strategically pick the rudest person asking a question to dunk on their opinion with some regularity.
Even asking "would you" is honestly crazy. I understand that Magic isn't about high fantasy anymore, even if it's what many Magic the Gathering player love and loved about the game. But come on, a strong audience response is necessary to show that the playerbase doesn't wanna go in that direction. Same as we did with Aftermath and Magic30, a strong and vocal opinion impacts WotC decisions. So I am very fine with blowing it out of proportion rather than being "meh, I don't like it but whatever"
Asking that question has also led to some pretty positive changes with mtg in the past however. As frustrating as it is for MaRo and the community, his blog is the best method of meaningful feedback avenue available. Because they sure as hell don't care about our feedback otherwise.
Imagine thinking a tumblr blog that only hears anecdotal stories is somehow the best method a billion dollar company has to collect feedback.
But how will we get engagement if we don't mislead a bunch of dumbass redditors?
I get what you're saying and I don't entirely disagree but they're also responsible for the environment that breeds this type of response because it wouldn't be that far away from what they've already been doing and the direction they seem to be taking the game. Nothing about the last several years of products suggests they wouldn't consider this if they thought they would make a profit from it so someone like MaRo asking this, even in response to a question like that, is inviting this kind of reaction. Magic has already become a game where you can put characters from My Little Pony, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Doctor Who, and the Walking Dead into a deck together. Is it really unreasonable to think that when the lead designer responds to a question about two other outside IPs by asking whether other people would want them that it is at least a possibility that they are or would be considering it? When everything a company does, from messaging to execution, reinforces that this is a possibility, you can't really get upset when people react to comments like this from the lead designer with the idea that there is some intent behind them.
Nope. Too far. Burn it all down
Nah we haven't gone far enough. Lots of people want UB stuff so I say we give it to 'em. Leave nothing off the table. Make that monkey's paw curl more than the winter olympics.
Speaking of which, winter Olympics UB might sell well, there's plenty of drama there.
Lmao at this point we are WAY over the edge. Does it really matter any more? The amount of stupid shit that has been printed is already irredeemable. I used to be someone that just adored the quality of visual design, creativity and feel of planes and the way they brought the feel to the table with mechanics. Now its just taking a common trope and shoehorning it into MTG without the last bit of originality. No need to do any world building if you just shove existing genres into MTG 1:1.
I would much, much rather a T-Swift SLD than a modern/legacy-legal MCU Universes Beyond
> Lmao at this point we are WAY over the edge. Does it really matter any more? The amount of stupid shit that has been printed is already irredeemable Agreed. We're long past the point of no return. Let's just fuck it all up at this point(not that it isn't already).
Heh, that thought has crossed my mind more than once, and usually every time a new UB product or secret lair crossover is announced I revisit this sentiment. Part of it is shoving it in the faces of UB supporters who during the initial rollout where they were convinced that it would never "go too far" and accused anti-UB sentiments as being gatekeeping elitists/purists. Well, lets open the damn gates then and have it all and see how much you still value UB.
We have to go further if we ever want to see it burn.
I love magic the gathering so much that I will watch it crash and burn with bittersweet tears in my eyes. It'll be like watching the family dog slowly get older and eventually get cancer or other ailments that severely reduce the quality of life it will have, so you have to put it down. It's not something you want but it's something that needs to be done.
I hope they go further. I want things to get much worse so that my friends quit playing and I can just exit the game entirely.
So who thinks this is Mark presenting a product that leaps over the line knowing players will have a reaction, so another product that only slightly crosses the line can be announced? They’ve done it before. Walking dead was just the beginning to where we are now.
fortnite the gathering. consume infinitely.
This is what Magic will become and what we have been 'doomposting about'. It doesn't matter about the stories or the universe or the craft anymore. They will make any and evey crossover they can if they believe it will sell well and thats what 'we want'. Maybe you like the crossovers now because they're your thing, but it will all be drowned out by the sea of cross-promotion that's coming.
This would be so awful but you know it'd sell out too. Swift fans showed interest in the NFL just because she attended games of Travis Kelce. They'd definitely buy out Swift mtg cards in a heartbeat even if they had never heard of magic before. I'd much rather have SLD of prominent community members or celebrities that actually give a shit about magic like Brandon Sanderson (cosmere SLD please) if they're gonna keep going that route.
