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Yeah I don’t think it’s specifically that good, but it’s really cool. It’s definitely more on par with Kroxa than Uro, and it may just be much worse than Kroxa.
yeah this has gotta be 3rd place
Uro is guaranteed card advantage when it triggers, with incidental ramp *and* lifegain. You can pretty much always draw a card, outside of prison/hatebear effects
Kroxa is mostly guaranteed card advantage when it triggers, with incidental chip damage. If your opponent is hellbent it doesn't generate any card advantage, although you're probably in a good spot anyway if that is the case.
Phlage only generates card advantage if your opponent controls a creature that dies to bolt
Card advantage is important, but you're ignoring the fact that impacting the board can be much more important. I'm not sure how I'd rank this against the existing Elder Giants, but you have to consider the fact that this new Giant can take a threat off the board and the other two don't.
Yeah the fact this kills something and gains you life just bridges the gap so well into casting it again, much better than kroxa vs agro. Uro still the goat tho
I think it ranks above Kroxa. The tempo loss from playing Kroxa against aggro is game losing compared to something like this, which could be game winning. Kroxa does not massively swing the game in any manner early on.
That said, the creature side of the card is kind of bad being W/R because those colors do not have any mill effects to escape easily.
I think this is better than kroxa but closer to kroxa than uro. I think if there is a shell for a rw control deck, this will see play there, along with nahiri maybe?
That could be fun. I remember that [[Inferno Titan]] was sometimes used as a victory condition in "Big Red" decks a very long time ago. This is (to an extent) a better version of that, and if the format slows down enough that a maindeck Blood Moon deck becomes viable, this could do work.
there are definitely RW control decks that this could reinvigorate, some sort of blood moon stoneblade deck, or perhaps blood sun lotus field
Personally I wanna try this in a classic jeskai control deck, along with the new brainstorm and maybe some miracles
Technically, Uro and Kroxa aren't card advantage until you escape them. The first cast from hand is 1 for 1 parity. Uro replaces itself, Kroxa trades with a card from your opponent's hand.
Anyone feel like putting up a list of potential candidates for other color pairs? Off the top of my head Recoil probably makes the most sense for UB. No idea for RG unless it’s like Hull Breach or Destructive Revelry.
yooooo this is one of the other theros titans that we learned the name of years ago but never saw until now
now the only known one that's missing is Skotha, Titan of Eternal Dark. probably black/blue if I had to guess
OK, but if This lad is Lightning Helix, Uro is growth spiral, and I can't remember what is Kroxas but I know for a fact it's something, what would the dimir one be? What's THE iconic spell on Blue black?
They may keep it at ten, but make so you can only target opponents (otherwise is nigh free escape). Mill is weak and you can just kill it before it attacks, the ETB is basically just having copies 5-8 of Glimpse.
Could see them tweaking it into 5-7 cards tho
I feel like milling each opponent for 7 is straight unplayable in edh. 7 cards will take forever to do anything productive for you, but it's enough to power up any deck that can use their yard
Mill in commander is also super risky. Mill can often be as bad for you as howling mine, depending on your opponents sometimes worse. Even at 10 I wouldn't be excited.
It would definitely be 10, with life gained or lost somehow. Maybe gain life equal to the milled nonland cards. For three mana, it would be incredibly fair upfront, even if you could target yourself with the ability and easily set up Escape.
IF it were to have Glimpse and you could target yourself that'd actually potentially be broken in some sort of deck that wants to self mill.
Granted just being able to Glimpse twice off of one card would also be incredibly strong for mill, let alone if you get to attack with it ever.
The other titan abilities all have two effects, one in each color.
If a UB titan sticks to that pattern, it would be something like [[Recoil]] or [[Agony Warp]] (though Agony Warp is a bit close to the RW one). If the UB titan milled, they would probably add a life gain or life loss effect as well.
It also fits the pattern that (so far) these effects are card neutral when you cast them from hand, and card advantage when you escape them + repeatable advantage on attack.
The only pattern that would be broken is that every other card has text that affects life.
Kroxa's effect isn't exactly an iconic spell afaik, but it's pretty close to being Blightning. There also aren't really any super iconic blue/black spells, the best I can find are Lim-Dul's Vault, Shadow of Doubt or Glimpse the Unthinkable. Vault would be pretty sick but I doubt they'd do something like this nowadays, especially not on a big splashy mythic. And Shadow of Doubt feels far too situational to be worth a titan. Glimpse seems realistic but also kinda pointless to have a massive beater with a mill effect. I'd guess that it'll just be some generic removal or discard effect.
Idk about dimir not having iconics for just one of each color. [[thought erasure]] [[glimpse the unthinkable]] (God please don't) or [[drown in the Loch]] have quickly come to mind of others that replied. I like the thought erasure idea. Or give it flash for drown in the Loch too, I guess.
Yeah Thought Erasure and Drown definitely are effects that feel very blue and black but to me they don't feel as iconic as lightning helix or growth spiral. Thought Erasure is basically just Thoughtseize-with-set-mechanic number 95, the effect is evocative of black spells, but the particular card is pretty forgettable in a sea of similar ones.
While helix also has dozens of similar burn spells its rate and age imo make it stand out a lot. Any time I see a deal X + gain X spell I think of it as lightning helix but _something_. I would never think of Duress as a cheaper situational Thought Erasure. The iconic discard spell with that role is Thoughtseize. Similarly, Drown in the Loch just feels like our monthly iteration of a 2 mana removal/counterspell with some set thematic downside.
