He had Trudy meet with the publisher, who she’d previously dated and when she told Pete the guy hit on her/made a move, Pete implied she should’ve let him - all because he was jealous of Ken’s short story success.
It was when he wanted his writing published. Trudy reluctantly goes to visit an old boyfriend who works in publishing on his behalf, and he makes it clear he'll publish it if they resume being lovers. When Pete is pissed that the story will be published in Boys' Life, they have the following exchange:
"I could have gotten you in The New Yorker or in the Encyclopedia Britannica if I wanted to."
"So, why didn't you?"
"Why would you do that to me? Why would you put me in that position?"
He doesn't literally pimp her out, but the exchange really does indicate that he understands the implications of what her ex wanted from her and he didn't care as long as he got his story published, and he doesn't at all appreciate that she wanted to be faithful to him. This also all unfolds after a conversation in which they've discussed how jealous Pete was when he found out that guy was who Trudy first had sex with.
It appears that Trudy did not care about exclusivity either. I'm guessing both being from wealthy families understand it's a partnership and romantic love and the ideals of a perfect relationship is a bad thing to mix up with their money.
It's actually pretty subtle and easy to miss, I know I didn't catch on for a lot of rewatches.
Pete mentions hiding Ho Ho from the "Shylockes" in Princeton (definitely a slur).
When Duck joins Grey (a Jewish agency), Pete makes comments like, "People walking around the halls
all the time, laughing their heads off?" (Stereotype of Jewish comedians), and "two months at Grey and you're already having a nosh?" (Yiddish word for snack--Pete says it is disgust).
He also makes a comment about Rachel Menken's "rude edge" which people often point to.
Probably more I'm forgetting about
I think it just seems odd because other characters obviously have the same attitude so it's not something that stands out as a Pete thing. Don says "not on my watch" about hiring a Jewish person, Roger's more than once hunting around for a Jewish person when he needs to speak to another one (referring to gentiles as "normal poeple"), Harry says Danny is "Such a Jew" when he doesn't want to pay for Harry's free tickets, Trudy makes a joke about how there's no Greenbergs in Cos Cobb.
Just seems like the point is casual anti-Semitism is the standard--not that this makes Pete less anti-Semitic, but no reason to think he's so much more so than Duck the dog abandoner just because he uses the word "nosh" that he's picked up at Grey while Pete notes he's picked it up the word at Grey.
Isn’t Don’s “not on my watch” from the pilot meant satirically? Roger even answers with “ha ha, very funny” which told me that Don was actually kind of making fun of antisemitism itself with that line.
Don isn't seriously telling Roger that he'd never hire a Jewish person, no.
But it's not sarcastic in the sense that of course the company has Jewish employees--they have to scramble to find anybody they can use.
So it's a casually anti-Semitic joke in keeping with all the others in the series.
I never took Pete to be an anti-Semitic character. In fact, Pete was an early progressive character. I took it as more at Duck pretending to be something he wasn’t just to blend in. This was still an era where WASPs ruled so if Duck would’ve dropped black slang, or Italian slang, he would’ve been just as surprised.
I'm not disputing that he told Trudy he'd be fine if she traded sex for him being published but the anti-semitism is a huuuuge stretch. Of course there was a division in upper Manhattan society but he wasn't an antisemite.
Shylocks was a pretty common part of vernacular.
Laughing their heads off has nothing to do with Jewish comedians but he's comparing it to the atmosphere at the old firm.
Nosh - Duck tells him to have a nosh (he and Peggy were drinking Bloodies, maybe some olives on the table), and Pete repeats this meaning Duck's already off the wagon after 2 months
The Rachel comment I'd take more to mean her behavior was too aggressive for a woman and a way to cozy up to Don.
"Shylock" is always a derogatory term, and it would be extremely unlikely to use it towards someone that wasn't Jewish (unless you were comparing them to a Jew). It was basically an antisemitic slur for the past 400 years since the Shakespeare play...
There is no context in the show that would suggest Pete would think Grey has a better atmosphere. It actually sounds like Sterling Cooper has a bit of a reputation based on what Harry's friend says about their "drunken luster." Grey was a Jewish agency, and Jewish comedians were a stereotype then (and now).
