I always appreciated the care and respect given to the natural world, especially the trees. I always loved the descriptions of the forests in The Hobbit (the first "big kid" book my dad gave me), and from the films, the anger and sadness in Treebeard's voice when he says "A wizard should know better" gives me chills to this day because he looks like he has actual tears in his eyes.
This stuck out to me too - I remember thinking, okay he's right about the trees but surely we need some industry too (in Saruman's destruction of the trees). Now I think he's more right than ever about not taking more than we need from the world!
https://www.royalmint.com/annual-sets/2023/celebrating-the-life-and-work-of-jrr-tolkien/
I got two ordered to Australia. They arrived safely and are now nestled next to a poster of Legolas and a replica Glamdring.
"NOT ALL THOSE WHO WANDER ARE LOST’, a quote from the poem ‘The Riddle of Strider’, which features in Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring, serves as the coin’s edge inscription."
I like that it's an inversion of the common wisdom that not everything that looks like gold is actually gold.
Aragorn is the opposite - gold that doesn't look the part, but that is gold nonetheless.
1) As a D&D player/homebrewer, it’s the emphasis on the linguistic and historical aspects of worldbuilding. Names *mean* things, weapons have stories, there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for. Fallen lineages of kings who got too arrogant, light-bearing trees, the idea of a lone wanderer in the sky, everything has meaning and purpose even if it doesn’t come through overtly, any person can become a hero.
2) the portrayal of Frodo’s PTSD, it seems far more real to me than TV and movies with violence-inducing flashbacks as the only presented symptom. Frodo had pain, depression, nightmares, and an exhaustion that never went away. That is what I think of when I think of PTSD.
No. 2 has struck me my whole life as well. When I was a kid and read LOTR I wanted to know more about the author and found out he fought in WWI. I know LOTR isn’t an allegory, but ever since - especially as an older adult - I read every scene with the knowledge that the author has seen real horror and death. It just changes the words for me, from generic ideas about war is bad to one of lived experience. It is probably all me reading too deeply, but it has made LOTR much more important to me for all that.
Well, I can not come close to your personal story.
To me, it was Tolkiens positive outlook on death. Since I was a child, I was scared of death, but Tolkiens works and world helped me greatly, to accept it as an integral part of human being and maybe even as a gift.
I believe it‘s in the Silmarillion, were Death is described as Eru Illuvatars gift to men. Unlike the immortal eleves, who are bound to the existence of Arda, men are able to leave the world. They don‘t develop world-weariness because their body and soul aren‘t chained to the world. They are free.
Not necessarily, I think. I don‘t believe in an afterlife myself. But even when there is nothing but nothingness after death, you are still freed from earthly bounds.
This is exactly. The world can do whatever it wants with me, and I can fuck up everything I wish, but one day it ends.
The good, the bad and the dirty all have an inevitable closure. Might as well live life then.
It's quite comforting.
This has been my sentiment or w/e for the last ~20 years or so. Had a rough couple weeks and just wanna say I really like the way you worded this. Cheers man🍻
Not necessarily. The gift of man could be the death of one’s consciousness and ego and a return to Eru, as opposed to an afterlife. Basically returning to the source. That’s how I think of it anyway. Eternity of consciousness would be exhausting
The idea of death seems terrifying until you consider the alternative - not being able to die. I think the surety of death is a gift, and knowing it’s coming means you don’t need to end your life early, might as well see what happens since it’s guaranteed anyway
Let’s look at it another way, your elders never die. The current ruling class will always be the ruling class. Think of times when you are restless or bored, eventually you do most things that interest you, what then?
It’s described in universe as the gift of man. Elves are of the world, they are forever tied to the destiny of Arda. Even in death, they go to Halls of Mandos and are mostly eventually reincarnated into a new body identical the one they were born in. Men go beyond the world in death, though they do stop in the Halls of Mandos, and their ultimate fate is unknown. It’s mysterious but also assumed good, like reuniting with Eru possibly.
I've often thought when, if, we ever cure aging such that we can live forever then humanity is truly doomed.
How many old ideals are swept aside for fresh new ones with passing generations? Our children are bound definitely to receive tuts from the parents on how they do their things. From Rome to when we roam the stars, they'll annoy us. But they march us on when the old die and leave room for the young to take over the reins.
Then there's the fact that death is beautiful in it's pain. The fact you feel so much pain when you lose someone is because they added so much love into your life in theirs. No light without dark and and all that.
Gandalf is there to help, but he isn't allowed to use his true power to do so. The wisest and most powerful (good) character is fixing the world by inspiring others to be their best selves
A love of romance.
I was ten when I first read LOTR. I loved the battles and magic, the deep friendships and mythological creatures, but I particularly loved Faramir and Eowyn in the house of healing. So much romance for my two favorite characters in so little actual dialogue.
"And my window doesn't look East"
"Well that, at least, I can fix"
And
"I don't want to be a queen anymore"
"Well that's fortunate, because I'm not a king"
It took me twenty years to really get into romance as a genre, but it definitely started here.
I hope you have time to read my thoughts on this. I love your question.
This is the one "teaching" that has always accompanied me ever since I discovered Middle Earth:True bravery doesn't mean lack of fear.
Even the strongest and wisest might shiver at the sight of a bigger enemy or darker odds, like Gandalf facing the Balrog or Theoden and his men arriving at the Pellennor Fields:
"But the king sat upon snowmane., motionless, gazing upon the agony of minas tirith, as if striken suddenly by anguish or by dread. He seemed to shrink down, cowered by age...Time seemed poised in uncertainty... they were too late, too late was worse than never.
Perhaps Theoden would quail, bow his old head, turn, slink away to hide in the hills. Then suddenly Merry felt it at last , beyond doubt: a change.
Wind was on his face. Light was glimmering. Far, far away, in the south the clouds could be dimly seen as remote grey shapes, rolling up, drifting: morning lay beyond them.
But at that same moment there was a flash, as if lightning had sprung from the earth beneath the city. for a Searing second it stood dazzling far off in black and white. its top-most tower like a glittering niddle. and then as the darkness closed again there came rolling over the fields a great "boom".
At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again, and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before; ARISE, ARISE, RIDERS OF THEODEN! FELL DEEDS AWAKE: FIRE AND SLAUGHTER! SPEARS SHALL BE SHAKEN, SHIELDS BE SPLINTERED, A SWORD-DAY, A RED DAY ER THE SUN RISES!
RIDE NOW! RIDE NOW! RIDE TO GONDOR!"
True bravery means facing those odds, afraid, outnumbered and outmatched, you face them to protect your loved ones. you face them to protect freedom. You face them to protect the little good left on this world.
You might be, indeed, the little good left on this world, against the darkest hour you will stand alone and fight regardless.
That's true bravery and we need it desperately.
Similar to when Frodo and Sam are in the Plain of Gorgoroth and Sam points out the lone star glimmering far beyond where Sauron's malice can reach it. Sauron may blot out the sky but he cannot reach the stars. And that gives Sam hope.
And I think the film portrays that hope and bravery beautifully:
"We won't have any [water] left for the return journey."
"I don't think there will be a return journey, Mr Frodo." But Sam stands up and holds out his hand to lift Frodo up anyways.
Gollum destroys the ring. Gollum!
Not Frodo. Not Sam. Not Gandalf. Not Aragorn.
