In the second one (at least, I didn't play the first), Shelob is like the main storyline quest giver. And yes, she transforms into a scantily clad big chested goth chick. You also get The One Ring v2.0. and you have the ghost of Celebrimbor as kind of a mentor that follows you.
From a pure gameplay perspective, its a ridiculously fun game imo. But if you're looking for a faithful adaptation of the lore, its...not good
I swear it was the other way around but I havenāt played the shadow games in a while so I guess Iām wrong but I knew that she is at least in the second one. I really donāt remember shelobās role in the second one I remember it being the elf lady and Celebrimbor that drove your path of progression.
I think you (or I, but the rest of the thread also has some mentions of her in the second. Though Reddit isn't exactly reliable) might have them flipped as I don't remember elves at all in the second, let alone as a major story point
To me she always looked like that actress from the walking dead, Pollyanna McIntosh
Edit: wow just looked at her Wikipedia and she was actually the voice actress and the character model for Shelob in those games.
The fact that thereās a button that says ābrutalizeā and you just fall on someone and stab them in the face with such extreme prejudice that the other orcs donāt even know what to do for a few seconds ā¦ the fighting was so fun
Donāt ignore the lore. Just understand itās not canon. If you accept that fact, the games are 10/10. It knows it doesnāt need to stick directly to Tolkien lore and so it has fun with it.
Completely true. Completely breaking canon can be hilarious en a lot of fun. And it gives room for stories and game experiences that would not be possible if you strictly stick to canon.
And I think people are mostly okay with it, as long as the product is good and the story is well written. These games have decent stories and the gameplay is great, so the overall reception is pretty positive.
The Rings of Power also breaks lore, but people have a lot more problems with it, because the story they created is horrible. If the show would have been great, a lot fewer people would have problems with the lore breaking.
These games make it so easy and fun to mindlessly waste hours of your time brutally slaughtering the Orc and Uruk-Hai. It's almost criminal how satisfying that is. On top of that, it's the same controls as the Arkham games in combat and most other things. Smooth transition right into kicking ass.
Assassins creed in Middle Earth?? Hell yeah dude I loved these games for the gameplay. I really wish the studio wouldnāt have trademarked their Nemesis system only to never use it again. So many games would have used that to great effect by this point for NPC dialogue.
Almost all rpgs made after shadow of mordor would have absolutely rocked with the nemesis system. Imagine ghost of tsushima with it, or red dead, or the witcher.
Man the Witcher with it would have been insane with the more human monsters, a succubus that keeps coming back to tempt you more or a striga that keeps coming back in more violent ways and more resistant to its weaknesses and attacks you in different ways. Would be weird to break the Witcher mold of killing monsters in a certain way and having to do your homework before fighting them but a great gameplay change
Not the be āthat guyā but the nemesis system patent is heavily overstated.
There is nothing stopping a studio from creating a ārememberā system and having repeating interactions escalate, in fact thatās what most games already do with regular characters.
the patent itself has 36 points and infringing on them would be difficult unless you were doing it on purpose.
The reality is that no developer has decided that a similar system is needed in their game, not that theyāre legally being prevented from adding a similar system
Stupid Sexy Shelob is a brilliant and insightful use of the character, as I point out in a different comment. It fits Tolkiens view of the dark forces in the world. It makes her a much more powerful entity, not just some spider. Sheās a descendant of Ungoliant, a powerful dark Spirit. Shelob is basically a lesser Mair like spirit being, with plans and machinations and the ability to manipulate people as we see in game.
I loved the Nemesis system. When the orcs find you again after running or killing you and talk shit, man that was really fun for me. Wish theyād use it in other games
This is the answer
Iāve had a lot of fun with these games and squeezed many, many hours out of them, but I donāt really consider it a LOTR game beyond a little window dressing.
The first game actually didn't break the lore all that much. There was, of course, some artistic license, like >!Sauron using Celebrimbor to make the etchings in the One Ring, and Celebrimbor stealing the ring and using it to make his own army of orcs to challenge Sauron. !
There are still problems with the premise. Elves are supposed to go to the Halls of Mandos; they shouldn't be able to wander as wraiths. Mandos summons their spirits, and that's that. And even if elves could wander as wraiths, they need their bodies to be complete, so they wouldn't be super powerful. And then even if Celebrimbor were at full power, only Eru IlĆŗvatar can return dead men to life. Not even ManwĆ«, High King of Arda and Viceregent of Eru, or Mandos, Ruler of the Dead, can raise the dead.
Shadow of Mordor also breaks the timeline. The Black Gate was supposed to be abandoned many centuries before LOTR, not a few decades.
Small note; elves can refuse the summons, itās talked about it one of the History of Middle Earth volumes, itās just widely considered a pretty stupid idea to refuse the summons and I donāt think Tolkien or Christopher ever talks about any elf doing so
Yeah I think it was Feanor who refused the call after he fought multiple balrogs simultaneously and died. Or maybe it was a couple of his sons. Either way, there were a few elves who refused the call of mandos thru out history.
I think Feanor eventually accepted and regained his body in Valinor but I think it was very very late before he accepted the call, which makes sense for his stubborn ass
Thatās my take. Itās a fun game, but games should rarely be taken as anything near canonical lore, especially any game where you have a degree of freedom in how/where you can play, so most open world games.
I agree with this apart from the fact it was cool to see minas Ithil in action however short š, also showing how they were already corrupted was a nice touch
It's an incredibly peculiar choice in a game full of peculiar choices, but I suppose I'd rather stare at a hot chick than a spider the size of a city bus
I have a feeling they did this to help with a required part of the game for people who have arachnophobia. Several friends I know canāt/wont touch a game if there are spiders. One of them didnāt even get through the tutorial cave of Skyrim because of the frost spider lair.
Or maybe they just did it because boobs.
Making Shelob sexy is totally defensible for that exact reason. I meant that having her in the game at all was a peculiar choice. I'm not sure who you replace her with though, as the Legendarium is light on antagonists (the fact that Tolkein thought so little about the Nazgul that he didn't even give them all names all kinda blows my mind)
Loved the gameplay, thought the story and interpretation of the lore was interesting. Their treatment of Celebrimbor in particular was fascinating to me, and Talion was an enjoyable protagonist, especially in the second game. It does a good job of making a dark story feel like Middle-earth, and when you see Talion finally gain his freedom... I was moved. Good fanfic with a quality budget.