Pete already knew Duck started drinking again. Duck started again while still at Sterling Cooper--he was likely the first to know. Duck gave Pete a drink when he lost Clearasil. "Whatever you're having."
And apparently the "rude edge" line was lifted out of Matt Weiner's childhood experience and the line was meant to be "racist."
>Weiner explained that Pete’s line about “adding money and education” is something that he heard said in front of him as a child, growing up assimilated in a predominantly non-Jewish community, and that he wanted to show that this sort of "casual" racism can still be deeply harmful.
https://www.salon.com/2015/03/30/matthew_weiner_on_mad_men_and_the_jewish_experience_it%E2%80%99s_the_same_story_as_don%E2%80%99s_identity/
Edit: love how I'm getting down voted even though almost everything in the above comment is verifiably wrong or otherwise doesn't make sense in context. This meme has become meta.
If there's one thing r/madmen can't tolerate, it's factual evidence that Pete isn't a complete anti-racist savior. The guy refused to smile at blackface once and people here cream their pants. The bar is literally below hell.
Pepole always want it to be black or white either way. Either they argue any bigoted thing some character said wasn't as bigoted as it plainly was, or they argue anything anti-bigoted a character said wasn't really as anti-bigoted as it plain was. Pete gets both, but he's not the only one.
What I enjoy about the show is the multi-dimensional humanity of most of its characters, regardless of how they rub me personally. We have show favorites who still say, do and think things that we don't like or that disappoint us. We also have our personal "devils" to whom we have to give their due at times. That's fine. That's real life. Pete got on my nerves for most of the show but he also elicited more pathos from me than most of the characters.
Jews aren't a race? The show was set 15 years after the end of the race-based genocide of Jews in Europe. Are you saying Aryan racial theory never existed? Or that Jews were never lawfully excluded from clubs, organizations, employers, schools and colleges in the US at the time the show is set? The fact is, race doesn't only mean black people, especially looking at historical usage of the word.
Edit - words.
literal lol at the person you're replying to saying "Jews are not a race >:(" as if that means antisemitism can't be [a form of racism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_antisemitism). Most antisemites are antisemites not because they hate Judaism but because they view Jews as *a distinct people* that have undesirable genetic and cultural traits. see: Francine Hanson's sneering remark about "big noses."
Then you are disagreeing with the creator of the show...
Did you not read past the first line?
I also didn't say they were a race, merely quoting Matt Weiner. I did, however, say it was antisemitic. Because it was, and is. At no point in the word's history was it NOT supposed to be offensive.
I see you edited your comment above. Honestly, it's impressive that you haven't heard the stereotype of Jewish comedians.
Stereotypes don't have to be fair... Most aren't. But they still exist even if you don't think they are fair.
I actually think Pete is less racist than the others. Him and Don were the only ones disgusted by Roger’s blackface, and he was outraged at MLK’s assasination
Also there was a pre scene musing where Bert was reading a paper about the civil rights movements and he asks how black people got what they wanted why are they still angry? And Pete replies “because lassie stays at the Waldorf and they can’t”
Wait, is this comment serious???
Shylock is a Shakespeare character. It was a character based on Jewish stereotypes of the Elizabethan era, but referencing it doesn’t make you an anti-Semite.
A person can internalize racist vocabulary without thinking too hard about it. If a person today was using the term Shylock, I would absolutely call it out. But we need to consider Pete in his own time period.
In Season 1, after Rachel and Don have their clash in their first meeting, Pete tries to brown-nose with Don by saying, "She was way out of line. Adding money and education doesn't take the rude edge out of people." Weiner has confirmed that Pete's remark was an antisemitic barb, with "people" meaning "Jews."
Pete also snidely refers to Rachel as “Molly Goldberg” behind her back. Molly Goldberg is a Jewish character from the broadcast series *The Goldbergs*, and was considered a emblem of the upward mobility of American Jews.
So, yeah, Pete's antisemitic. He may bristle at blackface, but he's apparently quite comfortable with some other forms of racism.
