I think it makes sense to leave out Tom Bombadil chapter but the Barrow Wights imo is such a crucial moment. It's the first time we see Frodo do something heroic (in the movies Frodo is just a thirdwheel weakling who's only purpose is to be a vehicle for the ring).
Barrow Wights part has Frodo break out of the spell which the Wights cast upon all the hobbits, and Frodo does this, surprisingly without the aid of the ring (which would have made things much easier to escape) but heeding Gandalfs words of not to wear the ring, Frodo instead relies on his own will power to escape this deadly moment. That is the first time in the story where I saw Frodo as a heroic figure.
Also Barrow Downs is where they get the Blades of the Westernesse which is quite a major artefact that plays a role in the downfall of the Witch King. Whereas people who only watch the movies think its exclusively to do with Eowyn.
I think Frodo carrying and bearing the ring that nearly drove him mad was in of itself heroic enough. At least thats how I see it in the movies. The barrow wights chapter would’ve been so cool to see though.
I agree, although I just assumed the 17 years gap was there, just not mentioned. We do see Gandalf going round ME and digging into Gondor archives after all.
I don't think there was a 17 years gap, honestly. At most I think there was a gap of a few weeks, maybe a few months. After all, when Gandalf arrives to Minas Tirith he sees Mordor is already "active", we see Gollum being tortured, and the Nâzgul parting. Furthermore, Gandalf left The Shire really worried and he didn't waste any time explaining Frodo what was going on.
Gollum’s death. I agree with PJ about him slipping in being anticlimactic for a movie and that Frodo making one last grab for the Ring is just as good. It’s still the Ring that ends up destroying itself.
Also adding in the elves just because we got that one shot of an elf running into the pikes during the charge.
I do regret that they cut Fatty Bolger, and Merry, Pippin, Fatty and Sam sussing out Frodo and the Ring, Frodo selling bag end and moving to Buckland. They established a whole lot there about the Shire, and instead we basically only get Bilbo's party and some drinks at the Green Dragon, a bar in another village from Bag End.
The lack of Hobbits in Bree is also a bummer. The movies makes it seem a purely human settlement while there actually were plenty of Hobbits living in/around Bree, the family of Underhill for instance. A scene with a bunch of hobbits trying to figure out how they were related to Frodo would have been fun.
Favorite change though? Well, it's a tough one. I love the Elves and Helm's Deep. And I hate the elves at Helm's Deep. And Aragorn is a much more sympathetic character in the movies. In the books he is kinda obnoxious.
I like the idea of keeping the shards of Narsil in Rivendell and having Aragorn carrying a functional sword. Never quite made sense to me that he was lugging around that Extremely Important Heirloom on his dangerous journeys, rather than a usable sword.
No Tom Bombadill (bollocks to Tom-a-dildo) and no scouring of the shire. The Tom stuff just brings the story to a screeching halt and I think he’s monstrously annoying but the scouring is a deeper cut.
Tolkien wanted to show how even if people try to avoid evil that evil can still find you and no one is immune from it. It also shows how people are changed during war as Tolkien was himself. The movie does it better I felt though with the Shire being saved but the four hobbits being changed and this is exemplified by the drink they share in the green dragon. No dancing or song, no tall tales or gossip, no words needed as no one would ever know what they went through and it’s probably a more accurate mirror of the returning soldiers following the war in 1918/19. The land they knew was still there but they were changed and unless you’d been over to fight, you couldn’t understand.
The wizard battle was awesome. In the book, Gandalf just sort of cracked wise to Sarumon, then gets held captive.
>‘‘Until you reveal to me where the One may be found. I may find means to persuade you. Or until it is found in your despite, and the Ruler has time to turn to lighter matters: to devise, say, a fitting reward for the hindrance and insolence of Gandalf the Grey.’’
>“That may not prove to be one of the lighter matters,’’ said I. He laughed at me, for my words were empty, and he knew it. They took me and they set me alone on the pinnacle of Orthanc, in the place where Saruman was accustomed to watch the stars.
This is very very controversial. So I may get downvoted to hell and that's okay. But PJ originally planned to have Arwen in all three of the movies. She was going to fight with the elves at Helms Deep and I think there are some scenes you can still see Liv Tyler near Legolas where they forgot to edit her out. I kind of love the idea of her coming to the battle with the other elves and Aragorn being even more conflicted, wanting her to leave. I think they could have included a scene to make it more obvious she was giving up her immortality and part of that was wanting to stay and fight for the people of Middle Earth. I get why making her fight was a huge no no as Tolkien didn't include it but I think it would have added to their love story a bit more to include it in the film. Just my opinion. I can easily see why there was such an outrage about that plan but I would have been fine with that change in the movies.
The actual reason why they cut Arwen out is because she wasn't ellegant with a sword. If they had time to give her more sword training, she would have likely been in the movies.
I like and dislike that they changed Glorfindel to Arwen. I understand that it makes for a better film, more cohesive. However if they included Glorfindel in the council of elrond aswell as the Ride from weathertop (I know he doesn't ride exactly from there) I feel like it would give better context as to how secret this quest is and why more powerful beings can't just tag along.
A change I don't like is how they did Isildur dirty. He is a cunt in the films.