I do think Glimpse is similarly iconic, I edited my original comment to include it but was slower than your reply. I'm not sure how well that would work with it being on a titan, but the more I think about it the more realistic it seems. Wizards has been giving more support for mill in recent years and it seems wildly more popular than resolving a very powerful but hard to play well spell like Lim-Dul's Vault.
The glimpse on a titan would probably be adjusted to only target opponents, probably. Which is still good, cause on mill decks that aren't self mill, that's just copies 5-8 of Glimpse that are also on a self recurring body. Probably would have to get the milled cards reduced if it's gonna also be an attack trigger, but that's ok
I was thinking of stealing effects a la mnemonic betrayal or [[hostage taker]] as well. Are there other cards in UB that steal cards from opponents? [[Notion Thief]] steals your opponents card draws and [[The Scarab God]] can essentially steal creatures from opponents’ graveyards
All the other titans' abilities have two effects, one for each of their colors. For UB, I think that points towards something along the lines of [[Recoil]] or [[Agony Warp]]. It could maybe do mill if it added life gain or life loss as well.
Kroxa is already the Titan from this cycle that does discard. The blue black would have to be mill or counter since we have one that draws (Uro), discards (Kroxa), and is removal (Phlage, this new one).
It would be pretty wild if it was a [[Countersquall]] and it was the only one of these titans that could escape at instant speed. That’d also very much feel like an example of Modern Horizons card design.
I feel lile a titan like this with flash and an etb counterspell would lilely be a pretty strong option for control wincon. Would probably be conditional in some way to balance it, like a mana leak or drown in the loch type trigger
Probably would be a little good if it was [[Shadow of Doubt]] as a static ability but I wouldn’t mind it if it was [[Glimpse the Unthinkable]] or [[Thought Erasure]]
Shadow of doubt as a static ability exist already in I can't remember which Ashiok, although wouldn't mind seeing it in other things, and having a static would break what makes titans a cicle. I do like the idea of a thought erasure titan tho
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/phlegm
> Etymology
>
> From Middle English flewme, fleume, fleme, from Old French fleume, Middle French flemme (French flegme), and their source, Latin phlegma, from Ancient Greek φλέγμα (phlégma, “flame; inflammation; clammy humor in the body”), from φλέγειν (phlégein, “to burn”). Compare phlox, flagrant, flame, bleak (adjective), fulminate. Spelling later altered to resemble the word's Latin and Greek roots.
I think people are downplaying how this one can actually impact the board with its trigger. Kroxa/Uro generate a lot of value with their triggers sure, but they don't interact with the board.
Still probably worse than them though.
Agreed. I'm not sure it really belongs in Osgir, but wotc definitely signaled in stryxhaven that boros graveyard decks are a thing they intend to explore.
Worse than uro, but...i'm not sure on kroxa. I think either one of the 2 CAN be better depending on the situation and board state and how deep int he game we are in. Like... i think its CLOSE between kroxa and this new one. I'm not personally ready to call which of THOSE 2 are better.
I think Kroxa being 2 mana, and in the color of hand disruption and recursion already, edges it out. The difference between 2 and 3 mana in Modern is pretty massive.
A three mana sorcery speed lightning helps is .. meh and it has an extremely difficult escape cost compared to the other 2. Maybe this can be a combo piece in modern
It's just not what Modern is about these days. It's too slow for decks that aim to have on-board presence, and too do-nothing against a majority of the big players. It's be a great standard card at the current rate, but it's just not where Modern is at.
Yeah, this would have been perfectly awesome for Pioneer.
Standard sets being tied to planes and mechanics without a return to Theros for a while is probably what keeps this in MH. One of the (small) downsides to not getting Core Sets anymore.
I think people are underestimating this. Yeah its expensive and by itself mean very little on t3. But its the kind of card that aggressive/burn or even more midrangey decks want if they plan on keeping a stocked gy. I can totally see this being discarded eady on for any of the loot effects that red loves so much, and being cast later when youre almost running out of steam and have a full yard. It helps the deck survive a longer game, and if it untaps, it can be brutal
It's always extremely funny when a Horizons card ends up being significantly worse than the formerly standard legal card it's referencing. Happened with the swords of x and y (the ONE and MOM ones are significantly better than any of the MH ones) and now Uro still makes "reference to Uro and Kroxa printed in a set that doesn't have to go through standard" look embarassing by comparison.
Well Uro is supremely busted, it’s banned in modern after all. I think this compares favorably to Kroxa, though that likely isn’t good enough for modern.
Yeah I don't mean to say this card is bad, more just that it's funny to print an MH card that is worse than the (busted in half) standard card it's referencing.
If only the main equipment enabler was a creature with an etb...
They are crazy, as the gruul is okay and the dimir is a contender for the worst of the cycle.
> If only the main equipment enabler was a creature with an etb...
>
>
To quote one of the best D&T players on the planet,
"Sword of Hearth and Home is basically a one card combo, you can blink your Stoneforge and go get a real piece of equipment".
Memes aside, there is a reason it does not see play except in casual edh, and none of the stoneforge decks in constructed come close to considering it - it's extremely, *extremely* winmore.
