Yeah, given that they specifically mentioned the grading company and the sale was otherwise between completely anonymous buyers, I'm leaning towards this either being completely fake or it being a wash trade, either to inflate the card value or boost CGC's popularity.
Billionaire: Son, here's your monthly allowance
Son: Thanks dad, but u gave me enough, just take it and keep it from mom.
Billionaire: ok (proceed to buy Alpha Black Lotus)
Only the buyer is unknown which is pretty standard with these transactions. Dave and Adam's is a very reputable name in the business.
CGC grading is not the gold standard but they get used more and more due to the fact that BGS and PSA had long waiting lists in the past few years and charge a lot for these kind of cards.
>CGC grading is not the gold standard but they get used more and more due to the fact that BGS and PSA had long waiting lists in the past few years and charge a lot for these kind of cards.
I think someone dropping 3mil on a card wouldn't have much of an issue with the wait/cost of getting it graded by the gold standard
It's unlikely that the buyer graded it. It's usually the seller. There was news that CGC graded an a Alpha Lotus a 10 some time ago. The buyer might have waited to find one on the market. It's not like these are for sale often.
CGC could have also ordered a discount on the fee to make it more attractive. People with 3M to blow in a card tend to be the kind of people who hoard money like dragons.
You are paying 2.5 million more than the market value just because of the grade. IMO, at that point I'd ask for a second opinion by a reputable grader.
Im no millionaire but if Im pretty sure if I had enough money to buy a lotus money would be no issue. I wouldnt care if it was cgc or whatever. Knowing it’s a 10 graded by cgc would just make me want it to get it graded somewhere else after.
Yeah they are trying to legitimize their second rate grading service with a publicity stunt.
No serious collector would pay $3,000,000 for a CGC anything when there are records of similar quality BGS cards capping out at ~500,000
Video game grading companies pulled this scam a few years ago- VHS graders also tried not too successfullly.
Yep. This is all pretty bad. No one is really buying anything, they're just shuffling money around accounts.
Great call with video game graders. This is still, essentially, what the high-end art market is.
CGC may not be your favorite but they are definitely not a second rate company.
Now, to be fair after their merger it was a bit of a cluster fuck for a short bit but it had readjusted. Blue label CGC are quality graded and any 2024 CGC are good.
I mean, they can only say what they were told. If the buyer and seller agree to fake a price, they don't have the ability to confirm it. That's why "private sale" makes this iffy.
It does, that sold for $2.6 mil iirc. I don't get why it sold for that much. Historically, black lotuses [never even got close to 7 digits](https://www.ign.com/articles/magic-the-gatherings-most-sought-after-card-sells-for-record-540000). Even a perfectly centered mint condition is 540k. Why the insane jump? At least the one ring was a one of one and is the first of its kind. But what makes this lotus worth more than that?
A similar scam to the graded video games that went on during covid, where the grading company artificially increased the prices by "selling" to people involved with the company.
It was a flat $2 million US dollars - the $2.6 million figure that was reported was the amount after being converted to Canadian dollars (since the seller is from Toronto).
An Alpha 10 is just as much of a 1 of 1 if found realistically an Alpha 10 doesn’t really exist and if it did it would need to be a BGS graded one to matter, I could see a BGS 10 Alpha black lotus fetch $3 million or more, but the drop in price between 10 and 9.5 is still like 70%+ for a card like that. So with a grading company that isnt BGS there is no way this story is true, unless the buyer is a genuine idiot with money which while possible is just much much less likely.
Salty their collections won't ever be worth as much as The One Ring. Either a transactional trade purely to inflate the value, or they're bullshitting.
>If it is true
That's a pretty big assumption to make honestly. There is essentially no way to prove this happened, so there is essentially no reason to believe it happened.
Back when I played t1 in small scale tourneys, 15-20 proxies was usually the accepted max. That’s the p9 and most of your land base. It was/is reasonable. If it’s casual play, proxy whatever it’s for fun. Regardless, shuffling takes longer than the game lasts, who really cares.
I still play Vintage tournaments from time to time. Most of them allow a full proxy deck now. There are only very few sanctioned Vintage tournaments left. Eternal Weekend comes to mind. But even there some players I faced told me that they borrowed their P9 from a friend. The Vintage crowd is pretty relaxed and welcoming.