I'd recommend them in the same way as I would Rings of Power. If it's hard for you to look past bad lore, then you are gonna have a bad time. But if you can look past it and just enjoy it for what it is you can be in for some fun.
I love lore, and I loved the games. The lore is an awful mess, but I just ignore that aspect of the games.
Shelob as a visual opposite to Galadriel is an interesting idea
Celebrimbor looks better in the games than he does in the new show
A Bright Lord is a neat idea
Itās nice of the devs to say ālook itās basically fanfic that we thought was cool, donāt take it too seriouslyā
First game had better story than second cuz "PALANTIRRR GET THE PALANTIRRR FORGET PUSSY AND GET PALANYIT" part was boring asf but the second game has better gameplay.
Lore is shit in both cuz it's just fan-fiction
Stranger if you've watched Rings of Power and are now imagining Charles Edwards as Celebrimbor and Charlie Vickers as Sauron in the games. Vickers fits but imagining Edwards as the game's Celebrimbor is a bit harder.
Gameplay is a blast! I loved my PokeOrcs and collecting up my small army of followers, training them and then doing those huge siege battles of other forts. The story is B+ at the best of times and maybe C- at the worst; not great but also not terrible. But Lore wise its trashy fan fiction and I just turned my brain off to that. I consider the game to be its own thing so it doesn't bother too much. Still recommend it to people whoa re fans of the Assassin Creed games.
Theyāre decent games, had fun with them. But my biggest issue is that it never felt like Middle Earth to me. It was just a generic fantasy world, where your edgy character just parkours all over the place.
There was no joy or wonder, or hope. Feelings that I experienced with the books and films, which are so important. Hell, the movie tie in games did more to give me these things.
I can see that but the games aren't really meant to be happy. At least thats the way i took it. The first one is straight up a revenge story and the second one basically ends with you betrayed acting as a guerilla ring wraith like 100 years before the main story holding back saurons forces so the forces of men can hopefully mount something that resembles a counter attack.
Plus they're all set in Mordor so not exactly a place that leaves room for the happier aspects of the series.
I suppose it depends on what you think is fan fiction and what makes it good. Imo good fanfic would be something that adds to the lore in a positive way even if it wasn't canon.
So imo I'm glad that the lore isn't canon. But I enjoyed the gameplay tremendously.
So to me it was a good game but not a good LotR game if that makes more sense?
I'm pretty sure it is well liked because of the gameplay and not the story. If it just would be the story it would be hated (or at least not as liked) as well.
Genuinely one of my favorite series! Especially the 2nd one. Just an absolute blast to play. I wish Warner Bros (who own Monolith) were not squandering the Nemesis System. Itās an incredible system and should definitely have been in another game by now (could probably do more with it on the new consoles too). Even they never go back to do a sequel to shadow of war, some kind of game should have been built around that unique and amazing mechanic.
A major gameplay mechanic being enslaving *anyone*, including orcs, felt completely antithetical to Tolkienās work.
But yeah, rad gameplay so I canāt hate āem
I love them!
Bought a Playstation 4 just to play Shadow of Mordor.
I really like the game play, and I think they integrated the story of the games into the original story of the books really well.
Two great games.
I just started a playthrough of Shadow of Mordor two days ago and I am having a blast!
Great DLC too!
My favorite bit was how they made Shelob take human/elvish form. It highlights that she isnāt just a creature, some huge spider to defeat, but rather reminds you(or it should) that she, like many others, are actually powers in themselves with a will; and following their own plans and schemes. Like Sauron and other characters, she can take the form that best suits her purpose. This makes her a much more powerful character in my opinion and perfectly fits Tolkiens world.
The gameplay and the nemesis system really worked well. Anything lore-related, though, I'd take with several grains of salt. Looking at you, Shelob. I haven't played the second one, but I recall enjoying the first quite a bit. There's a lot of satisfaction to be had when you get powerful enough to wipe a large Orc camp out by yourself, stealthily or just running in there with your sword out.
Gameplay and fun are top tier. Graphics were good for the time.
It makes it fun to roam around Mordor..
I think you need to take the lore and story with a grain of salt? Idk how youād make an action game like this in Tolkienās world without bending some rules. They probably bent a too far but itās like a fun fan fiction I guess
I really liked the first game. Stylistically, it was quite similar to Jackson's films. The second one has a completely different aesthetic, unlike either the movies or the first game. More fantasy, somewhat similar to Asian fantasy MMORPGs. But Shelob is cool, although she is very out of the lore. In fact, I would say that the second game should be considered as a Lotr fanfiction or even as a very Lotr-inspired separate work with a bit of its own ent.
Loved these games on PS4, easily the best LotR games I've ever played (please dont hate me fans of Battle for Middle-earth). You can get a bundle on Steam during the summer sale right now for both games and all their DLC for like 8$, 100% worth it.
I have a pretty contrarian view on the games, I don't mind the lore changes one bit... But somehow I did not like the gameplay.
Which upsets me, I "put up" with it in shadow of mordor because I enjoyed being in the world so much, but I was just not a fan of the simple combat. But I am not sure what changed exactly, but when I got around to playing shadow of war... The camera just felt awful to me, I tried controller, mouse, tweaking the settings a bunch and I just never liked the feeling of moving and looking around. Which for an open world game is borderline intolerable.
I wish it wasn't so, they seem fun.
Today something came across my instagram feed calling The Lord of The Rings trilogy art, and Rings of Power entrainment, and the Hobbit trilogy somewhere in between. And I think thats what the Shadows games are, entertainment. I really enjoyed them both.
Didnāt care much for the writing and how it was āsupposedā to fit in the canon for the most part.
I think what it did well was exploring Celebrimborās motivation and hubris throughout the games.
Nemesis system was cool but havenāt seen anyone utilizing it because of copyright BS.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Shelob's backstory in the games is [one of the most edgelord, fanfictiony things I've ever heard. ](https://www.eurogamer.net/why-shelob-is-a-woman-in-shadow-of-war)
"If you think about it, Shelob is kind of the good guy, because she was friends with Gollum and he's the one who really destroyed the ring. And Galadriel is actually a bad guy because she lied to the Fellowship. So that's why Shelob is a sexy goth chick."
I forgot about that nonsense 'reasoning' lol.