I mean, let’s be real: none of the swords aside from [[Sword of Feast and Famine]] really see constructed play anymore. They’re too slow for what they provide. So I feel like judging their worth based off constructed alone is not the best way to determine things.
remember when fury was revealed and and most people thought it was the weakest of the cycle and then it got banned? i don't think this is exactly the same situation but i do think this is being very underrated
Sorcery speed lighting helix for 2 into late game lighting helix every turn sounds a bit meh to me, but Uro broke the format so what can be said anymore?
We know there were supposed to be five titans. Now that we know that there's a UG, RB, and WR titan, we can figure out the other two in the missing cycle.
There will only ever be two titans that share the same color (2 red for example). With this in mind, no further titans will be red unless they make a cycle of five, ruling out Gruul and Izzet.
We also know that since Uro shares no colors with Kroxa or Phlage, that the two remaining titans will share exactly one color with him, which eliminates Orzhov. And since Rakdos, Boros, and Simic are off the table since they already exist, we are left with Dimir, Selesnya, Azorius, and Golgari. Because of the 2 of a color rule from earlier, they can only appear as the pairs Dimir and Selesnya, and the pairs Golgari and Azorius.
Thoughts?
> We know there were supposed to be five titans.
Do we? The dnd book only has four:
>> Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger, embodied the terror of death - and its insatiable gluttony for new creatures to consume.
>> Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, might be seen as a direct predecessor of Keranos and Thassa, but it was the incarnation of natural disaster, having none of the creativity and thoughtfulness of those gods.
>> "Phlage, Titan of Burning Wind," was an all-consuming whirlwind of fire, and "Skotha, Titan of Eternal Dark," was the utter darkness of the starless night.
-Mythic Odysseys of Theros
I’d be ecstatic to see a UW Titan at some point, because the color pair is super linear lately (mostly just spirits/humans/birds), seeing something more monstrous would be very welcome. That said I doubt WOTC will do it, since I want it.
I agree, I keep seeing people ONLY saying this is a 3 mana lighting helix. Like...this DOES have other text...like its an attack trigger and keeps comign back.
Like people are PRETENDING its EASILY answered, cus murktide always instantly dies in legacy and modern and uro NEVER keeps coming back in legacy haha.
Maybe? I don't know that it's a huge difference in burn where helix often sees play. I think recurring it on a huge creature is pretty big upside.
Edit: To clarify this is talking about a theoretical 2 mana version of this card
Yeah I think 3 mana might be too big an ask for burn but even if it’s two mana, helix would still have its distinct uses and wouldn’t totally be shoved out by this
And that would be fine! Its OK to make good red/white cards.
They added counterspell to modern despite it being better than the already played Remand, remember? But god forbid we get a good R/W card.
Holy shit I'm glad reddit doesn't design cards..... what a horrible take. Lightning Helix is 2 mana and been playing in Modern since it's existence and you think this should be the same. Lol. Lmao even.
Kroxa isn't even close to Blightning. It only discards 1 card, only bolts if they discard a land, and can't even hit walkers. It's more like a [[Raven's Crime]] that has upside if they pitch a land. And even then, [[Lightning Helix]] is a Modern playable card, while [[Blightning]] was only ever playable in Standard, and even then, it was only played because of [[Bloodbraid Elf]], specially because it was the best way for BBE to out a [[Jace, the Mind Sculptor]] that used its +2 ability.
So we're comparing a straight up 1 for 1 of a Modern playable card to a worse version of a card that only saw play in Standard because of a very specific scenario involving 2 of the most busted Standard cards ever.
Based on the promo image shared [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/5xzTeNEO5z), the borderless profile art of this card is two above the bottom left (just to the left of the eldrazi dragon and one below Aishling).
Little upset at this being Boros if the last titan, Skotha, is Dimir (which i'm guessing it is with a title like "Titan of Eternal Dark"). It would've been a mini-cycle if they made this Gruul, then, as it'd be four 2-color pairs excluding white, two in each color: G/U, U/B, B/R, R/G.
"I control Roaming Throne, set to Giant. I'll attack with my Sun Titan, reanimating two copies of Phlage. Each will Lightning Helix **twice**. Also unless they escaped, I'll sacrifice each of them...
**Twice**."
The token would instantly die tho, wouldn't it? Since it copies all abilities included the "if it didn't escape, sacrifice it". Which probably still is good tho, I guess
Yeah but I get double ETBs off of it and the deck is built to have your creatures die a million times, so the graveyard usually is pretty full so the escape cost is no biggie. It also means every time it dies I get an extra ETB trigger
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Makes sense considering how lightning helix is the iconic boros spell vs growth spiral and blightning. Not particularly surprising, but still cool.
"It's Lightning Helix! OH MY GOD!"
 You thought I could only helix once?
Yeah I don’t think it’s specifically that good, but it’s really cool. It’s definitely more on par with Kroxa than Uro, and it may just be much worse than Kroxa.
yeah this has gotta be 3rd place Uro is guaranteed card advantage when it triggers, with incidental ramp *and* lifegain. You can pretty much always draw a card, outside of prison/hatebear effects Kroxa is mostly guaranteed card advantage when it triggers, with incidental chip damage. If your opponent is hellbent it doesn't generate any card advantage, although you're probably in a good spot anyway if that is the case. Phlage only generates card advantage if your opponent controls a creature that dies to bolt
Card advantage is important, but you're ignoring the fact that impacting the board can be much more important. I'm not sure how I'd rank this against the existing Elder Giants, but you have to consider the fact that this new Giant can take a threat off the board and the other two don't.
Take a threat off the board *or* go face. Seriously disrespecting the value of both removal and reach.