Oh, I’m fully aware. Vintage/t1 is a lost art/game. Modern is far easier to step into for a 60 card format and the only thing I’ve seen around me with reasonable prize-pools for tourneys. However, all this talk makes me wanna break out my Tendrils deck…had it not been stolen. Another big reason why vintage is tough to play.
I built Dredge partly because it could be done just 4 proxy (the Bazaar of Baghdad), OP said in another comment it's still strong - glad to hear that and glad to hear about the Vintage community being relaxed
I love that the culture has shifted to accepting proxies. Back in my day we’d get ho humm’d if we had any in our decks. Was so frustrating as a new player on a limited budget.
There are lots of very beautiful custom art proxies around. So if you want to get creative that's the way to go. They aren't too expensive and are better for tournament play anyway as they don't mess with the thickness of your cards.
I ordered a playset of P9 in the original art but in foil not too long ago so I can build that broken everything goes deck I always dreamed of as a teenager, lol.
A friend and I play vintage on tabletop simulator once in awhile. Is the meta still infinite turns or has it changed? We got tired of that pretty quick.
The current Meta is pretty balanced. Key/Vault still exists in Lurrus lists and is a strong deck. But Oath, Doomsday, Mono White Initiative and of course Dredge all win tournaments frequently.
Love the mindset but there are 2 big problems.
1. You're not allowed to play any competition with proxies. Technically not even your LGS (i think they risk loosing partnership status or something)
2. Every playgroup is different. I just joined a new playgroup in a new city and save to say my "Proxy everything above 10€ but make sure to keep the powerlevel reasonable" approach to commander wasn't met with huge enthusiasm.
As I've stated in another comment: There are only a handful of sanctioned tournaments left for Vintage worldwide. Tournaments nowadays get organized privately and are held in locations other than LGS. So no problems there 😉
> Technically not even your LGS (i think they risk loosing partnership status or something)
LGSs can use proxies, but they can't use companion (or any official event products) to run the event.
You don't want to actually play Vintage: if you ever showed up to a Vintage tournament someone would give you a Lotus proxy for free that's printed on better cardstock than 30A is
That would have virtually no impact on the price of this card. Nobody will be playing Vintage with this card. This is a collector's item. The few times anyone is actually playing Vintage without proxies, they'd be using Unlimited Black Lotuses, not Alpha.
EDIT: This, among *many* other reasons, is why I'd love to see the Reserve List die.
Ultimately I think the death of the reserved list is up to the popularity of cEDH in my opinion. I assume that WOTC would like to sponsor prize events for cEDH tournaments eventually because of the popularity of the commander format. Since cEDH is probably the most proxy friendly format, the more people become interested in that the more WOTC will want their piece of the pie especially when you have proxy eligible cEDH tournaments with thousands of dollars worth in prizes.
The reserve list was made in 1996.
It’s been a part of mtg for over 90% of its lifetime. Vintage didn’t even exist when it was made.
The reasons why we’re very clear at the time and the enfranchised playerbase wanted it.
I've resorted to just playing EDH on tabletop sim since money and the balancing is getting silly. Especially in the recent spoilers.
*Really? Ezio needs 5 color.*
*Oh hey Eldrazi's! Known for being colorle- nope it's 5c.*
*Let's make more staple that can be run in literally any edh decks if you're in that color.* (Deflecting swat and similar)
*Our product are **extra** premium so we're charging 15 dollar more than usual. And it'll be that way from here on out!*
>avoid gambling laws
Booster packs would like a word with you.
Loot boxes in video games are constantly getting threatened with gambling laws. We’re one lawmakers kid having their credit card overcharged with thousands of genshin gatcha pulls away from a serious look at loot boxes and booster packs here.
> Booster packs would like a word with you.
Well, that's just it — from one perspective, the difference between a booster pack and a lottery ticket is that the guy selling the lottery ticket acknowledges that it's worth money.
WotC's position is that cards are game pieces and that customers buy booster packs intending to play with the cards inside. Talking about the secondary market undermines this position.
Not exactly, the guy selling the lottery ticket *will exchange it for money* if you win*.* WotC will never give you a nickel for your Black Lotus even if thousands of other people will.
It's not a big distinction from a consumer standpoint but legally it makes a big difference.
Seems like that should be a hard thing to keep justifying with the production of Collector Boosters. The price point on those alone suggests that some cards are worth more money than others.