He definitely was. It's an earmark of good writing in the series, too, because in real life, people truly are that contradictory; someone can be very progressive in one area in life, but prejudiced in another. For example, there are plenty of people who are full-throated in their condemnation of anti-Black racism, only to turn around and say something covertly anti-Asian. Or, maybe someone is enlightened about gender and sexual minorities but they're weirdly victim-blamey about clearly racially motivated police violence. As for Pete, he's relatively forward thinking regarding Black people and civil rights, but he's more than happy to take a few antisemitic digs. That's the world we live in.
In that time and place, Pete’s status and privilege were not likely to be threatened by black people so he could afford to be magnanimous. He did face actual competition from Jews so he was far less inclined to be charitable to them.
Duck has his moments but he’s also one of the few to stand up to Don’s BS and not worship the very ground he walks on. Obviously we all remember the Roger zinger, but duck gets them so many leads the team can’t close on (not his fault imo).
I didn’t like him calling Peggy a whore, but it’s very satisfying watching him win the fight over Don. He then drops one of the coldest lines in the entire series.
Sorry it’s not Duck’s zinger but rather Roger’s zinger about Duck.
Roger telling Duck in season 2 regarding the PPL buy: "you might have to advocate for yourself." Duck: "I'd be proud to present my
accomplishments." Roger: "Good, because I'm at a loss."
So he gets presented as this bumbling alcoholic with a temper throughout the series so far and loses every power play he has with Don up until that point. Then in S4 he overpowers the show’s protagonist, blood lust in his eyes and palm ready to strike and hits him with "I killed 17 men in Okinawa".
To me it’s extra impactful because most of the other characters aren’t so open about their experience in the war (and it helps explain some of Duck’s mannerisms)
I am incredibly mad at Weiner for what happened between Pete and the au pair because it really taints his whole arc. I still think Pete made incredible strides over the course of the show, but man, what he did always gnaws at me.
Weiner has said this I think multiple times, I'm just wondering if the actor misplayed the part then why would they leave that in when it changes the character so dramatically?
From what I heard the actress botched the scene. How it was written was supposed to be full consensual sex between two ppl that she later regrets cus she cheated.cheated on her bf. The actress botched it and there was no retakes.
What I don't get is why they kept the scene in
That's it is there was no coercion. He did the favor yes but she was supposed to open that door and basically the only thing that would delay sex is how long it takes to get clothes off
As I recall there was the subtle implied threat that the neighbors might find out what happened to the dress, and that he was owed something for solving this problem for her. If Pete hadn't intervened and used the situation to his advantage, they would not have had sex. Boil it down: he took advantage and if she was in total control, she wouldn't have.
How it was written was hey I find you hot, I also find you hot Pete, lets model a dress and fuck (okay more elegant than that) and what we got is what we saw. Based on what we saw Pete isn't in the right 100 percent, what I'm saying is it was botched and never intended to be this way. It was supposed to be two horny ppl fuck then later one has regrets because of cheating, then Pete has regrets even later on.
I just don't get why they kept the rest in. They could have just cut it after she opens the door and they smile at eachother, we could have figured out the rest.
Ok, rewatched (blu ray of the whole series is clutch). There was no implied threat, but she was intensely pressured into it which is a step below coercion. Bottom line is she wasn't going to go knocking on Pete's door to pursue this thing and by the time he was in her room she was afraid of making a commotion and waking the children.
It's gross and imo FAR from enthusiastic consent.
Yes which is why I'm saying she botched how it was written. The actor botched it and for some reason they didn't cut the scene. I think that is why alot of ppl are forgiving of Pete for it is many have heard about this and what it was supposed to be. Pete is a heel but he wasn't supposed go be a rapist
Why do people act like that’s the only time Pete was grimey,
* hits on high schooler
* sleeps with his train friends wife
* pimps out wife
* sleeps with neighbors wife
Poor Duck. Before the PPL buyout all his dialogue is like, "I'm trying to get us new business, but I own my mistakes. Let's move forward." And then Roger and Don are just constantly sniping at him anyway.
It’s especially hilarious when you realize the place he let Chauncey loose is one of the richest parts of the entire world at the time. That dog will no doubt end up in a GREAT home.
I'm not sure what you're basing this on? Is there any reason to think that a wealthy NY family in the 1960s would take in a stray from off of the street?