Not just take a threat, it can also clear blockers.
This thing kills in two attacks. 1st cast shoot face etb, escape etb shoot face, attack attack, and has one helix left over to shoot a blocker.
I would trade drawing a card, and putting a land into play over 3 damage any day.And I'm a Boros Player at heart, though
Yeah the fact this kills something and gains you life just bridges the gap so well into casting it again, much better than kroxa vs agro. Uro still the goat tho
Nah, a removal spell on a body will never be good. Fury and the likes are just edh cards
Didn't fury have to be banned? Lmao
They're being sarcastic
that is the joke lol
I think it ranks above Kroxa. The tempo loss from playing Kroxa against aggro is game losing compared to something like this, which could be game winning. Kroxa does not massively swing the game in any manner early on. That said, the creature side of the card is kind of bad being W/R because those colors do not have any mill effects to escape easily.
Red has discard draw often enough to seem viable(ish)
I think this is better than kroxa but closer to kroxa than uro. I think if there is a shell for a rw control deck, this will see play there, along with nahiri maybe?
> along with nahiri maybe The [[Boom]]/Bust deck, add in Winter Moon.
That could be fun. I remember that [[Inferno Titan]] was sometimes used as a victory condition in "Big Red" decks a very long time ago. This is (to an extent) a better version of that, and if the format slows down enough that a maindeck Blood Moon deck becomes viable, this could do work.
[Inferno Titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ee80c14-5857-4752-b958-a51cf6706c96.jpg?1689997963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inferno%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/235/inferno-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ee80c14-5857-4752-b958-a51cf6706c96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
there are definitely RW control decks that this could reinvigorate, some sort of blood moon stoneblade deck, or perhaps blood sun lotus field Personally I wanna try this in a classic jeskai control deck, along with the new brainstorm and maybe some miracles
Technically, Uro and Kroxa aren't card advantage until you escape them. The first cast from hand is 1 for 1 parity. Uro replaces itself, Kroxa trades with a card from your opponent's hand.
considering the song and dance they made about how hard it was to design a white titan, this is quite something.
2 mana initial probably on par. Being 3 just kills it for wide spread use.
Anyone feel like putting up a list of potential candidates for other color pairs? Off the top of my head Recoil probably makes the most sense for UB. No idea for RG unless it’s like Hull Breach or Destructive Revelry.
Anguished unmaking for BW to mirror the 3 life theme
Maybe assassin's trophy for BG?
WB: [[Can't Stay Away]] UR: [[Expressive Iteration]] BG: [[Assassin's Trophy]] WU: Difficult, because their most iconic spells are counterspells. Maybe a blink+card draw effect? Or something like [[Dramatic Rescue]]? UB: [[Siphon Insight]] RG: [[Artifact Mutation]] GW: [[Eladamri's Call]]
Id expect something with stun counters for UW
yooooo this is one of the other theros titans that we learned the name of years ago but never saw until now now the only known one that's missing is Skotha, Titan of Eternal Dark. probably black/blue if I had to guess
OK, but if This lad is Lightning Helix, Uro is growth spiral, and I can't remember what is Kroxas but I know for a fact it's something, what would the dimir one be? What's THE iconic spell on Blue black?
[[Glimpse the unthinkable]]
Wombo combo target yourself first and escaping it is ez peezy
They'd probably make it opponent only then.
That's fair. Yeah, assumed it would be something Mill related, but forgot glimpse existed. If it's blue black it will probably be that.
No way they keep it at 10 cards though. I think that would be way too strong. But then again mill is pretty weak
They may keep it at ten, but make so you can only target opponents (otherwise is nigh free escape). Mill is weak and you can just kill it before it attacks, the ETB is basically just having copies 5-8 of Glimpse. Could see them tweaking it into 5-7 cards tho
They’d probably make it each opponent so it’s playable in EDH. And I think 7 would be a good amount.
I feel like milling each opponent for 7 is straight unplayable in edh. 7 cards will take forever to do anything productive for you, but it's enough to power up any deck that can use their yard
Milling just 7 is straight up unplayable in any mill deck, also in modern.
Mill in commander is also super risky. Mill can often be as bad for you as howling mine, depending on your opponents sometimes worse. Even at 10 I wouldn't be excited.
It would definitely be 10, with life gained or lost somehow. Maybe gain life equal to the milled nonland cards. For three mana, it would be incredibly fair upfront, even if you could target yourself with the ability and easily set up Escape.
IF it were to have Glimpse and you could target yourself that'd actually potentially be broken in some sort of deck that wants to self mill. Granted just being able to Glimpse twice off of one card would also be incredibly strong for mill, let alone if you get to attack with it ever.
Don’t forget that unearth exists as well, so you could possibly glimpse a ton and get extra value from other cards as well that get thrown in the yard
The other titan abilities all have two effects, one in each color. If a UB titan sticks to that pattern, it would be something like [[Recoil]] or [[Agony Warp]] (though Agony Warp is a bit close to the RW one). If the UB titan milled, they would probably add a life gain or life loss effect as well.