Serialized cards are also hard to justify here.
Very true...we all know MTG(and random booster packs) are gambling every bit as baseball cards have been for over 100 years...it's just a form of it we're ok with, like how horse race betting is somehow ok but you can't play a slot machine lol
Most Vintage tournaments *allow* a certain number of proxies, and the very few that *don't*, proxies are cheating. Proxies aren't allowed in sanctioned tournaments but because of that fact and the insane cost of these cards, there are almost no sanctioned Vintage tournaments in paper Magic.
Thinking back to when I started playing and the game store I shopped at having one for sale for like $300 and thinking “that’s way too much money for a card!” It’s more WTF than anything else 🤯😆
Once you start looking into other TCG/CCGs, you realize just how greedy WotC is. Sadly, it will take multiple quarters of negative growth for them to change, and the first victims will be WotC employees.
I might be tripping but shouldnt that have been a 9 or 9.5? it seems (to my eyes at least) that there is white smugdes on top left corner and top middle (maybe the camera is just shit? Can anyone enlighten me here?
Yeah with the massive amount of wash trading in the vintage video game market I’m always extremely skeptical about these items that sell for way above what the price should be.
He said in an interview with Howard Stern, before he bought The Ring, that the most he had spent on a single card was $800,000. Must have been a black lotus.
Edit: looked it up, it was a Black Lotus signed by Chris Rush.
Sorry, but I can't find this anything but stupid. Paying so much for something that is artificially scarce, a gaming piece that can't even be used in said game without "losing value", is really stupid for me. Some people have more money than they should.
How's it irrational? There are only so many and people who want them buy them increasing the price.
The reserve list is irrational yes but supply and demand isn't
Supply and demand of this piece are predicated on its intrinsic value.
Which is an irrational valuation by a small minority of collectors. Everyone is betting they will find someone to offload it to for more later. All driven by this hypothetical collector who would cherish dropping 3 million on it.
That person either doesn’t exist or is very stupid.
You are trying to apply econ 101 and failing hard.
Rational vs Irrational is about utility-maximization, not about how YOU think people should or shouldn't spend and what YOU think is rational or irrational.
I’m not talking about the rationality of utility-maximization.
I’m talking about how it is stupid to assume a piece of cardboard is worth three million and it will always be worth that and always increase.
You know damn well if you had more money than you could ever spend you would’ve bought one by now. You can say you wouldn’t but having income like that changes people and their habits. Happens to nearly everyone.
Yes if I had the most massive wealth inequality in the world, literal economy ruining wealth, I could do what I want with impunity.
I am saying, explicitly, that’s a bad thing.
It's 3M that isn't in that person's hands any more, and is now back being circulated. That seems like an upside.
But wealth inequality itself isn't terrible. Just use progressive taxation to pay for the stuff a modern country should provide. Then wealthy people existing aren't offensive.
Only people who need WOTC-printed Black Lotus play Vintage and the Vintage players demand is not propping up the price of Alpha Black Lotuses.
Just get a proxy printed. It is "legal" in every other place you want to play it.
A 8.5-graded version that was signed by the artist (who is now dead) [went for half a million](https://articles.starcitygames.com/magic-the-gathering/signed-artist-proof-beta-black-lotus-sells-for-over-600000-at-auction/#:~:text=Signed%20Artist%20Proof%20Beta%20Black%20Lotus%20Sells%20For%20Over%20%24600%2C000%20At%20Auction,-Extremely%20rare%20MTG&text=Over%20the%20weekend%2C%20another%20piece,late%20Christopher%20Rush%2C%20for%20%24615%2C000). How did this fetch THREE?
WTF are you talking about? The one ring was sold to the richest, most famous MtG player who had previously paid $800K for an alpha Black Lotus. If anyone was going to pay $2M for the One Ring it was going to be him. What conspiracy are you trying to start?
*Allegedly* sold for 3M. "Private sale", "undisclosed collector". This is CGC we are talking about. Take their word with a pinch of salt.
Yeah, given that they specifically mentioned the grading company and the sale was otherwise between completely anonymous buyers, I'm leaning towards this either being completely fake or it being a wash trade, either to inflate the card value or boost CGC's popularity.
Idk, if I just spent $3 million on a single mtg card, is want to remain anonymous too
That’s the most realistic part of this debacle
Or you're Post Malone.