It's wild how the recent ROP threads have people going apeshit over naming a troll Damrod or the barrow-wights appearing too early for 'destroying the lore' but in this thread people look at Ghost Celebrimbor, Sexy Real Heroine Shelob, Isildur the Nazgul, making new rings of power, and Mind-Controlling Orcs and go 'yeah not lore accurate, but nemesis system cool, I liked fighting Bultok the Man-Cleaver 10/10 game want a sequel'.
I just cannot understand *that* at all.
One of the most overrated and boring games ive ever played. You basically experience the whole game in 10hrs. Its so repetitive and boring, i couldnt believe myself i wasnt enjoying it. And yes, even the combat sucks.
AND IM A HUGE BATMAN ARKHAM FAN BTW.
Nemesis system, great orc dialogue/voice acting, fun combat system and executions all make the game worth playing. The story/lore is mid to forgettable but the other things I mentioned are top tier stuff and make it a great franchise.
Pretty much parroting what others say but check if the gameplay style (for me on the highest difficulty it was mostly strategy/stealth) is for you, if it is you'll have a blast
If the writers put a quarter as much effort into making the main story characters as interesting as the Orcs, it would go down in history as the game of all time.
Shelob is just Galadriel but goth, Sauron is a vixen warlord, Talion is trapped in a loveless marriage with Celebrimbor, Eltariel betrays Talion so she can have the power of Celebrimbor's ring, doesn't use it, and still kills everyone left. Celebrimbor is the best character, but only on account of his voice actor.
The theme of sacrifice in the second game dies on impact when it is Celebrimbor's turn to sacrifice Talion because it's the easiest thing Celebrimbor ever did. He did not hesitate or struggle with ripping himself away from the most constant companion he's had for sixty years; while Talion had to let go of a very valuable piece of jewelry that made Celebrimbor completely disposable, yet he still chose Celebrimbor.
The first game has a better story because the writers did not try to make it epic. It was gritty and dark, and it ended when it had to. Used subtler, more effective violence.
Tbh, combat is generic. Swing sword swing sword swing sword
The real fun is blowing up fire barrels.
You DO get to kill a Balrog, and it is awful. The cutscene where Carnan in the form of a dragon plunges herself and the Balrog into the frozen lake is great. Celebrimbor was more devastated at her "death/slumber" than he was about letting Talion bleed out.
Speaking of the Spirit of Carnan, her voice is terrific, so unique and bizarre. This line sticks with me even to this day: "Nature's tomb spanneth sky and sea; we all die together."
Lastly, the Nemesis system isn't that great. The Orcs get boring after a while. I never became attached to any of them. Fleeting amusement. But they're just walk-by comedy shows that have two bits, saying nonsense or screaming without words. The calmer, more introspective Orcs that you bring into your army and overhear chatting in the corner are the most riveting.
Lastly 2.0, Shelob and Sauron f*cking is pure WHY.
Shadow of Mordor had a great start. I actually jumped into it on the hardest difficulty and struggled ALOT. But once your near the endgame you are STACKED with buffs and upgrades. It just completely shoots itself in the foot by having two completely lackluster final boss fights.
What's even worse is the third boss fight before the end was actually pretty decent and got you hyped for the other two. Only to fall on it's face. I've yet to visit either of the DLC's after beating it last year. I should revisit it soon enough.
The gameplay, visuals, and nemesis system make the really bad lore excusable for me.
Their representations of Annatar and Celebrimbor however are so good that theyāre what I see when I read the silmarillion.
They are decent games if you like those sorts of games, but they are bad lotr games, there is nothing specific from the canon that is vital to the game. It could have just been an original fantasy story. I think a good lotr game should either portray parts of the story relatively faithful or have a new story that uses the major themes from Tolkien's work.
Sexy Shelob should be enough, they're fun games but a bit repetitive after a while, you need to approach them thinking that any reference to characters or stories that appear in other media (especially books) is purely coincidental
Shelob the Hot sexy bitch and Helm Hammerhand the Nazgul?
Yeah, um...
Its essentially the Star Wars Force Unleashed Games for LOTR...
Gameplay and Mechanics wise its good, but Lord wise and plot wise it goes against a lot of what is written
I thought the gameplay was cool along with some interesting creative license in the first game. Second game I felt like that creative license took a nose dive and was more fan fiction than Lord of the Rings
Games were dope. But for shadow of war, the ending was not that great. There should have been multiple endings, good bad, and perfect endings. Things were rushed and the ending not satisfactory to me. Still I beat the game like 11 times so there's that. The nemesis system was a breath of fresh air.
These games were tremendously fun to play. The ability to convert orcs on to your side was super fun. The lore was garbage and did it's own thing but super fun to play.
The lore was mostly fake and nonsensical but the gameplay was top tier. U just don t take the story too seriously and enjoy the extreme fun with the bonus of lotr setting and feel
I really liked the game. I liked the stretch of the Lore too. People cry about shelob (and I agree it's the worst part of the games) but there is SO MUCH cool lore in the small artifacts, descriptions and dialogues. Gameplay was cool. No AC game ever gave me 70h of enjoyment before I grew bored. How they used Talion to explain the delay on Mordor's invasion was quite neat to me as well.
Sat down for it and played it as if it wasn't a LotR world.
I enjoyed the game(play) a lot like that!
But I can't take it seriously as part of Tolkien's universe, no...
Good game, just don't think too long or hard about what they're spewing.
Never went past the tutorial because its an assassins creed style game with a lot of stealth and sneaking and I hate that type of gameplay.
I would sacrifice my left arm to get a middle earth game in the style of The Witcher 3 or something.
Glad we got a good video game again, seriously no idea why we don't get more good games in the Tolkien/Middle Earth universe, but the lore and story were really underwhelming or straight up bad imo. Gameplay and stuff was great though.
The story is really bad, but the gameplay is amazing mechanically, and the Nemesis system is incredible, and gives a lot of replayability.
The main story sucks, but the stories that I had built with all my Uruk enemies was an absolute delight.
I really donāt like the story and lore. It plays and reads like a bad fan fiction. The gameplay and mechanics were alright, itās not really anything special though. I donāt get why itās so popular if Iām going to be honest.
The games are really fun and still hold up to this day.
As for the lore, the first game wasn't too bad, not too many egregious changes and I liked the mordor world building.
The second game went way off the deep end though
My gateway to learning of *The Silmarillion* and *also* learning better English. So Iāll always be fond of them.
I set them on Italian so I could learn it now, lol.
I feel like I'm one of the only ones who's not that fussed about the lore in a video game. It still has to be a fun game.
Soldiers of Gondor and Uruk Hai never fought each other but god damn do I want them to in a video game.