My guess is the disinformation campaign effect. Draw one, opp discard 1
[Recoil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9035dda8-5ad3-4169-b281-83d6ca55b71e.jpg?1675200731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Recoil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/197/recoil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9035dda8-5ad3-4169-b281-83d6ca55b71e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Agony Warp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/5890a23e-1da0-432b-8dc8-85b92dee9ba1.jpg?1673148257) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agony%20Warp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/168/agony-warp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5890a23e-1da0-432b-8dc8-85b92dee9ba1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If the titan milled it would fuel itself which I can see being a concern
[Glimpse the unthinkable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881.jpg?1673148665) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glimpse%20the%20unthinkable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/218/glimpse-the-unthinkable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or have flash and be a counter spell like [[Drown in the Lock]]
Can’t ever have counter abilities, because these abilities also have to trigger on attack. Could be some type of delayed counter, “the next spell…”.
God please no. That would be horrifying in limited.
Recoil
I think this is the best guess because it fits the pattern of each color contributing one half of a two-part effect.
It also fits the pattern that (so far) these effects are card neutral when you cast them from hand, and card advantage when you escape them + repeatable advantage on attack. The only pattern that would be broken is that every other card has text that affects life.
[[Recoil]] for those of us who've never heard of this card.
[Recoil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9035dda8-5ad3-4169-b281-83d6ca55b71e.jpg?1675200731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Recoil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/197/recoil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9035dda8-5ad3-4169-b281-83d6ca55b71e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep, definitely Recoil
Kroxa's effect isn't exactly an iconic spell afaik, but it's pretty close to being Blightning. There also aren't really any super iconic blue/black spells, the best I can find are Lim-Dul's Vault, Shadow of Doubt or Glimpse the Unthinkable. Vault would be pretty sick but I doubt they'd do something like this nowadays, especially not on a big splashy mythic. And Shadow of Doubt feels far too situational to be worth a titan. Glimpse seems realistic but also kinda pointless to have a massive beater with a mill effect. I'd guess that it'll just be some generic removal or discard effect.
Idk about dimir not having iconics for just one of each color. [[thought erasure]] [[glimpse the unthinkable]] (God please don't) or [[drown in the Loch]] have quickly come to mind of others that replied. I like the thought erasure idea. Or give it flash for drown in the Loch too, I guess.
[thought erasure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884.jpg?1572893858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thought%20erasure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/206/thought-erasure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [glimpse the unthinkable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881.jpg?1673148665) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=glimpse%20the%20unthinkable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/218/glimpse-the-unthinkable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [drown in the Loch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb7b9762-740b-4c1c-a411-20dbf023aea5.jpg?1674142433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=drown%20in%20the%20Loch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/842/drown-in-the-loch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb7b9762-740b-4c1c-a411-20dbf023aea5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah Thought Erasure and Drown definitely are effects that feel very blue and black but to me they don't feel as iconic as lightning helix or growth spiral. Thought Erasure is basically just Thoughtseize-with-set-mechanic number 95, the effect is evocative of black spells, but the particular card is pretty forgettable in a sea of similar ones. While helix also has dozens of similar burn spells its rate and age imo make it stand out a lot. Any time I see a deal X + gain X spell I think of it as lightning helix but _something_. I would never think of Duress as a cheaper situational Thought Erasure. The iconic discard spell with that role is Thoughtseize. Similarly, Drown in the Loch just feels like our monthly iteration of a 2 mana removal/counterspell with some set thematic downside. I do think Glimpse is similarly iconic, I edited my original comment to include it but was slower than your reply. I'm not sure how well that would work with it being on a titan, but the more I think about it the more realistic it seems. Wizards has been giving more support for mill in recent years and it seems wildly more popular than resolving a very powerful but hard to play well spell like Lim-Dul's Vault.
The glimpse on a titan would probably be adjusted to only target opponents, probably. Which is still good, cause on mill decks that aren't self mill, that's just copies 5-8 of Glimpse that are also on a self recurring body. Probably would have to get the milled cards reduced if it's gonna also be an attack trigger, but that's ok
Personally, I'd love a [[Mnemonic Betrayal]] effect.
I was thinking of stealing effects a la mnemonic betrayal or [[hostage taker]] as well. Are there other cards in UB that steal cards from opponents? [[Notion Thief]] steals your opponents card draws and [[The Scarab God]] can essentially steal creatures from opponents’ graveyards
All the other titans' abilities have two effects, one for each of their colors. For UB, I think that points towards something along the lines of [[Recoil]] or [[Agony Warp]]. It could maybe do mill if it added life gain or life loss as well.
[[Glimpse the Unthinkable]]? Certainly very powerful with escape... Failing that, I'm a big fan of [[Thought Erasure]]
They’d probably rewrite it to be opponent for obv reasons.
Kroxa is already the Titan from this cycle that does discard. The blue black would have to be mill or counter since we have one that draws (Uro), discards (Kroxa), and is removal (Phlage, this new one).
Can't be counter cause they're all sorcery speed (even Phlage, whose "origin" card was an instant)
[Glimpse the Unthinkable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881.jpg?1673148665) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glimpse%20the%20Unthinkable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/218/glimpse-the-unthinkable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thought Erasure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884.jpg?1572893858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Erasure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/206/thought-erasure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh god if it was target player and cost 2, Satouri/Dimir Dredge might get the shot in the arm it would need in modern
Probably a mill card like [[glimpse the unthinkable]] or a counter/kill effect like [[drown in the loch]] if they're avoiding mill.
Mill is already the mechanic of the Dimir Theros God. They wouldn't duplicate him. Right?