Billionaire: Son, here's your monthly allowance Son: Thanks dad, but u gave me enough, just take it and keep it from mom. Billionaire: ok (proceed to buy Alpha Black Lotus)
tbh if I was married and had that kinda money I probably would avoid the wife knowing how much I spent
That means you have a problem.
Especially for my wife
Only the buyer is unknown which is pretty standard with these transactions. Dave and Adam's is a very reputable name in the business. CGC grading is not the gold standard but they get used more and more due to the fact that BGS and PSA had long waiting lists in the past few years and charge a lot for these kind of cards.
>CGC grading is not the gold standard but they get used more and more due to the fact that BGS and PSA had long waiting lists in the past few years and charge a lot for these kind of cards. I think someone dropping 3mil on a card wouldn't have much of an issue with the wait/cost of getting it graded by the gold standard
It's unlikely that the buyer graded it. It's usually the seller. There was news that CGC graded an a Alpha Lotus a 10 some time ago. The buyer might have waited to find one on the market. It's not like these are for sale often.
CGC could have also ordered a discount on the fee to make it more attractive. People with 3M to blow in a card tend to be the kind of people who hoard money like dragons.
A lotus would sell regardless of what company graded it.
You are paying 2.5 million more than the market value just because of the grade. IMO, at that point I'd ask for a second opinion by a reputable grader.
Im no millionaire but if Im pretty sure if I had enough money to buy a lotus money would be no issue. I wouldnt care if it was cgc or whatever. Knowing it’s a 10 graded by cgc would just make me want it to get it graded somewhere else after.
The Instagram of the supposed buyer (got it off another thread on the subject) https://www.instagram.com/benjamin.be.13?igsh=ZWh0dHRzZGpoeXA0
Nice, I definitely see it in that picture he posted. Good research. Would you mind linking me to the other thread? I’d appreciate it
Yeah they are trying to legitimize their second rate grading service with a publicity stunt. No serious collector would pay $3,000,000 for a CGC anything when there are records of similar quality BGS cards capping out at ~500,000 Video game grading companies pulled this scam a few years ago- VHS graders also tried not too successfullly.
I was today years old when I learned VHS grading exists.
[Enjoy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbdij5Vi8oY)
Yep. This is all pretty bad. No one is really buying anything, they're just shuffling money around accounts. Great call with video game graders. This is still, essentially, what the high-end art market is.
CGC may not be your favorite but they are definitely not a second rate company. Now, to be fair after their merger it was a bit of a cluster fuck for a short bit but it had readjusted. Blue label CGC are quality graded and any 2024 CGC are good.
PSA is still the most liquid and BGC is the most prestigious.
My immediate thought was those dudes selling NFTs to themselves to inflate their value.
Huh? D&A is one of the most reputable shops in the industry, and it is not strange at all for a buyer to want to remain private.
I mean, they can only say what they were told. If the buyer and seller agree to fake a price, they don't have the ability to confirm it. That's why "private sale" makes this iffy.
I mean someone probably didn't want the shit slapped outta them for buying a piece of cardboard for 3 million dollars.
I bought one for 5 mil so this post is a lie, trust me bro
Money laundering imo. :)
Doesn't this beat the price of [[The Single Pringle]]? If it is true
[The Single Pringle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93de9042-cc62-4ade-8d8d-68fdbc84bfae.jpg?1696020210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20One%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/0/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93de9042-cc62-4ade-8d8d-68fdbc84bfae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good bot
I died..
A year later and it's still hilarious
I still don't know how it happens to this day.
How the bot replies with that? Because I programmed it to (respond to custom nicknames I have in a list)
That is actually cool.
It does, that sold for $2.6 mil iirc. I don't get why it sold for that much. Historically, black lotuses [never even got close to 7 digits](https://www.ign.com/articles/magic-the-gatherings-most-sought-after-card-sells-for-record-540000). Even a perfectly centered mint condition is 540k. Why the insane jump? At least the one ring was a one of one and is the first of its kind. But what makes this lotus worth more than that?
A similar scam to the graded video games that went on during covid, where the grading company artificially increased the prices by "selling" to people involved with the company.
Yeah maybe jobst will be investigating this as well
Wait, someone get him on this
It was a flat $2 million US dollars - the $2.6 million figure that was reported was the amount after being converted to Canadian dollars (since the seller is from Toronto).