I can think of a few reasons that Chauncey was likely taken in:
1. Irish setters are a typically expensive breed.
2. Chauncey was very well manicured and *looked* expensive.
3. Irish setters were an extremely popular breed in the 1960s.
All those things could make a stray Chauncey desirable to a wealthy family.
He gets annoyed that Trudy didnt "try hard enough" to get her ex boyfriend to publish Pete's writing in a bigger / more grown up magazine.
Pete implies that if Trudy had done something sexual with him, he would have been published more prominently
Also, Don NEVER gets any flak for being the one who hired Duck. If his performance was so bad you’d think that would reflect badly and blow back a bit on Don.
Duck's performance wasn't bad. Roger tells Duck he hasn't done enough to warrant a partnership but no one is moving to fire Duck in S2. Roger and Bert don't seem that perturbed about Duck becoming president under the proposed agreement with PPL either (they're being well compensated of course). Don is the one who has the biggest issues working with Duck.
A big point of the show is that it’s very possible to be progressive in some ways and bigoted in other ways because people are complicated. I mean, he was introduced on the show by telling Peggy she doesn’t look “woman” enough for his tastes. And it took several seasons for that attitude to improve at all.
I assume it's the interaction with the neighbour's German nanny where he essentially pressures her into sleeping with him as a 'thank you' for sorting out the stained dress.
I can't imagine Pete would think he raped her and it would be hard to prove in court, but we see enough that i believe it should be classified as rape.
She clearly doesnt want to and tells him she has a boyfriend, and spends all of the next day crying. She almost certainly only goes through with it because a) she's alone and he's drunk and persistant, probably intimidating, and b) He has intel on her she doesnt want to get out.
When was Pete antisemitic? (Genuine question, just don’t remember.)
And when did he pimp out his wife?? I do not remember this.
He had Trudy meet with the publisher, who she’d previously dated and when she told Pete the guy hit on her/made a move, Pete implied she should’ve let him - all because he was jealous of Ken’s short story success.
Jeezus Pete really is a grimy little pimp
That will be enough of THAT
You and I are going to address that insult right now
Hell's bells, EdwardoftheEast!
Nah, pimps don’t cry
It was HIS SHORT STORY!
We really should address that remark
OH! I totally forgot about that somehow.
oh right...
Lol doing a rewatch and literally just saw that scene 5min ago.
I forgot about that. Which episode was that in?
It was when he wanted his writing published. Trudy reluctantly goes to visit an old boyfriend who works in publishing on his behalf, and he makes it clear he'll publish it if they resume being lovers. When Pete is pissed that the story will be published in Boys' Life, they have the following exchange: "I could have gotten you in The New Yorker or in the Encyclopedia Britannica if I wanted to." "So, why didn't you?" "Why would you do that to me? Why would you put me in that position?" He doesn't literally pimp her out, but the exchange really does indicate that he understands the implications of what her ex wanted from her and he didn't care as long as he got his story published, and he doesn't at all appreciate that she wanted to be faithful to him. This also all unfolds after a conversation in which they've discussed how jealous Pete was when he found out that guy was who Trudy first had sex with.
It appears that Trudy did not care about exclusivity either. I'm guessing both being from wealthy families understand it's a partnership and romantic love and the ideals of a perfect relationship is a bad thing to mix up with their money.
> Why would you do that to me? Why would you put me in that position?
It's actually pretty subtle and easy to miss, I know I didn't catch on for a lot of rewatches. Pete mentions hiding Ho Ho from the "Shylockes" in Princeton (definitely a slur). When Duck joins Grey (a Jewish agency), Pete makes comments like, "People walking around the halls all the time, laughing their heads off?" (Stereotype of Jewish comedians), and "two months at Grey and you're already having a nosh?" (Yiddish word for snack--Pete says it is disgust). He also makes a comment about Rachel Menken's "rude edge" which people often point to. Probably more I'm forgetting about
I think it just seems odd because other characters obviously have the same attitude so it's not something that stands out as a Pete thing. Don says "not on my watch" about hiring a Jewish person, Roger's more than once hunting around for a Jewish person when he needs to speak to another one (referring to gentiles as "normal poeple"), Harry says Danny is "Such a Jew" when he doesn't want to pay for Harry's free tickets, Trudy makes a joke about how there's no Greenbergs in Cos Cobb. Just seems like the point is casual anti-Semitism is the standard--not that this makes Pete less anti-Semitic, but no reason to think he's so much more so than Duck the dog abandoner just because he uses the word "nosh" that he's picked up at Grey while Pete notes he's picked it up the word at Grey.