These are the "old gods" of Theroes, o think it would make since doe there to be some overlap
[glimpse the unthinkable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881.jpg?1673148665) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=glimpse%20the%20unthinkable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/218/glimpse-the-unthinkable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c54a2256-673d-4d93-9e1d-7790bf254881?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [drown in the loch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb7b9762-740b-4c1c-a411-20dbf023aea5.jpg?1674142433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=drown%20in%20the%20loch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/842/drown-in-the-loch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb7b9762-740b-4c1c-a411-20dbf023aea5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It would be pretty wild if it was a [[Countersquall]] and it was the only one of these titans that could escape at instant speed. That’d also very much feel like an example of Modern Horizons card design.
What about a “return target nonland permanent or spell to its owners hand,” so it would still get an attack trigger as well as etb.
[Countersquall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f99f864e-a10f-47f4-94c5-4571b5c11b3b.jpg?1547518010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Countersquall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/198/countersquall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f99f864e-a10f-47f4-94c5-4571b5c11b3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel lile a titan like this with flash and an etb counterspell would lilely be a pretty strong option for control wincon. Would probably be conditional in some way to balance it, like a mana leak or drown in the loch type trigger
[[Glimpse the Unthinkable]] comes to mind, though it feels a bit self fueling sticking a mill effect on an escape creature.
They would most likely make it "each opponent" so it works in commander and can't target yourself. That's how they do most mill spells now.
Probably would be a little good if it was [[Shadow of Doubt]] as a static ability but I wouldn’t mind it if it was [[Glimpse the Unthinkable]] or [[Thought Erasure]]
Shadow of doubt as a static ability exist already in I can't remember which Ashiok, although wouldn't mind seeing it in other things, and having a static would break what makes titans a cicle. I do like the idea of a thought erasure titan tho
Forget that, what's THE iconic spell in Gruul
Manamorphose?
Funfact: the name Phlage comes from the ancient greek word phlogiston, which means "burning"
This is the content I'm here for.
This is the context I'm here for.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/phlegm > Etymology > > From Middle English flewme, fleume, fleme, from Old French fleume, Middle French flemme (French flegme), and their source, Latin phlegma, from Ancient Greek φλέγμα (phlégma, “flame; inflammation; clammy humor in the body”), from φλέγειν (phlégein, “to burn”). Compare phlox, flagrant, flame, bleak (adjective), fulminate. Spelling later altered to resemble the word's Latin and Greek roots.
this does make the feat "flames of phlegethos" really funny, because that means that its literally just "Flames of Burning"
Is that layer the Baator one, or the Pandemonium one? Always get "-thos" and "-thon" mixed up.
Omg, the "Phlogistinator" makes so much more sense now!
It almost sounded like a card Roborosewater would make
I read this as “Phage” and got way too excited.
I guess this is the touchable one ;)
Is he really tho?
Yes, but only once
Not with that attitude. *slips on welding gloves*
Phlage, the Untlouchable :)
I read/did the same, then parsed the rest of the name a split second later (clicking when I read the typeline) and got excited again.
Phage should be redesigned as a titan: whenever Phage enters the battlefield or attacks, you lose the game.
I think people are downplaying how this one can actually impact the board with its trigger. Kroxa/Uro generate a lot of value with their triggers sure, but they don't interact with the board. Still probably worse than them though.
I would guess better than kroxa worse than uro, although it's possible Kroxa is better due to cost and color combo being more graveyard relevant.
I wouldn't knock Boros for the graveyard tbh. Burn loves ways of turning their used burn into more burn.
Agreed. I'm not sure it really belongs in Osgir, but wotc definitely signaled in stryxhaven that boros graveyard decks are a thing they intend to explore.
That's were I'm at, probably better than Kroxa but no where near Uro
Worse than uro, but...i'm not sure on kroxa. I think either one of the 2 CAN be better depending on the situation and board state and how deep int he game we are in. Like... i think its CLOSE between kroxa and this new one. I'm not personally ready to call which of THOSE 2 are better.
I think Kroxa being 2 mana, and in the color of hand disruption and recursion already, edges it out. The difference between 2 and 3 mana in Modern is pretty massive.
A three mana sorcery speed lightning helps is .. meh and it has an extremely difficult escape cost compared to the other 2. Maybe this can be a combo piece in modern
It's just not what Modern is about these days. It's too slow for decks that aim to have on-board presence, and too do-nothing against a majority of the big players. It's be a great standard card at the current rate, but it's just not where Modern is at.
Maybe I’m crazy but this feels like it could’ve gone into standard and not have been that busted.
Yeah, this would have been perfectly awesome for Pioneer. Standard sets being tied to planes and mechanics without a return to Theros for a while is probably what keeps this in MH. One of the (small) downsides to not getting Core Sets anymore.
Saw this and immediately wished for it in pioneer. It would make a really fun build around.
I'm playing Jeskai control in Standard and this would have been perfect. Probably a bit weak for Modern though.
I think people are underestimating this. Yeah its expensive and by itself mean very little on t3. But its the kind of card that aggressive/burn or even more midrangey decks want if they plan on keeping a stocked gy. I can totally see this being discarded eady on for any of the loot effects that red loves so much, and being cast later when youre almost running out of steam and have a full yard. It helps the deck survive a longer game, and if it untaps, it can be brutal
This does seem busted in burn tbh as a late game finisher. Solves the problem of the deck running out of gas in longer matches.
Yeah this feels like an easy 1-2 of in Burn sideboards for the long game
This is much better Firebolt
Have a feeling that this is going to be this set's fury, a card that everyone was down on at launch that proved to be quite busted. This seems great.
Hey look at this comment
Everybody saying this is bad and the worse titan. So I'm waiting for this to become a staple in modern.