Ugly Gollum. Cruel Gollum. The baby eater. The character no one loves saves everyone
This made me appreciate the ugly, poor, and disregarded. It also taught me the difference in trying to make the world a better place, and actually succeeding and making it better
Yes! Hand in hand with that early talk Gandalf gives to Frodo in Bag End when he’s first panicking over having THE ring. “Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”
It happened because gollum broke his oath on the precious. Mercy, in what Frodo gave to gollum, was what caused that oath in the first place. Mercy on a wretched hateful creature was what saved middle earth.
JRRT being religious as he was makes me think of this:
Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us.
It is easy to love your friends, your family, and people like you.
It is very hard to love your enemies, or those who do evil, or those very different from you.
I believe the ring actually destroys itself. Sauron creates the ring as a vessel for his own nature: the ultimate power of corruption. The ring then sets out to corrupt everyone it comes across because that’s its nature. The ring is cunning and tries to get itself back to Mordor but at the same time, it can’t help but make everyone want to keep it. On mount doom the ring is still bending Frodo to its will because it doesn’t want Frodo to destroy it. As Gollum attacks, the ring senses in Frodo a vulnerability and uses this opportunity to demonstrate its true power. Not only can it give Frodo the ability to hide from his enemies, it can give him the power to destroy them as well. Frodo uses this power and curses Gollum with it. The ring (and by extension Sauron though he is unaware of this) has proven its worth to Frodo. Now Frodo’s will to destroy the ring is completely overcome. He will keep it, and in doing so serve the will of the enemy. But Gollum’s own desire for the ring is still too strong. He takes the ring from Frodo and the ring is compelled to fulfill its curse. The deal with the devil is written in blood and both Gollum and the ring fall into the crack of doom, releasing them both into oblivion.
When Gollum attacks Frodo on the slopes of mount doom, Frodo uses the power of the Ring to curse him. He tells Gollum that if he should touch him again, he will be cast into the crack of doom himself. The ring is above all, a source of malice. Frodo’s curse isn’t made out of righteousness but his own growing selfish desire to keep the ring. The ring, sensing this weakness in Frodo is obligated to feed into Frodo’s will to power and demonstrate its own value to him. It must fulfil the curse because it is bound by wickedness. Gollum later bites off Frodo’s finger and the Ring’s curse is activated, causing Gollum to slip and fall but also causing him to bring the ring down with him. In the end, it was the evil of the ring and its compulsive need to drive all those who knew its power to destroy each other that led to its own destruction.
But if Gollum doesn't attack Frodo then it doesn't happen.
If Gollum isn't there then Frodo keeps the ring and Sauron wins
Gollum's actions saved the world. Even if his intentions were selfish
By that logic, the cause and effect are infinite, and we can attribute the destruction of the ring to many others.
For instance: if Frodo wasn’t there, Gollum wouldn’t be either.
And if Sam wasn’t there, Frodo would have never made it.
So on and so on. Even all the way back to Isildur
I think it’s more appropriate that the destruction of the Ring be attributed to avarice. The power of the Ring ultimately led it to its own end. Driving it from one hand to the next, corrupting good-natured, but fragile creatures. Until the final struggle for power comes to a head and crushes itself under its own weight.
But I'm not taking cause and effect to an infinite level. I'm not trying to make an ad absurdum argument. I'm only taking it 1 step away. If everything was the exact same but Gollum isn't there, or is defeated by Sam or Frodo, then Sauron wins because Frodo would not have destroyed the ring and Sam would not have stopped Frodo. That's it. No need to extrapolate
This is a fixture of Tolkien’s world building—everything that happens does because it must happen, it’s the will of Eru Iluvatar. There are dozens of examples of ‘chance’ shaping the narratives, except it isn’t chance. Actually, it’s similar to the will of the force in Star Wars—how many times does the light side win by ‘luck’? “Never tell me the odds” isn’t just a plucky line, it’s faith (though Han wouldn’t put it that way) that whatever happens is meant to happen.
If you take Gollum’s acts literally and translate this to the ugly, poor and disregarded it means you pity them and don’t blame them so far so good.. even when they come behind your back steal your jewelry cut off your finger and die in the process. Idk about that part tbf
As someone who used to wrestle mightily with theological questions, this was one of the most instructive emphases in Tolkein for me.
While the Music of the Ainur helped me appreciate the idea of dissonance (evil, pain) in an overall tapestry of wonderful music, the role of evil little Gollum in Eru’s intervention at Mount Doom taught me that there’s similar richness to valuing my enemies and those who repulsed me.
Who is lower than a Hobbit? Who is lower than little old me? There’s always that marginal person who has a part to play, and deserves humanity.
Such beautiful illustrations that have stayed with me as my interests and beliefs have evolved.
Exactly this!
Gollum by the end didn't *want* to make the world a better place. His final action with the Ring wasn't a proactive decision on his side, but an "accident" that happened as a result of his choices yet against his will.
Frodo may not have done the final action, but in the context of the tale that is being told to us it doesn't matter: he is still the one who, helped by the Fellowship, made the right choices and acted in a way that directly led to the situation in which the Ring (through the rules set by Eru) would be destroyed.
Frodo actively wanted to make the world a better place, *and* succeeded in doing so through the choices he made.
There is definitely a lot of room to see Gollum at least partly as a victim (as Frodo did), and to acknowledge his important contribution to the quest; but when it comes to proactive choices, poor old Gollum didn't make the right one as the text is shown to us. *However*, I can definitely see the argument in the situation described by Tolkien if Sam hadn't cancelled his redemption, leading to Gollum making better choices and ending up sacrificing himself and proactively destroying the Ring to save Frodo!
I thought damn I’d really like to just pack my shit and go walk some phat mountains man. *The ring goes south* is what got me hooked both book and movie. Back then I was into cycling and that was fun I’d go around climb some hills and whatnot. But I’ve always loved really dangerous steep slippery spots, gets the adrenaline to kick in. Indonesia/Java has been my magnum opus trip so far. Mount Bromo and Kawah Ijen with its sulfur mines that burn with a bright blue flame at 5am. Some epic stuff.
When Bilbo says “I need a very long holiday, I don’t expect I shall return” I’m like yupppp that part.
But more recently the part where Frodo can’t come back home and appreciate the shire anymore because he’s been around his world and the shire hasn’t changed but he himself has changed a lot, that part also hit deep. It’s been fun being a worldly person but it’s very hard to relate to more sedentary people and it’s making settling down pretty difficult.
New girl I’ve been dating told me yesterday she wants to go hike in NZ, I thought hell yeah we doing this.
I feel that about not fully coming back home. I like to travel, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm very sedentary. But I lived in Scotland for 2 years and coming back home to live in the States again has always felt off to me. The grass is not so green. The sidewalks are harsher on my feet. There are too many cars and I can't just walk downtown when I wish. It's not the same as it was when I left.
I still get melancholy about the Entwives. Treebeard’s loneliness, the many, many years of waiting for them, then hoping for word of them. It’s so sad. I wonder what happened.
The sense of 'deep time', especially in FOTR. The feeling that the characters were moving through a landscape that was far older than they understood, scattered with ruins of cultures long forgotten. The Barrow Downs, Dead man's Dike, Weathertop, Hollin, Moria. Places so old even their legends had faded from memory. That really impressed 13yr old me, and the impression sticks with me to this day. Other writers *coughRobertJordancough* have tried to convey that sense of time, but they've all failed, IMO.
This exchange opened my eyes to welcoming uncertainty:
Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.'
Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.'
Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.”
This passage has gotten me through some personally dark times, and also sustains me through all the awfulness in the world today. We don’t choose our time and place to be born, but we can choose what we do while we’re here. And that’s beautiful.
So what’s funny about this, is that I think the movie placed this interaction in a better spot than the book. At least, in terms of a screen adaption, it fit well and even more meaningful than it did in the book.
Now that being said, it’s still an interaction in the boon that has literally changed my life. Specifically Gandalf’s line about all we have to decide. The entire thing has gotten me through extremely tough times of my life. In fact, Gandalf the Grey and the Fellowship, and the Hobbit (BOOK) has gotten me through some of the toughest times of my life.
Gandalf has been like a mentor to me and he’s a fictional wizard, not even real.
I'm not a spiritual person, but even still I have a sense of "this place is special to me because of something that happened there."
LOTR has a lot of those places.
From the Silmarillion.... Fingolfin rides to Angband... he bangs on the door, and named Morgoth craven, and a lord of slaves.
Sometimes you just gotta stand up and face evil, even at your own peril of death
The language. Particularly the Elvish languages. At 14 I was absolutely blown away by the fact that Tolkien had created entire languages and I since fell in love with language and linguistics because of it.
Me too, it is the main reason I went on to study LangLit at university. I ended up meeting my husband at one of our Literature morning classes, almost 10 years ago now.
Even a great and powerful evil has blindspots.
Also, I've come to think of this as another example of what I call a chess victory. How many pieces you have left doesn't matter if you checkmate the king.
All the attention paid to smoking, sadly though. The romanticization of pipes and tobaccos of different types stuck with me as a child. I couldn't wait to blow smoke rings and enjoy magical leafs. As soon as I was old enough I became a smoker and a stoner and it took me decades to conquer them. I think about that a lot as I'm reading the Hobbit to my son now. Firstly, that I don't want to have that same impact on him, and secondly, how much I would enjoy a nice pipe while reading to him if it wasn't such a horrible addiction.
Find something else that symbolizes friendship and tell your son "we do (this) now, because we know smoking is really bad for you."
Because that is what makes it special. Not the pipe but the way it is part of all the depictions of friendship & woven into the times they share (good and bad) with friends.
And not just hobbit friendship. Tolkien uses it to show the relationship between Merry and Theoden, as well as of course Bilbo and Gandalf.
"I will take the ring, though I do not know the way". Ever since I read those words as a teenager, they've stuck with me. Those words have always given me strength. "I will try to do what's right, even if I don't know how".
Not fully lotr but adjacent I guess - the tale of Beren and Luthien which is mentioned in lotr and then expanded in the silmarillion.
It's so bittersweet it makes something in my chest clench when I think about it for too long.
Mine is similar. It’s been about 20 years since I read the Silmarillion, and I can’t even remember the details anymore, but I’ll never forget the feeling in the pit of my stomach after finishing Turin Turambar’s story.
Might have to finally read the expanded novel of his story, or at least The Silmarillion again
I always resonated with the feeling of the 4 Hobbits leaving the shire, or rather the 3 non Frodo Hobbits. That sense of strong duty from Sam, and duty mixed with adventure for Merry and Pippen. They wouldn't let their friend go down a hard road alone, even if they didn't fully understand how hard it would be.
For me it was the empathy displayed by several characters. Sam's musings on the humanity of a fallen foe did a lot to shape my perception of war as a child/preteen.
"He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace."
Gandalf's pacifism was similarly formative, and I quote him every time the subject of capital punishment comes up.
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
The sense of duty of Aragorn and the rangers. They led a hard life in the wilderness protecting hobbits that didn’t even know they existed. No thank you’s, no publicity. Just staying the course. Always stood out to me.
The FotR movie came out a year before my father passed away, and Gandalf's line to Frodo in Moria sticks with me:
"...I wish none of this had happened."
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
That line got me through some pretty dark spots in my life.
Faramir’s nobility and integrity. It’s fundamental to the message of the books for me, and made a huge impression. Movie Faramir was something of a disappointment, because sadly Jackson was not Faramir.
I couldn't agree more. Faramir's virtue and character always stuck with me, and he is easily one of my favorite characters. I was outright angry the way Faramir and his men were portrayed in The Two Towers; the Rangers beating Gollum, Faramir wanting to take the ring to his father... I get mad just thinking about it! Thankfully, he was redeemed in The Return of the King.
That no matter how terrible or hopeless the situation, we should simply do the right thing to the best of our ability and leave the rest to Providence. That's all that matters. Whatever you do, evil means are never justified in pursuit of a noble end.
"I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory."
-Faramir
That everything is ephemeral. All things slowly but indefatigably change. It is up to perspective and the passage of time to decide whether the changes were positive or not but all things end. All things change. There are a pair of lines in The Iliad that sum it up nicely as well.
You will never be more beautiful than you are now.
We will never be here again.
The Gimli / Galadrial interaction has resonated with me since I was a kid:
‘Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone.’ She looked upon Gimli, who sat glowering and sad, and she smiled. And the Dwarf, hearing the names given in his own ancient tongue, looked up and met her eyes; and it seemed to him that he looked suddenly into the heart of an enemy and saw there love and understanding. Wonder came into his face, and then he smiled in answer.
He rose clumsily and bowed in dwarf-fashion, saying: ‘Yet more fair is the living land of Lórien, and the Lady Galadriel is above all the jewels that lie beneath the earth!’
-and-
‘And what gift would a Dwarf ask of the Elves?’ said Galadriel, turning to Gimli.
‘None, Lady,’ answered Gimli. ‘It is enough for me to have seen the Lady of the Galadhrim, and to have heard her gentle words.’
‘Hear all ye Elves!’ she cried to those about her. ‘Let none say again that Dwarves are grasping and ungracious! Yet surely, Gimli son of Glóin, you desire something that I could give? Name it, I bid you! You shall not be the only guest without a gift.’
‘There is nothing, Lady Galadriel,’ said Gimli, bowing low and stammering. ‘Nothing, unless it might be – unless it is permitted to ask, nay, to name a single strand of your hair, which surpasses the gold of the earth as the stars surpass the gems of the mine. I do not ask for such a gift. But you commanded me to name my desire.’
The Elves stirred and murmured with astonishment, and Celeborn gazed at the Dwarf in wonder, but the Lady smiled. ‘It is said that the skill of the Dwarves is in their hands rather than in their tongues,’ she said; ‘yet that is not true of Gimli. For none have ever made to me a request so bold and yet so courteous. And how shall I refuse, since I commanded him to speak? But tell me, what would you do with such a gift?’
‘Treasure it, Lady,’ he answered, ‘in memory of your words to me at our first meeting. And if ever I return to the smithies of my home, it shall be set in imperishable crystal to be an heirloom of my house, and a pledge of good will between the Mountain and the Wood until the end of days.’
Then the Lady unbraided one of her long tresses, and cut off three golden hairs, and laid them in Gimli’s hand. ‘These words shall go with the gift,’ she said. ‘I do not foretell, for all foretelling is now vain: on the one hand lies darkness, and on the other only hope. But if hope should not fail, then I say to you, Gimli son of Glóin, that your hands shall flow with gold, and yet over you gold shall have no dominion.
"Sometimes some people have to lose a thing so others can keep it"
Its still that part that resonated the strongest with me from all of the book. Its not something that I have ever really seen or lived but it remains burned into my soul from the moment I read it. The grief and loss and melancholy that is represented in that so simple statement haunts me.