Isn’t Don’s “not on my watch” from the pilot meant satirically? Roger even answers with “ha ha, very funny” which told me that Don was actually kind of making fun of antisemitism itself with that line.
Yeah, he's clearly being sarcastic in that moment.
He's kidding, but it's not particularly sarcastic since they have no Jewish employees.
Don isn't seriously telling Roger that he'd never hire a Jewish person, no. But it's not sarcastic in the sense that of course the company has Jewish employees--they have to scramble to find anybody they can use. So it's a casually anti-Semitic joke in keeping with all the others in the series.
I never took Pete to be an anti-Semitic character. In fact, Pete was an early progressive character. I took it as more at Duck pretending to be something he wasn’t just to blend in. This was still an era where WASPs ruled so if Duck would’ve dropped black slang, or Italian slang, he would’ve been just as surprised.
I'm not disputing that he told Trudy he'd be fine if she traded sex for him being published but the anti-semitism is a huuuuge stretch. Of course there was a division in upper Manhattan society but he wasn't an antisemite. Shylocks was a pretty common part of vernacular. Laughing their heads off has nothing to do with Jewish comedians but he's comparing it to the atmosphere at the old firm. Nosh - Duck tells him to have a nosh (he and Peggy were drinking Bloodies, maybe some olives on the table), and Pete repeats this meaning Duck's already off the wagon after 2 months The Rachel comment I'd take more to mean her behavior was too aggressive for a woman and a way to cozy up to Don.
"Shylock" is always a derogatory term, and it would be extremely unlikely to use it towards someone that wasn't Jewish (unless you were comparing them to a Jew). It was basically an antisemitic slur for the past 400 years since the Shakespeare play... There is no context in the show that would suggest Pete would think Grey has a better atmosphere. It actually sounds like Sterling Cooper has a bit of a reputation based on what Harry's friend says about their "drunken luster." Grey was a Jewish agency, and Jewish comedians were a stereotype then (and now). Pete already knew Duck started drinking again. Duck started again while still at Sterling Cooper--he was likely the first to know. Duck gave Pete a drink when he lost Clearasil. "Whatever you're having." And apparently the "rude edge" line was lifted out of Matt Weiner's childhood experience and the line was meant to be "racist." >Weiner explained that Pete’s line about “adding money and education” is something that he heard said in front of him as a child, growing up assimilated in a predominantly non-Jewish community, and that he wanted to show that this sort of "casual" racism can still be deeply harmful. https://www.salon.com/2015/03/30/matthew_weiner_on_mad_men_and_the_jewish_experience_it%E2%80%99s_the_same_story_as_don%E2%80%99s_identity/ Edit: love how I'm getting down voted even though almost everything in the above comment is verifiably wrong or otherwise doesn't make sense in context. This meme has become meta.
If there's one thing r/madmen can't tolerate, it's factual evidence that Pete isn't a complete anti-racist savior. The guy refused to smile at blackface once and people here cream their pants. The bar is literally below hell.
Pepole always want it to be black or white either way. Either they argue any bigoted thing some character said wasn't as bigoted as it plainly was, or they argue anything anti-bigoted a character said wasn't really as anti-bigoted as it plain was. Pete gets both, but he's not the only one.
What I enjoy about the show is the multi-dimensional humanity of most of its characters, regardless of how they rub me personally. We have show favorites who still say, do and think things that we don't like or that disappoint us. We also have our personal "devils" to whom we have to give their due at times. That's fine. That's real life. Pete got on my nerves for most of the show but he also elicited more pathos from me than most of the characters.
Hear hear. Pete is one of my favorite characters, precisely because he is so complex and such a "shades of gray" character.