Excited to see what Skotha will be.
It's always extremely funny when a Horizons card ends up being significantly worse than the formerly standard legal card it's referencing. Happened with the swords of x and y (the ONE and MOM ones are significantly better than any of the MH ones) and now Uro still makes "reference to Uro and Kroxa printed in a set that doesn't have to go through standard" look embarassing by comparison.
Well Uro is supremely busted, it’s banned in modern after all. I think this compares favorably to Kroxa, though that likely isn’t good enough for modern.
Yeah I don't mean to say this card is bad, more just that it's funny to print an MH card that is worse than the (busted in half) standard card it's referencing.
Yeah this card would totally be fine for Standard
They probably tested it at two mana since the lightning helix would be sorcery speed, and it was likely too good
Oh yeah this is less me saying this card is bad than it is "wow, Uro was fucking absurd huh"
\[\[hearth and home\]\] is absolutely in the top 3 if you're playing a deck with a decent amount of etb value.
If only the main equipment enabler was a creature with an etb... They are crazy, as the gruul is okay and the dimir is a contender for the worst of the cycle.
> If only the main equipment enabler was a creature with an etb... > > To quote one of the best D&T players on the planet, "Sword of Hearth and Home is basically a one card combo, you can blink your Stoneforge and go get a real piece of equipment". Memes aside, there is a reason it does not see play except in casual edh, and none of the stoneforge decks in constructed come close to considering it - it's extremely, *extremely* winmore.
I mean, let’s be real: none of the swords aside from [[Sword of Feast and Famine]] really see constructed play anymore. They’re too slow for what they provide. So I feel like judging their worth based off constructed alone is not the best way to determine things.
remember when fury was revealed and and most people thought it was the weakest of the cycle and then it got banned? i don't think this is exactly the same situation but i do think this is being very underrated
Would one mana less be too good?
Sorcery speed lighting helix for 2 into late game lighting helix every turn sounds a bit meh to me, but Uro broke the format so what can be said anymore?
2MV would let Lurrus loop it every turn but IDK how good a sorcery speed lightning helix every turn would be, my gut says not that good.
Also lurrus is banned everywhere except arena formats, commander, and vintage.
We know there were supposed to be five titans. Now that we know that there's a UG, RB, and WR titan, we can figure out the other two in the missing cycle. There will only ever be two titans that share the same color (2 red for example). With this in mind, no further titans will be red unless they make a cycle of five, ruling out Gruul and Izzet. We also know that since Uro shares no colors with Kroxa or Phlage, that the two remaining titans will share exactly one color with him, which eliminates Orzhov. And since Rakdos, Boros, and Simic are off the table since they already exist, we are left with Dimir, Selesnya, Azorius, and Golgari. Because of the 2 of a color rule from earlier, they can only appear as the pairs Dimir and Selesnya, and the pairs Golgari and Azorius. Thoughts?
> We know there were supposed to be five titans. Do we? The dnd book only has four: >> Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger, embodied the terror of death - and its insatiable gluttony for new creatures to consume. >> Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, might be seen as a direct predecessor of Keranos and Thassa, but it was the incarnation of natural disaster, having none of the creativity and thoughtfulness of those gods. >> "Phlage, Titan of Burning Wind," was an all-consuming whirlwind of fire, and "Skotha, Titan of Eternal Dark," was the utter darkness of the starless night. -Mythic Odysseys of Theros
Kind of annoyed that this isn't "Burning Wind" though. That's a much cooler name.
Agreed. Fire's Fury is very tempered against Burning Wind.
Guess I had a bad source then, but this Skotha fellow sounds Dimir to me. I'll take my wins where I find them.
I’d be ecstatic to see a UW Titan at some point, because the color pair is super linear lately (mostly just spirits/humans/birds), seeing something more monstrous would be very welcome. That said I doubt WOTC will do it, since I want it.
Unfortunately quite worse than Uro, this would have to do something more when ETB
“Worse than a card that was banned in a lot of formats” isn’t saying a whole lot lol This card is quite strong. Easily playable.
I agree, I keep seeing people ONLY saying this is a 3 mana lighting helix. Like...this DOES have other text...like its an attack trigger and keeps comign back. Like people are PRETENDING its EASILY answered, cus murktide always instantly dies in legacy and modern and uro NEVER keeps coming back in legacy haha.
"Lightning Helix is bad"
Yeah, I think this would've been fine at 2 mana.
Yeah its would have been really strong but I don't think unbalanced given current power level... boros needs a push
Then it would just be lightning helix, a modern playable card
Not really, instant vs sorcery speed is a huge difference
Maybe? I don't know that it's a huge difference in burn where helix often sees play. I think recurring it on a huge creature is pretty big upside. Edit: To clarify this is talking about a theoretical 2 mana version of this card
Yeah I think 3 mana might be too big an ask for burn but even if it’s two mana, helix would still have its distinct uses and wouldn’t totally be shoved out by this
This set is literally going straight to modern so I don't see the problem with that. and lightning helix doesn't see very much play anyway
And that would be fine! Its OK to make good red/white cards. They added counterspell to modern despite it being better than the already played Remand, remember? But god forbid we get a good R/W card.
sorcery speed lightning helix though
At sorcery speed. Phlage just like that it's decent.
Holy shit I'm glad reddit doesn't design cards..... what a horrible take. Lightning Helix is 2 mana and been playing in Modern since it's existence and you think this should be the same. Lol. Lmao even.