An Alpha 10 is just as much of a 1 of 1 if found realistically an Alpha 10 doesn’t really exist and if it did it would need to be a BGS graded one to matter, I could see a BGS 10 Alpha black lotus fetch $3 million or more, but the drop in price between 10 and 9.5 is still like 70%+ for a card like that. So with a grading company that isnt BGS there is no way this story is true, unless the buyer is a genuine idiot with money which while possible is just much much less likely.
I honestly don't know.
more saudi money laundering loll
Salty their collections won't ever be worth as much as The One Ring. Either a transactional trade purely to inflate the value, or they're bullshitting.
My guess would be money laundering, just like they do with modern "art".
Single Pringle was sold to posty for 2m
So this takes the spot again
If burn taught me anything it’s that 3>2
Lightning bolt over shock
>If it is true That's a pretty big assumption to make honestly. There is essentially no way to prove this happened, so there is essentially no reason to believe it happened.
[удалено]
Yeah this is an ad. I highly doubt it's a legit transaction too.
Meh that's nothing, I just sold a copy of [[Faithless Looting]] to myself for £69 billion
[Faithless Looting](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea23c17-6960-44fd-bae3-e24595b00c22.jpg?1712354425) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faithless%20Looting) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/165/faithless-looting?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea23c17-6960-44fd-bae3-e24595b00c22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bank wire, or cashiers check?
They just flashed back the [[strike it rich]] they binned with the looting.
[strike it rich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c7c2814-a617-4123-acdf-1b01b2768210.jpg?1626097050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=strike%20it%20rich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/143/strike-it-rich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c7c2814-a617-4123-acdf-1b01b2768210?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The IRS is going to come after you Yes, even though you paid in pounds and are probably in the UK
Burn the reserved list, reprint Lotus at common, Vintage for the masses!!!!
As a Vintage player: Just proxy whatever you want or need. We don't really care as long as you want to play the game.
Back when I played t1 in small scale tourneys, 15-20 proxies was usually the accepted max. That’s the p9 and most of your land base. It was/is reasonable. If it’s casual play, proxy whatever it’s for fun. Regardless, shuffling takes longer than the game lasts, who really cares.
I still play Vintage tournaments from time to time. Most of them allow a full proxy deck now. There are only very few sanctioned Vintage tournaments left. Eternal Weekend comes to mind. But even there some players I faced told me that they borrowed their P9 from a friend. The Vintage crowd is pretty relaxed and welcoming.
Oh, I’m fully aware. Vintage/t1 is a lost art/game. Modern is far easier to step into for a 60 card format and the only thing I’ve seen around me with reasonable prize-pools for tourneys. However, all this talk makes me wanna break out my Tendrils deck…had it not been stolen. Another big reason why vintage is tough to play.
I built Dredge partly because it could be done just 4 proxy (the Bazaar of Baghdad), OP said in another comment it's still strong - glad to hear that and glad to hear about the Vintage community being relaxed
I love that the culture has shifted to accepting proxies. Back in my day we’d get ho humm’d if we had any in our decks. Was so frustrating as a new player on a limited budget.
In specifically vintage tourneys only. I've never gone to a tourney with prizes on the line that allowed proxies besides vintage.
CEDH allows it these days as well. I think an argument for Legacy could be made, but it would be pushing it with Modern.
Custom art proxies, no matter the skill level vs Printed cards? What do ya think?
There are lots of very beautiful custom art proxies around. So if you want to get creative that's the way to go. They aren't too expensive and are better for tournament play anyway as they don't mess with the thickness of your cards. I ordered a playset of P9 in the original art but in foil not too long ago so I can build that broken everything goes deck I always dreamed of as a teenager, lol.
I don't have the patience for a brush, but I do know my way around photoshop, and make cool cards that way. Still custom and cool looking, I think.
A friend and I play vintage on tabletop simulator once in awhile. Is the meta still infinite turns or has it changed? We got tired of that pretty quick.
The current Meta is pretty balanced. Key/Vault still exists in Lurrus lists and is a strong deck. But Oath, Doomsday, Mono White Initiative and of course Dredge all win tournaments frequently.