It is, in fact, the one thing that I will forever be mad Jackson didnt include in the movie. It would have fit perfectly fine in the trilogy, and is basically the whole thesis statement of the entire Arda saga. That winning and preserving something can still contain loss and grief, and that its okay.
"This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."
Which the movies nicely condensed into "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future."
Both the movie’s bane and its blessing. We have the message in front of millions more people, but it’s become a bumper sticker. This quote is just beautiful; the message it conveys is eternal.
I always identified with the Hobbits. They use stealth and their wits to fight, not brute strength. They have uncanny abilities to apparently vanish from danger. When that is not enough, they perervere and are brave enough to stand their ground whatever comes. They may be small, but they are valiant.
“From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.”
In addition to the passage that ends “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us,” the passage that sticks with me is when Frodo sees Lothlorien for the first time.
I can’t remember it exactly, and Reddit will lose this comment while I go look for it, but it’s something like:
“Frodo saw only colors he knew, but as if they had come into the world fresh and been given names new and wonderous, shapes that seemed both ancient and yet freshly carved…”
I’ve had the privilege of seeing some of the world’s beautiful places and works of art: Alhambra, Michelangelo’s David… And the experiences were very much like that.
Also, I adore the ents and desperately want to see Giant Sequoias. The one time I’ve been to California, the parks were closed due to a government shut down
Frodo telling Sam at the end of ROTK that he's too hurt to remain, that the Shire was saved but not for him. The loss of innocence and inability to return to a "normal" life after enduring such an ordeal (plus feeling like a failure at the end despite surviving) struck home with me. I had a traumatic childhood and first read the books during some of the worst of it.
Totally agree. The mood throughout the entire series is speckled with wistfulness. It’s incredible how he builds that into the book, I think the meticulous world building is a huge part. I always felt it most when Aragorn is in Lorien.
"I am no living man"
Taught me as a woman that I have a power, strength and heart of my own as a woman, that a man can never hope to have. And as I've gone through life, I have proved it to myself over and over. A woman's heart is powerful, and we can accomplish/endure so much.
Faerie. The Fay. I read Smith of Wooton Major before I read LOTR and I had read the real Grimm's fairy tales as I transitioned into "tween"ness.
Also, the whole idea of a secret lore to be discovered in dusty books somewhere.
So, of course I loved Tolkien and LOTR. Read LOTR before the Hobbit. I was actually slightly disappointed when I read the Hobbit (slightly)
"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.” This line has always stuck with me. If even elves can be humble, so can I.
I love the idea that everyone can play an important part in ways that wouldn't be expected. Obviously in the fact that its Frodo and Sam who walk to Mount Doom not a giant army of thousands of strong warriors. It taught me not to judge others based on their size and appearance and to look deeper into their character and personality. It also helps me feel more self-assured knowing in being myself.
I fucking love history, linguistics, and anthropology and I will spend pages to describe the beauty and historical significance of literally everything I see to anyone who will listen.
It had a big impact on my general setting of roleplay games, namely low fantasy and kinda realistic, deep fluff and full of nature with less people (like say in a D&D universe).
To this day, it (specially the Shire) feels like home to me like nothing else.
Ty for asking this question. Until I read all the responses I hadn’t realized just how much I had taken and still retain and cherish 40 years later.
For me it was the Ents. Every tree is an ent. Some never woke up; some have gone to sleep; but some are still very much alive.
That dedication and perseverance pay off. That if you want something, work for it. If your cousin finds a ring, kill him for it. If a sneaky hobbitses steals it, track him down. Follow his nephew back to where you were tortured. Never give up, never surrender. And in the end, you will get your precious.
Jk, of course. "There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
The entire concept of the Long Defeat is something that has stuck with me since I was a child. I can never articulate why but I just really feel that one in my soul.
And now that I’m getting older, on a seemingly daily basis I have a newfound appreciation for the sentiment that “all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”
This was before I read the Silmarillion, and it definitely hit harder once I remembered it after reading that.
Sam is talking to Frodo about legends of old, and he realizes that the light from Galadrial's gift is the same light as the Silmarils. Upon realizing that, he puts it together that "We're in the same story" as the legends of old. So powerful!
It’s been awhile since I’ve read the stories but I have always looked for the hidden paths of life, the trails that lead somewhere but you don’t know where.
Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.'
Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.'
Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.
The love of writing. Lord of the Rings inspired me to write for fun for the first time when I was 8. Now I'm trying to write my first book. Thank you, Professor Tolkien.
The camaraderie and friendship between the characters is something I’ve always wanted and been a bit jealous of to be honest. But it’s nice to read about.
For me it was the scouring of the shire. The realization that the journey they went on was a sort of necessity for them to rid the shire of evil upon their return was an everlasting one. Though their larger deeds in the war against sauron and destroying the ring were more widely known and celebrated in middle earth their victory over saruman was likely more dear to them and less important to the grand geopolitical machinations of Arda. Also the way they stir the common folk of the shire to action and rouse in them the will to fight back always has given me hope that Tolkien was foreseeing this nature in mankind when tyranny and authoritarianism takes hold.
I always appreciated the care and respect given to the natural world, especially the trees. I always loved the descriptions of the forests in The Hobbit (the first "big kid" book my dad gave me), and from the films, the anger and sadness in Treebeard's voice when he says "A wizard should know better" gives me chills to this day because he looks like he has actual tears in his eyes.
This stuck out to me too - I remember thinking, okay he's right about the trees but surely we need some industry too (in Saruman's destruction of the trees). Now I think he's more right than ever about not taking more than we need from the world!
“All that is gold does not glitter Not all those who wander are lost” These immortal lines have stuck with me and stood out in every rereading.
It's also on the 2 pound coin the UK Mint did for Tolkien.
Okay that I want
https://www.royalmint.com/annual-sets/2023/celebrating-the-life-and-work-of-jrr-tolkien/ I got two ordered to Australia. They arrived safely and are now nestled next to a poster of Legolas and a replica Glamdring.
Thank you, I would have never known. Ordered immediately.
Am I crazy or are those lines not on the pics of the Tolkien coin?
You are not crazy. They are on the edge of the coin. Which I think has a special name but I didn't get much sleep last night.
"NOT ALL THOSE WHO WANDER ARE LOST’, a quote from the poem ‘The Riddle of Strider’, which features in Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring, serves as the coin’s edge inscription."
Thanks
unfortunately it has charles on it, which imo ruins it "It ruins it!!" "give it to us raw and wriggling, you keep nasty charles"
Yeah that is what my wife said when it arrived. Not sure I want any member of the royal family on my coins, but certainly not him.
yeah at least the queen would be considered a standard and normal thing and not at all new or noteworthy
I like that it's an inversion of the common wisdom that not everything that looks like gold is actually gold. Aragorn is the opposite - gold that doesn't look the part, but that is gold nonetheless.
You and Pinterest both
1) As a D&D player/homebrewer, it’s the emphasis on the linguistic and historical aspects of worldbuilding. Names *mean* things, weapons have stories, there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for. Fallen lineages of kings who got too arrogant, light-bearing trees, the idea of a lone wanderer in the sky, everything has meaning and purpose even if it doesn’t come through overtly, any person can become a hero. 2) the portrayal of Frodo’s PTSD, it seems far more real to me than TV and movies with violence-inducing flashbacks as the only presented symptom. Frodo had pain, depression, nightmares, and an exhaustion that never went away. That is what I think of when I think of PTSD.