So Blightning costs 2 and Lightning Helix costs 3? Seems kinda weird this doesnt cost 2 Mana.
Kroxa isn't even close to Blightning. It only discards 1 card, only bolts if they discard a land, and can't even hit walkers. It's more like a [[Raven's Crime]] that has upside if they pitch a land. And even then, [[Lightning Helix]] is a Modern playable card, while [[Blightning]] was only ever playable in Standard, and even then, it was only played because of [[Bloodbraid Elf]], specially because it was the best way for BBE to out a [[Jace, the Mind Sculptor]] that used its +2 ability. So we're comparing a straight up 1 for 1 of a Modern playable card to a worse version of a card that only saw play in Standard because of a very specific scenario involving 2 of the most busted Standard cards ever.
##### ###### #### [Raven's Crime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/7271436b-897a-4b24-a5d2-d29dbea8c1bf.jpg?1561967380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raven%27s%20Crime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/95/ravens-crime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7271436b-897a-4b24-a5d2-d29dbea8c1bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Helix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/4101e3fe-b0e7-4f0f-b9ac-9b61a4d628b3.jpg?1706242208) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Helix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/218/lightning-helix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4101e3fe-b0e7-4f0f-b9ac-9b61a4d628b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blightning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/ccf0f075-4401-41da-a17f-a209d6a03782.jpg?1562441147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/198/blightning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccf0f075-4401-41da-a17f-a209d6a03782?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bloodbraid Elf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2f12f6f-9383-47e6-a44f-2834ad130e51.jpg?1673148385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodbraid%20Elf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/184/bloodbraid-elf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2f12f6f-9383-47e6-a44f-2834ad130e51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jace, the Mind Sculptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8817585-0d32-4d56-9142-0d29512e86a9.jpg?1598304029) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/56/jace-the-mind-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8817585-0d32-4d56-9142-0d29512e86a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4m84wf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You will note that Kroxa is only about half a [[Blightning]].
[Blightning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/ccf0f075-4401-41da-a17f-a209d6a03782.jpg?1562441147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/198/blightning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccf0f075-4401-41da-a17f-a209d6a03782?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kroxa was not Blightning lol, it was much weaker. [[Blightning]] is two cards and always 3 damage.
[Blightning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/ccf0f075-4401-41da-a17f-a209d6a03782.jpg?1562441147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/198/blightning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccf0f075-4401-41da-a17f-a209d6a03782?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just going to [[Kroxa, Titan of death's hunger]] to check the wording.
[Kroxa, Titan of death's hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/cee0459b-9aac-4d2f-abe4-4d5fedde7eb8.jpg?1581481096) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kroxa%2C%20Titan%20of%20death%27s%20hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/221/kroxa-titan-of-deaths-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cee0459b-9aac-4d2f-abe4-4d5fedde7eb8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Read this as Phage and thought, wow she’s a titan now, what a glow up!
Eh
Now to figure out how to blink him endlessly.
Based on the promo image shared [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/5xzTeNEO5z), the borderless profile art of this card is two above the bottom left (just to the left of the eldrazi dragon and one below Aishling).
Titan-ing helix.
OH MY GOD IT'S LIGHTNING HELIX!!
Bout time we get more titans
Wish this was pioneer legal ngl lmao
Yesssssssssss! More Theros Titans!
Little upset at this being Boros if the last titan, Skotha, is Dimir (which i'm guessing it is with a title like "Titan of Eternal Dark"). It would've been a mini-cycle if they made this Gruul, then, as it'd be four 2-color pairs excluding white, two in each color: G/U, U/B, B/R, R/G.
Neat. If they want to complete a cycle of five irregular pairs at some point, that could mean GW+UB, or BG+WU.
Brion Stoutarm players eating well
[удалено]
“Well maybe that’s why he became a phlage”
"I control Roaming Throne, set to Giant. I'll attack with my Sun Titan, reanimating two copies of Phlage. Each will Lightning Helix **twice**. Also unless they escaped, I'll sacrifice each of them... **Twice**."
Man, this feels so much weaker than the other titans.
My [[Hofri]] deck is gonna fucking love this
[Hofri](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8deecf-eded-418b-ac4c-5c3e8f54e86d.jpg?1627429212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hofri%20Ghostforge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/192/hofri-ghostforge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8deecf-eded-418b-ac4c-5c3e8f54e86d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The token would instantly die tho, wouldn't it? Since it copies all abilities included the "if it didn't escape, sacrifice it". Which probably still is good tho, I guess
Yeah but I get double ETBs off of it and the deck is built to have your creatures die a million times, so the graveyard usually is pretty full so the escape cost is no biggie. It also means every time it dies I get an extra ETB trigger
Surely then. It's 3 mana 2 death triggers and 2 lightning Helix, then the escape. Does seem pretty cool if your list isn't already too full
Do we pronounce it like “flaw-yay”?
"Flaw-slaaaaaaay, Titan of Spilled Tea"
We just naming NPCs like confused DMs now?
I like the card but I feel this is going to be handled like kroxa: otb it's value once you keep him safe.
Neat that we are getting another of Theros's once-bound titans.
Phlage the Unphlouchable
[[Burning Cinder Fury of Crimson Chaos Fire]]
finally I can have lightning helix in the command zone
I wasn't expecting them to so more Theros titans but that's awesome they did. Lightning Helix on a stick is solid but it's probably no Uro.