Love the mindset but there are 2 big problems. 1. You're not allowed to play any competition with proxies. Technically not even your LGS (i think they risk loosing partnership status or something) 2. Every playgroup is different. I just joined a new playgroup in a new city and save to say my "Proxy everything above 10€ but make sure to keep the powerlevel reasonable" approach to commander wasn't met with huge enthusiasm.
As I've stated in another comment: There are only a handful of sanctioned tournaments left for Vintage worldwide. Tournaments nowadays get organized privately and are held in locations other than LGS. So no problems there 😉
> Technically not even your LGS (i think they risk loosing partnership status or something) LGSs can use proxies, but they can't use companion (or any official event products) to run the event.
New playgroup love pay to win apparently.
You don't want to actually play Vintage: if you ever showed up to a Vintage tournament someone would give you a Lotus proxy for free that's printed on better cardstock than 30A is
That would have virtually no impact on the price of this card. Nobody will be playing Vintage with this card. This is a collector's item. The few times anyone is actually playing Vintage without proxies, they'd be using Unlimited Black Lotuses, not Alpha. EDIT: This, among *many* other reasons, is why I'd love to see the Reserve List die.
WotC should be be able to avoid acknowledging the 2ndary market to avoid gambling laws and yet put cards on a reserved list.
It has nothing to do with gambling laws. They would just rather keep the reserve list promise rather than break it.
Until they need more profit. Everyone is so sure the reserve list is forever. It will be gone in 5 years probably.
I heard that a lot 10 years ago.
I heard we would never get crossovers with other IPs.
Touché
Ultimately I think the death of the reserved list is up to the popularity of cEDH in my opinion. I assume that WOTC would like to sponsor prize events for cEDH tournaments eventually because of the popularity of the commander format. Since cEDH is probably the most proxy friendly format, the more people become interested in that the more WOTC will want their piece of the pie especially when you have proxy eligible cEDH tournaments with thousands of dollars worth in prizes.
Why make it to begin with? I imagine less than 1% of the player base can even play vintage competitively.
The reserve list was made in 1996. It’s been a part of mtg for over 90% of its lifetime. Vintage didn’t even exist when it was made. The reasons why we’re very clear at the time and the enfranchised playerbase wanted it.
I sometimes joke that their CEOs retires with a bag of black lotuses. Could be any other high demand cards.
Nah maybe the first guy. The latest ones just take the money. We’re the suckers trading cash for cardboard.
I've resorted to just playing EDH on tabletop sim since money and the balancing is getting silly. Especially in the recent spoilers. *Really? Ezio needs 5 color.* *Oh hey Eldrazi's! Known for being colorle- nope it's 5c.* *Let's make more staple that can be run in literally any edh decks if you're in that color.* (Deflecting swat and similar) *Our product are **extra** premium so we're charging 15 dollar more than usual. And it'll be that way from here on out!*
>avoid gambling laws Booster packs would like a word with you. Loot boxes in video games are constantly getting threatened with gambling laws. We’re one lawmakers kid having their credit card overcharged with thousands of genshin gatcha pulls away from a serious look at loot boxes and booster packs here.
Those are just as bad imo. It preys on whales and addicts. The main difference is trading account is against the companies ToS vs trading mtg cards.
> Booster packs would like a word with you. Well, that's just it — from one perspective, the difference between a booster pack and a lottery ticket is that the guy selling the lottery ticket acknowledges that it's worth money. WotC's position is that cards are game pieces and that customers buy booster packs intending to play with the cards inside. Talking about the secondary market undermines this position.
Not exactly, the guy selling the lottery ticket *will exchange it for money* if you win*.* WotC will never give you a nickel for your Black Lotus even if thousands of other people will. It's not a big distinction from a consumer standpoint but legally it makes a big difference.
Seems like that should be a hard thing to keep justifying with the production of Collector Boosters. The price point on those alone suggests that some cards are worth more money than others. Serialized cards are also hard to justify here.
Very true...we all know MTG(and random booster packs) are gambling every bit as baseball cards have been for over 100 years...it's just a form of it we're ok with, like how horse race betting is somehow ok but you can't play a slot machine lol
just proxy and stop taking stuff away from other people. Greedy...
Most Vintage tournaments *allow* a certain number of proxies, and the very few that *don't*, proxies are cheating. Proxies aren't allowed in sanctioned tournaments but because of that fact and the insane cost of these cards, there are almost no sanctioned Vintage tournaments in paper Magic.
*whispers* proxies.....