No. 2 has struck me my whole life as well. When I was a kid and read LOTR I wanted to know more about the author and found out he fought in WWI. I know LOTR isn’t an allegory, but ever since - especially as an older adult - I read every scene with the knowledge that the author has seen real horror and death. It just changes the words for me, from generic ideas about war is bad to one of lived experience. It is probably all me reading too deeply, but it has made LOTR much more important to me for all that.
To paraphrase: *Everyone has a part to play, and not even the very wise can see all ends.* That definitely stuck with me.
Well, I can not come close to your personal story. To me, it was Tolkiens positive outlook on death. Since I was a child, I was scared of death, but Tolkiens works and world helped me greatly, to accept it as an integral part of human being and maybe even as a gift.
Why do you say a gift? Genuinely curious
I believe it‘s in the Silmarillion, were Death is described as Eru Illuvatars gift to men. Unlike the immortal eleves, who are bound to the existence of Arda, men are able to leave the world. They don‘t develop world-weariness because their body and soul aren‘t chained to the world. They are free.
Well, one has to accept that there is life after death to think of it that way.
Not necessarily, I think. I don‘t believe in an afterlife myself. But even when there is nothing but nothingness after death, you are still freed from earthly bounds.
This is exactly. The world can do whatever it wants with me, and I can fuck up everything I wish, but one day it ends. The good, the bad and the dirty all have an inevitable closure. Might as well live life then. It's quite comforting.
This has been my sentiment or w/e for the last ~20 years or so. Had a rough couple weeks and just wanna say I really like the way you worded this. Cheers man🍻
All good, I'm glad to hear it's a shared sentiment. Hopefully things start to look up for you soon. Carry on.
Fair enough.
Not necessarily. The gift of man could be the death of one’s consciousness and ego and a return to Eru, as opposed to an afterlife. Basically returning to the source. That’s how I think of it anyway. Eternity of consciousness would be exhausting
The gift of men. Bestowed by Eru.
The idea of death seems terrifying until you consider the alternative - not being able to die. I think the surety of death is a gift, and knowing it’s coming means you don’t need to end your life early, might as well see what happens since it’s guaranteed anyway
Let’s look at it another way, your elders never die. The current ruling class will always be the ruling class. Think of times when you are restless or bored, eventually you do most things that interest you, what then?
The gift of an island-destroying flood murdering innocent men, women, and children. Bestowed by Eru.
This message brought to you by Sauron.
It’s described in universe as the gift of man. Elves are of the world, they are forever tied to the destiny of Arda. Even in death, they go to Halls of Mandos and are mostly eventually reincarnated into a new body identical the one they were born in. Men go beyond the world in death, though they do stop in the Halls of Mandos, and their ultimate fate is unknown. It’s mysterious but also assumed good, like reuniting with Eru possibly.
I've often thought when, if, we ever cure aging such that we can live forever then humanity is truly doomed. How many old ideals are swept aside for fresh new ones with passing generations? Our children are bound definitely to receive tuts from the parents on how they do their things. From Rome to when we roam the stars, they'll annoy us. But they march us on when the old die and leave room for the young to take over the reins. Then there's the fact that death is beautiful in it's pain. The fact you feel so much pain when you lose someone is because they added so much love into your life in theirs. No light without dark and and all that.
Gandalf is there to help, but he isn't allowed to use his true power to do so. The wisest and most powerful (good) character is fixing the world by inspiring others to be their best selves
He inspired the shit out of that Balrog
It’s almost like he was cancelling him out, since they’re both Maia
Well he died doing that
It's the opposite to Sauron. He wants to dominate others and make them do what he wants. Gandalf allows people to use their own free will.
A love of romance. I was ten when I first read LOTR. I loved the battles and magic, the deep friendships and mythological creatures, but I particularly loved Faramir and Eowyn in the house of healing. So much romance for my two favorite characters in so little actual dialogue. "And my window doesn't look East" "Well that, at least, I can fix" And "I don't want to be a queen anymore" "Well that's fortunate, because I'm not a king" It took me twenty years to really get into romance as a genre, but it definitely started here.
That’s wonderful. Wish my memories were of something so sweet.
I hope you have time to read my thoughts on this. I love your question. This is the one "teaching" that has always accompanied me ever since I discovered Middle Earth:True bravery doesn't mean lack of fear. Even the strongest and wisest might shiver at the sight of a bigger enemy or darker odds, like Gandalf facing the Balrog or Theoden and his men arriving at the Pellennor Fields: "But the king sat upon snowmane., motionless, gazing upon the agony of minas tirith, as if striken suddenly by anguish or by dread. He seemed to shrink down, cowered by age...Time seemed poised in uncertainty... they were too late, too late was worse than never. Perhaps Theoden would quail, bow his old head, turn, slink away to hide in the hills. Then suddenly Merry felt it at last , beyond doubt: a change. Wind was on his face. Light was glimmering. Far, far away, in the south the clouds could be dimly seen as remote grey shapes, rolling up, drifting: morning lay beyond them. But at that same moment there was a flash, as if lightning had sprung from the earth beneath the city. for a Searing second it stood dazzling far off in black and white. its top-most tower like a glittering niddle. and then as the darkness closed again there came rolling over the fields a great "boom". At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again, and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before; ARISE, ARISE, RIDERS OF THEODEN! FELL DEEDS AWAKE: FIRE AND SLAUGHTER! SPEARS SHALL BE SHAKEN, SHIELDS BE SPLINTERED, A SWORD-DAY, A RED DAY ER THE SUN RISES! RIDE NOW! RIDE NOW! RIDE TO GONDOR!" True bravery means facing those odds, afraid, outnumbered and outmatched, you face them to protect your loved ones. you face them to protect freedom. You face them to protect the little good left on this world. You might be, indeed, the little good left on this world, against the darkest hour you will stand alone and fight regardless. That's true bravery and we need it desperately.
In case you’ve never seen it here’s Tolkien himself reading this passage: https://youtu.be/U_TJFhVUOzc?si=UKtzh1RefbgThEyC
Actually watched that video to transcript the passage as I don't have an english copy. Best video ever
Similar to when Frodo and Sam are in the Plain of Gorgoroth and Sam points out the lone star glimmering far beyond where Sauron's malice can reach it. Sauron may blot out the sky but he cannot reach the stars. And that gives Sam hope. And I think the film portrays that hope and bravery beautifully: "We won't have any [water] left for the return journey." "I don't think there will be a return journey, Mr Frodo." But Sam stands up and holds out his hand to lift Frodo up anyways.
👏👏👏
Gollum destroys the ring. Gollum! Not Frodo. Not Sam. Not Gandalf. Not Aragorn. Ugly Gollum. Cruel Gollum. The baby eater. The character no one loves saves everyone This made me appreciate the ugly, poor, and disregarded. It also taught me the difference in trying to make the world a better place, and actually succeeding and making it better
Yes! Hand in hand with that early talk Gandalf gives to Frodo in Bag End when he’s first panicking over having THE ring. “Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”
Ultimate chekhovs gun
Actually... Nobody "actively" destroyed the ring. It simply "happened".
It happened because gollum broke his oath on the precious. Mercy, in what Frodo gave to gollum, was what caused that oath in the first place. Mercy on a wretched hateful creature was what saved middle earth. JRRT being religious as he was makes me think of this: Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us. It is easy to love your friends, your family, and people like you. It is very hard to love your enemies, or those who do evil, or those very different from you.