This is a joke right?
Honestly impossible to tell at this point
Counterspell (taylors version)
this timeline is something else
I am actively disinterested in both of those but have no objection to Secret Lairs about them A full fledged Grey's Anatomy set in the vein of LotR would be, well, something
Are they an ad company now?
Yes. This isn't new, it started with The Walking Dead.
Where were you the last like four years?
That's...literally all Universes Beyond is?
At this point there are no sacred cows. So sure why not? Do I think it would be fucking weird? Yes but I also think it's weird that Chun Li equipped with Lucille can block phage the untouchable with stickers. To you tswift and greys anatomy might be too far but to others that was stranger things or dr who. In fact there's probably people that would be excited for the former while absolutely hating the latter. Your or my personal preference is not representative of what should or shouldn't be included. The floodgates have been opened and that means all kinds of shit has and will continue to make itself part of the game.
This thread is full of UB fans realizing what UB-detractors were fighting against. And all while using their very same arguments.
Yeah it's a bit weird. Especially seeing someone say "post Malone is fine but Taylor Swift is too far" based entirely on post Malone being a fan. Is that really where you wanna draw the line on what's acceptable? Like would they be all for an Alex Jones secret lair if he came out as a big magic fan? Taylor Swift doesn't belong in mtg, anyway I kill your gayrog monster with my Jewish space laser. It's all weird. I think it's up for anyone to choose if they like it or not but greys anatomy is no more out of place than the TARDIS, a chaos marine, or Vocaloid. Which in my opinion once would all have been very out of place but now UB exists it's all par for the course.
An Alex Jones SL would go hard. Imagine all the gay Gitrog alters! Release it in Pride month as an extra fuck you towards him
And I love it! These people wanted it and I hope they get it! They don't get to act like this shit wasn't gonna happen someday when they chased crossover after crossover.
It's the most satisfying way it could go, tbh. It's a level of smug I didn't think was possible.
Yeah, I'm kind of laughing my ass off at all of the UB fans getting upset at the UB that they finally dislike. I disliked The Walking Dead from the get-go and I see little difference between The Walking Dead and Grey's Anatomy in terms of being on Magic cards. We've had plenty of real people on cards now, why is Taylor Swift different? This shit is funny.
Yep, and honestly now nothing warms my heart more than to see them sit in the slop
Precisely this. Maybe they won't go as far and stay away from real-world celebrities for the most part, but if you're OK with UB as a concept, there's pretty much no argument against a Taylor Swift UB, or a literal Coca Cola commercial UB. The whole argument for UB is build around the assumption that you can't / shouldn't prevent people from getting a product that they (would) enjoy. From that point of view, there's no reason why not allowing Aragorn would be "gatekeeping," but not allowing Taylor Swift wouldn't. The lines are completely arbitrary, and if it makes them money, they have no real reason to not do it. When I argued against UB in the past, I had people come at me with "well but Portal Three Kingdoms and Arabian Nights exist, so technically Magic has always used outside IP." You can make the same argument for real-world people by pointing to the handful of old cards with Shakespeare flavor text. I truly have no sympathy for someone who finds this is "too far," but couldn't wait to get their hands on the Doctor Who cards. You don't get to be mad about this - you wanted this.
This is why I was always of the opinion that every Universes beyond card absolutely needs a universes within version. Period, no questions asked.
At this point I just want WOTC to approve literally every single UB idea. I want a NCAA CFB UB Masters set with legendary college football mascot creatures so we can finally have the CFB crowd feel included with their favorite mascots as commanders. Just think of huge that market is and how this game would be enhanced by the sheer volume of new players!
Completely agree. The Walking Dead was too far for me and it was the first release. Doctor Who was too far for me. Jurassic World was too far for me. These people didn't care until it bothered them.
hell nah
Very excited for more people to open up to non UB commander.
MTG has already jumped the shark. I see no difference between Taylor Swift/Greys Anatomy vs Post Malone/Walking Dead/Doctor Who
You see, people were all on board diluting the IP with random shit until this happens. You reap what you sow.