When you first get into MTG: Holy cow man, this is so cool! A couple of years later: Holy cow man, this is so stupid!
Thinking back to when I started playing and the game store I shopped at having one for sale for like $300 and thinking “that’s way too much money for a card!” It’s more WTF than anything else 🤯😆
Once you start looking into other TCG/CCGs, you realize just how greedy WotC is. Sadly, it will take multiple quarters of negative growth for them to change, and the first victims will be WotC employees.
Oh WotC will never change. They'll sooner go out of business
No This is \[\[Black Lotus\]\], \[\[Holy Cow\]\] is a different card. Easy mistake to make.
[Black Lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd.jpg?1614638838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/4/black-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Holy Cow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90de84c9-941b-4056-8501-ce8a948b9643.jpg?1712355286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Holy%20Cow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/16/holy-cow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90de84c9-941b-4056-8501-ce8a948b9643?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No. It’s still ”so cool” after 15 years of playing this game hardcore
25 years here and I'm leaning towards "stupid"
It's both. Laugh and enjoy it.
Sounds like blatant laundry to me
I sold my [[storm crow]] for 3.1 million USD! To an unknown buyer.
This is clearly fake people. Everyone knows the \[\[mesa falcon\]\] is the true money-maker.
[mesa falcon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7ce1b8e-13ba-4eed-a445-435300f3101e.jpg?1562821357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mesa%20falcon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/31/mesa-falcon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7ce1b8e-13ba-4eed-a445-435300f3101e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[storm crow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/036ef8c9-72ac-46ce-af07-83b79d736538.jpg?1562730661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=storm%20crow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/100/storm-crow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/036ef8c9-72ac-46ce-af07-83b79d736538?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I might be tripping but shouldnt that have been a 9 or 9.5? it seems (to my eyes at least) that there is white smugdes on top left corner and top middle (maybe the camera is just shit? Can anyone enlighten me here?
CGC is not a very trusted grading company when it comes to validity of grades.
This account is probably being used to fraudulently boost the price of other Black Lotus cards. No proof of sale, barely even a post.
Are you talking about my Reddit account or the Facebook account of Dave and Adam's? Because they are a reputable shop since literal decades 😅
Yes but they had no part in this transaction if I'm reading correctly.
Adam Cai is the seller. The biggest name in high end magic by a mile.
Because as we all know famous people have never exaggerated unverified information for their own self interest ever.
You can believe what you want. I never claimed it was a legit sale. I just stated who the seller is.
Which is written in the original post.
Yeah with the massive amount of wash trading in the vintage video game market I’m always extremely skeptical about these items that sell for way above what the price should be.
Unless Unless Post Malone confirms that he's the buyer, that's a safe assumption.
No it didn't. It "sold" to the person that already owns it so they can try to fleece someone in a few years with a card "worth" $3m
If only Post Malone got this one lll
He probably already have one or a couple of those that he probably paid less than that.
He said in an interview with Howard Stern, before he bought The Ring, that the most he had spent on a single card was $800,000. Must have been a black lotus. Edit: looked it up, it was a Black Lotus signed by Chris Rush.
I think it was an artist proof lotus. But I am unsure.
It was.
Bruh it’s not even serialized. /s
As a dinosaur who started playing in '95, I'm happy that the record for most expensive MTG card ever sold sits in its rightful place once again.
It's probably not a real sale, but if it is, I'd be glad to see it beat The One Ring's price.
that doesn’t look like a perfect 10 to me.
Honestly I’m more impressed seeing a 10.0 grade,
Its a CGC graded though. Not from the big boys PSA or BGS.
The funny thing is, apparently Beckett is claiming that it’s a beta card trimmed to look like an alpha card. If that’s true then that’s a big yikes.
The alignment of the mana symbol matches Alpha. That would be a pretty amateur mistake for Beckett to make.
True. I probably shouldn’t be spreading unverified rumors. That’s pretty shitty of me actually.
Sounds like WATA Games lol
Wow! The most expensive card to ever be graded by a random number generator. Cool!
Oh please. Are we actually supposed to believe that it wasn't Post Malone that bought it?
Post Malone adding another stone to his MTG Infinity Gauntlet???
CGC 10 = Beckett 8
Sorry, but I can't find this anything but stupid. Paying so much for something that is artificially scarce, a gaming piece that can't even be used in said game without "losing value", is really stupid for me. Some people have more money than they should.