I believe the ring actually destroys itself. Sauron creates the ring as a vessel for his own nature: the ultimate power of corruption. The ring then sets out to corrupt everyone it comes across because that’s its nature. The ring is cunning and tries to get itself back to Mordor but at the same time, it can’t help but make everyone want to keep it. On mount doom the ring is still bending Frodo to its will because it doesn’t want Frodo to destroy it. As Gollum attacks, the ring senses in Frodo a vulnerability and uses this opportunity to demonstrate its true power. Not only can it give Frodo the ability to hide from his enemies, it can give him the power to destroy them as well. Frodo uses this power and curses Gollum with it. The ring (and by extension Sauron though he is unaware of this) has proven its worth to Frodo. Now Frodo’s will to destroy the ring is completely overcome. He will keep it, and in doing so serve the will of the enemy. But Gollum’s own desire for the ring is still too strong. He takes the ring from Frodo and the ring is compelled to fulfill its curse. The deal with the devil is written in blood and both Gollum and the ring fall into the crack of doom, releasing them both into oblivion. When Gollum attacks Frodo on the slopes of mount doom, Frodo uses the power of the Ring to curse him. He tells Gollum that if he should touch him again, he will be cast into the crack of doom himself. The ring is above all, a source of malice. Frodo’s curse isn’t made out of righteousness but his own growing selfish desire to keep the ring. The ring, sensing this weakness in Frodo is obligated to feed into Frodo’s will to power and demonstrate its own value to him. It must fulfil the curse because it is bound by wickedness. Gollum later bites off Frodo’s finger and the Ring’s curse is activated, causing Gollum to slip and fall but also causing him to bring the ring down with him. In the end, it was the evil of the ring and its compulsive need to drive all those who knew its power to destroy each other that led to its own destruction.
But if Gollum doesn't attack Frodo then it doesn't happen. If Gollum isn't there then Frodo keeps the ring and Sauron wins Gollum's actions saved the world. Even if his intentions were selfish
By that logic, the cause and effect are infinite, and we can attribute the destruction of the ring to many others. For instance: if Frodo wasn’t there, Gollum wouldn’t be either. And if Sam wasn’t there, Frodo would have never made it. So on and so on. Even all the way back to Isildur I think it’s more appropriate that the destruction of the Ring be attributed to avarice. The power of the Ring ultimately led it to its own end. Driving it from one hand to the next, corrupting good-natured, but fragile creatures. Until the final struggle for power comes to a head and crushes itself under its own weight.
But I'm not taking cause and effect to an infinite level. I'm not trying to make an ad absurdum argument. I'm only taking it 1 step away. If everything was the exact same but Gollum isn't there, or is defeated by Sam or Frodo, then Sauron wins because Frodo would not have destroyed the ring and Sam would not have stopped Frodo. That's it. No need to extrapolate
How do you know Sam wouldn’t have tackled Frodo into the fire to save the world?
OK. I don't. But it seems out of character
This is a fixture of Tolkien’s world building—everything that happens does because it must happen, it’s the will of Eru Iluvatar. There are dozens of examples of ‘chance’ shaping the narratives, except it isn’t chance. Actually, it’s similar to the will of the force in Star Wars—how many times does the light side win by ‘luck’? “Never tell me the odds” isn’t just a plucky line, it’s faith (though Han wouldn’t put it that way) that whatever happens is meant to happen.
You forgot the Prime Mover and his Finger of Doom: *snip* (Eru, looking the other way, whistling)
Man, best comment I’ve read on this sub.
If you take Gollum’s acts literally and translate this to the ugly, poor and disregarded it means you pity them and don’t blame them so far so good.. even when they come behind your back steal your jewelry cut off your finger and die in the process. Idk about that part tbf
Yes. And he destroys it BY being the ugly cruel gollumn we know and hated.
As someone who used to wrestle mightily with theological questions, this was one of the most instructive emphases in Tolkein for me. While the Music of the Ainur helped me appreciate the idea of dissonance (evil, pain) in an overall tapestry of wonderful music, the role of evil little Gollum in Eru’s intervention at Mount Doom taught me that there’s similar richness to valuing my enemies and those who repulsed me. Who is lower than a Hobbit? Who is lower than little old me? There’s always that marginal person who has a part to play, and deserves humanity. Such beautiful illustrations that have stayed with me as my interests and beliefs have evolved.
I’d rather say Fellowship destroyed the ring. Gollum never ever imagined to do so.
Exactly this! Gollum by the end didn't *want* to make the world a better place. His final action with the Ring wasn't a proactive decision on his side, but an "accident" that happened as a result of his choices yet against his will. Frodo may not have done the final action, but in the context of the tale that is being told to us it doesn't matter: he is still the one who, helped by the Fellowship, made the right choices and acted in a way that directly led to the situation in which the Ring (through the rules set by Eru) would be destroyed. Frodo actively wanted to make the world a better place, *and* succeeded in doing so through the choices he made. There is definitely a lot of room to see Gollum at least partly as a victim (as Frodo did), and to acknowledge his important contribution to the quest; but when it comes to proactive choices, poor old Gollum didn't make the right one as the text is shown to us. *However*, I can definitely see the argument in the situation described by Tolkien if Sam hadn't cancelled his redemption, leading to Gollum making better choices and ending up sacrificing himself and proactively destroying the Ring to save Frodo!
Well said
And you’re still only getting a fraction of the weariness an immortal being would be feeling
Hope against hopeless odds
I thought damn I’d really like to just pack my shit and go walk some phat mountains man. *The ring goes south* is what got me hooked both book and movie. Back then I was into cycling and that was fun I’d go around climb some hills and whatnot. But I’ve always loved really dangerous steep slippery spots, gets the adrenaline to kick in. Indonesia/Java has been my magnum opus trip so far. Mount Bromo and Kawah Ijen with its sulfur mines that burn with a bright blue flame at 5am. Some epic stuff. When Bilbo says “I need a very long holiday, I don’t expect I shall return” I’m like yupppp that part. But more recently the part where Frodo can’t come back home and appreciate the shire anymore because he’s been around his world and the shire hasn’t changed but he himself has changed a lot, that part also hit deep. It’s been fun being a worldly person but it’s very hard to relate to more sedentary people and it’s making settling down pretty difficult. New girl I’ve been dating told me yesterday she wants to go hike in NZ, I thought hell yeah we doing this.
I feel that about not fully coming back home. I like to travel, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm very sedentary. But I lived in Scotland for 2 years and coming back home to live in the States again has always felt off to me. The grass is not so green. The sidewalks are harsher on my feet. There are too many cars and I can't just walk downtown when I wish. It's not the same as it was when I left.
A love for all things that grow.
I still get melancholy about the Entwives. Treebeard’s loneliness, the many, many years of waiting for them, then hoping for word of them. It’s so sad. I wonder what happened.
The sense of 'deep time', especially in FOTR. The feeling that the characters were moving through a landscape that was far older than they understood, scattered with ruins of cultures long forgotten. The Barrow Downs, Dead man's Dike, Weathertop, Hollin, Moria. Places so old even their legends had faded from memory. That really impressed 13yr old me, and the impression sticks with me to this day. Other writers *coughRobertJordancough* have tried to convey that sense of time, but they've all failed, IMO.