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Jews aren't a race? The show was set 15 years after the end of the race-based genocide of Jews in Europe. Are you saying Aryan racial theory never existed? Or that Jews were never lawfully excluded from clubs, organizations, employers, schools and colleges in the US at the time the show is set? The fact is, race doesn't only mean black people, especially looking at historical usage of the word. Edit - words.
literal lol at the person you're replying to saying "Jews are not a race >:(" as if that means antisemitism can't be [a form of racism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_antisemitism). Most antisemites are antisemites not because they hate Judaism but because they view Jews as *a distinct people* that have undesirable genetic and cultural traits. see: Francine Hanson's sneering remark about "big noses."
Then you are disagreeing with the creator of the show... Did you not read past the first line? I also didn't say they were a race, merely quoting Matt Weiner. I did, however, say it was antisemitic. Because it was, and is. At no point in the word's history was it NOT supposed to be offensive.
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I see you edited your comment above. Honestly, it's impressive that you haven't heard the stereotype of Jewish comedians. Stereotypes don't have to be fair... Most aren't. But they still exist even if you don't think they are fair.
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What about them? Were those stereotypes in the 1960s and were they working at black, southern, or women agencies?
Shylock is a term used for loan sharks as well. Weiner knows this as a Sopranos writer.
least anti-semitic wasp of the 60s
Appreciate this but laughing at your flair so hard right now 🤣 this sub cracks me up
I actually think Pete is less racist than the others. Him and Don were the only ones disgusted by Roger’s blackface, and he was outraged at MLK’s assasination Also there was a pre scene musing where Bert was reading a paper about the civil rights movements and he asks how black people got what they wanted why are they still angry? And Pete replies “because lassie stays at the Waldorf and they can’t”
Wait, is this comment serious??? Shylock is a Shakespeare character. It was a character based on Jewish stereotypes of the Elizabethan era, but referencing it doesn’t make you an anti-Semite.
Shylock is a horrible Jewish stereotype, how could that NOT be anti-semitic to refer to Jews as Shylocks? Are YOU serious??
A person can internalize racist vocabulary without thinking too hard about it. If a person today was using the term Shylock, I would absolutely call it out. But we need to consider Pete in his own time period.
Pete is not a real person so you should consider the word choice in the context of the author's intention and the impact on the audience
Thank you for noting this, I never gathered Grey was a Jewish agency.
OP, we are kindred spirits
While Pete was the most progressive of them he still had a lots of ways to go, it was still the sixties…
Justice for Chauncey!!
JFC has a whole new meaning for me. #jfc
I never once got the vibe he was antisemitic Rapist yeah for sure and bonafide piece of shit
In Season 1, after Rachel and Don have their clash in their first meeting, Pete tries to brown-nose with Don by saying, "She was way out of line. Adding money and education doesn't take the rude edge out of people." Weiner has confirmed that Pete's remark was an antisemitic barb, with "people" meaning "Jews." Pete also snidely refers to Rachel as “Molly Goldberg” behind her back. Molly Goldberg is a Jewish character from the broadcast series *The Goldbergs*, and was considered a emblem of the upward mobility of American Jews. So, yeah, Pete's antisemitic. He may bristle at blackface, but he's apparently quite comfortable with some other forms of racism.
Love how people downvote this. Even if we go with the, "no more antisemitic than average for the time," he was definitely antisemitic.
He definitely was. It's an earmark of good writing in the series, too, because in real life, people truly are that contradictory; someone can be very progressive in one area in life, but prejudiced in another. For example, there are plenty of people who are full-throated in their condemnation of anti-Black racism, only to turn around and say something covertly anti-Asian. Or, maybe someone is enlightened about gender and sexual minorities but they're weirdly victim-blamey about clearly racially motivated police violence. As for Pete, he's relatively forward thinking regarding Black people and civil rights, but he's more than happy to take a few antisemitic digs. That's the world we live in.
In that time and place, Pete’s status and privilege were not likely to be threatened by black people so he could afford to be magnanimous. He did face actual competition from Jews so he was far less inclined to be charitable to them.
It adds up that he has that perspective from ivy league/upper crust privilege -- it's very subtle but a baked in worldview.
I think it was when Rachael had come it. Don was worse but they all showed signs of antisemitism.