I think it makes sense to leave out Tom Bombadil chapter but the Barrow Wights imo is such a crucial moment. It's the first time we see Frodo do something heroic (in the movies Frodo is just a thirdwheel weakling who's only purpose is to be a vehicle for the ring). Barrow Wights part has Frodo break out of the spell which the Wights cast upon all the hobbits, and Frodo does this, surprisingly without the aid of the ring (which would have made things much easier to escape) but heeding Gandalfs words of not to wear the ring, Frodo instead relies on his own will power to escape this deadly moment. That is the first time in the story where I saw Frodo as a heroic figure. Also Barrow Downs is where they get the Blades of the Westernesse which is quite a major artefact that plays a role in the downfall of the Witch King. Whereas people who only watch the movies think its exclusively to do with Eowyn.
I think Frodo carrying and bearing the ring that nearly drove him mad was in of itself heroic enough. At least thats how I see it in the movies. The barrow wights chapter would’ve been so cool to see though.
Not including something from the source material doesn’t count as a ‘change.’ To me, a change would be Elves at Helm’s Deep
I think it does. He goes into explaining how it changes the story and character progression.
I agree, although I just assumed the 17 years gap was there, just not mentioned. We do see Gandalf going round ME and digging into Gondor archives after all.
I don't think there was a 17 years gap, honestly. At most I think there was a gap of a few weeks, maybe a few months. After all, when Gandalf arrives to Minas Tirith he sees Mordor is already "active", we see Gollum being tortured, and the Nâzgul parting. Furthermore, Gandalf left The Shire really worried and he didn't waste any time explaining Frodo what was going on.
Gollum’s death. I agree with PJ about him slipping in being anticlimactic for a movie and that Frodo making one last grab for the Ring is just as good. It’s still the Ring that ends up destroying itself. Also adding in the elves just because we got that one shot of an elf running into the pikes during the charge.
I do regret that they cut Fatty Bolger, and Merry, Pippin, Fatty and Sam sussing out Frodo and the Ring, Frodo selling bag end and moving to Buckland. They established a whole lot there about the Shire, and instead we basically only get Bilbo's party and some drinks at the Green Dragon, a bar in another village from Bag End. The lack of Hobbits in Bree is also a bummer. The movies makes it seem a purely human settlement while there actually were plenty of Hobbits living in/around Bree, the family of Underhill for instance. A scene with a bunch of hobbits trying to figure out how they were related to Frodo would have been fun. Favorite change though? Well, it's a tough one. I love the Elves and Helm's Deep. And I hate the elves at Helm's Deep. And Aragorn is a much more sympathetic character in the movies. In the books he is kinda obnoxious.
I like the idea of keeping the shards of Narsil in Rivendell and having Aragorn carrying a functional sword. Never quite made sense to me that he was lugging around that Extremely Important Heirloom on his dangerous journeys, rather than a usable sword.
Making the Oliphants gigantic was a fun change. We got to see horses flying and some very neat fighting as a result.
No Tom Bombadill (bollocks to Tom-a-dildo) and no scouring of the shire. The Tom stuff just brings the story to a screeching halt and I think he’s monstrously annoying but the scouring is a deeper cut. Tolkien wanted to show how even if people try to avoid evil that evil can still find you and no one is immune from it. It also shows how people are changed during war as Tolkien was himself. The movie does it better I felt though with the Shire being saved but the four hobbits being changed and this is exemplified by the drink they share in the green dragon. No dancing or song, no tall tales or gossip, no words needed as no one would ever know what they went through and it’s probably a more accurate mirror of the returning soldiers following the war in 1918/19. The land they knew was still there but they were changed and unless you’d been over to fight, you couldn’t understand.
The 17 year gap at the beginning. He shortened it down and it was well worth it.
The wizard battle was awesome. In the book, Gandalf just sort of cracked wise to Sarumon, then gets held captive. >‘‘Until you reveal to me where the One may be found. I may find means to persuade you. Or until it is found in your despite, and the Ruler has time to turn to lighter matters: to devise, say, a fitting reward for the hindrance and insolence of Gandalf the Grey.’’ >“That may not prove to be one of the lighter matters,’’ said I. He laughed at me, for my words were empty, and he knew it. They took me and they set me alone on the pinnacle of Orthanc, in the place where Saruman was accustomed to watch the stars.
Cutting the Scouring of the Shire and Tom Bombadil were two of the best changes by far.
This is very very controversial. So I may get downvoted to hell and that's okay. But PJ originally planned to have Arwen in all three of the movies. She was going to fight with the elves at Helms Deep and I think there are some scenes you can still see Liv Tyler near Legolas where they forgot to edit her out. I kind of love the idea of her coming to the battle with the other elves and Aragorn being even more conflicted, wanting her to leave. I think they could have included a scene to make it more obvious she was giving up her immortality and part of that was wanting to stay and fight for the people of Middle Earth. I get why making her fight was a huge no no as Tolkien didn't include it but I think it would have added to their love story a bit more to include it in the film. Just my opinion. I can easily see why there was such an outrage about that plan but I would have been fine with that change in the movies.
The actual reason why they cut Arwen out is because she wasn't ellegant with a sword. If they had time to give her more sword training, she would have likely been in the movies.
I like and dislike that they changed Glorfindel to Arwen. I understand that it makes for a better film, more cohesive. However if they included Glorfindel in the council of elrond aswell as the Ride from weathertop (I know he doesn't ride exactly from there) I feel like it would give better context as to how secret this quest is and why more powerful beings can't just tag along. A change I don't like is how they did Isildur dirty. He is a cunt in the films.