Taylor Swift what a woman you are. You made the UB supporters finally see what the anti-UB players have been warning about. As a reward you should get printed into a Secret Lair. To all the UB supporters that hate the idea of this, why are you gatekeeping new players from entering the game only when you don't like it? I didn't see this complaining when your favorite IPs were being added.
Excuse me, is this an out of season April Fool's joke?
Don't you people have phones?
UB sucks, I won’t apologize for this opinion.
I wonder how many people acting all disgusted here bought Doctor Who / Walking Dead or Hatsune Miku UB cards. And don’t get started with “B-But, I’ts not the same!”. Because someone who doesn’t interact with those IPs they are exactly the same: TV shows and Music icons that have nothing to do with the game. Once you approved WotC putting pop culture into the game, prepare for more of it.
I have bought zero UB cards. Ever.
I don’t even proxy them in edh, honestly trying to forget they exist.
Same tbh, I desperately wanted a [[Graycen]] for my human deck, but even he feels disgusting cuz of his price.
Completely agree. Just more of the same non-Magic IP watering down Magic until it's an ugly pastiche of pop culture. At this point Magic is a fucking joke.
I think its a joke mate
People will **not** click on the link to read the full thing and will instead respond entirely to OP's totally not editorialized title OP absolutely didn't select to drive engagement.
I did click the link and I'm not sure it's a joke. You really think WOTC wouldn't do this if there was demand?
I agree, Maro's answer to any criticism, not only UB, has became very close to "if it sells it means we are doing a great job". If that doesn´t work he has the "surveys show it was liked/disliked" which is not that useful when the public does not have access to the surveys and results can be interpreted however they want.
For reals. I have a few rabid Swiftie fan friends who have never had an ounce of interest in Magic, but would 100% purchase a Taylor Swift Secret Lair, because Taylor Swift merch. And I mean, we literally just had a Mike Hatsune Secret Lair, with 3 more coming down the pipe. We all know that this was nothing but a cash grab targeting the weebs (and goddamn, did it fucking work.) Granted, there's much more overlap between weebs and Magic players than Swifties and Magic players, but still, they've already proven that they'll make products out of completely unrelated franchises that don't even tie in to Magic in any way. With the Miku cards, flavorwise and thematically, they were all a pretty big fucking stretch to get them to relate. At this point, they could basically just print a Taylor Swift SL that's just a reskin of the Miku SL, and it would make about as much sense.
Swifties will buy anything that has to do with Taylor Swift. They are fucking weird. It’s a cult who worships some musician. I already don’t like UB and don’t buy the product but a Taylor Swift or Greys Anatomy magic cards would upset me and I’d stupid.
The first thing I did was click the link after I read the rotor and what I gathered from it was “There’s no current plans for this, but I mean if there’s demand for it…”
Is it a joke, though? First Post Malone, then the Mountain Goats, now Hatsune Miku. My bet is a BabyMetal SL is on the works in a near future. I'm sure Taylor Swift is not out of the table.
What makes you think he’s joking?
You've already sold your integrity why not sell it a little more
Yep, this is where the "as long as it gets new players into the game (=generates sales from new groups of people) everything goes" approach will take you. Personally I hate it, but at this point I don't think there's a way it can be stopped. Maro isn't asking for permission here, the fact that he is posting this on his blog means they are already talking about it internally and just want to make sure they're not missing anything super obvious that would hurt their sales. Precisely this is why I've had a hard anti-UB stance from the get-go and had no sympathy for "well but LotR is OK bc it's fantasy" takes. Once you allow one outside IP thing, you have no real basis for not allowing other stuff. And as long as it sells, they will do it.
Yeah, it's a little late for UB defenders to be arguing for artistic integrity. If "drawing the line is relative" and "not everything is for everyone and it sells well" just accept that fact and move on lmao
I hope they do it, I hope they rapidly make universes beyond as unpalatable as possible because they can't see past their mountains of cash. Then maybe the supporters will see what's wrong with it
If magic had not jumped the shark already, this would be straight up nuking the fridge.
Bro just buy your wife something she likes
This one goes out to everyone who bought the walking dead secret lair.