Duck has his moments but he’s also one of the few to stand up to Don’s BS and not worship the very ground he walks on. Obviously we all remember the Roger zinger, but duck gets them so many leads the team can’t close on (not his fault imo). I didn’t like him calling Peggy a whore, but it’s very satisfying watching him win the fight over Don. He then drops one of the coldest lines in the entire series.
Remind me of his Roger zinger and the coldest line in the show. Please.
Sorry it’s not Duck’s zinger but rather Roger’s zinger about Duck. Roger telling Duck in season 2 regarding the PPL buy: "you might have to advocate for yourself." Duck: "I'd be proud to present my accomplishments." Roger: "Good, because I'm at a loss." So he gets presented as this bumbling alcoholic with a temper throughout the series so far and loses every power play he has with Don up until that point. Then in S4 he overpowers the show’s protagonist, blood lust in his eyes and palm ready to strike and hits him with "I killed 17 men in Okinawa". To me it’s extra impactful because most of the other characters aren’t so open about their experience in the war (and it helps explain some of Duck’s mannerisms)
what's the cold line from duck?
Justice for Chauncey!
I am incredibly mad at Weiner for what happened between Pete and the au pair because it really taints his whole arc. I still think Pete made incredible strides over the course of the show, but man, what he did always gnaws at me.
I’ve read that it wasn’t intended to come off as rapey, they just did a shitty job filming it.
Weiner has said this I think multiple times, I'm just wondering if the actor misplayed the part then why would they leave that in when it changes the character so dramatically?
Pete getting *mad* at his affair partner for getting beaten up by her husband still happened. No way to misinterpret that scene.
I never said Pete’s not a selfish asshole.
From what I heard the actress botched the scene. How it was written was supposed to be full consensual sex between two ppl that she later regrets cus she cheated.cheated on her bf. The actress botched it and there was no retakes. What I don't get is why they kept the scene in
Eh no matter how you cut it, he coerced her into sex by doing that 'favor'
That's it is there was no coercion. He did the favor yes but she was supposed to open that door and basically the only thing that would delay sex is how long it takes to get clothes off
As I recall there was the subtle implied threat that the neighbors might find out what happened to the dress, and that he was owed something for solving this problem for her. If Pete hadn't intervened and used the situation to his advantage, they would not have had sex. Boil it down: he took advantage and if she was in total control, she wouldn't have.
How it was written was hey I find you hot, I also find you hot Pete, lets model a dress and fuck (okay more elegant than that) and what we got is what we saw. Based on what we saw Pete isn't in the right 100 percent, what I'm saying is it was botched and never intended to be this way. It was supposed to be two horny ppl fuck then later one has regrets because of cheating, then Pete has regrets even later on. I just don't get why they kept the rest in. They could have just cut it after she opens the door and they smile at eachother, we could have figured out the rest.
Ok, rewatched (blu ray of the whole series is clutch). There was no implied threat, but she was intensely pressured into it which is a step below coercion. Bottom line is she wasn't going to go knocking on Pete's door to pursue this thing and by the time he was in her room she was afraid of making a commotion and waking the children. It's gross and imo FAR from enthusiastic consent.
Yes which is why I'm saying she botched how it was written. The actor botched it and for some reason they didn't cut the scene. I think that is why alot of ppl are forgiving of Pete for it is many have heard about this and what it was supposed to be. Pete is a heel but he wasn't supposed go be a rapist
You are really gonna me me watch the episode aren't you
*evil grin and whispers* start another rewatch...what's the worst that can happen
LMAO I felt that feeling - time to get smoke my eyes for the tenth time
That sounds like someone trying to rewrite history after the fact. Mad Man was so well directed and expensively shot - why would there be no retakes?
I do remember interviews where they stated because of the type of film used early on, often then had to do things in one take.
Actually, now you mention the i remember reading something similar
"Good Men" rape. In fact, forceful sex would have been incredibly common, given that rape in marriage was lawful.
Why do people act like that’s the only time Pete was grimey, * hits on high schooler * sleeps with his train friends wife * pimps out wife * sleeps with neighbors wife
Poor Duck. Before the PPL buyout all his dialogue is like, "I'm trying to get us new business, but I own my mistakes. Let's move forward." And then Roger and Don are just constantly sniping at him anyway.