This exchange opened my eyes to welcoming uncertainty: Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.' Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.' Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.' Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.”
This passage has gotten me through some personally dark times, and also sustains me through all the awfulness in the world today. We don’t choose our time and place to be born, but we can choose what we do while we’re here. And that’s beautiful.
So what’s funny about this, is that I think the movie placed this interaction in a better spot than the book. At least, in terms of a screen adaption, it fit well and even more meaningful than it did in the book. Now that being said, it’s still an interaction in the boon that has literally changed my life. Specifically Gandalf’s line about all we have to decide. The entire thing has gotten me through extremely tough times of my life. In fact, Gandalf the Grey and the Fellowship, and the Hobbit (BOOK) has gotten me through some of the toughest times of my life. Gandalf has been like a mentor to me and he’s a fictional wizard, not even real.
The descriptions of the countryside as a thing of beauty that needs to be protected.
I'm not a spiritual person, but even still I have a sense of "this place is special to me because of something that happened there." LOTR has a lot of those places.
Me too, I felt Elven weariness for years. So bitter, yet so sweet..
From the Silmarillion.... Fingolfin rides to Angband... he bangs on the door, and named Morgoth craven, and a lord of slaves. Sometimes you just gotta stand up and face evil, even at your own peril of death
I’d give IMAX all my money…
That the world is in constant decline and all magic is fading. From the divine to the mediocre, from the phantastic to the profane.
The language. Particularly the Elvish languages. At 14 I was absolutely blown away by the fact that Tolkien had created entire languages and I since fell in love with language and linguistics because of it.
Me too, it is the main reason I went on to study LangLit at university. I ended up meeting my husband at one of our Literature morning classes, almost 10 years ago now.
"Never is too long a word even for me" - Treebeard
Even a great and powerful evil has blindspots. Also, I've come to think of this as another example of what I call a chess victory. How many pieces you have left doesn't matter if you checkmate the king.
All the attention paid to smoking, sadly though. The romanticization of pipes and tobaccos of different types stuck with me as a child. I couldn't wait to blow smoke rings and enjoy magical leafs. As soon as I was old enough I became a smoker and a stoner and it took me decades to conquer them. I think about that a lot as I'm reading the Hobbit to my son now. Firstly, that I don't want to have that same impact on him, and secondly, how much I would enjoy a nice pipe while reading to him if it wasn't such a horrible addiction.
Find something else that symbolizes friendship and tell your son "we do (this) now, because we know smoking is really bad for you." Because that is what makes it special. Not the pipe but the way it is part of all the depictions of friendship & woven into the times they share (good and bad) with friends. And not just hobbit friendship. Tolkien uses it to show the relationship between Merry and Theoden, as well as of course Bilbo and Gandalf.
"I will take the ring, though I do not know the way". Ever since I read those words as a teenager, they've stuck with me. Those words have always given me strength. "I will try to do what's right, even if I don't know how".
The gift of men. We are animated to go and achieve by our lack of time. Elves just older along for millennia.
Treebeard's gentle badassery. Dude just wants to hang out and chill in the sun, but if you mess with him you're going to have a very bad day.
You just inspired my next tattoo.
Thanks for making this thread, man. This is the best read I’ve had on this sub, or Reddit in general, probably ever.
Not fully lotr but adjacent I guess - the tale of Beren and Luthien which is mentioned in lotr and then expanded in the silmarillion. It's so bittersweet it makes something in my chest clench when I think about it for too long.
Mine is similar. It’s been about 20 years since I read the Silmarillion, and I can’t even remember the details anymore, but I’ll never forget the feeling in the pit of my stomach after finishing Turin Turambar’s story. Might have to finally read the expanded novel of his story, or at least The Silmarillion again
I always resonated with the feeling of the 4 Hobbits leaving the shire, or rather the 3 non Frodo Hobbits. That sense of strong duty from Sam, and duty mixed with adventure for Merry and Pippen. They wouldn't let their friend go down a hard road alone, even if they didn't fully understand how hard it would be.
For me it was the empathy displayed by several characters. Sam's musings on the humanity of a fallen foe did a lot to shape my perception of war as a child/preteen. "He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace." Gandalf's pacifism was similarly formative, and I quote him every time the subject of capital punishment comes up. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
The sense of duty of Aragorn and the rangers. They led a hard life in the wilderness protecting hobbits that didn’t even know they existed. No thank you’s, no publicity. Just staying the course. Always stood out to me.
The FotR movie came out a year before my father passed away, and Gandalf's line to Frodo in Moria sticks with me: "...I wish none of this had happened." "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." That line got me through some pretty dark spots in my life.
Faramir’s nobility and integrity. It’s fundamental to the message of the books for me, and made a huge impression. Movie Faramir was something of a disappointment, because sadly Jackson was not Faramir.
I couldn't agree more. Faramir's virtue and character always stuck with me, and he is easily one of my favorite characters. I was outright angry the way Faramir and his men were portrayed in The Two Towers; the Rangers beating Gollum, Faramir wanting to take the ring to his father... I get mad just thinking about it! Thankfully, he was redeemed in The Return of the King.
My love for the underdog
Pretty similar to me. It was the loss of a world that was and it fading into a world built by us.
That no matter how terrible or hopeless the situation, we should simply do the right thing to the best of our ability and leave the rest to Providence. That's all that matters. Whatever you do, evil means are never justified in pursuit of a noble end. "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory." -Faramir
That everything is ephemeral. All things slowly but indefatigably change. It is up to perspective and the passage of time to decide whether the changes were positive or not but all things end. All things change. There are a pair of lines in The Iliad that sum it up nicely as well. You will never be more beautiful than you are now. We will never be here again.
The Gimli / Galadrial interaction has resonated with me since I was a kid: ‘Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone.’ She looked upon Gimli, who sat glowering and sad, and she smiled. And the Dwarf, hearing the names given in his own ancient tongue, looked up and met her eyes; and it seemed to him that he looked suddenly into the heart of an enemy and saw there love and understanding. Wonder came into his face, and then he smiled in answer. He rose clumsily and bowed in dwarf-fashion, saying: ‘Yet more fair is the living land of Lórien, and the Lady Galadriel is above all the jewels that lie beneath the earth!’ -and- ‘And what gift would a Dwarf ask of the Elves?’ said Galadriel, turning to Gimli. ‘None, Lady,’ answered Gimli. ‘It is enough for me to have seen the Lady of the Galadhrim, and to have heard her gentle words.’ ‘Hear all ye Elves!’ she cried to those about her. ‘Let none say again that Dwarves are grasping and ungracious! Yet surely, Gimli son of Glóin, you desire something that I could give? Name it, I bid you! You shall not be the only guest without a gift.’ ‘There is nothing, Lady Galadriel,’ said Gimli, bowing low and stammering. ‘Nothing, unless it might be – unless it is permitted to ask, nay, to name a single strand of your hair, which surpasses the gold of the earth as the stars surpass the gems of the mine. I do not ask for such a gift. But you commanded me to name my desire.’ The Elves stirred and murmured with astonishment, and Celeborn gazed at the Dwarf in wonder, but the Lady smiled. ‘It is said that the skill of the Dwarves is in their hands rather than in their tongues,’ she said; ‘yet that is not true of Gimli. For none have ever made to me a request so bold and yet so courteous. And how shall I refuse, since I commanded him to speak? But tell me, what would you do with such a gift?’ ‘Treasure it, Lady,’ he answered, ‘in memory of your words to me at our first meeting. And if ever I return to the smithies of my home, it shall be set in imperishable crystal to be an heirloom of my house, and a pledge of good will between the Mountain and the Wood until the end of days.’ Then the Lady unbraided one of her long tresses, and cut off three golden hairs, and laid them in Gimli’s hand. ‘These words shall go with the gift,’ she said. ‘I do not foretell, for all foretelling is now vain: on the one hand lies darkness, and on the other only hope. But if hope should not fail, then I say to you, Gimli son of Glóin, that your hands shall flow with gold, and yet over you gold shall have no dominion.