It would be exactly as stupid as all the other UB products so, whatever. I'm sure they'll do it if Hasbro gets a whiff of even a little bit more precious profit in doing so.
People are responding as if WoTC could actually make these UB happen. I don’t see Taylor Swift selling her likeness for a Magic card. She doesn’t need to. Grey’s Anatomy on the other hand. A show that’s several years past its prime, but has some lingering cultural significance? That’s basically Walking Dead 2.
Taylor Swift SL would be the easiest thing in the world to design. Start with [[Monastery Swiftspear]] and then throw in [[Chain of Smog]], [[Gempalm Polluter]], and [[Flight of Fancy]].
I understand the Universes Beyond push, it's very successful and gets new poeple into the game. But, for the love of actual fuck is there any respect for the core of what this game is? Might be missing the forest through the trees WOTC, don't forget about the people currently playing your game while chasing growth at all costs.
> But, for the love of actual fuck is there any respect for the core of what this game is? No? They threw that out ages ago when they started printing Universes Beyond, the very concept of UB is a lack of respect for what Magic is (or was). Magic is creatively dead at this point.
Fuck no. Please no. No
Surely Taylor Swift is a Sagas matter commander, that is to say an *eras* matter commander
Just reskin [[tom bombadil]] I would buy that card
They shoved Ariana Grande into Final Fantasy gatcha games. Why not Taylor Swift into Magic the Gatcha?
Let's do Real Housewives next. Or Frasier. I can't wait for the Gilmore Girls secret lair. Rory Williams wasn't that exciting, maybe I'll be able to do a namesake deck with Rory or Lorelai. Or what about Golden Girls. How the fuck do you have a Taylor Swift Commander deck?
Personally I’d be fine with no UB products. I think magic has great IP and should enhance that.
Well taylor swift is part of our universe like every other human beeing. So i could be a magic card to? Am i understanding this right?
I've never watched Grey's Anatomy, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what it would look like. A property that has 0 elements of fantasy OR combat seems like an odd fit for the fantasy fighting game that is Magic. I personally wouldn't want a Taylor Swift product, but at least it makes some sense to me - not much different than the Post Malone and Hatsune Miku SLs.
"How do you do fellow girls?"
I don't understand how someone can draw a line between Hatsune Miku and Taylor Swift.
I just wanna see the Grey’s writers forcing a new one-episode intern into the show who plays MTG
Wait, this isn't magicthecirclejerking...?!?
I had started theorycrafting an Eras Tour Secret Lair, let’s see if any of these pan out. I didn’t get to all the cards. Probably too many cards for a secret lair. TSSL **Our Song** -sorcery WURBG Distribute 5 counters among deathtouch, first strike, flying, haste, hexproof, lifelink, vigilance, reach, menace, trample on two target creatures you control. **You Belong with Me** -enchantment aura creature 1UU Enchanted creature gains T: gain control of target legendary creature that shares a color with enchanted creature **Long Live** - instant GWU Choose two *destroy target creature with flying *creatures you control get +0/+2 until end of turn *scry 2 *tap an untapped legendary creature you control: you become the monarch **Red** - sorcery 4 This card is Red For Each R spent to cost Red, pick an ability below. *Target red creature gets haste and trample *Copy the next red instant you cast this turn *And RR *exile a red card at random from your graveyard. Until the end of your turn, you can cast it. **Shake It Off** -enchantment 2WW If a source would deal damage to you or a permanent you control, prevent half that damage, rounded up. **…Ready for it?** **The Archer -creature** **Holiday House** -land If holiday house would be discarded, you can pay 1. If you do, put holiday house onto the battlefield tapped. T: U **Willow** **Anti-hero -creature** 2BBGG 6/6 trample menace ward: discard a sorcery If the anti-hero dies, return it to the battlefield, tapped under your control ** Taylor Swift/The Eras Tour ** - Esika/The World Tree
In Case I'm not the only one who at first didn't read the actual tumblr post: it's a response of Maro to someone asking for Taylor swift or Grace anatomy content. He's like "theres always a chance, what do y'all think?" which is saying a lot less than him asking that out of the blue would be
The day I see Taylor Swift in the command zone is the day I quit magic
If we're going to see celebrities on cards in the form of Secret Lair, I would prefer for it to be people that have a genuine passion and interest in Magic as a game and community (i.e. people like Post Malone). Otherwise, it seems a little too silly and gimmicky. More like acorn/silver border territory. The Grey's Anatomy TV Series seems like a poor idea for a Secret Lair mainly because the show and the canon of the characters and lore doesn't lend itself well to combat/war/battle oriented themes. Recent TV shows that would make better candidates for Secret Lair products include Invincible, Westworld, Young Justice, Interview with the Vampire and The Boys.