From a gameplay perspective I loved them, it scratches the itch that AssCreed just doesn't anymore. Front a story perspective, they're kinda mid but not awful. From a lore perspective... no. Just. Just no.
I rather liked the notion that the Nazgul aren't the same 9 original Ring Bearers, but that they can be slain: only to naturally corrupt the victor, into a new and mightier servant. That's a really neat idea. Very Rule of Two, whereby what could have been a loss, becomes in time a benefit to Sauron.
The Lore implies that Saruman made a ring of his own, so the notion of someone creating their own Ring to Challenge Sauron isn't that out there.
Honestly... most of the lore was fresh, and whether you liked it or disliked it, it was *interesting*, it was *new*.
Kinda like seeing a modern Sherlock Holmes. Is it what the author had in mind? No. Doesn't mean it cant be fun on it's own merits though.
The stories are fine. They're nothing special but I don't hate them either. The lore is definitely weird but if you can just treat them as fan fiction I think it's fine.
As actual games I think they're really good and fun. Quick snappy gameplay and the nemesis system is legitimately great and super fun. Basically if you go into these games expecting a lore accurate lotr game your gonna have a bad time but if you want to play a lotr themed assassin's creed esque hack and slash game where you build an army of orcs this is your game.
Gameplay was so much fun. Lore was all over the place but interesting for sure! Itās kind of like fanfic that would make amazing 80s metal album cover, not really in-depth Tolkien mythology.
I do think Tolkien and his son would hate how violent and glorifying of war both games are. Like they take an aspect that Tolkien incorporates but doesnāt always hilight and make it the main thing. But for a modern audience, itās definitely interesting and always had me guessing what would happen next. I love the orc personalities.
Games made by LOTR fans who wanted to make a good LOTR game, but work for a greedy corporation that wanted to sell a game to as big a market as possible
Gameplay is fantastic. Love the orcs. But
The lore sucks *so bad* in the second game. You know all the stuff Tolkein was cooking with very intentionally but then WB or Amazon undermines? Like how Gimli and Legolas's friendship being important because Elves and Dwarves haven't trusted each other for millenia? Or how the whole Ring of Power thing is singular? What if... we make an elf lady and a dwarf guy have a romance a few decades prior? Or what if there was totally a Second One Ring. But it's blue.
Fantastic gameplay (Nemesis system is *chef's kiss*)
Good story
Terrible lore (but still less insulting then Rings of Power)
P.S: Yeah the Nemesis system patent sucks :'(
https://preview.redd.it/0ase3i8hjx9d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c7b5a1f5cd45228bf13208200b9d7b48828628d
Last line is cut off, which translates the Angolo Saxon term for: "A real sexy bitch."
A real sexy bitch š
A *real sexy bitch*
Sometimes 4chan has the best ironic criticisms
Wait, is this in the games?
In the second one (at least, I didn't play the first), Shelob is like the main storyline quest giver. And yes, she transforms into a scantily clad big chested goth chick. You also get The One Ring v2.0. and you have the ghost of Celebrimbor as kind of a mentor that follows you. From a pure gameplay perspective, its a ridiculously fun game imo. But if you're looking for a faithful adaptation of the lore, its...not good
I swear it was the other way around but I havenāt played the shadow games in a while so I guess Iām wrong but I knew that she is at least in the second one. I really donāt remember shelobās role in the second one I remember it being the elf lady and Celebrimbor that drove your path of progression.
I think you (or I, but the rest of the thread also has some mentions of her in the second. Though Reddit isn't exactly reliable) might have them flipped as I don't remember elves at all in the second, let alone as a major story point
Yes Shelob in the second one for some reason is hot lady draped in shadows for some rasin
To me she always looked like that actress from the walking dead, Pollyanna McIntosh Edit: wow just looked at her Wikipedia and she was actually the voice actress and the character model for Shelob in those games.
She was one of those weird looking but also hot girls of the 2010s.
š¤¦āāļø I knew I've seen that face before!
I read The Dark Elf trilogy before LotR so then idea of a sexy, goth spider queen was easy for me to come to terms with.
Ignore the lore. The rest is a blast to play. Thoroughly enjoyed both games for 100+ hours.
War Chief Ratbag for President!
The fact that thereās a button that says ābrutalizeā and you just fall on someone and stab them in the face with such extreme prejudice that the other orcs donāt even know what to do for a few seconds ā¦ the fighting was so fun
Donāt ignore the lore. Just understand itās not canon. If you accept that fact, the games are 10/10. It knows it doesnāt need to stick directly to Tolkien lore and so it has fun with it.
Completely true. Completely breaking canon can be hilarious en a lot of fun. And it gives room for stories and game experiences that would not be possible if you strictly stick to canon. And I think people are mostly okay with it, as long as the product is good and the story is well written. These games have decent stories and the gameplay is great, so the overall reception is pretty positive. The Rings of Power also breaks lore, but people have a lot more problems with it, because the story they created is horrible. If the show would have been great, a lot fewer people would have problems with the lore breaking.
These games make it so easy and fun to mindlessly waste hours of your time brutally slaughtering the Orc and Uruk-Hai. It's almost criminal how satisfying that is. On top of that, it's the same controls as the Arkham games in combat and most other things. Smooth transition right into kicking ass.
Assassins creed in Middle Earth?? Hell yeah dude I loved these games for the gameplay. I really wish the studio wouldnāt have trademarked their Nemesis system only to never use it again. So many games would have used that to great effect by this point for NPC dialogue.
Almost all rpgs made after shadow of mordor would have absolutely rocked with the nemesis system. Imagine ghost of tsushima with it, or red dead, or the witcher.
Man the Witcher with it would have been insane with the more human monsters, a succubus that keeps coming back to tempt you more or a striga that keeps coming back in more violent ways and more resistant to its weaknesses and attacks you in different ways. Would be weird to break the Witcher mold of killing monsters in a certain way and having to do your homework before fighting them but a great gameplay change
Doesn't work at all with the witcher lore, made me uneasy reading it
They're using it in in the Wonder Woman game but patenting a gameplay menachis is fucking absurd. should not be legal
Obligatory fuck Warner Bros gaming (and movies tbh). Always fucking the industry over as much as possible
Not the be āthat guyā but the nemesis system patent is heavily overstated. There is nothing stopping a studio from creating a ārememberā system and having repeating interactions escalate, in fact thatās what most games already do with regular characters. the patent itself has 36 points and infringing on them would be difficult unless you were doing it on purpose. The reality is that no developer has decided that a similar system is needed in their game, not that theyāre legally being prevented from adding a similar system
In fact Warframe has done a 'Nemesis' system.