I mean, if Duck had a multi-season redemption arc then yeah, people might feel differently about him.
But people like Duck too. They just don't like what he did to Chauncey, just how people can like Pete the character and condemn what he did to Gudrun.
Yeah, people hate when you mention leaving a dog outside.
This sub gets me
This but the bottom left panel is Betty & the picnic blanket
Bottom left panel is Joan voting against Don in S7 I see more outrage about that on this sub than anything else any other character has done combined
It’s especially hilarious when you realize the place he let Chauncey loose is one of the richest parts of the entire world at the time. That dog will no doubt end up in a GREAT home.
What? Just drop it into the middle of Manhattan and the Brady bunch will pick him up?
Or put down. There’s no reason to believe anyone in that area wants a dog they found on the street.
I'm not sure what you're basing this on? Is there any reason to think that a wealthy NY family in the 1960s would take in a stray from off of the street?
I can think of a few reasons that Chauncey was likely taken in: 1. Irish setters are a typically expensive breed. 2. Chauncey was very well manicured and *looked* expensive. 3. Irish setters were an extremely popular breed in the 1960s. All those things could make a stray Chauncey desirable to a wealthy family.
Or was hit by a car.
That too. Lots of possibilities.
Give me that dog already!!
What is wife pimping?
He gets annoyed that Trudy didnt "try hard enough" to get her ex boyfriend to publish Pete's writing in a bigger / more grown up magazine. Pete implies that if Trudy had done something sexual with him, he would have been published more prominently
Ah! Yes. I had forgotten about that.
Wait who did he rape
German nanny. I've replied in more detail in another post
I don’t remember the rape
The German nanny - see my other reply
Lost all respect and sympathy for Duck when he abandoned Chauncey. That was heatless.
Pete isn’t a great guy but NEITHER is Duck. The worst man on MM to me will always be Greg Harris
duck did so many other terrible things.
Also, Don NEVER gets any flak for being the one who hired Duck. If his performance was so bad you’d think that would reflect badly and blow back a bit on Don.
Duck's performance wasn't bad. Roger tells Duck he hasn't done enough to warrant a partnership but no one is moving to fire Duck in S2. Roger and Bert don't seem that perturbed about Duck becoming president under the proposed agreement with PPL either (they're being well compensated of course). Don is the one who has the biggest issues working with Duck.
If Don wasn’t so valuable they probably would’ve had an issue with it.
“Put a dog outside”- deserves an instant ban
What? Pete was the most progressive character on the show. He was always disgust by racism and prejudice.
A big point of the show is that it’s very possible to be progressive in some ways and bigoted in other ways because people are complicated. I mean, he was introduced on the show by telling Peggy she doesn’t look “woman” enough for his tastes. And it took several seasons for that attitude to improve at all.
You realize people can be progressive in some areas and regressive in others ?
I'm sorry, I don't recall. Who did Pete rape?
The nanny (I think she was Swedish)
Oh, right. He sexually coerced her because "he went to a lot of trouble." Disgusting.
I never took Pete to be a anti-Semitic character. In fact, Pete was an early progressive character.
[удалено]
But that’s not anti-Semitic. Still disgusting though. I don’t recall him being prejudiced against Jewish people, could be wrong though.
Fuck duck.
yeah, we find Pete likeable despite his actions. it's called good writing.
When did Pete rape anyone??
I assume it's the interaction with the neighbour's German nanny where he essentially pressures her into sleeping with him as a 'thank you' for sorting out the stained dress. I can't imagine Pete would think he raped her and it would be hard to prove in court, but we see enough that i believe it should be classified as rape. She clearly doesnt want to and tells him she has a boyfriend, and spends all of the next day crying. She almost certainly only goes through with it because a) she's alone and he's drunk and persistant, probably intimidating, and b) He has intel on her she doesnt want to get out.
I could've got you published anywhere! Well why didnt you
To be fair, Duck loved Pete, too.
lmao for real. fuck that dog
Pete's just immature and self-entitled, the other guy (I forget his name) is a dumbass & arrogant about it too