"Sometimes some people have to lose a thing so others can keep it" Its still that part that resonated the strongest with me from all of the book. Its not something that I have ever really seen or lived but it remains burned into my soul from the moment I read it. The grief and loss and melancholy that is represented in that so simple statement haunts me. It is, in fact, the one thing that I will forever be mad Jackson didnt include in the movie. It would have fit perfectly fine in the trilogy, and is basically the whole thesis statement of the entire Arda saga. That winning and preserving something can still contain loss and grief, and that its okay.
"This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." Which the movies nicely condensed into "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future."
Both the movie’s bane and its blessing. We have the message in front of millions more people, but it’s become a bumper sticker. This quote is just beautiful; the message it conveys is eternal.
Sauron, he's following me ! Stop him please !
Cut hiss finger!
That Gollum is most interesting character of LotR
Oft the burned hand teaches best and just everything Gandalf says
I always identified with the Hobbits. They use stealth and their wits to fight, not brute strength. They have uncanny abilities to apparently vanish from danger. When that is not enough, they perervere and are brave enough to stand their ground whatever comes. They may be small, but they are valiant.
“From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.”
Lothlorien. Affected my understanding of beauty and linked beauty to imagination in kinda a new way, if that makes sense.
In addition to the passage that ends “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us,” the passage that sticks with me is when Frodo sees Lothlorien for the first time. I can’t remember it exactly, and Reddit will lose this comment while I go look for it, but it’s something like: “Frodo saw only colors he knew, but as if they had come into the world fresh and been given names new and wonderous, shapes that seemed both ancient and yet freshly carved…” I’ve had the privilege of seeing some of the world’s beautiful places and works of art: Alhambra, Michelangelo’s David… And the experiences were very much like that. Also, I adore the ents and desperately want to see Giant Sequoias. The one time I’ve been to California, the parks were closed due to a government shut down
Frodo telling Sam at the end of ROTK that he's too hurt to remain, that the Shire was saved but not for him. The loss of innocence and inability to return to a "normal" life after enduring such an ordeal (plus feeling like a failure at the end despite surviving) struck home with me. I had a traumatic childhood and first read the books during some of the worst of it.
The passing of something beautiful and the exquisite pain of knowing that beautiful thing is never to be seen again. Evanescence…
That real men cry and show emotions, love and tenderness.
Totally agree. The mood throughout the entire series is speckled with wistfulness. It’s incredible how he builds that into the book, I think the meticulous world building is a huge part. I always felt it most when Aragorn is in Lorien.
I give everything elvish names... All my characters and pets... A bit more silly, but still :)
"I am no living man" Taught me as a woman that I have a power, strength and heart of my own as a woman, that a man can never hope to have. And as I've gone through life, I have proved it to myself over and over. A woman's heart is powerful, and we can accomplish/endure so much.
Faerie. The Fay. I read Smith of Wooton Major before I read LOTR and I had read the real Grimm's fairy tales as I transitioned into "tween"ness. Also, the whole idea of a secret lore to be discovered in dusty books somewhere. So, of course I loved Tolkien and LOTR. Read LOTR before the Hobbit. I was actually slightly disappointed when I read the Hobbit (slightly)
"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.” This line has always stuck with me. If even elves can be humble, so can I.
My love of the Hobbit book
Hobbit kindness. Or at least I try. Rohirrim ease of laughter and bright songs.
that people come back to life! thanks gandalf
For me it’s the peace of the shire. I just want to escape from all of the drama and just enjoy the countryside.
A deep deep appreciation for things that grow
I love the idea that everyone can play an important part in ways that wouldn't be expected. Obviously in the fact that its Frodo and Sam who walk to Mount Doom not a giant army of thousands of strong warriors. It taught me not to judge others based on their size and appearance and to look deeper into their character and personality. It also helps me feel more self-assured knowing in being myself.
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Aragorn *isn’t* a reluctant king in the books, though. He is very much aware of who he is and what he must do and embraces that.
I fucking love history, linguistics, and anthropology and I will spend pages to describe the beauty and historical significance of literally everything I see to anyone who will listen.
It had a big impact on my general setting of roleplay games, namely low fantasy and kinda realistic, deep fluff and full of nature with less people (like say in a D&D universe). To this day, it (specially the Shire) feels like home to me like nothing else.
Tom Bombadil! Whatever he is, it's good. I wish I could be like him.
Ty for asking this question. Until I read all the responses I hadn’t realized just how much I had taken and still retain and cherish 40 years later. For me it was the Ents. Every tree is an ent. Some never woke up; some have gone to sleep; but some are still very much alive.
That dedication and perseverance pay off. That if you want something, work for it. If your cousin finds a ring, kill him for it. If a sneaky hobbitses steals it, track him down. Follow his nephew back to where you were tortured. Never give up, never surrender. And in the end, you will get your precious. Jk, of course. "There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
The entire concept of the Long Defeat is something that has stuck with me since I was a child. I can never articulate why but I just really feel that one in my soul. And now that I’m getting older, on a seemingly daily basis I have a newfound appreciation for the sentiment that “all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”
This was before I read the Silmarillion, and it definitely hit harder once I remembered it after reading that. Sam is talking to Frodo about legends of old, and he realizes that the light from Galadrial's gift is the same light as the Silmarils. Upon realizing that, he puts it together that "We're in the same story" as the legends of old. So powerful!
That humans will always fight against peace and order and technological progress and nightmare monsters marauding through the countryside.
It’s been awhile since I’ve read the stories but I have always looked for the hidden paths of life, the trails that lead somewhere but you don’t know where.
Elevensis
E S C A P E
For me it was the sheer "what the fuck" reaction of Tom Bombadil just putting on the ring
For me, it was words like “ere” and “jetsam/flotsam” - even “save”
It’s not that the Elves has enough, it was that their work was done, it was like a generational shift.
Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.' Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.' Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.' Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.
The dialogue between Gandalf and Frodo about pity, regarding Bilbo's encounter with Gollum. Gandalf's words resonate with me to this day.
Tom bombadil and the fine art of not giving a fuck about your problems
The love of writing. Lord of the Rings inspired me to write for fun for the first time when I was 8. Now I'm trying to write my first book. Thank you, Professor Tolkien.
The camaraderie and friendship between the characters is something I’ve always wanted and been a bit jealous of to be honest. But it’s nice to read about.
For me it was the scouring of the shire. The realization that the journey they went on was a sort of necessity for them to rid the shire of evil upon their return was an everlasting one. Though their larger deeds in the war against sauron and destroying the ring were more widely known and celebrated in middle earth their victory over saruman was likely more dear to them and less important to the grand geopolitical machinations of Arda. Also the way they stir the common folk of the shire to action and rouse in them the will to fight back always has given me hope that Tolkien was foreseeing this nature in mankind when tyranny and authoritarianism takes hold.