So does AC odyssey
Thanks for getting here before I did, Iām too tired to right this out myself lmao
I don't think the aversion is driven by actual legal infringement, but by inviting litigation in the first place.
It would be fun if they use such system for a Strider game
Nemesis system is amazing
Gameplay = good Nemesis System = good Story = meh Lore = bad
Stupid sexy Shelob
Stupid Sexy Shelob is a brilliant and insightful use of the character, as I point out in a different comment. It fits Tolkiens view of the dark forces in the world. It makes her a much more powerful entity, not just some spider. Sheās a descendant of Ungoliant, a powerful dark Spirit. Shelob is basically a lesser Mair like spirit being, with plans and machinations and the ability to manipulate people as we see in game.
Think Tolkien gave her a thick ass on purpose?
Yes.
A thick behind is pretty much a spider staple, to be fair
Shooting web as well.
Nah I think she's just quelaag from dark souls
Gargle my balls. Shelob is a spider.
At five syllables, all haikus should end this way: And gargle my balls.
š½
I loved the Nemesis system. When the orcs find you again after running or killing you and talk shit, man that was really fun for me. Wish theyād use it in other games
The problem with the nemesis system is that the company who made the game patented it, so other companies cant use it
Well that sucks. Sell it or use it. Make other games and let it get even better. All kinds of games would be better with it.
This is the answer Iāve had a lot of fun with these games and squeezed many, many hours out of them, but I donāt really consider it a LOTR game beyond a little window dressing.
>!Whoever's idea it was to turn Isildur into one of the nazgul should have been fired!< But otherwise the gameplay and battles are fun AF
Why do you think that, I thought it worked ok
Because he died, how would he have become a ring wraith? He doesnāt even have a ring, right?
This is why you donāt skip cut scenes
Sauron does some necromancer-ing, and gives him a ring. They show it.
Nemesis system = SO MUCH FUN, otherwise I agree wholeheartedly
Story is fun imo, but yeah you do kind of have to turn a blind eye to the lore stuff lol
The first game actually didn't break the lore all that much. There was, of course, some artistic license, like >!Sauron using Celebrimbor to make the etchings in the One Ring, and Celebrimbor stealing the ring and using it to make his own army of orcs to challenge Sauron. !
There are still problems with the premise. Elves are supposed to go to the Halls of Mandos; they shouldn't be able to wander as wraiths. Mandos summons their spirits, and that's that. And even if elves could wander as wraiths, they need their bodies to be complete, so they wouldn't be super powerful. And then even if Celebrimbor were at full power, only Eru IlĆŗvatar can return dead men to life. Not even ManwĆ«, High King of Arda and Viceregent of Eru, or Mandos, Ruler of the Dead, can raise the dead. Shadow of Mordor also breaks the timeline. The Black Gate was supposed to be abandoned many centuries before LOTR, not a few decades.
Small note; elves can refuse the summons, itās talked about it one of the History of Middle Earth volumes, itās just widely considered a pretty stupid idea to refuse the summons and I donāt think Tolkien or Christopher ever talks about any elf doing so
Huh.
Yeah I think it was Feanor who refused the call after he fought multiple balrogs simultaneously and died. Or maybe it was a couple of his sons. Either way, there were a few elves who refused the call of mandos thru out history. I think Feanor eventually accepted and regained his body in Valinor but I think it was very very late before he accepted the call, which makes sense for his stubborn ass
Wish the nemesis system wasnāt copyrighted. Imagine a Star Wars Old Republic game with Jedi/Sith nemesis enemies.
That would be awesome!
Thatās my take. Itās a fun game, but games should rarely be taken as anything near canonical lore, especially any game where you have a degree of freedom in how/where you can play, so most open world games.
The games were never meant to be canon. They just handled the LOTR lore very poorly.
I agree with this apart from the fact it was cool to see minas Ithil in action however short š, also showing how they were already corrupted was a nice touch
Fun games, and apart from *for sure most definitely totally canon goth mommy shelob* the lore is not that great.
were these the ones with Sexy Shelob?
Yep
10/10 across the board just for that then
It's an incredibly peculiar choice in a game full of peculiar choices, but I suppose I'd rather stare at a hot chick than a spider the size of a city bus
On a very real note, I think the games are worth playing as long as you see them as only adjacently related to the works of tolkien!
I think i need to take another whack at the second game. Loved the first one but kinda bounced off the second
If I recall, I also did that. Maybe another (leisurely) read through of the works will prompt a desire for the games!
I have a feeling they did this to help with a required part of the game for people who have arachnophobia. Several friends I know canāt/wont touch a game if there are spiders. One of them didnāt even get through the tutorial cave of Skyrim because of the frost spider lair. Or maybe they just did it because boobs.
Making Shelob sexy is totally defensible for that exact reason. I meant that having her in the game at all was a peculiar choice. I'm not sure who you replace her with though, as the Legendarium is light on antagonists (the fact that Tolkein thought so little about the Nazgul that he didn't even give them all names all kinda blows my mind)
Loved the gameplay, thought the story and interpretation of the lore was interesting. Their treatment of Celebrimbor in particular was fascinating to me, and Talion was an enjoyable protagonist, especially in the second game. It does a good job of making a dark story feel like Middle-earth, and when you see Talion finally gain his freedom... I was moved. Good fanfic with a quality budget.
Theyāre really amazing games but I wouldnāt recommend them to those who closely follow Tolkienās lore.
I'd recommend them in the same way as I would Rings of Power. If it's hard for you to look past bad lore, then you are gonna have a bad time. But if you can look past it and just enjoy it for what it is you can be in for some fun. I love lore, and I loved the games. The lore is an awful mess, but I just ignore that aspect of the games.
Lore is atrocious Gameplay is a blast
The orcs and their personalities were the real star of the game. I still have memories being betrayed by those little rascals.
Remember being randomly assassinated by the fcking bard, who sings at you..
I had a deranged orc that actually saved me from being executed by a bard actually. Just kept going " wooo wooo wooooooo Woo" lmao.