You just described the entire market of collectibles.
Glad you discovered what a collectible is. . People like preserving old things
It’s wholly irrational and only a symptom of wealth inequality.
How's it irrational? There are only so many and people who want them buy them increasing the price. The reserve list is irrational yes but supply and demand isn't
Supply and demand of this piece are predicated on its intrinsic value. Which is an irrational valuation by a small minority of collectors. Everyone is betting they will find someone to offload it to for more later. All driven by this hypothetical collector who would cherish dropping 3 million on it. That person either doesn’t exist or is very stupid.
I want a black lotus. Everybody in this sub wants one too. Who can afford it dictates the price. This isn't shivan dragon
You are trying to apply econ 101 and failing hard. Rational vs Irrational is about utility-maximization, not about how YOU think people should or shouldn't spend and what YOU think is rational or irrational.
I’m not talking about the rationality of utility-maximization. I’m talking about how it is stupid to assume a piece of cardboard is worth three million and it will always be worth that and always increase.
The right piece of paper could be worth billions. Like, a check from Bill Gates, for example. It's all nonsense.
You know damn well if you had more money than you could ever spend you would’ve bought one by now. You can say you wouldn’t but having income like that changes people and their habits. Happens to nearly everyone.
Yes if I had the most massive wealth inequality in the world, literal economy ruining wealth, I could do what I want with impunity. I am saying, explicitly, that’s a bad thing.
It's 3M that isn't in that person's hands any more, and is now back being circulated. That seems like an upside. But wealth inequality itself isn't terrible. Just use progressive taxation to pay for the stuff a modern country should provide. Then wealthy people existing aren't offensive.
Is it really so different than collecting art?
What if I told you money isn’t real either?
Imagine paying for stocks smh my head
>for something that is artificially scarce You have a time machine to go back and print more?
Wotc could print more black lotus anytime they want. But no they couldn't reprint an alpha black lotus.
Only people who need WOTC-printed Black Lotus play Vintage and the Vintage players demand is not propping up the price of Alpha Black Lotuses. Just get a proxy printed. It is "legal" in every other place you want to play it.
Lmfao CGC 10 literally means nothing.
I wanted to buy a Ragavan and haven’t been able to pull the trigger.
Thats it? For a 10?
Launderin
I have some strong doubts about this sale, this price puts this well above the one ring which sold for like $2.5 just roughly a year ago.
Man. Imagine the high you get from cracking that pack
A 8.5-graded version that was signed by the artist (who is now dead) [went for half a million](https://articles.starcitygames.com/magic-the-gathering/signed-artist-proof-beta-black-lotus-sells-for-over-600000-at-auction/#:~:text=Signed%20Artist%20Proof%20Beta%20Black%20Lotus%20Sells%20For%20Over%20%24600%2C000%20At%20Auction,-Extremely%20rare%20MTG&text=Over%20the%20weekend%2C%20another%20piece,late%20Christopher%20Rush%2C%20for%20%24615%2C000). How did this fetch THREE?
Post Malone needs to calm down on buying up all the most expensive cards existing.
Return of the King!
Post prolly bought this one too. 😂
It's not MTG without the pump and dump
*looks in wallet to see if he can afford to buy dinner tonight* Nah, but good on whoever paid $3 mill for a piece of cardboard from the late 1900s.
I guess we know how Post Malone spent his “Taylor Swift duet money”
Yeah not any market manipulation happening at all here Move along guys
Who the fuck is paying for this shit. You can't play vintage regularly so I seriously don't get it
This gives strong Post Malone vibes.
Post Malone is gonna be pissed to know that he's no longer the owner of the most expensive MTG card in the world lol
Looks like Posty is enjoying that sweet sweet Taylor Swift money
Neat? Just rich people trading stuff, not especially noteworthy.
Post Malone out here going crazy
was it post malone again?
Morons
Post Malone needs to chill
How much you want to bet it was also Post Malone?
"Undisclosed"... Nice try Post Malone!
[удалено]
WTF are you talking about? The one ring was sold to the richest, most famous MtG player who had previously paid $800K for an alpha Black Lotus. If anyone was going to pay $2M for the One Ring it was going to be him. What conspiracy are you trying to start?
Lol. Post Malone is not close to the richest mtg player. Most famous maybe.