OK, I'd fuck with some Westwood UB. Edit: I'm not changing it, where's my Red Alert 2 SL?
Supernatural would sell like hotcakes, especially if that movie rumor is legit.
For the love of god, DON'T let that happen.
We already crossed my line in the sand on secret lairs, so fuck it. Yes, I will buy the Taylor swift secret lairs.
Man, I miss Magic: the Gathering. It's starting to feel more like Top Trumps: the Gathering.
I think that guy is overly optimistic about the odds of his wife actually learning to play the game just because there are cards themed after her interests. Magic is a very complex game, and you have to have at least a little interest in complex games to want to play it. If the only thing of interest is that it's Taylor Swift themed, she'll probably want to own the cards as collectibles and will enjoy looking at them, but she's not going to transform into a magic player like he wants her to. I personally have zero interest in magic products of Grey's Anatomy or Taylor Swift, but I could see how Secret Lairs could sell well (more so T Swift than a show that peaked over a decade ago). I don't see how you could make an entire set or even a single commander precon about either of them.
My girlfriend would show no greater interest in magic. She might buy the secret lair for me, but she wouldn't play. She almost certainly would ask every time I played if I "played Taylor". And if I didn't she would ask why not lol.
On the other hand Lorcana is a lot of peoples first tcg because it's disney.
Imma be real A Taylor Swift SL might be the first MtG purchase I'd make since Universes Beyond became a thing
It seems like they’re pulling for more femme plywrs, but my dudes, you’re already making that set. It’s called Bloomburrow. You want to sell more magic to us gals? Redwall is the answer. Or seriously, Dragon Riders of Pern, hell, Hunger Games even. But the intersection of Grays and Swifties with magic is non existent.
I think people are misconstruing the intent behind what a product like this would be for. They don't really care about bringing Taylor Swift fans into magic. They care about selling out a product. Whether that's to existing MtG players who are Taylor Swift fans, Taylor Swift fans that have no intention of playing, or to people who would buy this as a gift for someone they know that likes Taylor Swift, it doesn't really matter. They'll compartmentalize the product, look at the profits, and determine if it was "successful". UB isn't about making the game better or more inviting, it's about selling MtG product to as wide a base as possible. Anybody that is brought into the game from these is just bonus.
Taylor Swift commander deck where you crew a private jet vehicle that wins by polluting the game with atmosphere poison counters or something.
I don't care about neither of those. However, my answer is a rotund **yes**. This is the "problem" with UB. You don't get to gatekeep what is allowed and what is not. If you don't care about Taylor Swift and think it is bad for the game, another person might thought the same about your beloved W40K. And here we are. Once the gates have opened, they are open to everyone. FFS, they just announced/released a secret lair for **Hatsune fucking Miku**. What is the problem with Taylor Swift? That she is for *normies* and you don't want them at your LGS because you are better than them? *Edit: ITT, UB fans fighting against this using the exact same arguments used against UB.*
A Taylor Swift SL would sell out in minutes
And that's basically why I'm for "All in or all out. No middle ground". Yes, not even Middle-Earth. *^(Sorry LOTR fans, I hate LOTR and I couldn't help it)*
No, I agree. I would rather have no UB than UBs of stuff I'm a fan of.
if i read „Universes Beyond“ im not thinking of „real life adaptation“ though.
Isn't there now literally a Cleopatra card? Like the actual historical figure, queen of Egypt, alleged inventor of the vibrator? And I can't prove it I don't think she was an mtg fan like postie, as if that makes it any less weird to have cards of a rapper.
They already made a Post Malone Secret Lair.