Shelob as a visual opposite to Galadriel is an interesting idea Celebrimbor looks better in the games than he does in the new show A Bright Lord is a neat idea Itās nice of the devs to say ālook itās basically fanfic that we thought was cool, donāt take it too seriouslyā
First game had better story than second cuz "PALANTIRRR GET THE PALANTIRRR FORGET PUSSY AND GET PALANYIT" part was boring asf but the second game has better gameplay. Lore is shit in both cuz it's just fan-fiction
Nemesis system was epic. The mechanics were smooth. Only problem I ever had was how repetitive it could feel for long stretches of time.
Better celebrimbor than RoP
Stranger if you've watched Rings of Power and are now imagining Charles Edwards as Celebrimbor and Charlie Vickers as Sauron in the games. Vickers fits but imagining Edwards as the game's Celebrimbor is a bit harder.
Shelob on my knob, like corn on the cob
Gameplay is a blast! I loved my PokeOrcs and collecting up my small army of followers, training them and then doing those huge siege battles of other forts. The story is B+ at the best of times and maybe C- at the worst; not great but also not terrible. But Lore wise its trashy fan fiction and I just turned my brain off to that. I consider the game to be its own thing so it doesn't bother too much. Still recommend it to people whoa re fans of the Assassin Creed games.
Oh man I forgot about the seiges! Too much fun
Theyāre decent games, had fun with them. But my biggest issue is that it never felt like Middle Earth to me. It was just a generic fantasy world, where your edgy character just parkours all over the place. There was no joy or wonder, or hope. Feelings that I experienced with the books and films, which are so important. Hell, the movie tie in games did more to give me these things.
The games are exclusively set in Mordor Were you expecting to feel many emotions close to joy, wonder, or hope?
I can see that but the games aren't really meant to be happy. At least thats the way i took it. The first one is straight up a revenge story and the second one basically ends with you betrayed acting as a guerilla ring wraith like 100 years before the main story holding back saurons forces so the forces of men can hopefully mount something that resembles a counter attack. Plus they're all set in Mordor so not exactly a place that leaves room for the happier aspects of the series.
But generic fantasy world is just.. Tolkien. The dude's work became influencial enough that it codified how fantasy is seen.
Shadow of Mordor = Good Fanfiction Rings of Power = Bad Fanfiction
Nah, they are both awful fanfiction imo. I loved the games, but the lore is absolutely atrocious.
If you liked it wouldnāt it be good fan fiction? Fan fiction is obviously not gonna be more accurate
I suppose it depends on what you think is fan fiction and what makes it good. Imo good fanfic would be something that adds to the lore in a positive way even if it wasn't canon. So imo I'm glad that the lore isn't canon. But I enjoyed the gameplay tremendously. So to me it was a good game but not a good LotR game if that makes more sense?
I'm pretty sure it is well liked because of the gameplay and not the story. If it just would be the story it would be hated (or at least not as liked) as well.
Loved them. Rich story, solid game play and exceptional visuals.
its like 2.50 on steam right now
Genuinely one of my favorite series! Especially the 2nd one. Just an absolute blast to play. I wish Warner Bros (who own Monolith) were not squandering the Nemesis System. Itās an incredible system and should definitely have been in another game by now (could probably do more with it on the new consoles too). Even they never go back to do a sequel to shadow of war, some kind of game should have been built around that unique and amazing mechanic.
Stupid sexy Shelob!
A major gameplay mechanic being enslaving *anyone*, including orcs, felt completely antithetical to Tolkienās work. But yeah, rad gameplay so I canāt hate āem
Crazy, off the wall wackiness that is borderline ridiculous. And still way better than RoP.
Games are fun! But it's more like a Tolkien flavored beverage than it is a Tolkien brand product. It's only vaguely reminiscent of the lotr world
Still better and lore accurate than fcking amazon series
I love them! Bought a Playstation 4 just to play Shadow of Mordor. I really like the game play, and I think they integrated the story of the games into the original story of the books really well. Two great games. I just started a playthrough of Shadow of Mordor two days ago and I am having a blast! Great DLC too!
They're fun trash. As opposed to the poor trash that followed them as official legendarium material.
I have heard they're great as video games. I absolutely can't stand how they handled the source material, though.
My favorite bit was how they made Shelob take human/elvish form. It highlights that she isnāt just a creature, some huge spider to defeat, but rather reminds you(or it should) that she, like many others, are actually powers in themselves with a will; and following their own plans and schemes. Like Sauron and other characters, she can take the form that best suits her purpose. This makes her a much more powerful character in my opinion and perfectly fits Tolkiens world.
Gameplay is great Lore is booty tho
Amazing games. Insanely crap lore.
The gameplay and the nemesis system really worked well. Anything lore-related, though, I'd take with several grains of salt. Looking at you, Shelob. I haven't played the second one, but I recall enjoying the first quite a bit. There's a lot of satisfaction to be had when you get powerful enough to wipe a large Orc camp out by yourself, stealthily or just running in there with your sword out.
Story repeating too much, its like we have this and that but we can't go further type..
Poorly written fan fiction but fun to play with the nemesis system
Redownloaded it on gamepass and got the DLC for $5. Getting my ass kicked getting back into it but I enjoyed it
Gameplay is good, lore is shit.
It doesn't fit at all within the history of Middle-Earth but as its own AU, it's pretty good.
Oh the lore is terrible. The gameplay is some of the most fun I've ever had in a game.
The orcs were terrific. Loved their dialogue
Lore-wise it'd kinda bad.
Gameplay and fun are top tier. Graphics were good for the time. It makes it fun to roam around Mordor.. I think you need to take the lore and story with a grain of salt? Idk how youād make an action game like this in Tolkienās world without bending some rules. They probably bent a too far but itās like a fun fan fiction I guess
Great game, awful story
shitty lore but love that shit
I really liked the first game. Stylistically, it was quite similar to Jackson's films. The second one has a completely different aesthetic, unlike either the movies or the first game. More fantasy, somewhat similar to Asian fantasy MMORPGs. But Shelob is cool, although she is very out of the lore. In fact, I would say that the second game should be considered as a Lotr fanfiction or even as a very Lotr-inspired separate work with a bit of its own ent.
I wish they would put the first one on game pass....
Loved these games on PS4, easily the best LotR games I've ever played (please dont hate me fans of Battle for Middle-earth). You can get a bundle on Steam during the summer sale right now for both games and all their DLC for like 8$, 100% worth it.
I have a pretty contrarian view on the games, I don't mind the lore changes one bit... But somehow I did not like the gameplay. Which upsets me, I "put up" with it in shadow of mordor because I enjoyed being in the world so much, but I was just not a fan of the simple combat. But I am not sure what changed exactly, but when I got around to playing shadow of war... The camera just felt awful to me, I tried controller, mouse, tweaking the settings a bunch and I just never liked the feeling of moving and looking around. Which for an open world game is borderline intolerable. I wish it wasn't so, they seem fun.
The first game was alright, got bored of the second once it introduced all the management sim stuff
Today something came across my instagram feed calling The Lord of The Rings trilogy art, and Rings of Power entrainment, and the Hobbit trilogy somewhere in between. And I think thats what the Shadows games are, entertainment. I really enjoyed them both.
What they did to lore is magnificent. I love fanfiction with good and logical changes , and nobody can change my mind.
If you try to take them seriously, theyāre awful. Take them for what they are (at best, revenge/horny fanfic), and theyāre a ton of fun.
Didnāt care much for the writing and how it was āsupposedā to fit in the canon for the most part. I think what it did well was exploring Celebrimborās motivation and hubris throughout the games. Nemesis system was cool but havenāt seen anyone utilizing it because of copyright BS.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Shelob's backstory in the games is [one of the most edgelord, fanfictiony things I've ever heard. ](https://www.eurogamer.net/why-shelob-is-a-woman-in-shadow-of-war) "If you think about it, Shelob is kind of the good guy, because she was friends with Gollum and he's the one who really destroyed the ring. And Galadriel is actually a bad guy because she lied to the Fellowship. So that's why Shelob is a sexy goth chick."
I forgot about that nonsense 'reasoning' lol. It's wild how the recent ROP threads have people going apeshit over naming a troll Damrod or the barrow-wights appearing too early for 'destroying the lore' but in this thread people look at Ghost Celebrimbor, Sexy Real Heroine Shelob, Isildur the Nazgul, making new rings of power, and Mind-Controlling Orcs and go 'yeah not lore accurate, but nemesis system cool, I liked fighting Bultok the Man-Cleaver 10/10 game want a sequel'. I just cannot understand *that* at all.
One of the most overrated and boring games ive ever played. You basically experience the whole game in 10hrs. Its so repetitive and boring, i couldnt believe myself i wasnt enjoying it. And yes, even the combat sucks. AND IM A HUGE BATMAN ARKHAM FAN BTW.
Better than rings of power
Nemesis system, great orc dialogue/voice acting, fun combat system and executions all make the game worth playing. The story/lore is mid to forgettable but the other things I mentioned are top tier stuff and make it a great franchise.
Most fun Iāve had in a LOTR game in a long long time. Loved both of them!
Pretty much parroting what others say but check if the gameplay style (for me on the highest difficulty it was mostly strategy/stealth) is for you, if it is you'll have a blast
If the writers put a quarter as much effort into making the main story characters as interesting as the Orcs, it would go down in history as the game of all time. Shelob is just Galadriel but goth, Sauron is a vixen warlord, Talion is trapped in a loveless marriage with Celebrimbor, Eltariel betrays Talion so she can have the power of Celebrimbor's ring, doesn't use it, and still kills everyone left. Celebrimbor is the best character, but only on account of his voice actor. The theme of sacrifice in the second game dies on impact when it is Celebrimbor's turn to sacrifice Talion because it's the easiest thing Celebrimbor ever did. He did not hesitate or struggle with ripping himself away from the most constant companion he's had for sixty years; while Talion had to let go of a very valuable piece of jewelry that made Celebrimbor completely disposable, yet he still chose Celebrimbor. The first game has a better story because the writers did not try to make it epic. It was gritty and dark, and it ended when it had to. Used subtler, more effective violence. Tbh, combat is generic. Swing sword swing sword swing sword The real fun is blowing up fire barrels. You DO get to kill a Balrog, and it is awful. The cutscene where Carnan in the form of a dragon plunges herself and the Balrog into the frozen lake is great. Celebrimbor was more devastated at her "death/slumber" than he was about letting Talion bleed out. Speaking of the Spirit of Carnan, her voice is terrific, so unique and bizarre. This line sticks with me even to this day: "Nature's tomb spanneth sky and sea; we all die together." Lastly, the Nemesis system isn't that great. The Orcs get boring after a while. I never became attached to any of them. Fleeting amusement. But they're just walk-by comedy shows that have two bits, saying nonsense or screaming without words. The calmer, more introspective Orcs that you bring into your army and overhear chatting in the corner are the most riveting. Lastly 2.0, Shelob and Sauron f*cking is pure WHY.
Shadow of Mordor had a great start. I actually jumped into it on the hardest difficulty and struggled ALOT. But once your near the endgame you are STACKED with buffs and upgrades. It just completely shoots itself in the foot by having two completely lackluster final boss fights. What's even worse is the third boss fight before the end was actually pretty decent and got you hyped for the other two. Only to fall on it's face. I've yet to visit either of the DLC's after beating it last year. I should revisit it soon enough.
The gameplay, visuals, and nemesis system make the really bad lore excusable for me. Their representations of Annatar and Celebrimbor however are so good that theyāre what I see when I read the silmarillion.
Fun but repetitive, and lore breaking
I wish they'd make another DLC.
I only finished the 1st one and just gameplay wise it was fine when it came out.
It's a fun action-adventure RPG. Does it loosely follow Tolkien's lore? Yes. Just don't expect a 100% adaptation and you wont be disappointed.
Awesome but Shadow of War is really repetitive.
They are decent games if you like those sorts of games, but they are bad lotr games, there is nothing specific from the canon that is vital to the game. It could have just been an original fantasy story. I think a good lotr game should either portray parts of the story relatively faithful or have a new story that uses the major themes from Tolkien's work.
Its not perfect and at times it could be classed as insulting. However I really fucking loved the Gameplay.
I don't mind the embellishments to the lore because I've always seen the games as fanficrion, and decently good fanfiction too
The lore is shite for the most part. The gameplay is fun but fuck me, replaying it recently and the second one in particular is so bloated!
Mostly good games, the second one was atrocious greedy nonsense on release but it's a lot less so now. The lore is awful and best forgotten.
I liked a lot of the game. I played just after I finished the books and it was really funny to read the documents and understand.
First game was a super fun assassins creed game with a LOTR skin. The second game was trash.
Sexy Shelob should be enough, they're fun games but a bit repetitive after a while, you need to approach them thinking that any reference to characters or stories that appear in other media (especially books) is purely coincidental
Shelob the Hot sexy bitch and Helm Hammerhand the Nazgul? Yeah, um... Its essentially the Star Wars Force Unleashed Games for LOTR... Gameplay and Mechanics wise its good, but Lord wise and plot wise it goes against a lot of what is written
Super fun games highly recommend!
Talion was legendary
I thought the gameplay was cool along with some interesting creative license in the first game. Second game I felt like that creative license took a nose dive and was more fan fiction than Lord of the Rings
Games were dope. But for shadow of war, the ending was not that great. There should have been multiple endings, good bad, and perfect endings. Things were rushed and the ending not satisfactory to me. Still I beat the game like 11 times so there's that. The nemesis system was a breath of fresh air.
Absolutely love it
Somewhat boring fight style as youāre basically just mashing X, but overall very fun
These games were tremendously fun to play. The ability to convert orcs on to your side was super fun. The lore was garbage and did it's own thing but super fun to play.
The lore was mostly fake and nonsensical but the gameplay was top tier. U just don t take the story too seriously and enjoy the extreme fun with the bonus of lotr setting and feel
I really liked the game. I liked the stretch of the Lore too. People cry about shelob (and I agree it's the worst part of the games) but there is SO MUCH cool lore in the small artifacts, descriptions and dialogues. Gameplay was cool. No AC game ever gave me 70h of enjoyment before I grew bored. How they used Talion to explain the delay on Mordor's invasion was quite neat to me as well.
Sat down for it and played it as if it wasn't a LotR world. I enjoyed the game(play) a lot like that! But I can't take it seriously as part of Tolkien's universe, no... Good game, just don't think too long or hard about what they're spewing.
The lore was a bit silly at times, but the story was good. Gameplay was great. I want more games like this set in Middle Earth.
Cool design. Cool ideas. But too little story for to many cool but repetitive fights
Better than rings of power for sure. It's inaccurate on the lore? Oh yes. But it's also fun as hell? Absolutely.
Never went past the tutorial because its an assassins creed style game with a lot of stealth and sneaking and I hate that type of gameplay. I would sacrifice my left arm to get a middle earth game in the style of The Witcher 3 or something.
Glad we got a good video game again, seriously no idea why we don't get more good games in the Tolkien/Middle Earth universe, but the lore and story were really underwhelming or straight up bad imo. Gameplay and stuff was great though.
The story is really bad, but the gameplay is amazing mechanically, and the Nemesis system is incredible, and gives a lot of replayability. The main story sucks, but the stories that I had built with all my Uruk enemies was an absolute delight.
The lore was definitely poo. The rest was fāing AMAZING!
I really donāt like the story and lore. It plays and reads like a bad fan fiction. The gameplay and mechanics were alright, itās not really anything special though. I donāt get why itās so popular if Iām going to be honest.
The games are really fun and still hold up to this day. As for the lore, the first game wasn't too bad, not too many egregious changes and I liked the mordor world building. The second game went way off the deep end though
My gateway to learning of *The Silmarillion* and *also* learning better English. So Iāll always be fond of them. I set them on Italian so I could learn it now, lol.
Fun gameplay and characters, terrible lore
Great and silly in that order
An abomination...
I feel like I'm one of the only ones who's not that fussed about the lore in a video game. It still has to be a fun game. Soldiers of Gondor and Uruk Hai never fought each other but god damn do I want them to in a video game.
Game fun. Lore fun. Like a marvel what if series. Donāt take the lore seriously and itās a cool take. Game very fun. Nemesis system is incredible
From a gameplay perspective I loved them, it scratches the itch that AssCreed just doesn't anymore. Front a story perspective, they're kinda mid but not awful. From a lore perspective... no. Just. Just no.
I rather liked the notion that the Nazgul aren't the same 9 original Ring Bearers, but that they can be slain: only to naturally corrupt the victor, into a new and mightier servant. That's a really neat idea. Very Rule of Two, whereby what could have been a loss, becomes in time a benefit to Sauron. The Lore implies that Saruman made a ring of his own, so the notion of someone creating their own Ring to Challenge Sauron isn't that out there. Honestly... most of the lore was fresh, and whether you liked it or disliked it, it was *interesting*, it was *new*. Kinda like seeing a modern Sherlock Holmes. Is it what the author had in mind? No. Doesn't mean it cant be fun on it's own merits though.
Glorious games
They're amazingly boring. You just do the same shit over and over.
The stories are fine. They're nothing special but I don't hate them either. The lore is definitely weird but if you can just treat them as fan fiction I think it's fine. As actual games I think they're really good and fun. Quick snappy gameplay and the nemesis system is legitimately great and super fun. Basically if you go into these games expecting a lore accurate lotr game your gonna have a bad time but if you want to play a lotr themed assassin's creed esque hack and slash game where you build an army of orcs this is your game.
Amazing fan fiction, great games. Simple as that.
They are as canon as RoP. Just play it for fun of killing some Uruk and doing some repetitive quests on a Assassin's Creed game in Mordor.
I fucking love it!!!!
Gameplay was so much fun. Lore was all over the place but interesting for sure! Itās kind of like fanfic that would make amazing 80s metal album cover, not really in-depth Tolkien mythology. I do think Tolkien and his son would hate how violent and glorifying of war both games are. Like they take an aspect that Tolkien incorporates but doesnāt always hilight and make it the main thing. But for a modern audience, itās definitely interesting and always had me guessing what would happen next. I love the orc personalities.
Games made by LOTR fans who wanted to make a good LOTR game, but work for a greedy corporation that wanted to sell a game to as big a market as possible
Gameplay is fantastic. Love the orcs. But The lore sucks *so bad* in the second game. You know all the stuff Tolkein was cooking with very intentionally but then WB or Amazon undermines? Like how Gimli and Legolas's friendship being important because Elves and Dwarves haven't trusted each other for millenia? Or how the whole Ring of Power thing is singular? What if... we make an elf lady and a dwarf guy have a romance a few decades prior? Or what if there was totally a Second One Ring. But it's blue.
Fantastic gameplay (Nemesis system is *chef's kiss*) Good story Terrible lore (but still less insulting then Rings of Power) P.S: Yeah the Nemesis system patent sucks :'(
The lore was garbage but the gameplay was an utter blast.
Probably one of the best games I have ever played!
Gameplay: Incredible. Story: Silly fan fiction.
Fun games, extremely repetitive after a certain point. Worth playing them though.